ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
How Hardcore Became Emo: from Black Flag to Jimmy Eat World
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- Likes & Comments are appreciated! Thank you! :D
Support my channel at Patreon:
/ stellas_encounter
or buy me a coffee:
ko-fi.com/stel...
Join my Discord Community:
/ discord
Instagram: / stellasencounter
Twitter: / stellali123
TikTok: / stellasencounter
0:00 Intro
00:52 Black Flag and SST Records
3:33 Washington DC Hardcore
05:22 Rites of Spring and the Birth of Emo
10:21 Second Wave Emo: Jawbreaker, Sunny Day Real Estate, and Midwest-emo
15:36 So ... What is Emo?
The evolution of hardcore and emo: From 80s Black Flag, Washington DC Hardcore, to Rites of spring and emotional hardcore, second-wave emo, and midwest-emo, to 21st-century emo.
References:
Nothing Feels Good: Punk Rock, Teenagers, and EMO by Andy Greenwald
From the Basement: A History of Emo Music and How It Changed Society by Taylor Markarian
/ map_of_emo
www.rollingsto...
Sources:
Saetia live: • Saetia "Notres Langues...
Acts related: Black Flag, Jimmy Eat World, Ian MacKaye, Greg Ginn, Henry Rollins, Descendents, Bad Religion, Dead Kennedys, Wasted Youth, Emotional hardcore, Agent Orange, The Adolescents, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, Government Issue, The Faith, Beefeater, Embrace, Rites of Spring, Nation of Ulysses, Jawbox, Shudder to Think, Fugazi, Rites of Spring, Dag Nasty, Fire Party, Revolution Summer, Guy Picciotto, Jawbreaker, Sunny Day Real Estate, Midwest emo, Blake Schwarzenbach, At the Drive-In, Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance, Panic! At the Disco, The Replacements, Taking Back Sunday, Jeremy Enigk, Seam, Cap n Jazz, Braid, The Promise Ring, the get up kids, Joan of Arc, American Football, Chinese Football, Canadian Softball, Jimmy Eat World, Texas is the Reason, Mineral, screamo, I hate Myself, Pg. 99, Saetia, The Smiths, The Cure, Modest Mouse, Thursday, Drive Like Jehu, Indian Summer, Brand New, Dashboard Confessional, The Appleseed Cast, The World is a Beautiful Place and I am No Longer Afraid to Die, Tiny Moving Parts, Envy, Hüsker Dü
#hardcore #hardcorepunk #midwestemo #emocore #punk #punkmusic #mathrock #emomusic #dashboardconfessional #mychemicalromance #jimmyeatworld #fugazi #blackflag
Thanks for watching! :D
Name your fav Emo bands here! 😁😁😁
It’s so great to finally, finally see real actual punk and hardcore music start to get legitimate documentation and analysis outside of its own scene
Hardcore? And emo? You're speaking to my musical heart. Can't wait to dive in and see the history unfold!
Favorite decade is the 90s and favorite wave is definitely second.
so i was a straight edge kid (still am) but when i discovered Rites of Spring quickly followed by Jawbreaker in 1989, that just sent me down the rabbit hole. so i really like the late 80's, but also the mid-90's I still listen to Texas is the Reason frequently, Lifetime, Samiam, Knapsack, Solea, Mineral, Sunny Day.... but the early 2000's with Finch, Silverstein, Hawthorn Heights, Juliana Theory, Further Seems Forever, Thursday, Taking Back Sunday.... such great records came out then. I actually credit a lot of that stuff for how i discovered postrock and got into that in the late 90's and followed that by ambient and drone and modern classical... it's all just so interconnected! But yeah, fantastic video!
Hi Stella ! Love Black Flag 🏁 & Minor Threat / Fugazi .. but not so much what they influenced. Very interesting look by you at how the music evolved from one genre to another. Your videos are always awesome ! Thanks 😊
Thank you for your awesome comments too!!
I dunno man. Minor Threat, and Fugazi both inspired some amazing bands. Quicksand, and Drive Like Jehu by Fugazi, and Youth Crew to Minor Threat...
@@johnnyscifi Yeah and they where punk hard core Don't sell out and do not Forget your Roots Unity And We stand united that's the hard core i played with Check out Bomb Threat from Hagerstown always playing they where funcore. the where awesome and 200 North.
Once again, a fascinating and astute anthropological study of the throughlines of a particular strain of rock music. I love your work. Thank you!
Great take on EMO. To me Jeremy Enigk and Ian McKaye really are the poster children for EMO. I just saw Sunny Day Real Estate in concert. You have to see them live to really get a feel of their intensity and energy. It's just hard to describe. I saw many Fugazi shows in the 90's. Fugazi were always intent on setting the price for their shows at 5 bucks. Very intense. I remember one show, one guy was slam dancing really hard and being ruckus. Ian stopped mid-song and told the guy to leave or they wouldn't play any more. The crowd booed the guy until he left and they continued playing. Another cool show I saw was at the Washington Monument.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yeah, Fugazi must have been brilliant live and they were like the puritans of rock. And they will never reunite! :( Would love to have seen them back in the day.
@@StellasEncounter It was cool to see Fugazi several times. They were a very interesting band. They were always staunchly anti-commercialism, and they were very uncompromising. Ian had a very powerful presence. The show I saw in DC was very interesting. They had setup a protest for DC sanitation workers. It was cool to see a grass root political movement right in the nation's capitol. I was always impressed with Fugazi's drummer. I saw him play with Bob Mould once.
i always wonder, considering inflation, that if Fugazi had been a 2000s band, would they only charge $10?
@@lavenderllamamusic Probably so. They would charge enough to make ends meet, but not much more.
@@lavenderllamamusic hahaha!! good question!
Great video, Fugazi is one of my all time favorites
My favourite band ever.
Awesome to see Black Flag and the LA/DC punk scene getting some love, great video Stella!
If you don’t know about them already, there is a great female-fronted band from the late 90s called Everyone Asked About You that combines elements of twee pop and Midwest emo!
Grew up on Black Flag (I'm that old), and the first few bars of "My War" literally gives me nostalgia chills. We really didn't think anyone would remember any of this, or punk at all. To hear young people referring to it as seminal is such a mindf*ck! Your grandpa used to mosh. 😂
Great video and a very interesting topic! Never actually thought about the genres relationship towards one another...
Keep it up!!
There are actually some pretty decent female emo bands! Covet, awakebutstillinbed, Everyone Asked About You and Rainer Maria are some of the best!
So cool of you to bring up Seam!! What an awesome band. Great video!
love seam so much! And thank you :)
subscribed.
how about death cab for cutie? probably the longest running emo band still making music.
Great video! I think you nailed it!
Wow thank you! I love your channel! :)
Yes, do a Midwest Emo video, please! I'm from Michigan and was in high school in the early 2000's and midwest emo was really special for so many of us in that area, at that age. I have so many fond memories of basement shows and getting drunk at 3am next to lighthouses.
sounds great!! must've been a special time and place with midwest-emo :)
There are actually plenty of femme-inclusive emo bands out there,but they are very overlooked. Some examples: Ribbon Fix (probably my favourite emo band),Lost North Star, Everyone Asked About You,Since August (the band name is emo af xd), Eldritch Anisette,Jejune etc...
Thank you for taking the time to comment, and your suggestions. They're well recieved.
Have a great weekend!
Like this video as I'm always trying to explain to people about the hardcore roots of emo.
anyone remember that Emo Game flashgame website? with AK3 and Saves the Day. it was hilarious. And girl emo bands. usually didn't work, cuz emo was about a girl breaking your heart. we had Paramore. hey monday. tsunami bomb. was all after that No Doubt phase of the late 90s ska. as ska went away, and 9/11 happened. emo was the leftover wreck of those lives changed 5 years later. and seeing hawthorne heights at every show i went to.
I have to confess to not being super into the later 'waves' of music broadly called emo as I was growing up. I feel like the further back in time one travels to the prior antecedents the more interesting the music is. I suppose At the Drive In's 'Relationship of Command' and ...And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead's 'Source Tags & Codes' were about as close as I got as a youth to being into music bordering on emo. I think a lot of the 90's bands like Sunny Day Real Estate and American Football put out some very interesting work though. I never had though the the Smiths or the Cure in this light before but you do have a point and I've certainly vented emotions many a time while listening to their amazing songs.
Such a fascinating deconstruction of music history as always Stella. :)
Another cool video created by Super-Stellar Stella - I learn a lot with these videos, and I confess to having not known about the DC hardcore scene, although I know the music of a few bands who played there on tour, I guess.
Enjoy the knockout rounds of the World Cup - many of the matches have been exciting. May the best teams win :)
I'm 30, no teenage angst for me, can I still like emo? :(
jokes aside, great video as always. my favorite bands have to be rites of spring and sunny day real estate, I'm a basic gal haha. you probably know them already, but I recommend a band called penfold!
p.s. pikachu and peppa almost stole the show ^^
hahahah, who you think won? Pikachu or peppa?🤣And I don't know penfold! Thanks for recommendation. Thanks for watching too! :)
Saw Black Flag and Dead Kennedys when I was a wee lad, same year I saw U2, Talking Heads, and Iron Maiden (!) nice comparing the Smiths, Beach Boys, and Rites of Spring. Used to listen to Fugazi and Sunny Day Real Estate a lot. Jeremy Enigk’s solo music is great too. There were tons of female punk-ish bands from around here, I got to be friends and play with some of them. I also play music occasionally with a fellow from the D.C. hardcore scene, we always end up playing doom metal! Thanks again Stella
hahaha wee lad, lolls!
Ah! You’ve become one of my favorite channels. So glad you started! Much love from Los Angeles!
✌🏼💙
Aww thank you! Glad you've enjoyed my channel! :D
Britain doesn’t have any noteworthy Emo (Funeral For A Friend, The Blackout & Deaf Havana are the only ones I remember), Grunge nor Nu metal bands, but they have contributed to the recent late 00s metalcore scene like Architects, Sikth, Bring Me The Horizon, Asking Alexandria, While She Sleeps & Bury Tomorrow. The late 80s, 90s and early 00s saw the UK produce Grebo rock (which died in the early 90s), Britpop (Oasis etc) and Indie revival (Franz Ferdinand, Kaiser Chiefs, The Kooks etc). Emo, Grunge & Nu Metal are/were quintessentially American in their sound, outlook and texture.
The footage of Bad Brains live at CBGB in the Intro you have labeled as Minor Threat.
Ouch sorry! Thanks for the heads up, that's certainly a personal mistake and I should've paid more attention...!!
love your channel Stella!!
Why haven't you inluded bands from labels like Ebullition, Vermiform and Gravity?
This was a really great short history of how hardcore blended to emotional hardcore and ultimately blended to a new genre of emo. One band that I find very interesting in the bending is Saves the Day. If you listen to their first full album 'Can't Slow Down' (and older recordings) its very much fast paced and plays on some of the emotional hardcore music like you noted with Rites of Spring, but by their 2nd album they started converting over much more to the more poppy emo music that became a big part of the mainstream music culture in America in the early 2000's. Great Video. i enjoyed it.
Good question... as far as female bands you mentioned Fire Party ( amy pickerings band) these days paramore and fly leaf are called emo 🤷🏾 but only have female members
This ones called Stella is an teacher and she's always diverting!
Hahaha nice line thank you!!
@@StellasEncounter I forgot to add "this ones called first" originally, unless your name is in reverence beer.
Jim Adkins (Jimmy Eat World) cited Fugazi as a huge influence.
Great job. You had some very good observations and the video was well produced.
Bruh like the shit you do on punk is fucking awesome please continue making this type of content thumbs up emoji
Rites of Spring
Yeah - new tunes related to one of my fav band - Jimmy!
Great video. While I’ve never been overly fussed about what’s been understood as emo for the past twenty years or so, I grew up on the likes of Terror and Comeback Kid from the hardcore scene. Good to see somebody talking about emo’s roots in hardcore for those that may not be aware.
I would show this video to anyone looking for a well-researched and thorough explainer on emo’s origins. Looking forward to watching more of your videos!
haha thank you! Hope you enjoy!! :)
Always lovely to watch and listen Stella and her good and detailed narrative. ❤❤❤
I really look forward to watching these. You certainly 'Rise Above'. More please.
thank you!
hardcore never became emo.
kinda a misleading video title. alhough i agree that HC influanced emo. but it never changed to
emo. punk has is way more related to emo. especialy with lyrics. both punk and emo is mostly complaining about problems, while hardore is about finding solutions towards those problems
also to say that hardcore came from punk is only half true. Oi music had also a great influance on hardcore
Great genre to cover Stella!! I was happy to see you covered this large genre of music. I liked that you mentioned some of the sub genres like Screamo and Midwest emo. You could do a whole video dedicated to Midwest emo. Very happy you mentioned Seam - they kind of fit in slowcore, but I think were more related to emo than any other genre.
To contribute to your question about female fronted emo, I would add the band Rainer Maria. Their album “Look Now, Look Again” is one of the greatest Midwest and overall emo records imo. They were one of the only female fronted Midwest emo bands that I knew of besides Mercy Rule - who are also amazing and overlooked. Mates of State and The Anniversary who were male/female fronted should be included here. Tsunami are a DC area band - and they had more of a indie rock sound - but definitely some emo sounding songs. I would also recommend Denali. They were female fronted and had members of Engine Down - who are also emo/post hardcore. For more later emo I like Lemuria, Football etc. if you get a chance to check those out, let me know what you think! Cheers!
Thanks for your comment! I'm enjoying Rainer Maria! I guess I was thinking 'all-female" when it came to the argument, when it's female fronted the options are certainly larger. When the main songwriter/lyricist of the band is a male, it's still the common male emo narrative about sadness, vulnerability, and girls. I'll check out the other emo bands you mentioned, thanks again!! :)
Another aspect that you could have looked at is how the straight edge scenes influenced emo. Bands like Youth of Today lead to bands like Turning Point which was a major influence on a morden introspective hardcore seen in Title Fight and now currently One Step Closer.
As for female voclas in emo check out Tigers Jaw and Adventures.
For future videos it would interting to see you touch on straight edge, screamo/skramz or maybe how emo has progressed into a morden day trap/hip hop sound
Thanks for suggestions and your insight!! :D
there are se great female led emo bands but i think as a whole, theyve arrived later than their male counterparts.
check out tawny peaks, i hate sex, the hush sound (more pop-emo), snail mail, foxtails, petal (first ep in particular), football etc., sup muscles?, nervous dater, black box recorder... there's a lot of great female led emo/emo adjacent music these days
Rainer Maria
first female lead i thought of. i would also add low in there.
I would also add the Florida band Pohgoh for female-lead emo although their material since reuniting is more indie than emo. I’m glad lead vocalist Susie Ulrey is still active despite having MS.
awesome video :)
The point of "isn't anger an emotion" is a really really good one and it shows you connect with the thread that unites all these bands. Also props for shouting out Fire Party! With Autoclave one of my fave bands from that scene.
Also to answer your question about female emo bands: the way the emo scene (and particularly the pop punk scene) was created had a huge misogynistic problem similar to classic rock n roll. A lot of the bands wanted to be "idols" (similar to boy bands) and posed the toxic heterosexuality image of the sentimental boy who just needs a manic pixie dream girl who is a "muse". It's obviously not intrinsic to the music or the style but there is a lot of unchecked gender dynamics in the emo scene, and, as you super well pointed out, when a woman wants to express emotions, it's easier to put yourself in the singer-songwriter position than in a traditionally masculine scene like hardcore-related music (except in the case of the explicitly feminist bands of the riot grrrl movement).
BUT there are some bands that do have female singers, specially alongside the screamo scene (because a lot of it was more gender inclusive than the pop punk related branch). Some of them are 1905, Hiretsukan, Analena, Mahria, if you wanna look them up!
Yes. My impression in the eighties was that the diverse sounds and audiences of punk and post-punk / new wave were gradually replaced by more cliched and male-dominated hard-core bands and audiences. To a slight degree, in the Midwest at least, an ugly side of the scene were the skinhead or nazi punk types. The toxic masculinity and skulls aesthetic just made everything boring. Most women were not into all that. For those who loved angrier emotional sounds in their music the riot grrl thing was available. And here in the Midwest the same audiences that supported emo bands like Braid or American Football would enjoy Le Tigre or any loud girl band like the Breeders.
Given the bands you listed at the end, you should definitely check out The Assistant if you're not familiar. Fantastic female-led skramz.
th-cam.com/video/HBG_bzUfSn0/w-d-xo.html An Assistant album (they can be a little hard to find)
i’m emo
and you're the first!! grats :D
I grew up in Chicago in the 90's at the Fireside Bowl, the 💔 heart of Midwest Emo..
A) Midwest emo was a rejection of angry hardcore, of being an angry punk, of always fighting, of not wanting to fuck but to hold hands and talk and cuddle and get to know each other and wanting to be a nice thoughtful guy and have nerdy friends and be okay with childish things when everything was fun and okay... (then as it got popular, the 3rd wave became all the rich, cool, good looking kids took it over and it was about style and makeup and became a completely different thing).
B) All the girls i knew who liked emo were in punk bands because at the time all that soft feminist acoustic emo was popular so they wanted to show they were tough like the guys as a backlash cuz it wasnt interesting to hear another girl whine about her feelings
Haha, funny & interesting informative comment about the evolution of emo! Thank you! :)
a great dive into the history of emo, thanks for a video!
hey stellas encounter please make a video on MIDWEST emo and SKRAMZ please
yes please do that 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
90's Female punk emo bands to check out. Bratmoble, L7, Bakini kill, Red aunts, hole, sonic youth, varuca salt, and the breeders. Enjoy.
An album that I think that should be recognized more also for hardcore punk is the damned’s machine gun etiquette it’s pretty much proto-hardcore punk my favorite song being the album titled song
But great video tho even tho I’m not a fan of emo I do like some bands like Bad brains and rites of springs
I meant to say I’m not a fan of emo nor hardcore Music
Jawbreaker a classic
Rites of spring is the cats pajamas
Ni hao Stella - again, lots of bands that are new to me so thanks for the introduction. Would you say Emo is an American genre ? In the UK we had Indie rock and Indie pop, then rave, shoegaze and Britpop. If you could recommend one Emo band, what would it be ? Looking forward to the next video - tam biet from Viet Nam.
Some femme-inclusive emo bands that I like are awakebutstillinbed, I Hate Sex, Jejune, Pohgoh, Rainer Maria, Ribbon Fix, and foxtails
I think "emo" was born out of "post-hardcore", but that genre is just as ubiquitous as "emo"...maybe "post-hardcore", and "emo" are interchangeable? I dunno...
Thank you for taking time to address the lack of female emo bands. Diversity is a huge cultural issue that runs all the way through so much of alternative music. I wish I would've been introduced to Fire Party when I was getting into bands like Minor Threat and Black Flag 15+ years ago. There are so many genres missing out on non-male perspectives and creative development, emo more so than hardcore these days. I hung on to the band Now, Now since their beginning and have yet to find many bands of a similar sound and caliber. Hopefully the genre will catch up like hardcore and extreme metal is starting to!
Hi Stella, yet another great video and a nice touch linking the emo scene to US hardcore while cleverly sliding in The Smiths' 'The Queen is Dead'. Very cheeky. That Smiths album successfully combines dark humour with almost theatrical emotional intensity. Emo is such a wide open genre that many artists fit the mould. I mean could Fleetwood Mac's 'Rumours' be considered emo? Ian MacKaye embodies hardcore music and its evolution. The progression from the early Minor Threat stuff to the later Fugazi albums represents an increasingly complex and satisfying sculpting of sound that never loses a burning intensity. For me the ultimate emo album has to be Husker Du's double album masterpiece 'Zen Arcade'. That record is suffused in explosive self expression both stirring and healing. Kind of like the ultimate catharsis. If you get the chance check out a recently written history of SST Records 'Corporate Rock Sucks: the rise and fall of SST records'. It gives really good insights in the US hardcore music from late 1970s onwards and also 2006 doco 'American Hardcore: the history of American punk rock 1980 - 1986'. It features very cool live footage of some of the greatest hardcore bands. Nice one Stella.
Hi Daniel, Thanks for your comment and books recs. Yes, Rumors is kinda emo (I've actually cried listening to that album lol). To be honest, hardcore isn't really something I know super well. I have to say, thanks for recommending Lester Bangs' book! I was reading it a few days ago. Damn, his language and storytelling is fascinating! Some of his insights still make sense to this day. I'm trying to think of a band whose artistic style is similar to Lester's....Do you have any idea? Perhaps Husker Du is a good one? One of his essays describing intercourse has really left an impression on me. Unfortunately my english isn't great enough to understand his writing to full extent.
Hi Stella, pleased to hear you are reading Lester Bangs. Your spoken English is excellent, but I can understand some difficulty with Bangs' writing style. This is because he often wrote in a stream of consciousness way, having been influenced by the Beat writers and poets and the semi-autobiographical writing of Henry Miller, Charles Bukowski and Hunter S Thompson. He would consume some drug or other, sit at the typewriter and the words would come pouring out. The trick is to try and empty your mind and just follow the rhythm and flow of the words. Bangs would often insert himself and his own experiences into whatever band or album he was writing about. He does this very well on a great 1977 piece he wrote on The Clash, which is in the 'Psychotic Reactions' collection. That collection also contains a touching piece on proto-punk icon Peter Laughner who died way too young. Bangs was writing about punk before punk actually happened by focusing on all those bands and artists who paved the way such as The Stooges, MC5 and Lou Reed. He lays out the punk aesthetic in one of his greatest pieces titled 'Of Pop and Pies and Fun' from 1970 that explores the raw brilliance of The Stooges' greatest album 'Funhouse'. When writing about sex (the word 'intercourse' is a tad formal - ha ha) Bangs was writing mostly about desire as he was often quite blunt about his own inadequacies, which makes for honest and entertaining reading. It is difficult to pick a band or artist whose music resembles the writing style. Lyrically, I'm thinking of people like Elliot Smith and Morrissey in the honest and affecting impact of their words, but also Bob Dylan when he is in full stream of consciousness mode. But I actually think Bangs' writing is difficult to compare with anyone else. Rolling Stone magazine said that Bangs was a 'great American writer who just happened to write about rock and roll'. On another note, your video on lo-fi music is one of the best you have done. It was very well researched and interesting to watch. I will comment more at the video. Please keep them coming as I, along with many others, enjoy them and your musical tastes are very similar to mine. Also please keep in touch (preferably gmail!). I hope 2023 is a good year for you!
Yes, stream of consciousness is correct! I've enjoyed some beat writers when I was a teenager, and I do remember struggling with reading Hunter S Thompson several years ago. Lester's crude, uninhibited language could be really amusing at times! I feel quite inspired by how he connects personal life, music, creative writing, political statement and other elements altogether. I always find those things are closely connected. It's hard to not come off as self-indulgent/self-important/cringey if I approached my videos like that. Elliott Smith and Morrissey both have a pristine, virginal quality to their image, which is very not Lester Bangs. But I think Elliott Smith also has a chaotic dark side that he doesn't (or didn't?) really try to hide. Perhaps it's era related, would a drug-infused volatile writer be considered as 'cool' nowadays and achieving reasonable success?
There are actually lots of hardcore bands with women, like GLOSS, War on Women, and Filth is Eternal. not so much with emo, however...
From my jaded perspective, Emo is what happens when the Hot Topic crowd gets sold rebellion.
Hardcore was becoming formulaic (which Emo didn't seem to notice) and honestly "alternative" was becoming quite good with Jane's Addiction, Breeders, etc. It seemed hardcore had run its course, and new space was opening up for everything from grunge, Riot Grrrl (where all the decent female musicians ended up), industrial metal, etc.
I'm really confused as to how Emo became the heirs of Hardcore, except in a revisionist history ignoring all the other styles that came out of the ashes of the 80s (a lot of the underground metal styles coming out then seemed closer in spirit).
It was mall punk and not that interesting.
Don’t you think emo is associated with hard-core, because comes out of DC and Rites of Spring? Black Flag, Hüsker Dü, Replacements, Fugazi, these bands all play hardcore in their early work (or all their work) and combine intense emotion and authenticity with loud, fast music. Emo of the 90s and early 2000s isn’t much different is it? The music becomes more melodic and the guitar music gets cleaner, but the raw emotions and romantic idealism are still there. Isn’t authentic emotion and insight into the human condition that transcends conventional approaches the spark that makes punk, hardcore, emo, grunge, blues, and concert music good? Good emo music was inspired by good hardcore, and so the genres are connected. And you’re right that alternative metal is likewise a child of hardcore.
@@EricHadleyIves "Hardcore" in the early days wasn't really defined by loud, fast music per se (have you heard later Black Flag?), but not making concessions to be more accessible (even to punks) and as a differentiation from all the mutations that were happening around the same time. When it became loud, fast nearly exclusively was the beginning of the end (and the birth of Emo).
Nor were Rites of Spring the "first" Emo band, as Grey Matter was also from the same scene and was operating in the same space, but thankfully have been ignored by the revisionist. Nor was the DC scene exclusive to "hardcore" or loud, fast music, as there were regional scenes with their own take on hardcore, from D.R.I. to Reagan Youth to Cro-Mags to Jerry's Kids, etc.; they just didn't have the reach of Dischord records behind them.
"The music becomes more melodic and the guitar music gets cleaner"
"not making concessions to be more accessible".
See the problem here with making emo the heir apparent to hardcore?
There was "raw emotion and romantic idealism" in everything from post-punk, goth, death rock, etc. from the same time. You might as well call Emo less interesting but faster Goth.
Looking back, people try to see patterns and associations to make sense of the time. But that does a huge disservice to just how glorious a chaotic mess it was.
Yes a Midwest emo video please!
I am glad you made the Smiths comparison, because I believe the jangly side of post-punk, including bands like the Feelies and early R.E.M. probably had a big influence on the Midwest Emo movement.
If you check out the last album from the band The Hated, “every song” (1989) You can hear that jangly hardcore style that would be so commonplace in the 90s.
Yes, The Feelies and R.E.M. are very influential in alternative in general. I'm really enjoying The Hated, thanks so much for mentioning them :)
90s. 2nd wave. My specific favourites come from those that could be categorised as basement emo but I tend to like all of it
Re: Not many/any female Emo bands….boys get their heart broken, they cry (“Emo”)…girls get their hear broken they scream(“Punk”)?? There are LOTS of amazing female punk rock bands from that period, but my favorite, is, and will always be, The Gits. But maybe the bands that might have stopped at “Emo” went all the way over to “Goth”…hello Siouxie!!
That's a great question you brought up about female emo bands because there are so many fans. There just seems to be less female musicians in general so I wonder if it's as simple as that or if it's something deeper.
Well done! Kudos
This is great
我真的欣赏你的努力为了你使这些视频。我喜欢sunny days real estate 尽管我很少听emo音乐，但是我绝对会试试听Seam 。加油！🖤💙（我的中文很糟糕😅)
你的中文不糟糕，至少我能看得懂😊！谢谢你的评论！Seam超级棒的！
@@StellasEncounter 666 💙🖤😊
I love punk, emo, hardcore, alt rock, grunge etc. I listen to Jawbreaker a lot so second wave is probably my favorite. Not emo or hardcore but a subgenre of punk exists called Riot Grrrl for female semi aggressive music. Ex. Bikini Kill, Bratmobile and maybe not exactly Riot Grrrl but I really love the band L7, kinda punk kinda grunge.
I dont consider the new era of emo like being emo. I would call them "pop punk". U cant call still life, falling forward or rites of spring the same genre as simple plan etc. I dont even know if i would say mineral is emo. But the used certainly is not.
Zen Arcade from Husker Du was released in 82 and was a turnpoint between hard-core an emo, I think.
Could’ve put “from Minor Threat to Embrace” you really missed a perfect title
great bands. I love Ian
Great suggestion and I think Minor Threat might be a better choice than "Black Flag" indeed. But I think Rites of Spring are more reperesentative of the beginning the emo.
I was around the DC scene for a lot of this... Never was a big fan of the emo stuff but Nation of Ulysses and Make-up stuff was super. Girl bands... You had Tuscadero around here. Kinda emo. Bikini Kill came out of the scene... Slant-6 went more garage. Cheers
There was also hard core rock as well as HC punk❤
Interesting question regarding female emo bands. I think it's some combination of the late 90s and early 2000s not exactly being the most fertile ground for a female creative to gain recognition without being extorted by the industry and sexualised, and importantly - while it's very different in 2022 - it used to be that young men weren't allowed to cry, or show vulnerability, or fragility. In a more chauvinistic and backwards society, women were allowed and "expected" to be overtly emotional. For lots of men, hardcore music was the singular, only avenue they had that didn't resort in an untimely death by suicide around their mid-40s once the american "dream" faded into obscurity.
thank you for your insightful comment!
where does dead kennedys fit in
Cap’n Jazz.
RITES OF SPRING, MOSS ICON...
🫶 obsessed with this vid. Amazing work
Aw thank you! I love your channel and I've watched your video on 'emo' too! :)
@@StellasEncounter omg that makes me so happy to hear! :’)
Hello, as a (third wave?) Emo fan it was nice to look up the history behind my favourite genre. I definitely pretended I wasn't, but I was. I did at least get on the bandwagon early. Fall out boy, MCR, Alkaline Trio. Rise Against is actual punk at least some of the time.
Paramore is probably still the best Female, fronted at least, Emo Band. I know the Fourth Wave Emo has a lot more Women involved at least in my country, bands such as Camp Cope, Yours Truly etc.
I recently went to an Algernon Cadwallader concert, who reunited after breaking up in like 08 or 09... it was very good!
Edit: I like how you pronounce "hardcore", it sounds like "Howgarts" :)
hahahahaha! howgarts!
"Guess which team will win World Cup?" LOL I'm going to have to share that one
You posed a really good question about female leads/band members in emo! It has me curious to find out if I know any bands, but my initial reaction is I think you're right, it is curious as to why it seems rather rare. It gets more curious when we see it is not too uncommon to see female leads/band members in other adjacent genres of musical expression, whether its aesthetically or in ethos. I think of bands like Stand Atlantic when it comes to the pop punk (at least the Neck Deep flavor of pop punk), and then there's always been a decent number of females in the more aggressive or heavy side of things too (I think of a band like Gouge Away), like hardcore, post hardcore, and metal. So it is really interesting to take note of the lack of a female presence in emo, at least the first and second wave sounds of emo (which I presume is what you were specifying). Probably the closest I can think of is The World Is A Beautiful Place & I Am No Longer Afraid To Die, they have several female members (not to mention they're amazing! their album last year was in my top three for the year).
I most definitely relate to you about the blurry lines between slowcore and emo sometimes with certain bands, haha! I will have to check this Seam band out! Whether they are slowcore or emo, I'm a big fan of both sounds, so I'm excited to see what I find in either case!
Also, oh my gosh, Pet Sounds is one of my all time favorite albums and I never once heard the take that it might be an emo album (nor has the thought crossed my mind). But you picked the perfect song to possibly demonstrate that. Oh my gosh, I Just Wasn't Made For These Times is so close to being an American Football song hahaha, and now I kinda wanna hear it recontextualized as one 😳lol
Thank you for the fantastic video and dive! Loved it! Wishing you a great end of the year 😄
Haha, Ikr! Pet sounds is one of my all time favs too. And reading that it might be an 'emo' album has almost changed how I view Pet Sounds content-wise! I Just Wasn't Made For These Times and "the regrets are killing me" of American Football could do a mix up as a song! Thanks for your comment, glad you loved the video and wish you a great december too!! :)
Ps also the uk post punk charted joy d and pill our pub rock had as well as post pub rock like dire straights and others called new wave for the usa n rest of the world usa no wave 🎉also got no air play not even john peel pps all girl usa rock band got reborn in uk as punk the
Runaways ❤
I love both genres!!!
PS: first and second wave emo for me, but I also like newer stuff...:)
British punk was a reaction to American punk! The Ramones and the New York Dolls!
"Real Emo" only consists of the dc Emotional Hardcore scene and the late 90's Screamo scene. What is known by "Midwest Emo" is nothing but Alternative Rock with questionable real emo influence. When people try to argue that bands like My Chemical Romance are not real emo, while saying that Sunny Day Real Estate is, I can't help not to cringe because they are just as fake emo as My Chemical Romance (plus the pretentiousness). Real emo sounds ENERGETIC, POWERFUL and somewhat HATEFUL. Fake emo is weak, self pity and a failed attempt to direct energy and emotion into music. Some examples of REAL EMO are Pg 99, Rites of Spring, Cap n Jazz (the only real emo band from the midwest scene) and Loma Prieta. Some examples of FAKE EMO are American Football, My Chemical Romance and Mineral EMO BELONGS TO HARDCORE NOT TO INDIE, POP PUNK, ALT ROCK OR ANY OTHER MAINSTREAM GENRE
If you want to see and hear female emo, Rainer Maria is amazing th-cam.com/video/Jm4Y-ltM154/w-d-xo.html there are also more recent examples like Swearin' and Hop Along. Otherwise what might have been female emo tended to be seen as indie like Rilo Kiley, or Riot Grrl for harder bands. There is also some female involvement in Screamo like I hate sex.And or course there is always Paramore
thank you for your recommendations and the reference to riot grrl! I like Rainer Maria!
check out Slant 6....female emo rock
I am like you. I used Joy Division, The Smiths and the Cure to satisfy my emotional needs when I employed musical support.
hahaha :)
@14:01 I think the main reason there's a "lack" of female bands is that for a long time, nobody really payed attention to non-male bands. Also a lot of time non-male people in the scene were shoved aside or they felt unsafe since it's very male-focused and a bunch of sweaty guys in a room is... a recipe for disaster. There are some really good bands fronted by non-men (women, non-binary people, etc) nowadays. Some that I listen to are:
-Football, Etc.
-Dana Skully and the Tiger Shark
-Sup, Muscles?
-Sincere Engineer
-Pool Kids
hahahah @sweaty guys in a room is recipe for disaster! Thanks for you list of recommendations, I'll check them out!
"MINOR THREAT formed a religion called straightedge." I like you're style! As a 51 year old hardcore "kid," I understand your perspective.
Definitely do another video on midwest emo. It's certainly the genre I gravitated to. American Football is one of my favourite bands.
Thank god Hardcore did not really BECOME Emo, but Emo is just one of many offshoots of hardcore. One that I personally never cared about, unlike the hardcore/metal crossover styles that I was totally into in the mid to late '80s (crossover thrash, grindcore, etc.). And of course grunge had its roots in hardcore too.
Niceeee
"But happy times together we've been spending \ I wish that every kiss was never-ending \ Oh, wouldn't it be nice?" -- OG Emo? Interesting question. Will the real Emo please stand up??? Back in the days I remember seeing Black Flag graffiti in alley ways, concrete boardwalks and other such public places. Those four staggered bars were easy to stencil. Black paint. Apply in seconds. Didn't need to be very large -- 3x5, 5x7 -- inches. They also served as advertisements for SST Records and its small but growing roster of artists including Minutemen & Hüsker Dü along with Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr, Bad Brains, and Descendents. Milo went to graduate school at my undergraduate college. That's an inside joke of sorts. But I really was friendly acquaintances with Milo of the Descendents for a couple of years back in the eighties. "Double Nickels on the Dime" was the Minutemen album I bought in 1984 that left my friends in high school thinking I was a little weird. But I dug the band's flip attitude in the video for "This Ain't No Picnic" that ran on MTV a few brief times and didn't care what they thought about it. Our band is scientist rock! Most of the songs on that album are less than two minutes long and consist of guitar, bass, drums, and human voices -- at a time when synthesizers and guitar effects and twelve minute dance tracks began to dominate the music scene. Their sound was radically different from everything else including hardcore. Mr. Narrator, This is Bob Dylan to me! One of the songs from that album, "Corona", was used nearly twenty years later as the opening theme to the television pranksters show Jackass. Their singer, D. Boon, died in a tragic car accident. The surviving members formed a new band with a Minuteman superfan and called themselves Firehose. I also saw them play a couple of times back then. They were great live. They played "A Quick One, While He's Away" by The Who for an encore the first time I saw them. Also worth mentioning, before Emilio Estevez starred in the 1985 American teen coming-of-age comedy-drama film The Breakfast Club, he starred in the 1984 American science fiction black comedy film Repo Man, which was lauded as much for its soundtrack as its laughs and general strangeness. Iggy Pop, Black Flag, Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks, The Plugz, Burning Sensations, Fear, Juicy Bananas helped a quirky movie spread their sound beyond Los Angeles. At any rate, I'm not sure what "Emo" means either. French Romanticism? Frederic Chopin, Franz Liszt, Giuseppe Verdi and Richard Wagner? Maybe. Charles Baudelaire, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Thomas De Quincey, John Keats, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Edgar Allan Poe, Washington Irving, Nathaniel Hawthorne -- maybe more British and American Romanticism? I dunno. There's probably something that can be said about the other punk sounds from Los Angeles -- X, The Blasters, Fishbone, Green On Red -- and the sounds from Northern California at that time as well -- The Dead Kennedys, The Beat aka Paul Collins' Beat, Romeo Void, The Motels, The Tubes -- verging towards pop -- and later Camper Van Beethoven. There were very few women in "punk" bands back then. Wendy O. Williams from the Plasmatics might have scared them off for a time. Exene Cervenka fronted X with John Doe. Your phone's off the hook but you're not! The top hard core band in my town was Capitol Punishment. It was powered by a female drummer for several years. I jammed with her a few times in the nineties. But that's another story.
Emo/ Emo adjacent bands w ladies
The anniversary
Calamine
Empire empire I was a lonely estate
Crying
Cayetana
Lemuria
Daddy issues
Hardcore w ladies
Scowl
Punch
Jawstruck
No right
TraumaXqueen