I would actually really love to see you expand on this video. I've been playing for around 3 years now, and this was a concept that only just started to make sense to me in the past year or so and it really is a big deal. People tell you to just play whatever you think is cool, and then find the good lists for that army, but its really not that simple if you want to win against other good players. Fighting against your own natural tendencies for the entirety of a 3 hour game is just a recipe for making mistakes.
I think winning in warhammer has 3 parts: knowing your army, knowing your opponents army, and luck. I'd like to play your melee army against my assimilation swarm list. Its very good at eating hyper aggressive melee lists.
Totally! There is ALOT more than just what i presented in the video to winning. I recommend trying someone proficient with my style list! If you are in the members part of my discord you can often catch me looking for a game as well.
I feel that luck has a little to do with it andI know it's a game of dice but if you're strategic and smart on how you play, I have bombed on so many rolles to still win
@@Rollinsixs definitely, but I see luck as more than just dice probability. Its how lucky are you to get a favorable/unfavorable match up, how skilled is your opponent, the dice, etc. Lots you can control and lots you can't.
Great video man! I’ve recently been looking at what kind of player I am. Black templars are kind of that “Deal with it” style army between 5+++ block of crusaders and Sword Brethren being melee monsters on the charge. But I’ve found I really dislike the dice rolls as I feel like I tend to average bad rolls and I prefer having lots of attacks to help mitigate bad rolls and produce more average rolls through volume. BT can sort of do that as they have rerolls on charges/advance and tons of attacks in melee. But recently I’ve picked up admech and running more of a Siegler approach which feels like a cross between the 2nd and 3rd archetypes. Using jail style with birds and movement shenanigans to outscore your opponent. It’s less about dice rolls and more like playing chess, thinking through what units to trade for what points or preventing enemy from scoring. I’ve been loving it. Huge learning curve but it’s super fun and admech typically has volume of attacks as well to help with my poor rolling.
At a certain point during a battle, u have to take a decisive risk to win. Just like rolling dice it doesn't always pan out. Knowing when to make ur move and how to make it is the essence of this game.
The issue with the meta chasers they just use a list because it's a winning list. They lack the skill to use that list to its full potential. You've got to know the strategy. You've got to know what the units are there for. What is the job of the units you're playing? Is it just to run in because you think that's the way the game goes??? I have always made my own list and never chase the meta and I have fun in my games and I normally win. If not, I learn from it. You won't get me with the same trick twice
I still struggle with my Orks a bit, even when they’ve been dominant in the 10th edition meta. Think I finally found my play style when I picked up Custodes. For whatever reason, that army has just clicked in my brain 😅
Not wanting to be negative but maybe you can't control more smallish units good? Custodes are very forgiving and have few units who do certain things. orks have a lot of units and loosing some of them unnecessary can eat up your game. Just a thing to think about maybe 😊
I would say its the exact opposite. Custodes are not forgiving in any way. You lose one unit before you are supposed to and your entire game plan collapses. Orks lose 2-3 and they have 17 more. Mind you i am not saying orks are forgiving either, they require a meticulous hand.
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 I know what you mean, I just meant that if you're putting custodes in a spot where they can get shot you don't loose the squat, because they are so tuff. You do that with scouts at space Marines or orks.
Had to pull this one out lol, great content! “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Super video as always. Vwry insightful stuff. I'm likeing these gaming philosophy type videos you've been making lately. I'm curious about that John Lennon Stormlance list. Anyone know what it looked like?
I struggle hard with my orks against my buddy who plays tyranids and Deathguard but tried one of your lists and we’ve been having much closer games. Been using TTS and it’s been a great way to really test and feel out different lists.
@jamesmanlangit I"m definitely leaning more into the Deal with It style army with probably a pinch of die die die. I enjoyed and had tons of fun with Creations of Bile a lot (even talked quit a lot in discord about it) but I do get stressed out having to yolo long charges
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 it definitely made me play better and i have to say they were the most fun games ive had even though i lost. i'll definitely visit the detachment again after de-stressing with renegade raiders :D
What category would you put Index sisters into? I started playing with them, kinda loved the playstyle, and now with the codex it's more of an acceptance from my side than an enjoyment, so I'm looking to get back into an army with more board control (Index Sisters did it with move blocking, and a few good tanks).
Do you mean hallowed martyrs? The codex overrides the index, they do not have access to that anymore. It would entirely depend on the list you built. List archetypes. not Army archetypes :)
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 yea sorry I wasn't specific enough. I meant the playstyle that was available in the index - I usually ran: Vahl+suits Celestine Triumph 2x10 arco 3x5 Seraphim 2x5 zeph 1x10 zeph 2x castigator 2x exorcist So something like MSU, with some decent shooting and board control.
I honestly am not sure what this list is trying to do! I would need more information, hop in the members discord to chat more, with some other sisters players!
Great video as usual. Are there armies and play styles that are basically a balance of styles? I'm thinking of Black Templars, for example, which can exhibit a certain amout of "deal-with-it" tankiness, but also kill things sometimes. They are less tanky than Death Guard and less killy than WE or BA. I played them for two years without knowing what to do, and then switched to Tyranids Vanguard Onslaught --- Na-na-na-poo-poo.
@@catherinedalzell3183 my space wolves list is a mix of deal with it and kill kill die. 2 squads of thunderwolves, 2 squads of women, a land raider full of blood claws and murderfang all rush up the board swiftly, and are hard to kill while also being gloriously killy at the same time (my dark angels friend hates my wulfen because they've never once failed to kill the lion early)
I am unquestionably a "deal with it" player. I've played exclusively Custodes and Guard this edition. I love to assert dominance early and fight it out using maxed Custodian blocks, big tank platoons etc. Can they kill some of them? Yes. Can they kill ALL of them at once? Unlikely. (It does happen occasionally, like if I make a mid-game blunder in positioning.) For me its an fun way to play, as it usually has some exciting back and forth bloodshed.
Very interesting analysis! I feel like, as a newer player (tau) I want to be a hybrid of die-die mega shooty but I find I'm also spending 1-3 turns positioning, returning to reserves, etc. so kinda working with both. This all being at sub1k points so there's that caveat as well. I feel like it would be cool to have a nice mix. Swiss Army Knife versus a Buck. My army right now feels so balanced between a lot of those archetypes. Some of my friends had some strong opinions in our earliest games about the ghostkeel as they simply couldn't kill it no matter how hard they tried and that feels a bit stat-checky in a way. I guess as I play more it'll likely flesh out into something more clear but definitely feels like a mix for me. I've struggled hardest with the "in your face" style armies my friends run: Hallowed Martyrs & Previously bringers of flame (he put that on the bench for now lol) Index Death Guard (Flyblown I've only played against twice)
This makes a lot of sense. I don't get to play too often so much more of my 40K time is on the list building and mathammer, so I'm always coming up with lists that are heavy on the kill side and high expected damage, then I look at the tourney winning lists for my faction and they are so different and I'm wondering how the heck they win. The trouble I find myself in is that all implies I'd be more comfortable with a killy list, but when doing games other than 40K I'm strongly a nah-nah category player. Like, one of my favorite board games, Twilight Imperium tends to become a stomp the apparent leader. I'm very good at creating those situations where I can go, this is my path to the 10vp to win, I can ignore any other distractions and losses, doesn't matter how many of my units you blow up, I'm still going to score and beat you. I think I do need the nah-nah list, but I need to break the mathhammer view constraint. Getting to play more would help a lot, figure out how to create those scoring opportunities without first needing that EV firepower to remove the opponent.
Realized one hangup I have that probably isn't shared by too many others is the majority of my 40K games were played during 2nd thru 5th edition, I'm only now returning for 10th. So most of my play experience was back when points were awarded for units destroyed and it wasn't until late 5th that events started having missions with a few extra points for also doing objective tasks.
This is exactly what i try telling people when they say I can't win with my Chaos Knight list. I can't stand the 13 war dog list that people say i need to run. I'm much more comfortable with having a Tyrant screening out my home objective and another large threat.
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 with the amount of 6" deepstrikes, I think the 12" denial bubble is necessary. And the long range threat that it can be, makes some people second guess how to beat it or avoid it entirely. Slap panoply of the cursed knights on it, keep it in cover, now you effectively have a 0+ 5++ armor save. At 510 points though, you may be right. I'm hoping it'll come down by 10 points.
I've had thoughts about where I fit as a player lately. I am probably somewhere between the latter two. Disrupting my opponent, telling them "nah, you dont get to do that" is one of my favourite moves. See spore mines :D
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 let's say (merely an hypothesis) I'm a degenerate and play Drukhari. And I don't necessarily WANT to put my hands on your face, but I'm willing to do it and drop tons of dice onto your unsuspecting models if you stop my poor, tender, defenseless MSU from scoring points. What kind of playstile is that (or, rather, in which of the macro categories does it fit better), aside from degenerate?
I’ve tried so many different “more obvious ” armies. Stuff like Renegade Raiders, Creations of Bile, Chaos Knights and T’au. Basically just armies with a clear cut game plan that fits well into the boxes you described and I’m literally 1:X at the GT level. Even in practice games with my good buddy who is much better than me I inconsistently win. However, inversely, when I play Aeldari which is alledgedly an army way above my “i have played 2 GTs and 3 RTTs ever” level, I consistently do much better in practice games. I feel like I “understand my place” in the game better. Been convincing myself that it’s just practice games and I’d suck just as much at them in a tournament game but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m just a filthy elf enjoyer.
Well when 10 men guard squads and 6 men warden squads , l had great fun and did win games. No FW, non non custodes , just the way l like to play. My squads were resilient and they could do melee well. I used 2 captins, Trajan and a blade champion. At the time we had more players and more army varity too.
KYDDD is the basic starter playstyle. Not saying it's bad or low skill (it's neither) but it's the default playstyle for new players, simply because shooting and fighting is more fun than scoring and tactics.
Luck lays waste to the best laid plans, I mean Custodes for example have 50% chance to save most attacks, that can be really swingy, especially with my Necron weapons also being d6+1
I am a first type for sure, that's why I chose to main nids in 9th edition. Then 10th came and they turned them into... this low S battle-shock bullshit shenanigans table control while getting tabled and trying not to get fucked too hard army with my opponent always crying every time I manage to sneak a Pyrrhic victory because people can't deal with shadow in the warp and biovores being the way they are. I can't honestly wait for the Emperor's Children so I can field some high damage aggressive army (watch GW turn them into another battle shock army). I most certainly enjoy third type as well but despite my efforts I am really dissatisfied with the current state of my faction. Back in Leviathan I used to find some good ground with aggressive vanguard jail lists but then secret missions became a thing. I'm tired, boss.
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 I used to rock these back in Leviathan. I'll try again! I was playing a triple exocrine triple maleceptor+trygon stat check list but I really enjoyed my carnifexes back then. Thank you!
Honestly, I think Warhammer is Mathammer. Players don't just roll 10 dice over a 3 hours game, they roll over hundreds of dice each, per game. Sure, hundreds of results aren't exactly a sample size for average statistic, but your luck does even out towards the end. If you are having bad luck early game, you're more likely to recover from that bad luck as time goes on, provided if you don't make stupid decisions. Knowing the average min/max damage a unit can do to another unit on the spot is critical information, and base your strategy on that information alone can drastically improve your chance of winning.
Well i certainly think math is important, but many times i see people who lose because they expect the averages. This way also leads doom and destruction!
@@sundownwargames That's not the point. Math hammer is being able to know the range of damage you can inflict or receive, and use that information going forward in making the best possible decision.
@@nekochen it's a fundamental aspect of the information battle in any tactical or strategic game above checkers. Each unit has a job to do, you have to get it where it's supposed to go, and the enemy has a say in what happens.
@@sundownwargames You can use that broad statement in almost every thing you do in life. MtG would be the same too under that reasoning, every card has a job to do, you just have to play that card at the right moment, and your opponent has a say in what happens; Every nail has a purpose, you just need to hammer it into a wall, and the electrical wiring and pipes behind it will have a say in what happens (you missed it or you win the jackpot) 😆
I would actually really love to see you expand on this video. I've been playing for around 3 years now, and this was a concept that only just started to make sense to me in the past year or so and it really is a big deal. People tell you to just play whatever you think is cool, and then find the good lists for that army, but its really not that simple if you want to win against other good players. Fighting against your own natural tendencies for the entirety of a 3 hour game is just a recipe for making mistakes.
I think winning in warhammer has 3 parts: knowing your army, knowing your opponents army, and luck.
I'd like to play your melee army against my assimilation swarm list. Its very good at eating hyper aggressive melee lists.
Totally! There is ALOT more than just what i presented in the video to winning. I recommend trying someone proficient with my style list! If you are in the members part of my discord you can often catch me looking for a game as well.
Baiting berserkers into kill-zones with gaunts is surely one of the best things in this game
I feel that luck has a little to do with it andI know it's a game of dice but if you're strategic and smart on how you play, I have bombed on so many rolles to still win
@@Rollinsixs definitely, but I see luck as more than just dice probability. Its how lucky are you to get a favorable/unfavorable match up, how skilled is your opponent, the dice, etc. Lots you can control and lots you can't.
4th type: Sexy rule of cool random models parade painted and pray to the dice gods
this man knows the way!
Great video man! I’ve recently been looking at what kind of player I am. Black templars are kind of that “Deal with it” style army between 5+++ block of crusaders and Sword Brethren being melee monsters on the charge. But I’ve found I really dislike the dice rolls as I feel like I tend to average bad rolls and I prefer having lots of attacks to help mitigate bad rolls and produce more average rolls through volume. BT can sort of do that as they have rerolls on charges/advance and tons of attacks in melee.
But recently I’ve picked up admech and running more of a Siegler approach which feels like a cross between the 2nd and 3rd archetypes. Using jail style with birds and movement shenanigans to outscore your opponent. It’s less about dice rolls and more like playing chess, thinking through what units to trade for what points or preventing enemy from scoring. I’ve been loving it. Huge learning curve but it’s super fun and admech typically has volume of attacks as well to help with my poor rolling.
At a certain point during a battle, u have to take a decisive risk to win. Just like rolling dice it doesn't always pan out. Knowing when to make ur move and how to make it is the essence of this game.
The issue with the meta chasers they just use a list because it's a winning list. They lack the skill to use that list to its full potential.
You've got to know the strategy. You've got to know what the units are there for. What is the job of the units you're playing? Is it just to run in because you think that's the way the game goes???
I have always made my own list and never chase the meta and I have fun in my games and I normally win. If not, I learn from it. You won't get me with the same trick twice
This makes a lot of sense. I was wondering why some lists work for everyone and not me
I still struggle with my Orks a bit, even when they’ve been dominant in the 10th edition meta. Think I finally found my play style when I picked up Custodes. For whatever reason, that army has just clicked in my brain 😅
perfect, happy to hear it!
We have some really interesting Custode builds we are practicing with atm
Not wanting to be negative but maybe you can't control more smallish units good? Custodes are very forgiving and have few units who do certain things. orks have a lot of units and loosing some of them unnecessary can eat up your game. Just a thing to think about maybe 😊
I would say its the exact opposite. Custodes are not forgiving in any way. You lose one unit before you are supposed to and your entire game plan collapses. Orks lose 2-3 and they have 17 more. Mind you i am not saying orks are forgiving either, they require a meticulous hand.
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 I know what you mean, I just meant that if you're putting custodes in a spot where they can get shot you don't loose the squat, because they are so tuff. You do that with scouts at space Marines or orks.
Love your vids! Would be cool if you did a overview all the armies and their playstyle.
hey cheers bud, thanks for your support! The problem with that is, style is not dependent on the Army, it is dependent on the Army LIST!
Had to pull this one out lol, great content!
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Cheers bud! I nerd'd out over sun tzu and Miyamoto Musashi. Their teachings apply perfectly to strategy games.
What playstyle does guard typically run?
Loved this video❤
So glad! I appreciate your support
Any advice on other channels to learn those different play styles?
Pardon?
Super video as always. Vwry insightful stuff. I'm likeing these gaming philosophy type videos you've been making lately.
I'm curious about that John Lennon Stormlance list. Anyone know what it looked like?
Just ask for it in the discord! We will post it for you!
I struggle hard with my orks against my buddy who plays tyranids and Deathguard but tried one of your lists and we’ve been having much closer games. Been using TTS and it’s been a great way to really test and feel out different lists.
excellent! happy to hear it bud.
@jamesmanlangit
I"m definitely leaning more into the Deal with It style army with probably a pinch of die die die. I enjoyed and had tons of fun with Creations of Bile a lot (even talked quit a lot in discord about it) but I do get stressed out having to yolo long charges
positioning my friend! :P we rarely need to make yolo long charges! but i respect, glad you gave it an honest try!
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 it definitely made me play better and i have to say they were the most fun games ive had even though i lost. i'll definitely visit the detachment again after de-stressing with renegade raiders :D
What category would you put Index sisters into?
I started playing with them, kinda loved the playstyle, and now with the codex it's more of an acceptance from my side than an enjoyment, so I'm looking to get back into an army with more board control (Index Sisters did it with move blocking, and a few good tanks).
Do you mean hallowed martyrs? The codex overrides the index, they do not have access to that anymore. It would entirely depend on the list you built. List archetypes. not Army archetypes :)
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 yea sorry I wasn't specific enough.
I meant the playstyle that was available in the index - I usually ran:
Vahl+suits
Celestine
Triumph
2x10 arco
3x5 Seraphim
2x5 zeph
1x10 zeph
2x castigator
2x exorcist
So something like MSU, with some decent shooting and board control.
I honestly am not sure what this list is trying to do! I would need more information, hop in the members discord to chat more, with some other sisters players!
Great video as usual. Are there armies and play styles that are basically a balance of styles? I'm thinking of Black Templars, for example, which can exhibit a certain amout of "deal-with-it" tankiness, but also kill things sometimes. They are less tanky than Death Guard and less killy than WE or BA. I played them for two years without knowing what to do, and then switched to Tyranids Vanguard Onslaught --- Na-na-na-poo-poo.
Yeah armies can be constructed in a variety of ways. Styles are not locked to armies, they are locked to List!
@@catherinedalzell3183 my space wolves list is a mix of deal with it and kill kill die. 2 squads of thunderwolves, 2 squads of women, a land raider full of blood claws and murderfang all rush up the board swiftly, and are hard to kill while also being gloriously killy at the same time (my dark angels friend hates my wulfen because they've never once failed to kill the lion early)
I am unquestionably a "deal with it" player. I've played exclusively Custodes and Guard this edition. I love to assert dominance early and fight it out using maxed Custodian blocks, big tank platoons etc. Can they kill some of them? Yes. Can they kill ALL of them at once? Unlikely. (It does happen occasionally, like if I make a mid-game blunder in positioning.) For me its an fun way to play, as it usually has some exciting back and forth bloodshed.
Yeah man, i completely understand that philosophy! My main practice partner is exactly the same way!
This was wildly helpful, and applies to sigmar as well. I recently built a top army absolutely hated playing it!
cheers homie! I find alot of advice tends to apply to multiple game systems! Strategy be Strategy!
Now that was very insightful
cheers homie
Very interesting analysis! I feel like, as a newer player (tau) I want to be a hybrid of die-die mega shooty but I find I'm also spending 1-3 turns positioning, returning to reserves, etc. so kinda working with both. This all being at sub1k points so there's that caveat as well. I feel like it would be cool to have a nice mix. Swiss Army Knife versus a Buck.
My army right now feels so balanced between a lot of those archetypes. Some of my friends had some strong opinions in our earliest games about the ghostkeel as they simply couldn't kill it no matter how hard they tried and that feels a bit stat-checky in a way.
I guess as I play more it'll likely flesh out into something more clear but definitely feels like a mix for me. I've struggled hardest with the "in your face" style armies my friends run:
Hallowed Martyrs & Previously bringers of flame (he put that on the bench for now lol)
Index Death Guard (Flyblown I've only played against twice)
I would recommend leaning into more one style than the other! But 1k makes things tricky, the games balance is very screwy at that points level.
This makes a lot of sense. I don't get to play too often so much more of my 40K time is on the list building and mathammer, so I'm always coming up with lists that are heavy on the kill side and high expected damage, then I look at the tourney winning lists for my faction and they are so different and I'm wondering how the heck they win. The trouble I find myself in is that all implies I'd be more comfortable with a killy list, but when doing games other than 40K I'm strongly a nah-nah category player. Like, one of my favorite board games, Twilight Imperium tends to become a stomp the apparent leader. I'm very good at creating those situations where I can go, this is my path to the 10vp to win, I can ignore any other distractions and losses, doesn't matter how many of my units you blow up, I'm still going to score and beat you. I think I do need the nah-nah list, but I need to break the mathhammer view constraint. Getting to play more would help a lot, figure out how to create those scoring opportunities without first needing that EV firepower to remove the opponent.
I always recommend playing in the style that calls to you!
Realized one hangup I have that probably isn't shared by too many others is the majority of my 40K games were played during 2nd thru 5th edition, I'm only now returning for 10th. So most of my play experience was back when points were awarded for units destroyed and it wasn't until late 5th that events started having missions with a few extra points for also doing objective tasks.
This is exactly what i try telling people when they say I can't win with my Chaos Knight list. I can't stand the 13 war dog list that people say i need to run. I'm much more comfortable with having a Tyrant screening out my home objective and another large threat.
i think the tyrant is just too expensive. But i always run the rampager now.
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 with the amount of 6" deepstrikes, I think the 12" denial bubble is necessary. And the long range threat that it can be, makes some people second guess how to beat it or avoid it entirely. Slap panoply of the cursed knights on it, keep it in cover, now you effectively have a 0+ 5++ armor save. At 510 points though, you may be right. I'm hoping it'll come down by 10 points.
If i could get the tyrant WITH the panolopy for 500 id take him.
When I win, it's because I'm good. If I lose it's GWs fault
this is the way
I've had thoughts about where I fit as a player lately. I am probably somewhere between the latter two.
Disrupting my opponent, telling them "nah, you dont get to do that" is one of my favourite moves.
See spore mines :D
I would say so!
What if my stuff is to get stuff done peacefully but if you come stop me I'm ready to throw down?
i am not sure i am following you, but the passion is tremendous!
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 let's say (merely an hypothesis) I'm a degenerate and play Drukhari. And I don't necessarily WANT to put my hands on your face, but I'm willing to do it and drop tons of dice onto your unsuspecting models if you stop my poor, tender, defenseless MSU from scoring points.
What kind of playstile is that (or, rather, in which of the macro categories does it fit better), aside from degenerate?
ahh we call this the Italian WTC team style :P
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 mamma mia,that must be it! Would you say it's cultural or genetic?
I’ve tried so many different “more obvious ” armies. Stuff like Renegade Raiders, Creations of Bile, Chaos Knights and T’au. Basically just armies with a clear cut game plan that fits well into the boxes you described and I’m literally 1:X at the GT level.
Even in practice games with my good buddy who is much better than me I inconsistently win.
However, inversely, when I play Aeldari which is alledgedly an army way above my “i have played 2 GTs and 3 RTTs ever” level, I consistently do much better in practice games. I feel like I “understand my place” in the game better.
Been convincing myself that it’s just practice games and I’d suck just as much at them in a tournament game but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m just a filthy elf enjoyer.
people naturally gravitate to what makes more sense to them!
Well when 10 men guard squads and 6 men warden squads , l had great fun and did win games. No FW, non non custodes , just the way l like to play. My squads were resilient and they could do melee well. I used 2 captins, Trajan and a blade champion. At the time we had more players and more army varity too.
with a new meta you gotta find a new way to play! No point in living in the past
not me losing a 10-man death company brick with lemartes turn 2 because all of the chaff I consolidated in falls back after I kill a scoring unit XD
forcing fall backs is a great way to force your opponent to waste turns
KYDDD is the basic starter playstyle. Not saying it's bad or low skill (it's neither) but it's the default playstyle for new players, simply because shooting and fighting is more fun than scoring and tactics.
yeah its probably where most people start. Then once you start using terrain alot of people drift away from it.
Luck lays waste to the best laid plans, I mean Custodes for example have 50% chance to save most attacks, that can be really swingy, especially with my Necron weapons also being d6+1
well certainly, luck can matter
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 That is why I made a deal with C'tan space gods, for all the luck lol
I am a first type for sure, that's why I chose to main nids in 9th edition. Then 10th came and they turned them into... this low S battle-shock bullshit shenanigans table control while getting tabled and trying not to get fucked too hard army with my opponent always crying every time I manage to sneak a Pyrrhic victory because people can't deal with shadow in the warp and biovores being the way they are.
I can't honestly wait for the Emperor's Children so I can field some high damage aggressive army (watch GW turn them into another battle shock army). I most certainly enjoy third type as well but despite my efforts I am really dissatisfied with the current state of my faction. Back in Leviathan I used to find some good ground with aggressive vanguard jail lists but then secret missions became a thing.
I'm tired, boss.
i recommend invasion fleet with old one eye leading 2 dakka fex's.... that backed up by 3 exocrines, is an ungodly amount of dmg
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 I used to rock these back in Leviathan. I'll try again! I was playing a triple exocrine triple maleceptor+trygon stat check list but I really enjoyed my carnifexes back then. Thank you!
I love my kill thousand sons
the nightmares i have from Tsons for the last year ......
I can make any list suck 😂❤
hahaha the mark of a true gentleman!
Honestly, I think Warhammer is Mathammer. Players don't just roll 10 dice over a 3 hours game, they roll over hundreds of dice each, per game. Sure, hundreds of results aren't exactly a sample size for average statistic, but your luck does even out towards the end. If you are having bad luck early game, you're more likely to recover from that bad luck as time goes on, provided if you don't make stupid decisions. Knowing the average min/max damage a unit can do to another unit on the spot is critical information, and base your strategy on that information alone can drastically improve your chance of winning.
Well i certainly think math is important, but many times i see people who lose because they expect the averages. This way also leads doom and destruction!
Mathhammer only matters if you have the ability to get the "winning math" plays off.
@@sundownwargames That's not the point. Math hammer is being able to know the range of damage you can inflict or receive, and use that information going forward in making the best possible decision.
@@nekochen it's a fundamental aspect of the information battle in any tactical or strategic game above checkers. Each unit has a job to do, you have to get it where it's supposed to go, and the enemy has a say in what happens.
@@sundownwargames You can use that broad statement in almost every thing you do in life. MtG would be the same too under that reasoning, every card has a job to do, you just have to play that card at the right moment, and your opponent has a say in what happens; Every nail has a purpose, you just need to hammer it into a wall, and the electrical wiring and pipes behind it will have a say in what happens (you missed it or you win the jackpot) 😆