I moved to single plane 18 months ago. Put in a couple hundred hours of driving range time, mostly learned from Todd Graves channel. I have never played better or enjoyed golf more. I am not a great golfer but I finally feel I'm approaching my best golf, and for me that's all that matters. 90 feels much better than 105 I'll tell you that.
Chad, I switched to Todd Graves teachings this past Fall. I’ve enjoyed hitting fairways and greens in regulation with straight shots like my buddies can’t believe. Oh, I’ve gained yardage,especially off the tee. I’m staying with this golf swing 👍🏽
Use to love your videos trying different swing methods and hearing the thoughts a views. Haven't enjoyed the content lately with the indoors stuff. But looking forward to this series. Welcome back.
Thanks for hanging in. Work has been nuts lately and I haven't had as much opportunity to play, but I'll be taking this on course soon and I have a golf ball review to film. Been looking forward to it for a while. But I'm trying to mix things up inside and out moving forward.
Aligning the right (trail) arm with the clubshaft is super important with the Single Plane swing. I tried it for 3-4 months last year. It worked well for me, just not as well as the Channel Lock swing (which I suggest you try at some point).
Moe had a swing speed of appx. 104mph when he was 65. I’ve been using it since 96 . Currently I’ve added Milo Lines rotational swing to the single plane swing with great success. Still a work in progress.
Very interesting. Some months ago I wided my stance and straighten my arms (I had no idea about this swing) . I was pretty consistent. My instructor inmediatly told me to not do that.
Really liked your summary, especially buckle and sit. Been at one plane for 4 weeks and really see a difference in power thru the simplicity of thetechnique. I’m 75 and definitely have increased my swing speed. I have been following Graves golf and did their free static fittting and had the lies of my clubs bent based on their analysis. Really helped. Don’t care if I look stupid! Look forward to following your one plane journey.. Don
Been single-planer for over 10 years, but constantly struggling for consistency. Will watch your journey and hopefully gleem some knowledge from it that will help me get back on track. Also, I like the tee shirt with the flag pattern made up of golf clubs and balls.
I been playing around with the single plan but haven’t fully embraced it yet. I still have a hard setting into the lead knee like you talked about. Thanks
I played this way for almost 20 years, ever since I read the article about Moe in the '96 golf digest. I've been through a few different swing methods the past few years, but I still hit driver the best, and farthest with single plane. Lining up the shaft with your trail forearm is the correct way, and makes sense since that's where it ends up anyway due to inertia. The only real issue I ever had with it is that it makes it too easy for me to flip the club, for some reason.
I've got the coming weeks to continue learning, but with the little bit I've experienced so far tells me that you may need to play the ball further forward, toward the target, and make that club REALLY go THROUGH the ball all the way down the line.
So I was looking at your swing to try and help you streamline your efforts a bit and thinking about the most helpful points I could offer. 1) Your shoulders and upper back are rounded at address. This is a steep swing position (for example Jack Nicklaus) because a rounded upper back places the arms on a steeper plane in the early backswing. 2) If you change 1) your arms will feel further away from you and you want that so don't bring them closer. 3) Your takeaway is not bad for 1-plane but the the club is too closed early and staying too closed on the way back. Your club toe is facing down to the ground at halfway back and Moe's is starting to face the sky and continues to face the sky. The rotation of your clubface has to be in synch with the plane that you are swinging on or you will fight to square the face to the plane (this is the cause of your "17 plane swing") 4) You're not bad on this (it's the other things that cause the plane issue) but continue to think of the plane bisecting your trail shirt seam throughout the swing (especially on full swings) so the cocking of the trail arm and the face rotation work almost perpendicularly to that trail side shirt seam and the trail shoulder and side really move towards and around through the ball on the downswing (your trail elbow will feel really tucked in to your side). This is what keeps the club on a single plane coming down. Hope this helps.
Thanks so much for those points. And I see much the same when I look at it. The rounded back...... chronic issue and I honestly don't know how to fix it without a chiropractor and a major effort on a constantly conscious effort. The clubface is actually something I'm working on by changing the back of my left hand during the swing to get the face and the club on plane. I'll keep working.
@@GolfTestDummy I understand and I have a naturally rounded back as well. But I can still do what I'm talking about to a fair degree but it takes a paradigm shift which is that this swing is much more like swinging a baseball bat to a low point than it is like swinging a golf club for many people. You'd be amazed how around your body you can swing and still hit the ball well. So the chest will feel like it's way more up relative to the club path than you are used to (you will feel as though you will swing OVER the ball and not hit it; but you will) so you will have to feel that you are swinging around the middle of your back the whole swing and feel as though you are pointing the toe of the club behind you (the toe will feel VERY flat) at halfway back. I also believe that you must shorten to 3/4 at most to start with to get the feel of it because you have quite a bit of run on with your arms. You must exaggerate the feels quite a bit to make this change; remember feel is not real as all the pros say. Start slow and your feel will adapt. Maybe use a mirror to check your mid-backswing toe and shaft position and reduce your expectations at first. Also maybe stop at the top with a checked good position at first and then swing down.
The club aligns with the trail arm from a Down-the-Line perspective, and aligns with the lead arm from a Face On view. I am 1.5 years into training with Graves. Their academy is bar none the best way to PROPERLY learn Moe’s swing mechanics. Do yourself a favor and join their gold membership. You’ll be amazed at how quickly they will improve you.
@@GolfTestDummy I respect your decision to DIY. I also tried this and it was eye-opening and how much I thought I understood, but didn’t. My initial swing video to where I am now is night and day. Results, too. Good luck, sir.
Tried this swing method for a couple of years, so much so that playing partners on the course teased me by calling me “ Moe” lol! What was undeniable was I hit the ball very, very straight with little or no curvature. I did buy the “ Natural Golf “ clubs which were similar to the ones Moe used, to accommodate the lie angle. What I found back then was I did lose some distance off the tee, but not much. With all the hype around Bryson Dechambeau I might dust off the clubs , and hopefully not endure as much ribbing as I got ten years ago. By the way , played golf today with a gentleman who is 100 years old and he mentioned in passing he had followed Moe during a golf tournament and said he never saw anyone hit the ball as straight and accurately as Moe Norman. Moe is legendary as a ball striker here in Canada. Good luck Chad with following and trying the “ Moe swing “ and look forward to watching future videos as you go down the single plane rabbit hole. Cheers from Nova Scotia. Mike.
Been through Norman method, Junge method and truly believe in the idea. And you’re right, each system is different. I’ve adapted some of both versions and have my own now that I found easier on my body with my bad knees. But regardless, there’s a ton of merit to it. And some of the other comments are spot on. Combine this with single length irons, and you eliminate a ton of variables and the game is so much easier…especially for beginners.
Moe kept his right heel down at & through impact. Just a side note. Regardless, Great video. Thanks for sharing. Really enjoyed it. PS. Todd Graves will probably try to sue you for using a pic of him. 🤪
Your a Saint trying all of these different styles of playing golf. I played with this single plane years ago. It works but I quit playing for more than a minute and came back playing more conventional. You are making a case to revisit this single plane. But right now I'm committed to Shawn Clements thought process. Your mind knows how to do this stuff we just need to know how to apply what we know to golf. I'm excited to watch how this comes out for you. Who knows you might change your approach to your game. Who knows maybe mine too.
One last thing but it's very important. Moe's lead arm is really being pulled rapidly in towards his lower torso in the early backswing because you CANNOT swing around your body if there is a high degree of arm lift in the backswing. The club is far from the body at address so you must really reduce arm lift on the way back to keep the club low in both directions. This means that the lead arm must start to approach the lower torso as you turn.
Good stuff. Suggestion, why don't you just interview Todd Graves as he has spent the last 25 years studying and learning the Single plane swing. Often, directly under the tutelage of Moe Norman himself. He has also done hundreds if not thousands of videos, written two best selling books and he and his brother win just about everything they enter tournament wise.... Just an idea and thanks for bringing this to the attention of your followers.
Well, I haven't reached out to Todd directly, but I did tag him in the first few videos. He has plenty of students and is very busy I'm sure. But also, this point of view is for the DIY types, and people that want to try and decode it for themselves. That said; I've watched a boat load of Todd's videos, lol.
I have been playing single plan golf for 28 years and have tried both the Graves and Junge method. I started with Natural Golf which in my opinion was a gimmick as they wanted you to buy clubs, grips, balls, etc. I have taken some of Todd's and Kirk's methods and made my own single plan swing. Looking forward to hearing about your journey.
Thanks Rick. In the off and on research I've done over the last few years, people often interpret Moe in different ways. I remember Natural Golf when it first hit. You're absolutely right.
At this point, I need to identify the differences first and then try each. I'm ignorant as to what those differences are right now, and I just have a broad understanding of the single plane swing in general.
Just to be clear (and I hope that I'm not annoying you, but it's well intended) about the rounded back thing. I believe that our bodies adapt to patterns of motion and so you have a pattern of coming down steeply from the top and your body "knows" this. If you made your upper spine upright at address with that delivery pattern, your body knows that you would literally have trouble hitting the ball solidly so it won't let you do that. As you "convince" your body that a flatter delivery with a less closed clubface will work, it will feel safe to take some of the "hunch" out of your shoulders but lifting your head a little and letting your chest come up bit; even a few degrees in these things make a big difference. As it stands, your takeway hand position is so closed to your lead arm path that there is no way to swing the shaft back on the same plane and hold the face open enough to catch it solidly without some major body contortions. When you swing down you are fighting (quite effectively) to keep your shoulders and hips closed long enough to feel like you can square the face through impact (if you fired them right away, you would duck hook the ball). If you look at your driver swing in this video you have barely opened your hips through impact because you have to hold your body back so much (due to a longer shaft). Hence you fight early extension. The real reason that standing further from the ball has worked is not about one plane swinging, it is because you loop the club around (major cross the line) at the top with a closed clubface which makes you have to come down steeply and so being able to swing more out to the ball at the bottom gives you a better angle of attack (flatter approach) to hit the ball solidly but there is a lot of timing at the bottom to do this. All of this is why I say that you need to move your trail arm and hand in line with the intended plane and have face rotation that synchs (face up at halfway) with a flatter (one plane) swing. Shorten your swing to keep the loop (line crossing) out of it. If you retrain your body in this way, you will be able to fire your body much more directly through impact and hold the angle way better and your swing will be much more free. In summary, your biggest key to all of this is fixing your face rotation to arm path/plane relationship because you are currently majorly fighting the one that you have.
I worked on that very thing last night and found some real success. If I keep grinding it out over the next few weeks, I should have some new motion and positions retrained.
@@GolfTestDummy Well I'm glad. Some things will feel REALLY different at first but ultimately way better in the end, I believe. Keep at it. Best of Luck.
You forgot Count Yogi ( Harry M. Frankenberg 1915 to 1990) he was a great ball striker but he was more a showman, i read he could drive the ball over 400yds and did on several occasions. I use the single plane swing as Kirk Junge teaches, Kirk tried Moes style for years but modified it and came up with his "set up at impact" style, very easy to learn.
I have spoke with Todd Graves about the 1 plane swing. I think it does have merit if you commit to it. I still have elements of it in my swing but it’s important to get clubs especially irons that fit you with that swing. If you don’t either replace or adjust your irons it could be frustrating. I think it’s a good method I just didn’t want to rebuild what I already do including an equipment change to do it.
@@GolfTestDummy happy you’re doing the journey though. I love when you try new ideas. I actually get a lot out of it but it’s also just fun to watch. I don’t know if this interests you but you could expand beyond full swing. Ie different putting ideas and putters. Different pitching/chipping ideas. Different course strategies like Decades or Radical Golf. You get the idea. Just a thought.
Moe Norman takes his trail hand and arm back right along the plane as the the trail shoulder moves back. The trail hand moves slightly below the plane line going back. It's more of a direct cocking movement of the arm and shoulder and the trail arm cocks quite quickly and the hand moves quite close to the body (less width than you're using). Your pre-impact and impact alignments were quite good on some of those shots but your trail side (especially hand and arm) are travelling a very round about path to get there. Shorten and tighten the trail arm and hand path and you will do even better.
Tried it - I can do it with Driver, 3 wood and hybrid but the irons - not a chance. But I think you need the single length clubs or the lie angles have to be changed on the clubs. Ball position in the stance is critical as well. "Staying with it works" with any swing.
Yeah that's why I said in the video that lots of coaches use "stay with the shot". It's a good, solid all around thought. As far as the irons versus woods and why one would work and not the other, I'll learn more as the weeks progress and hopefully I can shed some light. We shall see.
Good video, seems like you're already a pretty good golfer so for you to seem to buy in to the single plane is eye opening. I am new to single plane but it has been a godsend! I would like to know more about your golf simulator that you have to practice in. Can you share information on that?
Thanks Steve! Yeah, I have a few vids on the Garmin R10 I'm using. Check those out. Also, there are several more single plane videos, so go through and binge watch.
I wonder why don't you have single plane swing and you are coming now. I decided change my swing to single plane about week ago and today in golf courses had some wonderful shot straight to pin but some skills to be improved such as the backswing trail arm folding ... Hope can learn more from you here.
After reviewing Moe Norman, Todd Graves and Kirk Junge, I decided this technique/style might be worth taking a serious look at. After all, it works for Bryson Dechambeau, right? I'm in my early 70's so I'm thinking it might help me to play better, at this point of "Old Guy Golf" lol ... fingers crossed. So I ordered new irons (all the same length and weight), 5 through GW ... (all irons are cut to 8 iron length). Only been out a few times and here is what I'm working on at this point. Since all clubs are identical, I'm focusing on finding exactly where the "low point/divot" in my swing repeats. Now, with every setup being the same, I'm hoping this "Single Plane Swing" will show overall ball striking consistency and improvement. If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to follow up with my findings. Glad you're doing a review on this approach, Chad ... If anyone can figure this out, its you ... =) Regards, George
Thanks George! I can tell you that finding the low point and being able to setup so that it occurs predictably is very valuable. Keep me posted on the single length irons!
@Donal Mooney … Hi Donal. I think single length/weight irons are a great idea. However, if I may, I would recommend getting custom fit for optimum performance. Three things that I learned to be really helpful: 1. Proper length, followed by: 2. optimal weight. Last but not least 3. Shaft. I would pick the shaft choice after completion of the first two steps. Shaft flex profiles should be determined after the first two steps are locked in. You can actually choose the flex point/profile for high, mid or low, built into the shaft. Good luck … hope it works as good for you as it has for me.
I’m wanting to learn this method myself and have watched a lot of videos. It looks easy, then I go practice and it’s a different story lol. I’ll keep practicing because this seems like a better way to swing the club, I’ll keep watching your videos as well so maybe you can teach me a thing or two as well
It's very different from conventionally taught swings, so on the surface it seems much more difficult. But the more I mess with it, the more I realize that if you could instantly unlearn all you know about golf, this is how you'd probably set up and swing fairly naturally. The hard part is de-programing the old stuff.
You can "learn" the swing from Todd's videos. To apply it consistently, you must video your swing and analyze the differences between what you "feel" (think you are doing) and what is "real"(what you are actually producing). I realized quickly how poor my ability to discern and correct my errors was (and I am a career scientist with an analytical bent) so I shelled out the $$$ for a year gold membership that included unlimited expert analysis, coaching and drills. It made all the difference and was the best golf instruction I ever received. Try it on your own, but with FO and DTL videos, will you see that your hips are rotating around the spine and moving the appropriate distance and direction? The "chair drill" showed me just how obvious my problem was and how to fix it. Couldn't have done it on my own. Good luck.
@Golf Test Dummy Indeed it is. Todd's work in biomechanics shows that Moe found the most efficient and repeatable way to swing to impact. Natural and not harmful (if the body is designed that way, it makes sense) Moe was unhindered by "conventional wisdom" (Relaxed 'athletic' position at address, my foot!) and responded to the body's requirements. Feeling of greatness means the way we are meant to feel whenever we do anything properly.
I have been away from golf for 25 years. Just started messing around with it again. Have looked at many different ideas on TH-cam. So do you think the is the easiest to learn and/or easiest on the body?
Whew. Those are 2 tough questions. I have only just started with it, so my perspective might not be completely formed yet. But so far, it may not be the easiest to learn, but I haven't found it too difficult yet. As far as easy on the body, I don't have any new pains, just new calluses, haha.
Despite the need for a slightly flatter "lie" of the club head, just use this as a yardstick. The length of the club from hosel to grip, is the distance, in stance, between your toes AND the distance from the ball at address! (About 22 in" for a PW, 26" for a 6 iron and 36" for a driver.) You can use the club you are about to hit with as a "guide" on the course (allowed by the rules of golf) and this ensures repeatability. Notwithstanding the efficiency and consistency of this swing, the #1 reason why I switched and use it now is, NO MORE BACK PAIN! I quit from 40 to 57 years of age for that reason. I played for 8 years in retirement (Like hell I wasn't going to golf in my "golden years"...) with pain that made playing more than nine holes difficult and less than enjoyable. The need for ice and pills afterward was also a problem. Now, after 2 years of SPS (a la Moe Norman thanks to Todd Graves and the GGA), my handicap is at 5 (all time low) and I outdrive ALL of my playing partners and only waste my time looking for THEIR golf balls...lol.
I think Bryson DeChambeau is a perfect example of the single plane swing and he has no issues with distance - at least he appears to use a single plane. Of course he has some customer made irons with longer lengths, but he makes is works.
He does more of a modified single plane rather than strictly traditional. And I don't have any issues with that. What he's doing is changing the game if you ask me. I'm all for it.
@@GolfTestDummy So are you planning to stay with this new modified swing? I am considering it for my driver and other longer clubs, but I have worked hard to improve my iron striking so hate to muck with it. Although I do have some issues with my right hip so I might try it and see if it is less or more of a strain. I supposed with practice there is nothing wrong with having multiple swings if you can manage it.
Chad Your video had me jumping up and hitting some balls the Moe way and I did for the last 3 days along with the Channel Lock protocols and I must say it’s been a good 2 good days With what I believe is a consistent ball flight swing system CL and consistent way to deliver the club back to the ball the Moe way is like peanut butter and grape jelly 👌 If someone is not willing to look a tad different to strike the ball better …then hugely ball flights needs friends to Looking forward to seeing more videos on this Moe way from you 👍
I'm still finding my way at this point and trying to find what works and what doesn't for me. Right now though, I let my lower body be more of a stabilizer and let the arms release in front of me down the line until they pull me up and out.
Haha, it's still golf and that means, good breaks AND bad breaks. Even for Moe. But, Moe said one of his best, if not THE best part of his game was his bunker play.
Yeah I think it's funny that amateur golfers are concerned with distance. They'd rather bomb one 250 and put seven more OB instead of putting 9 in 10 balls down the fairway at 230. To each their own I guess.
Yep. Moe was never concerned with distance at all. I think if we get the swing right and the motions and feels that work consistently for us, the distance can come. But not before the technique is locked in.
To me Todd is able to backup every element of the swing with biomechanics/science/3D modelling. He's really done his homework on it. To me Kirks method still retains a lot of the old problems of the conventional golf swing. I'm not saying Kirk isn't a good golfer. He's clearly a fantastic golfer but I believe Todd/Moes method is a much simpler way to hit a golf ball
Make it yor own. No one will swing exactly like anohter person. Personally i use Kirk Junges method mixed with Stack and tilt. Never hit the ball better.
Beware of Graves Golf. They have a very bad reputation for filing lawsuits against respected pros such as Chandler Rusk who was a master instructor for them, as well as Dr. Sharon Barley, and Kirk Junge who is also very popular on TH-cam. They appear to be trying to put all other pros teaching a similar concept out of business. This is unheard of in the golf industry. If you use the words Single plane or Moe Norman they will threaten to sue you if you do not take down content. If you are teaching such a swing they may also go after you.
Hopefully not. One thing that I'd say makes me different is that I don't teach anything. I review, experiment, and share my thoughts and findings with people. Kind of like a Yelp review on steroids, haha.
What did you miss. It took Moe a Million balls. Can't short cut these things.,,,,,Maybe the swing is not as easy as being advertised. When somone on YT says "never played better" ????? Golf is not easy regardless.
Well, this was week 1 of 12. In the weeks after this, I feel like I had enough time to figure a few things out, eliminate some preconceptions in my head, and see some pretty positive results. One thing I've said in a few of these videos is that nobody will reach Moe's level. Even with 10 million balls. Moe was special. My only hope with this technique was to see noticeable and marked improvement. By the end, I'd definitely seen that.
You know, even before that, lol. The entire concept is made way too complex. The laundry list of movements that are needed to make the setup work is ridiculous.
It's worth noting that towards the end of his career Moe Norman abandoned this swing in favour of the Manuel de la Torre swing. He felt it was simpler and more repeatable.
You may have missed something here. Near the beginning of the video, I'm pretty sure I said that I was in no way an expert, and that this was my very first attempt at making a single plane swing. Which is the opposite of saying I'd mastered it.
Explicitly forceful, swinging with body and limbs movements all over the planet. Personally, I think your golf swing looks more elegant in Jim Venetos style...Just saying
I agree that there are better looking swings for sure. But if the results after several weeks are markedly improved, that overrides everything else for me.
@@GolfTestDummy LOL Can't disagree with that...knowing that you've searching for power for years. Just make sure your muscle tension, especially your lead arm doesn't go over-stretched. BTW, classy golfing outfit on you. Cheers, enjoy!
I moved to single plane 18 months ago. Put in a couple hundred hours of driving range time, mostly learned from Todd Graves channel. I have never played better or enjoyed golf more. I am not a great golfer but I finally feel I'm approaching my best golf, and for me that's all that matters. 90 feels much better than 105 I'll tell you that.
Got that right! We're on the path and the goal is just to take one more step each day.
Chad, I switched to Todd Graves teachings this past Fall. I’ve enjoyed hitting fairways and greens in regulation with straight shots like my buddies can’t believe. Oh, I’ve gained yardage,especially off the tee. I’m staying with this golf swing 👍🏽
Todd Graves is a great resource.
I watch a lot of his stuff.
I'm a new golf fan been attempting this for a few months and feel it's help me improve can't wait for more content thanks
Thanks Mr Hardy! I'll keep making the content as long as y'all keep watching, haha. Best of luck to you!
I’m always excited for you when you test a new swing! Your enthusiasm is passed on Chad. Good luck.
Thanks John!
Great video looking forward to seeing more
Use to love your videos trying different swing methods and hearing the thoughts a views. Haven't enjoyed the content lately with the indoors stuff. But looking forward to this series. Welcome back.
Thanks for hanging in. Work has been nuts lately and I haven't had as much opportunity to play, but I'll be taking this on course soon and I have a golf ball review to film. Been looking forward to it for a while. But I'm trying to mix things up inside and out moving forward.
Aligning the right (trail) arm with the clubshaft is super important with the Single Plane swing. I tried it for 3-4 months last year. It worked well for me, just not as well as the Channel Lock swing (which I suggest you try at some point).
Moe had a swing speed of appx. 104mph when he was 65.
I’ve been using it since 96 . Currently I’ve added Milo Lines rotational swing to the single plane swing with great success.
Still a work in progress.
That's great. I've watched quite a few of Milo's vids before. Good stuff.
This is where people go wrong. They keep experimenting.
Very interesting. Some months ago I wided my stance and straighten my arms (I had no idea about this swing) . I was pretty consistent. My instructor inmediatly told me to not do that.
Yeah, conventional golf and single plane golf do not get along, haha. Coaches of either will argue back and forth for a thousand years.
Really liked your summary, especially buckle and sit. Been at one plane for 4 weeks and really see a difference in power thru the simplicity of thetechnique. I’m 75 and definitely have increased my swing speed. I have been following Graves golf and did their free static fittting and had the lies of my clubs bent based on their analysis. Really helped. Don’t care if I look stupid! Look forward to following your one plane journey.. Don
Thanks Don! Keep watching. There are a few more since the first video and another comes out today at 3.
Single plane is simply the best. This swing is for amateur golfers and allows for a full swing. He catches everything on the upswing
The coming weeks should be educational.
Been single-planer for over 10 years, but constantly struggling for consistency. Will watch your journey and hopefully gleem some knowledge from it that will help me get back on track. Also, I like the tee shirt with the flag pattern made up of golf clubs and balls.
Thanks DP! I'm not sure what was causing the inconsistency for you, but I hope that watching me go through it all helps.
I been playing around with the single plan but haven’t fully embraced it yet. I still have a hard setting into the lead knee like you talked about. Thanks
I played this way for almost 20 years, ever since I read the article about Moe in the '96 golf digest. I've been through a few different swing methods the past few years, but I still hit driver the best, and farthest with single plane. Lining up the shaft with your trail forearm is the correct way, and makes sense since that's where it ends up anyway due to inertia. The only real issue I ever had with it is that it makes it too easy for me to flip the club, for some reason.
I've got the coming weeks to continue learning, but with the little bit I've experienced so far tells me that you may need to play the ball further forward, toward the target, and make that club REALLY go THROUGH the ball all the way down the line.
Downswing with arms. You'll never go back. Manuel de la Torre Golf. Moe recommended it in Florida.
Great intro to the best way I have found to play golf
So I was looking at your swing to try and help you streamline your efforts a bit and thinking about the most helpful points I could offer. 1) Your shoulders and upper back are rounded at address. This is a steep swing position (for example Jack Nicklaus) because a rounded upper back places the arms on a steeper plane in the early backswing. 2) If you change 1) your arms will feel further away from you and you want that so don't bring them closer. 3) Your takeaway is not bad for 1-plane but the the club is too closed early and staying too closed on the way back. Your club toe is facing down to the ground at halfway back and Moe's is starting to face the sky and continues to face the sky. The rotation of your clubface has to be in synch with the plane that you are swinging on or you will fight to square the face to the plane (this is the cause of your "17 plane swing") 4) You're not bad on this (it's the other things that cause the plane issue) but continue to think of the plane bisecting your trail shirt seam throughout the swing (especially on full swings) so the cocking of the trail arm and the face rotation work almost perpendicularly to that trail side shirt seam and the trail shoulder and side really move towards and around through the ball on the downswing (your trail elbow will feel really tucked in to your side). This is what keeps the club on a single plane coming down. Hope this helps.
Thanks so much for those points. And I see much the same when I look at it. The rounded back...... chronic issue and I honestly don't know how to fix it without a chiropractor and a major effort on a constantly conscious effort. The clubface is actually something I'm working on by changing the back of my left hand during the swing to get the face and the club on plane. I'll keep working.
@@GolfTestDummy I understand and I have a naturally rounded back as well. But I can still do what I'm talking about to a fair degree but it takes a paradigm shift which is that this swing is much more like swinging a baseball bat to a low point than it is like swinging a golf club for many people. You'd be amazed how around your body you can swing and still hit the ball well. So the chest will feel like it's way more up relative to the club path than you are used to (you will feel as though you will swing OVER the ball and not hit it; but you will) so you will have to feel that you are swinging around the middle of your back the whole swing and feel as though you are pointing the toe of the club behind you (the toe will feel VERY flat) at halfway back. I also believe that you must shorten to 3/4 at most to start with to get the feel of it because you have quite a bit of run on with your arms. You must exaggerate the feels quite a bit to make this change; remember feel is not real as all the pros say. Start slow and your feel will adapt. Maybe use a mirror to check your mid-backswing toe and shaft position and reduce your expectations at first. Also maybe stop at the top with a checked good position at first and then swing down.
I have been using this method and have VLOGs on my you tube channel. I like it so far
Love it! I’d highly suggest you look at Kirk Junge’s video on TH-cam going over the difference between what he teaches and Moe’s approach
Thanks so much! Will do.
The club aligns with the trail arm from a Down-the-Line perspective, and aligns with the lead arm from a Face On view. I am 1.5 years into training with Graves. Their academy is bar none the best way to PROPERLY learn Moe’s swing mechanics. Do yourself a favor and join their gold membership. You’ll be amazed at how quickly they will improve you.
I may at some point, but for now, experimenting to see just how good I can make it DIY style just based on what I can find on TH-cam. Tall task.
@@GolfTestDummy I respect your decision to DIY. I also tried this and it was eye-opening and how much I thought I understood, but didn’t. My initial swing video to where I am now is night and day. Results, too. Good luck, sir.
Tried this swing method for a couple of years, so much so that playing partners on the course teased me by calling me “ Moe” lol! What was undeniable was I hit the ball very, very straight with little or no curvature. I did buy the “ Natural Golf “ clubs which were similar to the ones Moe used, to accommodate the lie angle. What I found back then was I did lose some distance off the tee, but not much. With all the hype around Bryson Dechambeau I might dust off the clubs , and hopefully not endure as much ribbing as I got ten years ago. By the way , played golf today with a gentleman who is 100 years old and he mentioned in passing he had followed Moe during a golf tournament and said he never saw anyone hit the ball as straight and accurately as Moe Norman. Moe is legendary as a ball striker here in Canada. Good luck Chad with following and trying the “ Moe swing “ and look forward to watching future videos as you go down the single plane rabbit hole. Cheers from Nova Scotia. Mike.
Thanks for the anecdotes! I remember when Natural Golf came out. Time will tell if this will be the way for me.
I use one length irons all with same lie angles and shaft length.
Been through Norman method, Junge method and truly believe in the idea. And you’re right, each system is different. I’ve adapted some of both versions and have my own now that I found easier on my body with my bad knees. But regardless, there’s a ton of merit to it. And some of the other comments are spot on. Combine this with single length irons, and you eliminate a ton of variables and the game is so much easier…especially for beginners.
I'm just starting to find my way and so far, I'm finding myself taking elements from different single plane ideas. Seems to be working.
@@GolfTestDummy reach out if you have any wuestions
Moe kept his right heel down at & through impact. Just a side note. Regardless, Great video. Thanks for sharing. Really enjoyed it.
PS. Todd Graves will probably try to sue you for using a pic of him. 🤪
Your a Saint trying all of these different styles of playing golf. I played with this single plane years ago. It works but I quit playing for more than a minute and came back playing more conventional. You are making a case to revisit this single plane. But right now I'm committed to Shawn Clements thought process. Your mind knows how to do this stuff we just need to know how to apply what we know to golf. I'm excited to watch how this comes out for you. Who knows you might change your approach to your game. Who knows maybe mine too.
Thanks a bunch Dean. The coming weeks will show, but pretty good so far. I'm excited to see how good it can get.
One last thing but it's very important. Moe's lead arm is really being pulled rapidly in towards his lower torso in the early backswing because you CANNOT swing around your body if there is a high degree of arm lift in the backswing. The club is far from the body at address so you must really reduce arm lift on the way back to keep the club low in both directions. This means that the lead arm must start to approach the lower torso as you turn.
Glad to see you trying something new mate...following with interest
Thanks Phillip! It's not easy to change things up, but at least it offers perspective.
Interesting can’t wait to see your progress.
Good stuff. Suggestion, why don't you just interview Todd Graves as he has spent the last 25 years studying and learning the Single plane swing. Often, directly under the tutelage of Moe Norman himself. He has also done hundreds if not thousands of videos, written two best selling books and he and his brother win just about everything they enter tournament wise.... Just an idea and thanks for bringing this to the attention of your followers.
Well, I haven't reached out to Todd directly, but I did tag him in the first few videos. He has plenty of students and is very busy I'm sure. But also, this point of view is for the DIY types, and people that want to try and decode it for themselves. That said; I've watched a boat load of Todd's videos, lol.
@@GolfTestDummy good luck, we all are working on our games and lives....
Dude I’m trying this on the range this weekend. Thanks and we’ll see.
Good luck Will!
I have been playing single plan golf for 28 years and have tried both the Graves and Junge method. I started with Natural Golf which in my opinion was a gimmick as they wanted you to buy clubs, grips, balls, etc. I have taken some of Todd's and Kirk's methods and made my own single plan swing. Looking forward to hearing about your journey.
Thanks Rick. In the off and on research I've done over the last few years, people often interpret Moe in different ways. I remember Natural Golf when it first hit. You're absolutely right.
@@GolfTestDummy So which method do you prefer, Todd or Kirk or do you need more testing to be comfortable with choosing one?
At this point, I need to identify the differences first and then try each. I'm ignorant as to what those differences are right now, and I just have a broad understanding of the single plane swing in general.
@@GolfTestDummy which grip do you use as there are a few variations.
Check out today's video that comes out at 3. 10 finger grip and I go through my grip and setup.
Just to be clear (and I hope that I'm not annoying you, but it's well intended) about the rounded back thing. I believe that our bodies adapt to patterns of motion and so you have a pattern of coming down steeply from the top and your body "knows" this. If you made your upper spine upright at address with that delivery pattern, your body knows that you would literally have trouble hitting the ball solidly so it won't let you do that. As you "convince" your body that a flatter delivery with a less closed clubface will work, it will feel safe to take some of the "hunch" out of your shoulders but lifting your head a little and letting your chest come up bit; even a few degrees in these things make a big difference. As it stands, your takeway hand position is so closed to your lead arm path that there is no way to swing the shaft back on the same plane and hold the face open enough to catch it solidly without some major body contortions. When you swing down you are fighting (quite effectively) to keep your shoulders and hips closed long enough to feel like you can square the face through impact (if you fired them right away, you would duck hook the ball). If you look at your driver swing in this video you have barely opened your hips through impact because you have to hold your body back so much (due to a longer shaft). Hence you fight early extension. The real reason that standing further from the ball has worked is not about one plane swinging, it is because you loop the club around (major cross the line) at the top with a closed clubface which makes you have to come down steeply and so being able to swing more out to the ball at the bottom gives you a better angle of attack (flatter approach) to hit the ball solidly but there is a lot of timing at the bottom to do this. All of this is why I say that you need to move your trail arm and hand in line with the intended plane and have face rotation that synchs (face up at halfway) with a flatter (one plane) swing. Shorten your swing to keep the loop (line crossing) out of it. If you retrain your body in this way, you will be able to fire your body much more directly through impact and hold the angle way better and your swing will be much more free. In summary, your biggest key to all of this is fixing your face rotation to arm path/plane relationship because you are currently majorly fighting the one that you have.
I worked on that very thing last night and found some real success. If I keep grinding it out over the next few weeks, I should have some new motion and positions retrained.
@@GolfTestDummy Well I'm glad. Some things will feel REALLY different at first but ultimately way better in the end, I believe. Keep at it. Best of Luck.
You forgot Count Yogi ( Harry M. Frankenberg 1915 to 1990) he was a great ball striker but he was more a showman, i read he could drive the ball over 400yds and did on several occasions. I use the single plane swing as Kirk Junge teaches, Kirk tried Moes style for years but modified it and came up with his "set up at impact" style, very easy to learn.
I've actually got a copy of Count Yogi's book. Amazing guy and incredible ball striker.
I have spoke with Todd Graves about the 1 plane swing. I think it does have merit if you commit to it. I still have elements of it in my swing but it’s important to get clubs especially irons that fit you with that swing. If you don’t either replace or adjust your irons it could be frustrating.
I think it’s a good method I just didn’t want to rebuild what I already do including an equipment change to do it.
That's what kept me from trying it for so long. It's likely a bell that is hard to un-ring.
@@GolfTestDummy happy you’re doing the journey though. I love when you try new ideas. I actually get a lot out of it but it’s also just fun to watch. I don’t know if this interests you but you could expand beyond full swing. Ie different putting ideas and putters. Different pitching/chipping ideas. Different course strategies like Decades or Radical Golf. You get the idea. Just a thought.
Moe Norman takes his trail hand and arm back right along the plane as the the trail shoulder moves back. The trail hand moves slightly below the plane line going back. It's more of a direct cocking movement of the arm and shoulder and the trail arm cocks quite quickly and the hand moves quite close to the body (less width than you're using). Your pre-impact and impact alignments were quite good on some of those shots but your trail side (especially hand and arm) are travelling a very round about path to get there. Shorten and tighten the trail arm and hand path and you will do even better.
Much appreciated. I'm sure I'll have lots of tweaks ahead.
@@GolfTestDummy Best of Luck
Tried it - I can do it with Driver, 3 wood and hybrid but the irons - not a chance. But I think you need the single length clubs or the lie angles have to be changed on the clubs.
Ball position in the stance is critical as well.
"Staying with it works" with any swing.
Yeah that's why I said in the video that lots of coaches use "stay with the shot". It's a good, solid all around thought. As far as the irons versus woods and why one would work and not the other, I'll learn more as the weeks progress and hopefully I can shed some light. We shall see.
I shot 4 under using this technique the only downside I felt is loss of power I definitely can hit straight good stuff
Back in your wheelhouse. I like it.
Good video, seems like you're already a pretty good golfer so for you to seem to buy in to the single plane is eye opening. I am new to single plane but it has been a godsend! I would like to know more about your golf simulator that you have to practice in. Can you share information on that?
Thanks Steve! Yeah, I have a few vids on the Garmin R10 I'm using. Check those out. Also, there are several more single plane videos, so go through and binge watch.
I wonder why don't you have single plane swing and you are coming now. I decided change my swing to single plane about week ago and today in golf courses had some wonderful shot straight to pin but some skills to be improved such as the backswing trail arm folding ... Hope can learn more from you here.
Keep watching, more coming.
After reviewing Moe Norman, Todd Graves and Kirk Junge, I decided this technique/style might be worth taking a serious look at. After all, it works for Bryson Dechambeau, right?
I'm in my early 70's so I'm thinking it might help me to play better, at this point of "Old Guy Golf" lol ... fingers crossed.
So I ordered new irons (all the same length and weight), 5 through GW ... (all irons are cut to 8 iron length).
Only been out a few times and here is what I'm working on at this point. Since all clubs are identical, I'm focusing on finding exactly where the "low point/divot" in my swing repeats. Now, with every setup being the same, I'm hoping this "Single Plane Swing" will show overall ball striking consistency and improvement.
If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to follow up with my findings.
Glad you're doing a review on this approach, Chad ... If anyone can figure this out, its you ... =)
Regards, George
Thanks George! I can tell you that finding the low point and being able to setup so that it occurs predictably is very valuable. Keep me posted on the single length irons!
@Donal Mooney … Hi Donal.
I think single length/weight irons are a great idea.
However, if I may, I would recommend getting custom fit for optimum performance.
Three things that I learned to be really helpful:
1. Proper length, followed by:
2. optimal weight.
Last but not least
3. Shaft. I would pick the shaft choice after completion of the first two steps.
Shaft flex profiles should be determined after the first two steps are locked in.
You can actually choose the flex point/profile for high, mid or low, built into the shaft.
Good luck … hope it works as good for you as it has for me.
Looking forward to how this evolves. Seems to work for Bryson.
We will find out in the coming weeks....
@@GolfTestDummy Bryson has commitment. You??
Single plane baby💪
I’m wanting to learn this method myself and have watched a lot of videos. It looks easy, then I go practice and it’s a different story lol. I’ll keep practicing because this seems like a better way to swing the club, I’ll keep watching your videos as well so maybe you can teach me a thing or two as well
It's very different from conventionally taught swings, so on the surface it seems much more difficult. But the more I mess with it, the more I realize that if you could instantly unlearn all you know about golf, this is how you'd probably set up and swing fairly naturally. The hard part is de-programing the old stuff.
Stick with it, it works.
You can "learn" the swing from Todd's videos. To apply it consistently, you must video your swing and analyze the differences between what you "feel" (think you are doing) and what is "real"(what you are actually producing). I realized quickly how poor my ability to discern and correct my errors was (and I am a career scientist with an analytical bent) so I shelled out the $$$ for a year gold membership that included unlimited expert analysis, coaching and drills. It made all the difference and was the best golf instruction I ever received. Try it on your own, but with FO and DTL videos, will you see that your hips are rotating around the spine and moving the appropriate distance and direction? The "chair drill" showed me just how obvious my problem was and how to fix it. Couldn't have done it on my own. Good luck.
@@Sueezedtight Thanks for that advice!
@Golf Test Dummy Indeed it is. Todd's work in biomechanics shows that Moe found the most efficient and repeatable way to swing to impact. Natural and not harmful (if the body is designed that way, it makes sense) Moe was unhindered by "conventional wisdom" (Relaxed 'athletic' position at address, my foot!) and responded to the body's requirements. Feeling of greatness means the way we are meant to feel whenever we do anything properly.
I have been away from golf for 25 years. Just started messing around with it again. Have looked at many different ideas on TH-cam. So do you think the is the easiest to learn and/or easiest on the body?
Whew. Those are 2 tough questions. I have only just started with it, so my perspective might not be completely formed yet. But so far, it may not be the easiest to learn, but I haven't found it too difficult yet. As far as easy on the body, I don't have any new pains, just new calluses, haha.
Have u thought about switching to one length irons?
Several times. I still might, but I'll have to wait a bit to raise some funds, haha. If I get any, it will be Cobra I think.
@@GolfTestDummy I just bought a set of Cobra F7 one length off of SidelineSwap for $270.00. If I like them I’m selling my Sim Max.
Despite the need for a slightly flatter "lie" of the club head, just use this as a yardstick. The length of the club from hosel to grip, is the distance, in stance, between your toes AND the distance from the ball at address! (About 22 in" for a PW, 26" for a 6 iron and 36" for a driver.) You can use the club you are about to hit with as a "guide" on the course (allowed by the rules of golf) and this ensures repeatability. Notwithstanding the efficiency and consistency of this swing, the #1 reason why I switched and use it now is, NO MORE BACK PAIN! I quit from 40 to 57 years of age for that reason. I played for 8 years in retirement (Like hell I wasn't going to golf in my "golden years"...) with pain that made playing more than nine holes difficult and less than enjoyable. The need for ice and pills afterward was also a problem. Now, after 2 years of SPS (a la Moe Norman thanks to Todd Graves and the GGA), my handicap is at 5 (all time low) and I outdrive ALL of my playing partners and only waste my time looking for THEIR golf balls...lol.
Haha, hallelujah! That's a great testimony to the swing if I've ever heard one.
I think Bryson DeChambeau is a perfect example of the single plane swing and he has no issues with distance - at least he appears to use a single plane. Of course he has some customer made irons with longer lengths, but he makes is works.
He does more of a modified single plane rather than strictly traditional. And I don't have any issues with that. What he's doing is changing the game if you ask me. I'm all for it.
@@GolfTestDummy So are you planning to stay with this new modified swing? I am considering it for my driver and other longer clubs, but I have worked hard to improve my iron striking so hate to muck with it. Although I do have some issues with my right hip so I might try it and see if it is less or more of a strain. I supposed with practice there is nothing wrong with having multiple swings if you can manage it.
I foresee myself staying with some form of this for a while.
Chad
Your video had me jumping up and hitting some balls the Moe way and I did for the last 3 days along with the Channel Lock protocols and I must say it’s been a good 2 good days
With what I believe is a consistent ball flight swing system CL and consistent way to deliver the club back to the ball the Moe way is like peanut butter and grape jelly 👌
If someone is not willing to look a tad different to strike the ball better …then hugely ball flights needs friends to
Looking forward to seeing more videos on this Moe way from you 👍
Hey, Chad ... how do you combine Channel Lock & Single Plane?
Good question, lol. Haven't nailed down single plane just yet and haven't tried Channel Lock. Maybe I'll be able to answer that in the future.
Is there a grip component?
Yes, for sure. In the next video I'll start breaking down the beginning stages for me and that will include the grip.
Are you using arms or body release?
I'm still finding my way at this point and trying to find what works and what doesn't for me. Right now though, I let my lower body be more of a stabilizer and let the arms release in front of me down the line until they pull me up and out.
Have you ever tried PPGS?
I'm not sure that I've heard of PPGS. I'll look it up.
@@GolfTestDummy it's a vertical swing by Don Trehan
Oh yeah! I've seen his channel. The Swing Surgeon.
I followed Moe but did he ever talk about the short game aka sand traps? Maybe he never ever missed into one!!!
🐊🏌🇵🇷🦅
Haha, it's still golf and that means, good breaks AND bad breaks. Even for Moe. But, Moe said one of his best, if not THE best part of his game was his bunker play.
@@GolfTestDummy my wife and I watched 3 hours of Moe last night the last video was with Todd Graves, his last round with Moe Norman!
I've watched that one also. Lots of great stuff.
Yeah I think it's funny that amateur golfers are concerned with distance. They'd rather bomb one 250 and put seven more OB instead of putting 9 in 10 balls down the fairway at 230. To each their own I guess.
Yep. Moe was never concerned with distance at all. I think if we get the swing right and the motions and feels that work consistently for us, the distance can come. But not before the technique is locked in.
Todd/Moes method is vastly superior to Kirks
I'll be honest that I haven't examined the differences in detail yet. I need to do that.
To me Todd is able to backup every element of the swing with biomechanics/science/3D modelling. He's really done his homework on it.
To me Kirks method still retains a lot of the old problems of the conventional golf swing. I'm not saying Kirk isn't a good golfer. He's clearly a fantastic golfer but I believe Todd/Moes method is a much simpler way to hit a golf ball
... Buckle, Sit, Slide, and Bump
Make it yor own. No one will swing exactly like anohter person. Personally i use Kirk Junges method mixed with Stack and tilt. Never hit the ball better.
Yeah, I'm not hung up on being 100 percent textbook, because honestly, there are some variations to how Moe was interpreted.
Beware of Graves Golf. They have a very bad reputation for filing lawsuits against respected pros such as Chandler Rusk who was a master instructor for them, as well as Dr. Sharon Barley, and Kirk Junge who is also very popular on TH-cam. They appear to be trying to put all other pros teaching a similar concept out of business. This is unheard of in the golf industry. If you use the words Single plane or Moe Norman they will threaten to sue you if you do not take down content. If you are teaching such a swing they may also go after you.
Hopefully not. One thing that I'd say makes me different is that I don't teach anything. I review, experiment, and share my thoughts and findings with people. Kind of like a Yelp review on steroids, haha.
What did you miss. It took Moe a Million balls. Can't short cut these things.,,,,,Maybe the swing is not as easy as being advertised. When somone on YT says "never played better" ????? Golf is not easy regardless.
Well, this was week 1 of 12. In the weeks after this, I feel like I had enough time to figure a few things out, eliminate some preconceptions in my head, and see some pretty positive results. One thing I've said in a few of these videos is that nobody will reach Moe's level. Even with 10 million balls. Moe was special. My only hope with this technique was to see noticeable and marked improvement. By the end, I'd definitely seen that.
Who cares if you look rediculous. You look rediculous when you shoot 110
Haha! Exactly right.
At last ;)
The more you understand the single plane swing the more ridiculous the conventional swing looks.
You know, even before that, lol. The entire concept is made way too complex. The laundry list of movements that are needed to make the setup work is ridiculous.
It's worth noting that towards the end of his career Moe Norman abandoned this swing in favour of the Manuel de la Torre swing. He felt it was simpler and more repeatable.
LOL...to think you can just go out on your first try and think you have mastered the single plane.... in the video you hands are still hanging down...
You may have missed something here. Near the beginning of the video, I'm pretty sure I said that I was in no way an expert, and that this was my very first attempt at making a single plane swing. Which is the opposite of saying I'd mastered it.
Explicitly forceful, swinging with body and limbs movements all over the planet. Personally, I think your golf swing looks more elegant in Jim Venetos style...Just saying
I agree that there are better looking swings for sure. But if the results after several weeks are markedly improved, that overrides everything else for me.
@@GolfTestDummy LOL Can't disagree with that...knowing that you've searching for power for years. Just make sure your muscle tension, especially your lead arm doesn't go over-stretched. BTW, classy golfing outfit on you. Cheers, enjoy!
Haha, thanks for that. The grind continues.