I think this is probably your most underrated video. It's one that has stayed with me since I first saw it and has some really interesting research standing behind a position that often is ignored. In short: nice vid
@@Kingdom850 stop being salty AF.Just watch the ENTIRE VIDEO then comment.And who tf are u to judge someone opinion.If u hate spoilers then YOU hate it.
Technically you can rewatch a mystery and appriciate the detail to it later now that you know the entire context. So you can thus get the experience the context spoiled and unspoiled. I think having both sides of that experience is valuable to a number of people. There are also the cases where you forget what happens in a story but of course you can't reliably forget everything.
i know this is an old comment but i recently watched the sixth sense knowing the big twist and that actually heightened my enjoyment in being able to tell how it was foreshadowed and the reveal and all
I recently watched Fight Club for the first time unspoiled. I agree that my "enjoyment" may not have been effected if I knew the twist beforehand, cause it's still a good movie. What I would have missed out on is the surreality I felt as it came to light, my mind flashing to everything that had happened in the movie prior and being utterly dumbfounded, made even more potent by the main characters identical reaction to mine. I watched the movie again, this time knowing the twist and I liked the movie just as much the second time, maybe even more so after understanding context, like you said BUT that initial reaction to the twist now sits in a special place in my heart and although I would have liked the movie just as much spoiled, I would have completely missed out on that little moment I had.
That's why it would be ruined though, so to speak. You can understand a movie intellectually, but that emotional response that you had was the entire reason the movie was structured the way it was. The story, the way it was shot, character dialogue, the themes... you feel it instead of just understanding how it works structurally. Everything about the movie was in service to making you feel that way in that moment. Those moments where a story, by surprise, bends your mind, or brings you to tears, or makes you laugh uncontrollably are the peak of what stories offer. If flatly telling a person something was enough to elicit these emotions from us, we wouldn't have a need for stories, nor would a story have to take place over a long period of time to have effect. You could summarize most stories in a few sentences. But that never has the effect of the drawn out, timed release of that information, whether that's in text, on the screen, on a comic page, or wherever.
For what it's worth i recently watched it for the first time, but had had it spoiled before. I absolutely missed that experience. I of course enjoyed the movie (Fincher is great) but one of my first thoughts as it came to a close was I really wish I could have seen it unspoiled.
I think most shows or films weather they're spolied or not wouldn't have as bigger impact as most people think. But something like Fight Club is one of the best on screen twists of the last 3 decades and a really shitty thing to have spoiled. The movie is still great on repeated views and you can see it from a different perspective. But this gives it re-watchability, that initial experience you can't have again or if spoiled, ever.
Well I watch videos with spoilers in them intentionally just so I can get hyped up for that movie /series. To think of how the situation occured and how will the protagonist react to , makes me more excited to see the movie /series.
Yeah.. if you don't know what's gonna happen then you will actually feel the tension. Just yesterday I was reading something where I accidently spoiled one death by taking a look at the wiki. I think I would've enjoyed that moment more if I didn't know, even though the story wasn't afraid of killing interesting characters. Then a few chapters later my favorite character got into a battle where it was likely he would die. It wasn't certain because there was another character there that could help, but he had stopped them from helping for the rest of the story to keep them out of danger. He survived and I'm really glad he did. If I knew the outcome before reading I wouldn't have cared for that moment nearly as much. He would live anyway, why worry?
for me, discovering a twist is most fun when you can guess the twist before the reveal, because the writer had cleverly sprinkled some clues. it makes me feel clever, it rewards me for being an observant audience. best one is when i watched the prestige and the sixth sense with my friends, i had my suspicions and told my friends. when my suspicions turned out to be true, boy that was a real joy
Yes exactly. Spoilers can ruin moments like those. I feel like this is something you can't just do a scientific study on. It's highly situational, from person to person, and from story to story. More importantly, most media is meant to be enjoyed with others, so your scenario of talking to your friends while watching greatly changes the results cause if you were spoiled, you'd have to sit quiet as everyone else guesses instead of participating.
Archontasius that's mainly why I love the Ace attorney and Danganronpa series . You have this feeling of "oh ok I got it " when you understand a case , that feels so good .
I felt exactly the same way with The Prestige. I guessed it maybe 20 minutes before the reveal and it was SO cool to see my prediction be true. I asked my friend that I'd seen it with if they'd guessed it, and they said no, they had no idea. I do think that story would have incredibly strongly impacted negatively if I'd known about the twist. Memento also has a great twist and it's even a story that manages to reveal its twist while telling the plot BACKWARDS. It's fucking genius.
Once you get spoiled, that's it. You can only experience the story as a [spoiled story]. But if you experience a story unspoiled, then you can experience it as an [unspoiled story], and then later as a [spoiled story]. Looking at it this way, it's very easy for me to choose the unspoiled route, because I get to experience both versions of the story.
Not necessarily. First impressions mean alot and given the massive twists, the massive change in context could ruin the story and if you knew the twist sooner, you would've made a different choice in whether to view it or not
Yeah this dude was basically making the case for people to watch his videos. More for himself probably. Like how he puts spoiler warnings for a small section of his videos even though the last 10 minutes were also all spoilers. I guess to justify it or something. A huge part of super eyepatch wolf's work on youtube is spoiling shit. I mean Idon't mind. I only click on shows I've seen
sometimes knowing certain character dies makes their death even sadder to me because i know they're dying for real, and that it's not just a bluff. great video!
i think the right to choose is exactly why spoilers are so annoying. when i get spoiled by some dick in a comments section or by my own stupidity by looking for some specific piece of information about a story and stumbling upon some plot revelation, i lost the choice for how i got to experience the story. i have actively read spoilers knowing they were spoilers before, and still enjoyed a story, but it bugs me when that choice is made for me.
Side/related note, Dumbledore's fate, as well as Harry's, was spoiled for me before I ever got a chance to get into the stories. And I've never seen the whole franchise because I know the ending. I hope to see them eventually, but I don't have a desire to at the moment because of what was spoiled to me.
BizkitRebellion This. Though funnily enough, spoilers lead you to more quickly discover many other moments in the story. If a twist is well foreshadowed and recontextualises a character or a plot thread, then seeing all the nods to that twist which now make sense becomes much more gratifying, IMO
yeah that is true, but some stories are ment to be watched or played multiple times and so the effect of seeing some details that you didnt notice before would have come naturally. When this is the case you just basically robbed them of one playthrough or one extra watch of the movie/series.
It's weird, being spoiled on moments like the Red Wedding (to name one example); I honestly still enjoyed those moments. At the same time I do enjoy the twists and turns in a given plot.
Khorneflakes Same, I played the Tell-tale's GoT series so the first moment I see is the Red Wedding. I eventually tried out GoT after seeing the first episode like a month later because it was free and fell in love. When I got to that moment, I got this weird feeling of "...Oh shit, this is where it happens isn't it..." And I still enjoyed it so much. I think a normal viewer would get the sudden shift which would be fun but I got a feeling of dread that just kept building up because I knew what was in store.
I think there's a reason why Berserk starts with Black Swordsman instead of Golden Age (except for Miura possibly not knowing exactly what happened to Guts in the past at ep. 1) - we get to see Griffith, we know he tried to sacrifice Guts, we know there was some kind of relationship between them. We don't know the details and ultimately they don't really matter, you can probably guess the outcome of the Eclipse 1/3 into the Golden Age. What really matters is seeing Guts' development throughout his childhood and his friendships in the Band of the Hawk - all the time knowing in the back of your head that all this will be taken from him by Griffith... and the closer you get to the Eclipse, the more clear the reasoning behind all that we've seen in the Black Swordsman becomes. Miura truly is the master of storytelling.
actually I first watched the movies (or ovas, whatever) and that convince me to start reading the manga, and now Im among hundreds who say its the best manga of all time (actually its worth of mention not only in the manga industry but as art in general). I did enjoy every part of it, it has parts that were rushed or even ignored in the movies, but the eclipse was still the part I couldn´t wait to happen even thou I have already seen it. I would even recomend people to do this cause the eclipse is the best and most meaningfull part in the whole story, if you watch the movies and still dont want to read the manga that means you wouldnt like it anyway. And I dont want to be the one saying "ooh but dont say you dont like it before reading till chapter 100 or so" cause I hate when people say things like that. Im honestly not sure if I could have read till that point without watching the movies, the beginning is good but Im not sure if it would trap me
yeah but that part is so emotionally and graphically brutal that it's still impactful no matter how many times you read it, but getting there without knowing anything is just incredibe
"Ruin" is a strong word. Stories are more than their plots, yes, but the experience of discovering something for the first time is something I would never want to take from myself. I can appreciate a piece of art on a second viewing/read anytime I want. But you only get one first time.
TheGrades90 see but just because you know how something ends, or how and when and twist happens, by no means does it make it that you suddenly have experienced the entire piece. You may have important knowledge of the plot, but you havent seen it transpire and devolpes and all the nuances that take place. Man did you even watch the video?
Yes, I did. But again, If you know information about the plot, you have no choice but to experience the piece in a different way than if you were to approach the piece in the same way the characters do (if it's a conventional narrative). And that doesn't mean the experience is bad if you know the ending, but you no longer have the ability to observe something with a feeling of complete mystery.
some spoilers as eyepatch was saying can push you into actually viewing something you wouldn't have otherwise like gurren laggen. topically, not my cup of tea but someone spoiled it for me one day and I had to check it out.
Something spoiled never ruins anything. It just changes my mindset. If I watch it not knowing what to expect, I get just that, the surprise. If I watch it knowing what to expect, I become engaged in looking for all the subtle things that hint and foreshadow the big moment. Both are quite enjoyable to me.
Filip Gasic well then he can go look for spoilers as much as he wants🤷🏻♂️ I myself want to experience a movie the ”intended way” (aka unspoiled) and then if I find value in watching it again then I’ll do that
But you can have it both ways. Watch it unspoiled first. Then wait a while, maybe a couple of years, then refamiliarise yourself with the plot and watch it again. You only have one chance to experience a story/plot for the first time. Every other rewatch in your life let's you appreciate the other things.
I feel like spoilers can have a really devastating effect on the tone of a story. In essence, I think spoilers turn a first time reading/viewing/playthrough into a second. Watching something for the second time is usually still great because you can appreciate the craft of it more, and certain moments will still be emotionally resonant whether you've seen them before or not. However, there are some feelings that simply cannot be felt seeing something for a second time. The example I always think of with this sort of thing is danganronpa. In every danganronpa game (and the anime), playing it for the first time is a rollercoaster of feelings of dread and anticipation, moments of relief and fleeting happiness, total confusion, "aha" moments, sadness and grief, and even existential dread. But those feelings are directly the result of not knowing what was going to happen next. I wouldn't be have felt so stressed having to decide who I spend my limited free time with if I knew who was going to die and when. I wouldn't be able to feel the immense feeling of dread in those moments when I'm sure someone has died but don't yet know who, or the feeling of shock at discovering the body. And if I already knew the big twist at the end, I wouldn't have felt the feeling of... dare I say despair, and existential dread at the weight of the revelations that conclude each entry in the series. What I'm saying is that, knowing what is going to happen in a story might not necessarily make it unwatchable, or make it feel that much worse, the truth is, it removes a lot of the emotional weight that would otherwise stick with you long after you finished a story. But that's just my opinion. Great video!
The worst about spoilers, is that they rarely happen by choice. Moreover, I think that when a story is enjoyed more, it's only because it forces the spectator in a critical mindset, where one is forced to appréciâtes the détails. As such, the "better" experience of being spoiled volutarily can be achiecheved anyway by a second viewing, contrary to the surprises of a first viewing that are 100% unique. Regarding Atlus, I think they messed up with their threat. People watching let's plays and such chose to be spoiled or not. If the threat was aimed at spoilery thumbnails, it would be fine. That being said, *go buy every Atlus games, you plebs!!!*
Agreed. I try to watch something the first time with minimal information. I want the "fresh' experience. And yeah, hardly ever by choice for me unless I find a show uninteresting from the get go.
My mom liked to be spoiled when it comes to watching series, movies or sports. She will ask first who will die in the episode or what will happen to the main characters after all is said and done or who won. It's quite weird to me but she explained that it rids her of anxiety of prediction so she can take on other details that would otherwise be missed by others. She'll just take it backwards on how it became like that, much like a prequel. She usually gets nerve wracked when a game is down to a wire. I, on the other hand, doesn't like to be spoiled (trailers or light synopsis are okay). The time it takes for me to figure out something without prior knowledge is the thrill of the adventure. The emotional weight that I alone experienced without a guide is pure joy. Mostly in sports, you know the score so every shot you will see beforehand may be useless to you because they are just going to that final score - no more, no less. I live in the expectation of the unknown while my mom takes security of the familiar. Some enjoys the journey knowing the destination while others enjoys just being in a journey with no intended destinations. In my book, the execution is far important than the plot itself. I now look with different perspectives from movies I was spoiled like the Empire Strikes Back or Back to the Future. No matter how pop culture spoiled me, it doesn't make the movie bad because how it was executed. But I'm not giving anyone licenses to spoil me. I'll stab you with a red lightsaber if you do (sadly, I was spoiled on that anticipated movie)
I feel the same way as your mom when it comes to spoilers, almost always I'll go to Wikipedia or some such site and read the whole synopsis from beginning to end before I watch something. It really does take away the anxiety of it, I find stories much more enjoyable this way.
For me a general spoil can get me exited for when it's going to happen and how etc. But a very specific spoil just ruins it, lik if they tell me exactly how, when, why aso.
Same here. Like if im told somebodys gonna die in a film and give no more context I'll just be in anticipation of when that moments gonna happen and be like "damnn" when it happens, it wont rlly ruin anything for me.
@@pixoljef7830 yO dId YoU kNoW tHaT tHe CoLoSsAl AnD aRmOrEd TiTaN aRe-: *comment section of the colossal titan breaking the wall in the first episode*
When watching Attack on Titian S2, I knew who Reiner and Bertholdt were when reading the wikia. But I was still blown away by their reveal. Assholes in Primary school spoiled the 5th Harry Potter book, but the spoiler was still worth reading and didn't detract from my enjoyment of the story.
Spoilers don't ruin a story but they definitely ruin the specific moment where you would love if you had lost your mind after the revelation or something else.
I agree. I love the rush of going berserk over a crazy twist in a story, or experiencing an emotional moment the first time. Though I’ve found that I can get that rush vicariously through watching streamers play the same games.
i see u watch aot and i’m abt to start it and my friend played a theme song and i asked what it was (it was the reiner reveal theme song) and little did i know it was like the biggest plot twist of the whole show
Someone spoiled to me the up coming chapter to me (138) I was so fucking pissed bc they did that on purpose but then I ended up forgetting everything they said
Knowing an ending really does recontextualize the thing. You see it differently. Even if it is still good you've been robbed. Because you can still watch the thing a second time if it wasn't spoiled the first time and get both experiences. Maybe.
+TheVsagent Ideally, you find a trustworthy friend/reviewer/creator who has similar taste with you. When they said something is good, it is good for you. No question asked. Realistically, that is not always impossible. So you gotta expose yourselves to some information to make a decision. The less you exposed yourselves, the more risky it become. The more you exposed yourselves, the less maximum enjoyment you will be able to get from it. It is a risk vs reward calculation.
You can't. Knowing spoilers creates excitement to see the thing you've not yet seen with your own eyes. It seems immature to allow foreknowledge to "ruin" it or "rob" you of an experience. Juvenile.
1. Positive (non-spoilery) word of mouth; particularly from a person who knows your tastes. 2. If the basic premise intrigues you, then it deserves a watch 3. You love a certain genre, so you just simply dive in and see what happens with only the title and perhaps accompanying image to go on (because sometimes that is more than enough to grab your attention). You don't need to know anything that happens in the movie, show, book, or game to be interested enough to watch, read, or play, it.
I don’t like spoilers. I love the feeling of experiencing something for the first time and taking it in as it goes. Whenever I read a plot before watching something I enjoy it less, as certain scenes used to set up a moment have their impact ruined. This ends up making it seem like a waste of time.
Same, i just searched the name of a show i wanted to watch on youtube, but the first thing i saw was a video with the title of "[Important Character] DYING IN FRONT OF [Another important character], i'm still mad, gave that video a dislike
If a spoiler suddenly ruins the movie or show you're watching, deeming it "a waste of time" then I'm sorry bud, but then it's probably not a good show either way.
@@juantsu2000 not necessarily. its just how different people view it. like me personally, if i know to much about something before hand, i feel i have little motivation to go experience it myself.
This just explained why I hate getting spoiled but at the same time loving the experience even more when I rewatch/replay/reread something. I'll go through a story blind to get the first time experience then appreciate the story by going through it again but now with better context.
BaneDain The difference is that he was aquitted due to lack of evidence and since you have innocent until proven guilty in the US he was not guilty. If this was Japan's law system where it's guilty until proven innocent he would have been guilty.
The legal system says that we must be *presumed* innocent until proven guilty. The courts don't declare people Innocent in the US justice system, they only declare people Guilty or Not Guilty. For example, OJ definitely wasn't innocent, but he was found "Not Guilty" because the jury felt the prosecution couldn't make the case that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There's a difference between legal guilt and factual guilt.
The people in the experiment were there for the experiment, they knew what they were getting into and (or even if they didn't know what the experiment was going to be) they hadn't been eagerly awaiting the sequel to their all time favourite movie or anything like that.
I want to thank you. When I first saw this video in 2017, I saw the title and said, "Yes, they ruin stories." But I watched the video and the study you presented, and I couldn't believe that outcome. Like how you tested this out with The Usual Suspects, I spent a lot of time thinking about this. As a result, I've come to enjoy stories more knowing what happens than going in blind. If anything, spoilers have helped me screen a story for if it's worth my time or not. So thank you for getting me to think about this and how stories have been "ruined" for me or not over the years. I now enjoy stories better as a result and work to get others to think about it as well.
Watching without spoilers: exciting uncertainty, hope, despair etc Watching with spoilers: far better appretiation of the excecution, recogniction of detail or forshadowing
Well put, Higurashi for instances does this so very damn well. Two scenes that are not spoilers but the brilliant subtle forshadowing, the very first episode forshadows the last question (and the entire tone of the whole show) arc when Takashi jokes about Rena hiding bodies to kenchi by the dam. And later in the first Arc with Rena standing in the rain saying I'm sorry over and over which relates to something we find out in one of the answer arcs. Again not spoilers just subtle nuances that even during your second or more watch through most people won't pick up on. And quite frankly I could actually type out a brief summary of the entire story and it would be impossible to spoil the show or the novels, Its something you have to experience for yourself its the work that went into the story thats impressive, not the actual story.
It’s not about the moment, but How we got to that moment. I have the extreme habit of seeking out spoilers because I’m just so darn curious. And I read alot of books and when I think I’ve used enough time reading for the day - I just can’t help myself turning through the pages and skimming some words. And this one time I saw that 3/4 into the book this sentence implicated a characters death, and I was like “WHAT?! But… but he was… and she… why!?” I still got that surprise over the fact that this character would die but in addition this just motivated me even more to read the book because I just had to find out How and why he died! :)
I hate spoilers because it removes the experience of a blind-viewing. Even if knowing context increases your enjoyment of the rest of the work, you can always get that experience by just re-watching it. You can't replace a blind-viewing.
Your constantly being spoiled of things you don't give a crap about during your everyday life...it only becomes a problem when it affects something you hold dear to you...and that right there is the problem. You want to present the illusion that you went into it blind without bias, but that will never be the case. Its a very introverted way to look at media (notice an extrovert would never complain about this), and while its not inheriently wrong...its not right either! :/
There are several things wrong with this, so let's run down the line. First of all, you can go into a film blind and without bias, though it is rare. Take for example, a film I just watched about a half hour ago "Chungking Express" by Wong Kar-Wai. I went into that film totally blind. I had never heard of the filmmaker. I had never heard of the actors. I had never heard of anyone attached to the project. I knew next to nothing about Chinese cinema, excepting the few Hong Kong directors that made it oversees, like John Woo. The film was delightful, and I as a result of going in blind, I got something I totally didn't expect. The only thing I knew going in was that Quentin Tarantino was responsible for getting it distributed in the US, and that it came out the same year as Pulp Fiction. Much to my surprise, I ended up getting something more akin to a mid-90s Hong Kong version of Godard's Breathless. My experience was only enriched by going in blind. I will admit that this kind of thing is rare, but even when going into a film that carries a significant amount of baggage, there is still such a thing as minimizing exposure to it beforehand. There's a reason why I don't even watch trailers. Secondly, it only affects me when it's something I care about? Bullshit. I write reviews for Christsakes, even if it's a film that's being panned, I don't want to go in knowing that. Even if I end up hating something, it deserves the same basic consideration and unbiased evaluation that any other piece of art does. Thirdly, what the hell isn't right? How I prefer to consume my films? Would you kindly fuck off, sir. You have the gaul to suggest that the way in which I would like to watch movies is "not right?" How is this a problem of introversion and extroversion? Are you saying that extroverts don't care about spoilers? Why? What does that have to do with anything? As I mentioned, I write reviews, there is no more extroverted way in which to consume a movie than that. I am still complaining about it.
I read Berserk knowing exactly what would happen during the Eclipse and it still got me. I rewatched FMA: Brotherhood and the Nina and Maes Hughes moments still got me. I watched Breaking Bad after already having seen the crawl space scene and it was so much more hard hitting after seeing the whole show. in my opinion, it's the context that makes a critical moment, not the moment itself
This random guy gets it. If copious amount of media consumed taught me anything, it's that the plot matters very little compared to how said plot is executed. (cough cough Kaiji cough)
Yea, but sometimes, I don't want to watch a sad story because I know how sad it gets and I can't bring myself to go through the torture of watching everyone make mistakes and head towards the one sad moment.
well if a piece of media's quality hinges on one single moment when, if spoiled, leaves the rest of the show a seething pile of "meh" then that's a problem on its own
I liked that you mentioned Breaking Bad, because the 4th season was the first full season of the show I watched and it completely got me hooked. It was damn good though to watch the season finale in live, not being sure what to expect.
I gotta tell you, as many great movies I've seen and enjoyed spoiled, watching Fight Club and having the rug pulled from under you is an awesome feeling.
I get what you're saying, I really do. I have never not enjoyed a quality series/movie/book because the plot was spoiled for me. However, I do think there is a scenario where spoilers can severely damage the enjoyment of something: in an ongoing series where you for a long time anticipate things. My favourite book series for some years now is the Kingkiller Chronicles. I've read the first two books multiple times. It is a series featuring severe forshadowing and I've spend a good amount of time thinking about what is going to happen, what certain things mean etc. You bet I want to experience what happens for the first time within the context of the third book once it's released. If anyone spoils that books plot for me and I experience a key moment without the context I'm going to be mad as hell. I'd still read it and probably reread it 10 times over, but I want to experience the conclusion of the story I've spent so much time pondering on as I read it and not any other way.
The point of spoilers being a potentially bad thing for someone has nothing to do with the knowledge of what happens in a plot, but the fact that the experience of gaining that knowledge is what's spoiled. The intense emotion of having something revealed DURING the intended flow of a story is important for a lot of people when experiencing a work, which is why you can rewatch a good show or movie multiple times after having seen it and not feel "spoiled" or the negative emotions usually perceived around being "spoiled". It was YOUR experience you remember, and you can then go back and appreciate everything else. Also, when someone else reveals the climax of the plot or the ending of a plot before you start watching it, that's not nearly as bad as someone revealing the plot WHILE you are already in the middle of it. To me, those are two totally different experiences. I'd like to see that talked about.
Kinda like how the Star Wars prequels main selling point was that we knew Anakin was going to become Darth Vader and we were more intrigued on how he does
For the first time, I disagree with you. While what you said was not incorrect, it was missing something. Suprise, anticipation, and opportunity. Some people live life without much of surprise, so the chance to be surprised by something can excite life. Another thing is that in the study you cited, none of the stories were stories that the people were interested in. Imagine first very much wanting to read that book that had that blurb, versus the book set in front of you for a study. It's kind of like the Christmas dilemma. Being a kid and wanting to know what's for Christmas and finding out and having to wait until the day. Ugh, you know already but have to wait. Though you might be excited, you may be more likely to want to get it over quickly. I don't really fall into this group but know some who do. Anyway, last is opportunity. Spoilers rob you the chance of experiencing a medium the way you want. Do you want to know the ending and pick out everything as you read? Do you want to learn as you go and make all the guesses, testing yourself to see if you're right? Do you want to read this awesome comic on paper or kindle? Do you want to see this movie in theatres or home, or theatrical vs directors cut? It's really all about choice in how you get to experience what you enjoy. Early in your video you showed a clip from madoka, with a girl in a cupcake land coming face to face with a dangerous enemy. When I watched those movies, that surprise left an indelible mark on my memories for that series. For some reason, I didn't see it coming and it surprised me, showing me how dark it could go. Now when I think of that show, among other surprises, I always remember that as a reference point in the series that I enjoyed. Anyway, always enjoy the vids. Keep them coming! Or tldr.
Forget my blurb about opportunity. You did briefly mention it. I guess I was thinking more about coming at it from another point of view. Maybe I'm putting too much thought into your videos lol
You know what is even trashier? It's when your friend giving a false spoiler that made you wait for it, but it never happen. So you didn't even get to enjoy the whole thing. I've experienced it first hand lately.
lol. Or when people make you anticipate something because they are too dumb to speak properly. Like "Oh, don't get too attached to him", and you keep waiting every moment he is on screen for a death that never happens. Turns out he simply moved back home to his old city and was never seen in the show again.
My thinking is that the extra context deserves to be explored on a rewatch/replay/rewhatever. The story was intended to be watched spoiler free by the creator, and all the plot twists are ruined by spoilers. That being said, experiencing it again becomes such a treat! For example the twist at the end of Season 1 good place came out of left field for me. I woulda been livid if it got spoiled, and I doubt I woulda enjoyed the season as much. But when I rewatched the season before the second one, I noticed all those little hints and details the writers sprinkled in and it made the second rewatch totally different than the first. I arguably enjoyed it more! But, I wouldn't have enjoyed it without the original spoiler free viewing.
Someone actually told me the season 1 twist before i got to that episode, and I (of course) got angry about it. the spoil actually made me want to watch the show even more, cause I wanted to know how the characters reacted to the twist. so for me, it motivated me to watch the show even more. (yes I know this is a 3 year old comment hush)
When I've watched 12 Angry Men for the first time I knew what the verdict at the end was going to be, it was unintentionally spoiled to me. However it didn't affect my enjoyment of the movie at all, not even a single bit, I would even say it enhanced it for me personally. I rather found it extremely fascinating and interesting how the plot was going to develop into that ending, how every single conversation moved the plot into that conclusion, I was in awe of how naturally it developed and by the time I was finished I didn't felt like some of my experience was taken away from me by my awareness of the ending, it became instantly one of my favorite movies that I've ever watched. But that's not the case for every movie, this was a specific example where it just worked, it really depends. I've also watched many movies where the ending or a twist completely suprised me and made me love that movie even more and I would have been furious if that would have been spoiled for me. Movies like Mulholland Drive, Psycho (even tho I had a suspicion of what was going to happen), Se7en, ect.
And I just remember an instance where a spoiler really weakend my experience of a movie: The end of Shawkhawk Redemption. I still loved the movie but I felt like some of the experience that I could have had has been taken away, and it wasn't as impactful. So there's not a clear answer to this question, it depends on many factors.
All your research was impressive (as usual). Great video. But I have something to say about it: I love storytelling. I love to tell and to ear/read/watch stories in general. I do hate spoils however. Here's why: That story was wrote by a person. Since I love storytelling, I do want to know about that story, but only by the means that the writer intendeed to. When someone writes a story, if a piece of information is kept hidden, it is because the author intended to keep us in the dark. I want to read and fell a story in the way the author intended to. If I do it otherwise, I feel like I am not actually reading his story. It fills like a fanfic or something: altered by other people that are NOT the original creators.
If I were to spoil myself in order to appreciate other elements of a story, I'd rather "spoil" myself by watching it once without context and then watching it again with context.
i love the p5 bg music also: i think it heavily depends on how good the storytelling is. if the story isn't Told with subtle hints and the twist is somewhat out of the blue, spoiling said twist will just make someone get annoyed with what might otherwise seemed as plot relevant information because now you know that it isn't relevant. spoilers expose both brilliance in storytelling, if told with continuous hints at the spoiler content, and flaws in it, if the twist had very little buildup. i also find spoiling game locations to be really shitty..... like i was so amazed by futaba's tomb in persona 5 simply because i hadn't seen pictures of it beforehand, and experiencing something like sae's casino without having seen all of it before was so much fun cause i could marvel at every new location as i played it. had i seen pictures before i would probably have wanted to play the game as i saw them, but when i finally got to them i wouldn't be so amazed as the hype i would've created for myself would most likely either had fizzled out or the game just couldn't live up to my expectations. essentially spoilers can be nice if the material you're spoiling is good and the experience isn't reliant on that one moment
As much as I like Persona 5 for what it accomplishes over the past games, some of the writing and the Okumura arc are such a turn off that I can’t help but feel like just hitting that skip button.
STARDUST CRUSADERS SPOILER Kakyoin's death was spoiled to me. Normally, when Kakyoin died, I probably would've cried a lot (just like the other deaths) but since I already knew, I was very prepared for it which made just put a "meh" face while watching it. My brain was constantly telling me "ooohhh looks like kakyoins boutta die lmao" and it sucked. I hate spoilers.
For me personally, I've never really had anything truly "spoiled" for me as any such details only make me want to see and experience it for myself even more.
This is very interesting to me because I can see myself falling on both sides of the spectrum. I've rewatched some films so many times I practically know most of the lines, and the enjoyment of the plot hasn't dwindled over time so just knowing the twist doesn't detract from the enjoyment for me. But there are also some stories (especially video games, like Undertale and the Endwalker expansion for Final Fantasy XIV) that I wish I could experience for the first time again. It seems that maybe some stories, not necessarily 'plot twist' stories, have a deep impact when you experience the journey with each character for the first time, and it is hard to replicate that in future rewatches/playthroughs.
Same with Dark Souls or Professor Layton. I will never get that first playthrough back and subsequent playthroughs were great but in a different way. I will never not know the plot twists or cool gameplay elements and areas that are about to unfold yet they are still enjoyable exactly because they are familiar.
I remember telling a friend to play Undertale, and he told me it wasnt worth his time because he already knew the ending (s). I told him to go for it anyway and he ended up still enjoying it quite a bit. Just because you know the ending doesnt mean the stuff before that isnt worth experiencing.
Especially because the main appeal in Undertale is the writing. The actual plot itself, while interesting and with some neat ideas, isn't anything you haven't seen before.
Question - Can you truly spoil Jojo's Bizarre Adventure? I feel no, no matter what you learn about a character, no matter what you learn about a stands ability, no matter what you learn about a characters fate, I find it is impossible to know what to expect. Even if you know the powers, you have NO idea how a fight will play out, no matter what you know about the plot, the way things happen can still surprise you. It's a very strange entity and I can't think of many other series like this.
TopHatCat I was spoiled about Rohan's fate, but I only knew about one scene, so I never expected what happened immediately after. Good thing too because that was the fun part.
You can spoil Jojo. As nuts as Jojo is, most of the time the clues are all there, you just don't pick up on them. It's insane, but it still has rules. Mysteries have forshadowing, powers mostly stay the same, everybody and anybody can die permanently, real world logic can apply to a lot of situations. There's visual clues, design choices and simply the writing in general which can tip you off or at least lead your thoughts towards a conclusion that is at least somewhat similar to the final outcome. Not much is truly 'r4nd0m', and if it was I don't think it would be as good as it is. Once I had finished the anime and picked up the manga (with the anime being a damn faithful adaptation), I was surprised to how much of it made sense 'before the fact'. Yea, there's parts that do just come out of nowhere, but there's so much essentially told to you once you know what you're looking for. How many clues to what would happen were given to you beforehand through minor bits of dialogue, background details or simply the characters involved and the situation they're in. Some stuff that is really just real world knowledge, or how much is taught to you throughout the story about this world. I'll always remember when I first watched Stardust Crusaders, where Joseph has the parasite on his arm and my brain screamed "use your hamon on the enemy standu!", then he tried using his hamon on the parasite, then the parasite explained why it didn't work...And it was an explanation that made sense not because of hindsight, but because it was an explanation I should have already known through the rules Jojo had already set in place. It's when I first realised that things in Jojo don't "just happen". Phantom Blood is really the only part where it felt like stuff 'just happened'. Even upon a second time through, it felt like a lot of the time characters were like "I can do this now, because reasons"...Which is mostly the main reason why I still regard it as the worst part.
I've really come to appreciate your perspectives on various topics, and I think you treat them with respect. Thank you for making all these amazing videos!
this confuses me because it makes sense, but at the same time i know from experience that one of my favourite pieces of media, danganronpa, gets a LOT more boring and less of an emotional rollercoaster when you know whats gonna happen. its always fun to replay the games and look out for the signs on for example who the murderer is, but its never more fun than when you play it the first time and you have absolutely no idea where theyre gonna go and how far theyll go there. you can see how the writers always try to make you expect something other than what will actually happen, using patterns from earlier games and such. they want you to play the game unknowingly, and then play a second time, its how you can appreciate the clever writing at its best. maybe other rules apply when the entire thing is very twist-based instead of just a normal movie with a twist in it
Tofsie Meow Have you finished V3? I just beat it like a week ago and man oh man, if I knew how that game ended before playing it I would absolutely have felt robbed of the entire experience, (spoilers for V3 in case you haven't finished it..........knowing that it's all fiction absolutely would've taken me out of the immersion of trying to figure out all the connections to hope's peak, experiencing the immense dread when I realized Kaede was the killer, feeling the heartbreak for both Kaito and Maki during the events of chapter 5, thinking what's going to happen when they leave and are the literal last survivors of humanity, etc, I would've felt so robbed of all those situations and more if I knew that one simple plot twist that it's all fiction)
@Starscream91 Depends on the story, in Detective or mystery stories, the plot was built upon twist and reveal. Because you know, they're "Mystery" stories. And if you play Danganronpa, you'll know that it's not a weak story.
@@Sutcideneb this same video already covers that point, that even in mystery stories and stories with a surprise twist near to the end are not ruined if that plot point is revealed at the beginning. My guess to the effect described in the initial comment is that the single point of who is the murderer is not that important, and you can enjoy those mystery games/stories even with that point spoiled; but if you already know every single thing that is going to happen, then the sense of wonder is completely lost. In the mystery genre the fun is piecing everything together, not just finding out the culprit. If you know the culprit in advance it can be even more enjoyable because it allows to appreciate more details and have more room to piece the things together, but if you already know all the information, then there is no pieces to put together.
I would say this video is more focused on spoilers that contextualize the story and affect the parts before the spoiler happens. This works in mysteries (and similar stories) because it allows you to appreciate the details (that you probably wouldn't have known if not spoiled). Knowing that Thanos snapped his fingers to eliminate half of all life would not increase your enjoyment as that spoiler has no affect on the earlier parts of the story - its just a surprising moment that is now ruined. There are probably better labels for this but you can say a past spoiler and a future spoiler. A past spoiler is something that recontextualizes events that appeared before it and a future spoiler is something that changes the story going forward. Knowing that Luke Sky-walker is Darth Vader's son is a past spoiler (It may help you view some scenes in a new context) but knowing that Portgas D. Ace dies does not help you enjoy the story in any way. Even for past spoilers if one truly wanted to experience what it would be like to be spoiled they can just rewatch the media and view those little details. Considering you can view it spoiled any time you want the best way to avoid ruining a story that would be good unspoiled would be to just avoid spoilers.
My high school “friends” spoiled that part of One Piece and it killed all my enthusiasm to keep watching the show for a long time. What’s the point when I already know what happens?
That seems like a strange view on one piece in particular, one piece more than most media I can think of is almost entirely enjoyed on the journey and the destination is very distant behind that
@@bagelcubed In my opinion, then you're not interested on One Piece for any artistic merit (or just general quality) it might have. You watch it for the enthusiasm, for the experience, for the thrill of the unknown. The only thing spoilers ruin is the ability of a show to make you think that it's better than what it actually is because of more intense feelings while watching it. If that's the main thing that spoilers do, then I don't care about them. And if you mostly care about the specific outcome in a story, then the rest of it might not be that great.
Bit late to the party. What you describe here closely resembles how M. Night Shyamalan differentiates between 'reveals' and 'twists'. I remember in an interview he commented on people considering his movies to have great twists (probably quite an old interview, heh) and disagreed, saying that they are rather 'reveals'. A twist changes the story or plot progression from that point onward, whereas a reveal recontextualizes prior plot points.
The place where spoilers really ruin things is when you're talking about scenes with deep emotional impact. If you find out what happens in a media that is likely to make you feel something before you're intended to, it can really lessen the emotional impact. I think that's the key to this whole discussion.
One example where I think spoilers do matter is, funny enough, Persona 3. The plot drastically changes how I play the game. Playing the game for the first time and using Shinjiro in my party makes his story more impactful because the plot impacts the gameplay. On repeat playthroughs of P3 I change how I use him because I already know his arc. For a channel focusing on film all your points are quite valid, but for a video game where the player's choices are impacted by the infomatiom they have, there's a lot more to consider. I think that Atlus's actions are extreme, but if there's any game where spoilers matter, it's Persona.
I am in the "don't spoil me at all costs" camp, but I have to point out, that what atlas did was ridiculous. Not putting out spoilers is a front. Their restrictions made it 0% less likely for me to get spoiled. If I wanted to get spoiled I could anyway, and if I didn't it did not help me in the least. This was about something else.
Dustin T hahahaHaHaahHaahaaHAHAHahahahnnznhusaaaiammszmzjzziwiwwszizjzz Skxmz zhowmsskwereediyoujujstodeusjjjahsmssxjjusjssunsswiooeliijdejdjjahahahahaha SaskksjdadhsjjshukajjshhahhhHHHHAA Sorry...i think i jsuppt hadd. Ha jsrieke
Watching something unspoiled is a very different experience than watching it spoiled. Just watch it unspoiled first to enjoy the twist, then watch it again to catch all the details. Thats the best way...
Same here... got spoiled about the ending hours before watching it... everybody says they expected HIM to die but I expected a different ending. And it's been a franchise I've been following for the last 11 years. Now I can't make peace with it...
Alpha Rookie's fantastic and spoiler-filled video on the Hellboy comics is what got me into comic books and that series in particular. I forgot several details and got to relive them but even though a good chunk was spoiled for me, it's still one of my favorite pieces of media if not my absolute favorite. It still made me cry multiple times. And if not for that whole video I would've never gotten into it
I was listening to a Stephen King interview once where he was discussing seeing his signature style of writing upon the second reading of any of his works. He said that the first time you read something your mind is almost primal racing to get to the next point and experience what happens next. But upon the second reading then you can see him there. You can see his tendencies and his themes and how hes communicating with the reader. To me a spoiler simply changes the experience from experience A to experience B. I prefer for this to not happen though because I want this change of experience to happen on my own terms. It's not enough to ruin a story though. Just alter my experience of it
This is a fantastic video, and one that really gets to the heart of the issue and considers multiple angles. Personally, I have three experiences that I think encapsulate my views on it: when the Eclipse from Berserk was spoiled for me, when it was spoiled for me that Spike died at the end of Cowboy Bebop, and when I watched Madoka Magica for the first time and saw everything unspoiled. For Berserk, I found out about the Eclipse and everything that goes down in it long before I read it, and it was still extremely impactful. In fact, due to the nature of the event, I might not have continued reading Berserk if I didn't know it happened, and that things progressed and got better (relatively speaking). As for CB, I found out about his death shortly before I began watching the show, and that provided context and actually contributed to the emphasis on inevitability that permeated the show, so I think my experience was arguably improved by that knowledge. On the other hand, for Madoka Magica, I watched it with no prior knowledge and was blown away and enthralled by the twists and turns and the lack of knowing what was about to happen. And then upon rewatches, I was able to use my knowledge of it which gave me a completely different viewing experience. I guess what I'm saying is, each show should be taken separately if possible, but it's not the end of the world if something is spoiled.
like, I'm down with someone spoiling ALL of Kendrick's albums and the messages, but for say, some things, like Madoka Magica, I NEEDED the spoilers to enjoy the show, but give me some indie game like, Contrast, Gone Home, or To The Moon, and the effects of each title would have been diminished if I was spoiled
like, a Persona game, to me, is more a series about it's characters, and being genuinely curious about the random situations, that way I grow connected better to the characters... however, a thought piece, where the characters are second to the overall meaning of a work, THAT I can't have spoiled... like, it's all dependent on yeah, actually, plot's a good way to put it...
Nier Automata didn't really have any unexpected twists to it, but I do feel some moments would have been a little less poignant if I knew about them beforehand. For one plot thread in particular, watching a train wreck in slow motion isn't surprising, but knowing the train is going to wreck even as it sits in the station can still reduce the impact. As for Persona 4, honestly I think going in spoiled is one of the best ways to experience it because it gets you through the first chunk of the game where there's nothing happening.
Spoilers about characters later in the story has the effect of completely removing tension from some scenes. As an example, the Lord of the Rings series. If you were in the years they were being released, and had no prior knowledge of the series. You think Gandalf is fucking dead. Then after leaving your first viewing of Fellowship, or in the line for Two Towers you hear somebody say to a friend, "Bro, I wonder how they're gonna do Gandalf the White."
I started watching your videos a few months back with the Simpsons video and I have slowly been working through your catalog. I would describe myself as a casual anime fan, so it wasn't even your subject matter that drew me in. It is your passion and the care that you take with each video. I have watched almost all of your videos now. I assumed that this video would be a throw away, but it is another classic. Thank you for all that you do.
At this stage where information is readily available, I'm not annoyed by spoilers. You pretty much read my mind. I look into things to see they're worth my time or not. My tastes have become refined with age so it's only fair that I know if said thing suits them.
Master they just cant shut the fuck up I was rewatching the ending of part 3 and someone spoiled major deaths thats why I cant enjoy watching jojo without spoilers anymore
@@moshimoshi6137 they're annoying asf, i got spoiled on major deaths of part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. Because of that shitty fanbase, i can't taste jojo
here's the thing though, you get the spoiled experience in re-watches. the time when you can focous on everything except the plot. but the blind experience in something that you will loose forever.
I absolutely love this discussion. I generally don't care about spoilers. I've never really found it ruins a show/game/movie for me. More often than not, it actually allows me to analyze the full story and see what subtle clues exist leading to the supposed "twist." And I think this need for the "twist" to be secret and revered as that important is what also let's writers/filmmakers think they can rely on that twist to sell their story (Shaymalan). A story is more than just a twist. It's good characters and conflict that truly make the story sell itself. That said, I fully understand the desire for most people to be surprised by their entertainment. I mean, hell, I enjoy the surprises too when I can get them because that shock factor isn't something you can recreate after you have that information. Overall, I'd say this shock factor isn't really a big deal because a twist can be just as bad as it can be good. And if the set up didn't do it's job, this twist or spoiler whatever will fall flat. But if you know what is coming ahead of time, you can be better prepared for the "twist" without your expectations getting too wild and expecting something far beyond what the writing was ever meant to do.
Got spoiled about the ending of Endgame hours before watching it... everybody says they expected HIM to die but I expected a different ending. And it's been a franchise I've been following for the last 11 years. Now I can't make peace with it... Because everybody was bawling while I was just... you know the feeling. I felt anger mostly.
If something is worth spoiling, then its impossible to explain it in a way to do it justice The moments that make up a spoiler are meaningless with the context surrounding them
I think there's something to be said for how important a story is to the consumer of the media, and how entrenched they are in it. for example, I was into Game of Thrones for a while there. I was only watching the TV show, and I eventually fell out of it, but while I was watching, I enjoyed it. now, in that story, characters die quite often, and which ones end up dead could be significant spoilers. there were certain characters where, if someone told me they died later on, I probably would've shrugged and kept watching. and there were others where, if someone had told me they died, it might make me less excited to continue the story because I was rooting for them and hoping that they would succeed. the nature of a spoiler can make a huge difference in whether or not someone really cares about the content being spoiled. a major character death can be a devastating spoiler because the dread leading up to a death that you *know* is going to happen is a much more inhibiting type of feeling than the feeling of hope that the character will survive, which eventually gives way to the emotional gut punch of their death, and the intrigue of how the aftermath will be handled by all the various other characters. a spoiler is detrimental when it makes getting to it feel like work. on the other hand, it's almost impossible to spoil a show like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, because the information doesn't even make any sense out of context. you can only care when it's relevant anyway. I think in this way there are actually two different kinds of spoilers. technical spoilers and emotional spoilers. obviously the two can overlap, but the main difference is that technical spoilers don't really disappoint as much, while emotional spoilers tend to feel worse. spoilers like which ensemble characters are going to be in an upcoming video game, or what the twist is in a complex plotline, might take away the mystery... but you're still probably going to like what you're getting, even if you know you're getting it. but revelations like X character dies, or this person is really so-and-so's father, or this well liked character in the main cast betrays the group... it feels bad to know those things before you're supposed to, especially if you feel like the narrative is trying to give you the tools to figure it out ahead of time. and I think a lot of this goes back to something I've seen mentioned a lot in these comments, which is that you can experience a show unspoiled the first time around, and then go back and experience it again with all of your prior knowledge... you can have it both ways. but only if you saw it unspoiled to begin with. you can only have one first experience. and the other thing that I mentioned about the effect of spoilers is investment. when I was invested in Game of Thrones, any major character death would've been a really irritating spoiler. but now? eh. I mean, I might go back to Game of Thrones someday, but it's not really a central focus of mine right now. if someone were to tell me about a major character death at this point, it wouldn't affect me much. right now, I'm detached from those characters. I'm not even sure who knows who at the point in the story where the character dies. I don't know who's going to be sad, or who's plans might be foiled, or who stands to benefit. the flaw in the experiments mentioned in this video is that it doesn't account for fans of longer running works of fiction. you can spoil the contents of a previously unknown book or movie for yourself or someone else, and if they're not interested yet, it might actually get them hooked. but if you spoil the new chapter of a long-running serialized manga that someone was actively following, and that chapter contained a major character death, that feels a LOT worse. if the work is new to you, a spoiler still leaves you with the option of never becoming invested in the work in the first place, so it never has to matter to you. if you're entrenched in the story and in it for the long haul, a spoiler feels much more like you're being robbed of something that you really wanted.
This is why I tend to prefer movies on the rewatch. Whenever I watch a new thing, my experience is generally a little bit tainted by my apprehension about investing my time into it, but when I’m rewatching it’s because I already know that I’m going to enjoy it, and I’m free to appreciate it for what it is. It also makes it a lot harder to be disappointed, since there are never expectations that can be denied.
I watched several animes, HXH, Jojo´s, and yu yu hakusho only after having seen your videos on why I should watch them :D and I spoilered myself harshly that way, but that took nothing of my enjoyment, I freaking loved everyone of them and even though knowing about certain characters deaths for example and having seen parts of it in clips before, they still roasted my heart very hard. so from my experience, spoilers do not ruin stories, although I gotta say that its preferable to experience the stories unspoilered. I can also definetely say that I wouldve not watched HXH had I not seen your video on it before, so thx for that ^^ it was amazing, one of the greatest watching experiences I ever had.
Really great discussion! I think you're right when you say that it all comes down to whether you get to CHOOSE to be spoiled or not. For example: intentionally reading the wiki page for Elfen Lied was what made me wanna watch it :D but on the other hand, accidentally stumbling upon One Piece spoilers for some big plot twists while I was catching up on it felt like I was robbed of seeing those revelations for myself D:
Most know _Sixth Sense_ , _Empire Strikes Back_ & _Fight Club_ 's twists. I long preferred knowing plots beforehand, but I regret spoiling _Sorry to Bother You_ for myself.
TBQH, I used to be a lot more up in arms about spoilers when I was younger. While there are certainly some things (namely some video games) where I don't want any spoilers at all, most things I've come to be alright with spoilers for. This mostly started when I started watching CinemaSins, oddly enough. First I started with him sinning movies I'd already seen, then I started poking around in uploads and watching ones for movies I'd yet to see or had never even heard of. And, amusingly enough, oftentimes, even though he sort of shows the majority of a movie in those videos, it often led me to go and seek out the actual movies so I could watch them myself and experience them, even knowing all the twists and turns. (American Beauty comes to mind) Of course, sometimes a good surprise is great, but sometimes knowing the surprise is fine, because it means I get to analyze everything around that surprise on the first viewing.
"Do spoilers ruin a story?" is simply the wrong question. Plot twists and great story moments give you a certain feeling if you experience them unprepared. You loose out on that feeling if it gets spoiled beforehand. Simple as that, no more no less. When a new Pokemon game comes out, I try to avoid the many Pokemon that get revealed in the marketing phase, because I love the feeling of going on an adventure and discover the Pokemon myself. I don't want to know what a new Pokemon evolves into, because the process is exciting and the evolution itself is designed to build up anticipation. If I have too many information in advance, it changes how I approach the game. It lets me plan out my experience much more and mechanize it sorta. I will still like the game, but it'll be a different kind of experience.
You're welcome, and I love you too. ...And yes, the youtube upload WAS in high enough res to make that out Also, nice touch having the instrumental version of 'Beneath the Mask' playing in the background ever so subtly
“After grizzly photos of the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson were shown in court, O.J. turned his head away and wept. It was at that moment that he realized he would never be able to kill her again.” ~ Norm
The only reason why I watched Cabin in the Woods, is because of spoilers. I was adamantly against it because I couldn't care less about a bunch of teens getting killed by zombies.
Yes, the presentation of his scientific studies and data is more than fine, but that's not at all what the title is evocative of. The title of "Do Spoilers Ruin Stories?" for most is gonna be an immediate answer because it's based on a person's individual experience and values, as well as being a question that can be immediately answered with yes or no responses. Thus you are giving the audience not something to be intrigued for, but something they can answer on their own, AND at times something that literally insults their intelligence by asking something so obvious to a lot of them. Like I suggested, a title that is less personal, that gives us a more accurate preview of what the video hold would had been more inviting, rather than such a divisive title that at best lets people know they already have the answer and at worst makes people yell what its obvious to them in the comment section before even watching the video. That is a fact to take into account, that people are going out of their way to discuss not the content of the video, but their own experience. Or just how shitty the title is, too.
Malthizar exactly, so you can see why they died. I think looking at solutions is a shallow view to the whole story. Death is part of the journey and ultimately what lead to that is more important than nothing that tiny fact. If you were waiting for characters to die, it's a problem you have as a viewer only thinking the outcome is what is important.
I knew Caesar was going to die when i saw Joseph wearing the headband. What made interesting was i didn't know how he was going to die and when he did I feel like that made it even sadder.
Look at Titanic, they reveal at the beginning that the boat is going to sink, and that Rose survives, yet the movie keeps you engaged the whole way through.
Nine out of ten spoilers I received before watching _Jojo_ could barely even count as spoilers because of how ridiculous they were out of context. I mean, seriously, why on earth would the main villain of Part Four hate ambulances?
Third reason it could be annoying : it feels like a very intense awesome moment was replaced by someone just telling it badly
@BTIsaac dumbass
I know I got spoiled so much in games especially bioshock infinite
Spoilers don't fucking matter is you honestly care about the story being spoiled you're just a little baby
At least in my opinion
@@muke6473 why?
I think this is probably your most underrated video. It's one that has stayed with me since I first saw it and has some really interesting research standing behind a position that often is ignored. In short: nice vid
Wow your here
Hey it Dragon ball man and one piece man. Sup
@@thechefisacookin And jojo now
Ayouyyghhh
Hey man, I enjoyed your one piece reviews
To sum up, in a few words: "It's not (always) about the destination, it's about the journey."
but major plot twists occur in the middle of the story....aka not the destination but during the journey.
But if there was no destination, there would be no journey
@Starscream91 cool, I don't fucking care what people consider. Stories generally have twists during the half way point to keep the audience engaged.
@@Kingdom850 stop being salty AF.Just watch the ENTIRE VIDEO then comment.And who tf are u to judge someone opinion.If u hate spoilers then YOU hate it.
@@msjkmsjk5347 >responding to a year old comment expecting anyone to still care. Lmfao
Technically you can rewatch a mystery and appriciate the detail to it later now that you know the entire context. So you can thus get the experience the context spoiled and unspoiled. I think having both sides of that experience is valuable to a number of people. There are also the cases where you forget what happens in a story but of course you can't reliably forget everything.
i know this is an old comment but i recently watched the sixth sense knowing the big twist and that actually heightened my enjoyment in being able to tell how it was foreshadowed and the reveal and all
I recently watched Fight Club for the first time unspoiled. I agree that my "enjoyment" may not have been effected if I knew the twist beforehand, cause it's still a good movie. What I would have missed out on is the surreality I felt as it came to light, my mind flashing to everything that had happened in the movie prior and being utterly dumbfounded, made even more potent by the main characters identical reaction to mine.
I watched the movie again, this time knowing the twist and I liked the movie just as much the second time, maybe even more so after understanding context, like you said BUT that initial reaction to the twist now sits in a special place in my heart and although I would have liked the movie just as much spoiled, I would have completely missed out on that little moment I had.
That's why it would be ruined though, so to speak. You can understand a movie intellectually, but that emotional response that you had was the entire reason the movie was structured the way it was. The story, the way it was shot, character dialogue, the themes... you feel it instead of just understanding how it works structurally. Everything about the movie was in service to making you feel that way in that moment.
Those moments where a story, by surprise, bends your mind, or brings you to tears, or makes you laugh uncontrollably are the peak of what stories offer. If flatly telling a person something was enough to elicit these emotions from us, we wouldn't have a need for stories, nor would a story have to take place over a long period of time to have effect. You could summarize most stories in a few sentences. But that never has the effect of the drawn out, timed release of that information, whether that's in text, on the screen, on a comic page, or wherever.
For what it's worth i recently watched it for the first time, but had had it spoiled before. I absolutely missed that experience. I of course enjoyed the movie (Fincher is great) but one of my first thoughts as it came to a close was I really wish I could have seen it unspoiled.
I don't know about taking away emotion. I was spoiled to Fight Club, but I still felt for the characters and cheered them on.
I think most shows or films weather they're spolied or not wouldn't have as bigger impact as most people think. But something like Fight Club is one of the best on screen twists of the last 3 decades and a really shitty thing to have spoiled.
The movie is still great on repeated views and you can see it from a different perspective. But this gives it re-watchability, that initial experience you can't have again or if spoiled, ever.
Well I watch videos with spoilers in them intentionally just so I can get hyped up for that movie /series. To think of how the situation occured and how will the protagonist react to , makes me more excited to see the movie /series.
When someone says a character dies, my mind's response to the death scene becomes "yep there we go" and my enjoyment of the character plummets.
so you didn't like breaking bad because you knew Walter white was gonna die at the end? lmao.
idklol why would you do that?
@@jazaniac oh come on it ended 7 years ago by now
@@jazaniac It's literally revealed in the first episode he has cancer. Walter White dying isn't a spoiler.
Yeah.. if you don't know what's gonna happen then you will actually feel the tension.
Just yesterday I was reading something where I accidently spoiled one death by taking a look at the wiki. I think I would've enjoyed that moment more if I didn't know, even though the story wasn't afraid of killing interesting characters.
Then a few chapters later my favorite character got into a battle where it was likely he would die. It wasn't certain because there was another character there that could help, but he had stopped them from helping for the rest of the story to keep them out of danger. He survived and I'm really glad he did.
If I knew the outcome before reading I wouldn't have cared for that moment nearly as much. He would live anyway, why worry?
for me, discovering a twist is most fun when you can guess the twist before the reveal, because the writer had cleverly sprinkled some clues. it makes me feel clever, it rewards me for being an observant audience.
best one is when i watched the prestige and the sixth sense with my friends, i had my suspicions and told my friends. when my suspicions turned out to be true, boy that was a real joy
Yes exactly. Spoilers can ruin moments like those.
I feel like this is something you can't just do a scientific study on. It's highly situational, from person to person, and from story to story. More importantly, most media is meant to be enjoyed with others, so your scenario of talking to your friends while watching greatly changes the results cause if you were spoiled, you'd have to sit quiet as everyone else guesses instead of participating.
Archontasius that's mainly why I love the Ace attorney and Danganronpa series . You have this feeling of "oh ok I got it " when you understand a case , that feels so good .
I'm glad there's at least one comment pointing that out. Thank you.
I felt exactly the same way with The Prestige. I guessed it maybe 20 minutes before the reveal and it was SO cool to see my prediction be true. I asked my friend that I'd seen it with if they'd guessed it, and they said no, they had no idea.
I do think that story would have incredibly strongly impacted negatively if I'd known about the twist. Memento also has a great twist and it's even a story that manages to reveal its twist while telling the plot BACKWARDS. It's fucking genius.
Once you get spoiled, that's it. You can only experience the story as a [spoiled story].
But if you experience a story unspoiled, then you can experience it as an [unspoiled story], and then later as a [spoiled story].
Looking at it this way, it's very easy for me to choose the unspoiled route, because I get to experience both versions of the story.
Not necessarily. First impressions mean alot and given the massive twists, the massive change in context could ruin the story and if you knew the twist sooner, you would've made a different choice in whether to view it or not
people don't usually have the time to play the same game twice same goes with tv
Yeah this dude was basically making the case for people to watch his videos. More for himself probably. Like how he puts spoiler warnings for a small section of his videos even though the last 10 minutes were also all spoilers. I guess to justify it or something. A huge part of super eyepatch wolf's work on youtube is spoiling shit. I mean Idon't mind. I only click on shows I've seen
Indeed, Scott Pilgrim will be my example for this.
Exactly!
sometimes knowing certain character dies makes their death even sadder to me because i know they're dying for real, and that it's not just a bluff. great video!
i think the right to choose is exactly why spoilers are so annoying. when i get spoiled by some dick in a comments section or by my own stupidity by looking for some specific piece of information about a story and stumbling upon some plot revelation, i lost the choice for how i got to experience the story. i have actively read spoilers knowing they were spoilers before, and still enjoyed a story, but it bugs me when that choice is made for me.
Yeah, any way you slice it, thats a dick move.
I CANNOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE!! I NEED DUMBELDORES MEMORY POOL!!
Side/related note, Dumbledore's fate, as well as Harry's, was spoiled for me before I ever got a chance to get into the stories.
And I've never seen the whole franchise because I know the ending.
I hope to see them eventually, but I don't have a desire to at the moment because of what was spoiled to me.
Do Spoilers ruin stories? No
Do Spoilers ruin moments? Yes
BizkitRebellion This. Though funnily enough, spoilers lead you to more quickly discover many other moments in the story. If a twist is well foreshadowed and recontextualises a character or a plot thread, then seeing all the nods to that twist which now make sense becomes much more gratifying, IMO
yeah that is true, but some stories are ment to be watched or played multiple times and so the effect of seeing some details that you didnt notice before would have come naturally. When this is the case you just basically robbed them of one playthrough or one extra watch of the movie/series.
Max Mustermann I think it's not that spoilers ruin moments. it's that spoilers change moments.
It's weird, being spoiled on moments like the Red Wedding (to name one example); I honestly still enjoyed those moments.
At the same time I do enjoy the twists and turns in a given plot.
Khorneflakes Same, I played the Tell-tale's GoT series so the first moment I see is the Red Wedding. I eventually tried out GoT after seeing the first episode like a month later because it was free and fell in love. When I got to that moment, I got this weird feeling of "...Oh shit, this is where it happens isn't it..." And I still enjoyed it so much. I think a normal viewer would get the sudden shift which would be fun but I got a feeling of dread that just kept building up because I knew what was in store.
I got spoiled the ending of Berserk's golden age arc and I still felt like my heart was blown out by a laser beam at the end of it.
Chill bruv i feel ya
I think there's a reason why Berserk starts with Black Swordsman instead of Golden Age (except for Miura possibly not knowing exactly what happened to Guts in the past at ep. 1) - we get to see Griffith, we know he tried to sacrifice Guts, we know there was some kind of relationship between them. We don't know the details and ultimately they don't really matter, you can probably guess the outcome of the Eclipse 1/3 into the Golden Age. What really matters is seeing Guts' development throughout his childhood and his friendships in the Band of the Hawk - all the time knowing in the back of your head that all this will be taken from him by Griffith... and the closer you get to the Eclipse, the more clear the reasoning behind all that we've seen in the Black Swordsman becomes. Miura truly is the master of storytelling.
actually I first watched the movies (or ovas, whatever) and that convince me to start reading the manga, and now Im among hundreds who say its the best manga of all time (actually its worth of mention not only in the manga industry but as art in general). I did enjoy every part of it, it has parts that were rushed or even ignored in the movies, but the eclipse was still the part I couldn´t wait to happen even thou I have already seen it.
I would even recomend people to do this cause the eclipse is the best and most meaningfull part in the whole story, if you watch the movies and still dont want to read the manga that means you wouldnt like it anyway. And I dont want to be the one saying "ooh but dont say you dont like it before reading till chapter 100 or so" cause I hate when people say things like that. Im honestly not sure if I could have read till that point without watching the movies, the beginning is good but Im not sure if it would trap me
yeah but that part is so emotionally and graphically brutal that it's still impactful no matter how many times you read it, but getting there without knowing anything is just incredibe
Dude literally everyone saw that ending coming. Griffith was mentioned as a villain in the start.
"Ruin" is a strong word. Stories are more than their plots, yes, but the experience of discovering something for the first time is something I would never want to take from myself. I can appreciate a piece of art on a second viewing/read anytime I want. But you only get one first time.
competely agree
TheGrades90 see but just because you know how something ends, or how and when and twist happens, by no means does it make it that you suddenly have experienced the entire piece. You may have important knowledge of the plot, but you havent seen it transpire and devolpes and all the nuances that take place. Man did you even watch the video?
Yes, I did. But again, If you know information about the plot, you have no choice but to experience the piece in a different way than if you were to approach the piece in the same way the characters do (if it's a conventional narrative). And that doesn't mean the experience is bad if you know the ending, but you no longer have the ability to observe something with a feeling of complete mystery.
TheGrades90 and again not everyone cares or even thinks about that.
some spoilers as eyepatch was saying can push you into actually viewing something you wouldn't have otherwise like gurren laggen. topically, not my cup of tea but someone spoiled it for me one day and I had to check it out.
Something spoiled never ruins anything. It just changes my mindset.
If I watch it not knowing what to expect, I get just that, the surprise.
If I watch it knowing what to expect, I become engaged in looking for all the subtle things that hint and foreshadow the big moment.
Both are quite enjoyable to me.
But for the second experience you have unlimited opportunities to enjoy. The first, on the other hand, can only be enjoyed once.
Can you tell the same for Endgame?
Filip Gasic well then he can go look for spoilers as much as he wants🤷🏻♂️
I myself want to experience a movie the ”intended way” (aka unspoiled) and then if I find value in watching it again then I’ll do that
But you can have it both ways. Watch it unspoiled first. Then wait a while, maybe a couple of years, then refamiliarise yourself with the plot and watch it again. You only have one chance to experience a story/plot for the first time. Every other rewatch in your life let's you appreciate the other things.
@@hankjones7054 I don't recall saying I couldn't have it both ways. I recall saying I personally love spoilers and the reason why I never minded them.
I feel like spoilers can have a really devastating effect on the tone of a story. In essence, I think spoilers turn a first time reading/viewing/playthrough into a second. Watching something for the second time is usually still great because you can appreciate the craft of it more, and certain moments will still be emotionally resonant whether you've seen them before or not. However, there are some feelings that simply cannot be felt seeing something for a second time. The example I always think of with this sort of thing is danganronpa. In every danganronpa game (and the anime), playing it for the first time is a rollercoaster of feelings of dread and anticipation, moments of relief and fleeting happiness, total confusion, "aha" moments, sadness and grief, and even existential dread. But those feelings are directly the result of not knowing what was going to happen next. I wouldn't be have felt so stressed having to decide who I spend my limited free time with if I knew who was going to die and when. I wouldn't be able to feel the immense feeling of dread in those moments when I'm sure someone has died but don't yet know who, or the feeling of shock at discovering the body. And if I already knew the big twist at the end, I wouldn't have felt the feeling of... dare I say despair, and existential dread at the weight of the revelations that conclude each entry in the series. What I'm saying is that, knowing what is going to happen in a story might not necessarily make it unwatchable, or make it feel that much worse, the truth is, it removes a lot of the emotional weight that would otherwise stick with you long after you finished a story.
But that's just my opinion. Great video!
The worst about spoilers, is that they rarely happen by choice. Moreover, I think that when a story is enjoyed more, it's only because it forces the spectator in a critical mindset, where one is forced to appréciâtes the détails. As such, the "better" experience of being spoiled volutarily can be achiecheved anyway by a second viewing, contrary to the surprises of a first viewing that are 100% unique. Regarding Atlus, I think they messed up with their threat. People watching let's plays and such chose to be spoiled or not. If the threat was aimed at spoilery thumbnails, it would be fine. That being said, *go buy every Atlus games, you plebs!!!*
Agreed. I try to watch something the first time with minimal information. I want the "fresh' experience.
And yeah, hardly ever by choice for me unless I find a show uninteresting from the get go.
My mom liked to be spoiled when it comes to watching series, movies or sports. She will ask first who will die in the episode or what will happen to the main characters after all is said and done or who won. It's quite weird to me but she explained that it rids her of anxiety of prediction so she can take on other details that would otherwise be missed by others. She'll just take it backwards on how it became like that, much like a prequel. She usually gets nerve wracked when a game is down to a wire. I, on the other hand, doesn't like to be spoiled (trailers or light synopsis are okay). The time it takes for me to figure out something without prior knowledge is the thrill of the adventure. The emotional weight that I alone experienced without a guide is pure joy. Mostly in sports, you know the score so every shot you will see beforehand may be useless to you because they are just going to that final score - no more, no less. I live in the expectation of the unknown while my mom takes security of the familiar.
Some enjoys the journey knowing the destination while others enjoys just being in a journey with no intended destinations. In my book, the execution is far important than the plot itself. I now look with different perspectives from movies I was spoiled like the Empire Strikes Back or Back to the Future. No matter how pop culture spoiled me, it doesn't make the movie bad because how it was executed. But I'm not giving anyone licenses to spoil me. I'll stab you with a red lightsaber if you do (sadly, I was spoiled on that anticipated movie)
I feel the same way as your mom when it comes to spoilers, almost always I'll go to Wikipedia or some such site and read the whole synopsis from beginning to end before I watch something. It really does take away the anxiety of it, I find stories much more enjoyable this way.
For me a general spoil can get me exited for when it's going to happen and how etc. But a very specific spoil just ruins it, lik if they tell me exactly how, when, why aso.
Yeah, I feel that same way.
Same here. Like if im told somebodys gonna die in a film and give no more context I'll just be in anticipation of when that moments gonna happen and be like "damnn" when it happens, it wont rlly ruin anything for me.
That’s actually a decent mindset. Instead of condemning the spoiler, embracing it and using it to enhance your viewing experience.
Deadass aot manga readers are the worst
@@pixoljef7830 yO dId YoU kNoW tHaT tHe CoLoSsAl AnD aRmOrEd TiTaN aRe-:
*comment section of the colossal titan breaking the wall in the first episode*
I pretty much had all of JJBA spoiled but still enjoyed every second of the anime
Fyrewound same
the JoJo fanbase can't shut up it seems
WRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!
@Matias Ficarra Abacchio, Buciaratti and Narancia all die in Vento Aureo
Hahaha expect more spoilers in part 6
When watching Attack on Titian S2, I knew who Reiner and Bertholdt were when reading the wikia. But I was still blown away by their reveal.
Assholes in Primary school spoiled the 5th Harry Potter book, but the spoiler was still worth reading and didn't detract from my enjoyment of the story.
Never heard of an asshole reading HP before
@@TonyHill2335 the book is much better and more detailed
@@freezegiannis Of course,all of them are
Sorry buddy but Reiner just has the same face and hair as his titan form xD
Comment is late but it was easy finding out who the Reiner and Bert was .
Spoilers don't ruin a story but they definitely ruin the specific moment where you would love if you had lost your mind after the revelation or something else.
A COMMENT SECTION RUINED THE
xc1 spoilers
ZANZA REVEAL FOR ME WHYYYY
I agree. I love the rush of going berserk over a crazy twist in a story, or experiencing an emotional moment the first time. Though I’ve found that I can get that rush vicariously through watching streamers play the same games.
i see u watch aot and i’m abt to start it and my friend played a theme song and i asked what it was (it was the reiner reveal theme song) and little did i know it was like the biggest plot twist of the whole show
@@robarms17 I was spoiled about that plot point too by TH-cam itself.
Someone spoiled to me the up coming chapter to me (138) I was so fucking pissed bc they did that on purpose but then I ended up forgetting everything they said
Knowing an ending really does recontextualize the thing. You see it differently. Even if it is still good you've been robbed. Because you can still watch the thing a second time if it wasn't spoiled the first time and get both experiences. Maybe.
How would you even know a show deserves watching if you don't spoil yourself first?
+TheVsagent Ideally, you find a trustworthy friend/reviewer/creator who has similar taste with you. When they said something is good, it is good for you. No question asked.
Realistically, that is not always impossible. So you gotta expose yourselves to some information to make a decision. The less you exposed yourselves, the more risky it become. The more you exposed yourselves, the less maximum enjoyment you will be able to get from it. It is a risk vs reward calculation.
You can't. Knowing spoilers creates excitement to see the thing you've not yet seen with your own eyes. It seems immature to allow foreknowledge to "ruin" it or "rob" you of an experience. Juvenile.
1. Positive (non-spoilery) word of mouth; particularly from a person who knows your tastes.
2. If the basic premise intrigues you, then it deserves a watch
3. You love a certain genre, so you just simply dive in and see what happens with only the title and perhaps accompanying image to go on (because sometimes that is more than enough to grab your attention).
You don't need to know anything that happens in the movie, show, book, or game to be interested enough to watch, read, or play, it.
NASTAR01 You don't need to, but it helps. IMO, of course.
I don’t like spoilers. I love the feeling of experiencing something for the first time and taking it in as it goes. Whenever I read a plot before watching something I enjoy it less, as certain scenes used to set up a moment have their impact ruined. This ends up making it seem like a waste of time.
To see HOW it folds out
I ruined Stone Ocean for myself and have four months to forget it.
Same, i just searched the name of a show i wanted to watch on youtube, but the first thing i saw was a video with the title of "[Important Character] DYING IN FRONT OF [Another important character], i'm still mad, gave that video a dislike
If a spoiler suddenly ruins the movie or show you're watching, deeming it "a waste of time" then I'm sorry bud, but then it's probably not a good show either way.
@@juantsu2000 not necessarily. its just how different people view it. like me personally, if i know to much about something before hand, i feel i have little motivation to go experience it myself.
This just explained why I hate getting spoiled but at the same time loving the experience even more when I rewatch/replay/reread something. I'll go through a story blind to get the first time experience then appreciate the story by going through it again but now with better context.
OJ wasn't found "Innocent" he was found "Not Guilty". Sounds arbitrary but there's a difference.
Cybershell also, the writers of that show clearly expected the audience to know the outcome from the start.
BaneDain The difference is that he was aquitted due to lack of evidence and since you have innocent until proven guilty in the US he was not guilty. If this was Japan's law system where it's guilty until proven innocent he would have been guilty.
Cybershell Nice to see you're still around. Been almost a year since your last upload.
Innocent until proven guilty. In other words there is a presumption of innocent They don't need to declare him innocent he is already there..
The legal system says that we must be *presumed* innocent until proven guilty. The courts don't declare people Innocent in the US justice system, they only declare people Guilty or Not Guilty. For example, OJ definitely wasn't innocent, but he was found "Not Guilty" because the jury felt the prosecution couldn't make the case that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There's a difference between legal guilt and factual guilt.
The people in the experiment were there for the experiment, they knew what they were getting into and (or even if they didn't know what the experiment was going to be) they hadn't been eagerly awaiting the sequel to their all time favourite movie or anything like that.
I want to thank you. When I first saw this video in 2017, I saw the title and said, "Yes, they ruin stories." But I watched the video and the study you presented, and I couldn't believe that outcome. Like how you tested this out with The Usual Suspects, I spent a lot of time thinking about this. As a result, I've come to enjoy stories more knowing what happens than going in blind. If anything, spoilers have helped me screen a story for if it's worth my time or not. So thank you for getting me to think about this and how stories have been "ruined" for me or not over the years. I now enjoy stories better as a result and work to get others to think about it as well.
Watching without spoilers: exciting uncertainty, hope, despair etc
Watching with spoilers: far better appretiation of the excecution, recogniction of detail or forshadowing
watching without spoilers then rewatching: the best of both worlds
So true
Well put, Higurashi for instances does this so very damn well.
Two scenes that are not spoilers but the brilliant subtle forshadowing, the very first episode forshadows the last question (and the entire tone of the whole show) arc when Takashi jokes about Rena hiding bodies to kenchi by the dam. And later in the first Arc with Rena standing in the rain saying I'm sorry over and over which relates to something we find out in one of the answer arcs.
Again not spoilers just subtle nuances that even during your second or more watch through most people won't pick up on. And quite frankly I could actually type out a brief summary of the entire story and it would be impossible to spoil the show or the novels, Its something you have to experience for yourself its the work that went into the story thats impressive, not the actual story.
In the end it depends what you prefer or are looking for.
that's why you can watch a great movie multiple times
It’s not about the moment, but How we got to that moment.
I have the extreme habit of seeking out spoilers because I’m just so darn curious. And I read alot of books and when I think I’ve used enough time reading for the day - I just can’t help myself turning through the pages and skimming some words.
And this one time I saw that 3/4 into the book this sentence implicated a characters death, and I was like “WHAT?! But… but he was… and she… why!?”
I still got that surprise over the fact that this character would die but in addition this just motivated me even more to read the book because I just had to find out How and why he died!
:)
I think being spoiled being connected to the fear of losing something you'll never get back is spot on.
I hate spoilers because it removes the experience of a blind-viewing. Even if knowing context increases your enjoyment of the rest of the work, you can always get that experience by just re-watching it. You can't replace a blind-viewing.
Your constantly being spoiled of things you don't give a crap about during your everyday life...it only becomes a problem when it affects something you hold dear to you...and that right there is the problem.
You want to present the illusion that you went into it blind without bias, but that will never be the case.
Its a very introverted way to look at media (notice an extrovert would never complain about this), and while its not inheriently wrong...its not right either! :/
The Powerhouse of the Cell I am an introvert and I never gave a single fuck about spoilers at all. Am I doing it wrong?
+ZBEP Not at all...if anything I failed to explain my last point more in depth.
(Plus you know...its more complicated than that.)
There are several things wrong with this, so let's run down the line. First of all, you can go into a film blind and without bias, though it is rare. Take for example, a film I just watched about a half hour ago "Chungking Express" by Wong Kar-Wai. I went into that film totally blind. I had never heard of the filmmaker. I had never heard of the actors. I had never heard of anyone attached to the project. I knew next to nothing about Chinese cinema, excepting the few Hong Kong directors that made it oversees, like John Woo. The film was delightful, and I as a result of going in blind, I got something I totally didn't expect. The only thing I knew going in was that Quentin Tarantino was responsible for getting it distributed in the US, and that it came out the same year as Pulp Fiction. Much to my surprise, I ended up getting something more akin to a mid-90s Hong Kong version of Godard's Breathless. My experience was only enriched by going in blind. I will admit that this kind of thing is rare, but even when going into a film that carries a significant amount of baggage, there is still such a thing as minimizing exposure to it beforehand. There's a reason why I don't even watch trailers. Secondly, it only affects me when it's something I care about? Bullshit. I write reviews for Christsakes, even if it's a film that's being panned, I don't want to go in knowing that. Even if I end up hating something, it deserves the same basic consideration and unbiased evaluation that any other piece of art does. Thirdly, what the hell isn't right? How I prefer to consume my films? Would you kindly fuck off, sir. You have the gaul to suggest that the way in which I would like to watch movies is "not right?" How is this a problem of introversion and extroversion? Are you saying that extroverts don't care about spoilers? Why? What does that have to do with anything? As I mentioned, I write reviews, there is no more extroverted way in which to consume a movie than that. I am still complaining about it.
ZBEP, of course not. It's your prerogative. That's the point.
I read Berserk knowing exactly what would happen during the Eclipse and it still got me. I rewatched FMA: Brotherhood and the Nina and Maes Hughes moments still got me. I watched Breaking Bad after already having seen the crawl space scene and it was so much more hard hitting after seeing the whole show. in my opinion, it's the context that makes a critical moment, not the moment itself
This random guy gets it.
If copious amount of media consumed taught me anything, it's that the plot matters very little compared to how said plot is executed. (cough cough Kaiji cough)
I think those moments still work because Berserk, Breaking Bad and FMA are just really entertaining pieces of media on their own
Yea, but sometimes, I don't want to watch a sad story because I know how sad it gets and I can't bring myself to go through the torture of watching everyone make mistakes and head towards the one sad moment.
well if a piece of media's quality hinges on one single moment when, if spoiled, leaves the rest of the show a seething pile of "meh" then that's a problem on its own
I liked that you mentioned Breaking Bad, because the 4th season was the first full season of the show I watched and it completely got me hooked. It was damn good though to watch the season finale in live, not being sure what to expect.
love the little "summary" bit you put there at 4:28.
I gotta tell you, as many great movies I've seen and enjoyed spoiled, watching Fight Club and having the rug pulled from under you is an awesome feeling.
I get what you're saying, I really do. I have never not enjoyed a quality series/movie/book because the plot was spoiled for me.
However, I do think there is a scenario where spoilers can severely damage the enjoyment of something: in an ongoing series where you for a long time anticipate things.
My favourite book series for some years now is the Kingkiller Chronicles. I've read the first two books multiple times. It is a series featuring severe forshadowing and I've spend a good amount of time thinking about what is going to happen, what certain things mean etc. You bet I want to experience what happens for the first time within the context of the third book once it's released. If anyone spoils that books plot for me and I experience a key moment without the context I'm going to be mad as hell.
I'd still read it and probably reread it 10 times over, but I want to experience the conclusion of the story I've spent so much time pondering on as I read it and not any other way.
The point of spoilers being a potentially bad thing for someone has nothing to do with the knowledge of what happens in a plot, but the fact that the experience of gaining that knowledge is what's spoiled. The intense emotion of having something revealed DURING the intended flow of a story is important for a lot of people when experiencing a work, which is why you can rewatch a good show or movie multiple times after having seen it and not feel "spoiled" or the negative emotions usually perceived around being "spoiled". It was YOUR experience you remember, and you can then go back and appreciate everything else.
Also, when someone else reveals the climax of the plot or the ending of a plot before you start watching it, that's not nearly as bad as someone revealing the plot WHILE you are already in the middle of it. To me, those are two totally different experiences. I'd like to see that talked about.
Kinda like how the Star Wars prequels main selling point was that we knew Anakin was going to become Darth Vader and we were more intrigued on how he does
For the first time, I disagree with you. While what you said was not incorrect, it was missing something. Suprise, anticipation, and opportunity.
Some people live life without much of surprise, so the chance to be surprised by something can excite life. Another thing is that in the study you cited, none of the stories were stories that the people were interested in. Imagine first very much wanting to read that book that had that blurb, versus the book set in front of you for a study. It's kind of like the Christmas dilemma.
Being a kid and wanting to know what's for Christmas and finding out and having to wait until the day. Ugh, you know already but have to wait. Though you might be excited, you may be more likely to want to get it over quickly. I don't really fall into this group but know some who do.
Anyway, last is opportunity. Spoilers rob you the chance of experiencing a medium the way you want. Do you want to know the ending and pick out everything as you read? Do you want to learn as you go and make all the guesses, testing yourself to see if you're right? Do you want to read this awesome comic on paper or kindle? Do you want to see this movie in theatres or home, or theatrical vs directors cut? It's really all about choice in how you get to experience what you enjoy.
Early in your video you showed a clip from madoka, with a girl in a cupcake land coming face to face with a dangerous enemy. When I watched those movies, that surprise left an indelible mark on my memories for that series. For some reason, I didn't see it coming and it surprised me, showing me how dark it could go. Now when I think of that show, among other surprises, I always remember that as a reference point in the series that I enjoyed.
Anyway, always enjoy the vids. Keep them coming!
Or tldr.
Bloodgaze If I may recommend, splitting a text that huge into paragraphs makes it easier to read : )
EnrixKeeper I just had to get my thought out before I forgot what the hell I was talking about, but good call.
Forget my blurb about opportunity. You did briefly mention it. I guess I was thinking more about coming at it from another point of view. Maybe I'm putting too much thought into your videos lol
You know what is even trashier? It's when your friend giving a false spoiler that made you wait for it, but it never happen. So you didn't even get to enjoy the whole thing. I've experienced it first hand lately.
My friend said killua is going to kill meruem
That's actually pretty fun, imo.
lol. Or when people make you anticipate something because they are too dumb to speak properly. Like "Oh, don't get too attached to him", and you keep waiting every moment he is on screen for a death that never happens. Turns out he simply moved back home to his old city and was never seen in the show again.
...i dont think id EVER trust that friends recomendations again omg
That's awesome. just massive trolling
My thinking is that the extra context deserves to be explored on a rewatch/replay/rewhatever. The story was intended to be watched spoiler free by the creator, and all the plot twists are ruined by spoilers.
That being said, experiencing it again becomes such a treat! For example the twist at the end of Season 1 good place came out of left field for me. I woulda been livid if it got spoiled, and I doubt I woulda enjoyed the season as much.
But when I rewatched the season before the second one, I noticed all those little hints and details the writers sprinkled in and it made the second rewatch totally different than the first. I arguably enjoyed it more! But, I wouldn't have enjoyed it without the original spoiler free viewing.
Someone actually told me the season 1 twist before i got to that episode, and I (of course) got angry about it. the spoil actually made me want to watch the show even more, cause I wanted to know how the characters reacted to the twist. so for me, it motivated me to watch the show even more.
(yes I know this is a 3 year old comment hush)
I wonder how high the unspoiled scores would climb to if they read the short story again.
When I've watched 12 Angry Men for the first time I knew what the verdict at the end was going to be, it was unintentionally spoiled to me. However it didn't affect my enjoyment of the movie at all, not even a single bit, I would even say it enhanced it for me personally. I rather found it extremely fascinating and interesting how the plot was going to develop into that ending, how every single conversation moved the plot into that conclusion, I was in awe of how naturally it developed and by the time I was finished I didn't felt like some of my experience was taken away from me by my awareness of the ending, it became instantly one of my favorite movies that I've ever watched. But that's not the case for every movie, this was a specific example where it just worked, it really depends. I've also watched many movies where the ending or a twist completely suprised me and made me love that movie even more and I would have been furious if that would have been spoiled for me. Movies like Mulholland Drive, Psycho (even tho I had a suspicion of what was going to happen), Se7en, ect.
And I just remember an instance where a spoiler really weakend my experience of a movie: The end of Shawkhawk Redemption. I still loved the movie but I felt like some of the experience that I could have had has been taken away, and it wasn't as impactful. So there's not a clear answer to this question, it depends on many factors.
i absolutelly love your videos
All your research was impressive (as usual). Great video.
But I have something to say about it:
I love storytelling. I love to tell and to ear/read/watch stories in general. I do hate spoils however. Here's why:
That story was wrote by a person. Since I love storytelling, I do want to know about that story, but only by the means that the writer intendeed to. When someone writes a story, if a piece of information is kept hidden, it is because the author intended to keep us in the dark. I want to read and fell a story in the way the author intended to. If I do it otherwise, I feel like I am not actually reading his story. It fills like a fanfic or something: altered by other people that are NOT the original creators.
If I were to spoil myself in order to appreciate other elements of a story, I'd rather "spoil" myself by watching it once without context and then watching it again with context.
i love the p5 bg music
also: i think it heavily depends on how good the storytelling is. if the story isn't Told with subtle hints and the twist is somewhat out of the blue, spoiling said twist will just make someone get annoyed with what might otherwise seemed as plot relevant information because now you know that it isn't relevant. spoilers expose both brilliance in storytelling, if told with continuous hints at the spoiler content, and flaws in it, if the twist had very little buildup. i also find spoiling game locations to be really shitty..... like i was so amazed by futaba's tomb in persona 5 simply because i hadn't seen pictures of it beforehand, and experiencing something like sae's casino without having seen all of it before was so much fun cause i could marvel at every new location as i played it. had i seen pictures before i would probably have wanted to play the game as i saw them, but when i finally got to them i wouldn't be so amazed as the hype i would've created for myself would most likely either had fizzled out or the game just couldn't live up to my expectations.
essentially spoilers can be nice if the material you're spoiling is good and the experience isn't reliant on that one moment
Pq¹¹
As much as I like Persona 5 for what it accomplishes over the past games, some of the writing and the Okumura arc are such a turn off that I can’t help but feel like just hitting that skip button.
The conclusion makes me feel like "dummies like to feel safe", I'm sure that's not the point but I can't help it.
Yep.
STARDUST CRUSADERS SPOILER
Kakyoin's death was spoiled to me. Normally, when Kakyoin died, I probably would've cried a lot (just like the other deaths) but since I already knew, I was very prepared for it which made just put a "meh" face while watching it. My brain was constantly telling me "ooohhh looks like kakyoins boutta die lmao" and it sucked. I hate spoilers.
For me personally, I've never really had anything truly "spoiled" for me as any such details only make me want to see and experience it for myself even more.
This is very interesting to me because I can see myself falling on both sides of the spectrum. I've rewatched some films so many times I practically know most of the lines, and the enjoyment of the plot hasn't dwindled over time so just knowing the twist doesn't detract from the enjoyment for me. But there are also some stories (especially video games, like Undertale and the Endwalker expansion for Final Fantasy XIV) that I wish I could experience for the first time again. It seems that maybe some stories, not necessarily 'plot twist' stories, have a deep impact when you experience the journey with each character for the first time, and it is hard to replicate that in future rewatches/playthroughs.
Same with Dark Souls or Professor Layton. I will never get that first playthrough back and subsequent playthroughs were great but in a different way. I will never not know the plot twists or cool gameplay elements and areas that are about to unfold yet they are still enjoyable exactly because they are familiar.
This was fascinating. Really enjoying your analysis and breaking down of major topics like this.
I remember telling a friend to play Undertale, and he told me it wasnt worth his time because he already knew the ending (s). I told him to go for it anyway and he ended up still enjoying it quite a bit. Just because you know the ending doesnt mean the stuff before that isnt worth experiencing.
But you have no idea if he would have enjoyed it more without being spoiled.
JoshieAteMyBaby thats not at all related to his point though..
Especially because the main appeal in Undertale is the writing. The actual plot itself, while interesting and with some neat ideas, isn't anything you haven't seen before.
Question - Can you truly spoil Jojo's Bizarre Adventure?
I feel no, no matter what you learn about a character, no matter what you learn about a stands ability, no matter what you learn about a characters fate, I find it is impossible to know what to expect. Even if you know the powers, you have NO idea how a fight will play out, no matter what you know about the plot, the way things happen can still surprise you. It's a very strange entity and I can't think of many other series like this.
Jojo is a special case because there is nothing like it.
TopHatCat I was spoiled about Rohan's fate, but I only knew about one scene, so I never expected what happened immediately after. Good thing too because that was the fun part.
*everyone dies*
You can spoil Jojo.
As nuts as Jojo is, most of the time the clues are all there, you just don't pick up on them. It's insane, but it still has rules. Mysteries have forshadowing, powers mostly stay the same, everybody and anybody can die permanently, real world logic can apply to a lot of situations. There's visual clues, design choices and simply the writing in general which can tip you off or at least lead your thoughts towards a conclusion that is at least somewhat similar to the final outcome. Not much is truly 'r4nd0m', and if it was I don't think it would be as good as it is.
Once I had finished the anime and picked up the manga (with the anime being a damn faithful adaptation), I was surprised to how much of it made sense 'before the fact'. Yea, there's parts that do just come out of nowhere, but there's so much essentially told to you once you know what you're looking for. How many clues to what would happen were given to you beforehand through minor bits of dialogue, background details or simply the characters involved and the situation they're in. Some stuff that is really just real world knowledge, or how much is taught to you throughout the story about this world.
I'll always remember when I first watched Stardust Crusaders, where Joseph has the parasite on his arm and my brain screamed "use your hamon on the enemy standu!", then he tried using his hamon on the parasite, then the parasite explained why it didn't work...And it was an explanation that made sense not because of hindsight, but because it was an explanation I should have already known through the rules Jojo had already set in place. It's when I first realised that things in Jojo don't "just happen".
Phantom Blood is really the only part where it felt like stuff 'just happened'. Even upon a second time through, it felt like a lot of the time characters were like "I can do this now, because reasons"...Which is mostly the main reason why I still regard it as the worst part.
I knew jotaro was gonna fight dio a few before years before watching and that added to the supense during part 2 when dio wasn't "alive"
I've really come to appreciate your perspectives on various topics, and I think you treat them with respect. Thank you for making all these amazing videos!
this confuses me because it makes sense, but at the same time i know from experience that one of my favourite pieces of media, danganronpa, gets a LOT more boring and less of an emotional rollercoaster when you know whats gonna happen.
its always fun to replay the games and look out for the signs on for example who the murderer is, but its never more fun than when you play it the first time and you have absolutely no idea where theyre gonna go and how far theyll go there. you can see how the writers always try to make you expect something other than what will actually happen, using patterns from earlier games and such. they want you to play the game unknowingly, and then play a second time, its how you can appreciate the clever writing at its best.
maybe other rules apply when the entire thing is very twist-based instead of just a normal movie with a twist in it
Tofsie Meow Have you finished V3? I just beat it like a week ago and man oh man, if I knew how that game ended before playing it I would absolutely have felt robbed of the entire experience, (spoilers for V3 in case you haven't finished it..........knowing that it's all fiction absolutely would've taken me out of the immersion of trying to figure out all the connections to hope's peak, experiencing the immense dread when I realized Kaede was the killer, feeling the heartbreak for both Kaito and Maki during the events of chapter 5, thinking what's going to happen when they leave and are the literal last survivors of humanity, etc, I would've felt so robbed of all those situations and more if I knew that one simple plot twist that it's all fiction)
I don't know why but danganronpa is especially hard when it comes to avoiding spoilers.
I never played dr, yet i keep getting spoiled
@Starscream91 Depends on the story, in Detective or mystery stories, the plot was built upon twist and reveal. Because you know, they're "Mystery" stories. And if you play Danganronpa, you'll know that it's not a weak story.
@@Sutcideneb this same video already covers that point, that even in mystery stories and stories with a surprise twist near to the end are not ruined if that plot point is revealed at the beginning.
My guess to the effect described in the initial comment is that the single point of who is the murderer is not that important, and you can enjoy those mystery games/stories even with that point spoiled; but if you already know every single thing that is going to happen, then the sense of wonder is completely lost.
In the mystery genre the fun is piecing everything together, not just finding out the culprit. If you know the culprit in advance it can be even more enjoyable because it allows to appreciate more details and have more room to piece the things together, but if you already know all the information, then there is no pieces to put together.
I would say this video is more focused on spoilers that contextualize the story and affect the parts before the spoiler happens. This works in mysteries (and similar stories) because it allows you to appreciate the details (that you probably wouldn't have known if not spoiled). Knowing that Thanos snapped his fingers to eliminate half of all life would not increase your enjoyment as that spoiler has no affect on the earlier parts of the story - its just a surprising moment that is now ruined.
There are probably better labels for this but you can say a past spoiler and a future spoiler. A past spoiler is something that recontextualizes events that appeared before it and a future spoiler is something that changes the story going forward. Knowing that Luke Sky-walker is Darth Vader's son is a past spoiler (It may help you view some scenes in a new context) but knowing that Portgas D. Ace dies does not help you enjoy the story in any way.
Even for past spoilers if one truly wanted to experience what it would be like to be spoiled they can just rewatch the media and view those little details. Considering you can view it spoiled any time you want the best way to avoid ruining a story that would be good unspoiled would be to just avoid spoilers.
My high school “friends” spoiled that part of One Piece and it killed all my enthusiasm to keep watching the show for a long time. What’s the point when I already know what happens?
That seems like a strange view on one piece in particular, one piece more than most media I can think of is almost entirely enjoyed on the journey and the destination is very distant behind that
@@bagelcubed In my opinion, then you're not interested on One Piece for any artistic merit (or just general quality) it might have. You watch it for the enthusiasm, for the experience, for the thrill of the unknown.
The only thing spoilers ruin is the ability of a show to make you think that it's better than what it actually is because of more intense feelings while watching it. If that's the main thing that spoilers do, then I don't care about them.
And if you mostly care about the specific outcome in a story, then the rest of it might not be that great.
Bit late to the party. What you describe here closely resembles how M. Night Shyamalan differentiates between 'reveals' and 'twists'. I remember in an interview he commented on people considering his movies to have great twists (probably quite an old interview, heh) and disagreed, saying that they are rather 'reveals'. A twist changes the story or plot progression from that point onward, whereas a reveal recontextualizes prior plot points.
The place where spoilers really ruin things is when you're talking about scenes with deep emotional impact. If you find out what happens in a media that is likely to make you feel something before you're intended to, it can really lessen the emotional impact. I think that's the key to this whole discussion.
One example where I think spoilers do matter is, funny enough, Persona 3. The plot drastically changes how I play the game. Playing the game for the first time and using Shinjiro in my party makes his story more impactful because the plot impacts the gameplay. On repeat playthroughs of P3 I change how I use him because I already know his arc. For a channel focusing on film all your points are quite valid, but for a video game where the player's choices are impacted by the infomatiom they have, there's a lot more to consider. I think that Atlus's actions are extreme, but if there's any game where spoilers matter, it's Persona.
I am in the "don't spoil me at all costs" camp, but I have to point out, that what atlas did was ridiculous. Not putting out spoilers is a front. Their restrictions made it 0% less likely for me to get spoiled. If I wanted to get spoiled I could anyway, and if I didn't it did not help me in the least. This was about something else.
this actually changed my opinion on spoilers. very nicely done
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Sorry...i think i jsuppt hadd. Ha jsrieke
i think i just had a stroke*
Madra 021 are you high dude
What ? Nah fam im stoned
It sure did
Watching something unspoiled is a very different experience than watching it spoiled. Just watch it unspoiled first to enjoy the twist, then watch it again to catch all the details. Thats the best way...
Just had avengers spoiled so coming here to make myself feel beter about it lol
Same here... got spoiled about the ending hours before watching it... everybody says they expected HIM to die but I expected a different ending. And it's been a franchise I've been following for the last 11 years. Now I can't make peace with it...
@@ZahidEfendiyev Ant man kills Guts
Mf every Instagram comment section was full of spoiled and I got spoiled hours before I went
I just had JoJo part 6 spoiled 😢 Jolyne dies 😭
@@requiem165 some people in tha JoJo community get off the spoiling
Can you do jojo part 4 diamond is unbreakable
Or the jojo capcom game or other jojo games
Next christmas, next christmas... :Ü™
Alpha Rookie's fantastic and spoiler-filled video on the Hellboy comics is what got me into comic books and that series in particular. I forgot several details and got to relive them but even though a good chunk was spoiled for me, it's still one of my favorite pieces of media if not my absolute favorite. It still made me cry multiple times. And if not for that whole video I would've never gotten into it
I love how there's zero escape music playing when he's talking about how clue has multiple endings lol
I was listening to a Stephen King interview once where he was discussing seeing his signature style of writing upon the second reading of any of his works. He said that the first time you read something your mind is almost primal racing to get to the next point and experience what happens next. But upon the second reading then you can see him there. You can see his tendencies and his themes and how hes communicating with the reader. To me a spoiler simply changes the experience from experience A to experience B. I prefer for this to not happen though because I want this change of experience to happen on my own terms. It's not enough to ruin a story though. Just alter my experience of it
This is a fantastic video, and one that really gets to the heart of the issue and considers multiple angles. Personally, I have three experiences that I think encapsulate my views on it: when the Eclipse from Berserk was spoiled for me, when it was spoiled for me that Spike died at the end of Cowboy Bebop, and when I watched Madoka Magica for the first time and saw everything unspoiled. For Berserk, I found out about the Eclipse and everything that goes down in it long before I read it, and it was still extremely impactful. In fact, due to the nature of the event, I might not have continued reading Berserk if I didn't know it happened, and that things progressed and got better (relatively speaking). As for CB, I found out about his death shortly before I began watching the show, and that provided context and actually contributed to the emphasis on inevitability that permeated the show, so I think my experience was arguably improved by that knowledge. On the other hand, for Madoka Magica, I watched it with no prior knowledge and was blown away and enthralled by the twists and turns and the lack of knowing what was about to happen. And then upon rewatches, I was able to use my knowledge of it which gave me a completely different viewing experience. I guess what I'm saying is, each show should be taken separately if possible, but it's not the end of the world if something is spoiled.
personally, it didnt for persona 4, but I know it definitely would have for Nier Automata... like, I think it depends on the piece of media
like, I'm down with someone spoiling ALL of Kendrick's albums and the messages, but for say, some things, like Madoka Magica, I NEEDED the spoilers to enjoy the show, but give me some indie game like, Contrast, Gone Home, or To The Moon, and the effects of each title would have been diminished if I was spoiled
like, a Persona game, to me, is more a series about it's characters, and being genuinely curious about the random situations, that way I grow connected better to the characters... however, a thought piece, where the characters are second to the overall meaning of a work, THAT I can't have spoiled... like, it's all dependent on yeah, actually, plot's a good way to put it...
shit, you hit the point on the head, at least from my perspective
basically, I should have watched the video before commenting...
Nier Automata didn't really have any unexpected twists to it, but I do feel some moments would have been a little less poignant if I knew about them beforehand. For one plot thread in particular, watching a train wreck in slow motion isn't surprising, but knowing the train is going to wreck even as it sits in the station can still reduce the impact. As for Persona 4, honestly I think going in spoiled is one of the best ways to experience it because it gets you through the first chunk of the game where there's nothing happening.
Spoilers about characters later in the story has the effect of completely removing tension from some scenes. As an example, the Lord of the Rings series. If you were in the years they were being released, and had no prior knowledge of the series. You think Gandalf is fucking dead. Then after leaving your first viewing of Fellowship, or in the line for Two Towers you hear somebody say to a friend, "Bro, I wonder how they're gonna do Gandalf the White."
I started watching your videos a few months back with the Simpsons video and I have slowly been working through your catalog. I would describe myself as a casual anime fan, so it wasn't even your subject matter that drew me in. It is your passion and the care that you take with each video. I have watched almost all of your videos now. I assumed that this video would be a throw away, but it is another classic. Thank you for all that you do.
At this stage where information is readily available, I'm not annoyed by spoilers. You pretty much read my mind. I look into things to see they're worth my time or not. My tastes have become refined with age so it's only fair that I know if said thing suits them.
8:20
How did you get actual footage of me post-Jojo Part 6 spoilage?
you made my day bro
Do you believe in pure oxygen
The Jojo fandom is annoying for spoilers
Master they just cant shut the fuck up I was rewatching the ending of part 3 and someone spoiled major deaths thats why I cant enjoy watching jojo without spoilers anymore
@@moshimoshi6137 they're annoying asf, i got spoiled on major deaths of part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.
Because of that shitty fanbase, i can't taste jojo
here's the thing though, you get the spoiled experience in re-watches. the time when you can focous on everything except the plot. but the blind experience in something that you will loose forever.
I absolutely love this discussion.
I generally don't care about spoilers. I've never really found it ruins a show/game/movie for me. More often than not, it actually allows me to analyze the full story and see what subtle clues exist leading to the supposed "twist." And I think this need for the "twist" to be secret and revered as that important is what also let's writers/filmmakers think they can rely on that twist to sell their story (Shaymalan). A story is more than just a twist. It's good characters and conflict that truly make the story sell itself.
That said, I fully understand the desire for most people to be surprised by their entertainment. I mean, hell, I enjoy the surprises too when I can get them because that shock factor isn't something you can recreate after you have that information. Overall, I'd say this shock factor isn't really a big deal because a twist can be just as bad as it can be good. And if the set up didn't do it's job, this twist or spoiler whatever will fall flat. But if you know what is coming ahead of time, you can be better prepared for the "twist" without your expectations getting too wild and expecting something far beyond what the writing was ever meant to do.
"You can not spoil a well choreographed action scene"
>ShowsThe Raid
I see you're a man of culture as well
It's not the destination. It's the journey to get there.
Got spoiled about the ending of Endgame hours before watching it... everybody says they expected HIM to die but I expected a different ending. And it's been a franchise I've been following for the last 11 years. Now I can't make peace with it... Because everybody was bawling while I was just... you know the feeling. I felt anger mostly.
Big oof
I got it spoiled and still cried
If something is worth spoiling, then its impossible to explain it in a way to do it justice
The moments that make up a spoiler are meaningless with the context surrounding them
I think there's something to be said for how important a story is to the consumer of the media, and how entrenched they are in it. for example, I was into Game of Thrones for a while there. I was only watching the TV show, and I eventually fell out of it, but while I was watching, I enjoyed it. now, in that story, characters die quite often, and which ones end up dead could be significant spoilers. there were certain characters where, if someone told me they died later on, I probably would've shrugged and kept watching. and there were others where, if someone had told me they died, it might make me less excited to continue the story because I was rooting for them and hoping that they would succeed.
the nature of a spoiler can make a huge difference in whether or not someone really cares about the content being spoiled. a major character death can be a devastating spoiler because the dread leading up to a death that you *know* is going to happen is a much more inhibiting type of feeling than the feeling of hope that the character will survive, which eventually gives way to the emotional gut punch of their death, and the intrigue of how the aftermath will be handled by all the various other characters. a spoiler is detrimental when it makes getting to it feel like work.
on the other hand, it's almost impossible to spoil a show like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, because the information doesn't even make any sense out of context. you can only care when it's relevant anyway. I think in this way there are actually two different kinds of spoilers. technical spoilers and emotional spoilers. obviously the two can overlap, but the main difference is that technical spoilers don't really disappoint as much, while emotional spoilers tend to feel worse. spoilers like which ensemble characters are going to be in an upcoming video game, or what the twist is in a complex plotline, might take away the mystery... but you're still probably going to like what you're getting, even if you know you're getting it. but revelations like X character dies, or this person is really so-and-so's father, or this well liked character in the main cast betrays the group... it feels bad to know those things before you're supposed to, especially if you feel like the narrative is trying to give you the tools to figure it out ahead of time.
and I think a lot of this goes back to something I've seen mentioned a lot in these comments, which is that you can experience a show unspoiled the first time around, and then go back and experience it again with all of your prior knowledge... you can have it both ways. but only if you saw it unspoiled to begin with. you can only have one first experience.
and the other thing that I mentioned about the effect of spoilers is investment. when I was invested in Game of Thrones, any major character death would've been a really irritating spoiler. but now? eh. I mean, I might go back to Game of Thrones someday, but it's not really a central focus of mine right now. if someone were to tell me about a major character death at this point, it wouldn't affect me much. right now, I'm detached from those characters. I'm not even sure who knows who at the point in the story where the character dies. I don't know who's going to be sad, or who's plans might be foiled, or who stands to benefit.
the flaw in the experiments mentioned in this video is that it doesn't account for fans of longer running works of fiction. you can spoil the contents of a previously unknown book or movie for yourself or someone else, and if they're not interested yet, it might actually get them hooked. but if you spoil the new chapter of a long-running serialized manga that someone was actively following, and that chapter contained a major character death, that feels a LOT worse. if the work is new to you, a spoiler still leaves you with the option of never becoming invested in the work in the first place, so it never has to matter to you. if you're entrenched in the story and in it for the long haul, a spoiler feels much more like you're being robbed of something that you really wanted.
This is why I tend to prefer movies on the rewatch. Whenever I watch a new thing, my experience is generally a little bit tainted by my apprehension about investing my time into it, but when I’m rewatching it’s because I already know that I’m going to enjoy it, and I’m free to appreciate it for what it is. It also makes it a lot harder to be disappointed, since there are never expectations that can be denied.
glad the dislike bad is more of a jedi lightsaber
I watched several animes, HXH, Jojo´s, and yu yu hakusho only after having seen your videos on why I should watch them :D and I spoilered myself harshly that way, but that took nothing of my enjoyment, I freaking loved everyone of them and even though knowing about certain characters deaths for example and having seen parts of it in clips before, they still roasted my heart very hard.
so from my experience, spoilers do not ruin stories, although I gotta say that its preferable to experience the stories unspoilered.
I can also definetely say that I wouldve not watched HXH had I not seen your video on it before, so thx for that ^^ it was amazing, one of the greatest watching experiences I ever had.
Really great discussion! I think you're right when you say that it all comes down to whether you get to CHOOSE to be spoiled or not. For example: intentionally reading the wiki page for Elfen Lied was what made me wanna watch it :D but on the other hand, accidentally stumbling upon One Piece spoilers for some big plot twists while I was catching up on it felt like I was robbed of seeing those revelations for myself D:
WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! new video!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Daniel Ashcroft I know right
This is an incredible take. Love, love this video
I got every major plot point of Ashita no Joe spoiled for me and then after watching it, it still placed in my top 4 favorite anime of all time.
JalekokRespawn god that was such a great series
Why don't you watch it once unspoiled then watch it again?
Dr. Pigeon Patriot he addresses that
Yo my college English professor is making me watch this video for his class, and I'm already a fan of your channel lol
Most know _Sixth Sense_ , _Empire Strikes Back_ & _Fight Club_ 's twists.
I long preferred knowing plots beforehand, but I regret spoiling _Sorry to Bother You_ for myself.
I spoiled myself when I recently watched Evangelion for the first time, and I loved it
TBQH, I used to be a lot more up in arms about spoilers when I was younger. While there are certainly some things (namely some video games) where I don't want any spoilers at all, most things I've come to be alright with spoilers for. This mostly started when I started watching CinemaSins, oddly enough. First I started with him sinning movies I'd already seen, then I started poking around in uploads and watching ones for movies I'd yet to see or had never even heard of.
And, amusingly enough, oftentimes, even though he sort of shows the majority of a movie in those videos, it often led me to go and seek out the actual movies so I could watch them myself and experience them, even knowing all the twists and turns. (American Beauty comes to mind) Of course, sometimes a good surprise is great, but sometimes knowing the surprise is fine, because it means I get to analyze everything around that surprise on the first viewing.
"Do spoilers ruin a story?" is simply the wrong question. Plot twists and great story moments give you a certain feeling if you experience them unprepared. You loose out on that feeling if it gets spoiled beforehand. Simple as that, no more no less.
When a new Pokemon game comes out, I try to avoid the many Pokemon that get revealed in the marketing phase, because I love the feeling of going on an adventure and discover the Pokemon myself. I don't want to know what a new Pokemon evolves into, because the process is exciting and the evolution itself is designed to build up anticipation. If I have too many information in advance, it changes how I approach the game. It lets me plan out my experience much more and mechanize it sorta. I will still like the game, but it'll be a different kind of experience.
Then what is the right answer?
Short answer: Depends on the story.
And the viewer
Sad that danganronpa, a series entirely focused on the plot and mysteries has a fandom notorious for spoiling everything
You're welcome, and I love you too.
...And yes, the youtube upload WAS in high enough res to make that out
Also, nice touch having the instrumental version of 'Beneath the Mask' playing in the background ever so subtly
“After grizzly photos of the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson were shown in court, O.J. turned his head away and wept. It was at that moment that he realized he would never be able to kill her again.”
~ Norm
Hahhahahahaa😅
The only reason why I watched Cabin in the Woods, is because of spoilers. I was adamantly against it because I couldn't care less about a bunch of teens getting killed by zombies.
Ertwin123 I'd welcome it, teens are shitheads.
I was sold Cabin in the Woods as Scooby doo meets Resident evil
Man it’s crazy rewatching this video and noticing the p5 osts after playing the game
So many people commenting before watching the video...
Cos it's a shit click-bait title. Of course they are gonna. Wish the title was more honest. "History of Spoilers" or something more literal.
Rath Mutatio I think the title is fine. He presented a scientific study that proved his hypothesis and a personal story.
Yes, the presentation of his scientific studies and data is more than fine, but that's not at all what the title is evocative of. The title of "Do Spoilers Ruin Stories?" for most is gonna be an immediate answer because it's based on a person's individual experience and values, as well as being a question that can be immediately answered with yes or no responses. Thus you are giving the audience not something to be intrigued for, but something they can answer on their own, AND at times something that literally insults their intelligence by asking something so obvious to a lot of them. Like I suggested, a title that is less personal, that gives us a more accurate preview of what the video hold would had been more inviting, rather than such a divisive title that at best lets people know they already have the answer and at worst makes people yell what its obvious to them in the comment section before even watching the video. That is a fact to take into account, that people are going out of their way to discuss not the content of the video, but their own experience.
Or just how shitty the title is, too.
hell nah. Somebody told me avdol and iggy died and I still cried when I saw it
Malthizar that's the thing, you can't just wait for something to happen. You have to have fun with the journey itself.
isaiah monroig
I was watchmg the why you should watch JoJo's bizarre adventure video and Iggy and avdols death was in the video thing
Malthizar exactly, so you can see why they died. I think looking at solutions is a shallow view to the whole story. Death is part of the journey and ultimately what lead to that is more important than nothing that tiny fact. If you were waiting for characters to die, it's a problem you have as a viewer only thinking the outcome is what is important.
I knew Caesar was going to die when i saw Joseph wearing the headband. What made interesting was i didn't know how he was going to die and when he did I feel like that made it even sadder.
Didn't know and didn't cry. I mean it surely was shocking and sad but no crying.
Look at Titanic, they reveal at the beginning that the boat is going to sink, and that Rose survives, yet the movie keeps you engaged the whole way through.
I think jojo spoilers just make it better cause you just wanna see how that happens
Nine out of ten spoilers I received before watching _Jojo_ could barely even count as spoilers because of how ridiculous they were out of context. I mean, seriously, why on earth would the main villain of Part Four hate ambulances?
everything that involves jojo makes everything better
my personal favorite are when people try to make the premise of a part sound as ridiculous as possible. part 7 and 8 especially
Could you give those premises, starting at part 1?
Stand spoilers are the best, like that one stand in part 8 that drowns you in money