I recently began to understand why Catholics are opposed to all birth control. Although they may not always state this outright, birth control promotes and enables sex outside of wedlock. It has been probably the most important factor promoting the sexual revolution and the degradation of morality surrounding the issue. That alone should give us pause about thinking through it’s legality.
All chemical bc and iud on the market currently claim to be abortive on their package inserts. The only bc that isn't abortive is the fertility awareness method, condoms, natural family planning and the like.
I think what pastor Wilson means is that in a marriage between a man and a woman, preventive birth control is ok, while repressive birth control is always wrong (because it involves killing a child). Nonetheless, preventive birth control is to be used carefully and thoughtfully. But the same can be said about having a multitude of children for example. Trusting God doesnt take away our responsibility to make the right choices for our family. Similar to David not sleeping with ten of his wives (2 Samuel 20:3), this was a form of thoughtful consideration not to have sex in a marriage. Still, David didnt want his child taken away even though it was conceived in an unlawful way (Bathsheba).
One thing to consider is if the use of condoms or other preventive measures is a sin. It's not sexually impure, on the contrary - its safer. Is it a waste of seed (like with Onan?), only if there's an obligation to have offspring. Indeed, humans are called to be fruitful and multiply. But does that mean that God's purpose of sex is only to multiply ourselves? If not, then I think that its not right to say that its a waste to have sex for other purposes than multiplication. However it also doesnt free us of the need to procreate either. Are we allowed to limit ourselves in our procreation? I suppose so, if it serves the Kingdom of God like Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7. Honestly I dont see a reason to condemn the use of preventive birth control if used within the marriage between a man and a woman. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
Onan "SPILLED" the seed .The word spilled in Hebrew is to Destroy , Kill as it were a whole generation . Job 10:10 " hast thou not POURED ME OUT AS _》MILK AND >CURDLED < ME LIKE CHEESE. (the word "curdled" is like a protracted position as a child in a fetal position, an embryo)1. Hebrews 7:10 "for HE WAS STILL IN THE "LOINS " OF HIS FATHER WHEN MELCHIZEDEK MET HIM" When a warrior went out to battle he had as many arrows as his quiver could hold to fight the enemy! Psalm 127:5 Wonder why Christian's are losing today? Muslims are having a slew of children today and as they continue will over populate the rest. David was the 8th child. If his father had practiced child control and had 1 or 2 .......? The greatest blessing besides salvation is having children and Christians (?) are doing as the world.
here here! Let God tell you when to stop having kids. He is still the Lord of the womb, isn't He? Can we really say we are completely dependant on God if we decide to take family planning into our own hands and leave what God has to say out of it?
02:27 "Children are a blessing. But they're not a automatic blessing. Samuel would not have been more greatly blessed, if he would've had five sons who took bribes instead of two."
I don't really understand why this is so controversial. Part of a pastor's calling is to provide Godly and biblical council. Certainly there are extenuating circumstances which he would deal with on an individual basis but the exceptions never invalidate the general principles. The general principles in this case include the principle that a Christian married couple ought to be open to God's blessing in the form of children. To despise His gifts is a monumental affront. It should be obvious that such disdain is rampant in our society these days and that is lamentable. Exceptions exist but they do not invalidate the basics.
@@mkshffr4936 Oh, I’m in agreement. The vast majority of times, BC is used purely to avoid the consequences of illicit sex or to thwart God’s design for marriage. Rarely are surgical procedures purposely rendering procreation impossible a morally legitimate decision.
If two "little people" get together, for example, 1/4 of their kids will die because of the recessive dwarfism gene, so that would be an example, and most people don't fit into categories where a guaranteed genetic illness is in the picture
Glad I saw this comment, because my wife has a severe back injury that (with her doc recommended) with child birth she could Be paralyzed or even worse. So I had a vasectomy. We have no condemnation over this from our family or from God. We are very active in our nephews, and nieces lives and we feel like 2nd parent in a way to many of them.
I'm still researching this but anything hormonal including the pill, the mini pill, IUDs, implants, depo shot, plan b are all abortive. Meaning that if you look at the ways that these prevent pregnancy, it will include prevention of an implanting of a fertilized egg
That, at least generally, is the intended primary route. However, they are not 100% effective at preventing ovulation, so many if all all chemical means of birth control will also prevent implantation of the fertilized egg into the uterine wall or otherwise prevent further development, abortion, of the conceived child.
@@keithwilson6060 they fail to prevent ovulation or fertilization ~10% of the time, which if you do the math is one abortion a year. When they fail to prevent fertilization, they do still thin the uterine lining so that the zygote cannot implant and thus is a miscarriage caused by personal choice, ie an abortion
Where from the New Testament do you get that a married couple cannot decide to remain childless, especially if their reason for doing so was to make their service to the Lord their primary focus? Given that Paul states he wishes all would have his gift of remaining unmarried, e.g childless. Surely Paul was not saying the unmarried should not be in ministry or more to the point of this topic that there was a mandate that Christians were to have children as a matter of obligation. The be fruitful and multiply mandate given in the OT imho was for the founding of the human race and the creation of the nations otherwise any restriction that you impose on child birth is illegal, whether you have 1 or 5 or 10. From my experience people who apply his argument of being fruitful and multiplying draw a line on the amount of children one must have very closely below their own feet. I would be very interested for a Scripturally based objection to my opinion, especially if it takes into account my argument as to the position Paul takes in regards to staying single and childless. ( just so there is not confusion I am against abortion in any manner).
I would caution against this mindset because self deception is rampant are you absolutely sure your not lying to yourself. Are you sure it's not out of selfishness, as in you don't want to lose personal time. Saying we want to be sterile to spread God's word is like saying we want to grind next year's seed so we can make more bread. It's a bad long term strategy. Have kids and give them an example of parents devoted to God, each other, and the salvation of the lost.
Natural law theory: You are frustrating the body's natural purpose. Imagine a sack inside the body to catch the ten desserts daily desserts sent down for one's throat, like a condom or cup inside the body to catch the sperm released within the vagina. It might be effective at weight loss. It would let you eat with abandon. It does not follow that it is lawful.
So birth control is ok if you’re open to having children every 2 years. But it’s not ok if you are done having children after 2 kids. Got it. Did God send this message to you in a vision?
You should ask better questions. He said all hormone based methods are impermissible. That leaves only the ones that you can still get pregnant on. It's not an act of faithlessness to try to make it more or less likely while you're still leaving the ultimate outcome up to God. Otherwise oral sex would be impermissible, but song of Solomon explicitly describes oral sex, ftm and mtf, as a good thing
@@marclecours2718 the technology is new, the principles are not. Whether or not you can kill your children has been settled in Christian theology since before Christianity was called Judaism, 3400+ years ago
@@horrificpleasantry9474 we are not in disagreement, it is after the first minute or so that this pastor leaves that tradition and goes to his own, where contraceptives are a kind of Christian planning. This guy is telling people what those people want to hear. It’s unbiblical, clearly Saint Paul is not talking about birth control when he speaks of celibacy. He is the Pastor of people who want to have Sex, and have more sex without responsibility and LOVE that should be part of it. He’s cherry picking the word of God. Hence, my comment. “ making it up as he goes along”
Lol, he's a 'marriage counselor?' We never never 'open to children,' and we've got a hell of a better life than the childed we know. Many of whom are raising their grandkids.
I recently began to understand why Catholics are opposed to all birth control. Although they may not always state this outright, birth control promotes and enables sex outside of wedlock. It has been probably the most important factor promoting the sexual revolution and the degradation of morality surrounding the issue. That alone should give us pause about thinking through it’s legality.
All chemical bc and iud on the market currently claim to be abortive on their package inserts. The only bc that isn't abortive is the fertility awareness method, condoms, natural family planning and the like.
The birth control pill that prevents ovulation is chemical in nature but is not used for the purposes of abortion.
A
I think what pastor Wilson means is that in a marriage between a man and a woman, preventive birth control is ok, while repressive birth control is always wrong (because it involves killing a child).
Nonetheless, preventive birth control is to be used carefully and thoughtfully. But the same can be said about having a multitude of children for example. Trusting God doesnt take away our responsibility to make the right choices for our family. Similar to David not sleeping with ten of his wives (2 Samuel 20:3), this was a form of thoughtful consideration not to have sex in a marriage. Still, David didnt want his child taken away even though it was conceived in an unlawful way (Bathsheba).
One thing to consider is if the use of condoms or other preventive measures is a sin. It's not sexually impure, on the contrary - its safer. Is it a waste of seed (like with Onan?), only if there's an obligation to have offspring. Indeed, humans are called to be fruitful and multiply. But does that mean that God's purpose of sex is only to multiply ourselves? If not, then I think that its not right to say that its a waste to have sex for other purposes than multiplication. However it also doesnt free us of the need to procreate either. Are we allowed to limit ourselves in our procreation? I suppose so, if it serves the Kingdom of God like Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7. Honestly I dont see a reason to condemn the use of preventive birth control if used within the marriage between a man and a woman. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
Onan "SPILLED" the seed .The word spilled in Hebrew is to Destroy , Kill as it were a whole generation . Job 10:10 " hast thou not POURED ME OUT AS _》MILK AND >CURDLED < ME LIKE CHEESE. (the word "curdled" is like a protracted position as a child in a fetal position, an embryo)1. Hebrews 7:10 "for HE WAS STILL IN THE "LOINS " OF HIS FATHER WHEN MELCHIZEDEK MET HIM" When a warrior went out to battle he had as many arrows as his quiver could hold to fight the enemy! Psalm 127:5
Wonder why Christian's are losing today? Muslims are having a slew of children today and as they continue will over populate the rest. David was the 8th child. If his father had practiced child control and had 1 or 2 .......? The greatest blessing besides salvation is having children and Christians (?) are doing as the world.
here here! Let God tell you when to stop having kids. He is still the Lord of the womb, isn't He? Can we really say we are completely dependant on God if we decide to take family planning into our own hands and leave what God has to say out of it?
Onan had a particular duty that a general husband lacks.
02:27 "Children are a blessing. But they're not a automatic blessing. Samuel would not have been more greatly blessed, if he would've had five sons who took bribes instead of two."
I don't really understand why this is so controversial. Part of a pastor's calling is to provide Godly and biblical council.
Certainly there are extenuating circumstances which he would deal with on an individual basis but the exceptions never invalidate the general principles.
The general principles in this case include the principle that a Christian married couple ought to be open to God's blessing in the form of children. To despise His gifts is a monumental affront. It should be obvious that such disdain is rampant in our society these days and that is lamentable. Exceptions exist but they do not invalidate the basics.
So, vasectomies and other surgical interventions to prevent pregnancy are out?
It seems to me that would depend on circumstances and reasons. Convenience is a far different matter than deadly medical issues for example.
@@mkshffr4936
Oh, I’m in agreement. The vast majority of times, BC is used purely to avoid the consequences of illicit sex or to thwart God’s design for marriage. Rarely are surgical procedures purposely rendering procreation impossible a morally legitimate decision.
If two "little people" get together, for example, 1/4 of their kids will die because of the recessive dwarfism gene, so that would be an example, and most people don't fit into categories where a guaranteed genetic illness is in the picture
If the wife has severe chronic thrombocytopenia, then it could be reasonable to snip the husband, since she could die in childbirth very easily
Glad I saw this comment, because my wife has a severe back injury that (with her doc recommended) with child birth she could
Be paralyzed or even worse. So I had a vasectomy. We have no condemnation over this from our family or from God. We are very active in our nephews, and nieces lives and we feel like 2nd parent in a way to many of them.
what would be an example of abortive birth control methods?
All chemical bc and iud on the market currently are abortive.
I'm still researching this but anything hormonal including the pill, the mini pill, IUDs, implants, depo shot, plan b are all abortive. Meaning that if you look at the ways that these prevent pregnancy, it will include prevention of an implanting of a fertilized egg
@@NikkiSchumacherOfficial
I though bc pills just prevent ovulation.
That, at least generally, is the intended primary route. However, they are not 100% effective at preventing ovulation, so many if all all chemical means of birth control will also prevent implantation of the fertilized egg into the uterine wall or otherwise prevent further development, abortion, of the conceived child.
@@keithwilson6060 they fail to prevent ovulation or fertilization ~10% of the time, which if you do the math is one abortion a year. When they fail to prevent fertilization, they do still thin the uterine lining so that the zygote cannot implant and thus is a miscarriage caused by personal choice, ie an abortion
Where from the New Testament do you get that a married couple cannot decide to remain childless, especially if their reason for doing so was to make their service to the Lord their primary focus? Given that Paul states he wishes all would have his gift of remaining unmarried, e.g childless. Surely Paul was not saying the unmarried should not be in ministry or more to the point of this topic that there was a mandate that Christians were to have children as a matter of obligation. The be fruitful and multiply mandate given in the OT imho was for the founding of the human race and the creation of the nations otherwise any restriction that you impose on child birth is illegal, whether you have 1 or 5 or 10. From my experience people who apply his argument of being fruitful and multiplying draw a line on the amount of children one must have very closely below their own feet. I would be very interested for a Scripturally based objection to my opinion, especially if it takes into account my argument as to the position Paul takes in regards to staying single and childless. ( just so there is not confusion I am against abortion in any manner).
I would caution against this mindset because self deception is rampant are you absolutely sure your not lying to yourself. Are you sure it's not out of selfishness, as in you don't want to lose personal time.
Saying we want to be sterile to spread God's word is like saying we want to grind next year's seed so we can make more bread. It's a bad long term strategy.
Have kids and give them an example of parents devoted to God, each other, and the salvation of the lost.
Natural law theory: You are frustrating the body's natural purpose. Imagine a sack inside the body to catch the ten desserts daily desserts sent down for one's throat, like a condom or cup inside the body to catch the sperm released within the vagina.
It might be effective at weight loss. It would let you eat with abandon. It does not follow that it is lawful.
We are blessed with one son. Our quiver is full.
Amen sister
If that's the only child you were physically able of having, then yes, and didn't just decide one and no more.
Clear as mud.
So birth control is ok if you’re open to having children every 2 years. But it’s not ok if you are done having children after 2 kids. Got it.
Did God send this message to you in a vision?
You should ask better questions. He said all hormone based methods are impermissible. That leaves only the ones that you can still get pregnant on. It's not an act of faithlessness to try to make it more or less likely while you're still leaving the ultimate outcome up to God. Otherwise oral sex would be impermissible, but song of Solomon explicitly describes oral sex, ftm and mtf, as a good thing
The way to have kids spaced out like that that actually works best is exclusive breastfeeding, it suppresses ovulation naturally
Remember friends: *Unregenerate trolls* are best left unfed. Except perhaps with cookies.
Making it up as you go, the Protestant pastors rule book.
Ironic since his position and not yours is the one held for thousands of years of documented history
@@horrificpleasantry9474 how can that be when Birth control started in 1928?
@@marclecours2718 the technology is new, the principles are not. Whether or not you can kill your children has been settled in Christian theology since before Christianity was called Judaism, 3400+ years ago
@@horrificpleasantry9474 we are not in disagreement, it is after the first minute or so that this pastor leaves that tradition and goes to his own, where contraceptives are a kind of Christian planning.
This guy is telling people what those people want to hear. It’s unbiblical, clearly Saint Paul is not talking about birth control when he speaks of celibacy.
He is the Pastor of people who want to have Sex, and have more sex without responsibility and LOVE that should be part of it.
He’s cherry picking the word of God. Hence, my comment. “ making it up as he goes along”
Remember friends: *Unregenerate trolls* are best left unfed. Except perhaps with cookies.
Lol, he's a 'marriage counselor?' We never never 'open to children,' and we've got a hell of a better life than the childed we know. Many of whom are raising their grandkids.
I see you Peacock.
Pastors counsel couples looking to get married. It's part of their skillset if they're well trained
Remember friends: *Unregenerate trolls* are best left unfed. Except perhaps with cookies.