Was There Ever a BRITISH Romance Language?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ม.ค. 2021
- British, Romance Languages. The two don't exactly go hand in hand. Today we will be looking at the mystery surrounding this mysterious language.
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By Tataryn - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
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And the lost romance language from north África.
And the language of Ragusa.
@@rogerwilco2 dalmatian?
@@rogerwilco2 and Pannonia
The reason French is spoken in France instead of Frankish is because the Franks were the ruling class. To contrast this the Anglo-Saxons weren't a ruling class, they just displaced and/or assimilated the native Britons.
The rule of thumb is that the ruling class eventually adopts the local tongue. This is what happened with the Lambards, the Visigoths, the Franks, and the Normans. Why this didn't happen in the Roman Empire was probably the way the Romans set up their provinces, but I'm not sure.
Yes, I agree, and the reason the Romans didn't adopt local languages was probably not only due to politics, but also the fact that they also didn't really assimilate into any local cultures and preferred to force their customs on others. Thank you for watching though, I really appreciate your support!
The key to difference is that Rome annexed those foreign lands, whereas those Germanic ruling classes moved from their homelands and made their newly conquered lands their new homeland.
Latinisation would probably not have happened if you imagine a situation where, for example, the Carthaginians defeated the Romans, after which a small band of elite Roman warriors fled to Noricum or Gaul and made themselves the new rulers in their new homeland. In that context, the descendants of those Romans would have probably adopted the Germanic or Gallic languages of their subjects.
If this is true in general creole languages shouldn't exist, so there's quite probably a more nuanced social theory than this
Cultural assimilation is done in two way. Either the conqueror embraced the cultural of the conquered or the conquered embrace the culture of the conquerors. The conquered embrace the culture of the conquerors is the more common one. The Anglo-Saxons also become the new ruling class displacing local Romano-British social elite like the Franks in Gaul. The contrast is that the Germanic speaking Franks embrace the Gallo-Roman culture of former Roman Gaul while in Britain, the local Brythonic speaking peoples and Romano-British embrace Anglo-Saxon culture. In Roman Gaul, Gallo-Roman dialect of Latin is spoken in urban areas while Gaulish Celtic languages are still spoken in rural areas and the situation is the same in Roman Britain. Both the Gallo-Romans and the Romano-British fled their urban homes to seek refuge in rural areas during the invasion by Germanic speaking peoples. Gallo-Roman variant of Latin displaced the Celtic languages of Gaul while Romano-British variant got displaced by Brythonic Celtic and Anglo-Saxon languages.
Según André Maurois a la llegada de los anglos, sajones y otros pueblos germánicos, Inglaterra era un país pobre, triste y poco poblado.
Las poblaciones locales fueron desplazadas hacia las periferias {País de Gales (Cymru)} dejando el espacio para el dominio de los recién llegados que nunca adoptaron las costumbres romanas como sí ocurrió el continente.
Posteriormente en la Heptarquía se consolidó el lenguaje anglosajón, que con la conquista Normanda de Hastings fue relegado al pueblo mientras las élites hablaban francés, mucho más culto.
Fue ahí donde realmente se gesta y nace el inglés como lengua, modificada por las personas del común pero enriquecida enormemente por el francés.
Respecto a los celtas y otros grupos humanos, vivieron en zonas apartadas donde hasta el día de hoy conservan sus lenguas o emigraron, por ejemplo, los Bretones al occidente de Francia.
La presencia romana en la Gran Bretaña no fue tan intensa como en muchas partes del Imperio, aún así nombres como Londres o Mánchester son de origen Latino.
As a student of English I realize that, as a germanic language, English shares with romance languages a good percentage of dictionary.
English is classified as Germanic due to its grammatical structure identical to Germanic language. Romance influence is derived primarily from the Romance Norman French, a form of French spoken in Normandy, France.
English is a germanic language wearing the skin of all the romance languages.
@@MrLantean The fact that most of the words you have used are of latin origin says a lot. Anyone that speaks a latin language and basic English would be able to understand what you said.
In pt-br: Inglês é classificado como língua germânica pela sua estrutura gramática idêntica à lingua germânica. Influência românica deriva primariamente da língua normanda, uma forma de Francês falado na Normandia, França.
Thank the Norman’s
The (Germanic related to Germanic die Dutch de Swedish/Norwegian/Danish de) fact (Romance) that (Germanic related to German das and dass Dutch dat and Swedish/Norwegian/Danish det) most (Germanic related to Swedish mest) of (Germanic related to Swedish av and Danish af) the (Germanic) words (Germanic related to Swedish and Danish ord and German wort) you (Germanic related to Dutch je) used (Romance) are (Germanic related to Swedish är and Danish er) of (Germanic) origin (Romance) says (Germanic related to Swedish säga Danish sige and German sagen) a (Germanic) lot (Germanic)
Anyone (any+one and both are Germanic) that (Germanic) speaks (Germanic related to German sprechen and Dutch spreken) a (Germanic) latin (Romance) language (Romance) and (Germanic related to German und) basic (Romance) English (Germanic) would (Germanic the past tense of will which is related to Swedish vilja Danish vilje and German wollen) be (Germanic related to German bin and Dutch ben from one of the verbs for to be in old English bean , the other was wesan and that's where the past tense was/were comes from) able (Romance) to (Germanic related to German zu and Dutch te) understand (under + stand and both are Germanic) what (Germanic from old English hwæt related to Swedish vad Danish hvad and German was) you (Germanic related to Dutch je) said (Germanic)
So in your own argument about three thirds of the words were Germanic so where did you get this "most words" are of latin root thing from?
I'm subbig to this instantly. I can tell that this channel is run by an individual who has genuinely good content to share and teach. Hope you grow much larger by the end of the year soon!
I'm happy TH-cam recommended me your channel! You have a really nice art style considering how new your channel is. You got a subscriber out of me :)
Thank you so much, I really appreciate the support!
The britonnic speakers that escaped from the anglo-saxons retained a lot of latin vocabulary (Welsh fenestr for window from the latin fenestra). Maybe if the Romans had stayed for longer in Britain, A Romance may have derived with a Welsh substrate??? who knows?
Somebody actually created what he thought a Welsh-substrate Romance language would have been like: search TH-cam and/or Google for “Brythoneg.”
Google “Brythenig” or search it on TH-cam, to see what a Welsh-substrate Romance language would have been like.
That was fascinating. Did you ever do the part-2 video that you alluded to?
There is this guy, polyMATHY, he demoted the theory that there ever was a "vulgar Latin" variation. He is a fluent speaker of Latin too
Valid point
He isn't the only one who has brought it up, and scholar's have generally accepted that there wasn't a Vulgar Latin. The Latin language is the same throughout the centuries, and the Romance languages are directly descendant of it
There was even a Pannonian Romance language spoken in modern day Slavonia and Vojvodina in Croatia and Serbia
Video Suggestion: why do galloromance languages have so few visible Celtic substrate? I get it for Occitan and arpitan but what about French?
English does not come from Latin, but after the Norman conquest its vocabulary and structure was brutally modified. In a BBC report, the University of Oxford states the following: the English language is made up of this way: Vocabulary: 60% Latin, and only 28% Anglo-Saxon; grammar: 48% Anglo-Saxon structure, 39% Latin structure; the rest of the grammar structure comes from Celtic and Greek. For this reason philologists consider English a Hybrid, saying that English is a hybrid is the right thing to do.
But it's still not considered creole?
@@danilolquerojr. No, it's still considered a distinct Germanic language..
Slight correction: Vulgar Latin decended from Classical Latin but it wasn't the tongue of the common people. It was the language that EVERY Roman used, not just peasants
I partly disagree on this (specifically the cause of its extinction by both Celtic and Germanic tribes), but if there ever was a British Romance, it would be a Langue d'Oil that isn't French. The same goes for a somehow revived Moselle Romance.
The closest thing - in vocabulary at least - would be Welsh, no?
Eglise (French) - Eglwys (Welsh) - Church (English);
Fenetre (French) - Ffenestr (Welsh) - Window (English);
Or (French) - Aur (Welsh) - Gold (English);
Livre (French) - Llyfr (Welsh) - Book (English);
Triste (French) - Trist (Welsh) - Sad (English);
Pont (French) - Pont (Welsh) - Bridge (English);
etc.
I think modern welsh is romance Celtic language
Welsh even has a similar word with Romanian ( Dacian)
Coedwig/Codru both for forest.
I saw this things and facts inside and out of TH-cam and its why i sugest to ya more development on theses themes. The own TH-cam recommends your channel to me.
So im here and tell you about linguistical roots inside of english idiom to you explain more details to us all from other countries, english's non native speakers. Hugs.
Welsh is said to contain, besides celtic, many words descended from classical latin.
Da iawn. Good vid, keep it up~
Thanks!
@@TheMiluProject percebi que você fala português esta na descrição do seu canal. Nos comentários que deixei em inglês você pode desenvolver 2 línguas do inglês uma germânica que seria o o anglès ou anglo saxao o velho inglês mesclado com idiomas germânicos e o anglico britonico que seria o inglês mesclado com idiomas latinos. Sucesso no projeto.
@@TheMiluProject você é do Reino Unido né vive na Inglaterra.
Where's part 2 with the reconstructed language?
ABalphabeta has a video on the history of English where he has British Vulgar Latin in it. Although it just appears to be standard vulgar Latin with some similarities to Gallic Romance and I have no idea what his sources are even though he has some in the description. Here's the link to the video:
th-cam.com/video/N1oZf-OxxEY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bdgkzagY-cmziQrx
I really like your voice, I hope that's not too weird haha 😅
Weirdly relaxing :P
Let’s not gloss over the fact that there are still people here in Britain still speaking its indigenous language. Good vid all the same.
A lot of English has Latin in it. A lot
@VisualPlugin the Multilingual Programmer partly true but earlier. We have also borrowed Spanish French and religious church latin, Latin phrases, and Latin law also during the 1500s to the present.
But it is still not Romance.
What you really know about England, its culture, style, language, castles, royalty etc is Norman. The Anglo-Saxons in a single battle lost everything, I repeat, in a single battle they lost everything. Ironically, the word England comes from the ancient Anglo-Saxon meaning "land of the Angles", but the "land of the Angles" remained in the hands of the Normans until today. By the way the (modern) English language does not come from Anglo-Saxon, the modern English language comes from Anglo-Norman which is considered the fifth variant of the Norman language (a Romance language). This explains the colossal influence that Latin has on English, for this reason philologists consider English a hybrid language and not a purely Germanic language.
That's not true. English is still a Germanic language. A monolingual Romance-speaker, for example a Spanish speaker, wouldn't be able to understand an every-day conversation in English, as the most frequently-used words (walk, talk, make, bake, do, f*ck, etc.) are still Germanic, and the phonemes are not that altered from Anglo-Saxon, especially in Britain. But they would be able to at least partially understand an Italian or even a Portuguese speaker because all three of those languages (Spanish, Italian, Portuguese) come from a Latin root, as in they EVOLVED from spoken Latin in the classical period. Meanwhile English, despite having 64% of its vocabulary come from Greco-Latin roots, EVOLVED from spoken dialects of Anglo-Saxon, which a Germanic language, not related to Latin, unless you take in the fact that they're both Indo-European, but that still means there's about 3000 years of divergence.
@@thebestofthebestmedia7545 what you say is not true, keep this in mind: The truth is, and to be honest, English is really a hybrid language, since it is impossible to say that it is a purely Germanic language, considering the strong influence of Latin. The vocabulary in English is 60% Latin and the grammar is 38% Latin (disproving the legend that English grammar is 100% Germanic) (data from BBC London by renowned philological studies from universities such as Cambridge, Stanford and Yale). Considering the above, the influence of Latin is colossal and undeniable. English is a hybrid language and that makes it great.
El inglés ya es en 58% una lengua latina....a pesar de que aún se considera de familia germanica
Vou fingir que eu nem li isso
@@andreluiz6023 porque dices eso...si es cierto
@@gio_toro856 La cosita es que las palabras más básicas, es decir... cosas como frutas, animales (nativos a las islas británicas), verbos simples, etc son germánicas. Por esta razón, las conversaciones simples (en cuanto al vocabulario), de hecho son más difíciles por los que hablan lenguas romance. La mayoría de esos 58% son cosas relacionados con la ciencia, medicina, anatomía, así que no son TAN prevalentes como uno probablemente pensaría 😅
Algunos ejemplos de palabras germánicas:
Apple - manzana
Berry - baya
Grape - uva
Dog - perro
Bird - pájaro
Snake - víbora
Think - pensar
Swim - nadar
Write - escribir
Palabras similares al español:
Biology - biología
Chemistry- química
Physics - física
Neurology - neurología
Dermatology - dermatología
Cardiology - cardiología
Stomach - estómago
Intestine - intestino
Gland - glándula
El inglés tiene su gramática germánica y las palabras más importantes son germánicas
I don't speak a romance language and that was surprisingly easy to understand
Actually, like 60 percent of English words come from French or Latin.
Here are two alternate versions of English based in linguistic purism:
*Anglish* (Germanic, specifically West Germanic)
*Anglese/Brithenig* (Romance, specifically the Langes d'Oil branch of Gallo-Romance)
Probably don't use the modern Germany flag or the standard German language to represent Anglo-Saxon.... It's like using the modern Italian flag and the Italian language to talk about early-medieval Spanish folk...
Doesn't mention Welsh, how typically English. What's the evidence for St Albans speaking Latin, would be interesting to hear if true. As Gaulish and Brittonic were both P Celtic languages, why would there have been big differences between the two.
I ve yet saw some brits and some yankees linguists, famed linguists speakin' and explayin' that english today have 60% percents in latine vocabulary, fonology and semantics , this all influence came from greek, vulgar/clerical latin, and normand, walloonese french.
Theses thing are facts inside hodiern english. Today they about two ways in movements inside of english nowadays.
First-recuperate anglish, and anglo saxon combine them all with norn, old norse,and old english, yola and restore the new anglo saxon in logical linguistical ways to englishes countries.
The second movement in a complementary way, not a oposition but in parallel to anglo saxon movement, wanna recombine english with frenglish with classical latin and, walloon, jerriais,britonnic,pict, guerseiais, friulian, venetian, occitan, to result in anglic britonnic a latine idiom of all UK and all englishes countries.
I wish Brithenig existed! 😁
Well technically yes. The romans would have spoken a different type of Latin in Britain over time. 😂
English could be considered a partial Romance language.
English is classified as Germanic due to its grammatical structure. The Romance influence comes primarily from Norman French, a form of French spoken in Normandy. The Normans are the descendants of Vikings who settled in Normandy when it is given to them in return for defending France from future Viking raids. The Vikings become assimilated into local population and embrace local language, culture and religion. After the Normans conquered England in 1066, most of the native Anglo-Saxon nobility got supplanted by Norman nobility and Norman French became the court language. Over the generations, Norman French spoken in England become distinct from the one back in Normandy and the local variant become known as Anglo-Norman. The blending of Germanic Anglo-Saxon with Romance Norman French give birth to the English language.
In fact, currently philologists consider the English language as a hybrid, claiming that it is the most correct term with respect to the English language. They consider that grammar cannot be more important than vocabulary, both structures are relevant in a language.
@@georgebaccett9951English borrowed a great deal. However it is proven we can still speak English without latin influence. It is called Anglish. English without latin influence
@@MrLantean English is phonologically more similar to the Germanic languages. Also , its basic and core vocabulary is more similar to the Germanic languages too.
Latin Britain disappeared because the emperor of the Roman empire, Charlemagne, was German so he was the master of the known world at that time
You would have thought the old british romance language would have been like old French. Gaulish and latin being apparently similar.
Independence Flag, not Catalonia flag
+
This video misses the most obvious and still living linguistic evidence of the effect of Latin on the languages of the British Isles. Modern Welsh contains a large corpus of words from the latin of the Romans, for example:
Braich (arm)
Pysgodyn (fish)
Pont (bridge)
Carchar (prison)
Cariad (love)
Llong (ship)
Ffenestr (window)
Eglwys (church)
Aur (Gold)
Lleidr (thief)
Ysgrifennu (to write)
Llyfr (book)
Trist (sad)
Many of these have been 'Brythonicised/Welshified', but some think they would already have been different in form from classical Latin, as they would have been likely adopted from British Vulgar Latin.
wow! aur & trist are exactly the same in Romanian!
It would be called Inglish
English is ~40% French, too..
Well, we Lombards are germanic but we speak a romance language, Lombard.
Mister please, Lombards are not Germanic. They had a few conquerors show up who ended up assimilating and passing on their name to the regional identity. Lombards are as German as Spaniards in Asturias (because of the Visigoths) or Ukrainians in Kiev (because of the Scandinavian Rus) or French in Paris (because of the Franks). People from Lombardy are much more likely to have Celtic and Italic genes, than anything Germanic. You may be more Germanic than other folks in Italy, but I hate to say it, you ain't Germanic, bro, despite the name, not even close, even if you are more organized and serious looking than others in your country, even with language aside, and whatever the myths tell ya, you just ain't. Sorry.
: )
One book I read referred to this as the Germanic curse. Germanic speakers overran the western empire as far south as the Sahara, and they all ended up replacing their languages with Latin and its descendants.
Yes, Modern English. No, you can't convince me that Modern English is a Germanic language.
It is pretty much a Germanic language.
What you really know about England, its culture, style, language, castles, royalty, etc. it's Norman. The Anglo-Saxons in a single battle lost everything, I repeat, in a single battle they lost everything (battle of hastings). Ironically, the word England comes from Old Anglo-Saxon meaning "land of the Angles", but the "land of the Angles" remained in the hands of the Normans to this day. By the way, (Modern English) does not come from Anglo-Saxon, Modern English comes from Medieval English, which was heavily influenced by the Anglo-Norman language, which is considered to be the fifth variant of the Norman language (a Romance language). This explains the colossal influence that Latin has on English, which is why philologists consider English a hybrid language and not a purely Germanic one.
Partner, friend remake this video, in a deep content vulgar wich name can be vulgar latin and the roots of english like a romance language.
Vulgar Latin never existed