As mentioned before here, air takes the path of least resistance. A proper shroud with an efan and you'll have a car that, quite frankly, should never overheat if all other components are up to par. However, there's a balance to be had as far as esthetics are concerned.
@@JohnDoe-qh6mg the pusher fans are a good compromise over putting a shroud over the puller fan inside the engine compartment provided there is enough room. Each Ferrari model is different so I have different set ups for different cars. Thanks for watching.
I had this problem here in Saudi Arabia, the temperature go above 90 when ambient temperature about 42 with no traffic, I made a copy of the original radiator but aluminum the weight is less than half of the original and replaced the condenser also with 2 high flow spal fan, the temperature always less than 90 whatever the case you are driving or traffic or just set in the car idling with AC on, customer happy with it
Just a suggestion: Some black wire conduit or shrink tubing on those red wires would make them less visible through the grille. I also put a manual switch on my fans, so that if you're coming upon a traffic jam, you can get the fans going before trouble starts. Cheers,
Thanks for the thoughts., I would put a manual switch in my personal car, but don't like doing it for a customer's car because I like to make them fail proof. If they forget to turn the switch off, they risk running the battery down, or burning out the motors prematurely. Thanks for watching.
F First,,, please bare 0ver With My poor danish-english..........to me.... these old ferraries Are pieces of art. Toms Way off showing and explaning gets me feel very cloce to These beautiful machines. I love to watch Jay and harys garage, but the summ of Toms videoes is stronger and I think it is a strong statement of love and knowhow on these beautifull vehicles. Tom
Your English is fine and I appreciate your comments! I like those channels too, but I feel I have something more to add in my channel! Thanks for watching!
Looks like those fans do the job nicely, hidden away not looking like an add on component. When I drove my 1980 Pontiac around metropolitan NYC area in hot weather I was always tense. The car was designed for a 303 cu.in. engine and I had a 428 in it. 4 core radiator and a flex fan/with shroud was good when moving, but in traffic it would boil the fuel. I added an oil cooler and aux water cooling! The under hood temp was terrible so I washered up the hood from the hinges to let some heat out. I was going to suggest somehow allowing the back of the hood on that 330 to pop up somehow, then at the end of the video you showed the vents. Yes, Ferrari engineering, they were hi performance cars and under hood heat extraction was built in. Just like the E Type Jags with the hood louvers. Another interesting Ferrari video, thanks.
Nice upgrade. I love that the owner wants to drive it! My '85 308 seems reasonably tolerant of Houston heat. Where it seems to fall down is when it's cold... it never takes forever to warm up. I spent a lot of time looking at different thermostats and feel like I have a correct one in it, but clearly there is something not quite right. alas.
When you say it takes forever, how long is that? With 12 cylinder Ferraris, it can take up to 20 minutes before the oil temperature starts to move. The water temp reacts sooner, but there's a lot of fluid that needs to warm up before everything gets to "normal."
@@tomyangnet If it's cold out (say 40-50F) and I get out on the highway, it effectively never warms up. If I'm putting around in the city it can get warmish but never warm in terms of sitting where the thermostat should control it, if that makes sense. I don't get many cold weather days where I drive the Ferrari so I don't have better data, unfortunately. The 308 thermostat has a "plunger" that is supposed to cut off water from the thermostat when it's cold. Some thermostats I was sold don't even have it. Others it didn't seem to be quite the right size. I believe I have an OEM unit in there now which I did test on the stove, at least.
I’m now convinced to do a similar mod to my Maserati Indy which has from factory Lucas pusher fans also. Likewise they manage the temps on hot days (90-100F) but only when the car is moving, traffic certainly starts to send the temp gauge up. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.😊
Also remember, after 50 years the radiator can also get clogged with debris, making it a little less efficient, add that with inefficient cooling fans and maybe a rebuilt engine with more power, and you can have a cumulative problem with cooling. If the water temps fall immediately when the car is moving, I would look into better cooling fans. It's the easiest thing to look into first. Good luck, and thanks for watching.
Hello Tom. Please keep these videos coming, I really enjoy them and jump right on whenever I see a new one! So when the cooling fans kick on, the Ferrari's ammeter reads a negative value, which I interpret as a drain on the battery i.e. the electric load is greater than what the alternator can produce. To be honest, I have never owned a car with an ammeter. I was expecting that if everything is functioning properly, the ammeter reading should always be positive.
I am showing an extreme condition at idle, but 1500-2000 rpm there will will be positive voltage. There should be enough storage in the battery to handle a certain amount of drain before there is a problem. I was testing this in the most extreme circumstances. Thanks for watching and I'm glad you like the content.
I was lucky to have found these fans several years ago. No one else is making them thin enough to fit. I'm glad you like the videos and thanks for watching!
I saw that when the car was at idle, the tach was jumping around a little bit; out on the ride, when the revs were around 2,000 and above the tach seemed to read really stable, it was just at idle that it bounced around. i know little about things like this; i had a corvair i put a tach on and it ran on electrical signals from i don't know remember where and i think some cars were mechanical link to the gauge.
The tachometers are mechanical, and sometimes have a little bounce at low rpms. Sometimes a service, like you would a mechanical watch will help. Thanks for watching.
Hi Tom, like another gentleman here mentioned, I also like to wire in a manual switch for the electric fans as a backup because I've had a thermostatic switch fail and in the abscence of an engine fan you lose all cooling 😱
I would tend to agree, but some of my customers would forget and leave that switch running all the time, possibly causing more problems! Thanks for watching!
No shroud on either radiator... The America's belt driven fan would probably be fine if it had a properly fitted shroud directing all the air the fan moves through the core, instead of bypassing. The electric pusher fitted on yours is probably a big help! What is the alternator output on these 330's, and is there a more modern alternative, like the Ford 3G that has a much better output at low rpm?
I don't know if the aesthetics of shroud would work on a Ferrari engine bay! The pusher fan I added helps a lot! The original alternators were 45 or 60 amp alternators, but if I add a higher output alternator, it may overtax the wiring and I would have to add a shunt to the ammeter. Thanks for watching.
@@tomyangnet Well again, like your electric pusher a shroud could be removed in its entirety. My personal experimentation (not w/ a classic Ferrari!) has shown that American cars of the '60's, 70's & '80's with factory belt driven fans lose up to 60% of their cooling without a proper shroud. (Typically on the order of 45-50%) but much depends on how close the fan is to the core. Again, with a better (internal fan, integral regulator) alternator you would have much better charging and if you used a fan relay it wouldn't pull any more amps through the ammeter,. Remember, ultimate alternator output doesn't mean a thing. You are never going to see 160A passing through, nor that much swing in the instrument. You're just going to see stable charging system voltage where the old 50-60A alternator had no chance of keeping up at low RPM, and enough reserve that even a helicopter sized electric fan would be okay (up to the power a single belt can transmit, typically 110A) I'm definitely not trying to influence the decisions you make about caring for these magnificent vehicles, I'm just trying to point out that a lot of progress was made between 1964 & 1994. That inadequate cooling should _never_ be a problem another 30 years beyond that, and that none of these 'overlay' solutions aren't entirely reversible. I really appreciate the discussion and consideration you give to my ignorant questions. 🙂
What a great upgrade. I’m amazed at how fast the cooling was when the fans kick in. Definitely put your mind at ease in traffic. Just curious as to your go to on coolant for this era of cars? Alway appreciate your videos and information! 🤙
There's nothing exotic about the coolant except it should be basic Glycol 50/50 mix like Prestone. It's the classic green coolant we were using for years before all the other colors now available! I buy the premixed stuff to avoid all the controversy about using distilled water or not. Thanks for watching.
I don't have an ammeter to precisely measure that much draw, so would have to rely on the inaccurate gauge. Even if it were the same draw, I know for a fact the cooling was not nearly as quick. Thanks for watching.
As mentioned before here, air takes the path of least resistance. A proper shroud with an efan and you'll have a car that, quite frankly, should never overheat if all other components are up to par.
However, there's a balance to be had as far as esthetics are concerned.
@@JohnDoe-qh6mg the pusher fans are a good compromise over putting a shroud over the puller fan inside the engine compartment provided there is enough room. Each Ferrari model is different so I have different set ups for different cars. Thanks for watching.
I had this problem here in Saudi Arabia, the temperature go above 90 when ambient temperature about 42 with no traffic, I made a copy of the original radiator but aluminum the weight is less than half of the original and replaced the condenser also with 2 high flow spal fan, the temperature always less than 90 whatever the case you are driving or traffic or just set in the car idling with AC on, customer happy with it
It's all about the air movement! Thanks for watching.
Just a suggestion: Some black wire conduit or shrink tubing on those red wires would make them less visible through the grille. I also put a manual switch on my fans, so that if you're coming upon a traffic jam, you can get the fans going before trouble starts. Cheers,
Thanks for the thoughts., I would put a manual switch in my personal car, but don't like doing it for a customer's car because I like to make them fail proof. If they forget to turn the switch off, they risk running the battery down, or burning out the motors prematurely. Thanks for watching.
F
First,,, please bare 0ver With My poor danish-english..........to me.... these old ferraries Are pieces of art. Toms Way off showing and explaning gets me feel very cloce to These beautiful machines. I love to watch Jay and harys garage, but the summ of Toms videoes is stronger and I think it is a strong statement of love and knowhow on these beautifull vehicles. Tom
Your English is fine and I appreciate your comments! I like those channels too, but I feel I have something more to add in my channel! Thanks for watching!
Looks like those fans do the job nicely, hidden away not looking like an add on component. When I drove my 1980 Pontiac around metropolitan NYC area in hot weather I was always tense. The car was designed for a 303 cu.in. engine and I had a 428 in it. 4 core radiator and a flex fan/with shroud was good when moving, but in traffic it would boil the fuel. I added an oil cooler and aux water cooling! The under hood temp was terrible so I washered up the hood from the hinges to let some heat out. I was going to suggest somehow allowing the back of the hood on that 330 to pop up somehow, then at the end of the video you showed the vents. Yes, Ferrari engineering, they were hi performance cars and under hood heat extraction was built in. Just like the E Type Jags with the hood louvers. Another interesting Ferrari video, thanks.
Big power equals more heat. Modern cars understand how important it is to dissipate the heat. Old cars need a little more help! Thanks for watching!
Nice upgrade. I love that the owner wants to drive it! My '85 308 seems reasonably tolerant of Houston heat. Where it seems to fall down is when it's cold... it never takes forever to warm up. I spent a lot of time looking at different thermostats and feel like I have a correct one in it, but clearly there is something not quite right. alas.
When you say it takes forever, how long is that? With 12 cylinder Ferraris, it can take up to 20 minutes before the oil temperature starts to move. The water temp reacts sooner, but there's a lot of fluid that needs to warm up before everything gets to "normal."
@@tomyangnet If it's cold out (say 40-50F) and I get out on the highway, it effectively never warms up. If I'm putting around in the city it can get warmish but never warm in terms of sitting where the thermostat should control it, if that makes sense. I don't get many cold weather days where I drive the Ferrari so I don't have better data, unfortunately. The 308 thermostat has a "plunger" that is supposed to cut off water from the thermostat when it's cold. Some thermostats I was sold don't even have it. Others it didn't seem to be quite the right size. I believe I have an OEM unit in there now which I did test on the stove, at least.
I’m now convinced to do a similar mod to my Maserati Indy which has from factory Lucas pusher fans also. Likewise they manage the temps on hot days (90-100F) but only when the car is moving, traffic certainly starts to send the temp gauge up. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.😊
Also remember, after 50 years the radiator can also get clogged with debris, making it a little less efficient, add that with inefficient cooling fans and maybe a rebuilt engine with more power, and you can have a cumulative problem with cooling. If the water temps fall immediately when the car is moving, I would look into better cooling fans. It's the easiest thing to look into first. Good luck, and thanks for watching.
Hello Tom. Please keep these videos coming, I really enjoy them and jump right on whenever I see a new one! So when the cooling fans kick on, the Ferrari's ammeter reads a negative value, which I interpret as a drain on the battery i.e. the electric load is greater than what the alternator can produce. To be honest, I have never owned a car with an ammeter. I was expecting that if everything is functioning properly, the ammeter reading should always be positive.
I am showing an extreme condition at idle, but 1500-2000 rpm there will will be positive voltage. There should be enough storage in the battery to handle a certain amount of drain before there is a problem. I was testing this in the most extreme circumstances. Thanks for watching and I'm glad you like the content.
I like the clean and tidy fitment of the thin fans. Elegantly done. Love your videos. You do great work.
I was lucky to have found these fans several years ago. No one else is making them thin enough to fit. I'm glad you like the videos and thanks for watching!
Hi, Tom. Thanks for posting. Fascinating insights. What other mods would you suggest to make Ferraris from this era more capable for the 21st century?
A high torque starter is another mod. Look for it on a future post! Thanks for watching.
I saw that when the car was at idle, the tach was jumping around a little bit; out on the ride, when the revs were around 2,000 and above the tach seemed to read really stable, it was just at idle that it bounced around. i know little about things like this; i had a corvair i put a tach on and it ran on electrical signals from i don't know remember where and i think some cars were mechanical link to the gauge.
The tachometers are mechanical, and sometimes have a little bounce at low rpms. Sometimes a service, like you would a mechanical watch will help. Thanks for watching.
Hi Tom, like another gentleman here mentioned, I also like to wire in a manual switch for the electric fans as a backup because I've had a thermostatic switch fail and in the abscence of an engine fan you lose all cooling 😱
I would tend to agree, but some of my customers would forget and leave that switch running all the time, possibly causing more problems! Thanks for watching!
Very tidy fix, looks good.
Well done !!!
It's not too obvious until they turn on! Thanks for watching.
No shroud on either radiator...
The America's belt driven fan would probably be fine if it had a properly fitted shroud directing all the air the fan moves through the core, instead of bypassing.
The electric pusher fitted on yours is probably a big help!
What is the alternator output on these 330's, and is there a more modern alternative, like the Ford 3G that has a much better output at low rpm?
I don't know if the aesthetics of shroud would work on a Ferrari engine bay! The pusher fan I added helps a lot!
The original alternators were 45 or 60 amp alternators, but if I add a higher output alternator, it may overtax the wiring and I would have to add a shunt to the ammeter.
Thanks for watching.
@@tomyangnet Well again, like your electric pusher a shroud could be removed in its entirety.
My personal experimentation (not w/ a classic Ferrari!) has shown that American cars of the '60's, 70's & '80's with factory belt driven fans lose up to 60% of their cooling without a proper shroud. (Typically on the order of 45-50%) but much depends on how close the fan is to the core.
Again, with a better (internal fan, integral regulator) alternator you would have much better charging and if you used a fan relay it wouldn't pull any more amps through the ammeter,.
Remember, ultimate alternator output doesn't mean a thing. You are never going to see 160A passing through, nor that much swing in the instrument.
You're just going to see stable charging system voltage where the old 50-60A alternator had no chance of keeping up at low RPM, and enough reserve that even a helicopter sized electric fan would be okay (up to the power a single belt can transmit, typically 110A)
I'm definitely not trying to influence the decisions you make about caring for these magnificent vehicles, I'm just trying to point out that a lot of progress was made between 1964 & 1994.
That inadequate cooling should _never_ be a problem another 30 years beyond that, and that none of these 'overlay' solutions aren't entirely reversible.
I really appreciate the discussion and consideration you give to my ignorant questions. 🙂
What a great upgrade. I’m amazed at how fast the cooling was when the fans kick in. Definitely put your mind at ease in traffic.
Just curious as to your go to on coolant for this era of cars?
Alway appreciate your videos and information! 🤙
There's nothing exotic about the coolant except it should be basic Glycol 50/50 mix like Prestone. It's the classic green coolant we were using for years before all the other colors now available! I buy the premixed stuff to avoid all the controversy about using distilled water or not.
Thanks for watching.
Did you check the difference in amps how much different they are?
I don't have an ammeter to precisely measure that much draw, so would have to rely on the inaccurate gauge. Even if it were the same draw, I know for a fact the cooling was not nearly as quick. Thanks for watching.