Eliot Wildermann agreed. I recently replayed it 10 years later and cant believe how good it was. I was such a dumb ignorant fuck as a kid that i couldn’t appreciate it as a kid 😂 couldn’t go 10 hours into ffxv but this... was gold.
Taejin's Tower was pretty chill though. The floors change enough to the point where you're traveling through a different path each time and every single enemy can be avoided.
I loved Enchanted Arms, but i must admit, either you get your ass kicked because of these random encounters, or the dungeon is just long and boring once you use Encounter Zero. The dungeon in Lost Odyssey made me think, which i really liked, even though it's kinda long. Didn't mind that at all though. I loved almost every Dungeon in Tales of Graces, so yeah...can't agree with that, but i get that backtracking is annoying. And Zesteria...well...didn't like the game, hated this Dungeon.
Some dungeons you listed aren't as awful as you pretend if you understand what there is to do. For instance the Arcadia Garden in Graces F is a reference to previous Tales dungeons/forests with a similar mechanism. You just need to follow the butterflies to traverse the place without a single problem. And tbh I actually prefer dungeons with puzzles than long and boring empty hallways with no efforts put in it.
Honestly, the criteria for being bad in this video at times seems to be "the dungeon has puzzles." That's the impression I got from his descriptions of the dungeons in Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Tales of Graces F, Tales of Symphonia, and Tales of Zestiria. My least favourite dungeons generally have something more obnoxious going on, like pointless backtracking, unfair punishments to the player, etc. Also, I agree a lot on boring hallways being worse than dungeons with puzzles. It's why I found Tales of Xillia's dungeons far worse than those in Tales of Graces F. It's just cave after similar-looking cave in Xillia (and then you get to go through them again in Xillia 2).
@@ultraness completely agree. I was starting to disagree with his opinions when he got to Star Ocean 4 and said the worst dungeon from that game was the Cardianon Mothership (it's probably my favorite dungeon in the game). Then he gets to Tales of Graces and I knew I completely disagreed with him as I liked most of those dungeons. Puzzle solving FTW!
Ymir Forest!? Did you never reach the shadow temple??? The shadow temple is one of the worst dungeons in existence. At least Ymir Forest had nice music and aesthetics, the shadow temple was just a bland looking dungeon where you have to gather mini shadows and backtrack to find other mini shadows and they follow you around... problem is that they tend to get stuck and stop moving forcing you to go back and forth constantly to put them back into follow mode. Add to all this tonnes of ridiculous backtracking, re adjusting the pillars to get more of the bastards and you have a really irritating dungeon. Plus I'd argue the sewer level in Symphonia with that trash compactor is worse too since you have to constantly backtrack to get more trash to move on a linear beam, then you have to mini yourself to get around them so you can put them in the other direction... such a pain... Ymir Forest was way better than those dungeons... by a mile.
@@JetWolfEX while i overall enjoyed ToS there were several dungeons that were painfully tedious. the worst sylvarant dungeons were probably the palmacosta and remote island ranches. many dungeons in tete'alla were pretty bad from the gaoracchia forst, meltokio sewers, temple of darkness, ymir forest was annoying, but it is a fairly short dungeon with an obnoxious puzzle, and welgaia's slide mazes. temple of lightning was far worse in ToS2. temple of ice was short and earth did have some obnoxious moments because of the gnomelettes but overall not such a bad dungeon. derris kharlan was a pretty underwhelming final dungeon however. palmacosta ranch was the worst when it came to missable chests and the easiest to mess up on if are trying to get the treasure hunt title for sheena. while ToS had some pretty obnoxious dungeons, nothing is worse than the katz red light green light.
The only reason I didn't include the Fade was because I wanted to keep it a JRPG list, otherwise, it would have been number one. If I included one WRPG I would have to look into other WRPGs and see what their worst dungeons were, and frankly, I don't really have that much knowledge of WRPGs to speak on that.
Isn't it somehow fitting that the number 1 spot is held by a water level in one of the most disliked games in the Tales series? Perfect fit for a worst list if you ask me! Great Work!
Not to mention that the temple has fantastic music playing that doesn't interrupt with combat encounters. I also think the reseting is hugely over-exaggerated. There were multiple checkpoints that made traversing the dungeon far more convenient compared to how horrible people make it sound like.
dude i remember when i got stuck in that lost oddyseyy temple of enlightment and i didn't go to bed til 1 in the morning cuz i couldn't figure out how to get out i was raging so much lolz
For eternal sonata, I actually think the bonus dungeon mysterious unison was a little more demanding than fort fermantra. Primitive cube in blue dragon wasn’t that bad in my humble opinion. Temple of enlightenment was quite fun to explore and the hellish kelelons were the ticket to leveling up quickly. I miss those games
I am very mixed on this list Agreed with numbers 10, 9, 6, 2 Disagreed 8, 5, 4, 1 Dont Belong 5 Never played 3 Neutral-7 Star ocean 4 i never had a difficult time with the enemies on the mothership it was annoying but definitely not that hard. Eternal Sonata fort was more tedious than difficult and i figured out the puzzle really fast but i can understand it being annoying Tales of Symphonia- I feel its cheating to put it on a ps3 list because its a gamecube/ps2 port of a game and i feel its kind of cheating. I dont disagree with the idea that its a bad dungeon but i disagree with it being on a ps3/xbox list for not fitting on this list for rpgs that came out for the ps3 and xbox360 and made specifically with those consoles in mind Tales of Graces most of the dungeons were not bad and were actually good and a majority of your examples literally come from the end of the game. I feel this was more of a hate boner than talking about actual bad dungeon design and the forest was a callback to other tales of games that do the same freaking thing every tales game has one of these forest dungeons. Tales of Zestiria was not a bad game, it was not amazing but definitely not bad. I thought it was easy and intuitive and the water dungeon was really really easy- sure the puzzles were annoying but definitely not the worst dungeon, there are so many worse dungeons than this one and they do have a checkpoint system in this dungeon to get back to certain areas once you reached them. I feel you over exaggerated on this significantly and left out some key info about the dungeon intentionally to make it seem worse.
The only Star Ocean 4 dungeon that gave me headaches was the final dungeon. I remember getting lost quite a while, there and getting pretty fed up with it.
This series THRILLS me! Although there was some impressive gameplay during this RPG era, I feel as though it's also unbelievably forgettable aside from being frustratingly designed. Glarin' at you, Eternal Sonata.
Persona 5 Shido's Ship palace. All the running back and forth, turning into a rat so you can crawl through a hole so you can unlock a door to get to the next area with a miniboss so you can get one of the keys to the boss room. It just goes on and on.
8:21 I kind of liked the Lakebed Temple in Twilight Princess haha, but yeah most water places suck bad. Also, I kind of liked Taejin's Tower from FF13. I remember my first playthrough being kind of annoyed by it, but when I replayed the game recently and did it again, it was quite pleasant and kind of flowed fairly well.
I just so happen to be replaying Star Ocean 4 right now. Last night I did Cardianon Mothership, having no memory of it when I first played the game back on the 360. I have not come so close to outright rage quitting a game in ages, not from difficulty, just sheer tedium/no save points. The dungeon took me about three solid hours. Every time I got to a new floor I was like, "Surely, this cannot possibly be ANOTHER floor with invisible laser walls?" Aaaaand time to drink an entire bottle of Excedrin Migraine Relief. Terrible dungeon.
As much as I hated the mother ship the last dungeon was so much worse for me gimmicked floors u gotta solve puzzles in which isent tooo bad and then ur in a room with 50 mirrors that teleport u to another mirror with only one correct mirror holy fuck that took almost a hr just for that floor for me
In Enchanted Arms if you were having trouble with the Holy Beast Shrine then frankly you were doing it wrong. First you needed the passive skill to cut VP usage which you can buy the first time you're in that Desert City. This is a must buy and I'm not sure if you can get it again so make sure you have 10k of the games money (Tb if I remember correctly) to get it then. Second you do need to be a decent level going in but what most people don't bother with is the agility stat. This is often overlooked in favor of the other stats but in places like the Shrine if your agility stat is high enough you wont be ambushed. I'll admit that unless your agility is maxed out then at the higher floors of this 100 floor dungeon you are still likely to get ambushed but with the VP reducing skill and powerful enough fighters it's not crippling. All that said it's still a 100 floor nasty as heck dungeon that only allows you to save once every 20 floors so if you go in unprepared or under-prepared expect to get your ass handed to you as this is the games optional super-dungeon complete with optional superboss at the end so know that if you've managed to beat this dungeon and its boss then congrats the final story boss is going to be a cake-walk.
Funny, most of the dungeons in here were at the top of my head once I saw the thumbnail. Extra frustrating about the Cardianon ship was that I hadn't saved since the boss on the previous planet. Other people wanted to use the TV and I was no where near any of the two save points in the dungeon. Trying to rush through the dungeon while trying, and failing, to avoid battles and then get stuck in a cutscene before the savepoint! And people still defend save points! They suck! Let me save where I want, damn it!
@@JetWolfEX I also don't like puzzles that are so complex that a guide is almost necessary. To clarify, I like puzzles that are challenging that have a logical solution but don't take an eternity to complete. I don't know if it's the fact I'm an adult now or what but puzzles nowadays just seem too mindless to complete to me
This is one of my reasons why I enjoy the tales series, you’re solving puzzles to take your time for grinding, Tales of Xillia is the worst, every time you enter a dungeon you just immediately open the map, no sorcerer ring, no puzzle, no switches, no warps, just corridors left or right going to the star.
The only Graces dungeon that you mentioned that's bad is Wallbridge. It's boring and everything looks exactly the same. I can't believe you'd put something brilliant like the Sandshroud Ruins on there. An optional dungeon with a legitimately intelligent puzzle in it that's wonderful to solve if you have the wits to crack it and easy to avoid or get a guide for if you don't want to bother. And as far as Xillia 2 in the Land of Canaan... it's just so easy. You can get out of it in about 5 minutes. As for Zestiria, the water temple is annoying. Mostly how slow the slog is.
Sad as it is to say, I don't even remember that dungeon at all, so it must not have bothered me much. I recognize some of the monsters from the video, that's about it. Like every other Star Ocean game I gave up grinding the trophies / challenges at some point and moved onto something else. I just remember I played Star Ocean 4 on Xbox 360 and it was really annoying because it had two discs, and the last part of the game was disc 2 and you had to swap back to disc 1 if you went basically anywhere in the world.
Persona 5 - Okumura's Spaceport of Greed -Elephants that are so thicc that they repel/absorb/nullify almost everything. -Round corners and very long hallways you can't hide and ambush enemies in. -The goddamned airlock puzzle. -The aftermath made it feel like the entire thing was pointless.
Of the games I've played: #9 - Unpopular opinion, but I actually enjoyed FFXIII, and didn't really mind the dungeons. My only complaint was randomly high level enemies out of nowhere. #8 - Ok, that mothership was larger than it needed to be. #7 - That dungeon was kind of terrible. The game was overall OK, but not good enough for me to play again. At least the music was good. #5 - I like basically this whole game. Even the temple of darkness wasn't so bad for me. #4 - Another one I liked quite a bit. I didn't think any of the dungeons were annoying. #2 - That last dungeon was pretty much a straight shot with just a few paths to figure out. Good game overall. #1 - This game started out great, but then got to going downhill 2/3rds through. The water shrine was the only dungeon that made me think, so I found it to be more memorable and enjoyable than the others. The giant dungeon in Alicia's story was awful though. It consisted of nothing more than essentially "You've reached a wall - press A to continue" repeatedly.
I loved the mothership. It was a great "first act final dungeon". Long and tough, with some imposing enemies. And yet it felt like constant progression. And to be frank, I much preferred the Cardianon arc to the stuff later in the game. Kind of similarly, I don't mind either of the Shaft dungeons in Graces. I think these sorts of major plot dungeons should be imposing. I take a lot more issue with irrelevant maze cave and forest dungeons that take forever and are totally throwaway.
Nice channel david can't believe you've had this channel since 2006 and I've never ran across it up until recently I played mostly racing games is probably why lol
I played the first few hours of lost odyssey and I thought it was pretty cool. My brother had it for his 360 but I had a ps3 so I never got to finish it. I thought the critical mechanics were cool but didn’t like how you couldn’t grind the same enemies because they gave less and less xp if you fought them continuously.
Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:36] - 10) Holy Beast Shrine - Enchanted Arms [1:38] - 9) Taejin's Tower - Final Fantasy 13 [2:32] - 8) Cardianon Mothership - Star Ocean 4 [3:27] - 7) Fort Fermanta - Eternal Sonata [4:12] - 6) Temple of Enlightenment - Lost Odyssey [4:49] - 5) Ymir Forest - Tales of Symphonia Chronicles [5:38] - 4) All of them?! - Tales of Graces F [6:45] - 3) Primitive Cube - Blue Dragon [7:29] - 2) Land of Canaan - Tales of Xillia 2 [8:13] - 1) Shrine of the Water Trial - Tales of Zesteria
Oh jeez. Gonna be honest, I watch these videos because, despite showcasing the worst parts of these RPGs, they do make me interested in the games. However, things do get interesting when I see dungeons I have personal experience with. Two on this list, to be exact. First, Taejin’s Tower. While I see the problem, I actually really liked this dungeon, and the enemies were a big part of that. See, I actually like FFXIII’s battle system (not XIII-2; XIII-2 ruined it): make all the “mash X to win” jokes you like, but you’re in serious trouble if you don’t recognize the need to paradigm shift, and by the time you reach the tower, a millisecond off could mean your demise. In any other battle system, this would suck, as these lists have shown. With FFXIII’s, however, where that’s the main aspect of difficulty and strategy, I like it a lot. You really need to gauge how well your party’s actually doing and have the reaction speed to change up their tactics in time. For as often as you have to fight the enemies in Taejin’s Tower, by that point the enemies are difficult enough to make those battles engaging, at least for those who like the game. So yes, I had fun here. Just a shame I can’t beat the game because my copy won’t load Edenhall. Oh right, there was another dungeon I’ve been through on here. That would be the Water Shrine from Zestiria. Yeah, that sucks balls. One things you forgot to mention was how terrible even the eyes before the end are. Mikleo’s bubble doesn’t last long, and you move agonizingly slow for the duration. As a result, trying to get past just one eye requires you to be stupidly precise with where you activate the bubble. And there are dozens of them. At the VERY least, I’m pretty sure the problem tiles are marked, so if you don’t see the eyes right away, you know where not to step. Even then, though, you have to be looking for those marks.
Even with everything said in these worst dungeon videos...I'm still tempted to seek out and play a lot of the games listed. Heck, I've 100%'d Final Fantasy XIII last year and I just bought another version for another console. I know, I have a problem, I'm a glutton for punishment, my parents are looking into getting me therapy.
Symphonia single handed beats every other rpg ever in mind blowing stupidly horrible dungeons. Every single one of its elemental temples were terrible, boring, tedious and repetitive. And the non-temple dungeons were only a bit better
FF5 had short dungeons but they were well crafted. The same for FF3 and 9. They learned how to make smaller screens hold more detail and set, and appropriate encounter rate to make it a challenge but also fun. Other games started this trend as time went on such as Legend Of Dragoon, any Gameboy RPG, and especially in games like Final Fantasy 10 and Xenosaga. The player's attention span was the main focus, but at the same time it's also respectful to a player's time to reserve time consuming challenges specific to certain parts of the game. Good water dungeons exist in Final Fantasy 1 and Baten Kaitos: Origins. :D
Zestiria's water temple.... OMG! I was stuck in there for many hours... AND LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT! Honestly, that soundtrack could take me through ANY gaming ordeal! Just WOW!
I don't really understand your preference It seems you don't like hallway dungeon because it is hallway dungeon,and yet you don't like dungeon with complex puzzle because it is dungeon with complex puzzle either Beside I find some actually good dungeon design in your list
Wouldn’t say they are the worse dungeons but it’s all personal preference and that’s what you need to go on so players should play them themselves and make the decision
About star ocean last hope, the barriers are in a pattern and can be avoided. This is also a Great grind spot to level up. Also, i am shocked you did not grab the falling puzzle fortrees i star ocean 3. the number you got is actually not very frustrating except the 1st time
My pick would be the Junk Heap from NieR. Yeah, it has annoying parts, like using bombs that insta-kill you, forced rail-shooter sections, all the rooms looking the same and the enemies being the only ones in the whole game to not drop healing items (which you will absolutely need), but it's not that bad. The problem is how many times you have to go through it. 2 times? 3 times? WRONG. You ave to go through the dungeon 10 fucking times, and that's without the grinding you'll most than likely do, because the enemies drop the most useful materials in the game
The only thing that made the water dungeon from Tales of Zestiria somewhat bearable was its music. Bad dungeon, don't get me wrong, but its music was the one thing that kept me from pulling my hair out.
Graces really had annoying dungeons but it's actually the only Tales game I ever enjoyed. When talking about "every dungeon" games you could have mentioned every Neptunia game released for PS3. The dungeons aren't hard but repetitive and boring as hell. I have to admit that even though I like the humor of these games. Are you actually going to make a video for rpg dungeons of the current generation? Maybe you could make one for mobile rpgs (DS, 3DS, PSP, PSVita) because I like those videos. It's interesting to see what horror dungeons I didn't lose my sanity on. Btw: for mobile rpgs I could add Conception 2. Everything is randomly created and looks identical. I haven't played that much handheld games so unfortunately nothing I could remember right now.
The Land Canaan in Tales of Xillia 2 was the straw that broke the camels back for me! I got so frustrated at its piss poor design that I quit, took the game back to GameStop and sold it for like $9! Also just so you know, you can refresh the water barrier that makes you invisible before it wears off. So essentially it lasts however long you need it to.
Everyone always talks about Lost Odyssey when talking about 360s JRPGs but Blue Dragon rarely gets talked about. It still has the simultaneously best and worst boss music ever.
"I didnt realize how many Tales Of games were released last gen Until I compiled this list...". This is what video games scholars call (im just making that up) the Bamco effect. More games, mo' money but less polish and a creative drought.
I'm not kidding when I screamed when you named number 1. This is EXACTLY where I'm stuck because it's just so TEDIOUS and freaking annoying. I've never met a Tales game I didn't like but THIS DUNGEON.
Honestly, my best advice for the dungeon is just to buy it again for Steam, then slog through it again. In the PC version, you can save anywhere and any space within an eye's vision is clearly marked.
As confirmed by your list, Tales of games often include some really terrible dungeons (some good ones too though but man there's always at least one terrible one)
I'm currently playing through Tales of Graces f on the PS3 with my brother and oh my God, I can't agree more. When we came to Wallbridge the other day we unanimously agreed that this was horrible and that it had no real logic put behind it. Just check each and every path systematically and hope that you find the correct switch/trigger/whatever to advance and then backtrack to every room again to hopefully find the next switch etc. Looks like we're in for even more trouble. :/
I can't believe anyone likes the Cardianon Mothership. That place was awful and wrapping up the story about the Cardianon was really deflating to the natural progression in the story. It sucked. Ahh the Tales series. I actually loved the forest you mention in Symphonia, mostly because I enjoy forest type dungeons in general otherwise I agree with the critique. Graces I also agree with, especially Sandshroud ruins. Again I enjoyed Arcadia Garden, mainly due to the killer OST. Same deal with Shrine of Water in Zestiria. The music made every dungeon in that game better. And generally I don't consider small dungeons the worst but in the Land of Canaan's case.. screw that place. It wasn't frusturating or anything it was just boring and anti-climatic for a final dungeon. No idea what the devs were thinking with that considering Xillia 2 is such a solid game for the most part.
As a fan of Tales games, I can honestly agree that the series, no matter how great they are, all games has some of the worst dungeons in any JRPG. There either boring, confusing, or needlessly overstretched, or a combination of all three.
Back in your earlier lists, you've included imported titles. Maybe it's because Tales of Destiny PS2 doesn't even have a patch, but have you tried Dycroft? Definitely the worst dungeon in the franchise, THREE HOURS worth of annoyance in three parts, with long paths that could fit right in Legendia minus the puzzles. At least you get a save point every ten minutes. BTW, are you going to do a Wii list? Good luck with Pandora's Tower, if it even counts. Add in games from other consoles with less JRPGs, too!
You and I process dungeons completely differently. Disagree on Graces F completely. I've also disagreed on other videos as well. However we both agree that the bland corridors that make up jrpg dungeons these days are pretty awful.
Honestly surprised Acadamia from FFXIII-2 isn't on here. Take the 400 AF version with the enemy encounters every two seconds or the 500 AF version with the Super Mario Sunshine rotating platform puzzle sections. Both were awful.
If this included WRPG's I would say Old Olney from Fallout 3 mainly due to the fact its filled with FUCKING DEATHCLAWS Same with Quarry Junction in New Vegas Speaking of which i would've put the entirety of Dead Money on here. For starters you have stuff like Ghost People that can revive themselves unless you sever the limbs, Toxic gas clouds that drain your HP quickly Unless you have a specific follower, The you have explosive collars on your neck that will set off a time to blow your head off if you venture in range of a speaker/Radio and hang out there too long and once you get to the casino you have to deal with hostile holograms that won't hesitate to kill you the second they spot you. Plus the fact that stimpaks are rare to start off with.
I honestly thought the Wandering Dungeon was more annoying because every time you leave, you have to start over. Not to mention the dungeon is 23 floors and they're all RANDOMIZED
The Shadow temple and the Meltokio sewers are WAY worst than the Ymir forest, Shadow temple has tedious backtracking and retarded AI followers you have to escort Meltokio Sewers has EXTREMELY tedious backtracking and puzzles.
I disagree with all of your picks except for Enchanted Arms. I like puzzles in games because they give you stuff to do besides walking and battling, and to me they make the duneon better. Ymir Forest is actually one of my favorite dungeons in the entire series.
Before i even watch this video, in star ocean 4, i think he is gonna mention the dungeon that had invisible walls. I remember looking up a guide like who thought this was a good idea
These dungeons seem very awful and puzzles only make people want to consult guides anyhow, especially the ones that drag with no save points along with already difficult enemies that may void your entire progress upon defeat.
Damn man.. i thought i knew a lot about JRPGs until I started watching your stuff! Feels like i'd have to drop every other genre to play catch up.. Also C'mon Taijin tower wasn't thaaat bad. Oh hell no, the Water Temple in OoT was fantastic! Devs have to put players through their paces sometimes, that temple really tests spatial reasoning, understanding of the mechanics etc. (Lazily quoting mark brown's breakdown)
I played most of those games but I must admit that the dungeons that made me cringe the most are actually the ones that I made later in my life. For expemple, i didnt even remember that one in peticular from eternal sonata that i played day one... But immediately got bored by the mothership i tried like only when the remaster came out. I really think that the way people wants their dungeons nowadays totally changed overtime and those complicated 3D mid-era dungeons rpgs are representative of something we'll probably never encounter again. Thus, i'm trully surprised about tales of graces since this game is my last "very good memory" for a tales of since...(yeah zestiria i m looking at you). So, all of them? Totally disagree
Ymir forest, really? its stupidly easy I mean, you only have to activate the positions where the butterfly is.... I found the meltokio dungeon way more annoying, that one feels like its running forever to me
I honestly really disliked Tales of Xillia 2, and the Land of Canaan was the final straw for me! I got partially through that dungeon before just taking the disc out of the ps3 and immediately taking it to GameStop for trade in credit! Also, I don't hate the water trial from Tales of Zestiria. I quickly realized you can recast the water bubble before it's even worn off. It starts to turn blue, just cast the spell again and it's immediately refreshed. Was it tedious recasting it every few steps? Yes. Was it as tedious as getting teleported back? Hell no!
![[FREE] Central Cee x Melodic Drill Type Beat 2024 - "Royal" | chill](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/upVSAJMKLnI/mqdefault.jpg)
Lost odyssey was my favorite rpg of last gen just incredible
Eliot Wildermann agreed. I recently replayed it 10 years later and cant believe how good it was. I was such a dumb ignorant fuck as a kid that i couldn’t appreciate it as a kid 😂 couldn’t go 10 hours into ffxv but this... was gold.
@@lambosnicko the real ffxiii was lost odessy.
Its criminally underrated. It needs to be freed from its Xbox 360 prison and ported to PC
Definitely an amazing game and one that I think could do with a remaster for the Xbox One and maybe even a port to PS4 and PC.
@@scottguffie7759 i cry every night thinking in Magna Carta 2. This game is rare in Brasil 😥
Taejin's Tower was pretty chill though. The floors change enough to the point where you're traveling through a different path each time and every single enemy can be avoided.
Underrated channel
So true and he's been here for a long time
So true, he does great coverage with good footage of the games.
Wait, Tales of zestiria's water dungeon aint that b-
*shows [the Eye]*
oh...
Good thing the music there is incredible
I loved Enchanted Arms, but i must admit, either you get your ass kicked because of these random encounters, or the dungeon is just long and boring once you use Encounter Zero.
The dungeon in Lost Odyssey made me think, which i really liked, even though it's kinda long. Didn't mind that at all though.
I loved almost every Dungeon in Tales of Graces, so yeah...can't agree with that, but i get that backtracking is annoying. And Zesteria...well...didn't like the game, hated this Dungeon.
Some dungeons you listed aren't as awful as you pretend if you understand what there is to do. For instance the Arcadia Garden in Graces F is a reference to previous Tales dungeons/forests with a similar mechanism. You just need to follow the butterflies to traverse the place without a single problem. And tbh I actually prefer dungeons with puzzles than long and boring empty hallways with no efforts put in it.
Honestly, the criteria for being bad in this video at times seems to be "the dungeon has puzzles." That's the impression I got from his descriptions of the dungeons in Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Tales of Graces F, Tales of Symphonia, and Tales of Zestiria. My least favourite dungeons generally have something more obnoxious going on, like pointless backtracking, unfair punishments to the player, etc.
Also, I agree a lot on boring hallways being worse than dungeons with puzzles. It's why I found Tales of Xillia's dungeons far worse than those in Tales of Graces F. It's just cave after similar-looking cave in Xillia (and then you get to go through them again in Xillia 2).
@@ultraness Amen
Except all that shit IS boring.
@@ultraness Except in Xillia 2, you might need to travel through some areas no less than FOUR FREAKING TIMES if you do all character quests.
@@ultraness completely agree. I was starting to disagree with his opinions when he got to Star Ocean 4 and said the worst dungeon from that game was the Cardianon Mothership (it's probably my favorite dungeon in the game). Then he gets to Tales of Graces and I knew I completely disagreed with him as I liked most of those dungeons. Puzzle solving FTW!
Ymir Forest!? Did you never reach the shadow temple??? The shadow temple is one of the worst dungeons in existence. At least Ymir Forest had nice music and aesthetics, the shadow temple was just a bland looking dungeon where you have to gather mini shadows and backtrack to find other mini shadows and they follow you around... problem is that they tend to get stuck and stop moving forcing you to go back and forth constantly to put them back into follow mode. Add to all this tonnes of ridiculous backtracking, re adjusting the pillars to get more of the bastards and you have a really irritating dungeon.
Plus I'd argue the sewer level in Symphonia with that trash compactor is worse too since you have to constantly backtrack to get more trash to move on a linear beam, then you have to mini yourself to get around them so you can put them in the other direction... such a pain...
Ymir Forest was way better than those dungeons... by a mile.
I think the anti gravity puzzles and mazes of Welgaia during the escape from the Tower of Salvation was even worse than both of those lol.
oh god I stil lhave to do that accursed shadow temple.... I remember hating that place so much. those mini shadows always got stuck on shit.
you have my sympathies
Agreed. The Temple of Darkness sucked. As much as I liked Symphonia, it’s dungeon design is flawed at points.
@@JetWolfEX while i overall enjoyed ToS there were several dungeons that were painfully tedious. the worst sylvarant dungeons were probably the palmacosta and remote island ranches. many dungeons in tete'alla were pretty bad from the gaoracchia forst, meltokio sewers, temple of darkness, ymir forest was annoying, but it is a fairly short dungeon with an obnoxious puzzle, and welgaia's slide mazes. temple of lightning was far worse in ToS2. temple of ice was short and earth did have some obnoxious moments because of the gnomelettes but overall not such a bad dungeon. derris kharlan was a pretty underwhelming final dungeon however. palmacosta ranch was the worst when it came to missable chests and the easiest to mess up on if are trying to get the treasure hunt title for sheena. while ToS had some pretty obnoxious dungeons, nothing is worse than the katz red light green light.
#0
The Fade - Dragon Age Origins
The only reason I didn't include the Fade was because I wanted to keep it a JRPG list, otherwise, it would have been number one. If I included one WRPG I would have to look into other WRPGs and see what their worst dungeons were, and frankly, I don't really have that much knowledge of WRPGs to speak on that.
1000% yes. It was so bad that there's a mod on PC version called "skip the fade"
Triggered
Yes! the fade is the biggest reason why I won't replay DA:O
Fade isn't bad it's easy just involves, alot of switching
Isn't it somehow fitting that the number 1 spot is held by a water level in one of the most disliked games in the Tales series? Perfect fit for a worst list if you ask me! Great Work!
I don't think the water trial was annoying in the least bit, sure there was the oh I didn't see that eye moment but it being #1 is too much lmao
Not to mention that the temple has fantastic music playing that doesn't interrupt with combat encounters. I also think the reseting is hugely over-exaggerated. There were multiple checkpoints that made traversing the dungeon far more convenient compared to how horrible people make it sound like.
I HATED Fermata! It was an awful part of Eternal Sonata. :-( Agreed with you there.
Almost everything about zestiria was bad, the weapon upgrade system was far worse than any dungeon on this list
& why were there so many dramatic pauses in the voice acting?
Not to mention the developers thought it was a good idea to put fast travel fees in the game at a high cost.
the mother effing water dungeon
dont remember it being so bad at all. Just felt like the devs rushed too much with tht one.
dude i remember when i got stuck in that lost oddyseyy temple of enlightment and i didn't go to bed til 1 in the morning cuz i couldn't figure out how to get out i was raging so much lolz
For eternal sonata, I actually think the bonus dungeon mysterious unison was a little more demanding than fort fermantra. Primitive cube in blue dragon wasn’t that bad in my humble opinion. Temple of enlightenment was quite fun to explore and the hellish kelelons were the ticket to leveling up quickly. I miss those games
I am very mixed on this list
Agreed with numbers 10, 9, 6, 2
Disagreed 8, 5, 4, 1
Dont Belong 5
Never played 3
Neutral-7
Star ocean 4 i never had a difficult time with the enemies on the mothership it was annoying but definitely not that hard.
Eternal Sonata fort was more tedious than difficult and i figured out the puzzle really fast but i can understand it being annoying
Tales of Symphonia- I feel its cheating to put it on a ps3 list because its a gamecube/ps2 port of a game and i feel its kind of cheating. I dont disagree with the idea that its a bad dungeon but i disagree with it being on a ps3/xbox list for not fitting on this list for rpgs that came out for the ps3 and xbox360 and made specifically with those consoles in mind
Tales of Graces most of the dungeons were not bad and were actually good and a majority of your examples literally come from the end of the game. I feel this was more of a hate boner than talking about actual bad dungeon design and the forest was a callback to other tales of games that do the same freaking thing every tales game has one of these forest dungeons.
Tales of Zestiria was not a bad game, it was not amazing but definitely not bad. I thought it was easy and intuitive and the water dungeon was really really easy- sure the puzzles were annoying but definitely not the worst dungeon, there are so many worse dungeons than this one and they do have a checkpoint system in this dungeon to get back to certain areas once you reached them. I feel you over exaggerated on this significantly and left out some key info about the dungeon intentionally to make it seem worse.
The only Star Ocean 4 dungeon that gave me headaches was the final dungeon. I remember getting lost quite a while, there and getting pretty fed up with it.
This series THRILLS me!
Although there was some impressive gameplay during this RPG era, I feel as though it's also unbelievably forgettable aside from being frustratingly designed. Glarin' at you, Eternal Sonata.
I love Star Ocean 4 but every time I replay it, I absolutely dread Cardianon. Hate that place so much.
Persona 5 Shido's Ship palace. All the running back and forth, turning into a rat so you can crawl through a hole so you can unlock a door to get to the next area with a miniboss so you can get one of the keys to the boss room. It just goes on and on.
The Palace was *prepawsterous*
Okumura's Palace was way worse than Shido's, at least Shido's had an excuse for being so long.
Is this masterpiece even available in English on PS3? However, today you can already have a PS4 list.
@@asmodeus58XX The original version, yes. Persona 5 Royal, no.
8:21 I kind of liked the Lakebed Temple in Twilight Princess haha, but yeah most water places suck bad. Also, I kind of liked Taejin's Tower from FF13. I remember my first playthrough being kind of annoyed by it, but when I replayed the game recently and did it again, it was quite pleasant and kind of flowed fairly well.
Lakebed Temple was good. An extreme rarity for water dungeons.
I just so happen to be replaying Star Ocean 4 right now. Last night I did Cardianon Mothership, having no memory of it when I first played the game back on the 360. I have not come so close to outright rage quitting a game in ages, not from difficulty, just sheer tedium/no save points. The dungeon took me about three solid hours. Every time I got to a new floor I was like, "Surely, this cannot possibly be ANOTHER floor with invisible laser walls?" Aaaaand time to drink an entire bottle of Excedrin Migraine Relief. Terrible dungeon.
As much as I hated the mother ship the last dungeon was so much worse for me gimmicked floors u gotta solve puzzles in which isent tooo bad and then ur in a room with 50 mirrors that teleport u to another mirror with only one correct mirror holy fuck that took almost a hr just for that floor for me
Lost odyssey and infinite undiscovery are the best 360 rpgs
How about you make a list of your favorite dungeons? I really like this topic btw.
In Enchanted Arms if you were having trouble with the Holy Beast Shrine then frankly you were doing it wrong. First you needed the passive skill to cut VP usage which you can buy the first time you're in that Desert City. This is a must buy and I'm not sure if you can get it again so make sure you have 10k of the games money (Tb if I remember correctly) to get it then. Second you do need to be a decent level going in but what most people don't bother with is the agility stat. This is often overlooked in favor of the other stats but in places like the Shrine if your agility stat is high enough you wont be ambushed. I'll admit that unless your agility is maxed out then at the higher floors of this 100 floor dungeon you are still likely to get ambushed but with the VP reducing skill and powerful enough fighters it's not crippling.
All that said it's still a 100 floor nasty as heck dungeon that only allows you to save once every 20 floors so if you go in unprepared or under-prepared expect to get your ass handed to you as this is the games optional super-dungeon complete with optional superboss at the end so know that if you've managed to beat this dungeon and its boss then congrats the final story boss is going to be a cake-walk.
Would you recommend the game overall?
I'm not that versed in later Jrpgs but i do worship the ground FromSoftware walk on..
@@BlinJe I absolutely loved the game so yes I would definitely recommend it.
Funny, most of the dungeons in here were at the top of my head once I saw the thumbnail. Extra frustrating about the Cardianon ship was that I hadn't saved since the boss on the previous planet. Other people wanted to use the TV and I was no where near any of the two save points in the dungeon. Trying to rush through the dungeon while trying, and failing, to avoid battles and then get stuck in a cutscene before the savepoint! And people still defend save points! They suck! Let me save where I want, damn it!
What's funny is I love Tales of Graces F but I don't remember any of those dungeons, maybe I blocked it out of my memory.
I'd argue that complex puzzles in dungeons are good design as most dungeons nowadays are extremely simple and boring because of that
Lord Gohan there aren’t many if any who do those right though
Lol am I the only one that prefers not to have any puzzles in my games?
@@JetWolfEX I also don't like puzzles that are so complex that a guide is almost necessary. To clarify, I like puzzles that are challenging that have a logical solution but don't take an eternity to complete. I don't know if it's the fact I'm an adult now or what but puzzles nowadays just seem too mindless to complete to me
I didn't mind that tower in FF13. The end dungeon annoyed me more, especially the inscruitable choice to lock it all off after you finish it.
This is one of my reasons why I enjoy the tales series, you’re solving puzzles to take your time for grinding, Tales of Xillia is the worst, every time you enter a dungeon you just immediately open the map, no sorcerer ring, no puzzle, no switches, no warps, just corridors left or right going to the star.
At least you get to get the dungeon feeling back in the Vesperia remaster, along with the ex dungeons.
The only Graces dungeon that you mentioned that's bad is Wallbridge. It's boring and everything looks exactly the same. I can't believe you'd put something brilliant like the Sandshroud Ruins on there. An optional dungeon with a legitimately intelligent puzzle in it that's wonderful to solve if you have the wits to crack it and easy to avoid or get a guide for if you don't want to bother.
And as far as Xillia 2 in the Land of Canaan... it's just so easy. You can get out of it in about 5 minutes.
As for Zestiria, the water temple is annoying. Mostly how slow the slog is.
Man, your videos are the definition of relatable. I find myself talking back to your videos saying "I KNOW. I hate that dungeon too."
What is the name of the BGM during the #10 entry? That song was awesome.
I almost completely quit Star Ocean 4 because of the Cardianon Mother ship. My vocabulary was so colorful going through that
I just finished that are like two days ago. As soon as I saw this video I was expecting it to be there.
Sad as it is to say, I don't even remember that dungeon at all, so it must not have bothered me much. I recognize some of the monsters from the video, that's about it. Like every other Star Ocean game I gave up grinding the trophies / challenges at some point and moved onto something else. I just remember I played Star Ocean 4 on Xbox 360 and it was really annoying because it had two discs, and the last part of the game was disc 2 and you had to swap back to disc 1 if you went basically anywhere in the world.
The mothership never bothered me. The sinkhole dungeon annoyed me though.
Persona 5 - Okumura's Spaceport of Greed
-Elephants that are so thicc that they repel/absorb/nullify almost everything.
-Round corners and very long hallways you can't hide and ambush enemies in.
-The goddamned airlock puzzle.
-The aftermath made it feel like the entire thing was pointless.
The music was cool tho
Of the games I've played:
#9 - Unpopular opinion, but I actually enjoyed FFXIII, and didn't really mind the dungeons. My only complaint was randomly high level enemies out of nowhere.
#8 - Ok, that mothership was larger than it needed to be.
#7 - That dungeon was kind of terrible. The game was overall OK, but not good enough for me to play again. At least the music was good.
#5 - I like basically this whole game. Even the temple of darkness wasn't so bad for me.
#4 - Another one I liked quite a bit. I didn't think any of the dungeons were annoying.
#2 - That last dungeon was pretty much a straight shot with just a few paths to figure out. Good game overall.
#1 - This game started out great, but then got to going downhill 2/3rds through. The water shrine was the only dungeon that made me think, so I found it to be more memorable and enjoyable than the others. The giant dungeon in Alicia's story was awful though. It consisted of nothing more than essentially "You've reached a wall - press A to continue" repeatedly.
I Rather have 30 of these dungeons in every game If Developer stop releasing half assed games
Yasss
I loved the mothership. It was a great "first act final dungeon".
Long and tough, with some imposing enemies. And yet it felt like constant progression.
And to be frank, I much preferred the Cardianon arc to the stuff later in the game.
Kind of similarly, I don't mind either of the Shaft dungeons in Graces.
I think these sorts of major plot dungeons should be imposing. I take a lot more issue with irrelevant maze cave and forest dungeons that take forever and are totally throwaway.
Nice channel david can't believe you've had this channel since 2006 and I've never ran across it up until recently I played mostly racing games is probably why lol
Great job. Had the misfortune of going through most of these.
I’m literally playing star ocean 4 right now and am stuck in the the control tower these dumb laser walls will be the death of my sanity.
I played the first few hours of lost odyssey and I thought it was pretty cool. My brother had it for his 360 but I had a ps3 so I never got to finish it. I thought the critical mechanics were cool but didn’t like how you couldn’t grind the same enemies because they gave less and less xp if you fought them continuously.
That whole generation was a complete wash for RPGs. Absolutely dead
you mean current gen right because I actually bought a lot of rpgs then and liked them too.
I was stuck in Fort fermata for at least a few hours. I didn't understand the puzzle so I just hit the switches at random till I got outta there
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[0:36] - 10) Holy Beast Shrine - Enchanted Arms
[1:38] - 9) Taejin's Tower - Final Fantasy 13
[2:32] - 8) Cardianon Mothership - Star Ocean 4
[3:27] - 7) Fort Fermanta - Eternal Sonata
[4:12] - 6) Temple of Enlightenment - Lost Odyssey
[4:49] - 5) Ymir Forest - Tales of Symphonia Chronicles
[5:38] - 4) All of them?! - Tales of Graces F
[6:45] - 3) Primitive Cube - Blue Dragon
[7:29] - 2) Land of Canaan - Tales of Xillia 2
[8:13] - 1) Shrine of the Water Trial - Tales of Zesteria
What Lost Odessy was one of the best rpg in that time.
Dude, you're bringing back my dungeon PTSD with Ymir Forest and some of those Graces dungeons. I really think my mind had suppressed the horror. XD
Oh jeez. Gonna be honest, I watch these videos because, despite showcasing the worst parts of these RPGs, they do make me interested in the games. However, things do get interesting when I see dungeons I have personal experience with.
Two on this list, to be exact. First, Taejin’s Tower. While I see the problem, I actually really liked this dungeon, and the enemies were a big part of that. See, I actually like FFXIII’s battle system (not XIII-2; XIII-2 ruined it): make all the “mash X to win” jokes you like, but you’re in serious trouble if you don’t recognize the need to paradigm shift, and by the time you reach the tower, a millisecond off could mean your demise. In any other battle system, this would suck, as these lists have shown. With FFXIII’s, however, where that’s the main aspect of difficulty and strategy, I like it a lot. You really need to gauge how well your party’s actually doing and have the reaction speed to change up their tactics in time. For as often as you have to fight the enemies in Taejin’s Tower, by that point the enemies are difficult enough to make those battles engaging, at least for those who like the game. So yes, I had fun here. Just a shame I can’t beat the game because my copy won’t load Edenhall.
Oh right, there was another dungeon I’ve been through on here. That would be the Water Shrine from Zestiria. Yeah, that sucks balls. One things you forgot to mention was how terrible even the eyes before the end are. Mikleo’s bubble doesn’t last long, and you move agonizingly slow for the duration. As a result, trying to get past just one eye requires you to be stupidly precise with where you activate the bubble. And there are dozens of them. At the VERY least, I’m pretty sure the problem tiles are marked, so if you don’t see the eyes right away, you know where not to step. Even then, though, you have to be looking for those marks.
Even with everything said in these worst dungeon videos...I'm still tempted to seek out and play a lot of the games listed. Heck, I've 100%'d Final Fantasy XIII last year and I just bought another version for another console. I know, I have a problem, I'm a glutton for punishment, my parents are looking into getting me therapy.
Symphonia single handed beats every other rpg ever in mind blowing stupidly horrible dungeons.
Every single one of its elemental temples were terrible, boring, tedious and repetitive. And the non-temple dungeons were only a bit better
Wow!
There were some RPGs that I never heard of!
And some that i have and really like!
Like Final Fantasy 13, and Blue Dragon!
FF5 had short dungeons but they were well crafted. The same for FF3 and 9.
They learned how to make smaller screens hold more detail and set, and appropriate encounter rate to make it a challenge but also fun.
Other games started this trend as time went on such as Legend Of Dragoon, any Gameboy RPG, and especially in games like Final Fantasy 10 and Xenosaga.
The player's attention span was the main focus, but at the same time it's also respectful to a player's time to reserve time consuming challenges specific to certain parts of the game.
Good water dungeons exist in Final Fantasy 1 and Baten Kaitos: Origins. :D
Zestiria's water temple.... OMG! I was stuck in there for many hours... AND LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT! Honestly, that soundtrack could take me through ANY gaming ordeal! Just WOW!
I allways hate ff9's dungeon, where you have to light the candles to escape.
I didnt see the 1st one coming but oh the memories.....
I'm surprised that Okumura's Palace from Persona 5 didn't make the list. It is infamous for being the most annoying palace in the game
I don't really understand your preference
It seems you don't like hallway dungeon because it is hallway dungeon,and yet you don't like dungeon with complex puzzle because it is dungeon with complex puzzle either
Beside I find some actually good dungeon design in your list
Wouldn’t say they are the worse dungeons but it’s all personal preference and that’s what you need to go on so players should play them themselves and make the decision
About star ocean last hope, the barriers are in a pattern and can be avoided. This is also a Great grind spot to level up. Also, i am shocked you did not grab the falling puzzle fortrees i star ocean 3. the number you got is actually not very frustrating except the 1st time
It's a pity that that Lost Odyssey dungeon is so frustrating, because conceptually that looks really cool.
My pick would be the Junk Heap from NieR. Yeah, it has annoying parts, like using bombs that insta-kill you, forced rail-shooter sections, all the rooms looking the same and the enemies being the only ones in the whole game to not drop healing items (which you will absolutely need), but it's not that bad. The problem is how many times you have to go through it. 2 times? 3 times? WRONG. You ave to go through the dungeon 10 fucking times, and that's without the grinding you'll most than likely do, because the enemies drop the most useful materials in the game
The only thing that made the water dungeon from Tales of Zestiria somewhat bearable was its music. Bad dungeon, don't get me wrong, but its music was the one thing that kept me from pulling my hair out.
Graces really had annoying dungeons but it's actually the only Tales game I ever enjoyed. When talking about "every dungeon" games you could have mentioned every Neptunia game released for PS3. The dungeons aren't hard but repetitive and boring as hell. I have to admit that even though I like the humor of these games.
Are you actually going to make a video for rpg dungeons of the current generation? Maybe you could make one for mobile rpgs (DS, 3DS, PSP, PSVita) because I like those videos. It's interesting to see what horror dungeons I didn't lose my sanity on.
Btw: for mobile rpgs I could add Conception 2. Everything is randomly created and looks identical. I haven't played that much handheld games so unfortunately nothing I could remember right now.
In Star Ocean The Last Hope, there are the orbs that you have to jump on in Nox Obscurus. Found them to be very frustrating.
The Land Canaan in Tales of Xillia 2 was the straw that broke the camels back for me! I got so frustrated at its piss poor design that I quit, took the game back to GameStop and sold it for like $9! Also just so you know, you can refresh the water barrier that makes you invisible before it wears off. So essentially it lasts however long you need it to.
Everyone always talks about Lost Odyssey when talking about 360s JRPGs but Blue Dragon rarely gets talked about. It still has the simultaneously best and worst boss music ever.
The worst dungeon in Final Fantasy XIII was the entire game for being an endless hallway
I honestly enjoy the Temple of Enlightenment, and look forward to it each time I go through Lost Odyssey.
I'd take dugeons with puzzles anyday over the same bland random huge dugeons in persona/.hack. I'm guessing Zelda would be a nightmare for you. lol
Water temple in zestiria is super easy
Whole Zestiria game is annoying
"I didnt realize how many Tales Of games were released last gen Until I compiled this list...". This is what video games scholars call (im just making that up) the Bamco effect. More games, mo' money but less polish and a creative drought.
I'm not kidding when I screamed when you named number 1. This is EXACTLY where I'm stuck because it's just so TEDIOUS and freaking annoying. I've never met a Tales game I didn't like but THIS DUNGEON.
Honestly, my best advice for the dungeon is just to buy it again for Steam, then slog through it again. In the PC version, you can save anywhere and any space within an eye's vision is clearly marked.
As confirmed by your list, Tales of games often include some really terrible dungeons (some good ones too though but man there's always at least one terrible one)
I'm currently playing through Tales of Graces f on the PS3 with my brother and oh my God, I can't agree more. When we came to Wallbridge the other day we unanimously agreed that this was horrible and that it had no real logic put behind it. Just check each and every path systematically and hope that you find the correct switch/trigger/whatever to advance and then backtrack to every room again to hopefully find the next switch etc. Looks like we're in for even more trouble. :/
Honestly, after experiencing the dungeons from Phantasy Star 2, every other level mentioned in this videos feel like a breeze.
And now most frustrating dungeons portable edition from all kind of portable systems
I’m working on gameboy, GBC and GBA as we speak, any suggestions?
What?Tales of Graces F??? The best dungeons on all Tales by a lot! Great puzzles!
I can't believe anyone likes the Cardianon Mothership. That place was awful and wrapping up the story about the Cardianon was really deflating to the natural progression in the story. It sucked.
Ahh the Tales series. I actually loved the forest you mention in Symphonia, mostly because I enjoy forest type dungeons in general otherwise I agree with the critique. Graces I also agree with, especially Sandshroud ruins. Again I enjoyed Arcadia Garden, mainly due to the killer OST. Same deal with Shrine of Water in Zestiria. The music made every dungeon in that game better. And generally I don't consider small dungeons the worst but in the Land of Canaan's case.. screw that place. It wasn't frusturating or anything it was just boring and anti-climatic for a final dungeon. No idea what the devs were thinking with that considering Xillia 2 is such a solid game for the most part.
3:23 whoa man, how many years old is this video?
...less than a month. Real classy.
As a fan of Tales games, I can honestly agree that the series, no matter how great they are, all games has some of the worst dungeons in any JRPG. There either boring, confusing, or needlessly overstretched, or a combination of all three.
Back in your earlier lists, you've included imported titles. Maybe it's because Tales of Destiny PS2 doesn't even have a patch, but have you tried Dycroft? Definitely the worst dungeon in the franchise, THREE HOURS worth of annoyance in three parts, with long paths that could fit right in Legendia minus the puzzles. At least you get a save point every ten minutes.
BTW, are you going to do a Wii list? Good luck with Pandora's Tower, if it even counts. Add in games from other consoles with less JRPGs, too!
You and I process dungeons completely differently. Disagree on Graces F completely. I've also disagreed on other videos as well.
However we both agree that the bland corridors that make up jrpg dungeons these days are pretty awful.
Honestly surprised Acadamia from FFXIII-2 isn't on here. Take the 400 AF version with the enemy encounters every two seconds or the 500 AF version with the Super Mario Sunshine rotating platform puzzle sections. Both were awful.
If this included WRPG's I would say Old Olney from Fallout 3 mainly due to the fact its filled with FUCKING DEATHCLAWS
Same with Quarry Junction in New Vegas
Speaking of which i would've put the entirety of Dead Money on here. For starters you have stuff like Ghost People that can revive themselves unless you sever the limbs, Toxic gas clouds that drain your HP quickly Unless you have a specific follower, The you have explosive collars on your neck that will set off a time to blow your head off if you venture in range of a speaker/Radio and hang out there too long and once you get to the casino you have to deal with hostile holograms that won't hesitate to kill you the second they spot you. Plus the fact that stimpaks are rare to start off with.
I honestly thought the Wandering Dungeon was more annoying because every time you leave, you have to start over. Not to mention the dungeon is 23 floors and they're all RANDOMIZED
I don't include any post game dungeons in these lists.
The Shadow temple and the Meltokio sewers are WAY worst than the Ymir forest,
Shadow temple has tedious backtracking and retarded AI followers you have to escort
Meltokio Sewers has EXTREMELY tedious backtracking and puzzles.
I disagree with all of your picks except for Enchanted Arms. I like puzzles in games because they give you stuff to do besides walking and battling, and to me they make the duneon better. Ymir Forest is actually one of my favorite dungeons in the entire series.
Remember the horror that is the Hide and seek side quest in Wall bridge in Tales of Graces
Something tells me you wouldn't like Stone Temple that much, if you don't like rotating dungeons.
You know. I sometimes really like these kind of mazes. Sometimes...
Before i even watch this video, in star ocean 4, i think he is gonna mention the dungeon that had invisible walls. I remember looking up a guide like who thought this was a good idea
i am one of the gamers who does not like dungeons with puzzles in them, i am shocked u didn't mention the water temple in ocarina of time
These dungeons seem very awful and puzzles only make people want to consult guides anyhow, especially the ones that drag with no save points along with already difficult enemies that may void your entire progress upon defeat.
I played star ocean the last hope on all its released platforms an the mothership got me everytime
i think zesteria is not as bad as most people. but i will never defend the water shrine.
Damn man.. i thought i knew a lot about JRPGs until I started watching your stuff!
Feels like i'd have to drop every other genre to play catch up..
Also C'mon Taijin tower wasn't thaaat bad.
Oh hell no, the Water Temple in OoT was fantastic! Devs have to put players through their paces sometimes, that temple really tests spatial reasoning, understanding of the mechanics etc. (Lazily quoting mark brown's breakdown)
Telescopic Graveyard in Tales of Vesperia is aboslutely the worst experience in any JRPG I ever had.
That one chapter on ffxv... don’t remember which chapter but you all know the one I’m talking about. Fuck that place
I played most of those games but I must admit that the dungeons that made me cringe the most are actually the ones that I made later in my life. For expemple, i didnt even remember that one in peticular from eternal sonata that i played day one... But immediately got bored by the mothership i tried like only when the remaster came out. I really think that the way people wants their dungeons nowadays totally changed overtime and those complicated 3D mid-era dungeons rpgs are representative of something we'll probably never encounter again.
Thus, i'm trully surprised about tales of graces since this game is my last "very good memory" for a tales of since...(yeah zestiria i m looking at you). So, all of them? Totally disagree
Ymir forest, really? its stupidly easy I mean, you only have to activate the positions where the butterfly is.... I found the meltokio dungeon way more annoying, that one feels like its running forever to me
I honestly really disliked Tales of Xillia 2, and the Land of Canaan was the final straw for me! I got partially through that dungeon before just taking the disc out of the ps3 and immediately taking it to GameStop for trade in credit! Also, I don't hate the water trial from Tales of Zestiria. I quickly realized you can recast the water bubble before it's even worn off. It starts to turn blue, just cast the spell again and it's immediately refreshed. Was it tedious recasting it every few steps? Yes. Was it as tedious as getting teleported back? Hell no!
It doesn't hep it only had like three original dungeons. All the others were rehashed from the previous game.