Heaviest Manchu Bow for Archery Exams
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Based on this 1896 source about Qing Dynasty Imperial Archery Examinations: "The gymnastic exercises were a test of physical strength of the candidates. One of these tests was carried out with special bows known as 'numbered bows'. These bows were extraordinarily large and heavy. Their standard sizes - No. 1, No. 2 and No . 3 - were 12, 10 and 8 "li" respectively (70.8 kg, 59 kg and 47.2 kg). These 'numbered bows' were never intended to shoot arrows. The
candidate stood before the Presiding Officer with a bow (usually the No.l at 70.8 kg) held at the centre in his left hand. He would extend his left arm, taking up the string in his right and bringing it full draw (grasping the string with his full fist, without an arrow). Then, he would let it down again immediately. He had to perform this action three times, and then announce his own name and go down on one knee before the Presiding Officer."------------Source: Le P. Etienne Zie (Siu) S.J. 'Pratique des Examens Militaires en Chine'. Shanghai: Varietes Smologiques No. 9. 1896.
阿利弓箭
滿清弓
This is a custom Imperial Strength Bow, the heaviest warbow you can buy from Alibow. I asked for extended siyahs so it looks more Manchu and a longer draw length. It was found that the bow is 145lbs@33.4 ". What makes this traditional bow special is that the initial draw weight is very high, compared to my Pigskin Hungarian Alibow, which is of similar final draw weight. I believe the force draw curve is closer to a real horn sinew Manchu bow than most other designs, due to the immense siyahs.
These bows are based on strength bows of the imperial martial examination in the Qing dynasty of China. The participants of these examinations were required to draw these bows to a full draw as a part of proof of their strength and technique. (The other tested subjects were archery on foot, archery on horse, and weighting lifting).
#滿清 #阿利弓箭
You have really gotten stronger since last year. Just don't hurt your self again. I wish joe gibbs was more social and made more videos
thanks, i wish joe posted more as well but I think he has kids so busy busy
make manchuria great again
I recommend you use a waist cable. Justin Ma demonstrated one and explain why for heavy bows, people should use it above hunting bow poundages. Much less stress on you Jack
i tried the waist cable but it looks like the limbs dont bend evenly (from the perspective of sitting down). instead i used the waist cable to string it via english longbow way, its been working but id imagine thats not possible with highly reflexed bows
he did use the cable
Holy sheeze! 145lb is no joke! After witnessing this I can't keep shooting my 45ver and still call myself a man. Gotta step up my game. At least 70lb.
Looking forward to see if you will be able to manage the slavic draw on that weight.
Cheers!
thanks. i cannot do slavic at this weight. conventional 3 finger med draw is my only method of drawing this. thumb draw I'm almost there
Take it slow, 5 pounds at time. Dont want an injury
@@jake4194 most average or a little bit above average men who are fit and in their prime can pull a 70 pound bow so he should be fine unless he has bad technique.
70ilb lol bet you never get their
impressive last vidéo i seen of you, you were injured . you seem's to be fine now ! whatever you are so strong, i didn't know that an exam exist shooting hyper heavy bows
Exams existed for both drawing heavy bows and shooting heavy bows. IIRC, the Qing Dynasty in the 1600s-1700s (or maybe a different dynasty) used a bow equal to 75% the draw weight of the bowmen's max practice bow on the actual battlefield. The Song Dynasty (10th to 13th cent. AD) archery exams involved draw weights of 160lbs for infantry archers and 120lbs for cavalry archers to become first class archers. To become second class archers, they had to shoot bows of 148 lbs for infantry, and 104 lbs for cavalry. A mounted archer received 5 points for hitting a target with a 134 lb bow, 4 points with a 119 lb bow, 3 points with a 104 lb bow. [Source: p. 248-250 of Chinese Archery by Stephen Selby]
@@Intranetusa thank you so much for those informations, i appriciate a lot. i m impress by an archer able to drawing a bow as heavy without falling down of his horse . So keep going 👍
@@Intranetusa I like that you quoted the page
hi, I'm going to buy the same today. when you asked for customization, did you ask only for extended siyahs or did you specify this draw weight you have actually? what is the most effective in the customization of the bow to have a heavy draw weight like yours? and where you buy your arrows for this bow? thanks for sharing your experiments. it's very instructive
@Combat Archery USA anything wrong with gay
i asked for extended siyahs and as heavy as possible with furthest draw length. i make my own arrows. i think normal siyahs are more effective because it has less weight. mine just looks more manchu
So, you supposedly do combat archery, yet when someone actually mans up to pull the weight of bows used in combat, you call it gay. You have a small brain, fragile ego, and a small . . .
@Combat Archery USA If you don't like the channel, you don't have to watch it, old man.
@USA Master Archery Instructor You have banned from ATARN facebook page cause you are so hateful and it's really sad. I have never seen someone so jealous and insecure. You go on to insult other archers like Justin Ma or Gary Cheny. They don't respond to your shit posts cause they are true archery masters unlike you. They are above your level and don't need to go around to other people's site and trash talk like you do. Archery is continual self improvement. You need to improve on your attitude. From a martial arts perspective, if you are a horrible person, it doesn't matter if are the best archer in the world. You fail at being a better person. Your lack of respect for others is reflected back at you . You have tell people that you are a "master archer instructor" of USA. No one takes you seriously.
I can really appreciate the idea behind the Manchu making each arrow count , they knew that every time they loosed one of those arrows at least one man was dead and often times two . Well done Jack 👏
Hey jack i finally found you 🙏😀 👏 so happy 😀 to see u ,no more hitchhiking I guess 🤔🙏🙏
glad to see you. im planning to finish editing my trips and then do more non hitchhhiking travel vids in the future
@@HistoricalWeapons awesome 👏 god bless you jack 🙏👍👍 I’ll be waiting for those great videos!🙏
This bow is overbuilt for pulling, not shooting. arrows shot are around 1500 grain so even skydrawing will not shoot beyond the range's max distance
Archery was still used in warfare up to the 19th century in China.
there are a lot of reasons, but simply put, the Manchu rulers (East of Mongolia) during this time period were reluctant to abandon their archery traditions.
Manchurian archery examinations were conducted to find out your suitability as a warrior. One of the categories was bow pulling. The typical bow at the time was 156 pounds, and their force draw curve was harder to pull than a longbow due to the initial draw weight.
what is the standard arrow weight you shoot? that seems like a heavy arrow IIRC. arent most longbow arrows lighter than that?
@@mdstmouse7 alibow recomends 16gpp which is around 2400 grain recommended. that's too heavy In my opinion so i used 1500.
@Piano Man no 145lbs is too impractical for combat. in my opinion. 100lb max. manchu bows are harder to pull than english longbows due to high initial draw weight
I love your grunts, it's like a test of masculinity! Kidding, I'm a bit surprised, I didn't know this about our heritage. The east having strength bows, as I've only heard of English long bows capping at 100 lbs. I use our "heritage" lightly, as I know I'm Chinese but I'm abc, like you my ingresh is immaculate and I've been mistaken for white over the phone. I don't know if I'm Manchu or hanfu or whatever hundreds of subsets of our people. Thanks for the video essays, I thinks this is the best bargain outside of the backyard bowers PVC bows.
in fact medieval English military bows were 160 to 200 lb. draw, as was roughly the Chinese infantry bow of the 12th and 13th centuries
Alibow makes excellent laminated bows and they're considered top tier bows that originate in mainland China together with Afei, Lao Wei, Yan Long and some other minor brands. I personally own an Alibow tatar, and I've tried other Alibow products in the archery range where I practice. Very efficient bows and they have limited poundage loss over heavy use. I highly recommend their Silk Road series that comes with quasi historically accurate bow shapes and refined paint job (optional extra). Have fun shooting!
You have done a great job!
That's fangtastic 😂
When those syahs get to work the pull gets easier, I'd imagine.
I don't think manchu bows were ever speed monsters, but the force behind the arrow must have been high.
I look forward to seeing you shoot this beast with thumb release 😁
man thumb release is so hard with this beast
@@HistoricalWeapons A manchu thumb ring might help. I would imagine it eases some of the pressure on the thumb.
Lol as he said it not good for shooting .....try welsh long war bow 185ilbs was classed as war bow
Plus you can shoot them lol its not strength test ..The Welsh where real men
Another crazy Canuck! Stay safe Jack, 55 pounds is a heavy bow for me these days, lol!
After a break from serious archery I may have injured my left arm drawing 47lb. As a result I've not drawn any bow for months.
he is mongolian manchurian not canada
Yes you finally got a jig to measure draw weight that always killed me watching people do it by hand. Also finally a heavy Manchu kind of style bow, handle should have no reflex at least from ones I've seen and the siyahs might need to be longer I can't tell from the video. I've been so mad there were no fiberglass Manchu bows over 80lbs I'm so glad for you and myself for getting to see this. Congrats bud
it is not my jig, it is by alibow
Darn I thought That was you talking in the background. Mine paid for itself saving my back.
Awesome!
How would bow ment for actual shooting differ from this? I came across a reference which stated that such high draw weight bows were used in the Qing army (for actual use), so I presume it's not the draw weight. Or am I mistaken?
War bows varied, but actual war bows went from 120 - 200 lb {or thereabout} draw weight boots were found in Mary Rose that were figured to have 180.
You gotta remember they were intended to kill people in armour, if not by going through the armour then by making their armour unusable.
The Qing Dynasty had high draw weight bows for both actual use and for training. IIRC, they would use a bow that was 75% of the draw weight of their max poundage training bow for actual use. The highest recorded draw weight for the Qing was a 240lb bow used by a champion Manchu archer in an archery competition, and even in the 1700s (when archery was in decline), they still had ~80 archers in a garrison in the city of Hangzhou that could pull bows between 140-170 lbs. But this was supposed to represent a "decline" in standards as a greater portion of archers should have been able to pull this draw weight but most by that time could could only pull 80-130 lbs.
@@Intranetusa Interesting! Source, please?
@@sitrilko 1) The information about the declining standards of the archery garrison that only had 80 people who could draw 140-170lb bows is on p 179. The Manchu Way by Mark C. Elliott. See quote:
"Bows were graded by "strength" (lilhusun), from three to as high as eighteen, according to their stiffness. Ability at a strength of six (probably a pull of about 80 pounds) was considered minimal for a grown man, and a strength of ten (about 133 pounds) was required for participation in hunts.18 A 1736 report found that of 3 ,200 troops at the Hangzhou garrison about 2,200 were able to draw bows of strengths six to ten, and 80 could handle bow strengths of eleven to thirteen....These results were confirmed a few months later by an officer who
cautioned that among younger soldiers few were able "with ease" to use bows of strengths greater than seven or eight"
2) The 240lb draw weight bow is on p. 180 of the same book. See quote: "The champion in a 1728 contest between the one hundred top bowmen in the empire won one hundred taels when he hit the bull's-eye using an eighteen-strength bow an estimated drawing weight of almost 240 pounds."
3) The information about max training weight bow vs actual battlefield or competition bows is from Peter Dekker's Mandarin Mansion website, a historical arms and armor dealer in the Netherlands. It looks like I was off in my numbers as the site says actual battlefield bows were a range between 50-80% of the bowman's max draw weight rather than 75% of the max draw weight.
Your videos are awesome and thanks for sharing and reviewing so many different bows. I have only shot a bow once at a shooting range and after watching quite a few of your videos I feel like I want to go give it another try. I also love the historical facts as well. You should consider doing some powerlifting it would not only help you with pulling some of those massive bows but I think you would also look great as you look like you have a good base to start from and it would also help to prevent any possible injuries. Keep up the great work!
Its crazy people back in the day could pull these bows with their reduced stature, nutrition etc.
Hahahaha, were you saying wocaonima when you loading the string to the bow? It has accurately described how heavy the bow is. Great video brother, thank you for making it.
what is wocaonima
@@Dnahwjjwjejnenex swearing
Wow youtube auto censors the hanzi for cao ni ma. Figures 🙄
Omg I got to get one . I'm having such a hard time finding a Turkish/mongolian / Hungarian style short horse bow.
I want a full circle bend unstrung.
You can string it by yourself, of course, by kneeling one leg and pull forward with the whole body
That's so crazy. I'm freaking jealous.
Still to this day I've wondered if and how well I'd handle an actual war bow. I can pull a 75lb no problem. Still never handled a war bow yet. My heaviest bow I've ever tillered is an 86lb rawhide / gopher snake backed juniper.
It kicks my a$$ after a bit of shooting. The velocity is kinda low at 142 fps but it will throw the heaviest wooden arrow I have at the exact same speed and penatrate much better.
哥们我只能说你太牛逼了，在B站上也看到过你的视频。关键加拿大这边能运过来吗？我是想买把梁志先生的清弓 120磅的
yes but i just dont have the motivation. feel free to move any video with link and mention to my B zhan
That’s got to be pretty tough, so what is your accuracy with the bow. 👍🏼🏹🇺🇸
not good at all. this is a bow designed to be pulled, not designed to be shot (as stated in their website) 16 gpp minimum arrow weight
Really awesome bow! Great video!
Dry firing a 145lb strength bow would entail a serious cosmetic surgery.
I love love the Advanced mongol yuan bow. The profile looks exactly like the mongol bow in ghost of Tsushima
Heavy bows by theory need heavier bigass arrows to match, speed won't increase, but the extra oomph....
As a slingshot shooter, same theory.
شلونك حبيبي. 💖👏
هذا الرجل في حالة حب
خلي احجي عراقي 😂
روح عمو روح. روح لا اخلي الناس تضحك عليك 😌
make america great again
Looks cool, what poundage recurve would shoot the farthest with arrow drag into consideration cause I know higher pounds need thicker arrows which increase drag, Thanks.
theres a lot of factors involved but id check out the flight archery records.
@@HistoricalWeapons where is that?
Good job managing a 145# bow. That's impressive! I forget, what category would that put you in, with the exam?
their #1 is 156lbs so i failed that
好好好
they brought you something to eat, eat and don't torment yourself and us
Thats one thick bow
Please give me the buy link of this bow
that doesn't work, it has a lot of poundage... that garbage is going to hurt your shoulder
actually i got stronger after this bow
I just wanna say I really enjoy your videos man
thanks man
Do you have a Facebook page? Id be honored to add you.
Man I can't wait
Is it okay to ahoot arrows from this bow? It says on their website if you shoot there will be no warranty
Follow their instructions for warranty
But yes you can shoot it if you have 2000 grain plus
7:44 Good luck using the Manchu one on horseback.
im glad you source things
Feels like we need to hit the gym before holding this bow
Where do you shoot the video? That winter, that summer.
Didn't realise you guys were from Toronto. I have been shooting in that range :)
Bro I want a heavier bow than my #60 and this one looks awesome..
Hello. I'm Yong from Indonesia. I really admire you master heavy bows, you are so strong, you are amazing..
Would you like some tips for me, how to master a heavy bow..? & what exercises to do..?
Thank you very much..🙏
Broo. U r funny 🤣
Love the video. Please drop a link where I can checkout the bow
www.alibowshop.com/
beefy manchu man
Un truc de malade.... En faisant ce genre de connerie, je me suis déboité la clavicule !
soon or later I will buy a true manchu bow from 意在的外
awesome
It could be a bow for shooting! 海兰察用的弓比这个还硬
3:08 hold the snacks i´m doing a video
Nice but that bright red is hideous IMO. lol
3:09 your wife was intimidated by the sheer strength of the bow and backed of. Based bow
my ex
@@HistoricalWeapons bruh...
I would love to shoot a heavy bow like that.
Hi jack, do you know how heavy (draw weight) were historical mongol bows?
read this www.manchuarchery.org/historical-draw-weights-qing-bows. note that it is harder to draw a bow on horseback so slightly less poundage. 100-120lb bows are common
The heavier Mongol bows could be around the 160s lbs in draw weight. Russian historian George Vernadsky wrote that the Mongols carried two bows around, and at least one of the bows they carried had a pull of ~166 pounds. British historian James Chambers wrote that the Mongols had one bow that had a pull up to 160 lbs. The more common draw weight for horse archers was probably a bit lower than this if we use historical examples from medieval China. The Song Dynasty (10th to 13th cent. AD) archery exams involved draw weights of 160lbs for infantry archers and 120lbs for cavalry archers to become first class archers. To become second class archers, they had to shoot bows of 148 lbs for infantry, and 104 lbs for cavalry. A mounted archer received 5 points for hitting a target with a 134 lb bow, 4 points with a 119 lb bow, 3 points with a 104 lb bow. [Source: p. 248-250 of Chinese Archery by Stephen Selby]
@@mdstmouse7 I will add that your link is talking about Qing Dynasty Manchurian bows in the 1700s (a period when archery was in decline), so we need to be cautious in extrapolating this to the average draw weight of Mongol bows from 4-5 centuries earlier when battlefield archery was a more important skill. I think a closer example of what the Mongols had would be Song Dynasty records talking about archery exams that used bows of 160 lb for infantry and 120 lbs for horse archers (and 134 lb bows for horse archers getting the maximum amount of points in the exams). The Mongols would likely have had comparable or better archers than the Song Dynasty.
Just by reading the comments I gotta ask how did they pull those bows, we can aee in the video that he is having a lot of trouble with this one, so to pull it constantly in a fight doesnt seem effective much, i doubt its possible to aim even
in my opinion most of the mongols would of shot under 100lbs for practical combat on horse. most of their enemies were not fully armoured and the select few that are can be isolated in the end.
wonder how common a Manchu archer gave them selves hernias or pulled their muscles XD
The best exercise to strengthen the arch is the inverted crucifix with dumbbells
What is the point 👉
What is a Chinese archery exam?
holy fuck that 145lbs bow tho
bro has leviathan’s breath
That's a beautiful bow, where can we get them?
Your a beast,, the bow 🏹 is imperial strength
Fiberglass??
To heavy unless you practice practice as a child
7:32 元DESIGN！！！
Is this the one from aliexpress?
no, alibow
wow
1:05 ! !
that is some disgusting poundage
Hi, do you know if It's possible to hunt deer with a bow that can shoot an arrow at 140FPS?
depends on weight of arrow. javelins were thrown at much much lower speed but they are heavier
As long as the arrow is heavy enough, over 500 grains you should be ok at close range
I'm sorry but the screaming gets me every time lol 🤣
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
where can i get this bow?
alibow
strong manchu man
thic boi
strong man
Thanks !
Price and from where you buying them?
u can get this at alibow website , send them a message saying i want the bow from jack fang from historical archery
@@HistoricalWeapons Thanks
Sir price
are u in north america? i sell for 250usd+shipping
Sir i am pakistan
Hola . Por favor sub título en español. Gracias
Este es un arco de fuerza imperial personalizado, el arco más pesado que puedes comprar en Alibow. Pedí siyahs extendidos para que parezca más manchú y una longitud de dibujo más larga. Se encontró que el arco pesa 145lbs@33.4 ". Lo que hace que este arco tradicional sea especial es que el peso de tracción inicial es muy alto, en comparación con mi coartada de piel de cerdo húngara, que tiene un peso de tracción final similar. Creo que la curva de tracción de fuerza es más cercano a un arco manchú de tendón de cuerno real que la mayoría de los otros diseños, debido a los inmensos siyahs.
Estos arcos se basan en arcos de fuerza del examen marcial imperial en la dinastía Qing de China. Se pidió a los participantes de estos exámenes que dibujaran estos arcos al máximo como parte de la prueba de su fuerza y técnica. (Los otros sujetos evaluados fueron tiro con arco a pie, tiro con arco a caballo y levantamiento de pesas).
Basado en esta fuente de 1896 sobre los exámenes de tiro con arco imperial de la dinastía Qing: "Los ejercicios gimnásticos fueron una prueba de la fuerza física de los candidatos. Una de estas pruebas se llevó a cabo con arcos especiales conocidos como 'arcos numerados'. Estos arcos eran extraordinariamente grandes y pesados . Sus tamaños estándar - No. 1, No. 2 y No. 3 - eran 12, 10 y 8 "li" respectivamente (70,8 kg, 59 kg y 47,2 kg) Estos 'arcos numerados' nunca fueron pensados para disparar flechas. los
El candidato se paró ante el Presidente con una reverencia (generalmente el No. 1 con 70,8 kg) sostenido en el centro en su mano izquierda. Extendía el brazo izquierdo, tomaba la cuerda con la derecha y la sacaba por completo (agarrando la cuerda con el puño completo, sin flecha). Entonces, lo dejaría caer de nuevo inmediatamente. Tuvo que realizar esta acción tres veces, y luego anunciar su propio nombre y arrodillarse ante el oficial que preside ". ------------ Fuente: Le P. Etienne Zie (Siu) SJ "Pratique des Examens Militaires en Chine", Shanghai: Varietes Smologiques No. 9. 1896.
能拉开这张弓的人很不简单，赞！
xiexie
damn dude i wish you would stop making these irresponsible videos where you show yourself straining and grunting with terrible form, likely encouraging other people to try this and seriously hurt themselves. there's a responsible way to train up to drawing war bows, and it takes years and years to get to where you can shoot 100+ pounds in a controlled, safe manner. i've said this before and I'll say it again, Justin Ma is a great resource and for anyone interested in shooting heavy poundage bows, hes an example of how to do it in a safe and responsible way
I don't make archery instruction videos anymore. I simply do what I enjoy and post my videos. My videos are restricted for kids so if you are 18+ it is your own responsibility to determine what is best for you. I don't encouage others to pull weights that I do. This video is not titled “how to pull a war bow”
Nice videos man
Credit for passion, but not much sense to have such heavy bow and struggle to pull it. Thanks for sharing though.
this is a workout bow to struggle and build muscle
Gotta use it till he dosnt struggle anymore. It's called strength training bruh
nice
ok
Yea
Where can I buy this ?
im selling mine 300 usd
@@HistoricalWeapons Oo..Ok...do you send to Malaysia Kuala Lumpur or FB or any link that I can have a look before order ?
@@davidlimcs168 I can ship these but it’s probably 100 usd
That skydraw... Hope the field is long lol.
Yes it is and those arrows are around 1500 grain
fast
Given my years of experience playing video games I suggest you work on some dexterity exercises for your fingers since everyone knows that bows are a dex based weapon. You can totally dump your str stat and be just fine.
Lol
Rofl 🤣
Rpg game developers never shot heavy bows before, have been lying that archers have no Str at all and dump everything into Dex. I feel cheated 😕
I want to purchase this really really really really really really I want purchase this book please tell us price and please tell shop name
Alibow
@@HistoricalWeapons please tell us this bow rate I want to be a purchase I am interested really interested
@@HistoricalWeapons please tell tell us shop name I want to be a purchase this bow really really purchase shop name I want to be a purchase this bow
Please please tell us shop name I want to purchase this bow @@HistoricalWeapons
@@AchalRao-vs7xs alibow