Saturnalia Explained
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What is Saturnalia? You may have heard of this Roman holiday, but the details are scant and fragmentary from Roman sources. This video explains what we know about Saturnalia and whether or not it influenced the institution of Christmas.
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PRIMARY SOURCES:
Chronographia anni 354
Seneca, "Moral Letters"
Lucian, "Saturnalia"
Athenaeus, "The Learned Banqueters"
Plutarch, "Moralia"
Macrobius, "Saturnalia"
Martial
Suetonius, "Augustus" and "Vespasian"
Pliny, "Letters," 4
Historia Augusta, Life of Verus, 7
Justinus
"Collection of Memorable Things"
Epictetus, "Discourses"
Catullus 14
Hippolytus, "Chronograph" and "Commentary on Daniel"
Julius Africanus, "Chronograph"
Augustine "On the Trinity"
On Solstices and Equinoxes
SECONDARY SOURCES:
Andrew McGowan, "How December 25 Became Christmas," www.biblicalarchaeology.org/d...
C. Philipp E. Nothaft, "Early Christian Chronology and the Origins of the Christmas Date: In Defense of the 'Calculation Theory,'" QL 94 (2013), 247-265.
Thomas Schmidt, “Calculating December 25 as the Birth of Jesus in Hippolytus’ Canon and Chronicon,” Vigiliae Christian 69 (2015) 542-563: tcschmidtblog.files.wordpress...
Fanny Dolansky, "Celebrating the Saturnalia: Religious Ritual and Roman Domestic Life,” Chapter 29 in A Companion to Families in the Greek and Roman Worlds," 2010.
Gaston Halsberghe, Cult of Sol Invictus, Brill 2015.
Saturnalia is the second most famous Roman holiday. The most famous Roman Holiday has to be the one with Audrey Hepburn.
OK, Boomer!
It's nicki minaj 💅🏾
Ugh… you did make me smile against my will
This is the best response.
Golden
Ah, Saturnalia. Yet another casualty of the "If everybody knows it, then we don't need to write in detail about it" mentality that, unfortunately, doesn't do much to help future generations understand the past.
That's the point unfortunately.
Corey Murray it doesn’t? Of course it does!
Real Donald Trump lol 😂 nobody and i mean nobody outside of europe believed in roman mythology.
We need to save more often
They just didn't anticipate a violent wave of christianisation to suppress and defacto eradicate their culture
How much you explain your sources is something the rest of TH-cam needs to do.
Ironic, I was getting annoyed by him telling the audience what to think and what not to believe. Prior to the current year madness, historical stories were told and you were not moralized or passively aggressively dismissed.
@@notsocrates9529you might want to learn about the historical method. Some people simply do know better. That's why almost all literate society have had some version of a class of scholars... For centuries in fact.
Everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint. But some viewpoints are more valid and more valuable than others.
@@RobespierreThePoof Do you make it a habit of talking down to people in a condescending tone or assume they are unfamiliar with basic concepts learned in a 4 year institution?
The War on Saturnalia! Can’t even say “Happy Saturnalia” any more without people getting all upset
Your hilarious 🖖
Make saturnalia great again!
I miss the carols...
Thanks, I needed that
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's always important to remember when studying similarities between religions that correlation doesn't mean causation.
If you read the Bible it's not about religion it's about your own personal relationship between you and God almighty creator of Heaven and Earth and your choice to be good and evil.
For a moment I thought that you had a gold bong in the back
Kaleidoscopes actually.
explains his strange claims
Romans created Christianity to control the masses...
@@rubenashleywesterhoff2664 They may sound strange, but they are not. Satan, the devil, leads the whole world astray.
so, egyptions had the hole "jesus-story" (diferant names and stuff, the rest, all the same) 1000's of years before christ was a thing. dit the devil do that 2 @@dewnotbdeceived80 ?
I really appreciate the diligence this channel shows when it comes to making claims and walks the viewer through how the ideas presented were reached. The videos become digestible mini-lessons in approaching complex issues in general.
Preston Smith It was a collection of incomplete histories and opinion. Nothing concrete at all. And in the end, none of this matters. It’s what it means to the individual today that matters. This left with a big ,”so what?”
His claims are all wrong, 25 of Dec is the lowest location of sun in its analemmma movement. All has to do with the planet movements and the sun. He doesn't tell you that
@Preston Smith Hear, hear!👏 ...plenty of interesting information, which provides plenty of opportunities to dig further! (if so inclined)😊
@@khashy87 Because it's irrelevant to the histories of saturnalia
HERE is The Original Semitic Text. You NEED to READ This
YaH The Heavenly FATHER was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
A few notes I should have included: Western churches celebrate Christmas Dec 25. Some Eastern Orthodox churches celebrate Jan 7 while Jan 6 is the celebration of Epiphany. The difference in the days is due to the shift from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar (the latter wasn’t introduced until hundreds of years later). Dec 25 on the Julian calendar correlates with Jan 7 on the Gregorian calendar. Celebrating Christmas on January 6, as the Armenians do, predates the introduction of the Gregorian calendar. In fact, to this day, when celebrating in Jerusalem, the Armenian Patriarchate shifts Christmas ahead to January 18.
ReligionForBreakfast thank you!
That is super interesting. I would love to learn more about that.
@@ReligionForBreakfast, it has roots in Protestant resistant to the Pope's changing of the calendar. Different versions of the Cherry Tree Carol include a verse relating to it but the date given varies depending on when the version referred to was written.
Perhaps an entire video (or more) on how the Julain>Gregorian change affected Christian holidays would be useful.
What about 6 other Pagan Winter Solstice Holidays:
1) Dísablót, an event attested from Old Norse sources as having occurred among the pagan Norse
2) Mōdraniht, an event attested by Bede as having occurred among the pagan Anglo-Saxons on what is now Christmas Eve
Julebord, the modern Scandinavian Christmas feast
3) Lohri, a Punjabi winter solstice festival
Saturnalia, an ancient Roman festival in honor of the deity Saturn, held on 17 December and expanded with festivities through 23 December
4) Yaldā Night, an Iranian festival celebrated on the "longest and darkest night of the year."
5) Koliada, a Slavic winter festival
6) Yule is a festival historically observed by the Germanic peoples. Scholars have connected the original celebrations of Yule to the Wild Hunt, the god Odin
2:22 I love that their dice were exactly like ours, just made of clay
It's like the flintstones
No, the flintstones use flintstone dice, duh!
Their dice was not like ours, OURS are like theirs....big difference.
Eastern orthodox churches celebrate christmas in January because we calculate it based on the Julian calendar, and january 7 is actually 25 december in the Julian calendar
Not all Orthodox do that.
@@trevbarlow9719 True, only those loyal to tradition do that
@@NarednikLobanja How so? And by "tradition", do you mean "Tradition" with a big letter T?
@a w not some celebrations, all of them. The Serbian orthodox church uses the julian calendar as a basis, and the dates there are translated into the gregorian calendar for general use, for example Christmas as I said in the first comment
HERE is The Original Semitic Text. You NEED to READ This
YaH The Heavenly FATHER was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Thank you for your well-researched essay about Saturnalia. I really enjoyed it.
The way its explained with reference to sources and how things were interpreted in this video is just fabulous
Really enjoyed this, thanks! Only thing I'd add is that Saturnalia-like role reversal and the election of mock-kings continued into the medieval and early modern periods in much of Europe, becoming/remaining a common part of the Christmas festivities. So there is one more connection or cultural afterlife there!
Do we know to what degree there's an actual link/continuity there?
Oskar Henriksen The extent to which a continuity can be established I don't know. Certainly, in England, members of the clergy writing in the early 13th century complained of an already long-established tradition of inversion and misrule during the Christmas festivities. Misrule was also a major part of Christmas in medieval France that was similarly seeing some push-back from the Church in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. Despite these criticisms, misrule traditions continued to flourish in both countries (usually supported by the Church). So the medieval tradition predates the twelth century. But that still leaves a bit of a gap to the Saturnalia or, say, the 7th century Christianisation of Britain, in which - as far as I know - we can only speculate. I imagine any link has to be a cautious one while still recognising the similarities that hint to a possible basis in/memory of the Saturnalia - whether as a direct/evolving continuity or as a revived practice.
But I'd be delighted if anyone knows any more about the origins of the medieval carnival/misrule practices.
A lot of this straight up eerily reminds me of the boy bishop phenomenon in some mediaeval Catholic countries, where a young boy would be made bishop from the feast of St. Nicholas to the feast of the Holy Innocents, lasting from early Advent and ending three days into the 12-day Christmas period. It is claimed that a young boy and his friends would be dressed up as a bishop with his college of presbyters and would lead all the ceremonies and offices except Mass (and presumably sacraments). There's a black-and-white video of this happening in 1935 on TH-cam: th-cam.com/video/nnahmDRAKko/w-d-xo.html
As a concrete example of how Christians may have christianised pagan celebrations with Christian content ('He hath brought down the rulers from their thrones, but hath exalted the humble.'), the boy bishop phenomenon makes sense. However, as an explanation for the whole phenomena of Christmas, I concur that the evidence suggests that more is going on here than simple borrowing and imitating. Especially because many mediaeval western Christians until the Reformation fasted and abstained from meat, eggs and/or dairy and were in the more penitential season of Advent before erupting into the Twelve Days of Christmas on the 25th until January 6th. If the liturgical calendar is reflective at all of how the predecessors of the mediaevals treated pagan festivities, a plausible theory would be that they early Roman Christians fasted during the Saturnalia, while developing the boy bishop phenomenon, until they hit Christmas, when they then subsequently had their own separate festivities.
Rituals of inversion are very common in human culture, as is sanctioned disorder. It doesn't imply continuity, it's just a thing humans do.
I was also going to add this!!! Medieval Christmas celebrations (in England, at least, I'm not sure where else) were uncannily similar to those of Roman Saturnalia celebrations. Shakespeare's Twelfth Night is set on the Twelfth Night of Christmas (January 6). Super interesting, and @xoxb2, the specific ways ritual inversion was used do imply continuity.
"Feasting of slaves" sound like they eating them instead.
Almost, if it were "feasting on slaves", then yes, they were being eaten. 😁👍
in a way, aren't the rich always eating the poor?
I thought the same way
Feast in Greek means “accommodate, feast, entertain”
One of your best yet. So refreshing to see short, concise videos based on peer-reviewed research.
Whoa!
Great job!
Thank you for putting this video together. I am sharing this with my family and friends.
This is so respectful and full of facts.
I'm seriously impressed by the research that you do and still have time to make a youtube video on it. Cudos!
Would love to see a video on the significance of Saturn & Jupiter aligning this year during Saturnalia on Dec 21st the winter solstice!
I just visited your channel and I’m overwhelmed by the vast knowledge! I have been searching for a channel like this! ☺️😍
So glad to hear it! Welcome to the channel! I publish videos on the academic study of religion with a particular focus on ancient Mediterranean religion.
*THANK YOU* for creating & sharing this! 🤗💖 I love all the data you're sharing & I love the fact that you're citing the sources! So-o-o *THANK YOU AGAIN!*
Another well researched and presented video. As a church minister am intrigued as to who you are and your background. Your videos are a good source of material for an academic study of theology but also for anyone wanting to know more about their faith.
This is some high level information. Thank you.
Andrew, thank God. I needed something stimulating today.
OMG. The fact that he's so factual and makes an effort to cite all his sources makes him so hot!
what the! LOL did you just say it makes him hot? okay we all have our emotional days every once in a while, even as a guy so ill just move along
I'm so ready to get down on my knees and receive his seed all over my face
Oooohh talk nerdy to me! I've always had a thing for nerds, and true intelligence and being able to debate all night long makes my pants just fall off... but *physically* my type of guy is big and tall probably bearded - super masculine big dudes, you know? Hands like meat hooks, so wide I can hide in their shadow. Do you know how hard it can be to find that combo? Or at least how hard it was back before the MCU made it mainstream and cool to like classically nerdy stuff?
In all my years of searching I only ever found one - he had been a dungeon master in high school, but had grown up on his family's farm doing hard work his whole life. And he listened to hard rock and metal! What a combo! And he absolutely *loathed* being the center of attention so we never fought for the spotlight that I needed *so badly* back then....
I married that man 6 weeks after we met, and Friday is our 20th anniversary. Ladies, go and find your nerd! He's out there, waiting! And he will love and cherish you in a way that no one else ever has. I promise.
Ugh couples comments the world has officially ended. We are now devolving.
@@spearshaker7974 wtf is wrong with u
Wow perfect timing .. I was just researching Macrobius.
Quite interesting.
An old Brazilian tradition, now only followed in tinny sleepy villages, we used to celebrate was "the Folly of Kings" in Janurary 6. Raucous groups of men in costume, dressed as soldiers and kings, go door to door, demanding entrance, asking for alcoholic beverages and singing loudly while they run about the house. It is supposed to be a celebration of the visit of the three magi, but it looked a lot more like a reenactment of Herode's soldiers searching for the Messiah after he was born, if you ask me.
The few places where it is still held as a tradition have it a LOT tamer than it used to be, though, with mostly just songs and a well behaved parade.
In Puerto Rico we do the Three Kings Day but is essentially like a second mini-christmas for kids. Kids will leave grass to feed the camels and the next day there’ll be gifts under the bed. Some towns got big parades.
That was so enlightening. Thank you so much for this perfect explanation 😊
Another slam dunk, my man. Thank you so much for this channel.
This Saturnalia (2020) we get 'by Jove' as well - the great conjunction as Saturn and Jupiter line up closely as seen from Earth. Dec 21 and a coupla days either side...
Would've been here sooner but TH-cam didn't tell me my favorite channel posted
Matthew Melson
Same here
You're doing great Andrew! Im waiting for that great 100k as much as you. Keep up the good work
Thank you so much. I always learn more from your videos.
the end of this is fascinating. i grew up mormon and was always told that jesus was *actually* born on april 6th but that we celebrated christmas because that was just the way it was done. interesting to learn that the april 6th date has history in mainstream christianity too
I grew up Mormon too and was also told that! Very interesting!
"...that was just the way it was done"????...crazy
Look at the many Neolithic sites throughout Ireland and the UK. Winter Solstice has been important for a very long time.
It was celebrated in Russia, and Georgia for 5housands of years too. This need to link everything of important to a tiny set of romans is frustrating and dishonest.
@@jeannineros8813 well it's more that the Catholics were roman, yknow maybe this detail is a liiiiittle important here, and you are trying to say that the Catholics arent doing harm because so many other cultures do it is a bit stupid. Let the people hate on catholics
You seem to miss the point
@@nateharris5012 the point was that Dec 17 tp 25 is the time of solstice. The fact that the romans had a festival in that time, does not make that a Christmas festival.
HERE is The Original Semitic Text. You NEED to READ This
YaH The Heavenly FATHER was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Fascinating and excellently explained. Thanks
Whenever I get a notification that you've posted a new video, I know it's going to be good.
I've always heard that the entire thing to do with December 25th has to do with astronomical happenings. My understanding was that the 21st is the shortest day of the year, but the sun doesn't begin it's treck back north for another 3 days. So the 21st is the death of the Sun of god, it stayed dead for 3 days (22,nd 23rd, 24th) and on the 25th the Sun of god is risen on Earth because it's movement back toward summer is noticible. Not that this has a whole lot to do with Saturnalia that I know of, but it did have an influence on how Christians took pagan holidays and "christianized" them.
Back when Constantine was the emperor of Rome and he adopted Christianity to be the ruling religion and everybody joined in, actually they were ordered to join in and the pagans as well and they brought a lot of their beliefs secretly into the Christian church so needless to say instead of the church transforming the Heathen the Heathen transformed the church and the rest is history
This is interesting and something I didn't think as related, but makes sense in many aspects and even spill over holiday combinations. The more I learn, the more learning I need it seems. I remember being told, when I was young, that Christmas was created because the church needed money during the cold season and it stuck because Jesus was born in October. It could be a combination of so many things, one day we'll have all the pieces.
I've never heard that but it sounds contrived. Early astronomers wouldn't have had such a ridiculous notion about the sun staying 'dead' for 3 days, and Christians definitely wouldn't have associated such a resurrection-myth with Christ's birth. It seems that December 25th on the Christian calendar was contemporaneous with but not really preceded by any specific Roman tradition other than being in the same general vicinity as the Solstice which everybody everywhere had some sort of celebration associated.
The winter solstice is not pagan. Anyway can observe it and create meaning out of them. Pagans do not own or create the winter solstice.
I was going to make a video along the lines of, "How pagan is Christmas?" But your video is much more well researched and informative than anything I can make atm. I'm def gonna spread this around! People have this misconception that Saturnalia and Christmas are the same thing but they're very different at their cores. Whether or not them falling around the same time is coincidence is up for debate but people need to know just how different they are.
Awesome. Great stuff man. Thank you.
WOW!.. what a concise, and comprehensive video!
Did you noticed that he rarely blink his eyes? literally RARELY.
E A M not until I read this comment
Maybe his camera is just dropping the frames?
Who does that?
(Answer:) a synth
ROBOT!
Often celebrations in winter were done because the depression of the cold.
HERE is The Original Semitic Text. You NEED to READ This
YaH The Heavenly FATHER was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Praise___YaH please where did you found this information.
What does it means?
Is it about Jesus as in the New testament?
Is it possible that Jesus was more than a prophet?
Makes sense.
Great video as usual. Thanks!
I just found my new favorite channel! Subscribed!👍🏼❤️
Excellent vid. Would also be interesting to hear about tree decorating, the 12 days/Yule Log, etc.
OnTheFritz602
“Which is to say “Christmas”...as in Yule...Yule log. Not a log. I don’t have a log. I mean, you know...if I had a log...not in the sense that you think I said I did. Good golly. Tis the season to be Merry.”
Xmas trees have German origin.
@brmbly Would be nice if Bible-thumpers today were educated on the Pagan origins of the traditions they practice. I remember on Facebook a couple years ago, mentioning that decorating a tree, gift giving and feasting were all Pagan, and damn did I get a lot of negative backlash!
I knew it had something to do with the Moon and the Months because the number 12 keeps coming up, including the "Disciples".
Would be cool to see an accurate vid with all these Pagan traditions laid out and explained in detail. Any Book suggestions?
Like many of those customs, they are often younger than expected.
Christmas trees in Germany have _no_ origin in pre-Christian traditions that can be established from any actual sources. The custom is attested from the 16th century onward, with some possible earlier traditons involving some form of tree (some of them decidedly Christian) - whether there is a direct link or not, is pure speculation.
And the same with most other "old" traditions.
@@OnTheFritz602 Really, gift giving and feasting are pagan? More like human....oy
But what about Religion for Second Breakfast?
I thought this video seemed familiar. Then, boom! You referenced it. Thanks as always!
This is such a great channel!!!
Great video. I'm intrigued with the 3 flask like containers on your shelf.
Fascinating and well organized and documented. But no mention of Mithraism. Wait, you’ve done a video on that? Excellent!
Them "Roman Dice"....looked "MARVELOUS"....!
Very informative!! thanks
Great as always. Thank you.
Are there any cultures that do not have a major ritual in the vicinity of winter solstice?
Story Gordon Buddhist religion, does not believe in any sacrifices but self sacrifice. What I don’t like about my cultural religion is that pain is more accepted than happiness. Happiness is superficial but hardship and pain is character building where as happiness leads to selfishness.
@@arisistance1006 - Understanding the purpose of religion in one's life is personal. While I am unfamiliar with Buddhism in its basic and varied forms, I have benefited greatly from the words of the Dalai Lama and the Tricycle website which has an interesting page on winter solstice at tricycle.org/trikedaily/winter-solstice-buddhism/
@Reprezent Teez - I'm guessing you've never lived in Alaska.
Story Gordon I agree, the Dalai lama’s beliefs and principles stem from the same foundation. I believe hardship and pain is more of a lesson than happiness but Buddhism also teaches that like pain happiness is also fleeting. So we must take all experiences and appreciate the bitter with the sweet. And everything is temporary except our true inner self’s awareness. There is more to our lives/souls than this life.
@@arisistance1006 - How to participate in life is an evolving challenge. In my view one major complication is our initiating DNA which sets us on an original course which unfolds similar to, yet distinctive when we find our center. It is a burdensome blessing.
2 minutes in....NEW SUBSCRIBER
Saturn is the reason for the season.
Great Video!
This guys has the facts 👍🏽
It's not only facts, there's an intense ideological and dogmatic subtext to all his videos
Pecu Alex lol
The leaning thing is also a theme during the Passover seder - when eating (during certain parts) one is to recline or lean to their left so symbolize being free and not slaves.
Could the use of the dredel be inspired by Saturnalia gambling?
@@2degucitas no idea.
Reclining or sleeping on the left side is recommended by physicians as it puts internal organs in a healthy position for good digestion and other advantages. It is also used in yoga classes near the end of a session.
@@Startaster1 in Judaism, the reason they gave (2,000 years ago in the Talmud) was because leaning to the left can prevent choking. If one leans to the right food might go down their windpipe, leaning to the left supposedly prevents that. I don't know if that stands up to medical scrutiny.
Very thoughtful and rational presentation .
Thanks for the research and explanation☆
The reason December 25th was chosen was because of Mithras. Constantine supposedly converted to Christianity, but that seems like a load of crap. He worshiped Mithras, who was also worshiped by many of his soldiers, but Christianity was quickly sweeping through the soldiers too, and in an effort to maintain control Constantine proclaimed a story about seeing a cross in the sky that interestingly was never mentioned by him until much later.
Mithras’s birthday was celebrated on December 25th. Also, many of the first Christian churches had a Mithras temple below, and if I understand right was kept a secret from the Christians. But the people who were running those temples had to know about it. I know that many of the traditions of Mithras were merged into Christianity.
This is different than Christians taking over the celebrations of pagans, instead the Mithras traditions just being absorbed because of its connection to Christianity that most do not know about.
But it was convenient that it was so close to Saturnalia, so it's possible that it helped to convert Saturnalias too.
Nope. Nothing you said has any evidence. We know very little about what the Mithras cult did or believed, & it probably wasn't that consistent across time or geography.
@@phun1901 you should do more research. You celebrate christmas?
Actually there is no evidence that mithra birth was celebrated on December 25th. Here are some quotes of some scholars.
There is no evidence of any kind, not even a hint, from wihin the cult that this, or any other winter day, was important in the Mithraic calendar. Although three seasonal zodiacal signs are singled out in the iconography (Taurus, Leo and Scorpius), Aquarius, the sign that would correspond to notional mid-winter, being diametrically opposite to Leo, is never paid special attention.75 No Mithraic votive is dated 25th December (VIII A.D. KAL. IAN.). Nor is there any mention among the dipinti in the mithraeum of S. Prisca of Mithras' birthday, though the first line of a zodiacal poem was written up on the wall, starting, quite unconventionally, with Aries, the first sign of Spring.76.', Alvar, 'Romanising oriental Gods: myth, salvation, and ethics in the cults of Cybele, Isis and Mithras', in Gordon (ed. trans.), Religions in the Graeco-Roman World, p. 410 (2008).
Of the mystery cult of Sol Invictus Mithras we know little with certainty, and even if we leave aside the problem of the relationship between the Mithraic mysteries and the public cult of Sol, the notion that Mithraists celebrated December 25th in some fashion is a modern invention for which there is simply no evidence.’, Hijmans, ‘Usener’s Christmas: A Contribution to the Modern Construct of Late Antique Solar Syncretism’, in Espagne & Rabault-Feuerhahn (eds.), ‘Hermann Usener und die Metamorphosen der Philologie’, Kultur-und sozialwissenschaftliche Studien, number 7 (2011).
> The reason December 25th was chosen was because of Mithras.
we do not know of any date ascribed to mithras's birth -- indeed, calling mithras "born" is even a bit of a misnomer. he sprung fully formed from a rock. it's one of about three facts we know about the mithraic mysteries.
the calendar mentioned in the video indicates that dies natalis sol invicti (the birth of the god sol invictus) was celebrated on december 25th, 354 CE. sol features in the mithraic mysteries (as a separate figure), and it's not clear that we should associate what the mithraicists believed about sol with what the sol cultists believed about sol.
> Constantine supposedly converted to Christianity, but that seems like a load of crap. He worshiped Mithras,
constantine used *sol* imagery even after his supposed conversion. there's no evidence that constantine belonged to the mithraic cult. not that there would be -- it was a secret society.
> and in an effort to maintain control Constantine proclaimed a story about seeing a cross in the sky that interestingly was never mentioned by him until much later.
this myth is apocryphal. constantine "converted" because his mother converted. she seems to have been devout in her beliefs.
> Also, many of the first Christian churches had a Mithras temple below,
i don't think there is a single documented case of a church and a mithraeum existing at the same location contemporaneously, but i wouldn't be surprised if christian churches were built on top of the RUINS of mithraeums.
> I know that many of the traditions of Mithras were merged into Christianity.
this is impressive, you should write an archaeology paper. because archaeologists know *practically nothing* about mithraic traditions, aside from a hop-scotch-like initiation ritual, and communal dining.
I shouldn't have said his birthday was celebrated on December 25th, but there was a celebration of Sol Invictus on December 25th. We know this from a calendar that was found, and this was very important to the Mithraic cult. If there was a celebration of Sol Invictus, the Mithraic cult was involved.
Don't get me wrong, I am only saying aspects here and there were "absorbed". With the Roman soldiers having both Christianity and Mithras as their dominant religions there was an obvious blending of culture. This is only natural. We even have Justin Martyr complaining that the Mithraic cult was having communion, and "appropriated" it from Christianity.
There are statues of Constantine depicting himself as Sol Invictus and in certain Mithraic myths. He also had himself depicted as Jesus in frescos. (Before the long hair and beard.) Also, I have seen a video of a Mithraic temple below a Christian church. I gave the one interpretation I heard, but that wasn't the only one.
We know that Constantine didn't mention anything about any connection to Christianity until it is politically beneficial to him. With those two religions the dominant ones of his army it makes sense that he would place himself at the center of both of them.
Just writing as you speak and was about to suggest that both theories might be right when you said it LOL. I was always brought up to believe that the Celtic Midwinter celebration was hijacked (though because of the change of calendars, the date for Christmas drifted by 4 days). The reason I'm inclined towards that is because of Easter. We could call it many other things, particularly names more related to Passover/Pesach - in fact there are numerous names for the various days of the Easter holiday. But, it's named after the holiday of the Saxon goddess (or spirit, depending on your POV) Leaster/Eostre (I've seen it spelled both ways). Either way, she was obviously the goddess of spring/fertility and had a hare as an avatar. Hence the Easter egg and bunny!
As ever, I find you a very interesting historian and well worth listening to. You've clearly specialised in one of my favourite times of history and you explain things so well that it's reigniting my passion for learning more about my once most treasured subject.
But you had to mention Catullus, didn't you? 😜 He was the reason I failed my Latin O Level - twice (the exams we sat at 16 to leave school or move up to do the pre-uni A levels at 18). I did fine in the language paper but he bored me to tears and I fell asleep in the literature one, and then did the same the following November as I resat it. I had put the first one down to the fact that I was still recovering from bronchitis and was on some seriously sleep-inducing cough medicine so I wouldn't bother anyone while we sat our exams. Latin was the only one I got a D on though I slept through every one I finished. (First one - English lang paper. Did a 3 hour paper in 1 hour. Apparently I snored through the other 2... So much for being nice to my classmates! Did pass it though, just.) Ditto in November with no meds, so I blame Catullus 🤣
That "Eostre" theory is completely unfounded, btw
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Very helpful and good work doing some competent research.
Great explanation!
It's way deeper than that. January & February never existed, there were only 10 months in the calendar (March-December). March 1st (Planet Mars/God of War) was considered the New Year. Christianity/Catholicism intentionally took over 'Pagan' holidays/festivals/rituals to make their religion more appealing to gain converts. Furthermore, the biggest religion of all time is ancient Sun Worship (which is still being practiced in all modern religions). The ancient/tribal people were extremely poor & very illiterate for a long time but they knew not a 'living thing' can live or survive without the Sun
Furthermore, Pharaoh Akhenaten/Amenhotep IV (Egypt/Kemet) and Zarathustra/Zoroaster (Iran/Persia) we're the unrelated original PIONEERS/INVENTORS of Monotheism, NOT the mythical Judeo-Christian Abraham...You're welcome for the shortcut
Oh beast of h*ll, Christmas predates the "festivals" you mention. they were invented to try to copy Christmas in the hopes of de-Converting the recently en-masse Converted pagans. you ignore this because you think it will be big enough confusion to hide your sin. yet you cannot challenge or overcome the Magisterium of the Church, and your sin is bigger than the universe.
I always hear the accusations against the catholic tradition.
Are you aware of the fact that all decisions about Christianity have been made by the bishops of the eastern Mediterranean area? That there was no papacy involved by it.
Christmas is established by emperor Constantine and beginning with the 11th century The Catholic church you speak of got its form.
All the christian teachings about Jesus the Trinity and the codification of the bible including the christian festivals have been made from the 2th until the 8th century and Rome was not or just sideways involved in it.
@@antonius3745 beast of h*ll, the Church was created at Pentecost. Christmas predates all of your paganism.
besides Easter and Pentecost are no pagan festivals but Jewish festivals that are already mentioned in the Scriptures.
Christmas has a pagan date and was not celebrated until the 6th century.
And Julius Caesar did ad the January and February to the calendar. So what yr telling there also doesn't fit. The other celebrations like the baptism of the Lord called Epiphany (6 January in the West know as the Magi visiting Jesus) ) are christian celebrations on days that have also a pagan origin. But the contents is totally different.
@@antonius3745 Christmas has been around since the start. Earliest record of it being celebrated just as we do it today is around the 2-3rd Century. the pagan festivals were celebrated earliest at 90 years later minimum.
I wish there were more people like you informing and decent. Thank you. As there is a saying follow the money and those who run this insane world. Everything written and rewritten.
Kronia,the celebration was held in ancient Greece in honor of Titan Kronos and Titaness Rhea.
it took place on the night of the 12th day of Hecatombaion,(at the beginning of summer). On the day of the feast the slaves had a holiday, they could sit at the same table with their masters and in general they had more freedom, in memory of the Golden Age of the human race, when there was no slavery and heavy work.
From the adoption of the celebration by the Romans as Saturnalia, in honor of the Roman Saturn ,Kronia became a noisy festival and days of debauchery.
Youve helped me on a school project. Thx!!! I have to go sub and like sooooo. Seeya!
choosing a random king reminds me of the medieval feast of fools.
The first thing I thought of was the Festival scene from Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dam!
@@v.sandrone4268 there's always the guy who can only think about reality through the goggles social media has put on him.
Bit like U.K. general elections
@@likklej8 Not really. The idea behind the feast of fools is that it turns society on its head and therefore temporarily puts the lowest members of society I.E fools (probably a mentally handicapped person) in charge for the day. UK elections tend to favour the privately educated elite. So no nothing like the UK elections.
Just the comments are interesting enough. Wish more people would read a variety of sources before telling me what to believe and then get mad at me for not complying to their way of life. But thank you for more information and ways to think about all the connections.
I wouldn't call them interesting as much as completely bonkers and quite frightening. Some of the comments in these videos make me wonder about the madness of the people I cross every day in the street, at work, etc. And they make me wonder if I should be afraid of my fellow human. I mean, even more than I already am...
Great job! Thanks.
Very interesting history video. Thank you💐
Jesus was born in September, calculate 6mths after the birth of John The Baptist.
Yep - The sign in the sky described in Revelations Chapter 12 happened in September 03 BC and just happened again in September 2017.
Actually there is no evidence for any of these either 24 December or other date.
Even my grandma doesn't know the exact date she was born ......... So how can we know the birth date of people we barely historically know anything about ........
@Joseph Bontrager That sure makes sense to me
There really isn't even enough prove of him existing, let alone when his birthday would have been.
@Joseph Bontrager From my limited reading of Josephus's Annals, there were at least *two* different high priests named Jesus, son of .... (specific parentages upon request)
One may reasonably surmise that it wasn't a rare name, being derivative of the name of a mythical leader.
social control... yep. that's sounds like christmas
Bingo
Lol!
Controlled chaos during Black Friday.
Runs a economic powerhouse that's all! America remember too buy into bankruptcy
Sure does
I really enjoy your videos
Sometimes the channel name is egregious. This video is an example of that. This is heavy stuff! Not breakfast material. But I jest. Fantastic work, as always. Thank you so much for your diligence. Often times the information on this channel is stuff I have researched myself and I have yet to see any discrepancy in the information portrayed. Truth is the number one goal and I love it.
It is a great mistake and common misconception that Saturnalia would be celebrated on December 25th (This is how this thing even is still taught in Finnish schools). But actually, Saturnalia festival settled on between December 17th and 23rd. I was shocked in first time to hear that I had learned this wrong.
Do you mean to correct the video?
@@oskarhenriksen I'm not trying to correct this video. But, instead, to this one common misunderstanding. Whenever it is necessary to bring it up.
@@danielmalinen6337 Right, sorry, it was just the way you presented the Saturnalia dates as news when they were just mentioned in the video
Meh close enough
I did some reading on John the Baptist’s conception. His father’s, Zechariah, division was apparently on duty during the last week of June. After five months, Gabriel visits Mary. This puts Jesus’ birth near the beginning of the Jewish secular year. Three important events happen during that month. The new year itself, the day of atonement, and the feast of tabernacles
This. I'm glad someone gets it. It's quite easy to get a more educated calculation by paying attention to what the biblical text actually says and knowing a bit about biblical Judaism.
I also like how you come to the conclusion that it was a combination of both theories and not one or the other. In my opinion, either/or thinking is very detrimental to true logical thought
Ray R either way, christmas violates Deut. 12:28-32. Jesus was born in the fall at the Feast of Tabernacles.
@@elizabethprov2894 Good to know. Thanks. I'm a poor biblical scholar, but I try to understand.
That's history, we can only conjecture so far
this is really accessible and educational
The preponderance of Paschal Letters from various church fathers throughout the first few centuries of Christianity would also lend credence to the Calculation theory. Great video!
The dates on the calendar have moved so many times through history that no one could actually give an exact date - BUT thanks for trying!
Correct! One isn't born on his own birthday! No wonder why a few biblical people became older than a few hundred years.
No. The calendar has remained very specific and clear, because we can track dates based on events like solar eclipses, the reported reigns of kings, etc.
Brilliant! Just subscribed too.
Excellent Scholarly presentation.
For a brief moment I hoped that the role-reversal was about teaching empathy to both classes.
Re Christianization: Another reason to pattern holiday periods to match that of the locals is to minimize persecution by the local majority.
Don't mistake "christianity" for real faith
@David Ringlein wanna bet? Constantine thought otherwise and did so. Christmas and easter are pagan holidays, its pretty obvious if you know the bible
That empathy idea, as great as it is, is a modern idea. The past was quite brutal.
Turns out, a lot of people have a hard time imagining that people back then were much more tolerant of other people's religious quirks than they are.
I love your videos. This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Can you recommend any books for people who are interested in ancient religions/ cults? Specifically books which are easily accessible and easy to understand for those of us with short attention spans 🤪
Ouvi
Excellent analysis. It's easy to conclude the supplanting of...well...any number of alleged, ancient pagan observances that may or (more often) may _not_ have actually occurred on December 25th. However, your conclusion _also_ explains the convenient symbolism of the birth of the Sun/Son on the Winter Solstice and the Resurrection on the Spring Equinox, a time inherently associated with rebirth. I look forward to sharing this idea with friends and family...especially around Christmas and Easter.
You don't need historic connections, everyone throughout all time excluding the last couple centuries understood the sun's part in the seasons and it's just a matter of their interpretations and customs as to what they did about it.
@Real Donald Trump Aren't there too many candles for the planets that were known at the time?
@@judithfurmston3731 Not if you count the Sun and Moon as they did
I know that this is off topic from this video. However, this is related to pop culture and Religion like your video about Zelda and Religion. I think you should make a video about the worldview of StarFox. I see allot of Animism in StarFox Adventures.
Zeus Helios Megistos
Very true ! Ocarina of time is probably my favorite game of all time.
Dang, you should be my history teacher. Your presentation is so cool.
You do such a superb job collating the references and explaining the implications. I really enjoy your posts. One editorial comment though: I think you need to lose the tinted glasses and trim the facial hairs. Great job!
This guy didn't come to play. He came with RECEIPTS!!! Good Job😉😊😊😊😊 and happy Sartunalia y'all.
When romans arrived my " country" they impose the change of our festive dates for they festive dates, they even changed the entire calendar for they " time" so time foward i think some decades...
Mar Moti Yes, no one knows the date or time
Thank you so much for your research! As usual, history is much more complicated than a tiktok video.
Great content.
I was told that Jesus was actually a pisces, meaning he was born sometime in March. I was also told that that's why the fish was traditionally linked to early Christianity. Don't know if all that's true, but it reminds me, and all of us, that people decide things for all sort of reasons and truth is not always one of them.
I’ve always been taught the fish is related to the story of Jesus feeding 5,000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish
@@littlehooch94 Jesus was born 6 months from John the Baptist which is supposed to put his real birthday in September..
@@badassbees3680 9/11 to be exact
The birth of Jesus has no relation to the zodiac
Anyone watching on Christmas day?
Great info