in ZZZ, in the expanded stat menu, it counts the entire value of 'left value+right value' as 'base'. Eg Impact = 100+45 is 145 base, where as in HSR and Genshin, your base value is the left most value (100) and additional stats (45) are on the right. I assumed it was like HSR without first testing it, turns out it takes every value in the character menu as base and only incombat stats are not included from base calculations.
lol it didn't even occur to me that we could just slap a stun specific weapon on her and forget about the passive 😂 That sort of solves using her as a stunner at least. The shield is thick enough as is I'm sure, she has a decent amount of flexibility then for W-engines.
Honestly, I think the +18% DMG bonus is small if you only have 1 DPS agent doing most of the damage. Based on the damage calculation from the wiki, this buff stacks additively with all the +DMG bonus buffs, so it gets diluted with the Swing Jazz, Protopunk and the +Element damage bonus. If you have more than 1 agent as a source of damage however (anomaly teams with 2 DPS, M6 Lucy doing off-field damage), this would be more noticeable. Personally, I'd wait for release and when people get more information on how much DPS and clear times it actually improves.
did you know the ZY 3-5 shit tech swap? it is eat alot of bullet but its kinda duo dps. but agree we need something like Rina Lucy Burnice that able active off field.
@@Kindi001 looked into it, and it looks like an interesting tech to use. You can use her Evasive Assist +Follow-up to put her back on field and recover 3 bullets, so you can do 4 full rotations until you run out of bullets. You can recover all 9 bullets anyway by using EX > Chain > Ult for her stun burst rotation.
i wouldnt mind the stun % or the Shield but the 18% team buff is quite something that makes this weapon very interesting. I think ZzZ is kinda the same as HSR when it comes to Weapons. Everyone can go for a 4* but if we are honest its quite a difference to most Signatures.
Appreciate the breakdown on engines, was waiting for a video like this! I think my plan is to use Anby’s engine and wait and see if I pull for the signature. My assumption is the shield size is negligible, since it’s easy to refresh and at 1 shield it can stop a full attack.
For anyone who is still in doubt, and don't mind the leak, maybe you can wait for beta 1.3, camelia weengine appears even though there is no attacker agent in patch 1.2
Super informative, these comparisons are exactly what I have been looking for. Most players who are low spenders/f2p (imo) will rarely if ever pull on weapon banners in gacha games, so videos like these are very helpful. Subbed.
I had this exact question. I'm much more confident in using Lycaon's signature on her, as I really only care about her shields (I'm a mobile player). I'll just run 2PC Shockstar, 4PC Proto Punk. Thank you for your comparisons! You're a life saver :D
@@AyaKa-y2e She can’t use the engine’s passive, but since her shields scale with her impact, you can throw any stun engine on her and she’ll do fine (except one, I forgot which one).
Thanks for the info, stunner engine it is. I'm a bit of a weird one, so I'm actually also planning to test using an anomaly engine just for my Piper team lol
Well I’m not picking up Burnice and my Caesar is guaranteed so I’ll be pickup up her and her W-Engine. Her kit is insanely strong so it feels worth the investment.
I planned to roll for her engine, but since the banner lineup changed, I'll end up saving that for Burnice's banner since I want Lucy's weapon. I've got enough of Anton's engines for a full team from my time rolling at Ellen's...
I plan on picking up her engine bc it’s a general good engine that in theory should work on any defensive unit coming out in the future. I mean it already is a fantastic engine for Ben (better than his sig imo) and 2nd best option for Seth after his Sig. Honestly all the limited signature engines before this were really only good for the characters they are for, which is okay I guess, but I like versitile engines so I would never pull on an engine that’s niche like the previous ones unless it was my favorite character I guess(?) I’m a low spender just buying the season pass so I h e to make choices.
From Genshin, to HSR, now to ZZZ. I have always been very stubborn and stingy when it comes to signature weapons. I have a personal rule where I never pull for their signatures inherent value, because then I’d always have a reason to pull for them. It wouldn’t make sense for Hoyo to release a signature that doesn’t have inherent value over the next best option, so if that’s your metric. You’ll always a reason to pull. I only ever pull for signature weapons if I feel that that character deserves it on an aesthetic and personality level. I have yet to pull for a signature W Engine in ZZZ, nor will I be with Caesar. P5 Original Transmorpher it is for me
In Genshin It's rare for me to pull sig weap. Fav weapons often give me smoothest rotations. In HSR I almost have no chance to pull sig and rather go for premium supports. Atleast, the LC gacha system is better so it is ok to throw 10pull on really impactful LCs without losing any wishes value(like spent wishes from lost fate points). For ZZZ, it is too early to pull such. Game is easy and we have no idea where to direction is going or how many units can benefit from these wenjins compared to free options.
Same mate. The weapon banners in each of the games are extreme bait, basically just offering a bigger number. For Genshin I didn't roll on the weapon banner for years, though recently (with a lot of savings) I've been dabbling in it a bit more. HSR since launch, only Acheron got her sig. For ZZZ, I may get Ellen's on rerun as I've grown to really like her (and Nekomata's engine works but is def a bit scuffed). Will be doing the same for Caesar. Transmorpher certainly isn't as good as the sig but it will get the job done.
while i find your logic very relateable, i do think another factor for me is the comfort vertical prog gives as well as lessening the pain of going for too many characters forcing you to be on this endless treadmill of building characters. if only gear grinding isnt so rng.
thanks for including spring embrace :D are you going to calculate an entire team's rotation damage worth with/without caesar's signature w-engine to gauge the difference the damage buff grants? caesar's team compositions and buffs are different enough from Qingyi with ice-jade teapot that I think it warrants a separate calculation rather than just subtracting 2% (18% from caesar's vs 20% from qingyi's engine) from the damage numbers of the individual teams.
I know Spring Embrace was mentioned in the utility part, but how would Seth's engine compare? Have an extra one at R5 so hoping that can work for now :)
Thanks for this. I'm more on the fence because do I pull her now or wait a year for her rerun and "suffer"? It's a Kazuha/Zhongli or Ruan Mei/Robin scenario, honestly.
I find that faster stun isn’t always better anyway unless you can 1 cycle the enemy, so i’m just going to use whatever. The engine is tempting, but i think going for an attacker engine would be better overall.
It doesn't feel worth it to me. I am going to wait and test out how big her shield is without her W engine, if it's big enough, I will only pull her without engine. If it's not enough, I will probably not pull for her at all. Same thing with stun times. If it takes her too long to stun compared to other defense agents, no pull. But I am optimistic she is going to be busted either way. 1000 attack and a 25 percent damage taken buff are pretty strong on their own, that's not even taking into account the anti-interrupt.
you can equip any engine on any character, the main stat and secondary stat are always active. the special effect only applies if the character is the same type as the engine.
tldr: If you get Caesar then get her sig weapon, as per usual with any limited S-rank character. It's also really good on Ben and Seth as they both shield and provide different buffs to go along with that daze/ATK% on the w-engine. Pretty much a universally great w-engine for any defender now or in the future.
Caesar Sig weapon is universal for any future Defenders thats alone is good, and talking about the character, i think the game become more aggresive (enemies that never stop attacks in multi sussecion of big attacks), and defender shields are a future meta to finish the job (not to mention the anti interupt thats is even more important for combos of any dps)
Hoyo really went dirty with weapons in this game, compared to Genshin and HSR. All f2p weapons don't even have needed sub stat for new characters. It was like this with cat boy and now same with Caesar. I guess we just have to start using wrong type wengines and forget about passives....
Bro thought we wouldn't notice the reupload
Got jebaited by the tooltip.. smh
@@nakfr0g which part is different
in ZZZ, in the expanded stat menu, it counts the entire value of 'left value+right value' as 'base'. Eg Impact = 100+45 is 145 base, where as in HSR and Genshin, your base value is the left most value (100) and additional stats (45) are on the right.
I assumed it was like HSR without first testing it, turns out it takes every value in the character menu as base and only incombat stats are not included from base calculations.
@@nakfr0g so Original Transmorpher doesn’t count for the Impact shield, as it’s a combat Impact% modifier
lol it didn't even occur to me that we could just slap a stun specific weapon on her and forget about the passive 😂 That sort of solves using her as a stunner at least. The shield is thick enough as is I'm sure, she has a decent amount of flexibility then for W-engines.
Honestly, I think the +18% DMG bonus is small if you only have 1 DPS agent doing most of the damage. Based on the damage calculation from the wiki, this buff stacks additively with all the +DMG bonus buffs, so it gets diluted with the Swing Jazz, Protopunk and the +Element damage bonus.
If you have more than 1 agent as a source of damage however (anomaly teams with 2 DPS, M6 Lucy doing off-field damage), this would be more noticeable.
Personally, I'd wait for release and when people get more information on how much DPS and clear times it actually improves.
did you know the ZY 3-5 shit tech swap? it is eat alot of bullet but its kinda duo dps. but agree we need something like Rina Lucy Burnice that able active off field.
@@Kindi001 looked into it, and it looks like an interesting tech to use. You can use her Evasive Assist +Follow-up to put her back on field and recover 3 bullets, so you can do 4 full rotations until you run out of bullets. You can recover all 9 bullets anyway by using EX > Chain > Ult for her stun burst rotation.
i wouldnt mind the stun % or the Shield but the 18% team buff is quite something that makes this weapon very interesting. I think ZzZ is kinda the same as HSR when it comes to Weapons. Everyone can go for a 4* but if we are honest its quite a difference to most Signatures.
Zhu Yuans wasn’t that much ahead of f2p analogues tho
Appreciate the breakdown on engines, was waiting for a video like this! I think my plan is to use Anby’s engine and wait and see if I pull for the signature. My assumption is the shield size is negligible, since it’s easy to refresh and at 1 shield it can stop a full attack.
For anyone who is still in doubt, and don't mind the leak, maybe you can wait for beta 1.3, camelia weengine appears even though there is no attacker agent in patch 1.2
what does this mean exactly?
@@RogerNbr if pattern is correct, then in 1.3 we will get a free w-engine from the event, but we still don't know what type it is
Super informative, these comparisons are exactly what I have been looking for. Most players who are low spenders/f2p (imo) will rarely if ever pull on weapon banners in gacha games, so videos like these are very helpful. Subbed.
awesome info! love the testing and the numbers
I had this exact question. I'm much more confident in using Lycaon's signature on her, as I really only care about her shields (I'm a mobile player). I'll just run 2PC Shockstar, 4PC Proto Punk. Thank you for your comparisons! You're a life saver :D
She can use stunner wengine?
@@AyaKa-y2e She can’t use the engine’s passive, but since her shields scale with her impact, you can throw any stun engine on her and she’ll do fine (except one, I forgot which one).
my personal policy is that if I win the 50/50 I spend the remaining pulls I would have spent on the w-engine, if I fail the 50/50 no w-engine for me.
very informative. I decided to go for Anby WEngine thanks
I'm going to use a stun weapon just for the impact stats
Thanks for the info, stunner engine it is. I'm a bit of a weird one, so I'm actually also planning to test using an anomaly engine just for my Piper team lol
thanks for the info. was gonan go for the transfmorfer but now i think i'll just stick with a stun engine since idc about the health.
Well I’m not picking up Burnice and my Caesar is guaranteed so I’ll be pickup up her and her W-Engine. Her kit is insanely strong so it feels worth the investment.
I swear I just watched this
I planned to roll for her engine, but since the banner lineup changed, I'll end up saving that for Burnice's banner since I want Lucy's weapon. I've got enough of Anton's engines for a full team from my time rolling at Ellen's...
I plan on picking up her engine bc it’s a general good engine that in theory should work on any defensive unit coming out in the future. I mean it already is a fantastic engine for Ben (better than his sig imo) and 2nd best option for Seth after his Sig.
Honestly all the limited signature engines before this were really only good for the characters they are for, which is okay I guess, but I like versitile engines so I would never pull on an engine that’s niche like the previous ones unless it was my favorite character I guess(?) I’m a low spender just buying the season pass so I h e to make choices.
From Genshin, to HSR, now to ZZZ. I have always been very stubborn and stingy when it comes to signature weapons. I have a personal rule where I never pull for their signatures inherent value, because then I’d always have a reason to pull for them. It wouldn’t make sense for Hoyo to release a signature that doesn’t have inherent value over the next best option, so if that’s your metric. You’ll always a reason to pull. I only ever pull for signature weapons if I feel that that character deserves it on an aesthetic and personality level. I have yet to pull for a signature W Engine in ZZZ, nor will I be with Caesar. P5 Original Transmorpher it is for me
W-Engines in this game are basically stat-sticks. There is no aesthetic value, other than glowing hair when using EX.
In Genshin It's rare for me to pull sig weap. Fav weapons often give me smoothest rotations.
In HSR I almost have no chance to pull sig and rather go for premium supports. Atleast, the LC gacha system is better so it is ok to throw 10pull on really impactful LCs without losing any wishes value(like spent wishes from lost fate points).
For ZZZ, it is too early to pull such. Game is easy and we have no idea where to direction is going or how many units can benefit from these wenjins compared to free options.
Same mate. The weapon banners in each of the games are extreme bait, basically just offering a bigger number. For Genshin I didn't roll on the weapon banner for years, though recently (with a lot of savings) I've been dabbling in it a bit more. HSR since launch, only Acheron got her sig. For ZZZ, I may get Ellen's on rerun as I've grown to really like her (and Nekomata's engine works but is def a bit scuffed).
Will be doing the same for Caesar. Transmorpher certainly isn't as good as the sig but it will get the job done.
while i find your logic very relateable, i do think another factor for me is the comfort vertical prog gives as well as lessening the pain of going for too many characters forcing you to be on this endless treadmill of building characters. if only gear grinding isnt so rng.
thanks for including spring embrace :D are you going to calculate an entire team's rotation damage worth with/without caesar's signature w-engine to gauge the difference the damage buff grants?
caesar's team compositions and buffs are different enough from Qingyi with ice-jade teapot that I think it warrants a separate calculation rather than just subtracting 2% (18% from caesar's vs 20% from qingyi's engine) from the damage numbers of the individual teams.
I know Spring Embrace was mentioned in the utility part, but how would Seth's engine compare? Have an extra one at R5 so hoping that can work for now :)
Thanks for this. I'm more on the fence because do I pull her now or wait a year for her rerun and "suffer"? It's a Kazuha/Zhongli or Ruan Mei/Robin scenario, honestly.
I find that faster stun isn’t always better anyway unless you can 1 cycle the enemy, so i’m just going to use whatever. The engine is tempting, but i think going for an attacker engine would be better overall.
I LOVE YOU FROG
I was just thinking about this 10 mins ago LOL
if i win my 50/50, i'll throw a few pulls for her W engine. if i don't get it, i'll just stick with transmorpher. need to have some pulls for Burnice.
If i win the Ceaser 50/50 I might roll for her engine....but I'll probably end up using the transmorpher 😅
I didn't understand the graphics... how is the percentage of better?
3000+ shield seems plenty enough for me. It's a dodge heavy game so I just need the shield to tank like 1-2 hits and I'm good.
m1 with a 5 star stun engine sounds better imo. also 1.2 is less than a week away where’s the 1.3 drip?
Wait, we can use the W engine of a different class? So, it's like Star rail where the passive won't work if u equip a different class lightcone...
yeah the effect doesn't work but the status does
Caesars sig will be the first one I pick up..unless I lose the 25/75 at which point I'll just uninstall 😅
It doesn't feel worth it to me. I am going to wait and test out how big her shield is without her W engine, if it's big enough, I will only pull her without engine. If it's not enough, I will probably not pull for her at all. Same thing with stun times. If it takes her too long to stun compared to other defense agents, no pull. But I am optimistic she is going to be busted either way. 1000 attack and a 25 percent damage taken buff are pretty strong on their own, that's not even taking into account the anti-interrupt.
I'm getting it for the hair glow lol
She can equip W-Engine of any classes?
Everyone can, they just don't get the passive bonus
you can equip any engine on any character, the main stat and secondary stat are always active. the special effect only applies if the character is the same type as the engine.
any valk can equip any weapon from any specialty, but if it doesn't match their specialty, then the effect doesn't work
tldr: If you get Caesar then get her sig weapon, as per usual with any limited S-rank character. It's also really good on Ben and Seth as they both shield and provide different buffs to go along with that daze/ATK% on the w-engine. Pretty much a universally great w-engine for any defender now or in the future.
Worth it? Yes
Do I have the polys ou money to get it? Now that's the real issue
Caesar Sig weapon is universal for any future Defenders thats alone is good, and talking about the character, i think the game become more aggresive (enemies that never stop attacks in multi sussecion of big attacks), and defender shields are a future meta to finish the job (not to mention the anti interupt thats is even more important for combos of any dps)
Hoyo really went dirty with weapons in this game, compared to Genshin and HSR. All f2p weapons don't even have needed sub stat for new characters. It was like this with cat boy and now same with Caesar. I guess we just have to start using wrong type wengines and forget about passives....
It's at least only a problem with the defense class. The other ones are mostly fine