The Thumb in Piano Technique | The Piano Prof with Kate Boyd
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- In piano technique, the thumb operates somewhat differently than other fingers. This detailed tutorial on the use of the thumb in piano technique will help you gain clarity on the role of the thumb in playing the piano.
00:00 Intro
00:10 The "problem" of the thumb in playing the piano
01:43 The joints in the thumb
04:38 Thumb exercise: playing from the 3rd joint
06:06 Where to play the thumb on the piano key
07:56 The 4 ways the thumb can play a note on the piano
Demonstrations:
08:27 Czerny "School of Velocity" Number 14
09:02 Kabalevsky Piano Sonata No. 3
10:04 Shostakovich Piano Concerto No. 2
10:35 3 ways to practice octaves
11:56 Debussy Pour le Piano: Prélude
12:54 Haydn F Major Sonata, Hob. XVI: 23
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I feel like crying every time I think about my past piano instructors not stressing technique and the flaws in my playing are so obvious. I thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with us. I recently started lessons with a classically trained instructor and it's amazing how he worked on my posture (sitting; distance from the piano) just like I saw in your videos. Thank you so much!
Thanks for sharing - you can do it!
This is very good. I got through a masters in advanced performance at a top conservatoire without understanding this (and lots else) and after a frustrating and unfulfilling freelance career of 15 years, moving away from solo performance into chamber music, toward conducting, composing and teaching and finally ending up in 2019 so disillusioned I gave up playing altogether. After a year of not touching the piano at all I've come back, done thorough research and rebuilt my technique from first principles, completely amazed at how wrong it had felt in my hands for 30 odd years. I managed to free up all the muscles in my hand which had been locked up through carelessly taught ideas like "finger strength" "grip the keys" "support in the hand" and the worst, "don't use the fingers, use arm weight, wrist undulation and rotation." This video maps very well onto what I discovered in my thumbs, although I have to say that I've come to believe that finger action must be present in every kind of attack on the keyboard, *especially* in octaves and chords, with wrist and arm action coming in only to augment finger action when required. The finger always leads the rest of the body - because that's the only way to feel everything in high resolution in the hand. Anyhow, I wish I'd had a teacher like you at 16!
Thanks for sharing your experiences - I'm sorry to hear about your years of frustration playing the piano. I agree that the fingers should be active; the fingertips need to be firm and they need to be able to support the weight of the arm and move actively when playing the piano.
Sometimes I think people go to the opposite extreme when not wanting to have too much finger tension, so they try to relax EVERYTHING and make the fingers far too passive. While others might find that helpful, I have found in my own teaching and playing that that approach doesn't work as well and leads to a weak tone and an inability to really control the sound.
I believe that it's important to find that balance, where the fingers are active and yet still part of the larger mechanism of the arm, going all the way up to the shoulder (and into the back), so that the larger muscles can support and augment the actions of the fingers.
I'm glad you are getting back to playing - and very gratified to hear that you found the video helpful. Good luck on your continued journey! 🎹😊
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd thanks for your reply! On the contrary though it was precisely the idea of finger firmness that caused all my problems haha - my fingers were very "strong" - useful for Scarlatti, Prokofiev, Scriabin and Bartok, useless for Bach, Chopin and Mozart. I had no control of my lumbricals and was just sending everything from big muscles the arm. Op 10/1 was a complete mystery to me until now - as was a beautiful alberti bass! Now I can feel everything "in the hand" and it blows my mind. I can now play Bach D maj prelude whilst holding a conversation - whereas before I couldn't talk and play at the same time. It's like discovering a whole new circuitry.
Oh right - I agree. Thinking of the entire finger as firm or rigid can cause a world of problems. For me, the "firmness" concept really applies to fingertips only, and it's important to simultaneously have supple lumbricals in the palm of your hand. (Love that word!) Talking about firm fingertips in combination with a loose palm and relaxed arms and shoulders is, for me as a teacher, a way to center awareness in the hand and fingertips, in order to avoid encouraging students to try to control everything using the big muscles only (or sending everything from the big muscles, as you say).
It sounds like you have had a real breakthrough in your technical approach to the piano - congrats on all your progress, and thanks for watching and commenting!
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd Yes this is all exactly my experience. Thanks for your videos I'll be recommending them!
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd These discussions are really interesting and helpful! Thanks to both of you!! :))
Always looking for quality piano content. This channel is definitely one of them. I've only been playing the piano for a year and a half, and this is valuable content. Prevents me from developing bad habits. Thanks for you effort. Much appreciated. 🎼
Thanks so much for your kind words! Glad you are here and finding it helpful! 😊
The beauty of those videos is coming back later and still being to get even more beneficial information than the first time!
Yay! Glad to hear it's still helpful! 😊
Wow! Another wonderful video! I haven’t heard teachers pay attention to thumb position in that precise manner! It help me understand more how to use my thumbs correctly. This is laying foundation for my future grow!
Really appreciate 🙏🙏🙏
Wonderful! This is really great feedback to hear. Good luck with your piano study!
Your tutorial is very well thought out, thank you. The major problem students have when using the thumb is playing scales and arpeggios, the backbone of piano playing. It's using the thumb incorrectly while playing these elements that frequently results in injuries to the thumb because students spend a great deal of time practicing scales and arpeggios. Would you please present a tutorial on the correct use of the thumb when playing scales and arpeggios? It would be much appreciated because you have such a succinct way of presenting your ideas. S'il vous plaît.
Great idea! I'm going to work on that this weekend if I have time. 🙏
Thank you for responding and thank you for caring.@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd
Quite interesting and useful video. Thank you very much !
You are welcome!
Very useful video. Thanks a lot !
Glad it was helpful! Best wishes!
I loooooove you, you are coming along with me on my Music degree now a 2nd year. I’m so grateful for you and so fortunate to have found you.
Wow, thanks so much! Glad you are finding my videos helpful. Happy practicing!
11:57 production tip (turn down gain on your mic input)
Thanks!
Great video!!!!
Glad you enjoyed it! 🎹😊
This Channel is a gift! Thanks! 💜💜
Wow, thank you! Glad you enjoy it! 😊🎹
amazing video!
Thanks! Glad you're here!
And I was just wondering about my thumb! Playing at the nail is super helpful.
Thanks so much!
Happy to help! I was just thinking about my thumb placement today when I was practicing arpeggios in Beethoven.
This is wonderful! I would love a video like this about the pinkie! 🙂
Great idea! I'll add it to my list! 😊
Great video. I recently discovered your channel and find your content really inspiring and helpful - thanks so much
Happy to help! Thanks for being here!
Interesting and helpful! First time watching on the thumb topic, since it always a problem for my thumbs, slow and uncontrolled on voice. Fresh ideas for the 3rd knuckles, never notice this
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing I never thought of the thumb joint at the base of your hand (basically your wrist!) is the same as the other fingers' "knuckle" joints
Yes, that surprised me too when I first learned about it! 😊
I also do a grabbing movement with my thumb, a kind of caressing movement, for a soft and singing tone.
Yessss!
Hi, I'm a low intermediate piano student. I really like your technique lessons. Something that I'm still looking for is a good way to learn is chords. I want to be able to recognize a chord (harmonic or melodic) in any inversion in the music and to be able to play a chord given the chord name. I know how to construct all the chords in any inversion. I'm looking for a practice method so that I can recognize them just like I recognize a word in a sentence. So far, most I've found are rather boring, and if that's all is available, I will continue.
Hi Dr Boyd, after watching your video i went back to my piano and practiced scales using your technique (closing and opening of the hand) instead of trying to turn the wrist upwards which worked but not as smooth as the way how you explained it!! Thanks very much once again!❤❤❤ love your channel!
Thanks so much for your comment! I'm so glad you found this helpful! Good luck in your piano studies!
Amazing channel for my ocd 😂
Hey Prof Kate....Yes! The thumb! Just what I'm fretting over now. I have arthritis in my thumb joints, my problem is picking up the thumb, and striking the key with enough force. It causes a very weak note. Your example of velocity #14, is a similar hand pattern to the bridge of "One Note Samba", which I was playing the other day. Seeing my problem all I could think of is my mother yelling at me "Pick up your Feet!", in my case pick up your thumb. I like the exercise with 3 fingers on the black keys, I'll certainly give that a go. Thanks for sharing your expertise. PS....You think your parties are dull, I was in Electrical Technology during my college years...oh boy....
😂 Glad it's helping. If you are having difficulty picking up your thumb you can always try dropping into the key using the weight of your arm, without dropping your wrist. Maybe some combination of those ideas could help - good luck! 🎹
Wow-- I so appreciate your knowledge and help to all the pianists of all different skill sets ❤️
I have only been playing Piano nine months ( at a community college)and I'm really working on how to play legato and staccato in different hand- as well as training my hands and brain to play forte in one hand and piano in the other. Do you have any tips? Perhaps you could do a video on those if you haven't done one already. Thank you so much I wish I lived in , Indianapolis😂
You're right! It's very important to develop hand independence. My main advice would be to take it very slowly. Slowly enough to be able to monitor and think about the articulation and/or dynamics in each hand.
Try playing a passage or exercise where you are comfortable with the notes (e.g., Hanon) and focus on ONE of those parameters (articulation or dynamics) at a time, playing differently in each hand. Good luck - you got this!
Thank you so much for this. I finished my bachelors in Piano recently, and something in my technique always felt off. I identified the thumb as an issue, the 2nd joint of my right hand seemed to colapse inward. The exercise you provide in this video has been very helpful in improving this.
I feel like the colapsing of the 2nd thumb joint made my entire hand tense and unstable, not only the thumb. Fixing this has been a MAJOR improvement, I honestly don't understand how I played for 2 decades with this habit '^^
Somehow I always collapsed also the knuckle of my second finger when playing the thumb, this made many passages unstable and lead to tension.
And to add on: My teachers telling me to use rotation and relax the wrist etc did absolutly NOT help this issue, in fact it caused more issues because of the "dropping the hand" when playing the thumb motion that comes with rotating the wrist without activating the finger joint.
Thanks for your comment! I'm glad you have made improvement in the thumb - it makes sense that rotation and wrist drops didn't help you, for the reasons you mention. Good luck!
Thank you for these great informations. I got pain in my thumb of the left hand , it taks more than one year , I used many therapy exercises, and improve my playing. Later I listen to your videos , and follows a book mastering piano techniquel about using arm weight . My playing improved and les pain in the thumb. Later I found thumb stretching exercises .in a book by Tilly fleischrmann . It looks not exactly as structhing to increase the length, bot passing the umb under the other fingers up and down beats alternately, and passing othe fingers above the thumb also . The pain is disappeared and my playing is better.
Can you explain how to use these stretching exercises correctly ,, thank you
I'm not familiar with these exercises but I'm glad it helped you!
Really informative and interesting. First time I've heard mention of a double jointed thumb. The thumb on my right hand is extremely double jointed and is very difficult to control !
Glad you found it helpful! I don't have a double-jointed thumb but have worked with several students who do. It can be a challenge but there are definitely techniques to try! Good luck!
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd Thanks you for your reply. This gets a thumbs up! (Sorry I couldn't resist)
@@piano9051 Haha!😂
Hi. JUst came to this wonderful site. Looking forward to correcting some of the habits I've acquired over 60 years of self taught playing. One suggestion? Maybe get a better microphone because this one does not seem to handle the piano sound well. It distorts. Looking forward to looking at ALL the links. Thank you.
Hi! Glad you're here! Thanks for your feedback! Yes, I'm aware that this video was a bit too "hot." I was still in the early learning stages about video and sound production when I made it.
Fortunately, that was two years ago and I've upgraded my equipment since then, so the sound quality should be noticeably better by now! 😊
Kate, if you want another example of the thumb working alongside the fingers, the thumb is alongside the fingers when playing in the "thumb position" on the 'cello, although all the digits act as a kind of fret I suppose rather than a percussive tool...
Good point - that's a great example. It further underscores my point that you'd have to be a pretty advanced cellist before you get to thumb position, whereas for piano playing with the thumb alongside the hand is the default playing position. Not exactly the most "natural" use of the hand - but we soldier on somehow! 😂
Hi, Dr. Boyd, thank you so much for this wonderful video. But why should one curve the thumb when playing the black keys, I think can play it straight, the same as playing the white keys.
You can play it straight, but curving it increases the surface area available to play the key and can improve accuracy on black keys. 😊
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd But will curve the thumb cause tension to the thumb or even worse, to the other part of the hand?
@@ethanking123 Not if you just slightly curve the first knuckle. It just involves turning out the tip of the thumb. You're correct that you don't want to flex the whole thumb in order to curve it, because that can cause tightness. Think of just turning the tip of the thumb out slightly so the thumb is across the black key instead of parallel to it. It will help keep the thumb from slipping off. Hope this helps!
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd It helps a lot! Thanks a million. I appreciate you so much.
The thumb position on the cello uses the thumb in the same plane as the fingers and plays notes along with the other fingers, excluding the pinky. ( responding to your request at the ~30 sec mark)
Yes - that's so true! Thanks for pointing that out.
That said, the thumb position on the cello is an exception to the usual way you play the cello, and that hand position doesn't map onto any normal day-to-day activities that I could think of. Can you think of a way we use our hand as we go about our day that places the thumb alongside the fingers like thumb position on cello, typing or playing a keyboard?
Excellent, Maestra. I was expecting this video.
One thing I've seen in my technique is that i tried to make my hand position "right". I mean, trying to make my hand position look like the example you make when student try to put the thumb below th other fingers. My wrist get Tight.
But the hand position lean a Little to the side. In that position the thumb got free.
I don't know if i explained my point. hahahaha sorry.
Thanks for your comment! From what you describe, it sounds like maybe your thumb was tight, which made your wrist tight, but when you leaned your hand position to the side a little bit, it took the pressure off your thumb, which allowed it to relax and then loosen up your wrist. Does that sound right?
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd That's right. If i lean my hand to the pinky side of each hand, my fingers loosen up. And, my elbow too. I've seen that my elbows must be loose. if my elbows are loose, my hand lean to the pinky side of my hands.
Maestra, if you need ideas for videos, Arm weight would be really cool. How to know when you are using it right, how it feels when you use it.
videos on youtube doesn't go deep on this inportant topic.
Thank you, Maestra.
I'm not sure if you've seen them already, but I made 2 videos on arm weight: the first goes over the concept of getting a heavy, relaxed arm: th-cam.com/video/um-GKUCZef4/w-d-xo.html and the second introduces the idea of Weight Transfer: th-cam.com/video/RBoBNG82iCE/w-d-xo.html
If you've already seen those, I'd love to hear what follow-up questions you have about Arm Weight that I can think about and answer in a future video! 😊
Hi, Prof. Kate! Thank you so much! This was very helpful. I am curious-when you play trills, do you lower your thumb onto the keyboard and primarily use rotation, or do you actively use the thumb? I’ve been working on Bach’s Two-Part Invention No. 4, and when I lower my thumb and rotate, I cannot play the long, left-hand trill up to speed. I’ve tried so many things, and it just won’t work. I have a feeling my thumb is holding me back. Do you have any recommendations? Thanks so much for creating these awesome and informative videos!
Hello @schubertian32! This is a good question! I made a short to address this. Hope it's helpful! th-cam.com/users/shortszVOYpCDBfRg?feature=share
@Schubertian32
1 second ago
Thank you so so much, Professor Kate! I tried your recommendations, and I immediately realized my problem based on your reference to keeping my fingers firm. The last joint in each finger in my left hand breaks in no matter which finger combo I try. This doesn’t happen on the right hand. My fingers feel firm in my RH, but they feel weak, especially on the trill, in my left. The joint collapsing is impacting the evenness of the trill and preventing speed. At least I now know what my issue is! Thank you for your reference to firmness in my fingers. How frustrating that I can’t keep these fingers firm. At any rate, this truly helped! Now to figure out how to prevent my left finger joints from collapsing…maybe pushing up onto the tips? Rounding more?
I can think of another interesting use of the thumb: playing a mallet of percussion instruments (marimba, timpani), you hold the mallet with 4 fingers, very loose, keep the thumbs at the top and glide the thumbs over the instrument. I kept tilting the hands slightly inward towards the thumbs, to play pretending I am playing from the outer corner, when in fact you need to play it from the top, using the whole nail bed, not the corner.
Fascinating - I hadn't thought of that! Thanks for sharing that insight! One thing I'd add is that this example is another example of playing an instrument (and another percussion instrument, at that), and that, like in the case of the piano, the hand position to hold the mallets doesn't appear to mimic or mirror a "natural" hand position that we would organically use doing an everyday activity. But I do appreciate learning about the similarity between the thumb position at the piano and the thumb position at a mallet instrument!
@@ThePianoProfKateBoydIt was a case of me being a piano principal (music theory major) and taking percussion as an elective.
@@jackiepike1466 That makes total sense! 🙂
Cortot said you should turn the thumb and the little finger inwards when playing octaves, and I was taught to play them this way. Do you think you should never bend the thumb at the first joint?
Thanks for your comment! You can definitely bend the thumb at the first joint. I also turn the thumb in a little when I play octaves. I would avoid flexing the thumb and curving it in the opposite direction, though.
Please do a demonstration. I took up playing when I was 63. My goal was to master some easier classical pieces. But arthritis has learnt me two thing, 1 the goal has to be playing easier pieces for my hands 2 pianoplaying is healthy for my hands if I keep to a repertoar with less stress for my hands.
Those are good goals for arthritis. My mother, now in her 80's, has pretty bad arthritis in her hands. She still takes piano lessons and practices daily and she tells me the same thing: it's healthy for her hands if she's not over-stressing the hands.
In this video there are demonstrations starting in 8:27 (you can see the time stamps in the description) - if these weren't sufficiently helpful, I'd love to hear what other types of demonstrations would be helpful so I can keep that in mind when I make future videos about the thumb. I learn so much with every video I make! 😊
Also, curious to hear what repertoire are you currently working on right now? Thanks for watching!
My problem with my thumb is the edge of my thumb scrapes and gets sore. Mind you I can’t get past playing slow, I am a newbie, I feel so bad because of this. How can I learn the notes above and below the staff? I feel so stupid.
What piece are you working on right now?
@The Piano Prof Hi P P, thanks so much for this helpful lesson.53 year old piano student from the UK here. I'm currently working on Gymnopedie No1 by Erik Satie. It's one of my favourites, one l've always dreamt of playing. I started learning it for the first time about 6 years ago, from Denes Agay's Classics to Moderns book 3. I found the piece too challenging back then but to my amazement, having recently started working on it again, I can now play up to bar 21 hands together. 🙋🏾♀️💜🎹🎶🇬🇧
Yay - that's great! Way to go - congratulations! Keep it up! 🎹🔥🎵🥰
Bartók, Suite op. 14, staccatos, tenutos and legatos, it feels like a real workout for the thumbs, both hands. I feel like an expert at trilling because I cannot land on 5-1 chords LH simultaneously while moving up and down the keyboard. Perhaps thinking of the word "bouncing" up and down, rather than "jumping" might fix it? It is a challenge.
That's a great piece! Are you talking about the first movement of the suite? I think the trick is to release each note/chord while moving in the direction of the next note/chord. This is the kind of piece that wrist circles are helpful for - you might want to check out that video, if you haven't already. th-cam.com/video/8jbvOgGxk5c/w-d-xo.html
For many of the LH patterns you could do a counter-clockwise wrist circle, dropping on the bass note (downbeat) and playing the chords lifting out of the keys rather than dropping in. This has the effect of creating a single motion that plays multiple notes/chords, and can help with the issue of the keys going down simultaneously. I hope this helps - good luck!
@@ThePianoProfKateBoyd thank you, Professor! I will try it. Yes. First movement
How do I know which of the forms of playing the thumb do I use on a given piece?
It all depends on the context - within a given piece you will use the thumb differently. If you are doing rotation, for example, the thumb will be played more from the arm, whereas if you are playing scales, the thumb will be played more from the hand. Good luck!
Iam 63yrs old just trying to play the electric key board particularly hymns how do I go about it?alittle theory here and there no particular course work 😮
A teacher can be really helpful at helping you get on the right track and make faster progress. Do you want me to recommend some teachers in your area? Feel free to email me: kateboyd at thepianoprof dot com
I'm so glad I found this video. I recently started making videos of my playing and was rather shocked at how much I arch my thumbs back when I play. (You can see a little bit of it at the end of this short: th-cam.com/users/shortshwNb5-6dd4g ; also in the left hand here: th-cam.com/users/shortsj1G4QgY-KU0). I never knew if it was just tension or if I just had poor technique. I'm still not sure, but I'm going to use some of the exercises you discuss here. Thanks also for the tips on practicing octaves.
Good luck!!
Interesting, but my thumb does not curve backwards like that.😄
Sounds like you already have good thumb position - great job! 😊
Thumbs not grabbing: handball and swimming
Great video. But watch out your sound which is VERY saturated when you play… thumb up … 😂
Thank you for the feedback! Yes, I noticed that too. I had difficulty getting the sound from the different microphones to work well. I hope it's better on subsequent videos - this has been a huge learning curve! 😄