@57 sure but they massacred Bardock with his redesign not only is his armor super basic now he is not Saiyan like and now the canon is that Goku went to earth because Bardock just had a bad feeling instead of being ambushed by frieza soldiers thus learning about the plan to destroy the saiyans
This retcon creates a massive plot hole for the series. Goku was originally sent to earth to wipe out it's population so the Saiyans could sell the planet. If Goku was sent to Earth now to escape from Frieza then Raditz never would have came to Earth to check on Kakarot's progress. Raditz never would have told Nappa and Vegeta about the dragon balls and Dragon Ball Z never would have happened.
Raditz and Vegeta were still young when Goku was sent to Earth. Raditz could have been raised on the original purpose of the Saiyans, not knowing what Frieza did. Also, didn't Raditz originally believe a giant comet destroyed Planet Vegeta?
Excellent point!!! I saw the film just a few days ago and other than not liking the softer portrayal of the Saiyans, I knew there was something else that irked me that I couldn't yet recognize.
+Kinoksis I get the reference, but careful, we might get that wish... I mean Bardock already willingly sent Goku to Earth, so all that's missing is him being a scientist.
Akita toriyama probably doesn’t even remember much of bardock let alone his own original manga. Sure it’s been more than 20 years, but he’s notoriously bad at remembering his own stuff. He forgot all about super saiyan 2 before, and if you read some of his interviews it can get so awkward how much he’s forgotten.
Yeah but he could definitely review bardock and watch the specials but instead he changed his personality and what made him unique in his character portrayal. R.i.p O.G bardock
Pz video art agreed, then again he’s already messed with so much like making the potara have time limit when he could have made bulma create one with a time limit or something. Or how the tingling sensation in your back transforms into super saiyan. He could think up a more reasonable method. It’s like he’s trying to see just how far he can take things.
Is not that he doesn't remember, is that at the time "Bardock" wasn't his. So, he decided he wanted to tell the story on it's own terms, I think there's an interview or special messege where he says this.
It's ok don't bash him if it wasn't for him Dragon ball never would of exists. Give the guy props for coming back making are favorite series and movies well to be honest to me it's my fav anime. I don't like how they changed the storyline either it's ruined. But it's ok can't wait to watch it
Original Bardock: Portrayed Sayains perfectly as they were made to be violent, aggressive, and loved fighting Minus Bardock: Caring and the complete opposite of the saiyans that were portayed (except Goku because of his head) In my own opinion prefer the bardock special wayyyy better
Then Bardock hit his own head while Gine was pregnant with Kakarot and became a wonderful, and carrying father. Gine did say that a father should not be carrying about his own children so much. But he replied that he would like to save a life like Kakarot even if he is in the low class.
@@karinatinoco887 I know I'm late but if you look alot of the sayains in the broly movie do not seem violent at all dude they turned alot of the sayains into much softer people
Lol Pop Exactly, everything you know about db is a lie... this isn't the same series it's just the same characters for marketing purposes, they turned db into a cash cow and forgot about it's fans.... But since this is a new anime I advise people to watch DB, DBZ, and DBGT (non Canon but better than this B's) if you're interested in the best anime to ever be made
😂😂😂 man anything is possible the worst thing is they cant bring back lunch but they can bring back fucking pilaf gang and potray them as saints man goku they were the reason why your master and krillin was killed in dragon ball by king picolo 😂😂
My biggest gripe with Minus is that it doesn't just retcon the manga but it undercuts everything Goku has ever achieved. It literally turns his origin into Superman. Which is funny because Toriyama said he didn't like how the anime portrayed Goku as too heroic but you turn his origin into the man that is all truth and justice everywhere. Instead of Goku being sent to earth to destroy it he was sent there to live a peaceful life. Then there's the fact that roshi CLEARLY said that Gohan found a BABY in the wilderness. Does Goku look like a baby in that scene? Or how about the fact that Gine says "I'll tell raditz what's going on" that clearly doesn't happen now does it. Thematically DB should have ended years ago.
There’s also the kind of big thing about Goku not knowing about the saiyans and not knowing he had a brother. If he went to earth when he was 3, then he should’ve thought that Raditz was at least familiar.
In Japanese different names for 'baby' and 'toddler' are not used. People call both babies and toddlers 'baby' here. That part can be explained without stretching as a simple mistranslation of the original manga.
Eptalin Doesn’t matter at all. We could clearly see as roshi explained when we see Goku at his youngest in dragonball Z, he is an infant who grew into a rotten child until he hit his head. If he were to of arrived on earth and made it to the age of ~ 5 raditz has already confirmed there would of been no earth. Saiyan children were strong enough to wipe out the weaker planets which was why goku had been sent (until we heard of bardock) Bardock improved upon this story because there was a valid reason why he didn’t destroy the earth as a child, He was sent far too early. And thus the fans loved it and him.
Game Inspection okay, first of all, Toriyama said he didn’t like how Z portrayed Goku as heroic because Goku at his core is just guy who cares about fighting. It doesn’t matter his reasoning for being seen to earth, at heart, he’s still a Saiyan that cares about battle. He and Superman being sent off from a planet that’s about to be destroyed is where the comparison starts and ends. Also, the Japanese have different phrases then folks in North America. Technically speaking, a child can be referred to as baby from birth to age 4. And what about what Gine says? Pretty sure she was waiting for Raditz to come back, so she could tell him about Kakarot, but obviously, they all died before he could make it back.
Classic Bardock is the only version that I’ll accept, however if they keep some of his old personality intact and his rebellion against Freiza then I can live with this change.
Crazy Platinum I can handle him being more sympathetic, but stripping out his rebellion doesn’t sit well with me. To be honest I don’t think I’ll ever get used to this version, but hopefully the rest of the movie will be awesome.
I like this Bardock more, but I see where you're coming from. If the revolt isn't in this and he's a COMPLETE good guy, I'd be done. I don't mind him caring for his family but he shouldn't be a good guy like the Z fighters. Make him like Bardock from the special EXCEPT he has a soft spot for and cares for his family and comrades and keep the revolt. That would be fantastic.
Nothing Special him caring for his family makes zero sense though toriyama said it’s not in sayains dna to care about stuff like that which is what made og bardock so great is because we got to watch him make that change as to where in minus even gine in the chapters points out he’s being out of character. It was so contrived
My main bone to pick with modern bardock is his appearance he basically looks like Goku with Saiyan armor and a scar on his cheek when as to the older movies/specials with bardock in the past he was unique and he clearly wasn't just a copy and paste of Goku with a few minor detail difference I'm getting the vibe that the complete opposite is being approached here
Frieza was even in armor in that clip so if he’s not wearing armor at all in the movie I’d be disappointed. Not devastated but definitely disappointed.
Exactly, he literally contradicted himself making this. The irony. Some of his points were very valid, and some just were not. This is an example of one. In dragon ball minus it flashes forward so we don’t see what happened in that one month time before Frieza destroyed everything. But we do know Bardock/Burdock suspected fowl play so there’s no telling if in that time he lead a rebellion or not until the movie comes out. For all we know the rebellion could have been covered by the giant ball of energy. We don’t know, so wait till it comes out before you say anything in regards to that. And the reference to DBS where you can clearly see warriors in space on the left side is just laughable. Everything else though made sense( though personally I think Frieza looks better without his armor, makes him more menacing as a dictator who doesn’t need armor cause he doesn’t fight, everyone else does for him/ he’s too powerful to need armor).
No. Im sure he’s still cashing in. The production and story-lining so far is subpar with Toriyama’s standards. Sure it looks cool, but Broly becoming canon??? Holyyyy cringe fuckkkkk
DBZ Bardock: Awesome bad ass Saiyan that tries to save his home world despite impossible odds Minus Bardock: Lame Jor-El rip off that gives Dragon Ball back the vibe of being a Superman rip off that I thought it would be over by now.
In my opinion Supermans father and Bardock have nothing in common Goku was sent by his race to destroy earth supes was sent to save it now the new Broly movie Bardock does remind me of superman dad that's not good I liked his dad the way he originally was
ya but there are versions of jor el trying to save his planet from destruction in vain aswell. so DBZ animated special bardock isnt original from superman either :^)
I love how savage old Bardock was. That special was deep. You shall know the horror of your end!! Having the gift/ curse of foresight. When he throws that last blast at Frieza he exclaims No way!!! He can’t believe how insanely strong Frieza actually is. They through that out in Broly. It didn’t seem as terrifying , in the tv special the little guy killed a bunch of his men they all flooded out to attack Bardock. They were shocked and horrified. I still enjoy DBS super I watched it again last night. I watched the first 5 DBZ movies yesterday I love them I’m glad all that stuff is still around. I enjoy the new but it doesn’t just replace what came before it. I like the old villainous Broly I like the new Broly. I like the fact that Heroes exist and all these characters and transformations can exist s
I feel like this movie is trying to be the new EVERYTHING regarding saiyans- when in reality it just needed a clearer understanding of the backstory We don’t need a laundry list of retcons to make it easier for the movie to tie shit together- just make use of the assets you already have
Nah man Dbs doesn't exist nor does the new Bardock. Dragon ball ended with End of Z and continued on into GT. Therefore Dragon ball ended when Goku killed omega shenron.
@@powerjolt7215 Dbz ending scenes was suck the ending should be like this That goku meet his father and mother and vegeta same thing and that how Dbz should be end but no
Old Bardock made more sense. Remember that part Bardock and his team attacked those people so they can get that power to see the future? That made it more unique. Here's why when Bardock was given the Physic Ability to see the future, Bardock and his son Kakarot could see it. And that explain why Kakarot was Crying so Loud it Awaken something in him not just a super Sayian but Legendary Power from within. I Felt like that physic Ability Gave him a secret unknown power to go beyond limits. Think about it That physic Ability was so powerful Bardock's own Offspring could witness it with him but you just had to be a newborn witch also makes sense. And the part Kakarot hit his Head when he was a baby I think that also was important. lol
@@Jesus9735 What's crazy is that I actually feel like that would not only provide a great explanation, but could potentially lead to a really good story arc in itself. But of course Toriyama even manages to fuck himself over there by his own rules of timelines.
I read a fanfiction once where Goten wished to meet his grandpa and was time traveled to Planet Vegeta and meets Bardock. Then Trunks follows him. Goten appears magically right in front of Freeza's death ball and reflexively bats it back at Freeza like a tennis ball. Caught off guard Freeza is killed by his own attack. Then Goten goes to live with Bardock, poses as a young Kakarot, and Trunks (the youth from the main timeline not Mirai) shows up trying to follow his best friend by using the Namekian dragon balls to wish himself to wherever Goten is. They're both super saiyans who know the fusion dance at this point and their power levels are just stupidly broken. The whole thing is more of a comedy and misadventure at that point
It looks like Bardock lost a fight to Guile and decided to go home and be a family man. I miss when he was cool. He conquered planets and didn't afraid of anything.
@@dragonbane001 the black star dragon balls being a thing. They literally make no sense. There just being a random general whose stronger than majin buu in his BASE form while frieza was supposed to rule over most the known universe and many more just to name a few
This retcon literally ruined Dragon Ball a bit for me. It's one thing for GT or Super to shit up it's own story. It's a whole another thing to destroy the past events that this series was built on to the point that they might as well reboot Dragon Ball. This retcon is so bad it's actually impossible to ignore like dogshit in the middle of the room with no AC on a hot summer day.
I mean i don't get why anyone cares for launch,she was just a gag and didn't do nothing at all other then getting goku and krillin trained by roshi.i honestly forgot she existed but I don't miss her much
of course but i feel like his time is up the amount of contradictions dragon ball has its just annoying us old fans will understand which story is which but the new generation watching will be confused af
Despite Dragon Ball not having a super complex story: OG Bardock's story is about a warrior whose race is controlled by a Tyrant, with a will to change it all. Later, when he gets the power to observe the outcome of his actions, he attempts to change fate in honor of his fallen team mates, who died by their tyrant's actions. In the end, Bardock realizes his efforts were futile and the demise of his planet was set in stone. Moments before accepting that fate, he witnesses a vision of his son facing the ruler doomed his people. Bardock smiles as he shouts his son's name. DBS Bardock is about a family man who cares for his wife and son and only wishes the best for him, and, as a last wish, hopes his son can change his race's course. I made my choice ;)
@@NBM1942 Z Bardock never entirely cared until he saw the future, Super Bardock just had a complete switch around to send his son off to keep him safe.
I mean it already is though. It literally cannot coexist with the original Dragon ball /Z. Same as GT (which can actually fit better into the original overall.)
The reason why we LOOOVE Bardock (My fave character btw) is how despite all the odds and his own people dissing him, he gave no fk and still tried to change the future. Also his red bandana (color literally made from his own blood AND his comrade's blood) is what defines Bardock as a character, It is such an important tool to the character (like kid goku with nimbus and power pole) and they decided to take THAT out. I'm like WHAT!! WHYYY
I do not know why you told me to relax as i am not stressed, but i digress. Whether or not he created him, he used him in his story. That makes him canon. End of discussion.
except he didn't use him. he used 2 panels: one of him confronting frieza and one of him being killed. there's nothing that indicates bardock isn't sympathetic or even that he's a "bad ass" through for through since one action doesn't define someone's personality. geekdom is wrong and he's misinforming people like you who didn't go out of their way to read the dragon ball manga or even minus
You are misinformed, because he clearly used him in the manga, as you mentioned. you are contradicting yourself. For me, i am not talking about his personalty, I prefer the red bandana design.
The question is why. Do these retcons make the story any better? Do they do any good? I don't think so. Bardock is a more sympathetic characters, but this only means, he looks even more like Goku. Aside from the fact, that even their skin tones seem to match now. Before, Bardock, at least in his behaviour, was clearly distinct. I also don't understand, why Toriyama takes out strong scenes like Bardocks team dying, the fight with Freezers men, the Rebellion. It does nothing good for this story. So question is, why even change it? At least Broly is back.
Because Toriyama didnt create dbz, was his editor that stop him to tranform db and dbz in a joke, and forced him to create a more serious and violent show. Now without chains he is decided to create garbage for money. Thats all.
Dragon Ball Super Retcon. That's basically all that Super seems to be. A giant retcon and I would imagine when Super comes back, they're going to act like it's been this way the whole time and Goku knew his father. This kind of shit really ruins the integrity of the story. People like when something has a lore, it makes it easier to suspend your disbelief and invest in the story.
Why can't people understand this? People always pull the "it's a children's show" or "it was never that deep." Dragonball's writing was never Shakespearean, but it still had a good story that made me give a damn about the characters. Super has all of Z's flaws magnified to 100. Some fans want more than JUST power ups and a new hair color.
TacoWarrior no they didn't where, show some proof I read dragon ball minus and I'm watching the same trailer you did. I don't see him landing on earth NOT bumping his head
There's also the beerus issue maybe being retconned as before and his father saw beerus on planet vegita. Vegita wasn't a small child at the time when he confronted beerus. So the battle of gods also seems to have an issue too
not necessarily... we don´t know the time line!!! goku is not a baby when he is sent to earth in the trailer and minus!! he was more like a toddler; so there is a time lapse there; maybe the beerus/king vegeta scene happened!!!!
Theres also the fact that Vegeta was shown to be alive in his kid form and spying on his father when King Vegeta met Beerus. He was shown to be the same age, and in the same design as his kid form from the Bardock Special. So if you think about it, Super is both supporting AND going against previously established lore at the same time.
@@Nuigi12 It was told as that, but Toriyama never really showed any "good" saiyan. In fact, he did the opposite, pretty much every new saiyan that we knew fights Goku to defend his planet. Saiyans being brutes and savages were the key component that made them different from humans on an emotional and mental level. Without that, they're literally humans with powers. Plus, it kinda defeats the original canon of Goku being savage as a baby and him being a rare exception in his race due to the fact that he was good and kind.
@@jairomelchor8024 Bardock. Not a perfectly pure saiyan but a good one. Gine was Pure hearted. Yamoshi. The Legendary Super Saiyan (Which may or may not be the same guy as Yamoshi, not confirmed.)
@@Nuigi12 no gine was never pure hearted,everyone of bardock's friends killed innocents and conquered planets to sell them.This bullshit about gokus mother was just made up by fans for their own fucking weird fantasies
@@Nuigi12 Bardock was not a good person, he enjoyed slaughtering innocents and life-wiping planets, there's not even any real evidence that he became a "good" person, he was just trying to save his own race. Having feelings is not the same as being a good person.
I'm just gonna act like Minus never happened. Even for the Broly movie. I'll only acknowledge lil Vegeta, lil Raditz, and the Broly parts of the backstory.
All Toriyama could've done was just add more stuff to the Bardock that we already knew. Like he gets soft when he is near Gine. Instead of having him worrying about Goku just have him visit Gine and when he sees Goku just have him say "He gotten that big already" telling the audience he doesn't visit that often and haven't seen his kid since he was born. Because Bardock gets soft near Gine that scene with him showing "Love" makes since because Gine is nearby.
The only real retcon is of Bardock dying by standing in front of Freeza's ball of energy. All other details of Bardock's story were already non-canon. And Goku being referred to as a 'baby' means nothing because Japanese has no word for 'toddler'. Toddlers are called 'babies' in Japan. Though really, you enjoyed a sweet show when you were a child, and that remains unchanged. Just try to enjoy this upcoming movie for what it is. Everything from the past still exists and is readily available to view again at your pleasure. : )
No its not. I keep saying this!!! Leave bardock and broly alone please. This is gonna ruin the story i promise you. Someone give Toriyama his meds in his apple sauce and tell him to call it night, thank you for my childhood, but don’t ruin it during my adulthood.
Everyone's got a right for criticizing who they want. Personally, I think it's time Toyotaro takes the mantle, though I've heard he also has some downfalls.
The clips you sent from the Broly trailer also retcon something else: In Dragon Ball Z, Super, and the original Dragonball manga, planet Vegeta is red from space. But in the Broly trailer is looks teal like Namek.
Not pissed, so pumped. Also I'll make my opinion of new bardock after the movie. If I'm just going off minus, I prefer the older version, but I have a feeling they will somehow combine them in the movie.
THATS WHAT I THINK TOO!!! Like I really do feel like Bardock could still rebel AND be a good dad. If they end up combining Minus Bardock and FoG Bardock, I'll be a happy camper
@@apricotmadness4850 well in my one reply I said I think that's where the story might split. Two scenes made me think this, one was from the TV special when everyone laughs at bardock for trying to start the revolt, if it's a combination of the two bardocks he should be smart enough to know he's damaged and can't fight freeza alone, two the scene from the trailer when he's in the ship and asks about Goku, I'm thinking he decides to heal up get new armour and send Goku away before freeza can do anything, raditz at this point is already off planet so he's safe, so he needs to make sure Goku is sent away, plus he'll have his wife I'm this version so they'll split the difference and say him sending his children away is his new version of a revolution (which ends up working). So I'm thinking they'll use that time frame of him healing and sending goku off planet, to have to freeza and beerus scene we all wanna see... Well at least I do
there is no continuity!!!to me is very simple!!! the old bardock was not created by toriyama so was never official/canon!!! so it is like it never existed;is like as if bardock had never existed before minus!!! the bardock we see in the trailer is the one and only bardock!!!!!
Agreed, unless he does more than 7 alternate timelines and said there r thousands and bardock special happened in another reality then it would work for me.
Thanos: I destroyed HALF of the universe. Spider-Man: Telling lies Zeno:I destroyed an ENTIRE universe! Toriyama: I don’t feel so good.... Toriyama: Well....I guess it’s time to MINUS the Dragon Ball series.
I actually didn't know Toriyama put a scene from the Bardock film into his manga. For a long time I just thought Bardock was an anime-only character. That's actually super interesting. I've heard a LOT of people saying none of this was a retcon because it was never in the manga, but cool to see it actually was!
Toriyama actually made DBZ Bardock canon he said it himself. Till DBM was created. Also Toriyama actually drew DBZ Broly and DBZ Bardock both of them were drawn by Toriyama but for the rest he didn't do anything with the characters. But he loved DBZ Bardock's story so much he made it canon till he created DB minus. But now the Broly movie has dropped we see Bardock did try to rebel against Frieza.
The only downside of this movie is the fact that bardock is downgraded, I've already read the manga years ago and the bardock in the DB Minus is well... i really seriously wished that the manga didn't exist back then, although atleast they showed Goku's mother but still... FFS toriyama softened up the Badass bardock, shit that guy was the man who faced frieza on the space despite being on the brink of death he's still kicking ass, toriyama did turn his character canon but with the price of his badassery getting lost?, now... he's just a fucking Superman's Daddy duplicate (didn't knew the guy's name). They ruined bardock just to milk the goddamn series... I'm still hoping that they might tweak the DB Minus Bardock makes his character a bit similar to the DBZ episode of bardock, the Bardock who rushed to the goddamn space half-dead but still kicking somebody's ass, faced frieza and died like a badass...
@@TehMighty I mean Goku was influenced by Superman, but Minus literally transforms into a rip-off. At least in the Bardock special, Bardock wasn't a Jor-El clone.
He is not a badass imo. He was just a brute, just another saiyan. The only thing badass was his fighting style and how outright savage he can be. But thats it
DBZ was never canon. DBZ is only an anime adaptation of an specific part of the manga. The canon version is the manga, that was never called DBZ, and instead it remained with the title "Dragon Ball".
The Spiderman meme with old toriyama getting laughed at by his younger self is so funny to me. 😂 He really did set himself up, seeing as his memory is so out there.
Exactly! Lmao i saw this and heard his words "frieza blowing up the planet and there didn't apear to be anybody there.." Hahaha well theres people there alright! We will see once the movie happens and all ots greatness.
I dont think the change is necessarily bad. I just hope they at least keep the aspect where bardock’s character develops when his allies are murdered and he swears to avenge them. Plus the bandana was cool
It is bad, because it takes away the dramatic irony behind Goku's origin and changes it to be a more generic and derivative backstory that makes it feel like he's destined to be a hero. Even if we were to pretend the special didn't exist and there wasn't any affection held for Bardock himself, people would still take issue with the fact that a lot of these changes take away from the original manga's themes and ideas played with when Goku found out about where he came from and what he is. On top of that, changing things so his parents are "aberrations" and different from other Saiyans just for the sake of making them stand out is also somewhat of a turn off. It comes off as overly coincidental and only done so just because they're the parents of the main character. The original special already treaded a fine line by making Bardock, of all people, confront Freeza at the end of it, but this somehow goes even further than that.
The thing with DB Minus is a common problem that many shows have: Toriyama just isnt the genius many people think. He can´t write and the true brains are the editors working in the background. I mean compare him to Eiichirō Oda for example, who has a completely clear vision of his story and all the characters in it. Toriyama just ignores and changes things in his own work like he wants. its annoying. For me he had his climax from the king piccolo arc in original DB until the cell arc in Z. The rest was.......
This is very true. People look at toriyamas work through the lease of a little kid watching their favorite show. They can't see passed their own nostalgic bias and realise that dragon ball isn't that great of a manga, it's funand very entertaining but I wouldn't put it anywhere near something like naruto, and definitely nowhere near one piece.
@@thepandaman8571 you're really going to use Naruto as an example of good writing? That garbage wasnt even thematically consistent and had garbage power creep. Among a myriad of other bad writing problems. Clearly you're one of those kids who grew up on naruto, one piece, and bleach. There's a reason anime popularity died in the US when those shows were aired.
I don't understand why Toriyama want to change now what he established for Saiyans in the first place. It's supposed that Saiyans were a brutal race who live in a brutal society where even the kids are used as soldiers because they tend to be violent even as babys. So they were the opposite of "good guys". In fact Goku was just like that and only change his temper due to a strong hit in the head. In that context, it has all sense that Bardock were a violent random guy in King Vegeta army. But now, Goku's father is something like a scientist, a family guy and a beloved husband/father, who only wants to protect his family. Come on, even Raditz wanted to kill Goku for not being what a Saiyan must be. It has no fucking sense. And the worst thing, it is something that somehow ruin Goku's own arc, because it's the story of guy who is destinied to destroy the Earth and the human race but became its greatest champion, and even is capable to change the evilest enemies thanks his honor, honesty and nobility. Toriyama doesn't read his own fucking manga and doesn't even care about it.
RaginDXDemon So a Vegeta with character development is worse than a Vegeta who got himself overshadowed by Goku and had to use a fucking Machine to go SS4????
+Aokiba Ryuzaki Character development? OH OH OOOOOOOH you mean the regression of his character where he is back to his early Buu saga self where he doesnt want help and is all " damn you kakarot, how are you always ahead of me, I WILL learn this and this before you" Yeah what great fucking character development THAT WE FUCKING SEEN BEFORE IN BETTER FASHION IN THE BUU SAGA. In fucking GT at least hes willing to fight alongside Goku with NO problems and actually suggests fusion. VEGETA suggesting fusion. Meaning he let go of his stupid pride and will do whatever it takes to save the earth he calls his home. Thats called character consistency. Which fucking Super clearly didnt have. Lets not even talk about KRILLINS fucking "character development"
The original bardock special is still gunna be canon of the events that took place. I don't care what happens in this movie the past won't change. Z and the original dragonball will always take priority
The "canon" in dragon ball is nothing but a huge mess and plot holes. Bringing back freiza from the dead and giving him a gold form along with many other things in super weren't even his ideas in the first place, he just does whatever toei wants him to do.
so your arguement is because he's stupidly rich he's only coninuing to make more money and not for the series in any way lol? May as well label him as a money grabbing sociopath and be done with it, while ignoring the fact he's the reason you have the series you know and love.
Next in the dragon ball super retcons: 1) Bulma has orange and purple hair 2) Superman's parent appear since Goku is now a direct copy from origin, but dumber and more arrogant 3) They never fought Cell, but instead the androids only, and Cell will appear but have a flat story, more than the original
@@paper9523 Canon is a useless concept. No one can change a previous story and claim it's the same one. And plot holes are a great way to measure if a continuation is valid - better than to ask an author who now simply wants to tell a different story. :)
So many Bardocks... so little time.
Geekdom101 I bet those spiders are energy draining and that’s why nobody could sense Broly.
Geekdom101 i wonder where that’s from
Jahiem Young GT fist or movie 13 fist?
We can say the different timeline 😕?
Geekdom101 i mean im still funna watch it but it doesn't mean i like this version of it
Does anyone else just miss bardocks headband
I do
YES
Yes
Hell no
Me
I'll stick with the 1991 version!
It was a master piece!
Agreed! I love the 1990 version! ❤️
Doesn't fit with the theme of the movie. That future was way too goofy
@@Agent-57 what
@@lasthope3237 The original. The future sight thing was bullshit.
@57 sure but they massacred Bardock with his redesign not only is his armor super basic now he is not Saiyan like and now the canon is that Goku went to earth because Bardock just had a bad feeling instead of being ambushed by frieza soldiers thus learning about the plan to destroy the saiyans
"Open up your books to namek saga, chapter..."
This sounds like a dragonball church
Yes
Gokuism is a thing, look it up
It's funny, too, because the Dragonball franchise has a lot of contradictions, like the bible
@@Dominus_Augustus its funny cause u trynna start shi. Idk if its gonna work tho. U should prolly go do it on a christian video
@@domo_doom1720 please no
This retcon creates a massive plot hole for the series. Goku was originally sent to earth to wipe out it's population so the Saiyans could sell the planet. If Goku was sent to Earth now to escape from Frieza then Raditz never would have came to Earth to check on Kakarot's progress. Raditz never would have told Nappa and Vegeta about the dragon balls and Dragon Ball Z never would have happened.
Raditz and Vegeta were still young when Goku was sent to Earth. Raditz could have been raised on the original purpose of the Saiyans, not knowing what Frieza did.
Also, didn't Raditz originally believe a giant comet destroyed Planet Vegeta?
Excellent point!!! I saw the film just a few days ago and other than not liking the softer portrayal of the Saiyans, I knew there was something else that irked me that I couldn't yet recognize.
I was thinking the same thing. It's like he erased Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and Kai.
Kinda late but the reason raditz came to earth was to recruit Goku to there team to rebel against Frieza. He would have came to earth anyways.
In DBS: Broly, kid Raditz said his mum called him to tell him his brother was sent to another planet.
Toryama might as well turned Bardock into a brilliant scientist.
You know I wouldn't mind seeing him in a lab coat..
Still would have been a better story than minus.
I think this was a reference to dragon Ball z when Vegeta thanked bardock for coming up with the light ball they could use to transform
LMFAOOOOOOO!!! you made my night XD
+Kinoksis
I get the reference, but careful, we might get that wish... I mean Bardock already willingly sent Goku to Earth, so all that's missing is him being a scientist.
Akita toriyama probably doesn’t even remember much of bardock let alone his own original manga. Sure it’s been more than 20 years, but he’s notoriously bad at remembering his own stuff. He forgot all about super saiyan 2 before, and if you read some of his interviews it can get so awkward how much he’s forgotten.
Yeah but he could definitely review bardock and watch the specials but instead he changed his personality and what made him unique in his character portrayal.
R.i.p O.G bardock
Pz video art agreed, then again he’s already messed with so much like making the potara have time limit when he could have made bulma create one with a time limit or something. Or how the tingling sensation in your back transforms into super saiyan. He could think up a more reasonable method. It’s like he’s trying to see just how far he can take things.
@@xxhalloweenx oh the tingling I forgot about that bullshit 😂
Is not that he doesn't remember, is that at the time "Bardock" wasn't his.
So, he decided he wanted to tell the story on it's own terms, I think there's an interview or special messege where he says this.
Never forget launch
Toriyama: Fans....?
Fans: Did you make Broly canon?
Toriyama: Yes
Fans: What did it cost?
Toriyama: "Everything...."
*And then he wakes up with Trunk's sword deep inside his chest*
Trunks: What did you do?!
First it was making goku a jerk now life it self
Old Bardock: Mr Toriyama?... I don't feel so good
It's ok don't bash him if it wasn't for him Dragon ball never would of exists. Give the guy props for coming back making are favorite series and movies well to be honest to me it's my fav anime. I don't like how they changed the storyline either it's ruined. But it's ok can't wait to watch it
Toriyama: Ok you got Broly and Bardock what else do you want?
Fans: Gogeta
Toriyama: NO.
Original Bardock: Portrayed Sayains perfectly as they were made to be violent, aggressive, and loved fighting
Minus Bardock: Caring and the complete opposite of the saiyans that were portayed (except Goku because of his head)
In my own opinion prefer the bardock special wayyyy better
Then Bardock hit his own head while Gine was pregnant with Kakarot and became a wonderful, and carrying father. Gine did say that a father should not be carrying about his own children so much. But he replied that he would like to save a life like Kakarot even if he is in the low class.
@@karinatinoco887 I know I'm late but if you look alot of the sayains in the broly movie do not seem violent at all dude they turned alot of the sayains into much softer people
@@Delicious_OreozMaybe they were always caring people but we never knew it
@@craigpeoples9883 if that's true than it kind ruins character.
@@tanyaharmon6739How does ruin there character that there not savage blood thirsty aliens
Both look good but I prefer the old Bardock, he looks cooler and more like a true sayian warrior
Bardock was just to cool for toriyama
I agree he fit the sayain mold more this new bardock is. Contrived
New bardock looks way too much like goku basically the exact same except for scar
Clutch Finesse that’s always been the only facial difference 😂😂😂😂
Damn so basically my entire childhood of watching this is non-canon. They keep changing the original story.
Lol Pop pretty much lol
Exactly! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Lol Pop Exactly, everything you know about db is a lie... this isn't the same series it's just the same characters for marketing purposes, they turned db into a cash cow and forgot about it's fans.... But since this is a new anime I advise people to watch DB, DBZ, and DBGT (non Canon but better than this B's) if you're interested in the best anime to ever be made
Maybe u shouldn't have took non canon as canon XD
@@itsme1588 everything you thought u knew was non canon and it's your fault that u took non canon as canon.
If Raditz isn't in the movie I'm gonna cry 😭😭😭
Edit: Thanks for the likes 😭💪
most likley he will in dragonball minus raditz is with vegeta
Raditz is the Rem on Dragonball
Me too dude ;(
Who's raditz, is that like a pet or something?
@@trappyboi8678 I don't know. But it sounds disappointing
Can't wait until they remake History of Trunks Tv special too, with Future Gohan dying while trying to protect the Pilaf Gang!
lol, might as well
Bruh
Lmao 😂😂😂
🙏🙏🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂 man anything is possible the worst thing is they cant bring back lunch but they can bring back fucking pilaf gang and potray them as saints man goku they were the reason why your master and krillin was killed in dragon ball by king picolo 😂😂
My biggest gripe with Minus is that it doesn't just retcon the manga but it undercuts everything Goku has ever achieved. It literally turns his origin into Superman. Which is funny because Toriyama said he didn't like how the anime portrayed Goku as too heroic but you turn his origin into the man that is all truth and justice everywhere. Instead of Goku being sent to earth to destroy it he was sent there to live a peaceful life.
Then there's the fact that roshi CLEARLY said that Gohan found a BABY in the wilderness. Does Goku look like a baby in that scene? Or how about the fact that Gine says "I'll tell raditz what's going on" that clearly doesn't happen now does it. Thematically DB should have ended years ago.
There’s also the kind of big thing about Goku not knowing about the saiyans and not knowing he had a brother. If he went to earth when he was 3, then he should’ve thought that Raditz was at least familiar.
Null 00 unless he still hits his head and it caused amnesia.
In Japanese different names for 'baby' and 'toddler' are not used. People call both babies and toddlers 'baby' here. That part can be explained without stretching as a simple mistranslation of the original manga.
Eptalin Doesn’t matter at all. We could clearly see as roshi explained when we see Goku at his youngest in dragonball Z, he is an infant who grew into a rotten child until he hit his head.
If he were to of arrived on earth and made it to the age of ~ 5 raditz has already confirmed there would of been no earth.
Saiyan children were strong enough to wipe out the weaker planets which was why goku had been sent (until we heard of bardock)
Bardock improved upon this story because there was a valid reason why he didn’t destroy the earth as a child, He was sent far too early. And thus the fans loved it and him.
Game Inspection okay, first of all, Toriyama said he didn’t like how Z portrayed Goku as heroic because Goku at his core is just guy who cares about fighting. It doesn’t matter his reasoning for being seen to earth, at heart, he’s still a Saiyan that cares about battle. He and Superman being sent off from a planet that’s about to be destroyed is where the comparison starts and ends. Also, the Japanese have different phrases then folks in North America. Technically speaking, a child can be referred to as baby from birth to age 4. And what about what Gine says? Pretty sure she was waiting for Raditz to come back, so she could tell him about Kakarot, but obviously, they all died before he could make it back.
Old bardock because he was a badass when he first appeared
Hello again
mcBUFFfluff The old Bardock WAS cool! But what about the SUPER SAIYAN Bardock who fought & defeated CHILLED???
@@joshualowe1821 that is old bardock
So is this canon Bardock
Yeah but this one isn't some scummy low class warriors he's a BIG scientist and a good family man.
Old Bardock > New Bardock
I bet that the OG Bardock will keep to appear in the games, where Minus Bardock will be quickly forgotten.
A. Liguria Of course
@@lightinstinct707 not by me
Joshua Muhammad Dragon Ball I mean I won’t forget minus bardock neither but games will use og bardock
@@lightinstinct707 I agree with you you're right they would use him
Classic Bardock is the only version that I’ll accept, however if they keep some of his old personality intact and his rebellion against Freiza then I can live with this change.
Sadly he doesn't fight Frieza in minus
And is more sympathetic
Crazy Platinum I can handle him being more sympathetic, but stripping out his rebellion doesn’t sit well with me. To be honest I don’t think I’ll ever get used to this version, but hopefully the rest of the movie will be awesome.
Minus ends before Planet Vegeta's destruction, which is recounted in a text box.
I like this Bardock more, but I see where you're coming from. If the revolt isn't in this and he's a COMPLETE good guy, I'd be done. I don't mind him caring for his family but he shouldn't be a good guy like the Z fighters. Make him like Bardock from the special EXCEPT he has a soft spot for and cares for his family and comrades and keep the revolt. That would be fantastic.
Nothing Special him caring for his family makes zero sense though toriyama said it’s not in sayains dna to care about stuff like that which is what made og bardock so great is because we got to watch him make that change as to where in minus even gine in the chapters points out he’s being out of character. It was so contrived
Shenron, please grant my Wish:
Bring back TV Special Bardock!
"That is beyond my power." Toribot trumps dragon.
butthurt dbs fanboy
@@Azamat421 So you aren't a fan, Just a stupid mindless butthurt fanboy right?
@@alexandervillanueva9909 Got em.
"Nah son. Thats beyond my power, go to the different timeline though it cuts off at like a good chunk"
My main bone to pick with modern bardock is his appearance he basically looks like Goku with Saiyan armor and a scar on his cheek when as to the older movies/specials with bardock in the past he was unique and he clearly wasn't just a copy and paste of Goku with a few minor detail difference I'm getting the vibe that the complete opposite is being approached here
chef boyardee BALLER The animation doesn’t look clean enough to tell differences between characters like that
FinalSlayer yeah, its just different art syle goku looks different almost in every arc in Z
HipHop Snippets saiyans don't age in their prime
@@NinjaSanji thats called growth bakaa
My Main bone to pick with Bardock in general is that, not only does he look almost exactly like Goku, but he's also voiced by Masako Nozawa. Why?
7:40 "nobody there" so we're just going to ignore all the warriors on the left side floating in space?
I noticed that too, really silly.
Frieza was even in armor in that clip so if he’s not wearing armor at all in the movie I’d be disappointed. Not devastated but definitely disappointed.
I thought I was trippin🤔
LOL
Exactly, he literally contradicted himself making this. The irony. Some of his points were very valid, and some just were not. This is an example of one. In dragon ball minus it flashes forward so we don’t see what happened in that one month time before Frieza destroyed everything. But we do know Bardock/Burdock suspected fowl play so there’s no telling if in that time he lead a rebellion or not until the movie comes out. For all we know the rebellion could have been covered by the giant ball of energy. We don’t know, so wait till it comes out before you say anything in regards to that. And the reference to DBS where you can clearly see warriors in space on the left side is just laughable. Everything else though made sense( though personally I think Frieza looks better without his armor, makes him more menacing as a dictator who doesn’t need armor cause he doesn’t fight, everyone else does for him/ he’s too powerful to need armor).
(Dragon Ball Minus Bardock is in the movie)
Badass Bardock: DAMN IT ALL!!!
He's still a badass
@@rng-mos2314 not really
@Crazy
You're 100% wrong, and this video explains why.
It's like he went to hell after Frieza destroyed him and Minus is him after his mind is wiped and he's reborn.
Toriyama is sitting on 50 million dollars. Yall think he cares about continuity?
He might tho you dont know for sure
He didnt care about continuity before the 50mil. He literally never wrote down any notes on things
Only 50 mil??? TBH, I feel like he should be worth more.
No. Im sure he’s still cashing in. The production and story-lining so far is subpar with Toriyama’s standards. Sure it looks cool, but Broly becoming canon??? Holyyyy cringe fuckkkkk
Way more than that easily more
DBZ Bardock: Awesome bad ass Saiyan that tries to save his home world despite impossible odds
Minus Bardock: Lame Jor-El rip off that gives Dragon Ball back the vibe of being a Superman rip off that I thought it would be over by now.
KasaiWolf07 they’ve been comparing him to Jor-El for years
Kaylo STEEZ OK comparing? Yeah maybe but this is downright just copying.
In my opinion Supermans father and Bardock have nothing in common Goku was sent by his race to destroy earth supes was sent to save it now the new Broly movie Bardock does remind me of superman dad that's not good I liked his dad the way he originally was
ya but there are versions of jor el trying to save his planet from destruction in vain aswell. so DBZ animated special bardock isnt original from superman either :^)
JJoh4040 exactly my point man. They made Bardock into Jor El
Bardock's story was a damn near perfect prequel to the series.
Which one?
7:43 "There didn't appear to be anyone there" There is literally a battalion of soldiers on the left side if the screen
They are looking at the fireworks :D
Isn’t that the frieza force tho
Yes. They're probably fighting someone. Why are they outside then?
Geekdom smoking rocks 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 he go blind just to prove a point
Thought I was the only one ..
Goku's backstory = Superman's backstory. Toriyama is smoking.
Mystic™ He’s been smoking for a while, lol
@@aho-pinoy6327 Well...yeah. But now it's almost completely like Superman's backstory. It almost looks like copy & paste now.
Time Breaker Bardock
No, it wasn’t. There were only a few similarities by mere coincidence, nothing more.
And has been since 2014.
lelennyfox34
And that’s that.
Old design of bardock looked badass and new one looks like he just downgraded
And Frieza is pink, wtf
Even his new armor looks trash. It's the new version of the Frieza armor that debuted in Super.
AG2 production super in a nutshell
Looks generic to say the least
I prefer him with his bandana
I love how savage old Bardock was. That special was deep. You shall know the horror of your end!! Having the gift/ curse of foresight. When he throws that last blast at Frieza he exclaims No way!!! He can’t believe how insanely strong Frieza actually is. They through that out in Broly. It didn’t seem as terrifying , in the tv special the little guy killed a bunch of his men they all flooded out to attack Bardock. They were shocked and horrified. I still enjoy DBS super I watched it again last night. I watched the first 5 DBZ movies yesterday I love them I’m glad all that stuff is still around. I enjoy the new but it doesn’t just replace what came before it. I like the old villainous Broly I like the new Broly. I like the fact that Heroes exist and all these characters and transformations can exist s
DB super is TRASH
@@greatestnitemare6626absolutely
I liked psychic Bardok
*i cAn sEe tHE fUTuRE*
*Bulma and vegeta have a kid*
I like scientist Bardock
@@preds43 noW yOU can SEe THe fUTuRE
I like Saiyantist Bardock
Your editing has improved vastly.
This one had a LOT of stuff put in it
@Geekdom101
I'd say the stuff put in it was worth it. Looks great! :D
I feel like this movie is trying to be the new EVERYTHING regarding saiyans- when in reality it just needed a clearer understanding of the backstory
We don’t need a laundry list of retcons to make it easier for the movie to tie shit together- just make use of the assets you already have
The only retcon I see is Bardock (And MAYBE Baby Goku, but even that can be excused).
Its NOT a retcon if it only 1 part of special is canon.
Seeing as Super is canon to the manga and not the anime, its only doing the latter
@Ultimate Oreo
Except even the Manga had Old Bardock in it.
The Red Bandana Makes Him Look More Savage Like Rambo
New Bardock needs his blooded headband on. Without it he looks almost like Goku Black with a scar
Exactly
Exactly
Implying having a bandana wouldn't just make him look like goku with a bandana lmao
@@Sn1ff the bandana is iconic to his character, I'd rather have that over this half assed jor el
THANKS TORIYAMA ,YOU JUST DESTROYED MY FAVOURITE CHARACTER
Your welcome
Lol
Still not a bad bardock if you watched the movie
Nah man Dbs doesn't exist nor does the new Bardock. Dragon ball ended with End of Z and continued on into GT. Therefore Dragon ball ended when Goku killed omega shenron.
GT is not canon
@@powerjolt7215
Dbz ending scenes was suck the ending should be like this
That goku meet his father and mother and vegeta same thing and that how Dbz should be end but no
Old Bardock made more sense. Remember that part Bardock and his team attacked those people so they can get that power to see the future? That made it more unique. Here's why when Bardock was given the Physic Ability to see the future, Bardock and his son Kakarot could see it. And that explain why Kakarot was Crying so Loud it Awaken something in him not just a super Sayian but Legendary Power from within. I Felt like that physic Ability Gave him a secret unknown power to go beyond limits. Think about it That physic Ability was so powerful Bardock's own Offspring could witness it with him but you just had to be a newborn witch also makes sense. And the part Kakarot hit his Head when he was a baby I think that also was important. lol
He was just better period
I just chalk it up to Trunks messin up the timelines.
Imposible.
Trunks can only alter the future of a timeline by changing it in it's present state.
The past remains the same.
I feel that. I really don't know what the fuck I'm talking about haha it's the only way I can justify to myself what's going on.
@@Jesus9735 What's crazy is that I actually feel like that would not only provide a great explanation, but could potentially lead to a really good story arc in itself. But of course Toriyama even manages to fuck himself over there by his own rules of timelines.
I read a fanfiction once where Goten wished to meet his grandpa and was time traveled to Planet Vegeta and meets Bardock. Then Trunks follows him.
Goten appears magically right in front of Freeza's death ball and reflexively bats it back at Freeza like a tennis ball. Caught off guard Freeza is killed by his own attack.
Then Goten goes to live with Bardock, poses as a young Kakarot, and Trunks (the youth from the main timeline not Mirai) shows up trying to follow his best friend by using the Namekian dragon balls to wish himself to wherever Goten is.
They're both super saiyans who know the fusion dance at this point and their power levels are just stupidly broken. The whole thing is more of a comedy and misadventure at that point
Trunks is from a whole different dimension... That dont got shit to do with it
It looks like Bardock lost a fight to Guile and decided to go home and be a family man. I miss when he was cool. He conquered planets and didn't afraid of anything.
Doesn't afraid of anything, indeed! Lmao
Lol glad you got it. Makes me feel good :D
The tfs Bardock special is better than both of them
you mean didn´t fear anything?
dragom2009 oh my sweet summer child...
At least GT took traits from the original story and built a whole saga off of it without contradicting the balance.
Gold Dawg I’m saying. Ppl still shitting on GT for no reason
It did contradict though. Alot of contradiction of the original manga
It contradicted a lot actually
@@johnc6158 curious, what did it?
@@dragonbane001 the black star dragon balls being a thing. They literally make no sense. There just being a random general whose stronger than majin buu in his BASE form while frieza was supposed to rule over most the known universe and many more just to name a few
This retcon literally ruined Dragon Ball a bit for me. It's one thing for GT or Super to shit up it's own story. It's a whole another thing to destroy the past events that this series was built on to the point that they might as well reboot Dragon Ball.
This retcon is so bad it's actually impossible to ignore like dogshit in the middle of the room with no AC on a hot summer day.
tokyobassist Not just a bit, it literally just nullified Dragon Ball and the entire story.
WillFanofMany Goku was a baby when he was sent to earth and didn’t have Saiyan Armor in Dragon Ball
WillFanofMany Yes, but the battle between Bardock and Frieza was mentioned in the manga, so that should at least still be canon.
Leave GT out of this. At least they tried to remain faithful to the story of DBZ and the roots of the Saiyans, unlike Super.
They are the exact same if you watched the movie.
This is the same person that flat out said they forgot about launch.
and super saiyan 2
@@kaiwingert3826 and potaro having a time limit
Geekdom made a video on this.
TORIYAMA DID NOT FORGET ABOUT LAUNCH. He just didn't see what she had to offer in Z.
Fuck launch
I mean i don't get why anyone cares for launch,she was just a gag and didn't do nothing at all other then getting goku and krillin trained by roshi.i honestly forgot she existed but I don't miss her much
i miss the old bardock
Man I miss chubby kid Goku, not this skinny ass Goten looking like Goku ..hate the way he looks
Agreed
Damn why you hatin on his son what he do to you
We all do
Toriyama can’t write people need to accept that
His editor had to help him a lot
Yes , we should be gratefull for the editors for getting great characters, cause toriyama is trash just look at minus
He created the franchise we love.... . The guy deserves respect
Finally someone agrees with me that’s why I’m writing my fan manga dragon ball Nebula
of course but i feel like his time is up the amount of contradictions dragon ball has its just annoying us old fans will understand which story is which but the new generation watching will be confused af
What type of Mandela effect is this!
Despite Dragon Ball not having a super complex story:
OG Bardock's story is about a warrior whose race is controlled by a Tyrant, with a will to change it all. Later, when he gets the power to observe the outcome of his actions, he attempts to change fate in honor of his fallen team mates, who died by their tyrant's actions. In the end, Bardock realizes his efforts were futile and the demise of his planet was set in stone. Moments before accepting that fate, he witnesses a vision of his son facing the ruler doomed his people. Bardock smiles as he shouts his son's name.
DBS Bardock is about a family man who cares for his wife and son and only wishes the best for him, and, as a last wish, hopes his son can change his race's course.
I made my choice ;)
New Bardock is legit all of this combined lol.
@@NBM1942 stop the cap
@@NBM1942 Z Bardock never entirely cared until he saw the future, Super Bardock just had a complete switch around to send his son off to keep him safe.
@@NBM1942 nice bait bro
So... um... Grandpa Gohan still happened...? Right?🙃🙂😐
To: Smasher
____________
Grandpa Gohan is still part of the manga, so yeah.
Toriyama: ...maybe...
@@NecroCh
Look up Grandpa Gohan on Ginga Patrol Jako un Google images. He is apart of it all, still
toriyama: who's that? I don't remember
I wouldn't be surprised if they made the entire original dragon ball series non canon
*OLD IS GOLD.*
New is poo
Recent is decent
Nostalgia is toxic
Honestly we need history on Frieza’s race.
n64central that’s well overdue.
We really need one for the gods and angels.
It might be in the brolymovie
Agree my friend
Dr. Caboose no we dont
Akira could save everything by saying that this is an alternate reality.
No
No because we are on this time line now.. Which fucks everyone in the butt hole
@@joshuablackmon939 ew stop talking like that tf wrong wit u
I mean it already is though. It literally cannot coexist with the original Dragon ball /Z. Same as GT (which can actually fit better into the original overall.)
@@powerjolt7215 agreed man.
The reason why we LOOOVE Bardock (My fave character btw) is how despite all the odds and his own people dissing him, he gave no fk and still tried to change the future.
Also his red bandana (color literally made from his own blood AND his comrade's blood) is what defines Bardock as a character, It is such an important tool to the character (like kid goku with nimbus and power pole) and they decided to take THAT out. I'm like WHAT!! WHYYY
There’s only one Bardock and he wears a red bandana.
Did you even watch this video? Geekdom clearly showed that Red bandana Bardock was in the manga. Hence he is cannon
Aaron Knight he didn’t write him through he only referenced the character. A one frame picture from a manga isn’t much dude, relax.
I do not know why you told me to relax as i am not stressed, but i digress. Whether or not he created him, he used him in his story. That makes him canon. End of discussion.
except he didn't use him. he used 2 panels: one of him confronting frieza and one of him being killed. there's nothing that indicates bardock isn't sympathetic or even that he's a "bad ass" through for through since one action doesn't define someone's personality.
geekdom is wrong and he's misinforming people like you who didn't go out of their way to read the dragon ball manga or even minus
You are misinformed, because he clearly used him in the manga, as you mentioned. you are contradicting yourself. For me, i am not talking about his personalty, I prefer the red bandana design.
The question is why. Do these retcons make the story any better? Do they do any good? I don't think so. Bardock is a more sympathetic characters, but this only means, he looks even more like Goku. Aside from the fact, that even their skin tones seem to match now. Before, Bardock, at least in his behaviour, was clearly distinct. I also don't understand, why Toriyama takes out strong scenes like Bardocks team dying, the fight with Freezers men, the Rebellion. It does nothing good for this story. So question is, why even change it?
At least Broly is back.
Because Toriyama didnt create dbz, was his editor that stop him to tranform db and dbz in a joke, and forced him to create a more serious and violent show. Now without chains he is decided to create garbage for money. Thats all.
Let's go back to the 90s
Back in the 90s i was in a very famous tv show
Dragon Ball Super Retcon.
That's basically all that Super seems to be. A giant retcon and I would imagine when Super comes back, they're going to act like it's been this way the whole time and Goku knew his father. This kind of shit really ruins the integrity of the story. People like when something has a lore, it makes it easier to suspend your disbelief and invest in the story.
But goku bumped his head, that's still canon he didn't change that. Now if he does then that's different
King Savvie
Except they did
Why can't people understand this? People always pull the "it's a children's show" or "it was never that deep." Dragonball's writing was never Shakespearean, but it still had a good story that made me give a damn about the characters. Super has all of Z's flaws magnified to 100. Some fans want more than JUST power ups and a new hair color.
TacoWarrior no they didn't where, show some proof I read dragon ball minus and I'm watching the same trailer you did. I don't see him landing on earth NOT bumping his head
Do you remember anything from when you were three?
Old Bardock.
I will take " new Bardock" literally because we get Gine.
@@Heelturnkayfabe Blending Gine into the original story was far from impossible.
@@Heelturnkayfabe Gine couldve been added without retconning everything
There's also the beerus issue maybe being retconned as before and his father saw beerus on planet vegita. Vegita wasn't a small child at the time when he confronted beerus. So the battle of gods also seems to have an issue too
not necessarily... we don´t know the time line!!! goku is not a baby when he is sent to earth in the trailer and minus!! he was more like a toddler; so there is a time lapse there; maybe the beerus/king vegeta scene happened!!!!
Theres also the fact that Vegeta was shown to be alive in his kid form and spying on his father when King Vegeta met Beerus. He was shown to be the same age, and in the same design as his kid form from the Bardock Special.
So if you think about it, Super is both supporting AND going against previously established lore at the same time.
So their gonna retcon the movie as well?
Yea only if vegeta turns out to be born around goku/broly time. hope not.
Toriyama cant be this dumb
Rikenzu Plays inconsistency
Did people forget that Sayains are ruthless and bloodthirsty alien fighters who kill people for sport?
That’s what I’m saying 💀💀
Just make a dragon ball: reboot Toriyama
M Rizky Putra Wardhana do you want the internet to go to war? Look how much discourse there is from Bardocks reboot alone
Am I the only one who notices frieza’s weird blue scouter
and that he is naked in bardocks movie he had an armor too
@@rashidmohammad262 BARDOCKS SPECIAL ISNT CANON
i dont get it now, were'nt sayians supposed to be brutes and bardock was like that in dbz but now he is now a human lol and people are supporting this
Even before the retcon not all saiyans were like that. They were known for being pirates and pillagers but that wasnt true for every single saiyan
@@Nuigi12 It was told as that, but Toriyama never really showed any "good" saiyan. In fact, he did the opposite, pretty much every new saiyan that we knew fights Goku to defend his planet.
Saiyans being brutes and savages were the key component that made them different from humans on an emotional and mental level. Without that, they're literally humans with powers.
Plus, it kinda defeats the original canon of Goku being savage as a baby and him being a rare exception in his race due to the fact that he was good and kind.
@@jairomelchor8024 Bardock. Not a perfectly pure saiyan but a good one. Gine was Pure hearted. Yamoshi. The Legendary Super Saiyan (Which may or may not be the same guy as Yamoshi, not confirmed.)
@@Nuigi12 no gine was never pure hearted,everyone of bardock's friends killed innocents and conquered planets to sell them.This bullshit about gokus mother was just made up by fans for their own fucking weird fantasies
@@Nuigi12 Bardock was not a good person, he enjoyed slaughtering innocents and life-wiping planets, there's not even any real evidence that he became a "good" person, he was just trying to save his own race.
Having feelings is not the same as being a good person.
I'm just gonna act like Minus never happened. Even for the Broly movie. I'll only acknowledge lil Vegeta, lil Raditz, and the Broly parts of the backstory.
How'd that work out
And Nappa with Hair
@@andrewvillatoro4605 nappa with hair was also in dragon ball z history tellikg parts.
@@DragoDan7786 still would have made sense. Z bardock can fit in with the new timeline with just minor adjustments
All Toriyama could've done was just add more stuff to the Bardock that we already knew. Like he gets soft when he is near Gine. Instead of having him worrying about Goku just have him visit Gine and when he sees Goku just have him say "He gotten that big already" telling the audience he doesn't visit that often and haven't seen his kid since he was born. Because Bardock gets soft near Gine that scene with him showing "Love" makes since because Gine is nearby.
All this retconning for a canon Broly, is it truly worth it ….? My childhood, reduced to non-canon.
The only real retcon is of Bardock dying by standing in front of Freeza's ball of energy.
All other details of Bardock's story were already non-canon.
And Goku being referred to as a 'baby' means nothing because Japanese has no word for 'toddler'. Toddlers are called 'babies' in Japan.
Though really, you enjoyed a sweet show when you were a child, and that remains unchanged. Just try to enjoy this upcoming movie for what it is. Everything from the past still exists and is readily available to view again at your pleasure. : )
Ryan :( T.T
Ages were given so the word baby means nothing.
No its not. I keep saying this!!! Leave bardock and broly alone please. This is gonna ruin the story i promise you. Someone give Toriyama his meds in his apple sauce and tell him to call it night, thank you for my childhood, but don’t ruin it during my adulthood.
To: TonkaTruck ELI
___________________
Have you watched DBS at all?
The story is already ruined.
I've literally been waiting for this all day
Old Bardock is better, end
well they allways can say its got a Multiverse or Multitimelines where events happend diffrently, best example is future Trunks xD ^^
Beosor True:)
Hope they do that
The things I want from the tv special in the movie are:
1) Headband
2) Green armour
3) Bardock attacking frieza
Well 3 happened
@@Nuigi12 it seemed like such an afterthought tho
Toriyama needs to retire. Pass the torch... Every one of his ideas recently, from Gokus personality to minus, are crap
He tried and we got the dragon ball super manga...
To: That Guy
______________
Incorrect.
Akira still writes DBS manga, Toyotaro only fill in the blanks.
no thank you, toriyama can continue dragon ball, you can avoid watching it if you don't like it
Nick Steve Goku’s personality?
Everyone's got a right for criticizing who they want. Personally, I think it's time Toyotaro takes the mantle, though I've heard he also has some downfalls.
The clips you sent from the Broly trailer also retcon something else:
In Dragon Ball Z, Super, and the original Dragonball manga, planet Vegeta is red from space. But in the Broly trailer is looks teal like Namek.
His new armor is trash the old one was way better
tas Warren how you know he won’t change into after Goku gets sent off
@@dreezy2286 i dont but for now imo its trash and u know it
I like his new one better. Was never a fan of the stripe armor design, always loved the pads more.
Idk. I can't unsee it as a tank top
This version is going to be called Bardock-Nappa
Honestly i like the old saiyan armor bardock the special thr new one looks terrible
Not pissed, so pumped. Also I'll make my opinion of new bardock after the movie. If I'm just going off minus, I prefer the older version, but I have a feeling they will somehow combine them in the movie.
THATS WHAT I THINK TOO!!!
Like I really do feel like Bardock could still rebel AND be a good dad. If they end up combining Minus Bardock and FoG Bardock, I'll be a happy camper
Daniel Crecca If that happens I’ll be happy af lol
Daniel Crecca I hope they combine the two. That would so much better but they don’t have the revolt scene so I think that’s highly unlikely.
@@SpeakHerMusic same
@@apricotmadness4850 well in my one reply I said I think that's where the story might split. Two scenes made me think this, one was from the TV special when everyone laughs at bardock for trying to start the revolt, if it's a combination of the two bardocks he should be smart enough to know he's damaged and can't fight freeza alone, two the scene from the trailer when he's in the ship and asks about Goku, I'm thinking he decides to heal up get new armour and send Goku away before freeza can do anything, raditz at this point is already off planet so he's safe, so he needs to make sure Goku is sent away, plus he'll have his wife I'm this version so they'll split the difference and say him sending his children away is his new version of a revolution (which ends up working). So I'm thinking they'll use that time frame of him healing and sending goku off planet, to have to freeza and beerus scene we all wanna see... Well at least I do
This is crazy, so much lore is getting screwed. I really liked the old story of Bardock
Fans will accept anything Toriyama shoves in their face. All retcons are fine as long as it's Toriyama that did it
the continuity hurts........so much
there is no continuity!!!to me is very simple!!! the old bardock was not created by toriyama so was never official/canon!!! so it is like it never existed;is like as if bardock had never existed before minus!!! the bardock we see in the trailer is the one and only bardock!!!!!
@@luisfelipesilvasampaio7922 That's what I go by.I grew up with the special but it just seems simpler to follow the main continuity
Agreed, unless he does more than 7 alternate timelines and said there r thousands and bardock special happened in another reality then it would work for me.
@@zerefdark6370 Yeah😂
OG Bardock will forever be the real Bardock for me! They made him soft like Goku >:(
Bardock the real hammy boi
Also **First**
"Damn, that shit is HEAT. Canon now." - Akira Toriyama
He's still a brilliant scientist right?
That'll do pig. That'll do.
Thanos: I destroyed HALF of the universe.
Spider-Man: Telling lies
Zeno:I destroyed an ENTIRE universe!
Toriyama: I don’t feel so good....
Toriyama: Well....I guess it’s time to MINUS the Dragon Ball series.
I think the zeno one was I destroyed 6 Universes!
I actually didn't know Toriyama put a scene from the Bardock film into his manga. For a long time I just thought Bardock was an anime-only character. That's actually super interesting.
I've heard a LOT of people saying none of this was a retcon because it was never in the manga, but cool to see it actually was!
I like the compassion the new Bardock has, but I prefer everything else about the old Bardock
The ORIGINAL Bardock is the Great rebellious Saiyan Warrior!!!! The New Bardock is kinda ,,, umm, idk. Not very Warrior like👎
he is supermans dad in dragon ball
The New Bardock was still one of Frieza's soldiers who participated in the genocide of millions.
That’s because he was an average fighter but a BRIILIANT SCIENTIST
@@bradenbungard9035 😂😂😂😂
He must have hit his head as a kid.
Toriyama is killing his legacy
On purpose
@@devastator44 for money... sad...😔
Dat Boi “is”? Has been.
Nah
Chad classic Bardock vs Virgin minus Bardock
Huns With Guns but he has gine in minus, not in classic
hows he a virgin if he had goku and Raditz...
Unknown Error115 Whoosh
MOVIE WILL BE GREAT I GUARANTEE IT BROLY AND EVERYONE PAST THEN ACTION FIGHT SCENES IN PRESENT so this movie would be better than battle of gods too
Literally makes no sense since minus Bardock is the one with a bih
Toriyama actually made DBZ Bardock canon he said it himself. Till DBM was created. Also Toriyama actually drew DBZ Broly and DBZ Bardock both of them were drawn by Toriyama but for the rest he didn't do anything with the characters. But he loved DBZ Bardock's story so much he made it canon till he created DB minus. But now the Broly movie has dropped we see Bardock did try to rebel against Frieza.
The only downside of this movie is the fact that bardock is downgraded, I've already read the manga years ago and the bardock in the DB Minus is well... i really seriously wished that the manga didn't exist back then, although atleast they showed Goku's mother but still... FFS toriyama softened up the Badass bardock, shit that guy was the man who faced frieza on the space despite being on the brink of death he's still kicking ass, toriyama did turn his character canon but with the price of his badassery getting lost?, now... he's just a fucking Superman's Daddy duplicate (didn't knew the guy's name). They ruined bardock just to milk the goddamn series... I'm still hoping that they might tweak the DB Minus Bardock makes his character a bit similar to the DBZ episode of bardock, the Bardock who rushed to the goddamn space half-dead but still kicking somebody's ass, faced frieza and died like a badass...
Jor-El
DB Minus basically turned Goku into a Japanese rip-off of Superman.
You say that like he wasn't already...?
Goku has always, (Fucking Always) been compared to Superman.
@@TehMighty I mean Goku was influenced by Superman, but Minus literally transforms into a rip-off. At least in the Bardock special, Bardock wasn't a Jor-El clone.
He is not a badass imo. He was just a brute, just another saiyan. The only thing badass was his fighting style and how outright savage he can be. But thats it
so after 2 decades we can now say dbz was not canon after all😂😂
UnknownPredz no at this point dbz is more cannon then of DB
DBGT is now the only canon story now
DBZ was never canon.
DBZ is only an anime adaptation of an specific part of the manga.
The canon version is the manga, that was never called DBZ, and instead it remained with the title "Dragon Ball".
@@michaelford8017 thanks for info👍
@@michaelford8017
The plot was the same though
Retcon good stuff that the majority likes and shit things in the old anime aren't
The Spiderman meme with old toriyama getting laughed at by his younger self is so funny to me. 😂 He really did set himself up, seeing as his memory is so out there.
umm there are people in that flash back 7:40
Exactly, bottom left side of the screen
I think those are Frieza's forces, steadily baking away from the attack?
Aporia Yakuza Exactly, the people who were behind Bardock were Frieza’s men, who were trying to stop him from getting to Frieza
Exactly! Lmao i saw this and heard his words "frieza blowing up the planet and there didn't apear to be anybody there.."
Hahaha well theres people there alright!
We will see once the movie happens and all ots greatness.
Glad I'm not the only one that caught that
DB Fandom:
I miss the old Bardock, straight from the Go Bardock
Chop up the soul Bardock, set on his goals Bardock
beastboss2001 underrated
I dont think the change is necessarily bad. I just hope they at least keep the aspect where bardock’s character develops when his allies are murdered and he swears to avenge them. Plus the bandana was cool
It is bad, because it takes away the dramatic irony behind Goku's origin and changes it to be a more generic and derivative backstory that makes it feel like he's destined to be a hero. Even if we were to pretend the special didn't exist and there wasn't any affection held for Bardock himself, people would still take issue with the fact that a lot of these changes take away from the original manga's themes and ideas played with when Goku found out about where he came from and what he is.
On top of that, changing things so his parents are "aberrations" and different from other Saiyans just for the sake of making them stand out is also somewhat of a turn off. It comes off as overly coincidental and only done so just because they're the parents of the main character. The original special already treaded a fine line by making Bardock, of all people, confront Freeza at the end of it, but this somehow goes even further than that.
And people said dragon ball gt sucked.
It is.
Chris Mabano Grammatically that answer doesn’t make sense...but Gt is alright
Trying to justify garbage with garbage.
@@chrismabano6538Compared to super it's better
I actually LIKE the second trailer. I don't care that people never like DB Minus.
The thing with DB Minus is a common problem that many shows have: Toriyama just isnt the genius many people think. He can´t write and the true brains are the editors working in the background.
I mean compare him to Eiichirō Oda for example, who has a completely clear vision of his story and all the characters in it. Toriyama just ignores and changes things in his own work like he wants. its annoying.
For me he had his climax from the king piccolo arc in original DB until the cell arc in Z. The rest was.......
This is very true. People look at toriyamas work through the lease of a little kid watching their favorite show. They can't see passed their own nostalgic bias and realise that dragon ball isn't that great of a manga, it's funand very entertaining but I wouldn't put it anywhere near something like naruto, and definitely nowhere near one piece.
Glenn Quagmire no need to be triggered mate. this is just an opinion. if you like toriyama changing canon things like he wants, go ahead.
The Panda Man Naruto was trash after the pain arc.
@@thepandaman8571 you're really going to use Naruto as an example of good writing? That garbage wasnt even thematically consistent and had garbage power creep. Among a myriad of other bad writing problems. Clearly you're one of those kids who grew up on naruto, one piece, and bleach. There's a reason anime popularity died in the US when those shows were aired.
@@fangiscool1 A. I read the manga for naruto and one piece, the anime is awful for both. B. Bleach is one of the worst anime to ever be made.
I don't understand why Toriyama want to change now what he established for Saiyans in the first place. It's supposed that Saiyans were a brutal race who live in a brutal society where even the kids are used as soldiers because they tend to be violent even as babys. So they were the opposite of "good guys". In fact Goku was just like that and only change his temper due to a strong hit in the head.
In that context, it has all sense that Bardock were a violent random guy in King Vegeta army.
But now, Goku's father is something like a scientist, a family guy and a beloved husband/father, who only wants to protect his family. Come on, even Raditz wanted to kill Goku for not being what a Saiyan must be.
It has no fucking sense. And the worst thing, it is something that somehow ruin Goku's own arc, because it's the story of guy who is destinied to destroy the Earth and the human race but became its greatest champion, and even is capable to change the evilest enemies thanks his honor, honesty and nobility.
Toriyama doesn't read his own fucking manga and doesn't even care about it.
I liked when the sad music played in the original bardock movie when bardock had those flashbacks that really gave me goosebumps!!
Remember when people kept saying Super was better then GT? Well this is what Super has lead to 🤣
What does this have to do with Super? Lmao DB Minus was published before Super
Gold Dawg super is far better than gt
+Rake Cage Pfft. In fights yeah. Story? Lmao fuck no -_-
RaginDXDemon So a Vegeta with character development is worse than a Vegeta who got himself overshadowed by Goku and had to use a fucking Machine to go SS4????
+Aokiba Ryuzaki Character development? OH OH OOOOOOOH you mean the regression of his character where he is back to his early Buu saga self where he doesnt want help and is all " damn you kakarot, how are you always ahead of me, I WILL learn this and this before you" Yeah what great fucking character development THAT WE FUCKING SEEN BEFORE IN BETTER FASHION IN THE BUU SAGA.
In fucking GT at least hes willing to fight alongside Goku with NO problems and actually suggests fusion. VEGETA suggesting fusion. Meaning he let go of his stupid pride and will do whatever it takes to save the earth he calls his home. Thats called character consistency. Which fucking Super clearly didnt have. Lets not even talk about KRILLINS fucking "character development"
The original bardock special is still gunna be canon of the events that took place. I don't care what happens in this movie the past won't change. Z and the original dragonball will always take priority
True
Spencer West i'm afraid that when toriyama wants to change the canon, the canon gets changed and you can't do a single thing about it
The "canon" in dragon ball is nothing but a huge mess and plot holes. Bringing back freiza from the dead and giving him a gold form along with many other things in super weren't even his ideas in the first place, he just does whatever toei wants him to do.
Eddie Austin Golden Form is just a new form that’s fine. But Them making Frieza first form look different is wierd
Spencer West Frieza is a child in this movie. Which makes sense considering he’s most likely around 20 years old.
It's a sign that Toriyama doesn't care anymore and he's getting too old.
a facile disrespectful statement, whether the changes or good or bad
ryan torlay Lol he's rich asf. He's only continuing the series not because of the fans but for money.
so your arguement is because he's stupidly rich he's only coninuing to make more money and not for the series in any way lol? May as well label him as a money grabbing sociopath and be done with it, while ignoring the fact he's the reason you have the series you know and love.
Oh wow the editing is awesome
Next in the dragon ball super retcons:
1) Bulma has orange and purple hair
2) Superman's parent appear since Goku is now a direct copy from origin, but dumber and more arrogant
3) They never fought Cell, but instead the androids only, and Cell will appear but have a flat story, more than the original
Next in fan overreactions:
1) Literally every single fucking thing that happens in the series
@@KonoGufo They are recconing the story line too fucking much. Of course fans would get pissed.
@ well people should have known, Dragon Ball Minus was always canon
1) Hair Dye. Stop overreacting.
2) It's called a parody. Stop overreacting
3) Continue gathering your pitchforks.
@@paper9523 Canon is a useless concept. No one can change a previous story and claim it's the same one. And plot holes are a great way to measure if a continuation is valid - better than to ask an author who now simply wants to tell a different story. :)