What is Cartridge Headspace? ~ A Comprehensive Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2018
- You have heard the term "headspace", and perhaps have wondered just what it is. You've also heard about various case designs and have wondered what they are, or how they affect headspace. While you certainly don't need to understand either to enjoy a lifetime of shooting, you will have a better understanding of your various guns and the ammo they shoot after watching this video. This is mandatory knowledge for any buyer of well-used, antique, or military guns! Also learn what headspace gauges are and how to use them.
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Very clever opening.
I'm so slow and I'm such a simpleton that my friend had to help me realize that very clever opening. 🙂
This ,my friends , is youtube Gold level content. °°°wishing for this as my retired life °°°° Gunblue ! Best firearm content on all of the internet. Great work and please keep them rolling. I even suffer through all the ads for your $. Jpquad
Welcome back to you too.
Informative as always, it’s always good to learn.
Funny beginning! Here in South Africa we have a slightly derogatory nickname for older balding guys - "bullets"! Rather apt for the opening scene. Thanks for all the videos, knowledge from the older generation is gold!
I subscribe to hundreds of TH-cam channels. This one is the one I am most drawn to... hands down. Fantastic instructional video as usual, sir. Thanks again for taking the time and effort to make it. Please tell Mrs. GunBlue490 thanks as well for being patient with you while you're making all these wonderful videos over the years. Peace.
Your videos are a very bright spot in my life. Thanks
Yes I get so excited when a new one comes out. Thank you very much for all of this priceless information in such a digestible format. I'm well over 70 episodes in and loving it.
Thank you for making this and all the other videos you have generously made. I am very grateful for all the things that I have learned from you.
Excellent tutorial as always, thanks for taking the time to produce these!
Thank's for yet another great video. You have the knack for explaining things so clearly. God bless
Another wonderful video! Great information, clearly explained! and relevant to every shooter's needs. Great video.
Thanks. As always good stuff. I use as a reference to teach others. Your presentation comes across better than any textbook I have found
Hands down the best explanation of headspace...you sure are a master teacher. Thanks so much. God bless.👍
Excellent videos sir! Easy to understand explanations and easy to follow. It should take away the mystery of headspace four people. God bless you and your family
I learned a great deal as I chuckled through the opening and some of the hidden punch lines. Your passing comments about the magnums all being fun to shoot cracked me up.
On the serious side though, your explanations were clear and easily understood. Some of the best things about your videos are the little historical notes that you toss in while discussing other topics. This will be one video that many of us will watch a few times to catch the every idea you packed in it.
As always, thanks for sharing your insights and say hello to Benny for all of us!
Always enjoy your informative videos. Hope Benny is doing well. 👍🐶🇺🇸😎
Benny is doing wonderully, and sends his regards. Thank you.
I learn something valuable from every video you produce. I goes without saying that I watch every one of them. Keep education rolling...
Really like your style man
Enjoy listening to you
Takes my mind off things that bothering me. Thank you!
Thank you sir, today was a great day because I learned something new. I never was truly sure that I knew the exact difference between a rimmed and a rimless case. Thanks to you I am finally convinced that I do now!
Sir, there is no doubt you have forgotten more information about guns and bullets than I have learned to date. Great videos!
Welcome back.. Excellent as always. Thanks
I am very happy to see a steadier flow of videos. Thanks so much for passing on great information. God bless you.
Well, I try to keep up with them according to the time I have available. Thank you for watching and the encouragement. God bless you as well.
@@GunBlue490 hope my message wasn't received in any way condescending. I really appreciate your work.
‘Half-cooked linguinI” 😂😂😂 Great video and love your dry humor. Much needed clarification of this subject. Thanks so much. Love your videos. I’ve watched them all, most multiple times
Great example of the KISS principal. Merry Christmas
and keep those videos coming.
Thank you! I love a refresher class. I load the same thing over and over its nice to go back over the basics.
Say hi to Benny for me! 😀
He is the smartest gun guy on the internet!
This man is a treasure. Listen to him and learn everything you possibly can. Theres a lot of garbage on TH-cam and the internet. THIS man is the REAL DEAL!!!
Verrryyy clever openig!!! Sir I delight in a contribution You provide to the universe!!
It is amazing how you got each of the cartridges to line up perfectly with the one below it.
AWESOME TIPS SIR, LOVE THE VIDEOS...GOD BLESS
i love the intro. this guy is awesome.
Great explanation, sir. As always!
Thank you sir. Your channel is really special. Your love of firearms and teaching about them seemingly is only exceeded by your love for our Savior.
WHAT A GENIUS INTRO SIR BUT AS A RELOADER MYSELF, I CAUGHT IT RIGHT AWAY. You notice I didn't refer to myself as a genius but as a reloader, WHAT YOU DID WAS PURE GENIUS TO SAY THE LEAST.
nowr2run oh hell I didn’t even get the opening until I read this comment
Another good video. Some day I would like to see a video on what prompted the development of WSM and WSSM cartridges.
Great information. Thank you.
This is why I subscribe to the channel!
Intro made me chuckle. Good stuff.
Very informative video! Thank you Sir👍🇨🇦
Good one young man! If you ever think about it, I'd like to see something on the .35 Remington. Prayers that Benny is doing ok. God bless n Merry Christmas.
Great show
I don't reload so I do not need to know this information, as you said, but it is always nice to know how things work. At the very minimum, I learned the difference between the purposes of Rim and an Extraction groove. Excellent video.
It doesn't matter if you reload or not, it matters if you buy an old firearm.
@@NoWr2Run I don't do that either. The latest gun I got, Ruger PC Carbine, was released less than a year ago.
Then CARRY ON MY GOOD MAN, I got bit by the MILSURP BUG, YOU RELLY HAVE TO WATCH OUT WHAT YOU BUY.
thanks for well explanations. great.
A comment solely for consideration. Your channel is flourishing simply because of your knowledge and the personality you have while offering it. Both, are simply wonderful. I don't know if you're being coached, though I do assume so, but adding ads has traditionally been a channel killer. We all expect them at the beginning though, just so you know.
However, after a predetermined time, perhaps adding them isn't quite as terminal.
As I said, simply for your consideration. If you would like me to delete this comment, it will be done.
Very informative thank you very much . Sir
HAHAHAH!!! Great intro, love all your video's !!!
I subscribed to your channel a few months ago and have watched some of your videos. I would like to see you do some more close-up shots of what you're talking about, with the camera being more in-focus. Things like the belt on belted ammo, other things that have small dimensions like gun parts, they are fun to study when you have a focused picture of the part. Have a great day and God bless!
Brilliant and I love the nickle cases. I use them in my edc assuming the brass might undergo some undesirable effects, chemical changes. It does stay loaded.
Awesome intro!
yes agreed, nice opening. good visualization.
"CAAtridge" headspace... you wouldn't happen to be from Boston (or thereabouts), would you? SUPERB video, comprehensive, amusing and very informative - many thanks. Best Wishes from the UK.
Love that intro BOSS
Thank you!
You're the best👍👍👍What's Benny doing? 🤔
Like all your videos keep them coming I would like to reload any tips on the best accuracy loads 4 my 8mm mauser
The intro was pretty funny
LOL, LOVE IT!!!
Superb video as always, I have to ask did you polish all those round?, that’s the sort of thing I would do ha!
As a chef presents his dish.
@@GunBlue490 Splendid.
Hello GunBlue, enjoy your videos. I have an Anshutz rifle chambered for Hornet
Cartridge Had it rechambered to the
K-Hornet strictly target
Shooting I enjoyed shooting a lot down in Tennessee I haven’t fired this rifle in a few years now. I noticed that the accuracy went downhill after the rechambering. I loaded
My own using mostly 680 powder which I found to be best for this gun. About 11 or 12 grains. I was a novice but learned to turn the necks & primer pockets etc Any suggestions for a similar cartridge for better accuracy? Was looking at the 22 Brat
Thank you Sir.
that was funny on opening, head space. LOL
Quick Question... So if I understand correctly... In that split second after the trigger is pulled and the firing pin drives the cartridge forward until it is stopped (by belt, rim, shoulder or mouth), the brass case will expand with detonation "gripping" the walls of the chamber while the case stretches backward to fill the headspace that is now located at the rear of the cartridge? If this is true, how far should I bump shoulders back in my sizing die to give as little stretch room for cartridges and still have them function properly? You are a wealth of knowledge and I have learned so much! Thank you!
Great as always! Hope you and Benny are doing great! One question, is it normal that a milspec M16 closes on a no-go gauge. I have been taking to a friend that is the military and he told me that it's due to NATO specs, ( 5.56 vs .223). Do you agree?
Great information, thank you sir. How about someone building an AR 15 themselves, say from an assortment of parts? Can the headspace be an issue between the barrel and bolt? Should one test with gauges or stick to one manufacturer for the bolt and barrel?
The AR-15 is a particular combination of drawn blueprints with standard dimensions that together constitute a completed rifle, by design. It's a perfect recipe, but things can happen between mixing bowl and table. Not all AR parts are created equal, and not all parts are made to the standard that would grant them a government contract, or worse. Headspace is the barrel maker's responsibility, and if a barrel comes from a reasonably priced, solid, reputable firm, such as my nearby Green Mountain Barrels made in New Hampshire, or Rock River Arms, for instance, any specification bolt will work perfectly. Certain brand names have gained great prominence in this industry in recent years, which is generally the result of their support of shooting stars in the competition game, writer support, and heavy marketing, but does not necessarily mean they produce a superior product than the next guy; just one with notoriety, and the resulting fame grants them sales, and with it, increased prices to the moon. Of course, everyone thinks that one must buy from such companies, but 'taint so. Be very leery of barrel makers that assert that their barrel must be paired to their expensive bolt, with claims that they are "mated" for best fit. If true, they are working off non-standard specification to entrap a market, and if their specification is according to original design, they are spouting nonsense. A spec extension wedded to a spec bolt is headspaced to the chamber with a spec gauge, and that's all there is to it. A specification receiver is nothing particularly sexy, and any maker who adds claims or changes designs is one to steer clear of with your wallet. Conversely, cheaply made receivers can point barrels off center, and can be a woe. If possible stick with parts made by firms that make government parts for government rifles, and you'll be very happy. There are, of course, great triggers for the one so inclined, such as Geissele. If your assortment of parts is of quality origin, they will fit together.
GREAT intro... LOL!!! You're such a prankster.
Hold on one second…. Stop the presses!!! Nearly 100 comments
and not one mention of the apron he is wearing??? One of the best sandwiches I’ve ever eaten!!!
God bless you
I always watch gunblue490 and learn something new. He really done the gun community a great service.
You have to watch out when reloading for the 30-30, pumps & some lever actions guns require special dies called pump or small base dies to resize the casing to fit the chamber correctly, so it won't jam the gun.
I deal with that issue in my reloading series, but thank you for your concern.
Great video. One question, Since the bottle neck belted magnum head spaces on the belt, allowing the neck to form fire to the chamber dimensions, is it a better practice to just neck resize to prevent working the brass more than necessary? Of course assuming that you are always using the cases in the same rifle.
Thanks, Jeff
Yes, the case should be sized minimally, but enough to allow easy chambering. Some dies will size too much, and will result in excessive case stretch in front of the belt that can fail and seriously damage the chamber. It's called incipient case separation and can be seen as a white line, either partially or completely around the circumference. Cases that headspace on the shoulder do stretch, but it tends to be distributed, rather than confined.
@@GunBlue490 Thank you. I will be on the lookout for signs of case damage. So I guess you might call this a flaw in design, well, sort of. I inherited the rifle from my dad who inherited it from his dad who had it built from a 1903 Springfield. Chambered it for .308 Norma magnum. Way too much gun for most circumstanced. Not exactly what I would have chosen had I been shopping for a cartridge.
Thanks again.
When you zero your centerfire rifle, using a standard plex reticle, how high at 100 yards do you set yours? Do you do this different according to caliber?
I recommend that you watch two of my videos, where I answer your question in detail; "How to Choose a Rifle Scope Sensibly in a Confusing Market", and "How to Sight in a Scoped Rifle with Simplicity and Without Expense". Short answer, every cartridge and bullet combination has a different trajectory and requires setting your scope to meet it at your required ranges.
I have a bunch of delinked Korean 30-06 from 1972. 10% of the rnds have dents either on the shoulder or wall. What is your esteemed opinion on the outcome of shooting these dented rnds.
If they will chamber and cycle, and as long as the dents caused no serious distortion or grossly inverted creases, there is no hazard. Military grade 30-06 is loaded to lower pressures at a nominal 2,750 feet per second. However, consider it corrosive primed. Under normal circumstances, because the corrosive action doesn't normally occur until after firing, it will last for decades, but I have seen internally corroded cases split and cause gas cutting in chambers, too. My suggestion is to sacrifice two or three of the more dented rounds to inspect the condition of the brass, which may have become brittle. Pull the bullets, dump the powder, and cut the cases in two crosswise with a hacksaw like you'd cut a pipe. Look for any obvious signs of corrosion. Next, collapse the brass with pliers and see if the brass is still plastic, or breaks, indicating brittleness. Don't use if any deterioration is apparent, as it can cause irreparable damage to your gun. Never reload corrosive primed brass, as the firing sets up crystallization.
What about checking the headspace on the older lever guns? Would the procedure differ to check the headspace on a Savage model 99 compared to a Winchester model 70? Would you use the same no and go gauges?
Headspace measurement is an industry standard that relates only to chamber dimensions for given cartridges, using the same gauges, no matter how old a gun is, or its design.
When I load my 300 win mag, I generally only neck size the brass. I find this improves accuracy and case life. I only have 1 rifle in that chambering so I dont need to worry about mixing up which brass is for which rifle. Would this make the round headspace off the shoulder? Or does it still use the belt? When I close the bolt I notice that it closes a bit harder on my neck sized reloads than it does on factory ammunition.
I would say it head spaces off of the belt as it should. If you're getting resistance from your reloads by just neck sizing go with a F L special collet die.
Yes, you are proceeding correctly. Though the round technically headspaces from the belt, it should be resized to support the shoulder for best case life, just as with rimless cartridges. Thanks for watching.
Can I get you to talk about Hog Hunting and an appropriate round. How do you feel about the Browning BAR 3? Thanks
Hogs are not prevalent in the New England states, so I have never hunted them. However, I certainly like the Browning BAR, and consider it one of the finest auto loading rifles made. It's an excellent choice for any game hunting. For hogs up to 100 pounds, I'd feel good with 100 grain bullets in the 243, and perhaps 140 grain in 7mm-08 if you plan on dealing with big ones.
@@GunBlue490 Thank you so much for the reply, I am really learning a lot from your videos. I wish I would have seen them before I bought my 7mm rem mag. I wanted a .270 and was talked out of it by more experienced hog hunters. I hunt Missouri whitetail and hogs up to 300lbs. God Bless and keep up the good work.
After watching, I have no idea what a go gauge, no go gauge, or field gauge is. I have an 1893 Turkish Mauser with mis matched serial numbers. New factory made 8mm ammo cycles flawlessly, and the cartridge appears to fit correctly. But I haven't fired it yet because of that head space thing. I get how the figure is arrived at with the 8mm Mauser cartridge, but still don't know how to measure for it.
This is unrelated but no one can answer my question so I thought of you. My S&W 610. On slow DA trigger pulls it measures 5 lbs and I get light strikes. On a faster DA trigger pull I get 7.5 lbs trigger pull works fine. I don't understand why they are different. Does the spring need replacement? Or is it something else? I don't know revolver mechanics that well. It does have a Miculek spring kit and a bobbed hammer as well.
Your help would be appreciated.
Sure, it's pretty simple. A hammer swings an arc of slightly greater degrees than the engagement of the double action mechanism. When pulled slowly, it drops from a slightly shorter arc. When pulled vigorously, the hammer is being tossed all the way, and it is rebounding off the stop point, which is like bouncing a ball off a hard surface. The difference is very slight, but I can tell you that your gun would not pass a manual function test. In other words, when your gun cannot be relied on 100 percent, your gun is defective, of the worst sort. I know he's a skilled shooter, but he has no business selling spring kits that reduce the intended hammer force of a gun. The hammer force is intentionally set to provide required force on any primer, under any conditions, and it's not an "over" liability setting, as many believe. Bobbing the hammer reduces mass, which compounds the issue. In fact, a bobbed hammer requires MORE spring force to provide equal blow, not less. It may work sufficiently with the original spring, but I would not bet on it with all primers. Do yourself a favor and do some finger exercises to build strength, rather than fool around with hammer force. I taught many officers, and a great many were highly competent and did it with full factory springs. That's one of the greatest scams in the shooting sport. A practiced shooter is a strong shooter.
I shoot the *rebated rim* 300 RUM.
I know you can change the head space by bumping the shoulder on say a 223 or 308, etc. But how do you change it on say a rimmed cartridge like a 30-30?
I don't understand why one would shorten a case to change its headspace. Unless one were to grind the base of a sizing die to shorten it, one cannot "bump" a case and make it shorter than factory standard. Please explain what you mean by changing headspace. That would create excess headspace in a standard chamber, which is a bad thing. A full length sizing die, when set normally down to the shell holder, will always resize the case back to original size. It can only size a case fully to standard factory compliance, unless it is foolishly altered. If it does not reach the shell holder, the case will not fully enter, resulting in neck sizing.
@@GunBlue490 rcbs sells shell holders designed to change the bump of the shoulder. factory resizing may be to sloppy for precision shooters.
@@GunBlue490 No comment? about changing the head space on your cartridge to match your chamber? I was just curious if you could make a 30-30 cartridge a better fit in your own chamber. easy to do on the shoulder of a rimless, but what about a rimmed cartridge like a 30-30?
What category would .50GI fall under? The case diameter is .526 and the rim diameter is .480?
Also, im new to the hand loading world and your videos have been a priceless, and greatly appreciated, resource for me. Thank you very much for your content.
A rimless case with a smaller rim diameter than its body is classified as a rebated rim design. They were once quite unusual, but a becoming more popular as a means of using a restricted size bolt face with an enlarged case, as with the AR rifle.
Very Funny !lol
I think you said it wrong at 26:15 a field gage is ok to close, and a no go gage is not ok to close
A NO-GO is the factory standard. A FIELD is the acceptable maximum after the gun has worn and accepts the NO-GO. Field gauges are never used for gun building. I reiterate: If you have a gun that accepts a NO-GO, it may be checked with a FIELD gauge. It must not accept the FIELD. Hope that helps.
GunBlue490 yup it helps I only have one field gage, and I just found out it may be made incorrectly or modified to be a gage for something in between go and nogo. Either way I’ll get a new gage, thanks for making me research the proper use of these gages
I used to own a 220 swift and was told it was a semi rimed case. can you explain?
That is correct. In order not to confuse matters with extraordinary departures from the norm, I did not speak of either semi-rimmed or rebated rimmed cartridges. Your 220 Swift (which I plan on covering soon) was Winchester's development, now celebrating 80 years. It was simply a necked-down 6mm Lee Navy case to .224". The rebated rim was employed by them in their .284 Winchester, where they used a rim that would fit the standard .473" ('06 size) bolt face, while having a wider case body that would fit into their short action Models 88 lever and 100 autoloading rifles in order to attain long action 280 Remington ballistic performance. The recently introduced 224 Valkyrie is the only other rebated rim commercial cartridge that I am aware of, and the Swift is the only semi-rimmed, aside from the extinct military case it was derived from. Both the semi and rebated rim cases headspace like a rimless case, on the shoulder. As you no doubt remember, the Swift rim requires that rims be stacked in front of the lower rim in order to feed without hanging up from a boxed magazine.
@@GunBlue490 Thanks. Yes had to layer the Swift for proper feeding. A friend of mine has it now and hunts coyotes with it around his farm. A classic that has been overtaken by the fantastic 22-250!
@@GunBlue490 Thank you
What about rebated rims.
What about them? They have rebated rims. The 284 Winchester and Valkeri have them, to allow a larger case with standard bolt faces. Very uncommon.