The extra kick might be against the rules but its pretty much widely accepted by most breaststrokers now. The only time anyone ever gets DQ'd for it is if they take the piss out of it and do like 3 or 4 kicks and make it blatantly obvious. As someone who is involved in competitive swimming, I don't think you can even call this 'cheating' at this stage. Van der burgh sugar coated that statement too. I doubt he even considered it to be an issue in all honesty.
For all you non swimmers, depending on what kind of swim race you’re doing there is a certain amount of dolphins kicks you can do and these people did more than they were supposed to.
Because they use them for the viewers not the judges? thats probably the main reason why the cameras are there, not for the judges. Otherwise you could say this about any camera at any sport, underwater or not
irondasgr No (s)he didnt say that, (s)he suggested that the only reason for the cameras underwater would be for judging fouls and that if not for judging, the cameras underwater make no sense. I’m just telling him or her that the cameras are there for another reason too, namely for the viewers to see the action there
well, here’s a small explanation. unlike freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly, your breakout (the thing you do upon starting your race and doing a flip-turn off the wall) is an underwater pullout instead of multiple fly kicks. an underwater pullout consists of diving in, pulling your arms down, one fly kick, and one breaststroke kick to get yourself up. if you were to do more than one fly kick (or if it looks like you did more than one fly kick) , you would get disqualified.
It's astonishing how the people that do do the illegal breastroke pullout don't gain anymore distance than those who didn't-just goes to show that they don't have to cheat
swimming matches????? OML FELLOW COMPETITIVE SWIMMERS ARE ALL SCRATCHING THEIR EYES OUT... no offense but I didn’t realize it wasn’t as obvious to non swimmers as it is to swimmers.
Watch the final slowed underwater heats. Watch all lanes. Multiple of them in each of those heats did the same thing. In the last video the lane 2 over from Kosuke does 5 kicks
So your telling me I get disqualified for doing 2 dolphin kicks, which I didn't even do, but these ppl can do FOUR at the OLYMPICS and get away with it.
We honestly need more swimming channels like you man. Ones that give tons of information. I hate how all the pro swimmers are so fast yet they never give new swimmers tips on how to get faster. IM TALKING REAL TIPS like "if u want to lope in free you pull wide with your non breathing side and close with your breathing side" or "looking forward will give you more pulling power and increase drag but looking down will decrease drag and power" all they say is " don't breathe off your walls" like duh we already know that stuff give us the juicy technique tips
I was at a meet and there were elite Chinese swimmers here in Australia acclimatizing. One of the breaststrokers on her glide undulated, but also did a downward butterfly kick on her glide, the whole 200 race. How on earth the judge didn't pick it up was baffling.
In other sports (where judging occurs) they use the replays (slowed down) when certain components are under review while they waiting on the scores. So why don't they use the cameras here if it's available
Yep, I'm two years late, but I'm about to say that Kitajima's dive would be illegal even today, he did an extra kick duirng diving, the same as Van der Bourgh. It hurts cuz o I love Kitajima :(
I laugh when i see non swimmer’s comment but it warms my heart that many people take interest in swimming and are trying to understand what is happening ❤
Well, I've talked about this race with him many times and he hates the fact that Darren cheated. He hates every swimmer that cheats in breaststroke breakouts because it's not fair. He did beat his PB in this race so he was happy about that (went a little under 29secs). In my opinion the only great swimmer there is in breaststroke is Adam Peaty and it's probably my swimming coaches favourite swimmer. oh and great video :D
In Mew's case, correct me if I'm wrong, it didn't seem to help him at all. It looks like the aid is minimal at best, and only if you execute the dive and kick amplitude correctly.
From a judge's perspective, these movements are very hard if not impossible to see. The judge stands above the swimmer, and he only sees the agitated waters that cover the swimmers movements to a large extend during that diving phase of the race and during turns. Video ruling is not allowed for these judges. So, yes these movements are illegal. But the judges simply could not see these movements from their position, and therefore they could not disqualify the swimmers.
When someone is swimming breaststroke you are only allowed to do one dolphin kick and one breaststroke kick to get you up after the dive or turn. In this video they did more than that which should have got them disqualified, meaning their swim would not count.
It looks like they're hiding it on the splash/disturbance of the dive as I don't see it on the turns. But FINA opened this 'floodgate' when they made it legal to do 'ONE' dolphin kick off the walls in breaststroke. I believe they were trying to make the judges life easier and less controversial. What they did was the opposite. This was just another of many rule changes that gives today's swimmers advantages over 'yesterday's' swimmers. btw: "But we should also not ignore the hard work they put in to reach their goals".... try using this argument with the PED issue!.... The problem with this is that it 'cheats' those that abide by the rules....so YES we SHOULD ignore their hard work because they CHEATED. .... maybe we should give Ben Johnson back his gold medal or Lance Armstrong his 7 yellow jerseys because of "the hard work they put in to reach their goals." Thanks for sharing this...I didn't realize so many elite breaststrokers were cheating this blatantly.
As a younger breaststroker, I've only ever swam when dolphin kicks were legal, and seeing this kind of makes me wish they weren't. On one hand I live in fear of bs dqs, but on the other hand, when you've learned something really young and done it that way your whole life, it can be hard to change. I think it's too late to go back, but I wish dolphin kicks were never made legal to begin with.
i’ve done that once lol i was swimming a 50 breaststroke and when i was diving in i wasn’t thinking and did a dolphin kick thinking i was swimming freestyle. luckily they didn’t see and i didn’t get disqualified hehe
It's cheating, plain and simple. It should be clamped down on. Or maybe the rules should change back so that no fly kicks at all should be done at the arms move to the side to make it easier to spot a cheater. It's not that hard to do. If my 7 year olds I work with can do it then surely an elite athlete has the ability to do it.
Those in charge will never allow that - as you'd have world records standing way too long (it's slower w/out the kick). They should never have allowed the kick, and just viewed the underwater "replay" to charge those who did it in the first place. However, I do believe swimming has changed many rules simply to keep the records falling and thus the viewership (at least for the Olympics) high. World Records = Ratings.
The reason why they made the rule was because it became too hard to officiate. A slight downkick is a natural motion during the pullout. If anything they'd allow a second one, but four little dolphin kicks off the start is pretty ridiculous.
I agree with the original comment and sadly it seems to have become one rule for one and one for another, I have been dqed twice in the past year for doing a lot less than this (and have seen others dqed aswell) but these guys are allowed to get away with it. They are probably much better at disguising it than I am though.
1 butterfly kick, 1 breathstroke kick, 1 pull. there's cameras watching everywhere and every angle, they will catch anything slick move you try to sneak in, and i think if they do anything more, it should be an automatic DQ. If all the swimmers do it, they all get disqualified or perhaps a more logical thing to do would be to restart the race if like 3 or more swimmers do it. this rule has been implemented since these guys were elementary schoolers and they know better.
Damn, I can’t tell the difference 🤷🏻♀️ but these guys are the most elite in this sport - why risk getting booted for something they should know. Even if you win, the judges will look at the video closely and will disqualify you - seems not worth the risk, not to mention the shame and embarrassment
Not that that's what these guys are doing, but it's also really easy to do this by accident, it's probably the number one thing even honest breaststrokers get DQed on.
The rule before 2014 wasn't very clear because the rules said that required some separation of the hands before the first dolphin kick, with this the athlets gets a ploy to get over the rule, the 2014 rule allows the dolphin kick off of each wall to happen at any point prior to the breaststroke kick, with this if they caught an athlet doing more fly kicks he get desquilified
I’m an old guy learning to swim for fitness. I wish I could figure out how to do that damn dolphin kick! I just dont have the coordination, or core strength.
I learned Butterfly at 57 and now I'm 62. I had 2 hours of lessons which emphasized the undulation of the body. I also work on lower spine flexion. You can also practice dolphin up against the pool wall. There are many drills to help with dolphin. It has improved my lower back strength (I have an L5-S1 disc that's prove to herniate). It's like a boxing speed bag or violin vibrato: only spend about 10 minutes per session doing it so you won't get angry or depressed. It just takes time and little improvements. Once you get it, you'll be amazed at the power of dolphin versus flutter. Don't give up.
Adam Stępień during breaststroke you’re allowed to do a “pullout” it consists of pulling your arms to your sides with a dolphin kick and then putting your hands forward with a breaststroke kick. You are only allowed to do 1 though, all of them were doing multiple.
No - just Van Den Burgh (obvious) and maybe Scozzoli (less obvious). The guy next to them on the top part of the video is not doing anything wrong, dives in, and does a single dolphin kick (allowed in 2012). The other two did more than 1. The silver medallist (Sprenger) did not do any illegal kicks to my knowledge and from what I see in videos. He could have won gold hadn't Van Den Burgh cheated.
Lol for everyone who is asking what is happening, when your doing a breaststroke pullout (the underwater dive the video was showing) your only supposed to take 1 dolphin kick and that’s it. Many of the people in this video were taking multiple instead of just one and as a result they SHOULD HAVE been disqualified.
0:00 3 Swimmers who did ILLEGAL BREASTSTROKE PULLOUT 규칙에 어긋난 평영 당겨 나오기를 한 수영 선수 세 명 3 0:14 cameron van der burgh.[RSA] London olympics 2012 100m breaststroke. 카메런 판 더 버흐. [남아프리카 공화국] 2012년 런던 올림픽 평영 100m. 0:19 He told the Sydney Morning Herald that he took extra kicks, but defends himself by insisting he's not the only one. "If you're not doing it, you're falling behind," he said. "It's not obviously - shall we say - the moral thing to do, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my personal performance and four years of hard work for someone that is willing to do it and get away with it." 그는 시드니 모닝 헤럴드와의 기자회견에서 자신이 더 찼다고 하지만 혼자만 그런 것은 아니라고 주장하며 자신을 변호했습니다. "그렇게 하지 않으면, 뒤처지게 됩니다, " 그가 말했습니다. "굳이 말하자면, 그 짓은 분명 도의에 어긋납니다, 그렇지만 기꺼이 그 짓을 해서 승리를 빼앗아 갈 누군가를 위해서, 제 자신의 수행 능력과 4 년 간의 고된 노력을 희생하고 싶지는 않습니다." 0:33 *scozzoli too *스코졸리도 마찬가지네요 2 0:53 Darren mew.[ENG] Melbourne commonwealth games 2006 50m breaststroke 대런 뮤. [잉글랜드] 멜번 영연방공동체 경기 2006 평영 50m 1:00 Darren mew was seen doing 4 illegal fly kicks during the pullout in the 50m breast. He did the same thing in the 100m breaststroke and was not disqualified. 평영 50m 당겨 나오기에서 대런 뮤가 규칙에 어긋나는 접영 차기를 4회 하는 것이 목격되었습니다. 평영 100m에서도 똑같은 짓을 했습니다 하지만 실격하지 않았습니다. 1 1:41 kosuke kitajima.[JPN] Athens olympics 2004 100m breaststroke 고스께 기타지마. [일본] 2004년 아테네 올림픽 평영 100m 1:47 *No fly kicks were allowed during pullout in 2004. *2004년에는 당겨 나오는 동안 접영 차기는 허용되지 않았습니다. 1:50 Kosuke Kitajima routinely added rogue kicks underwater. When swimmers push off a wall and tighten into a streamline, their legs can arch slightly and resemble a kick. Kitajima and others tried to make this natural movement into an advantage by adding some force behind it. It was illegal and the move angered rivals, like American Brendan Hansen. But the kick was tough to enforce, so FINA changed the rule to allow it. 고스께 기타지마는 일상적으로 물속에서 규칙에 어긋나는 차기를 더했습니다. 수영선수가 벽을 밀고 나와 몸을 조이면서 흐름선 자세로 돌입할 때, 두 다리는 약간 젖혀지게 되고 이는 차는 모양을 닮았습니다. 기타지마와 여러 선수들은 그 뒤에 약간의 힘을 더하여 이 자연적인 움직임을 이용하려 했습니다. 이것은 규칙에 어긋났으며, 미국의 브렌던 핸슨과 같은 경쟁자들을 화나게 했습니다. 그렇지만 그 차기를 금지하는 것이 어려웠습니다, 그래서 국제수영연맹은 한 번의 접영 차기를 허용하도록 규정을 바꿨습니다.
Are these really old videos? I doubt that would happen now. People got DQed for these in national age group competitions, I'm sure Olympics would have even stricter standards now.
You forgot Felipe Alves at the Shangai world swimming championships, he did a dolphin kick at the very end to out touch his rivals in the 50m breaststroke.
I used to be a swimmer and at the time when I was swimming, that was illegal to do, you´re only allowed to do a dolphin kick while you´re underwater in breaststroke.
Socrates Mahfood the breaststroke is a stroke that demands much power. Going to the gym would definitely benefit your performance but overdoing it would be detrimental. But then again the feel for the water is much more important than being big and strong. First you need to learn how to kick and pull effectively and find out which position propels you most in the water
unlike freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly, your breakout (the thing you do upon starting your race and doing a flip-turn off the wall) is an underwater pullout instead of multiple fly kicks. an underwater pullout consists of diving in, pulling your arms down, one fly kick, and one breaststroke kick to get yourself up. if you were to do more than one fly kick (or if it looks like you did more than one fly kick) , you would get disqualified.
well its not a natural movement as we are not fish... I personally don't know why breaststrokers can only do 2 dolphin kick but its the rule and if you train you should be able to just do one but I think that the olmypics needs to stop being lazy asses and catch these illegal pullouts so people don't have to cheat to win even though its not entirely there fault because its true that many people cheat and don't get caught
Pro Genji Because in swimming, there are 4 major strokes(styles). You HAVE to use the stroke that the race is about, otherwise you are cheating. This video is about breaststroke, which is the slowest strike, so people try to gain an unfair advantage by using the dolphin kick from butterfly. It’s just like martial arts. Would you not think it’s unfair if a boxer starts kicking his opponent?
@SwimStrength "But we should also not ignore the hard work they put in to reach their goals". Well not really. Everyone worked extremely hard and it is devastating when somebody respects the rules and does not swim as fast as the others who broke the rules. One word to define these swimmers: cheaters. This is cheating. They are just getting away with it.
At 2:13 you see the first person does more kicks at the beginning but if you see further down the line there is another swimmer which is also doing extra kicks
bruh my coach scolded me for doing tWO during our training bc everytime i dive my legs kinda bend and she mentioned that its already a dolphin kick AND THEY,,, WHO GET TO GO TO COMPETE,,, can get away w it ?
The rules restrict movement in breaststroke, the turn is the slowest of all styles, you stop at the wall. when in other types they do somersaults ... 3:17 you can evaluate the touch with two hands in different ways - th-cam.com/video/3o7I0FxFNeQ/w-d-xo.html
I think they shoulkd allow one dolpinstroke at the end ofevery breaststroke. Its so common and it makes no sense to ban it. Swimming used to evolve constantly and it sucks that we block it. Its still in the spirit of breaststroke
Do you agree with Cameron's statement ?comment down below what video should i make next.
SwimStrength Same what rishabh told
Peaty shut up his mouth
The extra kick might be against the rules but its pretty much widely accepted by most breaststrokers now. The only time anyone ever gets DQ'd for it is if they take the piss out of it and do like 3 or 4 kicks and make it blatantly obvious. As someone who is involved in competitive swimming, I don't think you can even call this 'cheating' at this stage. Van der burgh sugar coated that statement too. I doubt he even considered it to be an issue in all honesty.
Yeah true. Though in fairness to the judges the kick is very well disguised from their view on poolside.
No!!
For all you non swimmers, depending on what kind of swim race you’re doing there is a certain amount of dolphins kicks you can do and these people did more than they were supposed to.
Thx
"so posed"
@@runa9306 ?
@@OwenTrice oh wait did u mean "so posed", or "supposed", I thought it was a typo lol
@@runa9306 I don’t even know lol
So they can do 4 dolphin kicks at the olympics and get away with it, but I do 2 in a high school meet and get disqualified?? 🙄
😂 but try harder for your further success
No
🤷♀️
Do 1 only.
trueee
Why have the cameras underwater if they’re not going to use them to enforce the rules?
Nae S. To show viewers the technique so they can learn.
So true
Because they use them for the viewers not the judges? thats probably the main reason why the cameras are there, not for the judges. Otherwise you could say this about any camera at any sport, underwater or not
KingArthur8 That's what (s)he says. Why not use them for the judges? Especially for them. And for the rest you write, exactly! Where is the problem?
irondasgr No (s)he didnt say that, (s)he suggested that the only reason for the cameras underwater would be for judging fouls and that if not for judging, the cameras underwater make no sense. I’m just telling him or her that the cameras are there for another reason too, namely for the viewers to see the action there
Non swimmers be clicking on this vid without knowing what they're watching and commenting nonsense
whyre you an elitist
Samuel Hong ?
Bruh the dude did 4 I did 2 and I got dqed in Zones too :(
Lol Best comment , Dis Non athletic guys dont know #hit
Gatekeeper be like
Is there anybody who dont have any idea what they doing hahahaha look like normal swimming
I do cos I'm a swimmer
44 HoodBoy 42 Idk
44 HoodBoy 42 lol they did a two big kicks basically and your not allowed to do any kick beside breast on breaststroke or you will get a dq
44 HoodBoy 42 One fly kick allowed during or after the pull down of arms in underwater phase. Rules are strict.
Cassandre Gagnon wait srsly you can do 2?? Everyone I’ve seen gets dq’d after 1
lmao I have no idea what is happening
well, here’s a small explanation. unlike freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly, your breakout (the thing you do upon starting your race and doing a flip-turn off the wall) is an underwater pullout instead of multiple fly kicks. an underwater pullout consists of diving in, pulling your arms down, one fly kick, and one breaststroke kick to get yourself up. if you were to do more than one fly kick (or if it looks like you did more than one fly kick) , you would get disqualified.
you are actually the man, i actually get it now no joke
Imagine.aep ty man :)
thanks . learn something new
@@aerious1688 that wiggly thingy?
It's astonishing how the people that do do the illegal breastroke pullout don't gain anymore distance than those who didn't-just goes to show that they don't have to cheat
Duh??!! If they didn't do it, they will be left behind.
Tari-Starre Michael that’s just the angle they gain a lot of speed and distance
it’s more about momentum
They are no trying to cheat in my meets I did a illegal stroke not because I am cheating
Yeah i mean two of the swimmers shown have won the olympics.... lol
These are so obvious how is everyone getting away with this
Wait. Youre not allowed to swim in swimming matches
😂
swimming matches????? OML FELLOW COMPETITIVE SWIMMERS ARE ALL SCRATCHING THEIR EYES OUT... no offense but I didn’t realize it wasn’t as obvious to non swimmers as it is to swimmers.
*swimming games bro c'mon
Crux 11 I thought it was swimming battles??
@@capcaw no its swimming showdown
Look at guy 2 lines from kosuke kitajima.. he is doing same thing
Watch the final slowed underwater heats. Watch all lanes. Multiple of them in each of those heats did the same thing. In the last video the lane 2 over from Kosuke does 5 kicks
So your telling me I get disqualified for doing 2 dolphin kicks, which I didn't even do, but these ppl can do FOUR at the OLYMPICS and get away with it.
We honestly need more swimming channels like you man. Ones that give tons of information. I hate how all the pro swimmers are so fast yet they never give new swimmers tips on how to get faster. IM TALKING REAL TIPS like "if u want to lope in free you pull wide with your non breathing side and close with your breathing side" or "looking forward will give you more pulling power and increase drag but looking down will decrease drag and power" all they say is " don't breathe off your walls" like duh we already know that stuff give us the juicy technique tips
looking forward does not give you more pulling power
These are bad tips lol. And if you worked your underwaters like they tell you to then you'll get much faster than these "tips".
I would literally die if I did that
Actually my coach would kill me first
I was at a meet and there were elite Chinese swimmers here in Australia acclimatizing. One of the breaststrokers on her glide undulated, but also did a downward butterfly kick on her glide, the whole 200 race. How on earth the judge didn't pick it up was baffling.
In other sports (where judging occurs) they use the replays (slowed down) when certain components are under review while they waiting on the scores. So why don't they use the cameras here if it's available
Even though breaststroke is my least favorite stroke, I’m watching this for some reason ;-;
How did they not see the 2 one lol
why am I watching this i don't even know what a breaststroke pullout is
damn
Yep, I'm two years late, but I'm about to say that Kitajima's dive would be illegal even today, he did an extra kick duirng diving, the same as Van der Bourgh. It hurts cuz o I love Kitajima :(
I laugh when i see non swimmer’s comment but it warms my heart that many people take interest in swimming and are trying to understand what is happening ❤
My swimming coach is in the second vid, Ross Clark (lane 1)
Rafael Mary-Rispal please ask him what are his thoughts about this.
Well, I've talked about this race with him many times and he hates the fact that Darren cheated. He hates every swimmer that cheats in breaststroke breakouts because it's not fair. He did beat his PB in this race so he was happy about that (went a little under 29secs). In my opinion the only great swimmer there is in breaststroke is Adam Peaty and it's probably my swimming coaches favourite swimmer. oh and great video :D
Rafael Mary-Rispal thank you so much.
with pleasure.
In Mew's case, correct me if I'm wrong, it didn't seem to help him at all. It looks like the aid is minimal at best, and only if you execute the dive and kick amplitude correctly.
MrVpassenheim True.
Look at his arms during his pullout - very wide and suboptimal...better to have them narrower and closer to your body for the most force.
Lol I take extra kicks all the time but only by I forget what stroke I’m doing😂
From a judge's perspective, these movements are very hard if not impossible to see. The judge stands above the swimmer, and he only sees the agitated waters that cover the swimmers movements to a large extend during that diving phase of the race and during turns. Video ruling is not allowed for these judges. So, yes these movements are illegal. But the judges simply could not see these movements from their position, and therefore they could not disqualify the swimmers.
Then what do they have underwater cameras for?
i have no idea what its all about
When someone is swimming breaststroke you are only allowed to do one dolphin kick and one breaststroke kick to get you up after the dive or turn. In this video they did more than that which should have got them disqualified, meaning their swim would not count.
The people in this vid did too many kicks after they dove which made them have an advantage
I love the clickbait becuase it's actually in the video
Xanoot POOT that means it's not a clickbait ;)
SwimStrength ohhhhhhh true tho
Xanoot POOT it's called thumbnail
Xanoot POOT lr majin vegeta
It looks like they're hiding it on the splash/disturbance of the dive as I don't see it on the turns. But FINA opened this 'floodgate' when they made it legal to do 'ONE' dolphin kick off the walls in breaststroke. I believe they were trying to make the judges life easier and less controversial. What they did was the opposite. This was just another of many rule changes that gives today's swimmers advantages over 'yesterday's' swimmers. btw: "But we should also not ignore the hard work they put in to reach their goals".... try using this argument with the PED issue!.... The problem with this is that it 'cheats' those that abide by the rules....so YES we SHOULD ignore their hard work because they CHEATED. .... maybe we should give Ben Johnson back his gold medal or Lance Armstrong his 7 yellow jerseys because of "the hard work they put in to reach their goals." Thanks for sharing this...I didn't realize so many elite breaststrokers were cheating this blatantly.
Yeah I agree with you brother.
As a younger breaststroker, I've only ever swam when dolphin kicks were legal, and seeing this kind of makes me wish they weren't. On one hand I live in fear of bs dqs, but on the other hand, when you've learned something really young and done it that way your whole life, it can be hard to change. I think it's too late to go back, but I wish dolphin kicks were never made legal to begin with.
Maybe they just forgot for a second that they were in a breaststroke race but then realized and was like "o shoot"
i’ve done that once lol i was swimming a 50 breaststroke and when i was diving in i wasn’t thinking and did a dolphin kick thinking i was swimming freestyle. luckily they didn’t see and i didn’t get disqualified hehe
Non swimmers be like: “all I see is them swimming”
Cody Miller did the same thing in Rio.
th-cam.com/video/YsGHSe6N06w/w-d-xo.html
0:09
Thankyou I didn't notice that before ;)
Also some dude who won gold medal at the SEA games, 50m breaststroke
Not more than one
cbass there’s now a rule in wiaa that says 2, I don’t know for any other place
Even though I can't tell the difference, Im now very nervous because I'm on the way to a swim meet and I have 50m breaststroke and 100m
I'm not a swimmer, but why are these kicks illegal? What is the purpose of such rules
As a swimmer, I personally think it’s just another excuse for officials to get u disqualified.
hey make a video about swimmers who didn't have enough facilities and now they are world champions or Olympic champions
Rishabh you mean me?
GY Teh 😂😂
Eric Mousanbani intensifies
What the...1:23 that is like full fledged dolphin getting ready to launch into fly! lol
1:33 total internal reflection 🤓
JEE aspirant spotted xD!!!
adding the dolphin kick to the pullout has ruined this already awkward stroke
It's cheating, plain and simple. It should be clamped down on. Or maybe the rules should change back so that no fly kicks at all should be done at the arms move to the side to make it easier to spot a cheater. It's not that hard to do. If my 7 year olds I work with can do it then surely an elite athlete has the ability to do it.
Those in charge will never allow that - as you'd have world records standing way too long (it's slower w/out the kick). They should never have allowed the kick, and just viewed the underwater "replay" to charge those who did it in the first place. However, I do believe swimming has changed many rules simply to keep the records falling and thus the viewership (at least for the Olympics) high. World Records = Ratings.
The reason why they made the rule was because it became too hard to officiate. A slight downkick is a natural motion during the pullout. If anything they'd allow a second one, but four little dolphin kicks off the start is pretty ridiculous.
The Purselmer I agree 100%
I agree with the original comment and sadly it seems to have become one rule for one and one for another, I have been dqed twice in the past year for doing a lot less than this (and have seen others dqed aswell) but these guys are allowed to get away with it. They are probably much better at disguising it than I am though.
1 butterfly kick, 1 breathstroke kick, 1 pull. there's cameras watching everywhere and every angle, they will catch anything slick move you try to sneak in, and i think if they do anything more, it should be an automatic DQ. If all the swimmers do it, they all get disqualified or perhaps a more logical thing to do would be to restart the race if like 3 or more swimmers do it. this rule has been implemented since these guys were elementary schoolers and they know better.
No clue what I'm looking at.... Maybe if they show it down I can tell...
*Slow motion*
Yeah still no clue
Damn, I can’t tell the difference 🤷🏻♀️ but these guys are the most elite in this sport - why risk getting booted for something they should know. Even if you win, the judges will look at the video closely and will disqualify you - seems not worth the risk, not to mention the shame and embarrassment
well said, but they get away with it most of time
Not that that's what these guys are doing, but it's also really easy to do this by accident, it's probably the number one thing even honest breaststrokers get DQed on.
The rule before 2014 wasn't very clear because the rules said that required some separation of the hands before the first dolphin kick, with this the athlets gets a ploy to get over the rule, the 2014 rule allows the dolphin kick off of each wall to happen at any point prior to the breaststroke kick, with this if they caught an athlet doing more fly kicks he get desquilified
The first one actually puts the dude at the disadvantage considering he did it when he was around 2-1 seconds in the water creating more drag.
Who else has no idea what is going on?
In breaststroke you cant do mor than 1 dolfin kick
I’m an old guy learning to swim for fitness. I wish I could figure out how to do that damn dolphin kick! I just dont have the coordination, or core strength.
I learned Butterfly at 57 and now I'm 62. I had 2 hours of lessons which emphasized the undulation of the body. I also work on lower spine flexion. You can also practice dolphin up against the pool wall. There are many drills to help with dolphin. It has improved my lower back strength (I have an L5-S1 disc that's prove to herniate). It's like a boxing speed bag or violin vibrato: only spend about 10 minutes per session doing it so you won't get angry or depressed. It just takes time and little improvements. Once you get it, you'll be amazed at the power of dolphin versus flutter. Don't give up.
I wish I could see or understand the mistakes but I am no swimmer but love watching the race.
I dont know anything about swimming
Can someone explain what they're doing illegal?
Adam Stępień during breaststroke you’re allowed to do a “pullout” it consists of pulling your arms to your sides with a dolphin kick and then putting your hands forward with a breaststroke kick. You are only allowed to do 1 though, all of them were doing multiple.
And for the most part trying to use the splash created during the dive to mask it
Adam Stępień a legal pull out is one breastroke pull and one kick and one fly kick. For it to be illegal they probably did two of something
Funny to see the guy take 4 dolphin kicks then proceed with a 0/10 breakout
In 0:56 was the greatest swimming dance for Darren Mew.
I know a guy who did the regular underwater fly kicks on a breaststroke event.
He forgot that he was swimming breaststroke.
At 2:21 you can see someone else in one of the middle lanes making more obvious kicks
I cant believe they let that slide. I am a swimmer. You can only do a certain amount of kicks and they surpassed that
Why would you make the text color black with that background? That should be illegal.
and im here, the guy who can only swims 5ft pools
No clue what’s going on. And I swam three years in high school.
I understand that he did because when you dive in, the splash you make gives you a chance to cheat. But like still doesn't mean he should've
During breaststroke pull out a swimmer is allowed only one dolphin kick.
this was decided after this race!
DARREN MEW IS MY SWIM COACH!
Ask him why did he cheat?
It looked like all three guys you can see in the first clip did it.
No - just Van Den Burgh (obvious) and maybe Scozzoli (less obvious). The guy next to them on the top part of the video is not doing anything wrong, dives in, and does a single dolphin kick (allowed in 2012). The other two did more than 1. The silver medallist (Sprenger) did not do any illegal kicks to my knowledge and from what I see in videos. He could have won gold hadn't Van Den Burgh cheated.
Meanwhile..
I don’t even know how to swim HAHAHAHA lol that’s true tho lol
me too
Haha me too
They both took extra kicks
idk why so many ppl are complicating this, it’s simple😭 in breast stroke, you can’t do more than one dolphin kick when you start that’s it
2:29 Camera is focused on Kitajima but 3 lines down you can see swimmer doing 2 kicks after start and one kick like Kitajima (but more obvious)
Lol for everyone who is asking what is happening, when your doing a breaststroke pullout (the underwater dive the video was showing) your only supposed to take 1 dolphin kick and that’s it. Many of the people in this video were taking multiple instead of just one and as a result they SHOULD HAVE been disqualified.
こういう不正をしてもなお誰もPEATYの記録に届けないのヤバいな
This is a naïve question, but why don't they just allow the kicks? The greater part of the race still involves the breaststroke.
"But we should also not ignore the hard work they put in to reach their goals." Huh????
C'mon man.
Its their fault they do more than 1 kick
What song is this pls let me know
I can’t even read the text, it’s too dark, too fast, and when I pause to read it it’s covered by the play button
If you don’t understand, you can only do one dolphin kick… I think, but he did Mote than he was supposed do. You do a dolphin kick then your pull down
0:00
3 Swimmers who did ILLEGAL BREASTSTROKE PULLOUT
규칙에 어긋난 평영 당겨 나오기를 한 수영 선수 세 명
3
0:14
cameron van der burgh.[RSA]
London olympics 2012
100m breaststroke.
카메런 판 더 버흐. [남아프리카 공화국]
2012년 런던 올림픽
평영 100m.
0:19
He told the Sydney Morning Herald that he took extra kicks, but defends himself by insisting he's not the only one.
"If you're not doing it, you're falling behind," he said.
"It's not obviously - shall we say - the moral thing to do, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my personal performance and four years of hard work for someone that is willing to do it and get away with it."
그는 시드니 모닝 헤럴드와의 기자회견에서 자신이 더 찼다고 하지만 혼자만 그런 것은 아니라고 주장하며 자신을 변호했습니다.
"그렇게 하지 않으면, 뒤처지게 됩니다, " 그가 말했습니다.
"굳이 말하자면, 그 짓은 분명 도의에 어긋납니다, 그렇지만 기꺼이 그 짓을 해서 승리를 빼앗아 갈 누군가를 위해서, 제 자신의 수행 능력과 4 년 간의 고된 노력을 희생하고 싶지는 않습니다."
0:33
*scozzoli too
*스코졸리도 마찬가지네요
2
0:53
Darren mew.[ENG]
Melbourne commonwealth games 2006
50m breaststroke
대런 뮤. [잉글랜드]
멜번 영연방공동체 경기 2006
평영 50m
1:00
Darren mew was seen doing 4 illegal fly kicks during the pullout in the 50m breast. He did the same thing in the 100m breaststroke and was not disqualified.
평영 50m 당겨 나오기에서 대런 뮤가 규칙에 어긋나는 접영 차기를 4회 하는 것이 목격되었습니다. 평영 100m에서도 똑같은 짓을 했습니다 하지만 실격하지 않았습니다.
1
1:41
kosuke kitajima.[JPN]
Athens olympics 2004
100m breaststroke
고스께 기타지마. [일본]
2004년 아테네 올림픽
평영 100m
1:47
*No fly kicks were
allowed during pullout
in 2004.
*2004년에는 당겨 나오는 동안 접영 차기는 허용되지 않았습니다.
1:50
Kosuke Kitajima routinely added rogue kicks underwater.
When swimmers push off a wall and tighten into a streamline, their legs can arch slightly and resemble a kick. Kitajima and others tried to make this natural movement into an advantage by adding some force behind it. It was illegal and the move angered rivals, like American Brendan Hansen. But the kick was tough to enforce, so FINA changed the rule to allow it.
고스께 기타지마는 일상적으로 물속에서 규칙에 어긋나는 차기를 더했습니다.
수영선수가 벽을 밀고 나와 몸을 조이면서 흐름선 자세로 돌입할 때, 두 다리는 약간 젖혀지게 되고 이는 차는 모양을 닮았습니다. 기타지마와 여러 선수들은 그 뒤에 약간의 힘을 더하여 이 자연적인 움직임을 이용하려 했습니다. 이것은 규칙에 어긋났으며, 미국의 브렌던 핸슨과 같은 경쟁자들을 화나게 했습니다. 그렇지만 그 차기를 금지하는 것이 어려웠습니다, 그래서 국제수영연맹은 한 번의 접영 차기를 허용하도록 규정을 바꿨습니다.
Does anyone else only see the dude swimming like a normal human being?
Are these really old videos? I doubt that would happen now. People got DQed for these in national age group competitions, I'm sure Olympics would have even stricter standards now.
You forgot Felipe Alves at the Shangai world swimming championships, he did a dolphin kick at the very end to out touch his rivals in the 50m breaststroke.
Yup I remember but I think that is legal,at the finish.
I used to be a swimmer and at the time when I was swimming, that was illegal to do, you´re only allowed to do a dolphin kick while you´re underwater in breaststroke.
How important going to gym could be for the breaststroke?
Can you please cover this topic one day?
Socrates Mahfood the breaststroke is a stroke that demands much power. Going to the gym would definitely benefit your performance but overdoing it would be detrimental. But then again the feel for the water is much more important than being big and strong. First you need to learn how to kick and pull effectively and find out which position propels you most in the water
Thank you very much, that was really helpful.
Why is this illegal? It’s natural movement that makes you faster, so why is it frowned upon?
unlike freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly, your breakout (the thing you do upon starting your race and doing a flip-turn off the wall) is an underwater pullout instead of multiple fly kicks. an underwater pullout consists of diving in, pulling your arms down, one fly kick, and one breaststroke kick to get yourself up. if you were to do more than one fly kick (or if it looks like you did more than one fly kick) , you would get disqualified.
cause its in the rules. if someone does it and the others don't, they would have an unfair advantage
This has got to be the most futile response i've ever read the entire interwebz.. OF COURSE IT'S IN THE RULES SHIT BRAINS.
well its not a natural movement as we are not fish... I personally don't know why breaststrokers can only do 2 dolphin kick but its the rule and if you train you should be able to just do one but I think that the olmypics needs to stop being lazy asses and catch these illegal pullouts so people don't have to cheat to win even though its not entirely there fault because its true that many people cheat and don't get caught
Pro Genji Because in swimming, there are 4 major strokes(styles). You HAVE to use the stroke that the race is about, otherwise you are cheating. This video is about breaststroke, which is the slowest strike, so people try to gain an unfair advantage by using the dolphin kick from butterfly. It’s just like martial arts. Would you not think it’s unfair if a boxer starts kicking his opponent?
To be honest, I see the same thing among all the other swimmers. Lol
I totally agree with you
lmh hayson Guess we aren’t cut out for competitive Swimming my friend
北島盛大にやらかしてて草
Did the first one get disqualified
@SwimStrength "But we should also not ignore the hard work they put in to reach their goals". Well not really. Everyone worked extremely hard and it is devastating when somebody respects the rules and does not swim as fast as the others who broke the rules. One word to define these swimmers: cheaters. This is cheating. They are just getting away with it.
At 2:13 you see the first person does more kicks at the beginning but if you see further down the line there is another swimmer which is also doing extra kicks
I hate sport and yet I've somehow made it here
this video just infuriated me 😂
Checked fina rules 2017-2021 one fly kick allowed after the start but before the Breaststroke kick initiates.
If you gotta pullout, you gotta pullout...
I don’t know swimming so don’t attack me, but why is it illegal?
what's breastroking? does breastroking have negative effects?
It's a form of swimming
Why the hell am I watching this at 11:42 PM
Edit: why wouldn’t I??
I'm watching at 11:17PM
bruh my coach scolded me for doing tWO during our training bc everytime i dive my legs kinda bend and she mentioned that its already a dolphin kick AND THEY,,, WHO GET TO GO TO COMPETE,,, can get away w it ?
The rules restrict movement in breaststroke, the turn is the slowest of all styles, you stop at the wall. when in other types they do somersaults ... 3:17 you can evaluate the touch with two hands in different ways - th-cam.com/video/3o7I0FxFNeQ/w-d-xo.html
Does that mean Swimming like a Siren? A Fishwoman?
In the background of the last one there’s a guy who did the same exact thing like two lanes over
Doing my J1 officials course ( swim England ) in June perhaps we can clarify and put this question to rest.
I think they shoulkd allow one dolpinstroke at the end ofevery breaststroke. Its so common and it makes no sense to ban it. Swimming used to evolve constantly and it sucks that we block it. Its still in the spirit of breaststroke
And that’s why I got disqualified last time………😂
OMG thx fir the heart!!!!
You are welcome 😍
What's wrong? I dont really know anything about the swimming rules, so what is he doing wrong and why is this not fair?
They aren’t allowed to do more than 1 dolphin kick underwater.
How he do 4 illegal kicks and still not be ahead of the swimmers besides him 😂
These are things only a swimmer would understand xD
Does anyone know the name of the song?
T-mass - ignoring my heart