I once spoke with a CCI tech on this very topic. I was told that their specs showed small pistol and rifle primers being identical; same cup material and thickness, the same primer compound, and the same amount of said compound. Of course, this probably varies depending on the primer manufacture.
CCi told me that their standard small rifle primers were identical to their small pistol MAGNUM primers. Standard small pistol Primers have less compound than the small rifle/pistol magnum. small rifle magnum primers have more compound than both. I don’t think it’s safe to say that all cci small pistol and rifle primers are the same.
after measuring a ton of small rifle and pistol primer cups they're the same .015" thick brass other brands are the same as far as I've seen cci 5.56 primers are the same too
True. All primer sheet metal across the board is .0150 thickness. And small rifle is the same as small pistol magnum. Now large rifle primers are .006 taller than large pistol.
Correction to my post about what CCI told me. I just measured my different CCI primers are there are absolutely differences in primer sheet metal thickness. Sorry, but I have to trust my instruments. From .01161 with SP to .01262 with LR
Back in the mid 70’s I had a Dakota 41 Mag revolver. The hammer mounted firing pin was penetrating the primers. On my loading bench I used rifle primers and the penetrating problem was fixed.
I’ve been reloading for only about 9 years now. I’m probably going to catch a lot of crap for this comment, but has anyone actually measured the thickness difference between small pistol and small rifle primers? I did and they measured the exact same thickness. I wouldn’t recommend this in normal conditions, but with the primer shortage I had to give it a try. Me and a friend loaded small pistol primers into some .223 loads. I brought out my lab radar just to check consistency. We worked up our loads from less than the recommended starting load using CFE223 and worked our way up to our standard load of 27 grains. To my surprise, no split or flattened primers. No slam fires either. They held consistent at around 3000 FPS from a 20” barrel. They worked beautifully. I’m not recommending everyone go out and do this but keep in mind, if the shortage lasts too much longer, you gotta do what’s necessary. And before the safety nazi’s chime in, I’m aware that this is not best practice
Many manufactures will tell you that their small pistol magnum and small rifle primers are the same thing but it varies. I was told that CCI are the same.
Doing the same thing in 3 files. There is a .003 difference between pistol and rifle primes in depth so have to check rifle firing pin strike. Works great in my rifles
Really good info. I know a lot of folks are desperate for reloading components and ammo so they can shoot. Of course, desperation is a potential recipe for disaster in the case of reloading. Great video fellas!
Wear eye protection, if the gun blows up it doesn't really matter (as long as you don't get hurt) guns are useless without ammo anyway. If mine goes tough luck, I'm going to die of old age owning a gun without any ammo. I Live in a land locked part of Alaska where almost everything is legal but nothing is available.
I have been making my own primers for 8 years now i use real btw primer compound. all the stuff is easy to get. also on a side note when i say make i mean make from scratch, i bought used surplus stamp presses and made dies. all the cup material for primers is 0.015 thick across all primers. i only make 2 primers large and small for every thing. for example large pistol mag and large pistol non mag are the same height cups both at .119". where a problem can crop up is in example large pistol is .119" height and large rifle is .125 so a over all thickness difference of .006 thou. this is where cases come into play i have some where they don't work but for the most part i don't have any issues. some cases have to have the primer pocket depth cut .006 deeper so the primer is not proud of the case. a little extra time but when there done there done. i cut them with a little end mill on a drill with a home made drill stop and a jig i built.
Wow, you make your own primers with dies too? I just finished manufacturing my own primer anvil stamping punches and dies today. Where do you get your punch materials from? Edit : I am a member of a group chat of a couple of machinists if you are interested in talking about this in further depth
@@amycoffman2092 you have to make it. Go look at aardvarkreloading he has a primer reloading course updated June of last year. that rabbit hole got me started a long time ago. i use h-48 compound. and no it is not measurably corrosive. For anyone that cleans their stuff on a regular basis. And with anything else like this make small batches at a time, for immediate use. Don't store big batches of it.
@@festerallday I completely understand, but desperate people might cram what they can and let it fly. The safety of all, is our primary concern. As responsible loaders.
The one case where I DO routinely use small pistol primers in a rifle case is .22 Hornet. For ALL "book" loads. Pressure is low enough for SP cups and accuracy improves noticeably compared to same loads with an SR. You can even find this suggestion in some re loading manuals. There, adding to the murk!
I was thinking about doing the same with my 17 hornet. I am thinking that small powder charge might benefit from a less energetic primer. I do wonder however if it would ignite H110/W296?
@@jesusisalive3227 My go to Hornet load is 10gr. W296, .224 45gr. Winchester HP Hornet bullet and a CCI small pistol primer, load in neck sized only cases. Shoots MOA from CZ 527.
The manual is there for a reason, the safety for self and others in shooting sports. Timely video given I have not been able to find small pistol primers for sale.
Yep. Super Vel tested 9mm cartridges loaded with pistol and rifle primers and they saw no huge differences in the pressure gauge or with velocity. It depends on the cartridge as well. I mainly load 22 Hornet, and both pistol and rifle primers are appropriate with just about all the powders used. Currently, I have a Lil'gun load that uses Fed 205M srp, and an H110 load that is in the last legs of testing between using Fed 100M spp and Fed 200M spm.
@@wisewhiterabbit Same if using pistol magnum primers used in rifle as they seat .003 shallower just have to check each rifle if firing pin will strike primers hard enough to ignite. Works in 3 rifles and no telltale pressure or velocity change
Thank you for this video, had this same question very recently. I am getting low on large rifle primers (cci #200) and recently purchased new brass for my .243, and changed from 100gr BTSP to a 90gr eldx. I wanted to once fire my brass before working up a new load for this new round with new bullets. Not wanting to use up a pack of my cci 200, and having a few packs of large pistol primers, I thought this may be a solution. Using a starting charge of my favorite powder and the old 100grain bullets with the new brass and found the large pistol primers fit, but were recessed about .002. I fired then immediately inspected the case. Seemed to work just fine. Caution is the name of the game when changing components.
327 Federal Magnum is recommended to be loaded with small rifle primers. But then again, that cartridge has an unusually high pressure amongst handgun cartridges. Pretty much a modern 30 carbine. Easier to load since it is not tapered...
I have loaded Shotgun Pistol and Rifle for better than 40 years! I have used every primer interchange possible and the only problem I have ever had is occasionally using a pistol primer in a rifle case it will seat to deep and you get a mis fire but even that is rare. Back before the load data was all lawyered up I would back off a bit and work them up but nowadays the load data that is published in not even close to max loads. If you are going to work a load up go a quarter grain at a time and as soon as you see bulged primers back it off 10% and you should be just fine. (that is only in modern firearms in good condition) The only primers I have completely blown out was in 22-250 shooting magnum pistol primers at above max data. Stay with mid range loads and you will be just fine. Sure as hell beats throwing a rock since primers are like gold now days!
The problem is you can’t get primers and as you said pressures don’t change that much. People are reusing primers out of necessity which is sad because Canada has plenty
@@dannie3117 I managed to snag 1,000 small pistol primers from BassProShops website in January 6. Since then, the listings for all their primers and all their powder say, "This product is not available online." Also, I haven't seen small rifle primers anywhere since August.
Thanx.. I had that question until last week...I thought I was out of small pistol primers...until I found about 4K hidden away and forgotten...niw I can reload the approximately 6 lbs of nickel-plated 9mm brass and approximately 7 lbs if .357 brass...also long forgotten...and found when I rediscovered those small pistol primers...
This is the year I spend all my time on the muzzle loader range. It's cheaper and I can still get supplies for not ridiculous prices. Plus antique flintlocks are awesome to shoot not just to own.
@@jerryking3208 I've just recently gotten into air rifles. I just have a .22 one but my friend let me shoot his .357 rifle and I fell in love with it. He also has a .50 caliber one he has hunted bear with but it was like a 4,000 dollar air rifle or some such.
I use LP primers in rifle cartridges for cast bullet shooting, others do too. We are talking 20k to 30k pressure, works fine. The .010" difference in height has not been a problem in any rifle I have tried this in.
I haven't used rifle to pistol primers however magnum to standard without issue at all, no velocity changes or pressure signs. I stumbled onto this since Remington and Winchester have labeled their primers for standard or magnum loads. Certainly need to back off the powder charge and verify the load when doing so but I have had no ill effects.
You are obviously not a reloader. I have done a lot of primer switching just as my own test bed. I have every type of primer available in abundance. A smart reloader will start at a low recommended charge and chrono their way up.
@@shaverlocal ...well the 400-500 rounds I loaded today would say otherwise, but I certainly don’t know everything, and maybe there’s something you know that’s worth learning?
@@pastordoogie8438 believe it was your comment "be dumb first" that caught my attention. Most of us that like to consider ourselves serious reloaders as that is my pastime,look at you as a novice.
@@shaverlocal I reload handgun calibers on a progressive press mainly for ammo shortages and lower costs. Did I correctly imagine you as more of a rifle caliber reloader? In our brief exchange you do strike me as the kind of reloader who would experiment, but not someone who would blame someone else if something bad happened-which was more the intent of my comment, but sorry if I came off that way.
@@pastordoogie8438 I reload 8 calibers on 4 presses. yea, One is a Dillon, an 8 station Lyman, An RCBS A2, and an arber press for my Wilson dies. I have three Dillon powder drops + Two Neil Jones measures (look it up) a Redding BR3 +a pistol insert and a couple of grand of misc equipment. I have loaded 11,000 tounds of 9mm , 2500 of 45ACP, and several thousand rounds of 223 in the last 8-9 month's. It is what I do. I was in a bad motorcycle wreck that put me in the hospital for months and I have been reloading again since I can walk. I have loaded thousands of rounds without 1 hickup.
A guy gave me 1000 rem 6.5 primers saying he couldn’t load the for his ar. After researching this particular primer, it looks like they make it for rifles like the 22 hornet. I have been wanting to load them for 9 mm but was not real sure about it. How did they work out for you?
I have used large mag pistol primers for 45 colt for years. But only in new manufactured firearms. Always lower the powder charge and work your way back up to the original load. Slowly.
Reading the manufacturers specifications can clear up a lot of things in many cases. For example S&B recommends the use of their Small Pistol Magnum primers for .22 Hornet, .222 Rem. and 5,6×50 R, which are small rifle cartridges.
Great information and advice. One thing you didn't address that is very relevant these days is interchangeability of regular and magnum primers. Based on another video I saw comparing actual pressures, they are quite interchangeable and the pressure difference was extremely small if any at all and the bullet speeds were almost identical as well. Of course, your advice still stands, if you use magnum primers instead of regular, you should go back to the minimum powder load and work your way back up just to be on the safe side.
I had a good load in a 300winmag once that I tried every primer I had. I used cci 250/200, br2, cci no.34, fed.210match, fed.215m, rem.9½ and 9½m. Of all of them the cci no.34 was the hottest. Makes sense as it is a military primer. It was good for about 30fps over the hottest of the others. Some of the magnum primers were not as hot as some of the standard primers. Don't have that data any more. Wish I still did. If you're new to reloading the best advice I can give is follow the book to the letter. As you gain experience you begin to research a little outside the lines as you learn the warning signs to look for. I had an old Speer manual that was 6gr hotter on a max load in my winmag with 4831 Than all of the newer manuals so there seems to be a safety factor built in. But if you're new to it, follow the book.
I have had zero issues using CCI 400 small rifle primers in 9mm 115 grain FMJ competition loads in my Glock 17 and 34. I reduced the charges and worked up from a low base. With SP primers in such short supply this workaround has served me well. If you choose this path start with a low charge and be careful! BTW, I loaded primers only into empty cases to check whether my lighter springs would do the job. Fortunately, they do.
Super Vel has a video out showing the interchangeability with small pistol, small rifle and small pistol magnum primers. They showed pressure test and chronograph of the same load rotating the primers with no significant differences. They too suggested working up the load when substituting.
a rifle primer in a pistol load gets a weak hit because of the low firingpin energy. the firing flame depends on the strike of the surface and force .. in small cases like 9 mm you can get much higher pressures if the rifle primer is going of like in a rifle. test the primer in a speer plastic case and bullet .there you see the amount of mixture and force of a primer. v0 it on a chrony
Did my own personal experiment when primers weren’t available. I’ve seen some people test a full load. Personally, I only did primer and empty shell for testing. If it ignited, then I worked on a load. Was a little concerned with pressure and so I did shoot some reduced loads before discovering there’s little to no change in fps.
I'm happy to see people addressing these conversations in the shooting world. You guys are good to take the time to go over these things for us new guys. Also Brownells is great..especially since I live so close to them it only takes a day or two for my packages to arrive...very nice..haha
Very timely advice because I want to load 5.56 but I only have small pistol primers. I've wondered about using them. The web advice has been the same as you have provided here. I sure hope to find some small rifle primers one of these days. Bullets are available and powder is if you keep looking but I've had no success sourcing primers. Hope you get some soon!!!
Ye rather be safe. 5.56 has some serious pressure. You wouldn’t want to risk a primer failing. Good luck. Plenty of SRP here in South Africa. You want CCI or Federal? I’ll send you some 😂 Just send us some again when things are back to normal there! All the best!
1Eagle Don't do it. As stated in the video description, "Rifle primers have thicker cups, so they can handle the pressure of pistol cartridges, but pistol primer cups are not built to handle the higher pressures of rifle cartridges."
1Eagle ...... depends largely on your powder charge..... if you are loading subsonic for instance ..... but I am not a professional so-and-so..... I am just an old man
I've been testing Small Pistol primers in .223 Remington cartridges. Currently, I've been testing with the little Nosler "Varmageddon" Ballistic Tip 40gr bullets. According to Hodgdon's Reloading website, IMR 4895 powder at the Starting Load weight of 24.9 grains produces 35,200psi. That pressure is on par with mid-range .357SIG pistol cartridges and only 4% higher than my .40 Smiff & Wessun loads, both of which use Small Pistol primers. I made 20 cartridges with a powder charge at -15% of the Starting Load, 20 more at -10%, then -5% and finally 20 at the Starting Load. All of them fired, although I did have to adjust my gas block initially. (They fired but didn't cycle the action on that gas block setting.) Under the magnifying glass, everything looks fine. With that being said, I'm specifically wanting to make cartridges for training on targets within 40 yards, so I don't need the same velocity as someone trying to shoot 500+ yards.
This was surprisingly informative given how short a video it was. It pretty much answered my question about interchangeability. Small rifle primers are generally good in pistol rounds as long as the striker is powerful enough to deal with the thicker cup, but not the other way around as you may get a slam fire using a thinner pistol primer in a rifle cartridge. It's why the firing pin in an AR-9 is spring loaded, to prevent the firing pin from igniting the primer when it goes into battery. But the AR-15 has no need of a firing pin spring because the small rifle primer walls are thicker. It's good to know this stuff. Thanks for the video.
2:55 primers are hard to get anyway so might as well use the right ones???? I thought the point of using different primers was because you cant get the right ones?!
I have used Remington large rifle primers in 10mm and 45acp since the early 90’s. I am almost out of components so I will be working a new load when the time comes.
i'v had dropped primers on the floor and workbench that I had not clue whether they were rifle or pistol, and a tube of small primers that wasn't marked, so I just used them on 9mm. Never had a problem.
I have been reloading for just about fifty years now, and I'd like to think I've gotten pretty good at it over the decades. My very first reloading manual (Lyman 44th Edition - 1967) does not tell me that exchanging "rifle" and "pistol" primers is an OK thing, so I never did. I always figured that there was a reason for the difference, and probably a good one.
As far as I understand it, rifle primers often have a tighter fit and a thicker cup, but dimensionally they often are super close to pistol. You can load rifle primers in pistol rounds, if the dimensions are right and your hammer/striker hits hard enough, but you definitely shouldn't load pistol primers in rifle rounds.
That question was never an issue until the pistol primers started disappearing. That's why everyone started pondering this question. I have been able to shoot for over a year because lack if ammo, primers. But I have thousands of small rifle primers. My wife and i used to shoot 500 rounds a month of 9mm before covid. It's a real downer, we just don't have ammo.
The reloading manuals that I have used, all of them strongly discurage using rifle primers in pistol cartridges. They also state that pistol primers ARE NOT to be used in rifle cartridges. One should heed the information presented with great care and respect.
Of course you wouldn't use a small pistol primer in a rifle cartridge, your just asking for trouble but lots of pistol calibers recommend small rifle primers instead of small pistol, depends on the pressure range of the caliber. 327 Fed Mag, 357, top 9mm, Super 38, 9x23Win, 357 SIG just to name a few with some loads and most manufactures will admit that small pistol magnum primers contain the same amount of compound as small rifle primers with the cups being the only difference, CCI comes to mind. Some will tell you, like Winchester, that it's OK to use SR in place of SP. Higher pressure loads for T/C Contender/Encore and Ruger handguns have their own sections in a lot of manuals and most loads use SR primers. I have been substituting SR for SP for 2 years now because I have a source for them and I run through 2k rounds a year on average. So far, no problems except for FTF in a S&W 642 and a Ruger GP100 I had lite springs in, switching to a 2lb heavier spring fixed that. No problems with stock handguns and velocity's have been the same with no pressure signs. And again, when making any changes in loads always work up charges slowly to ensure safety.
I saw an old gunsmith due to scarcity of 9mm and 45 ACP ammo cut down a .308 to produce a 45 round, he lessened the charge and just handloaded it and it worked
Also, I clearly saw that the original rifle primer was still present at that time, essentially the old gunsmith was making 45 ACP ammo from 7.62mm rounds, making use of a cut down and reamed case and a reduced original rifle powder, the only thing he supplied was a cast lead bullet
I’ve been forced to use SRP in my 357Mag (Rossi Lever Action) as no SPMP are available in my country. I started with lower loads. Works fine. I tested Remington SRP and found them to be too soft. Even had a punctured primer. CCI SRP worked best (better than Federal SRP) with Viht N-110 and H100.
I have used small mag pistol primers in 223 with starting loads without any problems with the primers or with the case. This was with a bolt action savage 111 with a very strong receiver and it seemed to work well. I DON'T think I would try it with regular small pistol primers. I never tried it on an AR . I did with a starting load in a solid receiver to see if I could do it .It worked in a pinch but if you can get the small rifle primers I would stick with them. I tried to make sure it was as safe as possible.
I tested a G19 and a Ruger LC9S with starting loads and Wincehster and CCI small rifle primers prior to working up. Guns set off the primers no problem, and cycled normally. As stated, whenever you change a component you MUST work your load up again and make sure it is safe in your firearm. In my case they performed identically to their pistol counterparts during workup, your results may vary.
I was just looking this up. Supposedly CCI small rifle primers work as small pistol magnum. Those are the only interchangeable primers that I’ve heard of, use at your own risk.
Speer makes plastic training bullets for revolvers that use only a primer and plastic case. Great for garage plinking. Still capable of injuries. I expanded on this. Use hot glue to make bullets instead of lead. Use whatever primer fits the hole in the case of my choosing. The larger the case, and longer the barrel, the less power the round has after leaving the barrel. Of course none cycle semiauto. But it’s fun plinking and was good use for primers that weren’t stored properly. 209 primers have nice oomph in a muzzle loader using the glue bullets or crayola erasers without a powder charge. Caps only tend to leave the bullet stuck in the barrel using the hot glue or wax bullets. Not a bad activity I’ve you have a nice location, but can’t get to the range. Great for plinking empty soda cans. Most only dent the can, but some penetrate. Still capable of damaging your drywall. I did try one out of a Glock 35 at the range. I didn’t feel a breeze, but at 15yards I was able to watch the bullet curve away and miss the entire target by 4 feet 🤪
There are a few situations where I use large pistol primers in rifle cartridges, and this is in large calibre black powder calibres such as .577 Snider, .577/.450 Martini Henry and 11mm Werder. I cannot get the Werder to fire reliably using rifle primers as the strike is too weak and making a replacement spring is not an option. I also tend to use a magnum primer to ensure the flame gets through the black powder charge. I would agree however that this is not something you should be doing without a very good reason and a clear understanding of the issues.
Due to the shortage of small pistol primers. I have used small rifle and small pistol magnum primers in my 9mm loads. No noticeable change in pressure or velocity.
The cup diameter and thickness are the only differences between primers. Multiple tests have shown no difference in pressures regardless of load. The priming compound is the same. There is really no danger in interchanging small rifle and small pistol primers, or large rifle and large pistol primers. In theory, it may affect reliability in some pistols when using thicker rifle primers; but I’ve never experienced any issues.
Used small pistol magnum primers in .223, no issues at all. .454 Casull and .357 maximum cartridges call for small rifle primers. Got some Wolf small rifle magnum primers, work fine in my AR, but 20-30 percent misfires in my Savage .223 bolt gun.
I loaded some cci standard pistol primers on a 9x19 and plenty of them with no issues. Once for some bizarre reason found small pistol magnum primers also from cci for half the price compared to standard pistol primers. Loaded them, on the crony the speeds are negligible almost identical. However when you manually load a primed case into the chamber with only a primer, no powder, no bullet, the magnum primers certainly has a bigger bang compared to the standard ones. m2c
I shoot 32-20(32wcf) in a pistol. Speer load data shows to use a small rifle primer on their 32-20 rifle page and a small pistol primer on their pistol page. All other load data is exactly the same for both. So, in this case, I believe either could be used.
I've been using small rifle primers in small pistol rounds for my lever action rifle due to the current shortage. Zero issues. I experimented with large rifle primers in large pistol cartridges for lever action guns. Some makes seated flush - good to go. Some were slightly proud. We're talking barely perceptable. I shot those in tube mag lever actions using lead flat nose hollow points just fine. Wouldn't recommend it with regular flat nose bullets as there's a slim chance the negligible recoil of a 45 Volt round could set off a chain fire in the mag, I suppose.
I'll sometimes use large pistol in rifle cartridges. Only when using light cast bullet loads though. Works well. And CCI says that their small pistol magnum & their small rifle primers are the same, no cup differences.
I load LP primers in my 1874 Sharps .45-70 with a charge of black powder with great result except the primers are extremely dented. I use LR primers for my smokeless loads in the same rifle, those primer fair much better.
For light loads in something like 30-30 or 35 remington I would think about using large pistol primers in place of large rifle primers if I had no LRP. First I need to be sure that primers are not going to be pierced by the rifle firing pin and make sure the pressures produced are pistol pressure. 35 Remington is supposed to have very low pressures according to spec for some reason. I guess it has to do with the ancient Remington pump actions made in that chambering rather than anything being wrong with the 336. I would never use a pistol primer in a full 5.56 loading. But might consider it with a weaker hammer spring in subsonic 300 black out loads.
I tried small pistol primers in my .300 blackout loads. I haven't had issues with my subs, did a few in supersonic with 150gr. I'm using shooters world(lovex) sbr socom and blackout powders, haven't found anything too concerning.....yet.
Thanks guys I had a recent mix up with a couple dillon primer tubes loaded 200 rounds of 9mm with small rifle primers luckily I'm running a stock striker spring
Yeah, I mistook large pistol primers for large rifle primers when reloading some 7x57 Mauser loads. This was a mistake due to not fully reading the labels on the primer container; all I saw was "Large." I mostly got away with it, but I had a few of the primers punctured by the firing pin. I was very lucky. Thankfully the gases didn't shoot back into my face. The punctured primers clued me into checking the component packaging when I got home from the range, and lo and behold, I had mixed the primers up. I count myself lucky... and chastened. Don't do this!
At the start of this primer shortage I had a box of small rifle primers left over when I ran out of small pistol primers. I thought I'd give them a try and loaded up a some in 9mm to try. I found because the small rifle primers have a thicker cup I had an unacceptable amount of miss fires and gave up on that idea. I'll use them in small rifle cases instead.
I used cut down .454 cases for heavy .45 Long Colt in a M1894 Winchester rifle. I used rifle primers, even though the loads called for Large Pistol primers. That was because my 1873 Peacemaker did not have a strong enough hammer spring to fire the primer. So, if I screwed up and put one of those loads in my Colt, I didn't damage the gun or me by firing something rated for a Ruger Blackhawk or the Winchester but probably twice the PSI as a Colt was rated for. My Ruger's would also fire those primers, btw. Coil over leaf spring, I suppose.
I agree stay with what the primer was designed for. Unfortunately a company called Super Vel" put out a video that promotes the use of primer interchangeability. Enter at your own risk.
They don't promote it, they just demonstrate that it can be done if you work the load properly. As a 22 hornet loader, we've understood this for a while that they can swapped just fine as long as small adjustments in the load are made.
I have 9mm ar rifle and ar pistols that have no problem taking small rifle primers in the ammo, just make sure there seated properly and the loads are worked up from the bottom like any other load, Do NOT use them as a substitute without knowing the difference, or working up the load.
Been using SR primers in 9mm, .38spl and .40sw for years with no issues and never changed the charge. Would never use SP in a rifle cartridge though unless it was "do or die"
@@pacman10182 Rifle primers are .003 thicker in depth than pistol primers according to my micrometer. That is the reason a weak spring may not fire in a rifle with pistol primers
Speer's reloading manual specifically says to use small pistol primers in the 22 Hornet. I do so and have had no problems. Apparently small rifle primers are hotter than they used to be and are a bit much for such a small case.
I have in my hand right now, a box of S&B 4,4 SP boxer on which is written: "For rifle, pistol or revolver cartidges." Earlier today i chrono'd a batch of CCI 550 small pistol magnum vs a batch loaded identiacally with the exception of using a Vihtavuori small pistol primer with no "magnum" designation. The spread factored between 126 and 135 with no discernable difference between the batches. In the comments there are testimonials for CCI using the same specs for pistol and rifle. I'd say as far as small primers are concerned this is clearly not a myth and that you can easily interchange with no consequence.
You can successfully reused primers, but I wouldn't do it more than once. The cup is liable to get work hardened where the firing pin hits it and it will eventually blow out. I've always saved my old primer cups and anvils specifically for the kinds of situations were in now.
@@haroldhenderson2824 you can get them on like ebay some dollars stores carry the diamond brand. also might want to look up prime all, or look up h48. the last 2 are primer compounds so more reliable. 8 years of using h48 only 2 didn't go bang cause i put the anvil in upside down. early on now i have machines do it so don't have that anymore.
@@shawnparrish1999 just like a cartridge. Organize it, take it apart, clean it, and put it back together. Some use kids cap gun primers some use priming compounds.
I load and shoot 357 mag. Sidearm, 4",SS, 5 shot, rifle, 22 inch barrel, single shot , break action, 3x9x40 scope. I load for both but different loadings for each. Pistol normal loadings from Hornady manual. SPP's used. For the rifle I do use SRP with a reduction of 12%- 15%. Sample load for the rifle using the Small Rifle Primers is, 158 grain XTP, 14 gns of Little Gun. This load is accurate, at 50 yards, 3 shot groups, all holes touching dead center of the bulls eye.
I was expecting full derp and received credible info. Correct, if it seats and you work up a load go for it, but don't ever just interchange them. Impressed with your open and honest response.
Safety third. I’ve swapped many primers just to check what would happen if shtf. Good luck so far. Figured I should do it while the hospitals are still open:)
Yep. Good thing Elmer Keith wasn't deterred by "murkiness" like these guys, or we wouldn't have the 44 Magnum. This whole video screams "our lawyers said it was bad".
@@BloopTube then they should either have stuck to facts and done a real analysis like SuperVel, or they should have said nothing at all. This video is pointless as there's a million internet forum threads on this topic. This brings nothing new to the table.
@@jimvac77 I've not been reloading or handloading for long at all. A family member bought me a Lee Challenger set and a couple of shell holders, and lent me his Hornady book. It was a nice gift and I'm grateful for it. Well, I then needed to buy the dies, digital scales, caliper, case conditioning tools, bullets, casings, powder, primers---you know the deal! The PROBLEM, however, is that thus far, I have not seen ANY Small Rifle primers for sale at all. So after spending 4 months with a collection of HUNDREDS of 40- and 53- and 55- and 69-grain bullets, HUNDREDS of cleaned and trimmed casings, several POUNDS of various powders, I started asking, "What will happen if I use the Small Pistol primers since I have them?" The answers online were overwhelmingly, "Don't do that!" And when pressed further---"Seriously, why not? What will happen?"---the answers ranged from 'the Small primers will get pushed out of the pocket and you'll blow your face off' to 'your firing pin will punch a hole straight through the primer and you'll blow your face off.' I tested the second claim by actually loading USED Small Pistol primers into several .223 casings, then seating FMJ bullets, putting these 'dum-dums' in a magazine and cycling them through, pulling the trigger on each one. They all looked fine afterwards. As far as primers getting pushed out, I also figured they ought the be held in the pocket fairly well by the breech face. When I began actually testing loads, I used a magnifying (at the range!) to look for any movement of the primer. Nothing. So far, in my experimentarion with lightened .223 Remington loads using Small Pistol primers, I've seen nothing to indicate an impending catastrophe. I understand why TH-cam folks preach, "No No...you must ALWAYS stick precisely to the published material!" I get it. But sometimes it's fun, and necessary, to ask, "What if?" and begin testing things for yourself.
@@Cautionary_Tale_Harris so if you’re talking about reloading.223 with small pistol primers, this is considered one of the more dangerous situations because of chamber pressures. Pistol primers are usually made with thinner or weaker thickness metal so a lighter striking hammer can ignite them. I have had success with 300bo with pistol primers but they have been lighter loads. Conditions are different with fired rounds than with reloaded pistol primers in a dummy round. I personally wouldn’t worry to much but I could never suggested someone else do what I think you’re proposing. But hey, I’m not your mom:) have fun, STAY SAFE! Wear protection, support our 2A rights and always stay frosty!
I found Large Pistol primers to be useful in the sort of reduced loads that the old Lyman cast bullet handbook listed for 38-55. (10 gr of Unique for instance under a 246 gr cast projectile....)That WAS with a suitably lightened main spring. I SUSPECT such primers might also work just fine in the sort of loads of TRAIL BOSS recommended for use in obsolete cartridges, (I use a 90% full case of TB in an old 8x56R Steyr Bolt action - gives about 1350 fps) but have not tried it. I would be a little concerned that the firing pin strike would be too "hard" for the thinner primer cup. Noone wants pierced primers.
Honestly guy's if proper reloading practices are followed there is no problem IMHO. Small Rifle and Small Pistol primers are the exact same size but Small Rifle do have thicker cups. I shoot a lot of 9x23 Winchester in a 1911 and use small Rifle primers. Now with the shortage I have been substituting small rifle primers in my handgun ammo for 9mm, 38 Special and 357 Mag without a problem, I had a bunch of SR. I just backed off my loads and worked up carefully and I don't use them in maximum pressure loads, practice ammo only. I did notice greater velocity spread similar to Small Pistol Magnum primers but generally the velocity was within 1%-2% and you need to check that your handgun will ignite the SR primers reliably.
I watched a guy blow up his new M! Garand. He had a few large pistol primers left in his Dillon and didn't see why he couldn't use them in his rifle. What he didn't realize is that the M1 has a floating firing pin. When he inserted a round directly into the chamber (also a no no), and released the retracted bolt, the round went off due to not being fully seated under the extractor and fully chambered. Luckily nobody was seriously injured. He sent the rifle back to Springfield Armory and they would not attempt a repair.
I would never use riffle primers for pistol loads but I do use a small pistol primers for the 22 hornet it has a better even burn when loading non lead bullets thanks for the info
I don't reload ammunition at this time. I didn't know there was different primers from pistols to rifles. I had heard about large and small primers and thought it was a caliber thing. Like rifles and 44 magnum, or 357 magnum and 308 rifles used the large primers and 223, 9mm and 25 acp or 380 acp would use the small primers. Thanks for setting me right. I knew there was a difference in powders. Pistol powders and rifle powders. A friend who talks about reloading with me said that get at least 2 preferably 3 loading manuals and consult all 3 before you start reloading. Until you learn more to stick to the specifics listed in those. There's also a big difference in why you reloading for. Are you just loading range ammo or are you trying to dial in the most accurate round for long range competition.
I once spoke with a CCI tech on this very topic. I was told that their specs showed small pistol and rifle primers being identical; same cup material and thickness, the same primer compound, and the same amount of said compound. Of course, this probably varies depending on the primer manufacture.
CCi told me that their standard small rifle primers were identical to their small pistol MAGNUM primers. Standard small pistol
Primers have less compound than the small rifle/pistol magnum. small rifle magnum primers have more compound than both. I don’t think it’s safe to say that all cci small pistol and rifle primers are the same.
after measuring a ton of small rifle and pistol primer cups
they're the same .015" thick brass
other brands are the same as far as I've seen
cci 5.56 primers are the same too
@@spyderxtra777 That's correct. Forgot to mention that only applies to their small pistol magnum and small rifle primers.
True. All primer sheet metal across the board is .0150 thickness. And small rifle is the same as small pistol magnum. Now large rifle primers are .006 taller than large pistol.
Correction to my post about what CCI told me. I just measured my different CCI primers are there are absolutely differences in primer sheet metal thickness. Sorry, but I have to trust my instruments. From .01161 with SP to .01262 with LR
Lol. "Murkey" is a great way to describe this. For new fellas coming into loading I tell them to stick with only the primers specified
Back in the mid 70’s I had a Dakota 41 Mag revolver. The hammer mounted firing pin was penetrating the primers. On my loading bench I used rifle primers and the penetrating problem was fixed.
Remington used to label their small primers as suitable for pistol or rifle, I have examples of such.
I would love to see them! Do you have a photo by chance?
Klem Kadidlehopper I found an old box of primers the other day that said that.
@@CalebSavant I have a picture, can't figure out how to post it here. Try this: facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3828513243837734&set=a.243806402308454
Red Skelton
@@farmerwayne1404
saw that too....sure miss his show....always at the end he said, "good night and God bless."
Personally I'm going back to Matchlock.
I'm getting the flintlock ready.
Personally I'm working on a Captain Kirk special for that day a super being drops me on a planet with Gorn.
@@phprofYT lol.
I still have my wrist rocket in a drawer...
@vettelover2009 not in my realm but maybe try misting the exposed side with silicon lube.
Really appreciate these short info packed shorts. Thank you.
I’ve been reloading for only about 9 years now. I’m probably going to catch a lot of crap for this comment, but has anyone actually measured the thickness difference between small pistol and small rifle primers? I did and they measured the exact same thickness.
I wouldn’t recommend this in normal conditions, but with the primer shortage I had to give it a try. Me and a friend loaded small pistol primers into some .223 loads. I brought out my lab radar just to check consistency. We worked up our loads from less than the recommended starting load using CFE223 and worked our way up to our standard load of 27 grains.
To my surprise, no split or flattened primers. No slam fires either. They held consistent at around 3000 FPS from a 20” barrel. They worked beautifully. I’m not recommending everyone go out and do this but keep in mind, if the shortage lasts too much longer, you gotta do what’s necessary.
And before the safety nazi’s chime in, I’m aware that this is not best practice
Many manufactures will tell you that their small pistol magnum and small rifle primers are the same thing but it varies. I was told that CCI are the same.
Doing the same thing in 3 files. There is a .003 difference between pistol and rifle primes in depth so have to check rifle firing pin strike. Works great in my rifles
Really good info. I know a lot of folks are desperate for reloading components and ammo so they can shoot. Of course, desperation is a potential recipe for disaster in the case of reloading. Great video fellas!
Desperation makes getting laid sooo much easier.🍆🍑🤸😖😩🤤😞
Wear eye protection, if the gun blows up it doesn't really matter (as long as you don't get hurt) guns are useless without ammo anyway. If mine goes tough luck, I'm going to die of old age owning a gun without any ammo. I Live in a land locked part of Alaska where almost everything is legal but nothing is available.
I have been making my own primers for 8 years now i use real btw primer compound. all the stuff is easy to get. also on a side note when i say make i mean make from scratch, i bought used surplus stamp presses and made dies. all the cup material for primers is 0.015 thick across all primers. i only make 2 primers large and small for every thing. for example large pistol mag and large pistol non mag are the same height cups both at .119". where a problem can crop up is in example large pistol is .119" height and large rifle is .125 so a over all thickness difference of .006 thou. this is where cases come into play i have some where they don't work but for the most part i don't have any issues. some cases have to have the primer pocket depth cut .006 deeper so the primer is not proud of the case. a little extra time but when there done there done. i cut them with a little end mill on a drill with a home made drill stop and a jig i built.
Wow, you make your own primers with dies too? I just finished manufacturing my own primer anvil stamping punches and dies today. Where do you get your punch materials from?
Edit : I am a member of a group chat of a couple of machinists if you are interested in talking about this in further depth
I have been reloading for 40 years but after reading your comment on primers you sir ARE a reloaded. Hats off to you. Talk about getting into it@
@@scottgorman7166 with that current situation we should start making our own powder soon
May I ask where you can get the compound, I've tried the stuff you get from the 22 reloaded and it's too dirty.
@@amycoffman2092 you have to make it. Go look at aardvarkreloading he has a primer reloading course updated June of last year.
that rabbit hole got me started a long time ago. i use h-48 compound. and no it is not measurably corrosive. For anyone that cleans their stuff on a regular basis. And with anything else like this make small batches at a time, for immediate use. Don't store big batches of it.
If you can find them, stick to the load data.
People put up vids pressure testing the different types. The ONLY difference is in cup thickness to help contain higher pressures of the powder.
@@festerallday I completely understand, but desperate people might cram what they can and let it fly. The safety of all, is our primary concern. As responsible loaders.
Well you Mr thomasloks are completely correct. Ughhhh responsibilities.
Exactly...wishy washy answers
The one case where I DO routinely use small pistol primers in a rifle case is .22 Hornet. For ALL "book" loads.
Pressure is low enough for SP cups and accuracy improves noticeably compared to same loads with an SR.
You can even find this suggestion in some re loading manuals. There, adding to the murk!
I was thinking about doing the same with my 17 hornet. I am thinking that small powder charge might benefit from a less energetic primer. I do wonder however if it would ignite H110/W296?
@@jesusisalive3227
My go to Hornet load is 10gr. W296, .224 45gr. Winchester HP Hornet bullet and a CCI small pistol primer, load in neck sized only cases. Shoots MOA from CZ 527.
The manual is there for a reason, the safety for self and others in shooting sports. Timely video given I have not been able to find small pistol primers for sale.
know a place that says they're getting some 9mm primers soon, and they recently got 9mm projectiles - keep an eye out
Tell that to all the USPSA shooters who have been loading 9mm and 38 Super with rifle primers for years.
@@jimvac77 Keeping it really simple, do those USPSA shooters use small rifle primers when they load 9mm? I'm asking because I honestly don't know.
@@dexm2010 Yes, they do. They're a requirement for those who load 9mm Major.
@@jimvac77 Thank you sir!
So pretty much "you can, but our lawyers say don't"
Yep. Super Vel tested 9mm cartridges loaded with pistol and rifle primers and they saw no huge differences in the pressure gauge or with velocity. It depends on the cartridge as well.
I mainly load 22 Hornet, and both pistol and rifle primers are appropriate with just about all the powders used. Currently, I have a Lil'gun load that uses Fed 205M srp, and an H110 load that is in the last legs of testing between using Fed 100M spp and Fed 200M spm.
You can, but the graybeards say not to or you can blow yourself up. Even though you won't.
Yep, pay attention, and rifle/magnum primer cups are mildly harder to get a good primer strike.
For loads in calibers like, say, .22 Hornet and 300blk which utilize magnum pistol powders in many loads, a magnum pistol primer is a solid choice.
@@wisewhiterabbit Same if using pistol magnum primers used in rifle as they seat .003 shallower just have to check each rifle if firing pin will strike primers hard enough to ignite. Works in 3 rifles and no telltale pressure or velocity change
You two always have the best answers and don’t take all day long to give the right answer
Thank you for this video, had this same question very recently. I am getting low on large rifle primers (cci #200) and recently purchased new brass for my .243, and changed from 100gr BTSP to a 90gr eldx. I wanted to once fire my brass before working up a new load for this new round with new bullets. Not wanting to use up a pack of my cci 200, and having a few packs of large pistol primers, I thought this may be a solution. Using a starting charge of my favorite powder and the old 100grain bullets with the new brass and found the large pistol primers fit, but were recessed about .002. I fired then immediately inspected the case. Seemed to work just fine. Caution is the name of the game when changing components.
Yeah, the large pistol magnum primers seem to have a thicker cup and work pretty well so far.
327 Federal Magnum is recommended to be loaded with small rifle primers. But then again, that cartridge has an unusually high pressure amongst handgun cartridges. Pretty much a modern 30 carbine. Easier to load since it is not tapered...
I have loaded Shotgun Pistol and Rifle for better than 40 years! I have used every primer interchange possible and the only problem I have ever had is occasionally using a pistol primer in a rifle case it will seat to deep and you get a mis fire but even that is rare. Back before the load data was all lawyered up I would back off a bit and work them up but nowadays the load data that is published in not even close to max loads.
If you are going to work a load up go a quarter grain at a time and as soon as you see bulged primers back it off 10% and you should be just fine. (that is only in modern firearms in good condition)
The only primers I have completely blown out was in 22-250 shooting magnum pistol primers at above max data.
Stay with mid range loads and you will be just fine. Sure as hell beats throwing a rock since primers are like gold now days!
The problem is you can’t get primers and as you said pressures don’t change that much. People are reusing primers out of necessity which is sad because Canada has plenty
@@rubenpicon9541 I wonder if they'll drop'm off by a tree near the border .. lol
Should ship ours back we won’t have anything to use them in at this rate
Locally in Central Oregon there hasn't been any rifle powder for months. And lately even handgun powder isn't available.
@@lapinebob I feel your pain. I am running low on everything except casings and there is nothing in the stores here in Florida
@@dannie3117 I managed to snag 1,000 small pistol primers from BassProShops website in January 6.
Since then, the listings for all their primers and all their powder say, "This product is not available online."
Also, I haven't seen small rifle primers anywhere since August.
Fun fact cci have the same spec for sr and spm. They have officially said that before. So they can be interchanged.
Like you can find primers anywhere right now.
I found 1k small rifle primers a few months ago. Took a lot of effort
Thanx.. I had that question until last week...I thought I was out of small pistol primers...until I found about 4K hidden away and forgotten...niw I can reload the approximately 6 lbs of nickel-plated 9mm brass and approximately 7 lbs if .357 brass...also long forgotten...and found when I rediscovered those small pistol primers...
This is the year I spend all my time on the muzzle loader range. It's cheaper and I can still get supplies for not ridiculous prices. Plus antique flintlocks are awesome to shoot not just to own.
Agree. I’ve even gone to shooting high power PCP air rifles. A lot of fun for not much money when it comes to ammo.
@@jerryking3208 Same here, I love that my Texan can shoot the same .358 bullets I feed my SP101 and Big Boy.
@@jerryking3208 I've just recently gotten into air rifles. I just have a .22 one but my friend let me shoot his .357 rifle and I fell in love with it. He also has a .50 caliber one he has hunted bear with but it was like a 4,000 dollar air rifle or some such.
I use LP primers in rifle cartridges for cast bullet shooting, others do too. We are talking 20k to 30k pressure, works fine. The .010" difference in height has not been a problem in any rifle I have tried this in.
I haven't used rifle to pistol primers however magnum to standard without issue at all, no velocity changes or pressure signs. I stumbled onto this since Remington and Winchester have labeled their primers for standard or magnum loads. Certainly need to back off the powder charge and verify the load when doing so but I have had no ill effects.
Really honest video-very refreshing in a culture of “be dumb first and sue somebody second.”
You are obviously not a reloader. I have done a lot of primer switching just as my own test bed. I have every type of primer available in abundance. A smart reloader will start at a low recommended charge and chrono their way up.
@@shaverlocal ...well the 400-500 rounds I loaded today would say otherwise, but I certainly don’t know everything, and maybe there’s something you know that’s worth learning?
@@pastordoogie8438 believe it was your comment "be dumb first" that caught my attention. Most of us that like to consider ourselves serious reloaders as that is my pastime,look at you as a novice.
@@shaverlocal I reload handgun calibers on a progressive press mainly for ammo shortages and lower costs.
Did I correctly imagine you as more of a rifle caliber reloader?
In our brief exchange you do strike me as the kind of reloader who would experiment, but not someone who would blame someone else if something bad happened-which was more the intent of my comment, but sorry if I came off that way.
@@pastordoogie8438 I reload 8 calibers on 4 presses. yea, One is a Dillon, an 8 station Lyman, An RCBS A2, and an arber press for my Wilson dies. I have three Dillon powder drops + Two Neil Jones measures (look it up) a Redding BR3 +a pistol insert and a couple of grand of misc equipment. I have loaded 11,000 tounds of 9mm , 2500 of 45ACP, and several thousand rounds of 223 in the last 8-9 month's. It is what I do. I was in a bad motorcycle wreck that put me in the hospital for months and I have been reloading again since I can walk. I have loaded thousands of rounds without 1 hickup.
Good to hear I can finally put my Remington 6.5 primers to use in some pistol loads.
A guy gave me 1000 rem 6.5 primers saying he couldn’t load the for his ar. After researching this particular primer, it looks like they make it for rifles like the 22 hornet. I have been wanting to load them for 9 mm but was not real sure about it. How did they work out for you?
I could not get small pistol primers, switched to small rifle as these were all I could get, no issues whatsoever.
Yes...there are some substitutions that can be dangerous. Pistol primers in rifle rounds for example, unless they are for very low velocity loads.
*low pressure. A low velocity round can still be high pressure
I have used small pistol magnum primers for 233. I developed the load with those primers- did not substitute into an existing SR load.
What difference did it make in powder charge? Did you end up using more or less?
Like you say, I have used Small Rifle primers in loading 9mm. However, that is the only example I have personally tried and can vouch for.
I have used large mag pistol primers for 45 colt for years.
But only in new manufactured firearms. Always lower the powder charge and work your way back up to the original load. Slowly.
have u ever used LMP on 45acp?
Reading the manufacturers specifications can clear up a lot of things in many cases. For example S&B recommends the use of their Small Pistol Magnum primers for .22 Hornet, .222 Rem. and 5,6×50 R, which are small rifle cartridges.
Great information and advice. One thing you didn't address that is very relevant these days is interchangeability of regular and magnum primers. Based on another video I saw comparing actual pressures, they are quite interchangeable and the pressure difference was extremely small if any at all and the bullet speeds were almost identical as well. Of course, your advice still stands, if you use magnum primers instead of regular, you should go back to the minimum powder load and work your way back up just to be on the safe side.
I had a good load in a 300winmag once that I tried every primer I had. I used cci 250/200, br2, cci no.34, fed.210match, fed.215m, rem.9½ and 9½m. Of all of them the cci no.34 was the hottest. Makes sense as it is a military primer. It was good for about 30fps over the hottest of the others. Some of the magnum primers were not as hot as some of the standard primers. Don't have that data any more. Wish I still did.
If you're new to reloading the best advice I can give is follow the book to the letter. As you gain experience you begin to research a little outside the lines as you learn the warning signs to look for. I had an old Speer manual that was 6gr hotter on a max load in my winmag with 4831 Than all of the newer manuals so there seems to be a safety factor built in. But if you're new to it, follow the book.
I have had zero issues using CCI 400 small rifle primers in 9mm 115 grain FMJ competition loads in my Glock 17 and 34. I reduced the charges and worked up from a low base. With SP primers in such short supply this workaround has served me well. If you choose this path start with a low charge and be careful! BTW, I loaded primers only into empty cases to check whether my lighter springs would do the job. Fortunately, they do.
What did the charge adjustment ended up being?
I never did an A/B comparison. Just started low and worked up. @@OnePointLander
Super Vel has a video out showing the interchangeability with small pistol, small rifle and small pistol magnum primers. They showed pressure test and chronograph of the same load rotating the primers with no significant differences. They too suggested working up the load when substituting.
a rifle primer in a pistol load gets a weak hit because of the low firingpin energy. the firing flame depends on the strike of the surface and force .. in small cases like 9 mm you can get much higher pressures if the rifle primer is going of like in a rifle. test the primer in a speer plastic case and bullet .there you see the amount of mixture and force of a primer. v0 it on a chrony
Did my own personal experiment when primers weren’t available. I’ve seen some people test a full load. Personally, I only did primer and empty shell for testing. If it ignited, then I worked on a load. Was a little concerned with pressure and so I did shoot some reduced loads before discovering there’s little to no change in fps.
I'm happy to see people addressing these conversations in the shooting world. You guys are good to take the time to go over these things for us new guys. Also Brownells is great..especially since I live so close to them it only takes a day or two for my packages to arrive...very nice..haha
Very timely advice because I want to load 5.56 but I only have small pistol primers. I've wondered about using them. The web advice has been the same as you have provided here. I sure hope to find some small rifle primers one of these days. Bullets are available and powder is if you keep looking but I've had no success sourcing primers. Hope you get some soon!!!
looking like a place I know is going to be getting 9mm primers (they have HP projects atm) soon - I don't load or know anyone who does though : |
Ye rather be safe. 5.56 has some serious pressure. You wouldn’t want to risk a primer failing. Good luck. Plenty of SRP here in South Africa. You want CCI or Federal? I’ll send you some 😂 Just send us some again when things are back to normal there! All the best!
1Eagle Don't do it. As stated in the video description, "Rifle primers have thicker cups, so they can handle the pressure of pistol cartridges, but pistol primer cups are not built to handle the higher pressures of rifle cartridges."
1Eagle ...... depends largely on your powder charge..... if you are loading subsonic for instance ..... but I am not a professional so-and-so..... I am just an old man
I've been testing Small Pistol primers in .223 Remington cartridges.
Currently, I've been testing with the little Nosler "Varmageddon" Ballistic Tip 40gr bullets.
According to Hodgdon's Reloading website, IMR 4895 powder at the Starting Load weight of 24.9 grains produces 35,200psi. That pressure is on par with mid-range .357SIG pistol cartridges and only 4% higher than my .40 Smiff & Wessun loads, both of which use Small Pistol primers.
I made 20 cartridges with a powder charge at -15% of the Starting Load, 20 more at -10%, then -5% and finally 20 at the Starting Load. All of them fired, although I did have to adjust my gas block initially. (They fired but didn't cycle the action on that gas block setting.)
Under the magnifying glass, everything looks fine. With that being said, I'm specifically wanting to make cartridges for training on targets within 40 yards, so I don't need the same velocity as someone trying to shoot 500+ yards.
This was surprisingly informative given how short a video it was. It pretty much answered my question about interchangeability. Small rifle primers are generally good in pistol rounds as long as the striker is powerful enough to deal with the thicker cup, but not the other way around as you may get a slam fire using a thinner pistol primer in a rifle cartridge. It's why the firing pin in an AR-9 is spring loaded, to prevent the firing pin from igniting the primer when it goes into battery. But the AR-15 has no need of a firing pin spring because the small rifle primer walls are thicker. It's good to know this stuff. Thanks for the video.
Nonsense. You will never get slamfire just because you changed primers unless there is something wrong with a gun.
2:55 primers are hard to get anyway so might as well use the right ones???? I thought the point of using different primers was because you cant get the right ones?!
That’s what I’m thinking.
I have used Remington large rifle primers in 10mm and 45acp since the early 90’s. I am almost out of components so I will be working a new load when the time comes.
i'v had dropped primers on the floor and workbench that I had not clue whether they were rifle or pistol, and a tube of small primers that wasn't marked, so I just used them on 9mm. Never had a problem.
FWI, I use small rifle primers in 357 magnum loads for my lever action.
But these are loaded with rifle powder & only used in said rifle
WTH is FYI?
I have been reloading for just about fifty years now, and I'd like to think I've gotten pretty good at it over the decades. My very first reloading manual (Lyman 44th Edition - 1967) does not tell me that exchanging "rifle" and "pistol" primers is an OK thing, so I never did. I always figured that there was a reason for the difference, and probably a good one.
As far as I understand it, rifle primers often have a tighter fit and a thicker cup, but dimensionally they often are super close to pistol. You can load rifle primers in pistol rounds, if the dimensions are right and your hammer/striker hits hard enough, but you definitely shouldn't load pistol primers in rifle rounds.
That question was never an issue until the pistol primers started disappearing. That's why everyone started pondering this question. I have been able to shoot for over a year because lack if ammo, primers. But I have thousands of small rifle primers. My wife and i used to shoot 500 rounds a month of 9mm before covid. It's a real downer, we just don't have ammo.
Some small primers say "for rifle or pistol" on the box.
The reloading manuals that I have used, all of them strongly discurage using rifle primers in pistol cartridges. They also state that pistol primers ARE NOT to be used in rifle cartridges. One should heed the information presented with great care and respect.
Of course you wouldn't use a small pistol primer in a rifle cartridge, your just asking for trouble but lots of pistol calibers recommend small rifle primers instead of small pistol, depends on the pressure range of the caliber. 327 Fed Mag, 357, top 9mm, Super 38, 9x23Win, 357 SIG just to name a few with some loads and most manufactures will admit that small pistol magnum primers contain the same amount of compound as small rifle primers with the cups being the only difference, CCI comes to mind. Some will tell you, like Winchester, that it's OK to use SR in place of SP. Higher pressure loads for T/C Contender/Encore and Ruger handguns have their own sections in a lot of manuals and most loads use SR primers. I have been substituting SR for SP for 2 years now because I have a source for them and I run through 2k rounds a year on average. So far, no problems except for FTF in a S&W 642 and a Ruger GP100 I had lite springs in, switching to a 2lb heavier spring fixed that. No problems with stock handguns and velocity's have been the same with no pressure signs. And again, when making any changes in loads always work up charges slowly to ensure safety.
I saw an old gunsmith due to scarcity of 9mm and 45 ACP ammo cut down a .308 to produce a 45 round, he lessened the charge and just handloaded it and it worked
@vettelover2009 Going deep with a tapered reamer, maybe?
@vettelover2009 well I saw him carefully reamed out the interior of the case just enough for a cast lead to be seated
Also, I clearly saw that the original rifle primer was still present at that time, essentially the old gunsmith was making 45 ACP ammo from 7.62mm rounds, making use of a cut down and reamed case and a reduced original rifle powder, the only thing he supplied was a cast lead bullet
Same case head diameter. 10mm originally used 300 Savage cases cut down.
I’ve been forced to use SRP in my 357Mag (Rossi Lever Action) as no SPMP are available in my country. I started with lower loads. Works fine. I tested Remington SRP and found them to be too soft. Even had a punctured primer. CCI SRP worked best (better than Federal SRP) with Viht N-110 and H100.
I have used small mag pistol primers in 223 with starting loads without any problems with the primers or with the case. This was with a bolt action savage 111 with a very strong receiver and it seemed to work well. I DON'T think I would try it with regular small pistol primers. I never tried it on an AR . I did with a starting load in a solid receiver to see if I could do it .It worked in a pinch but if you can get the small rifle primers I would stick with them. I tried to make sure it was as safe as possible.
I tested a G19 and a Ruger LC9S with starting loads and Wincehster and CCI small rifle primers prior to working up. Guns set off the primers no problem, and cycled normally. As stated, whenever you change a component you MUST work your load up again and make sure it is safe in your firearm. In my case they performed identically to their pistol counterparts during workup, your results may vary.
I was just looking this up. Supposedly CCI small rifle primers work as small pistol magnum. Those are the only interchangeable primers that I’ve heard of, use at your own risk.
Speer makes plastic training bullets for revolvers that use only a primer and plastic case.
Great for garage plinking.
Still capable of injuries.
I expanded on this.
Use hot glue to make bullets instead of lead.
Use whatever primer fits the hole in the case of my choosing.
The larger the case, and longer the barrel, the less power the round has after leaving the barrel.
Of course none cycle semiauto.
But it’s fun plinking and was good use for primers that weren’t stored properly.
209 primers have nice oomph in a muzzle loader using the glue bullets or crayola erasers without a powder charge.
Caps only tend to leave the bullet stuck in the barrel using the hot glue or wax bullets.
Not a bad activity I’ve you have a nice location, but can’t get to the range.
Great for plinking empty soda cans.
Most only dent the can, but some penetrate.
Still capable of damaging your drywall.
I did try one out of a Glock 35 at the range.
I didn’t feel a breeze, but at 15yards I was able to watch the bullet curve away and miss the entire target by 4 feet 🤪
I would agree about not mixed matching. But in times like these gotta do, what you gotta do. But use some caution
A freeze-frame of 0:59 at just the right moment when he says "powder and case" would make a fantastic meme template
There are a few situations where I use large pistol primers in rifle cartridges, and this is in large calibre black powder calibres such as .577 Snider, .577/.450 Martini Henry and 11mm Werder. I cannot get the Werder to fire reliably using rifle primers as the strike is too weak and making a replacement spring is not an option. I also tend to use a magnum primer to ensure the flame gets through the black powder charge.
I would agree however that this is not something you should be doing without a very good reason and a clear understanding of the issues.
Due to the shortage of small pistol primers. I have used small rifle and small pistol magnum primers in my 9mm loads.
No noticeable change in pressure or velocity.
Excellent advice to all the “been there, I know it all Reloader’s”, especially on The Handloader’s Bench Forum!
The cup diameter and thickness are the only differences between primers. Multiple tests have shown no difference in pressures regardless of load. The priming compound is the same. There is really no danger in interchanging small rifle and small pistol primers, or large rifle and large pistol primers. In theory, it may affect reliability in some pistols when using thicker rifle primers; but I’ve never experienced any issues.
I’ve had no problem using Magnum primers in place of standard. I back off the load and use a chrono to verify my results.
I've heard that too.....thicker wall though for the higher pressures.
Used small pistol magnum primers in .223, no issues at all. .454 Casull and .357 maximum cartridges call for small rifle primers. Got some Wolf small rifle magnum primers, work fine in my AR, but 20-30 percent misfires in my Savage .223 bolt gun.
Small rifle and Small Pistol Magnum are identical
I loaded some cci standard pistol primers on a 9x19 and plenty of them with no issues. Once for some bizarre reason found small pistol magnum primers also from cci for half the price compared to standard pistol primers. Loaded them, on the crony the speeds are negligible almost identical. However when you manually load a primed case into the chamber with only a primer, no powder, no bullet, the magnum primers certainly has a bigger bang compared to the standard ones. m2c
Smugglers need to get into primers ! Prices right up there with dope !! Maybe higher !!
I shoot 32-20(32wcf) in a pistol. Speer load data shows to use a small rifle primer on their 32-20 rifle page and a small pistol primer on their pistol page. All other load data is exactly the same for both. So, in this case, I believe either could be used.
I’ve used small rifle primers In my 38spc +p for over 5k rounds now and they seem to be a proven standard for my loads with 6.5grns of hogdon longshot
I've been using small rifle primers in small pistol rounds for my lever action rifle due to the current shortage. Zero issues.
I experimented with large rifle primers in large pistol cartridges for lever action guns. Some makes seated flush - good to go. Some were slightly proud. We're talking barely perceptable. I shot those in tube mag lever actions using lead flat nose hollow points just fine. Wouldn't recommend it with regular flat nose bullets as there's a slim chance the negligible recoil of a 45 Volt round could set off a chain fire in the mag, I suppose.
Been loading 240 grain lswc with large rifle primers for years. No problem.
The 45acp is a cut down 7x57, '06, 308 case. Are you saying they then changed the primer pocket to use a pistol primer?
I'll sometimes use large pistol in rifle cartridges. Only when using light cast bullet loads though. Works well. And CCI says that their small pistol magnum & their small rifle primers are the same, no cup differences.
I load LP primers in my 1874 Sharps .45-70 with a charge of black powder with great result except the primers are extremely dented. I use LR primers for my smokeless loads in the same rifle, those primer fair much better.
It’s been a very long time since I’ve been able to find any srp , must admit I’ve been eyeing those pistol primers,
For light loads in something like 30-30 or 35 remington I would think about using large pistol primers in place of large rifle primers if I had no LRP. First I need to be sure that primers are not going to be pierced by the rifle firing pin and make sure the pressures produced are pistol pressure. 35 Remington is supposed to have very low pressures according to spec for some reason. I guess it has to do with the ancient Remington pump actions made in that chambering rather than anything being wrong with the 336.
I would never use a pistol primer in a full 5.56 loading. But might consider it with a weaker hammer spring in subsonic 300 black out loads.
I tried small pistol primers in my .300 blackout loads. I haven't had issues with my subs, did a few in supersonic with 150gr. I'm using shooters world(lovex) sbr socom and blackout powders, haven't found anything too concerning.....yet.
Thanks guys I had a recent mix up with a couple dillon primer tubes loaded 200 rounds of 9mm with small rifle primers luckily I'm running a stock striker spring
Yeah, I mistook large pistol primers for large rifle primers when reloading some 7x57 Mauser loads. This was a mistake due to not fully reading the labels on the primer container; all I saw was "Large." I mostly got away with it, but I had a few of the primers punctured by the firing pin. I was very lucky. Thankfully the gases didn't shoot back into my face. The punctured primers clued me into checking the component packaging when I got home from the range, and lo and behold, I had mixed the primers up. I count myself lucky... and chastened. Don't do this!
At the start of this primer shortage I had a box of small rifle primers left over when I ran out of small pistol primers. I thought I'd give them a try and loaded up a some in 9mm to try. I found because the small rifle primers have a thicker cup I had an unacceptable amount of miss fires and gave up on that idea. I'll use them in small rifle cases instead.
I used cut down .454 cases for heavy .45 Long Colt in a M1894 Winchester rifle. I used rifle primers, even though the loads called for Large Pistol primers. That was because my 1873 Peacemaker did not have a strong enough hammer spring to fire the primer. So, if I screwed up and put one of those loads in my Colt, I didn't damage the gun or me by firing something rated for a Ruger Blackhawk or the Winchester but probably twice the PSI as a Colt was rated for. My Ruger's would also fire those primers, btw. Coil over leaf spring, I suppose.
How about small magnum pistol primers used in place of small pistol primers?
I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Me over here thinking, there is nothing that would make this man laugh, great content guys👍
I agree stay with what the primer was designed for. Unfortunately a company called Super Vel" put out a video that promotes the use of primer interchangeability. Enter at your own risk.
They don't promote it, they just demonstrate that it can be done if you work the load properly. As a 22 hornet loader, we've understood this for a while that they can swapped just fine as long as small adjustments in the load are made.
I have 9mm ar rifle and ar pistols that have no problem taking small rifle primers in the ammo, just make sure there seated properly and the loads are worked up from the bottom like any other load, Do NOT use them as a substitute without knowing the difference, or working up the load.
Been using SR primers in 9mm, .38spl and .40sw for years with no issues and never changed the charge.
Would never use SP in a rifle cartridge though unless it was "do or die"
They will work unless weak firing pin spring that is only problem
@@roger7857 also not true, same brass thickness, same material
@@pacman10182 Rifle primers are .003 thicker in depth than pistol primers according to my micrometer. That is the reason a weak spring may not fire in a rifle with pistol primers
small rifle primers specifically 223 are super hard to get ahold of right now, so I definitely would not waist them for a substitute pistol primer.
Speer's reloading manual specifically says to use small pistol primers in the 22 Hornet. I do so and have had no problems. Apparently small rifle primers are hotter than they used to be and are a bit much for such a small case.
Years back when I started reloading, Remington small primers were labeled for pistol and rifle.
I have in my hand right now, a box of S&B 4,4 SP boxer on which is written: "For rifle, pistol or revolver cartidges."
Earlier today i chrono'd a batch of CCI 550 small pistol magnum vs a batch loaded identiacally with the exception of using a Vihtavuori small pistol primer with no "magnum" designation. The spread factored between 126 and 135 with no discernable difference between the batches.
In the comments there are testimonials for CCI using the same specs for pistol and rifle. I'd say as far as small primers are concerned this is clearly not a myth and that you can easily interchange with no consequence.
Just in case, save your used primers and start looking around for strike anywhere matches. The future is uncertain.
I hope your wrong on this but have to agree about the future of our republic?
You can successfully reused primers, but I wouldn't do it more than once. The cup is liable to get work hardened where the firing pin hits it and it will eventually blow out. I've always saved my old primer cups and anvils specifically for the kinds of situations were in now.
Don't use matches look up h48.
Do they still sell "strike anywhere" matches? I haven't seen any for over a decade.
@@haroldhenderson2824 you can get them on like ebay some dollars stores carry the diamond brand. also might want to look up prime all, or look up h48. the last 2 are primer compounds so more reliable. 8 years of using h48 only 2 didn't go bang cause i put the anvil in upside down. early on now i have machines do it so don't have that anymore.
Primers are so hard to find I'm reloading those now too
Pray tell... How?
No primer for me.
Swapped my firing pin for a kitchen match.
@@shawnparrish1999 just like a cartridge. Organize it, take it apart, clean it, and put it back together. Some use kids cap gun primers some use priming compounds.
I load and shoot 357 mag.
Sidearm, 4",SS, 5 shot, rifle, 22 inch barrel, single shot , break action, 3x9x40 scope.
I load for both but different loadings for each.
Pistol normal loadings from Hornady manual. SPP's used.
For the rifle I do use SRP with a reduction of 12%- 15%.
Sample load for the rifle using the Small Rifle Primers is, 158 grain XTP, 14 gns of Little Gun.
This load is accurate, at 50 yards, 3 shot groups, all holes touching dead center of the bulls eye.
I was expecting full derp and received credible info. Correct, if it seats and you work up a load go for it, but don't ever just interchange them. Impressed with your open and honest response.
CCI has a good piece on using small rifle primers in 38/357. Really no issue because that is a small rifle round to begin with.
Safety third. I’ve swapped many primers just to check what would happen if shtf. Good luck so far. Figured I should do it while the hospitals are still open:)
I've been experimenting with small pistol primers in dialed-back .223 Remington.
So far, no issues.
Yep. Good thing Elmer Keith wasn't deterred by "murkiness" like these guys, or we wouldn't have the 44 Magnum. This whole video screams "our lawyers said it was bad".
@@BloopTube then they should either have stuck to facts and done a real analysis like SuperVel, or they should have said nothing at all. This video is pointless as there's a million internet forum threads on this topic. This brings nothing new to the table.
@@jimvac77 I've not been reloading or handloading for long at all.
A family member bought me a Lee Challenger set and a couple of shell holders, and lent me his Hornady book.
It was a nice gift and I'm grateful for it.
Well, I then needed to buy the dies, digital scales, caliper, case conditioning tools, bullets, casings, powder, primers---you know the deal!
The PROBLEM, however, is that thus far, I have not seen ANY Small Rifle primers for sale at all.
So after spending 4 months with a collection of HUNDREDS of 40- and 53- and 55- and 69-grain bullets, HUNDREDS of cleaned and trimmed casings, several POUNDS of various powders, I started asking, "What will happen if I use the Small Pistol primers since I have them?"
The answers online were overwhelmingly, "Don't do that!"
And when pressed further---"Seriously, why not? What will happen?"---the answers ranged from 'the Small primers will get pushed out of the pocket and you'll blow your face off' to 'your firing pin will punch a hole straight through the primer and you'll blow your face off.'
I tested the second claim by actually loading USED Small Pistol primers into several .223 casings, then seating FMJ bullets, putting these 'dum-dums' in a magazine and cycling them through, pulling the trigger on each one. They all looked fine afterwards.
As far as primers getting pushed out, I also figured they ought the be held in the pocket fairly well by the breech face. When I began actually testing loads, I used a magnifying (at the range!) to look for any movement of the primer. Nothing.
So far, in my experimentarion with lightened .223 Remington loads using Small Pistol primers, I've seen nothing to indicate an impending catastrophe.
I understand why TH-cam folks preach, "No No...you must ALWAYS stick precisely to the published material!" I get it.
But sometimes it's fun, and necessary, to ask, "What if?" and begin testing things for yourself.
@@Cautionary_Tale_Harris so if you’re talking about reloading.223 with small pistol primers, this is considered one of the more dangerous situations because of chamber pressures. Pistol primers are usually made with thinner or weaker thickness metal so a lighter striking hammer can ignite them. I have had success with 300bo with pistol primers but they have been lighter loads. Conditions are different with fired rounds than with reloaded pistol primers in a dummy round. I personally wouldn’t worry to much but I could never suggested someone else do what I think you’re proposing. But hey, I’m not your mom:) have fun, STAY SAFE! Wear protection, support our 2A rights and always stay frosty!
I found Large Pistol primers to be useful in the sort of reduced loads that the old Lyman cast bullet handbook listed for 38-55. (10 gr of Unique for instance under a 246 gr cast projectile....)That WAS with a suitably lightened main spring. I SUSPECT such primers might also work just fine in the sort of loads of TRAIL BOSS recommended for use in obsolete cartridges, (I use a 90% full case of TB in an old 8x56R Steyr Bolt action - gives about 1350 fps) but have not tried it. I would be a little concerned that the firing pin strike would be too "hard" for the thinner primer cup. Noone wants pierced primers.
Honestly guy's if proper reloading practices are followed there is no problem IMHO. Small Rifle and Small Pistol primers are the exact same size but Small Rifle do have thicker cups. I shoot a lot of 9x23 Winchester in a 1911 and use small Rifle primers. Now with the shortage I have been substituting small rifle primers in my handgun ammo for 9mm, 38 Special and 357 Mag without a problem, I had a bunch of SR. I just backed off my loads and worked up carefully and I don't use them in maximum pressure loads, practice ammo only. I did notice greater velocity spread similar to Small Pistol Magnum primers but generally the velocity was within 1%-2% and you need to check that your handgun will ignite the SR primers reliably.
I have interchanged small rifle and small pistol primers in my .22 hornet loads for years
I load large pistol primers in black powder 45-70 w/cast bullets.Works fine for me in the BFR and CVA Scout.
Very good information. I did try small magnum pistol primers in 45ACP. But I went with very minimal loads. Seems ok. But it was just an experiment.
Ive loaded over 80,000 rounds of small rifle in my pistol rounds and dont change my loads. Only issue is light strikes on some guns.
Exact same thing here, so I replaced my firing pins to "extended" firing pin. No more light strikers.
The Remington EtronX system isn't so funny now is it?
Remington was right all along
🤣
@vettelover2009 I have watched it. Pretty neat system.
I watched a guy blow up his new M! Garand. He had a few large pistol primers left in his Dillon and didn't see why he couldn't use them in his rifle. What he didn't realize is that the M1 has a floating firing pin. When he inserted a round directly into the chamber (also a no no), and released the retracted bolt, the round went off due to not being fully seated under the extractor and fully chambered. Luckily nobody was seriously injured. He sent the rifle back to Springfield Armory and they would not attempt a repair.
Did not know Springfield Armory makes an M1 Garand, which is .30-06. Maybe an M1A, in .308?
@@fastvega to my knowledge, nobody makes new m1 Garands
I would never use riffle primers for pistol loads but I do use a small pistol primers for the 22 hornet it has a better even burn when loading non lead bullets thanks for the info
These are some of the best educational videos on YT
I don't reload ammunition at this time.
I didn't know there was different primers from pistols to rifles. I had heard about large and small primers and thought it was a caliber thing. Like rifles and 44 magnum, or 357 magnum and 308 rifles used the large primers and 223, 9mm and 25 acp or 380 acp would use the small primers. Thanks for setting me right. I knew there was a difference in powders. Pistol powders and rifle powders. A friend who talks about reloading with me said that get at least 2 preferably 3 loading manuals and consult all 3 before you start reloading. Until you learn more to stick to the specifics listed in those. There's also a big difference in why you reloading for. Are you just loading range ammo or are you trying to dial in the most accurate round for long range competition.