Should You Run a Catalytic Converter on Your Hot Rod?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- I love my hot rods, but I also love to live and breathe. Therefore I have this internal debate about running emissions systems on the vehicles I build. So far I’ve chosen not to, but I keep asking myself, should I?
I’m curious as to what you think on this topic. Share your opinions in the comments.
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I've always been of the opinion that if it came with one, you should leave one on. Now, you could put on a newer, high-flow catalytic converter that is more efficient... And it might make a good video to boot.
This!
The beehive cat that he pulled off that truck flowed like mud and in my experience got very inefficient as they aged. Replacing it with a new cat would be a huge improvement, and still provide the emmissions benefits. Or you could just remove. Both would be much better for your vehicle.
As most of us here probably know, a cc requires a constantly alternating rich lean condition to work. Here in the communist country of Kalifornia you are not allowed to run a cat on an engine that didn't use one to begin with for good reason as stated above. In your case year model and going back to about 1974 you cannot modify the system with non carb certified parts, add or delete anything. You can change the ENTIRE system to that of another newer vehicle (some restrictions apply) then it has to meet those standards. IIWY I would run a high flow cat IF you can verify it's functional needs are met with your change of injection. Personally I hate to get behind a catless system. Some like the smell of all that raw unburned fuel. Not me.
@@springfield03sniper would a new one even be available? Probably extremely expensive when a bigger better flowing one could be welded in.
@@DENicholsAutoBravado you can buy a new cat converter at any autoparts store. They are much smaller than these because of the through and through design, whereas this is old one is filled with a catalyst
There are a few high performance aftermarket catalytic converters available, it would make for an interesting video
This was the subject of an OG Wheeler Dealers episode, I believe the AC Cobra
That there are... even still 1-200 CPI catalytic converters do not add much restriction at all.
Agreed. There are a number of options for low restriction cats available. It's a philosophical argument. Run without, you are essentially guilty of not caring about today or tomorrow. Since there is an option available, and there are, then are you morally obligated to take the high road. The choice is yours..........
The fact is that you should always run an Eric the car guy in series with your Scotty Kilmer.
I had a "fun" car that was seldom driven that had no cat. I ended up putting a high flow cat because the smell of raw exhaust was making me sick. So, I say try a high flow cat.
I saw a 76 GMC 2500 for sale a while back. Nothing fancy but a one owner. He had recently put a new dual exhaust system on it and used a custom muffler shop that I have used several times in the recent past. Very good work in this shop. There were two small catalytic converters in each 2 1/2" pipe not too far from the headers (manifolds had been upgraded). It had the original small block 350 and an aftermarket Edelbrock intake and 4 barrel carb. The idea of the cats were to simply clean the exhaust from an older engine that may be running a little rich due to living at 5500 feet above sea level. I thought that was a great idea as I don't like following some older, bad running cars and smelling the fumes. I will do that on my next project car/truck.
I do it for the exhaust smell number 1 and emission reduction second.
LoL 😂
It reminds me of BBQS 🤫
Much like immunizing your kids, or recycling, say, I see this as a measure of your sense of civic responsibility. I'd get a high-flow converter, personally, given that I believe in doing right by the rest of the world, not just me, and I find the evidence compelling that cats mediate a very real problem.
Even though a few container ships expel more crap than all the cars combined, I do also think it's a general responsibility. Gotta start somewhere. What I do despise is that car people are getting taxed left and right while industry is nowhere to be found when it comes to "responsibilities".
Free Bird. I understood that reference!
I was thinking of removing my cat from my 94 Accord, it's just reached 25 years old so I can. Decided against it. Going to keep it as stock as possible I guess.
I used to be a smog tech in california so I'm pretty well versed in the subject of cats. Heres the scoop. A modern cat requires the fuel system to osillate between rich and lean in order for the cat to fully function. Tbi, carbs, and early FI systems do a really bad job of doing this. What it really comes down to is the tune. If you can tune your engine to run close to 14.7 during your regular comute, having a cat will do very little to help. Manufactures tend to run their cars on the rich side: 1 to prevent detonation and 2 because you can pull more power out of the engine by adding timing etc. My mustang has a "modern" FI system and requires 4 cats, 2 on each side. TLDR; On NA engines, a cat causes very little restriction and wont affect performance but your trucks original FI wasnt that good anyway, so as long as you don't run pig rich, who cares.
Keep your classic, Historic, Vintage car, Hot Rod, or Toy, Running cleaner than minimum compliance rules ask for. High Flow cats are cheep solid and easy to install. DO IT for your grand kids.
the kids complain when I cat them... but I did EFI and Catalytic a '78 and am worried about the tune.
I had the exact same cat in my 1990 K2500. I took it off a couple years ago. The truck would not do a burnout even brake torquing it. I cut the exhaust off and straight piped it and it immediately got a lot better. It ran 11 second 0-60s. I'm running Holley Sniper self learning TBI now. I'm open to putting a high flow cat on it. I'm running a single 3" open exhaust right now. Headers to y pipe to open 3".
I got a pair of high flow cats but no muffler lol
I like your style. Lol
Thats what Im gonna do
Thats what I usually suggest, it usually sounds really good on vehicles with a V8! I ran my V8 WJ that way and it sounded amazing!
There's no such thing as a high flow cat..
@@CHEVYK10 that's not technically true, if a pipe is physically larger, it will allow more air to flow regardless of the restriction.
I have '93 Buick which is now exempt from emissions. I decided to go with a modern direct fit high flow replacement. It was just easier for me in the long run. No modding and fit issues to worry about in my particular case.
Excempt doesnt meab anything. If it came with a cat its highely illegal to remove it and you can get a 10k fine or jail time
I was thinking on putting on Catalytic Converters on my 66 Chevy C20 I heard it takes away power but you gain fresh air. I want to do my part I am thinking of putting on Magnaflow hi output converters truck is carbureted so it's not clean. What you guys think?
I've been working with a crate engine now for 3 years or so. Right off the bat my emissions are greater due to displacement. I have been using either the Sniper or the FiTech throttle body injection systems that run off a single oxygen sensor. I also like placing the oxygen sensor after the exhaust merge because that way I am controlling off all the cylinders. As I continue work on this project I have customized the exhaust, but also added a Magnaflow cat. My wife always complains about the fumes when idling either in the driveway or the garage, even when set for a 14.4 AFR. Both the FiTech and the Sniper are set up from the factory very rich. While you can lean them down, they run best a bit on the rich side, so I added the cat to combust the extra fuel.
I have also added a PCV system with the M.E. Wagner adjustable valve. This baby gives extreme adjustability and allows me to reduce and or eliminate crankcase pressure. The engine came with breathers, and I would sometimes see a puff of fumes come out into the engine compartment. I tried a few different PCV valves, but nothing was quite right, so I bought the Wagner.
Good purchase. In conjunction with the Wagner I have a Moroso oil separator inline. Ended up with a low flow adjustment through the Wagner, although they say if you are going to race a higher flow works better. I pull clean air in through one of the original breathers, and I figure that gives me an emergency pressure relief if every needed. Cleaner oil to boot.
Now you mention red eyes and the inability to breath due to air pollution. I experienced both of these to the extreme growing up in Los Angeles before emissions control got started. I can tell you that you do not want your children to experience air pollution like that! So if you are hot rodding around town I think that you really need to work toward zero emissions as the goal. The seat of my pants can barely tell the difference..
According to VA DMV, a classic is 20 years old... at 25 they're an antique. Next year, 4/5 of my cars will be antique because I'm the IT guy that hates technology.
The Lynnard Skynnerlude...
Hiiii jaafro the dsm god 🤘🤓🤘
Removing or disabling emissions components is a federal crime and is illegal in all 50 states, even if you don't have to get your vehicle tested. Now if you don't need to get your vehicle tested, it's almost impossible to actually get caught and get in trouble over it. I'm just saying it IS technically illegal. I'd like to see a modern cat installed on the truck. The pellet ones are restrictive, but the honeycomb style takes away a negligible amount of power IMO.
That makes sense. I've heard that "modern" cats were barely restrictive at all, and thus not worth removing, but wasn't sure what qualified as "modern". Does it all come down to pellet-style vs honeycomb-style? And if so, is there an easy way to tell at-a-glance which is which without removing them?
we had e-test in ontario canada but our goverment ended the e-test as of april 1st....and i am very happy they ended it........when it was here you had to pass an e-test befour you could get your plate sticker......im not sure i would put one back on my 2007 dodge charger...like your videos keep up the great work..
It really depends on the car. For anybody who read the title though, when I think hotrods I usually think 25 year +. I went through the trouble of running an expensive ($300+) hi flow race catalytic converter on my 1991 Civic Si and guess what, now it's blocked and I'm out $300. I'm of the opinion that older cars are exempt at 25 years old for a reason, and that's because the government has decided that as long as you can keep it on the road and out of a scrapyard the slight trade-off in higher amounts of hydrocarbons coming out of the exhaust is worth it compared to junking a perfectly good (in my case almost mint condition) car.
Something a lot of people in these comments don't seem to realize is that you can't just throw a cat on any car and call it good. The engine needs to operate within a very specific A/F ratio so that the cat doesn't get destroyed. If I had put a cat on my Ford, it would have been destroyed within the first week because of how rich it ran.
Thanks for your comment.
I'm running pacesetter long tubes with 3 inch collectors, 3 inch off-road Y pipe, and 3 inch single exit diamond eye exhaust on my 2006 f150, there's no cats. I love the difference in sound and power. Do it, you'll love it
Totally agree with you on the world not being black and white, Eric. As far as the catalytic converters go, I think it's a complete must for a daily driver. I know for a fact that exhaust on a Second Gen MDX (or any other gen, for that matter) stinks like hell and therefore cannot be any good for anyone. That being said, I still remember the time when cars did not have any catalytic converters whatsoever (yeah, back to USSR and cars that were made there), and we were just fine (although, of course, the amount of cars was just a fraction of what's on the roads these days). But I think that for a show (or similar) car it's fine not to have one, if laws permit, of course.
We had emissions testing here (Louisville, KY) for a number of years, but no longer. Back when we still had to test our cars every year I had a 1982 Corvette with catalytic converter. In stock condition it would pass the test each year. Then, in an effort to create some more HP, among other things I removed the converter, installed a straight pipe, blocked the EGR valve and a few other mods this shade tree mechanic could do including adding a racing chip to the computer. The first emissions test after all these changes I was sweating it a bit, but believe it or not, the car still passed, albeit the level of emissions had increased. I was relieved, but also mad because I was convinced, as were many other Louisville residents, that the test was a ripoff. Turns out it was. One person got the bid to perform the testing every year and he made millions of dollars while there wasn't much improvement in air quality. Well, he got caught, and about that same time emissions testing was eliminated. Makes you wonder how many politicians got wealthy too, doesn't it. OK, my main point...back then requiring cars to have catalytic converters was, in my opinion, a sham. Today, 35+ years later and with the current fuel and emissions mandates, it's probably best, if you have a converter on your vehicle, to leave it there.
It depends upon the application and your local and state emissions laws. On an older car that has a carburetor such as the fairmont, No Cats, but on a late model hot rod that has fuel injection, I would be more inclined to keep them! Some of the late model platforms have enough aftermarket surrounding them that you can make good power and still be emissions compliant! Here in CA I wouldn't risk not running cats on car that requires them. Whether or not you will gain a significant amount of HP by removing them, is a good question for a tuner who specializes in your specific application...
Modern high flow cats dont effect performance enough to gripe over the need to install them if legally required. However if you live in a C.A.R.B state, requiring OEM certified exhaust parts... Buy something too old for their laws to effect, or move! I'm all for saving the environment and feel you absolutely should have full emissions equipment on your daily driver, but exemptions should be given for classics, hot rods, race cars, show cars ect that don't get driven enough to make a significant impact on the environment.
My state requires OBD2 emissions testing every 2 years. No safety or actual "sniffer" test. They just plug it in, check for system readiness and send you on your way. Great system in my opinion because its fast, effective and gives plenty of options for car enthusiasts to modify as long it still passes obd2 requirements. Anything prior to 96 is exempt and free to hot rod all you want.
Eric, I started to write what would mostly likely be a few page paper on this topic but decide it probably a little to in depth for a comment on a TH-cam video. So I will leave it at: Thanks for the thought provoking topic. -Alex
I removed the cats from my BMW because there's no emissions where I lived.
I would get really sick driving it. It became literally undrivable. I put the cats back and am very happy.
Also, I noticed no horsepower gain, just a little better exhaust tone. Not worth it at all.
I have 95 Corolla Wagon which is my daily and only car. I chopped off the stock cat a couple years ago and welded in a pipe instead. It gained some top end power back because after 290k miles (at that time) that cat was starting to clog up. But being my daily I struggled to enjoy the fresh air when sitting in summer traffic with the windows down. Also if the wind was blowing the exhaust towards the front of the car, I couldn't have the AC on either because all the fumes got inside the car. Other than that though it ran fine and sounded pretty cool to be honest! A lot more... raw. So after about a year and a half I welded on an Ebay high flow cat. Doesn't do too much but it helps especially at idle. I don't plan on getting anything better (emissions wise) than a high flow cat since I don't need to pass emissions. Yes, technically I should have one since the car came with one, but I'm not putting an expensive cat back on it.
I mean it’s a toss up. If you think there’s ever a possibility that the vehicle will ever be registered in another state at any point in time where not having a catalytic converter might be an issue then you might wanna consider utilizing one. But I hear what you’re saying about it having better performance as a hot rod. I personally would put one on just to avoid any potential issues that could come up in the future as a result of not having one installed. But that’s just me
When Eric mentioned "motor law", Red Barchetta was playing on the radio. Spooky.
Brandon Adkins when I red your comment I thought of the song I just got my red barchetta dream car 58 mga
I always appreciate your views thank you Eric from South Africa
Awesome saving the bird. What a great guy ericthecarguy is :) saving birds and people money :)
I have a 1982 chevy C20 that has the heavy duty 350 in it. I didnt realize that the heavy duty referred to the emission system not the power output til I started removing the air pump system and everything and did some research. People will complain because of emissions being gone but the truck runs much better now than it did before. Hopefully they don't start having vehicles of that age start being held to modern emissions standards or alot of people will be out of transportation.
I have no issue at all with folks not running catalytic converters on classic/pleasure GASOLINE vehicles. I don't run one on my 1987 Suzuki Samurai...but it's also exempt from emissions testing where i live nor do i drive it often. I do however have a real issue with all of the emissions equipment that has been recently mandated on diesels over the past 15 years...they've absolutely killed their reliability, efficiently, and longevity.
Good Eric, only a Sith deals in absolutes
larry altamirano agreed.......Scotty Kilmer >_>
@@joshuaspooner5086 Shouty is a Sith?!
What's a Sith?
But that statement is an absolute.........nice try sith lord
@@Seegalgalguntijak its a l'il more than a fi'th and a l'il less than a se'nth.....
As always. Startig an open discussion and string of great comments. ETCG1!!!
Should you? If the government is asking, yes. If a fellow car guy asks, hell no.
Yea, screw those old people wanting to continue living. That's what they get for having weakened immune systems.
@@DeepPastry how tf is going catless going to kill people?
@@stew-03 The oxides of nitrogen are toxic, deadly even, so is carbon monoxide and left over fuel. Those things kill people you numpty. If only we could use some sort of catalyst to convert those byproducts of combustion into less deadly forms., we could save tens of thousands of people every year. We could call it something like a catalytic converter since it is converting chemicals with a catalyzer.
Well, you are the generation fine with sending sick people who'll recover into old folks homes filled with those who won't...
@@DeepPastry hey man i dont run catless. That would sound like ass on my truck and i dont like the smell
I live in Minnesota, and we don't have emissions testing here. However, from what I understand, if you live in a state that has emissions testing and your vehicle was manufactured in or after 1975, you can get an emissions exemption if you register your vehicle as a show car and you don't drive it more than 2500 miles per year. I could be wrong so feel free to correct me if I am, but that's how I understand it.
I prefer to run a catalyst when I can, even in hotrod/power applications. Modern cat designs have minimal impact on exhaust flow, and help "ghost" the vehicle just that little bit more. I've always been a fan of true sleepers, though. ;)
That being said, I have no hate for those that don't run a cat! I totally understand the reasoning behind it.
I agree, cat technology have come long ways too. I have/had vehicle with and without and really like that i don't stink after a few mins in the car. I have a 88 rx7 with the rotary and that's my just can not run a catalyst period. It will burn them within few hours but all my other cars i had and have i definitely ran a cat on them because they where my daily and just don't want to stink going into places
Just wanted to say, beards looking bad ass Brother. Looking Good! On the note of catalytic converters, I've ran lots of older vehicles with them hollowed out. We are an inspection state which means all the components have to be there, but they could truly care less if the are working or not. My vehicles always ran better without them, but the smell will burn your eyeballs out at an intersection or drive through. I would have used high flow aftermarket cats but cost is always a deciding factor for me. I have nothing against them not being there.
Pretty sure Federal law requires them even if State law does not.
MrFloppypancakes those state laws can suck my fucking dick
Everything is against federal law lol
Living in California, the state emissions laws are even more rigorous than the federal level. The state has permission from Washington D.C. to mandate its own air quality laws but the current administration has threatened rescinding the permission. Nevertheless, several other states have adopted California's auto emissions regulations; I believe it is up to 14 as of this writing.
I would install a catalytic converter (or two). The current state-of-the-art in cat. converters restricts exhaust flow very little to virtually none.
I can throw a bit of input in from both sides here, I’ve actually got a ‘93 gmc 1500, only has a 4.3 and 700R4, but the thing has 400,000 miles on the original power train. Engine has new bearings in it because it had so many miles we thought it would be smart to do that, had no issues tho and the old bearings actually looked great. But other than that, that engine has never been opened up. It’s had that same huge cat on it for its whole life and runs like a top. 70mph down the highway all day long no questions asked. It’s obviously not a hot rod of any sort, but for a v6 with tbi it moves pretty well. So in the case of a vehicle like that, it’s stock as far as power goes, but also that cat has never clogged or caused me any issues whatsoever. (It’s now my backup truck since I just bought a new one and is going to turn into a project. Nothing wrong with it, just go another truck to add to the fleet and I drive it now). On the other hand, I just purchased a truck I’ve wanted for a good while because my father used to have one when I was a child, a “2nd gen” Cummins. 2001 Dodge Ram with a 5.9L Cummins engine. That truck has no cat on it, no muffler either actually. And before anyone says anything no I don’t roll coal or any of that, actually that truck barley even lets out a hint of smoke when it’s loaded and pulling in a high gear. But the reason why I was ok with buying it like that is a few reasons, diesels are dirtier because of the soot from the engine (which depending on which scientific study you look into may or may not be actually less harmful than standard gasoline emissions). That soot is bound to clog up that cat at some point, plus, I want this engine to run as healthily as possible. And if you look at it from a outside perspective, a Diesel engine is basically a big air pump. Takes air in and lets air out. The more air in and out, the more efficiently it runs. So having a free flowing exhaust in that case I think is the correct thing to do to keep the engine running efficiently (yes it did increase fuel economy, on a stock 01 I’ve borrowed several times I get 17mpg, I get 20 in mine). Another reason why is something everyone who tows with a diesel is familiar with, EGT’s (exhaust gas temperatures) on a Diesel engine that is the deciding factor between making your engine into a boat anchor or having it run well. A free flowing exhaust allows for lower egts which is in my opinion one of the number 1 things everyone who tows with a Diesel engine should be conceded about. I’ve seen the aftermath of high egt’s and it’s never pretty, burnt and melted exhaust valves, even damage inside the cylinders. So in some applications, I think you should lose the cat. But if it’s gonna be mostly or all stock and runs on gasoline, keep it on. A cleaner planet can’t be a bad thing, and even tho it’s hilarious to hear the the guy with a straight piped Cummins cares about that, I do. Just also believe it depends a lot on what exactly the vehicle in question is. On your Chevy, I agree. Take it off. When it comes to making a performance vehicle, lose the cat.
Random question. I cleaned my throttle body and noticed a ton of carbon on the plate and also through my intake manifold. What causes carbon to build up in there. Is it because of EGR. And also does throttle body injection help keep a intake manifold clean as opposed to mine with port injection. Thanks eric if u read this.
Definitely add them. If you did a survey of the people in your town that the exhaust impacts they'd say to add them and it's their lungs impacted worst.
I agree with the others who have written that installing a less-restrictive high-flow cat would be good. You would get the best of both worlds for the increased cost of the high-flow cat. The other disadvantage, increased weight, could be partially offset at least by shaving off weight elsewhere.
what computer will you be using to run the truck after the "upgrades?" I'm assuming the stock one won't be able to handle the changes.
I have an 84' Chev C20 350 that is my daily driver, the truck came factory with single exhaust and a pellet cat like the one you show in the video, but sometime before I bought it installed a modern 3 way honeycomb type cat on it. So recently I installed a dual exhaust kit on it, and I had to wait a week longer for the cats I wanted to install to arrive. Gee the exhaust was stinky without cats. No matter how much I tweaked the mixture or the timing it just smelled awful to me in traffic. 1 week later the cats came in, and I installed 2 new 3 way honeycomb cats and the stinky exhaust is gone. Also FYI there is a compound in exhaust called NOx that's actually a family of gases one part of it has a sharp smell to it, but does not smell gassy like unburned hydrocarbons or HC smells like, and the other part of NOx is odorless. That's the dangerous stuff. Not only does it contribute to air pollution, but it's also very good at destroying lung tissue. Ask a mechanic that was never a smoker that has COPD or adult on set asthma, he'll know what NOx is, because that's the cause of his lung damage. It may not hurt you enough driving your classic or hot rod occasionally, but it will set of an attack for someone that has COPD or asthma and gets stuck in traffic near enough to you to get a couple good lung fulls of NOx. It's bad stuff and a lot of folks don't even know what it is and now you do.
for my home country(Estonia) its simple. if your car did not come with one from the factory you dont need to run it and if it did you have to have it on the car. The first time i saw a catalyst converter on a car was when my parents bought a 95 ford contur/mondeo and as well our relatives lincoln town car. Before we had an 1988 ford sierra and that had no emmissons control.
I recently had to replace the exhaust manifold on my 2010 Colorado. For those who don't know, on that particular truck, the catalyst is part of the exhaust manifold. I had a choice. I could buy the OEM part, for about $600, which had the catalyst. Or I could wait six to eight weeks to get a header that didn't have the catalyst, only cost about $200, and live with a constant check engine light. I found a compromise, Pacesetter makes a header for the truck that has a high-flow catalyst built into it. And it was about half the price of the OEM part, so that's what I put on it.
Unlike Mr. Eric, I drive the aforementioned little truck quite often, and even though I live in a state with about 3 million people, I'd rather not be part of the problem. Also, as someone who spends a lot of time in the spring/summer/fall on a motorcycle, it's much less unpleasant to be stuck behind a modern car with functioning emissions controls, than to be stuck behind some hotrod that's belching unseen, but not un-felt or un-smelled, fumes.
I do fear for the environment... but at the same time I'm a car guy (and also I have a non daily driven car with no catalysts)... my personal use case puts me at around 95% driving my daily driven car and 5% my car with no catalysts, and assuming that this is the way people will be using the cars I think we should be thankful that the government is giving a pass on this one. Cheers ETCG been a long time viewer and I'm still here, so keep up the good work
I have stainless aftermarket headers on my 01 z28 with no cats. (I bought it like that). I found out when I took it to the inspection station and they said “hey you don’t have cats on it”. So I welded up an exhaust pipe with cats and made it removable. So when I have to go to get it inspected I put the cats on and then after take it off.
My BMW's only cats were integrated into the exhaust manifolds, which I replaced with high performance headers. My state doesn't require emissions testing. Even if they did, I have a tune and the emissions monitors are all set.
From what I've heard not even California, the most strict of emissions states, does any actual tailpipe emissions testing. They merely plug a scan tool in to check if the emissions monitors are set, if they are you pass the test.
I live in Texas and we have emissions testing. If your vehicle is 25 years old then you are exempt from emissions testing, and only required to have a safety test. I modified the engine in my 94 Surburban, and when I went to the exhaust shop, he yanked the converter when he made the exhaust. I understand what you're saying about the environment, but there are a lot of other engines ruining the air too.
Here I my thoughts on this. A hot rod is generally a car guys baby, and that being said. They will be made to run as good as possible, there by reducing pollution. And as you said NOT driven,in many cases daily for the vast vast majority. I have a 54 Ford running a 66’ corvette 327. I feel quite sure it emits less pollution than the original engine, under normal driving conditions. May I also add that it gets 18mpg with the AC on and cruising at 70 turning about 2200 to 2300 rpm.
I don't have cats on my "hot rod". Mainly because of space, it's a daily driven 98 s10 with an ls swap. It also helps that Florida doesn't have emissions testing, so that's convenient.
Not only are they restrictive, but they take up space and add weight. Space I have little of. These newer ls motors are a lot more efficient than the good old school carb too.
I found removing them will reduce performance. When I took one off my mustang, I felt a significant loss of torque. I think a tune would be required after removing it.
I live in Alabama also a no emissions state. That said my 99 has 1 cat that is failing I also have been debating this question for I could replace just the one to get the light to go off or replace both because the other I am sure is up next. Second option is to punch them out and get the downstream sensor deleted from the ecu. FYI even if a state has no emission vehicles fall under federal emissions laws and can be enforced by local law enforcement IE DPMF deletes if caught here in Alabama can be ticketed and charged a fine and I believe this applies to catalytic converter removal. At this stage I am leaning toward a high flow replacement system just to be safe.
Last summer I was on the ferry from Prince Edward Island to Nova Scotia and there was a 60s Pontiac boarded on the vechile deck that you could really smell unburned fuel coming from the exhaust. My point being if you plan on taking a vehicle in enclosed spaces you may not want to remove all emission systems.
My secondary daily driver is my 87 S10, and I ended up removing the cat on it because it was rusted out, but I have put less than 1,500 miles on it since early 2018 when I removed it. Now my 2018 Silverado, I've put 11K miles on it since September. If I was putting more miles on it, I'd consider a nice Magnaflow high flow cat, but again, it isn't my primary daily.
Modern catalysts are not restrictive and are fairly inexpensive, especially for someone who can weld it in themselves. I think people that “delete” them are just trying to save a buck or are misinformed.
In Texas the catalytic converters are considered part of the exhaust system and are required to be present in order to pass safety inspection. Oddly it doesn’t mention functional, just present. The rest of the emissions system can be removed once the car is over 25 years old based on year of production. I have an 89 Mustang with the full emissions system removed and high flow Flowmaster cats on it. As an aside the Texas inspection law also requires functional windshield wipers but nowhere does it require a windshield. Yay government!
Back in the 80's(lived in Lubbock) my buddies would gut cats & put a pipe in... Make it 'look stock-ish'
Now I'm in eastern WA, no inspections or emissions, but other laws are crap....
I've actually added cats to a few cars that didn't have them when I did rebuilds. Modern cats don't have the restriction of older ones and are pretty affordable. Plus, they have the added effect of helping quiet the exhaust. I didn't put cats on the most recent car because there literally wasn't any room for them and it was built about 50 years before cats were a thing.
I was following a caravan of classic cars cruising about 40 or more in a 2 lane country road. Enclosed with trees on both side like a tunnel. A few min later I was getting sick from their exhaust. I could not eat. I was dizzy not a pleasant day for me. Granted there were some beautiful cars.
Reach out to cody's lab, and see what he can recover from the cat!
Oh hell yeah!!!
Excellent idea
reactor grade plutonium
Only good things of tight emission laws is that oil lasts longer because it isn’t so saturated by gas over its lifetime in the motor and spark plugs last longer. Engines kinda got easier to deal with since there’s less moving parts to wear out and replace. In my area there’s no emissions testing unless it’s a commercial truck. Muffler shops cut cats off all the time and give you a nice deal off the bill for it. But the down side tonlosing your cat in anything newer than mid 90’s it kills the gas mileage. Did it to my 06 impala gas mileage went from 23 to 18. Sounds cool though.
I would still do it, when I get the funds to work on my mustang I will put cats on it, just seems responsible, there are good aftermarket free-flowing cats out there. I might even suggest a video of you doing the truck with cats then installing them to show the difference in exhaust smell and even drone.
When I overhauled my Toyota 22RE engine, I checked the stock cat converter and it was 90% clogged. Just replace it with a test pipe or installing a new cat converter. I went with a 3rd party (Magna Flow) cat converter just so my son and his kids can breathe clean air.
+1 on the facial bird's nest. It has grown much more epic since the days in your home garage. I sense that it hasn't yet reached its Final Form.
Someone should develop a catalytic converter for Volcanoes. Nothing pollutes more than volcanoes.
YES!!!! I'm getting an Element !!!!! How are you shipping it over here dad?
My understanding of a catalytic converter is that it cleans toxic gasses from emissions. I think with the Fairmont, because a major goal was performance, running without the catalytic converter furthers your goal, and it sounds like you aren't in that car everyday. Maybe with the truck, since it is not a pure performance vehicle, and because it will get more regular duty, if the catalytic converter doesn't rob too much power, why not re-install it? A GREAT video would be to compare both emissions and power with and without the converter on the truck, and maybe compare the smell and sound as well.
I remember a time in early 80's that cars had cats and a truck with same engine didn't, right from factory.
My Buddy's Ford F150 1978 Trucks didn't have one, My 79 Did....
I've got three " historic vehicles " that don't need emissions testing. The 86 Mustang has high dollar Magnaflow cats I welded in with a 5.0 5 Spd Carb, but the 70 Mustang 351C Carb and the 70 Ranchero 351C EFI conversion do not. These vehicles are not allowed for daily use... so, who knows. I feel better with the 86, and have fun with all three.
I did a pair of vibrant 3" high flows on mine to keep the stink down (and hence the WAF up). Minimal losses... something to consider.
I would still install high-flow cats. It's the right thing to do.
I am not a fan of emissions. That being said, if it's daily driven, I think it should have at the very least a catalytic converter. I don't want to be smelling nasty exhaust while I'm sitting in traffic. If it has classic plates or is a project or racecar, just leave it off. Especially with the technology we have now, they're not as restrictive anymore, they're lightweight, and considerably cheap.
I would put a high flow racing converter on it mainly because I don’t want to breathe the exhaust fumes, and smell like exhaust fumes. It might be a good test (and video) to dyno the truck with and without a converter on it just to see the difference. It may not be a significant as you think.
Do you think that putting the old clogged converter in an oven at 600 degrees Celsius is going to burn the carbon deposits and refresh it back????
You hit the nail on the head and drove it all the way home...
" even today's auto manufacturers are having troubles keeping up with the emissions mandates"
I’d like to know when a catalytic converter pays off. In other words, how long it takes to save on pollution VS how much pollution is generated to create the catalytic converter.
Good point.
I’m happy you explained both side of the issue and me personally I wouldn’t care if I had a cat. or not. I wouldn’t put one on my car either if I didn’t have to. I think you should do what makes YOU happy and if that is to leave it off, then do it boss man!
Considering my check engine light came on, in my dakota 4.7 which has been performance oriented. I just want to yank em on out and be happy about it because i don't want to replace them. In all seriousness, it depends on the vehicle. since I daily mine, I'm going to try to go to one high flow, instead of the 2 mini cats. But something thats a strip/street vehicle for the weekends, ehh. I guess you dont need them. Use your best judgement.
In the UK, all petrol cars from 1993 onwards are required to have a cat (there are a few exceptions for run-out vehicles). There are some vehicles made just before then that do have cats fitted, but would be legal to remove them, for example, early second generation MR2s, where removing the converter will net you a not inconsiderable power and fuel efficiency gain, so I probably would on one of those cars. When I was younger I always viewed cats as an annoyance on vehicles that should be removed wherever possible, but now that even a normal aftermarket replacement cat for a 90s vehicle flows way way better than the stock item, there's just no point in dealing with the hassle of not having one.
High performance cats are a must where I live, the E-Rod kit from GM is helpful. I have seen tuned motors though burn so clean they do not need any emissions equipment, but we are limited where I live we have to have a cat if the car is to be used more than a few thousand miles a year.
Here's a future idea: Dyno test without a cat, then fit a (modern) cat and test again, see what the difference is. I bet with modern cats, especially high flow, the difference is very small.
In Utah, any vehicle 1968 or newer must have all of its original emissions equipment intact, and pass an emissions test. You seem to be torn on this issue. O'Reilly sells a MagnaFlow converter that is light weight and not restrictive at all. Got one put on my 94 Astro (TBI) and drove from the muffler shop right to get the emissions test done, and it passed with flying colors. Maybe something like that would be a good compromise.
Pair of high flows will do you well. I actually prefer the exhaust note as well.
I understand both sides if the issue and why they are on vehicles, but I also know how expensive those things are to replace. That being said, given the age of the vehicles (especially the Ford), and your driving plans, your opinion sounds to be perfectly logical. Though with the truck you might want to make a provision to add one "Just in case".
the determining factors for me are:
how many miles will you be driving it?
how often will you be driving in a town or city?
I do know that in our neck of the woods the mechanics are legally allowed to gut out the converter for those of us rarely driving into the city.They leave the outer shell on foe the sake of the oxygen sensor.Big rainforest here with lots of trees contributing to good air quality. British Columbia Canada.
I'm gonna go with lets not worry about it. pretty common practice with old junkers I had was to hollow them out when they plugged... far too expensive to fix for the short life left in some of those cars ;)
I live in California. If a vehicle is 1990ish or newer, then I only upgrade with California compliant parts. If it's older, then usually smog compliant parts are hard or impossible to find so I remove emissions parts as they break. I do always keep cats though because I hate the smell of an engine with no cats.
5:49 Was that a Rush reference? If you got 2 classic rock references into this video, you get bonus points.
Yes it was.
@@ETCG1 Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here but I never had thought so much about the lyrics of that song until you made that reference. Kind of like "The Sound of Silence" predicted technology addiction? At least that's how it sounds to me now.
I'd say there are still so many engines that don't use any emissions components like motorcycles, snowmobiles ATVs lawn mowers , chainsaws, generators and the list goes on. especially the two strokes that are still around like outboard boat motors those are huge polluters and their omnipresent around the great lakes. one thing I will say is I absolutely hate getting behind a classic car with no converters when I can literally taste the exhaust coming through my vents really gives me a headache.
You absolutely should!
I guess I don't care what other people do as far as running them or not. Pretty much for the reasons you state, limited use of those vehicles and all that. I live in a state that doesn't check emissions and I've not run cats for many years now on my project car. However, I've grown tired of the ever-present hydrocarbon smell it has, and how loud it is. I will be adding cats back onto it this year. It will solve those problems I have with the car, and the benefit to the environment gives me a warm fuzzy, haha.
Everything gets straight piped in states with no emissions checks
Yes, the worst part about removing the cats will be the smell. As least, since the truck and the Fairmont are both fuel injected, you could install cats on them if you were ever forced to do so.
I love my old cars but the worst thing about driving them on a nice warm day is coming away smelling of exhaust fumes (no matter how hard I try to seal them up, I always smell at least alittle like exhaust if the window is down). Not as much a problem with old VWs, Corvairs, etc. with rear engines where the fumes trail behind the car. If someone would invent a reasonably priced cat for carbureted cars that was “plug and play”, with no other mods, I would be happy to give away 5 mpg to lose the odor! I don’t remember the smell being as bad when gas still had lead in it, but that could just be a memory and perception issue? Maybe even the new car back then just stunk too, so no one notice?
How do you feel about running two rather than one or not at all??
I have a VW Transporter T4 2.5tdi and wnat to make it less of a polluter over a powerful machine.
Over the past 20 years, I've owned a Dozen (yes...12!) GMT400 (1988-1998) based full size trucks in varying engine and drive train configurations. Every time I took possession of one, the Cats came off. MPG went up and power was improved. I had most of them checked for emissions and they all passed AFTER removal of the CC. I'm in a no inspection state, but I was curious. I've never had an O2 Sensor problem after the fact either. Cheers! Zip~
I'm in NY..... Yeah right.
Still running O2 sensors? How does that work? Light on the dash?