The way you brought to light the competitive issue of dbd in the last 3 minutes was articulated very well. I agree that if people are dissatisfied with the current games RNG and various game elements, they should move to something else to satisfy their need to win/competitive urge. It sucks that dbd is now slowly transitioning to a more competitive focused game where simply enjoying the gameplay loop is becoming more non-existent.
Solution : Dual Lobbies. Comp Lobbies with MMR on. Casual Lobbies with MMR off. Problem solved. You're welcome Behavior. [Copied from my comment in previous video] I would be interested to see how many players gravitate to Comp Lobbies and how many to Casual Lobbies. Maybe people will migrate between the 2 regularly depending o their mood.
I want fun over competitive. I joined in 2017 when urban evasion was commonly used to hide between each object to the next while avoiding the killer. Was it boring? Nah, it was very tense with the terror radius getting closer and closer but those times are well gone. I admire the loops and plays killer and survivors do, I do NOT however, enjoy seeing the same perks over and over again to win the games. It's our own fault for putting winning in the place of fun and now we're feeling the results of this. We sacrificed our fun for ego and wanting to win. Until both ends are met equally (win and fun) the game will always feel stale. Fun is subjective but I highly doubt a single soul finds it fun to bring the same perks over and over and hold W to a corner or holding M1.
The final portion of this video is spot on. The creep for competitive focused gameplay is ruining what is at its core a casual game with a casual player base. This competitive mindset within the community is going to be the death of this game or at least one of the contributing factors.
The core issues with DBD in my opinion is that the game is struggling to find a balance of "competitive" and "casual", along with the fact that Nurse exists, which means alot of the game has to be balanced around her existence, which means that half the Killer cast will never get the same numbers as her.
Could not have said it better myself. I like to see what my "team" mates are doing. But I liked the chaos and loosing is a fun part of the game, or at least was.
As a serial SoloQ, I gave the 6.5.0 PTB a try. I think the effect of these icons is greatly overstated. Seeing these icons doesn't magically make a SoloQ care about their teammates. It could even make survivors more toxic to each other. "Rebecca started the game by opening 2 chests. I'm going to let her die on the hook." I don't expect perfect balance between killers and survivors in DbD, it is asymmetrical after all. But what I do expect is balance between perks and maps. Slowdown perks should be balanced with each other so killers have more options rather than choosing whichever perks BHVR have chosen to be meta currently. The meta is so much better than every other tactic available, everyone knows what it is and everyone expects it. That's why DbD is so stale.
it's too early to say whether or not the PTB changes are overstated. we're currently in the honeymoon phase of these changes and that's usually the time where everyone is like "Oh this is awesome, yay" without giving it the appropriate time to see how it affects the game itself. this happened with the big perk rework, everyone thought dead hard was completely destroyed during that PTB, but now it's known that it's featured in basically every other survivor's main build. i personally think that thehotcross' outlook is extremely reasonable, especially since it discusses the game more from a feely standpoint than a particularly objective one for the most part.
I think you underestimate these icons… most of the solo q games fail because someone didn’t get unhooked because everybody thought someone is gonna do it and nobody did… if I see Dwight and New on gens and I am healthy I know it’s my job and it won’t happen.
@@mabitzz9484 The number of times I had kindred equipped and still got left on hook to hit stage 2 if not outright croak tells me these new icons will be vaguely useful once in a while and nothing more.
Honestly, I like the chaos but can understand why balance is still needed. Something unexpectedly stopping you in your tracks can be a pleasant surprise, but when that thing is incredibly strong and destroys you with no chance for counterplay it can make that chaos not seem fun but feel unfair. Keeping the game somewhat random to make it not feel stale is great, but having some balance to ensure both sides can have fun without needing to drastically change how you play is what I want. Great video as well, keep up the good work!
i want more goofy gamemodes. i know people say a 2v8 mode would be horribly unbalanced but who cares it'd be funny to have pyramid head and michael myers tag team survivors
i dont necesarilly think that the title is the same as what you're talking about, Solo-Que's not overpowered because by comparison to SWF which has always been a thing, it's still harder. but you are right about small innocent looking changes being implemented without consideration for the brand, the feel, or the atmosphere of the game itself. I don't want to be able to know exactly what is happening to my team mates, i just want to hide in a closet because my heartbeat went up even if it's not the optimal thing to do but now i know exactly what the killer is doing and the tension is kind of ruined. the developers need to be careful that their asymmetrical horror game doesn't turn into generator repair simulator.
I do want to play to have fun but I only want to lose with grace. Stuff like close games for both sides and good chases. Not the mind-numbing gen kicking, tunneling and camping you see today. I want to be styled on. Not just... overwhelmed with perks that reset your progress. Now stuff like deadlock is what I like seeing. It just... put you on timeout for a bit with gens. The best direction this game could go in, in my opinion is to rework the perks that reset gen progress and instead just put it on hold so chases can happen.
I really miss Hawkins Laboratory map design, it felt so different from the others, with only Lery's Memorial Institute being close to that unique and specific map, I think we need more diverse maps like these that I mentioned, also I really want a New Mode with 2 Killers Vs 8 survivors with 10 generators, I think this should be at least interesting at the beginning, what do you think? 🤷🏻♂️
@@TheHotCrossEssays We need more diversity in the category of maps, because DBD have many more maps which in my opinion are pretty much the same, and indoor maps are very unique and authentic, because the scare factor it's much more unpredictable and impactful in these indoor maps environments If you ask me.. 🤷🏻♂️
12:35 "If you truly cared about playing a balanced Asymmetrical Horror game you could go play Video Horror Society, an excellently balanced Asym Horror game, but you don't because you weren't good enough to win at that game. You came back to DBD and complain about balance." Wow. Hot Cross. My comment on your previous video was serendipitous. You are still essentially giving a bit of a backhanded compliment to VHS saying the game is wonderfully balanced and still not fun to play. This is what DBD players wanted from VHS though. Many were never interested in VHS really. They just wanted some actual competition for DBD so Behavior would finally listen to the litany of complaints the Community had been having for years. DBD did get "better", by that, more balanced, but the question is did it get more fun? TLDR : VHS was designed as a Balanced, Competitive game where the Teens and the Monsters both have many opportunities to take the upper hand and defeat one another. DBD was designed as a Party game that was supposed to be unbalanced and over the years more and more Perks and tweaks have been added to make the game more balanced and competitive. Which approach is better? Solution : Dual Lobbies in both games. Comp and Casual Lobbies in both games. Not doable with VHS at the moment because of the small player base, but definitely viable for DBD and likely to be very popular.
Most of the chaos I enjoy in dbd comes from insta down perks or blood warden plays. I just want solo queue to feel less punishing and I think this is the best way to convey simple information. Hopefully it means I don't have to die on first hook as much because two people are on gens while the other teammate is in chase. Also I like that if I see my solo team is efficient with gens I can get some challenges done without it hindering the team as much and possibly give the killer a bit of a break from the gen rush.
Just now, I realized how swf can also bypass mmr. As it doesn’t matter how many times one dies as they can play every game with optimal friends every time. As for I want as a casual solo surv, I want a point deduction for tunneling and camping as it’s still very easy for killers to ruin someone day by doing it. It’s crazy how good these mean tactics work against solos.
TL;DR: BHVR has one of the worse SBMM systems I have ever seen. Just to give an example, some members of the community have spoken to the hack creators for the game. They gave us a few really interesting pieces of information. First, 'high mmr' isn't real. Everyone from 1600 mmr to 3000 mmr can all play with each other. Basically making mmr the same as old ranking, except it only takes into account kills not getting iri emblems. Second, the highest level killers tended to be at the soft cap of 2000, the highest level SWFs go above that. Finally, realize how pointless the second point is because those people play against people well below them just within their own bracket. Thus their skill isn't actually being tested against equal opponents, and vica versa for the poor soul/s that go against them. Thus one person gets inflated mmr and the other gets deflated. That isn't hardly touching the measurement for skill. Overall, the whole system needs a major rework.
On a killer’s perspective, I would very much like to separate solo and swf mmrs like some mobas have but it’s not as easy to make “duos fight duos”, etc. as DBD is Asym. Maaaybe match the swf mmr when pairing with a solo’s mmr and match it to the killer’s? Idk, I’m just a nobody. But also, realize too that my “want” statement kinda indirectly blames not-so-mean killers for tunneling because sometimes it’s the fellow survivors that are throwing(farming hooks(but ultimately lies to the killer to tunnel or not)) but I like killer mains like John(I’m joking) who do tunnel but lets them live at least half of the game because he notices the unskillful play(a good indicator for solo q). But killers/nobody aren’t/isn’t obligated to do that(sorry for the “@mention-bias” lol) Sometimes, killers aren’t the only ones outnumbered.
User Interface which shows the status of Survivors to facilitate Team information and cooperation? I wonder what other Asym has had that feature for over a year now? I joke, but this is why competition is crucial in any space, be it financial, retail, or Asym games. Competition pushes companies to innovate. VHS actually took a look at many of the problems DBD players had and addressed them. 1. Voice Comms for Survivors : Check 2. UI Giving Pictographic Indication of Survivor Action and Status : Check 3. Ping System for Survivor : Check 4. Balanced Gameplay : Check (though people still say Teens are OP or Monster are OP depending on the person) 5. More than 3 Cosmetic Options per Survivor Character Model : Check (Teens have 10 in VHS) 6. Perks Being Bonuses Not Necessities : Check (base kit Monster and base weapon Teens are perfectly viable and competitive) I'm probably missing stuff, but VHS addressed many of the issues DBD players had, and yet it still hasn't found a large player base. Why? Simple. It's a harder game. It demands more practice to get good and Monster is especially hard because of the fact Teens can kill you. But, if someone puts in the practice, the game is absolutely amazing. Both sides are a blast, but playing Monster in the zone, feels truly powerful because the Teens can kill you, but in the zone, with strats on point and execution flowing, you can be an unstoppable force. TLDR : DBD is bringing in UI HUD Status Icons which VHS has had for more than a year. Competition is good, with games pushing each other to get better. VHS is harder than DBD, but very rewarding when sufficient practice is put in.
I'm a iri 1 killer, and It doesnt make sense camping and tunneling. It's just a waste of bloodpoints, the secret to become a good killer is let survivors unhook and heal always. This way you will chase more and learn more about your killer
I've been saying that the player base literally only cares about winning anymore. Win win win above all else. Its a shame really. Because when you really think about it all of us gamers only love video games so much because it's fun. Win or lose it's fun. But more an more people don't care about fun as much as they do "winning " but when our favorite games continue to die because of it... welll... we can only blame ourselves
I want the game to be in a place where casual and competitive isn't decided by perks and an environment with a real ranking system akin to other games that way if you wanna play casual then play casual if you wanna rank up do your best you can do it
Personally, I don't see a problem with the game creeping towards a competitive state. People enjoy competitive games and some people don't, and it is what it is. I enjoy competitive games but I get my competitive fixes in other games. DBD, for me, is a very casual game. I don't like feeling like I have to try my absolute hardest to "win" in a game of DBD but the solo Q buffs being bad for the game is a very bad take imo. Survivor players are the majority of the player-base. That's not really a surprise as its a 4:1 role. Because of this, BHVR does actually need to focus on making survivor players happy. Killers tend to complain the MOST about SWFs in any capacity. Because of this BHVR is obviously enacting a multi-step plan to help combat that. First, bring solo Q up to a SWFs level of gameplay (or closer to it), then buff the weaker killers that will struggle with SWF, then change killers & perks accordingly. This is ultimately good for the game. Making every killer "viable" will help killer players feel less frustrated and keep them playing longer because of how fewer players there are for the killer role. Also, balance isn't just a "competitive" thing. Balancing in video games is more about an "equal opportunity" style than a "competitive" style game. The whole argument of "DBD shouldn't be a competitive game" is honestly stupid because people can always play a game how they enjoy. If you're not a very competitive person, said balance changes REALLY shouldn't affect you if you're truly playing the game casually and not caring about winning. There's a theory, based on trickle-down economics, called "Trickle-Down Balancing". Basically, if a given object or item in a game is balanced for the highest skill level currently available in the game, it should be balanced for every skill level below that. As well as balancing and making changes that only affect how said top skill level is using and abusing those assets. People like to play games to win and people like to play games to relax and be a vegetable.
These new solo queue buffs have been wanted for quite some time. I am hoping they buff killers to compensate for all of this additional free information that solo's will be getting. As a solo queue player, I am both excited and fearful of these new changes. The new info will be nice for coordination purposes and balancing reasons. But I am legit worried that more competitive players may get extremely toxic if they don't see teammates doing objectives like gens/saves/chase. I imagine the harassment and sabotage will increase as I already see teammates give up on first hook if they don't see at least 2 teammates on gens when they get hooked. I am sure teammates will get berated for trying to do tomes/challenges like open X chests/cleanse X totems ect. I love dbd but the playerbase can be a bit much at times. I hope that BHVR implements some type of endorsement system to encourage more sportsmanship/positivity in the near future!
I like to see my teammates on gens but that’s not why I’d suicide on first hook, it’s the just standing or crouching assessments for 20 seconds that pushes me. No totems, no chests, no gens, no chase…just wasting time contributing nothing to the team. It happens so often, while I’m running kindred, when the killer isn’t camping, that it’s become unbearable to play. Either that or I’m hard tunneled out of the game first thing and there’s no amount of information that’ll prevent that strategy. I’m a Dwight main p.41? Anytime I play him I usually get tunneled out, I’m having to play other survivors to avoid this but the MMR matches me with newbies that abandon me. I had an Ada teammate, hiding in a nearby locker where I went down, come out of the locker that was right behind the hook, literally right next to me, just run to the otherwise of the map because she was on death hook, abandoned me only to go down because her scratch marks l’arête the killer. Then the Leon that I saved and healed twice earlier in the game just went in a locker, only to come out and crouch around in circles to avoid crows. I just can’t imagine that this buff will prevent this from happening again.
@@epiccgamingtv I totally feel for you, I don't give up on hook unless it's to give my teammate a chance at hatch. It sounds like what you are describing is "elo hell" hard to climb out of without some help. I'm guessing I'm somewhere in the middle with average players as most of my teammates are generally pretty solid. It's super rare for me to see teammates not do anything, or get left behind on first hook, ect. They are just very competitive and can be a little spicy post game lol
Really interesting video as always Gary! Been thinking about it since yesterday and decided to add my two cents to the discussion. Obviously you talked about the fact that player opinion is driving these changes to the game, and that perhaps players aren't sure what they want, but what would you say the impact of the devs is/could be on how competitive or casual the game is? Because I think there is definitely an impact there in terms of the devs having the ability to endorse and permit certain playstyles over others - you point to MMR in the video as a point where the game started to become more competitive, which I do have to be honest here and say I started playing after MMR was introduced so I'm not sure how many people were requesting more balanced game matchups before it's introduction, but that does seem to be an example of the devs making an change to the game that encouraged a certain playstyle. More specifically there's the fact that time and again the devs have said that camping and tunnelling are legit ways to play the game. Which, obviously there's a lot of room for discussion about whether they're FUN ways to play, or whether they're necessary to win consistently as killer, but I think it's obvious that, ignoring those questions, it does mean that regardless of our personal feelings on them the devs have given them official endorsement as a valid way to play - how many players would still camp and tunnel if the devs instead made an official statement discouraging it/made it outright bannable. (not saying that I think they SHOULD do either, just that I think it would definitely shift opinion on those strategies). I think dbd's big problem is that it was the first game in a new genre of game to become a big hit, people definitely didn't have any idea what was fun/weak/strong etc when it first dropped and its whole lifespan has been a cycle of players finding new ways to use the tools the game provides, and then the devs either endorsing those (such as with the shift from stealth focus to looping focus) or blocking them (the removal of deadhard for distance). All that to say, if dbd is meant to have a more casual focus (and I'm curious what the devs would say if explicitly asked if they want dbd to be a comp game or a party game), how much of an impact would it be possible for the devs to have on introducing new mechanics that are intended to be fun: 2v8 gamemodes, a random perk/build button in lobbies, new perks having a focus on doing neat or fun things rather than on being strong or useful, bp or iri shard incentives for using non meta, turning off mmr or adding a casual mmrless queue mode, using their official outreach via twitter to say ask players about their experiences getting value from perks like dark devotion or deception/diversion, etc? At the end of the day, just looking over these comments is enough to show that no two players have fun in the game the same way, and no change is going to please everyone. I think the devs definitely need to decide who their target audience is and make it explicit by coming out and saying if they intend for dbd to be more focused on being a competitive game or a casual party game; at least that way we'll all know where we stand. Whichever they pick, they're going to lose players, but I honestly think it'd be healthier for the game in the long run to pick an audience, tank the player loss now, and then work on pleasing that remaining audience rather than trying to make everyone happy and instead pleasing no one.
I welcome the UI information buff as a solo surv, because it dampens the most unpredictable and potentially harmful RNG of the game: teammates. Map and layout RNG won't differ during the trial, but your teammates' actions can surely change for better or worse. As of today, your decision making in solo que relies on a coin toss. Did Jane recover on the ground so I can pick her up fast or she gave up and went afk? Will we have gen pressure if I run to the other side of the map for an unhook? Of course, I could bring 2-3 information perks to make beneficial decisions, but then the game becomes stale increasingly fast because I can switch 1-2 perks to spice up my playstyle. With the UI info buff, I can have a wider freedom to pick my perks without sacrificing my value as a team player.
For me. Dbd should be balanced around soloq. Balance and asymetry can be tied, but i dont need perfectly balanced game, just to not make something totally op. But. Dbd could have two modes: Solo mode, game would be balanced around it, ano no groups are allowed. Swf mode for everyone. In swf mode killer would be much weaker due to balance over soloq, so swfs will be more powerfull. But this means less killers will play here, and hopefully balance would be maintained.
It's great that there are more asymmetrical horror games out there. But I do think it's important to remember that not all games are available on every platform. VHS could be a dream come true for plenty of dbd players. However, if you don't play on PC then you don't have a chance to play most other asymmetrical horror games. As far as I know, the only other multi-player horror game available across all platforms is Friday the 13th (rip).
Dbd really isnt that hard when you think about it. Its a lot of learning and memorizing but overall every bit of gameplay is actually quite simple in terms of input. Basically have good reaction time and know how to a draw an efficient path to a goal and youre at least "Average" skill level. Hopefully DBD notices that another game has the balance thing down, and leans into being asymmetrical and casual again. Obviously some people will think theyre going backwards but if theyre tied up the only way to loosen a knot is to start undoing it.
Yeah I agree, the skill ceiling in DbD for survivor play and most killers is fairly low. Which is a good thing until people take it all a tad too seriously!
As someone who prefers the macro side of the game over chases and what not I get what you're saying I don't want all rng out of the game I still find it fun to me balance for this game isn't what I want I want fir variety too but in 2023 almost any game is going be taken seriously to a degree. Smash is the example I often give as a comparison that I think did it well fir casual and competitive play. I would love a ranked mode is this game personally. As for VHS I was actually good at it the balance was nice and I had fun with it but monster just felt tedious to me not boring. DBD manages to scratch a certain itch for me not sure how tbh. All that being said I do see your point.
Smash is a bad example because Smash actually has the components necessary to allow convenient and consistent separation of different playstyles - for example, competitive players can just turn items off, or only play on specific stages to mitigate uncertainty in outcome, whereas casual players can toggle on and off whichever features they want to ensure they get the most out of their casual party game experience. as long as DBD is not willing to provide this experience customization to players (even custom games lack good feature toggling) i think comparing it to smash bros. only looks at half the picture. if BHVR truly desires DBD to be a competitive game, they need to give the casual players something or the game will just be gatekept by its competitive playerbase. this is why more traditional fighting games like mortal kombat and street fighter are adapting by adding more casual-friendly experiences like big story modes and character customization.
@@Kaius. fair point I guess I'm looking at it more in a narrow scope towards the comparison it's just one if the few games I can think of that has managed to please both audiences, for the most part, most other games just don't and favor one over the other. Once again tho sorry for the bad comparison it's just all I could really think of in the context I was saying.
Didn't know there was a UI update. cant wait for that. Hated feeling like the other person isn't doing anything if there is 2 of us and I'm being chased. I put in the faith they are doing the last gen until I'm downed. flip side I worry that they would feel the same way if they are being chased, maybe running to the last 3 gens for an insight on if I'm doing something. If you put in effort for me I will 100% be doing that last gen, and if it feels hopeless, I will end myself on hook so you can at least live... the UI thing will be great. It'd be smart if they work it as something that doesn't activate in SWF or at least not show you what your swf members are doing but will show what the random is doing. that way it balances a little on that front.. but I don't think this will break the game at all.
Ok but VHS isn't balanced at all? I would argue that VHS player numbers show that the DBD community wants balance. The reason VHS died is that the fucked up marketing and playing monster felt miserable.
The game is more balanced than other asym imo, I think that's why it feels more miserable to play. It will never be truly balanced because it's asymmetrical in nature. The marketing was pretty poor too but it still had an influx of players who have all opted to stop playing it for one reason or another, I suggest it's because it feels more competitive, because it's more balanced.
I want to add that it's probably harder for VHS to obtain/retain new players. I would say most new players want to start with the Teen role to get a general feel for the game. But due to the smaller player base queues aren't great and they may switch to the monster role. New players have a harder time adjusting to the monster role as from what I have seen the game doesn't prepare newer monster players and they kind of have to just dive in blind and they likely lose a lot (limited match making means more likely they will be paired against more experienced teens). This is not a good first impression for a new player and most likely they would leave.
While i do feel the hud changes that give info definitely help solo queue be waaaaay more manageable and brings it closer to swf... I still believe it isn't as powerful and never will be as powerful as swf coms. In coms you can INSTANTLY call out anything and everything from perks to killer to location ect. They just can't implement that much less implement it all so it is INSTANT like to pair with how fast you can just simply say it.
@@TheHotCrossEssays Just have no mmr on QP like every game out there. OW, LOL, Valorant, etc. It is a long standing solution to the problem that definitely helps the issue. Reminder those are fundamentally competitive games, so a more casual game would probably see a more casual base.
Now killers games will be difficult, bcoz when i will play wraith, gf or sadako, there will be no fear on other survivors, they will jump on gen as i chase other survivor, claws will show them whom i m chasing
Sounds like game play and mechanics aren't your priorities then. Therefore balance doesn't really come into your scenario in a significant way. Comes down to comparing apples to oranges.
@@TheHotCrossEssays I guess it’s strange to admit but I kinda did like the mystery of not knowing what was going on when playing survivor by myself. I liked the atmosphere it presented. Some of my best moments of playing survivor is not knowing what killer I’m facing and not knowing what my teammates are doing. So perhaps I don’t want balanced DBD.
For real. People really think VHS is a perfect example for balance, it looks like a 2016 dbd where the killer/monster is only there to complete the match
I think bhvr like gaslighting. Why is there no indicator for whos in a swf in post game? The only thing I can think of is that bhvr likes the gaslighting going on when the playerbase is trying to figure out what went wrong or why it was as sweaty as it was. VS the swfs that like to act like they are in a solo team after stomping on a killer. So now people just default to it must have been a swf. Its dumb
Just jumped on after a few months away 3 team mates DC at 5 gens second game 2 DC first down game 3 amounted to an early DC and we lost 3k turned it off haha 😄 will try again in 5 months solo don't seem over powered
"Hey you know that game where you can get bullied if the survivors are good enough? Well in our game, the bullying is even worse!" Still not gonna play that heap VHS
I've also said this before. the main problem for me as a survivor is out of the Dev's control, because for the most part it is OTHER survivors and time to time killers. most survivors have the mentality of "they aren't in our group, leave them" which is toxic. Sure if I play with a friend I put more on the line for them but I still do that for random's. I constantly rush to try to save someone who is downed or hooked. I run a team focused build as a solo player, and SOMETIMES you can see pre mades appreciate it as they go all out to save or help me, I love that. but allot of them don't care and will leave me or make no effort or just flat out troll. and thats just being as sin as its the majority of what I experience in this game... I get nicer survivors when I give up in killer games
Solo q… op? I main killer, and solo que teams are usually a stomp or at least an easier game, even with lower tier killers. This buff doesn’t even bring them up to par with swf, it just makes solo q slightly less miserable to play as.
Imo "fun" should be prioritized over balance. People who take DbD too seriously say they play to win and that DbD is a competitive game, not realizing that DbD is just an RNG reliant party game played by mainly casual players. It's just their way to boost their ego because they know they would have no chance in an actual competitive game
tbh its four to one in the player base. smarter to please the bigger part of the community than the whiny killers. killers has best informationsperks and best stealth perks. survivors has selfcare and quick and quiet
Ok so this might go wrong but i want another meta shake for survivors or some broken perk like dead HARD,like not exactly the same i mean a new perk that is number 1,the same as killers have eruption,rith now they can do 2 things,either Nerf eruption and all killers meta perks, or make another fun to use survivor perk. Edit:cuz at the end of the day dead hard was a really fun perk to use as a survivor,not so much about killers, but killers can have much more ways to have fun like interesting perks and powers,rith now i feel like playing survivor is just boring
you say the favorite thing about dead by daylight is the uncertainty of the matches you play and you list out many examples such as the tiles, hook spawns, and player skill levels, but in reality only 5 out of the 11 examples you've listed out are actually nearly unpredictable. the ones you are right about being completely unpredictable were initially which killer you're facing, where they are, what perks all players have, where the tiles are and where the hooks will spawn. the other 6 (which map, where the pallets/breakable doors/vaults are, where the basement is and player skill level) are easily influenced by perks and offerings such as windows of opportunity and bloody blueprint / jigsaw piece. as of the player skill level part, use your knowledge and common sense for that. give a rough guess of how good/bad they are by comparing them to you since everyone has their own definition of "skill"
I disagree to a degree, pallets etc not only spawn differently but whether or not they're still there is another factor. You can argue Windows of Opportunity mitigates this but not everyone brings that perk. I think map offerings are one of the worst things in the game admittedly and can spoil that element. Skill levels and playstyles are massively unpredictable, I'm not sure what you mean by this. And I don't always check where basement is. Sometimes you go to shack in a chase, realise its there and rethink your strategy, you don't always know its spawn.
ngl kind of a bad take. Uncertainty might be a part of DBD but that doesn't mean that all uncertainty benefits the game feel. I think that's putting aesthetic over game design which isn't always the best thing. For example, people say that the fun part of survivor is looping the killer, but I really think there's an unspoken element of real-time strategy, y'know, when to go for a save, do you heal or push a gen, etc. That broader uncertainty goes against that RTS element of survivor gameplay and removing it can go a long way to making the game more enjoyable on the survivor's ends, and simultaneously can allow for proper reworking on the killer side to accommodate that.
I'm not sure making DbD increasingly calculatable is going to make it more fun. If it becomes more akin to an RTS, I think it'll damage the game. This information is going to hurt stealth killers and perks, which are some of the most enjoyable moments and horror like the game is able to produce so. But time will tell eh!
You are saying that the killers will resolve more into camping and gen kicking what they all already are doing. In europe 95% of my games play out like this. It wont make a difference. Not even in the slightest.
"Now time for a blunt opinion" Is that what we're calling it nowadays? I can't believe that the way you decided to cap off 10+ minutes of reasonable discussion was by turning around, dropping your pants and hitting us with the old 'if you don't agree with me, you must just be bad at games' chestnut. I mean, your earlier analysis certainly had some... interesting elements. Just to pick an example, balanced and symmetrical are not even close to being synonymous. It was relatively respectful and reasonable though. I suspect you know that your take isn't going to be the most popular, since you went out of your way to acknowledge that some balance changes were good and made the game more fair, even if you walked that back shortly thereafter to 'every pro-balamce change in recent memory has made the game worse'. Hey here's a thought that I think might hold up a bit better than saying everyone who disagrees with me sucks; I payed money for DBD, same as you. If the majority of players, who presumably also spent money on purchasing this game, want things to be a little more fair, and want solo queue to be a little less horrible, maybe our opinions should hold some weight too. Just a thought.
It wasn't so much, "you're bad at games" it's, if you choose DbD as your game to be competitive in to boost your ego, then you're bad at competitive games to me. I don't know what I walked back exactly, some balance changes were good for the game, but, in my opinion, many of the recent changes, feel like have made the game more stale. And your opinion does hold weight, my point is, I'm not sure people know what they want, seeing as every balance update has left everyone complaining about the game almost each and every time, especially about game balance even though most updates have made the game more balanced. But yeah, this video is my opinion so, sorry you didn't appreciate it but thanks for the feedback!
So,,, your idea of helping this game is to leave it in its current state where solo q is seven shades of hell to play because if not killers will then need a buff more than what they already got in the meta shake up update, really? Unequivocally, killers received a decent buff in the meta shake up update which made solo q even worse. You actually think solo q is an okay state right now?
@@TheHotCrossEssays I look forward to it because killers did receive a pretty decent buff in the meta shake up update which has caused solo q to be even worse. I just wish the same kind of "limitation to buffing" thing would have been included in that meta shakeup which almost everyone doesn't deny was killer-sided.
you can`t seperate Solo q and SWF! SWF got this buff, too! And yes, they nade an already surv biased game more surv biased like in every update in the past 3 years except the big one and even there some surv stuff got massive buffs, too... #meh
Well the buff doesn't really affect SWF gameplay, they already had the information. I'm not sure I'd describe DbD as a survivor sided game prior to this update, but SWF itself definitely has had the advantage. So perhaps with this update they can better balance killer gameplay against survivor as a whole?
@@TheHotCrossEssays "I'm not sure I'd describe DbD as a survivor sided game prior to this update," sure you dont! That is why i dislike you! You people live in another reality!
@@FUFUCarnagerap Respectfully, as a 1000+ hour 50/50 player, please cut it out. This game is frustrating for both sides and that’s the honest truth. No side has it worse or better than the other. This mindset is causing a divide, and in turn, toxicity.
The way you brought to light the competitive issue of dbd in the last 3 minutes was articulated very well. I agree that if people are dissatisfied with the current games RNG and various game elements, they should move to something else to satisfy their need to win/competitive urge. It sucks that dbd is now slowly transitioning to a more competitive focused game where simply enjoying the gameplay loop is becoming more non-existent.
Solution : Dual Lobbies.
Comp Lobbies with MMR on.
Casual Lobbies with MMR off.
Problem solved.
You're welcome Behavior.
[Copied from my comment in previous video]
I would be interested to see how many players gravitate to Comp Lobbies and how many to Casual Lobbies. Maybe people will migrate between the 2 regularly depending o their mood.
I want fun over competitive. I joined in 2017 when urban evasion was commonly used to hide between each object to the next while avoiding the killer. Was it boring? Nah, it was very tense with the terror radius getting closer and closer but those times are well gone. I admire the loops and plays killer and survivors do, I do NOT however, enjoy seeing the same perks over and over again to win the games. It's our own fault for putting winning in the place of fun and now we're feeling the results of this. We sacrificed our fun for ego and wanting to win. Until both ends are met equally (win and fun) the game will always feel stale. Fun is subjective but I highly doubt a single soul finds it fun to bring the same perks over and over and hold W to a corner or holding M1.
The final portion of this video is spot on. The creep for competitive focused gameplay is ruining what is at its core a casual game with a casual player base. This competitive mindset within the community is going to be the death of this game or at least one of the contributing factors.
The core issues with DBD in my opinion is that the game is struggling to find a balance of "competitive" and "casual", along with the fact that Nurse exists, which means alot of the game has to be balanced around her existence, which means that half the Killer cast will never get the same numbers as her.
Could not have said it better myself. I like to see what my "team" mates are doing. But I liked the chaos and loosing is a fun part of the game, or at least was.
As a serial SoloQ, I gave the 6.5.0 PTB a try. I think the effect of these icons is greatly overstated. Seeing these icons doesn't magically make a SoloQ care about their teammates. It could even make survivors more toxic to each other. "Rebecca started the game by opening 2 chests. I'm going to let her die on the hook."
I don't expect perfect balance between killers and survivors in DbD, it is asymmetrical after all. But what I do expect is balance between perks and maps. Slowdown perks should be balanced with each other so killers have more options rather than choosing whichever perks BHVR have chosen to be meta currently. The meta is so much better than every other tactic available, everyone knows what it is and everyone expects it. That's why DbD is so stale.
it's too early to say whether or not the PTB changes are overstated. we're currently in the honeymoon phase of these changes and that's usually the time where everyone is like "Oh this is awesome, yay" without giving it the appropriate time to see how it affects the game itself. this happened with the big perk rework, everyone thought dead hard was completely destroyed during that PTB, but now it's known that it's featured in basically every other survivor's main build.
i personally think that thehotcross' outlook is extremely reasonable, especially since it discusses the game more from a feely standpoint than a particularly objective one for the most part.
I think you underestimate these icons… most of the solo q games fail because someone didn’t get unhooked because everybody thought someone is gonna do it and nobody did… if I see Dwight and New on gens and I am healthy I know it’s my job and it won’t happen.
@@mabitzz9484 The number of times I had kindred equipped and still got left on hook to hit stage 2 if not outright croak tells me these new icons will be vaguely useful once in a while and nothing more.
I feel like this will help balance the game if the gap between solo q and survive with friends is much closer.
Honestly, I like the chaos but can understand why balance is still needed. Something unexpectedly stopping you in your tracks can be a pleasant surprise, but when that thing is incredibly strong and destroys you with no chance for counterplay it can make that chaos not seem fun but feel unfair. Keeping the game somewhat random to make it not feel stale is great, but having some balance to ensure both sides can have fun without needing to drastically change how you play is what I want.
Great video as well, keep up the good work!
I do prefer the lack of communication. It’s fun and chaotic! It’s a horror game I want it to be weird!
i want more goofy gamemodes. i know people say a 2v8 mode would be horribly unbalanced but who cares it'd be funny to have pyramid head and michael myers tag team survivors
a mode where all perks are random would also be a lot of fun
i dont necesarilly think that the title is the same as what you're talking about, Solo-Que's not overpowered because by comparison to SWF which has always been a thing, it's still harder. but you are right about small innocent looking changes being implemented without consideration for the brand, the feel, or the atmosphere of the game itself. I don't want to be able to know exactly what is happening to my team mates, i just want to hide in a closet because my heartbeat went up even if it's not the optimal thing to do but now i know exactly what the killer is doing and the tension is kind of ruined. the developers need to be careful that their asymmetrical horror game doesn't turn into generator repair simulator.
I love the shade Gary throws at the people that want DBD to be more competitive because they aren't good at the already balanced competitive games.
I do want to play to have fun but I only want to lose with grace. Stuff like close games for both sides and good chases. Not the mind-numbing gen kicking, tunneling and camping you see today. I want to be styled on. Not just... overwhelmed with perks that reset your progress. Now stuff like deadlock is what I like seeing. It just... put you on timeout for a bit with gens. The best direction this game could go in, in my opinion is to rework the perks that reset gen progress and instead just put it on hold so chases can happen.
I really miss Hawkins Laboratory map design, it felt so different from the others, with only Lery's Memorial Institute being close to that unique and specific map, I think we need more diverse maps like these that I mentioned, also I really want a New Mode with 2 Killers Vs 8 survivors with 10 generators, I think this should be at least interesting at the beginning, what do you think? 🤷🏻♂️
Honestly, I miss Hawkins too! Maybe one day we'll see a map like it again!
@@TheHotCrossEssays We need more diversity in the category of maps, because DBD have many more maps which in my opinion are pretty much the same, and indoor maps are very unique and authentic, because the scare factor it's much more unpredictable and impactful in these indoor maps environments If you ask me.. 🤷🏻♂️
12:35 "If you truly cared about playing a balanced Asymmetrical Horror game you could go play Video Horror Society, an excellently balanced Asym Horror game, but you don't because you weren't good enough to win at that game. You came back to DBD and complain about balance."
Wow. Hot Cross. My comment on your previous video was serendipitous. You are still essentially giving a bit of a backhanded compliment to VHS saying the game is wonderfully balanced and still not fun to play.
This is what DBD players wanted from VHS though. Many were never interested in VHS really. They just wanted some actual competition for DBD so Behavior would finally listen to the litany of complaints the Community had been having for years. DBD did get "better", by that, more balanced, but the question is did it get more fun?
TLDR : VHS was designed as a Balanced, Competitive game where the Teens and the Monsters both have many opportunities to take the upper hand and defeat one another. DBD was designed as a Party game that was supposed to be unbalanced and over the years more and more Perks and tweaks have been added to make the game more balanced and competitive.
Which approach is better?
Solution : Dual Lobbies in both games.
Comp and Casual Lobbies in both games.
Not doable with VHS at the moment because of the small player base, but definitely viable for DBD and likely to be very popular.
Most of the chaos I enjoy in dbd comes from insta down perks or blood warden plays. I just want solo queue to feel less punishing and I think this is the best way to convey simple information. Hopefully it means I don't have to die on first hook as much because two people are on gens while the other teammate is in chase. Also I like that if I see my solo team is efficient with gens I can get some challenges done without it hindering the team as much and possibly give the killer a bit of a break from the gen rush.
This video can be summarized in this sentence "if you want balance go play VHS 4head"
I just want the demogorgon back or some other creature type killers
12:17 the tea is scaldiiiiiiiiing
Just now, I realized how swf can also bypass mmr. As it doesn’t matter how many times one dies as they can play every game with optimal friends every time.
As for I want as a casual solo surv, I want a point deduction for tunneling and camping as it’s still very easy for killers to ruin someone day by doing it. It’s crazy how good these mean tactics work against solos.
That's a really good point! I hadn't really thought about how MMR can be kind of meaningless with a SWF!
TL;DR: BHVR has one of the worse SBMM systems I have ever seen.
Just to give an example, some members of the community have spoken to the hack creators for the game. They gave us a few really interesting pieces of information.
First, 'high mmr' isn't real. Everyone from 1600 mmr to 3000 mmr can all play with each other. Basically making mmr the same as old ranking, except it only takes into account kills not getting iri emblems.
Second, the highest level killers tended to be at the soft cap of 2000, the highest level SWFs go above that.
Finally, realize how pointless the second point is because those people play against people well below them just within their own bracket. Thus their skill isn't actually being tested against equal opponents, and vica versa for the poor soul/s that go against them. Thus one person gets inflated mmr and the other gets deflated.
That isn't hardly touching the measurement for skill. Overall, the whole system needs a major rework.
On a killer’s perspective, I would very much like to separate solo and swf mmrs like some mobas have but it’s not as easy to make “duos fight duos”, etc. as DBD is Asym. Maaaybe match the swf mmr when pairing with a solo’s mmr and match it to the killer’s? Idk, I’m just a nobody.
But also, realize too that my “want” statement kinda indirectly blames not-so-mean killers for tunneling because sometimes it’s the fellow survivors that are throwing(farming hooks(but ultimately lies to the killer to tunnel or not))
but I like killer mains like John(I’m joking) who do tunnel but lets them live at least half of the game because he notices the unskillful play(a good indicator for solo q). But killers/nobody aren’t/isn’t obligated to do that(sorry for the “@mention-bias” lol)
Sometimes, killers aren’t the only ones outnumbered.
User Interface which shows the status of Survivors to facilitate Team information and cooperation?
I wonder what other Asym has had that feature for over a year now?
I joke, but this is why competition is crucial in any space, be it financial, retail, or Asym games.
Competition pushes companies to innovate.
VHS actually took a look at many of the problems DBD players had and addressed them.
1. Voice Comms for Survivors : Check
2. UI Giving Pictographic Indication of Survivor Action and Status : Check
3. Ping System for Survivor : Check
4. Balanced Gameplay : Check (though people still say Teens are OP or Monster are OP depending on the person)
5. More than 3 Cosmetic Options per Survivor Character Model : Check (Teens have 10 in VHS)
6. Perks Being Bonuses Not Necessities : Check (base kit Monster and base weapon Teens are perfectly viable and competitive)
I'm probably missing stuff, but VHS addressed many of the issues DBD players had, and yet it still hasn't found a large player base.
Why? Simple. It's a harder game.
It demands more practice to get good and Monster is especially hard because of the fact Teens can kill you.
But, if someone puts in the practice, the game is absolutely amazing.
Both sides are a blast, but playing Monster in the zone, feels truly powerful because the Teens can kill you, but in the zone, with strats on point and execution flowing, you can be an unstoppable force.
TLDR : DBD is bringing in UI HUD Status Icons which VHS has had for more than a year. Competition is good, with games pushing each other to get better. VHS is harder than DBD, but very rewarding when sufficient practice is put in.
If the killer you’re playing against is not brain dead, and your teammates are below average or even average, you almost never escape.
I'm a iri 1 killer, and It doesnt make sense camping and tunneling. It's just a waste of bloodpoints, the secret to become a good killer is let survivors unhook and heal always. This way you will chase more and learn more about your killer
I've been saying that the player base literally only cares about winning anymore. Win win win above all else. Its a shame really. Because when you really think about it all of us gamers only love video games so much because it's fun. Win or lose it's fun. But more an more people don't care about fun as much as they do "winning " but when our favorite games continue to die because of it... welll... we can only blame ourselves
I want the game to be in a place where casual and competitive isn't decided by perks and an environment with a real ranking system akin to other games that way if you wanna play casual then play casual if you wanna rank up do your best you can do it
Personally, I don't see a problem with the game creeping towards a competitive state. People enjoy competitive games and some people don't, and it is what it is. I enjoy competitive games but I get my competitive fixes in other games. DBD, for me, is a very casual game. I don't like feeling like I have to try my absolute hardest to "win" in a game of DBD but the solo Q buffs being bad for the game is a very bad take imo.
Survivor players are the majority of the player-base. That's not really a surprise as its a 4:1 role. Because of this, BHVR does actually need to focus on making survivor players happy. Killers tend to complain the MOST about SWFs in any capacity. Because of this BHVR is obviously enacting a multi-step plan to help combat that. First, bring solo Q up to a SWFs level of gameplay (or closer to it), then buff the weaker killers that will struggle with SWF, then change killers & perks accordingly. This is ultimately good for the game. Making every killer "viable" will help killer players feel less frustrated and keep them playing longer because of how fewer players there are for the killer role.
Also, balance isn't just a "competitive" thing. Balancing in video games is more about an "equal opportunity" style than a "competitive" style game. The whole argument of "DBD shouldn't be a competitive game" is honestly stupid because people can always play a game how they enjoy. If you're not a very competitive person, said balance changes REALLY shouldn't affect you if you're truly playing the game casually and not caring about winning. There's a theory, based on trickle-down economics, called "Trickle-Down Balancing". Basically, if a given object or item in a game is balanced for the highest skill level currently available in the game, it should be balanced for every skill level below that. As well as balancing and making changes that only affect how said top skill level is using and abusing those assets. People like to play games to win and people like to play games to relax and be a vegetable.
These new solo queue buffs have been wanted for quite some time. I am hoping they buff killers to compensate for all of this additional free information that solo's will be getting. As a solo queue player, I am both excited and fearful of these new changes. The new info will be nice for coordination purposes and balancing reasons. But I am legit worried that more competitive players may get extremely toxic if they don't see teammates doing objectives like gens/saves/chase. I imagine the harassment and sabotage will increase as I already see teammates give up on first hook if they don't see at least 2 teammates on gens when they get hooked. I am sure teammates will get berated for trying to do tomes/challenges like open X chests/cleanse X totems ect. I love dbd but the playerbase can be a bit much at times. I hope that BHVR implements some type of endorsement system to encourage more sportsmanship/positivity in the near future!
I like to see my teammates on gens but that’s not why I’d suicide on first hook, it’s the just standing or crouching assessments for 20 seconds that pushes me. No totems, no chests, no gens, no chase…just wasting time contributing nothing to the team. It happens so often, while I’m running kindred, when the killer isn’t camping, that it’s become unbearable to play. Either that or I’m hard tunneled out of the game first thing and there’s no amount of information that’ll prevent that strategy. I’m a Dwight main p.41? Anytime I play him I usually get tunneled out, I’m having to play other survivors to avoid this but the MMR matches me with newbies that abandon me. I had an Ada teammate, hiding in a nearby locker where I went down, come out of the locker that was right behind the hook, literally right next to me, just run to the otherwise of the map because she was on death hook, abandoned me only to go down because her scratch marks l’arête the killer. Then the Leon that I saved and healed twice earlier in the game just went in a locker, only to come out and crouch around in circles to avoid crows. I just can’t imagine that this buff will prevent this from happening again.
@@epiccgamingtv I totally feel for you, I don't give up on hook unless it's to give my teammate a chance at hatch. It sounds like what you are describing is "elo hell" hard to climb out of without some help. I'm guessing I'm somewhere in the middle with average players as most of my teammates are generally pretty solid. It's super rare for me to see teammates not do anything, or get left behind on first hook, ect. They are just very competitive and can be a little spicy post game lol
Really interesting video as always Gary! Been thinking about it since yesterday and decided to add my two cents to the discussion.
Obviously you talked about the fact that player opinion is driving these changes to the game, and that perhaps players aren't sure what they want, but what would you say the impact of the devs is/could be on how competitive or casual the game is? Because I think there is definitely an impact there in terms of the devs having the ability to endorse and permit certain playstyles over others - you point to MMR in the video as a point where the game started to become more competitive, which I do have to be honest here and say I started playing after MMR was introduced so I'm not sure how many people were requesting more balanced game matchups before it's introduction, but that does seem to be an example of the devs making an change to the game that encouraged a certain playstyle.
More specifically there's the fact that time and again the devs have said that camping and tunnelling are legit ways to play the game. Which, obviously there's a lot of room for discussion about whether they're FUN ways to play, or whether they're necessary to win consistently as killer, but I think it's obvious that, ignoring those questions, it does mean that regardless of our personal feelings on them the devs have given them official endorsement as a valid way to play - how many players would still camp and tunnel if the devs instead made an official statement discouraging it/made it outright bannable. (not saying that I think they SHOULD do either, just that I think it would definitely shift opinion on those strategies).
I think dbd's big problem is that it was the first game in a new genre of game to become a big hit, people definitely didn't have any idea what was fun/weak/strong etc when it first dropped and its whole lifespan has been a cycle of players finding new ways to use the tools the game provides, and then the devs either endorsing those (such as with the shift from stealth focus to looping focus) or blocking them (the removal of deadhard for distance).
All that to say, if dbd is meant to have a more casual focus (and I'm curious what the devs would say if explicitly asked if they want dbd to be a comp game or a party game), how much of an impact would it be possible for the devs to have on introducing new mechanics that are intended to be fun: 2v8 gamemodes, a random perk/build button in lobbies, new perks having a focus on doing neat or fun things rather than on being strong or useful, bp or iri shard incentives for using non meta, turning off mmr or adding a casual mmrless queue mode, using their official outreach via twitter to say ask players about their experiences getting value from perks like dark devotion or deception/diversion, etc?
At the end of the day, just looking over these comments is enough to show that no two players have fun in the game the same way, and no change is going to please everyone. I think the devs definitely need to decide who their target audience is and make it explicit by coming out and saying if they intend for dbd to be more focused on being a competitive game or a casual party game; at least that way we'll all know where we stand. Whichever they pick, they're going to lose players, but I honestly think it'd be healthier for the game in the long run to pick an audience, tank the player loss now, and then work on pleasing that remaining audience rather than trying to make everyone happy and instead pleasing no one.
I welcome the UI information buff as a solo surv, because it dampens the most unpredictable and potentially harmful RNG of the game: teammates.
Map and layout RNG won't differ during the trial, but your teammates' actions can surely change for better or worse.
As of today, your decision making in solo que relies on a coin toss.
Did Jane recover on the ground so I can pick her up fast or she gave up and went afk?
Will we have gen pressure if I run to the other side of the map for an unhook?
Of course, I could bring 2-3 information perks to make beneficial decisions, but then the game becomes stale increasingly fast because I can switch 1-2 perks to spice up my playstyle.
With the UI info buff, I can have a wider freedom to pick my perks without sacrificing my value as a team player.
For me. Dbd should be balanced around soloq. Balance and asymetry can be tied, but i dont need perfectly balanced game, just to not make something totally op.
But.
Dbd could have two modes:
Solo mode, game would be balanced around it, ano no groups are allowed.
Swf mode for everyone.
In swf mode killer would be much weaker due to balance over soloq, so swfs will be more powerfull. But this means less killers will play here, and hopefully balance would be maintained.
I wish it was scary again tbh
It's great that there are more asymmetrical horror games out there. But I do think it's important to remember that not all games are available on every platform. VHS could be a dream come true for plenty of dbd players. However, if you don't play on PC then you don't have a chance to play most other asymmetrical horror games. As far as I know, the only other multi-player horror game available across all platforms is Friday the 13th (rip).
Dbd really isnt that hard when you think about it. Its a lot of learning and memorizing but overall every bit of gameplay is actually quite simple in terms of input. Basically have good reaction time and know how to a draw an efficient path to a goal and youre at least "Average" skill level. Hopefully DBD notices that another game has the balance thing down, and leans into being asymmetrical and casual again. Obviously some people will think theyre going backwards but if theyre tied up the only way to loosen a knot is to start undoing it.
Yeah I agree, the skill ceiling in DbD for survivor play and most killers is fairly low. Which is a good thing until people take it all a tad too seriously!
As someone who prefers the macro side of the game over chases and what not I get what you're saying I don't want all rng out of the game I still find it fun to me balance for this game isn't what I want I want fir variety too but in 2023 almost any game is going be taken seriously to a degree. Smash is the example I often give as a comparison that I think did it well fir casual and competitive play. I would love a ranked mode is this game personally. As for VHS I was actually good at it the balance was nice and I had fun with it but monster just felt tedious to me not boring. DBD manages to scratch a certain itch for me not sure how tbh. All that being said I do see your point.
Smash is a bad example because Smash actually has the components necessary to allow convenient and consistent separation of different playstyles - for example, competitive players can just turn items off, or only play on specific stages to mitigate uncertainty in outcome, whereas casual players can toggle on and off whichever features they want to ensure they get the most out of their casual party game experience. as long as DBD is not willing to provide this experience customization to players (even custom games lack good feature toggling) i think comparing it to smash bros. only looks at half the picture.
if BHVR truly desires DBD to be a competitive game, they need to give the casual players something or the game will just be gatekept by its competitive playerbase. this is why more traditional fighting games like mortal kombat and street fighter are adapting by adding more casual-friendly experiences like big story modes and character customization.
@@Kaius. fair point I guess I'm looking at it more in a narrow scope towards the comparison it's just one if the few games I can think of that has managed to please both audiences, for the most part, most other games just don't and favor one over the other. Once again tho sorry for the bad comparison it's just all I could really think of in the context I was saying.
Didn't know there was a UI update. cant wait for that. Hated feeling like the other person isn't doing anything if there is 2 of us and I'm being chased. I put in the faith they are doing the last gen until I'm downed. flip side I worry that they would feel the same way if they are being chased, maybe running to the last 3 gens for an insight on if I'm doing something. If you put in effort for me I will 100% be doing that last gen, and if it feels hopeless, I will end myself on hook so you can at least live... the UI thing will be great. It'd be smart if they work it as something that doesn't activate in SWF or at least not show you what your swf members are doing but will show what the random is doing. that way it balances a little on that front.. but I don't think this will break the game at all.
Ok but VHS isn't balanced at all? I would argue that VHS player numbers show that the DBD community wants balance. The reason VHS died is that the fucked up marketing and playing monster felt miserable.
The game is more balanced than other asym imo, I think that's why it feels more miserable to play. It will never be truly balanced because it's asymmetrical in nature. The marketing was pretty poor too but it still had an influx of players who have all opted to stop playing it for one reason or another, I suggest it's because it feels more competitive, because it's more balanced.
I want to add that it's probably harder for VHS to obtain/retain new players. I would say most new players want to start with the Teen role to get a general feel for the game. But due to the smaller player base queues aren't great and they may switch to the monster role. New players have a harder time adjusting to the monster role as from what I have seen the game doesn't prepare newer monster players and they kind of have to just dive in blind and they likely lose a lot (limited match making means more likely they will be paired against more experienced teens). This is not a good first impression for a new player and most likely they would leave.
While i do feel the hud changes that give info definitely help solo queue be waaaaay more manageable and brings it closer to swf... I still believe it isn't as powerful and never will be as powerful as swf coms. In coms you can INSTANTLY call out anything and everything from perks to killer to location ect. They just can't implement that much less implement it all so it is INSTANT like to pair with how fast you can just simply say it.
Just have a quickplay and ranked mode. Not a total solution but it would help.
It would be interesting to see how it'd split the player base, maybe a no perks casual mode or something?
@@TheHotCrossEssays Just have no mmr on QP like every game out there. OW, LOL, Valorant, etc. It is a long standing solution to the problem that definitely helps the issue. Reminder those are fundamentally competitive games, so a more casual game would probably see a more casual base.
Now killers games will be difficult, bcoz when i will play wraith, gf or sadako, there will be no fear on other survivors, they will jump on gen as i chase other survivor, claws will show them whom i m chasing
This is likely going to hurt stealth killers a lot yeah!
I don’t play VHS because it doesn’t have my favorite licensed characters and it’s not as graphic as DBD. Balance has nothing to do with it.
That's fair enough, but then again, you're probably not someone arguing for DbD to become balanced either?
Sounds like game play and mechanics aren't your priorities then. Therefore balance doesn't really come into your scenario in a significant way. Comes down to comparing apples to oranges.
@@TheHotCrossEssays I guess it’s strange to admit but I kinda did like the mystery of not knowing what was going on when playing survivor by myself. I liked the atmosphere it presented. Some of my best moments of playing survivor is not knowing what killer I’m facing and not knowing what my teammates are doing. So perhaps I don’t want balanced DBD.
do you still have notifications on gary 🧐
(hello)
Be the change you want to see, don't run meta perks, goof around sometimes. It certainly reduces the stress that the game generates
For real. People really think VHS is a perfect example for balance, it looks like a 2016 dbd where the killer/monster is only there to complete the match
I like vhs I just wish the que times were shorter. I'd probably play it more
I think bhvr like gaslighting. Why is there no indicator for whos in a swf in post game? The only thing I can think of is that bhvr likes the gaslighting going on when the playerbase is trying to figure out what went wrong or why it was as sweaty as it was. VS the swfs that like to act like they are in a solo team after stomping on a killer. So now people just default to it must have been a swf. Its dumb
I want to be able to play 2 survivors at the same time
Just jumped on after a few months away 3 team mates DC at 5 gens second game 2 DC first down game 3 amounted to an early DC and we lost 3k turned it off haha 😄 will try again in 5 months solo don't seem over powered
"Hey you know that game where you can get bullied if the survivors are good enough? Well in our game, the bullying is even worse!"
Still not gonna play that heap VHS
Just answering the question before watching. As a solo survivor main. hell no is it over powered... it's still painful and depressing
I've also said this before. the main problem for me as a survivor is out of the Dev's control, because for the most part it is OTHER survivors and time to time killers. most survivors have the mentality of "they aren't in our group, leave them" which is toxic. Sure if I play with a friend I put more on the line for them but I still do that for random's. I constantly rush to try to save someone who is downed or hooked. I run a team focused build as a solo player, and SOMETIMES you can see pre mades appreciate it as they go all out to save or help me, I love that. but allot of them don't care and will leave me or make no effort or just flat out troll. and thats just being as sin as its the majority of what I experience in this game... I get nicer survivors when I give up in killer games
Solo q… op?
I main killer, and solo que teams are usually a stomp or at least an easier game, even with lower tier killers. This buff doesn’t even bring them up to par with swf, it just makes solo q slightly less miserable to play as.
Imo "fun" should be prioritized over balance. People who take DbD too seriously say they play to win and that DbD is a competitive game, not realizing that DbD is just an RNG reliant party game played by mainly casual players. It's just their way to boost their ego because they know they would have no chance in an actual competitive game
tbh its four to one in the player base. smarter to please the bigger part of the community than the whiny killers. killers has best informationsperks and best stealth perks. survivors has selfcare and quick and quiet
Ok so this might go wrong but i want another meta shake for survivors or some broken perk like dead HARD,like not exactly the same i mean a new perk that is number 1,the same as killers have eruption,rith now they can do 2 things,either Nerf eruption and all killers meta perks, or make another fun to use survivor perk. Edit:cuz at the end of the day dead hard was a really fun perk to use as a survivor,not so much about killers, but killers can have much more ways to have fun like interesting perks and powers,rith now i feel like playing survivor is just boring
you say the favorite thing about dead by daylight is the uncertainty of the matches you play and you list out many examples such as the tiles, hook spawns, and player skill levels, but in reality only 5 out of the 11 examples you've listed out are actually nearly unpredictable. the ones you are right about being completely unpredictable were initially which killer you're facing, where they are, what perks all players have, where the tiles are and where the hooks will spawn.
the other 6 (which map, where the pallets/breakable doors/vaults are, where the basement is and player skill level) are easily influenced by perks and offerings such as windows of opportunity and bloody blueprint / jigsaw piece. as of the player skill level part, use your knowledge and common sense for that. give a rough guess of how good/bad they are by comparing them to you since everyone has their own definition of "skill"
I disagree to a degree, pallets etc not only spawn differently but whether or not they're still there is another factor. You can argue Windows of Opportunity mitigates this but not everyone brings that perk. I think map offerings are one of the worst things in the game admittedly and can spoil that element. Skill levels and playstyles are massively unpredictable, I'm not sure what you mean by this. And I don't always check where basement is. Sometimes you go to shack in a chase, realise its there and rethink your strategy, you don't always know its spawn.
This video looks more like a killer main rant than an actual analisis on the soon to be game changes for dbd
Thank you, usually people call me a survivor main for my opinions so this was weirdly vindicating as someone who heavily plays both sides!
@@TheHotCrossEssays Gary's turning into hat man...killer main lol
ngl kind of a bad take. Uncertainty might be a part of DBD but that doesn't mean that all uncertainty benefits the game feel. I think that's putting aesthetic over game design which isn't always the best thing. For example, people say that the fun part of survivor is looping the killer, but I really think there's an unspoken element of real-time strategy, y'know, when to go for a save, do you heal or push a gen, etc. That broader uncertainty goes against that RTS element of survivor gameplay and removing it can go a long way to making the game more enjoyable on the survivor's ends, and simultaneously can allow for proper reworking on the killer side to accommodate that.
I'm not sure making DbD increasingly calculatable is going to make it more fun. If it becomes more akin to an RTS, I think it'll damage the game. This information is going to hurt stealth killers and perks, which are some of the most enjoyable moments and horror like the game is able to produce so. But time will tell eh!
Not sure, i mean, this is like SWF but slightly weaker
The UI is doing nothing for survivors tbh! Just give them base kindred and its fine
You are saying that the killers will resolve more into camping and gen kicking what they all already are doing. In europe 95% of my games play out like this. It wont make a difference. Not even in the slightest.
"Now time for a blunt opinion"
Is that what we're calling it nowadays? I can't believe that the way you decided to cap off 10+ minutes of reasonable discussion was by turning around, dropping your pants and hitting us with the old 'if you don't agree with me, you must just be bad at games' chestnut.
I mean, your earlier analysis certainly had some... interesting elements. Just to pick an example, balanced and symmetrical are not even close to being synonymous. It was relatively respectful and reasonable though. I suspect you know that your take isn't going to be the most popular, since you went out of your way to acknowledge that some balance changes were good and made the game more fair, even if you walked that back shortly thereafter to 'every pro-balamce change in recent memory has made the game worse'.
Hey here's a thought that I think might hold up a bit better than saying everyone who disagrees with me sucks; I payed money for DBD, same as you. If the majority of players, who presumably also spent money on purchasing this game, want things to be a little more fair, and want solo queue to be a little less horrible, maybe our opinions should hold some weight too. Just a thought.
It wasn't so much, "you're bad at games" it's, if you choose DbD as your game to be competitive in to boost your ego, then you're bad at competitive games to me.
I don't know what I walked back exactly, some balance changes were good for the game, but, in my opinion, many of the recent changes, feel like have made the game more stale.
And your opinion does hold weight, my point is, I'm not sure people know what they want, seeing as every balance update has left everyone complaining about the game almost each and every time, especially about game balance even though most updates have made the game more balanced. But yeah, this video is my opinion so, sorry you didn't appreciate it but thanks for the feedback!
So,,, your idea of helping this game is to leave it in its current state where solo q is seven shades of hell to play because if not killers will then need a buff more than what they already got in the meta shake up update, really? Unequivocally, killers received a decent buff in the meta shake up update which made solo q even worse. You actually think solo q is an okay state right now?
No, I just don't think this is the best way to solve the issue. My next video will probably address how I would handle a rebalance though!
@@TheHotCrossEssays I look forward to it because killers did receive a pretty decent buff in the meta shake up update which has caused solo q to be even worse. I just wish the same kind of "limitation to buffing" thing would have been included in that meta shakeup which almost everyone doesn't deny was killer-sided.
Short answer: No
you can`t seperate Solo q and SWF! SWF got this buff, too!
And yes, they nade an already surv biased game more surv biased like in every update in the past 3 years except the big one and even there some surv stuff got massive buffs, too...
#meh
Honestly, its not a SWF buff? All they did is give solo q some info that swf already had
Well the buff doesn't really affect SWF gameplay, they already had the information. I'm not sure I'd describe DbD as a survivor sided game prior to this update, but SWF itself definitely has had the advantage. So perhaps with this update they can better balance killer gameplay against survivor as a whole?
Sanest Tru3 watcher
@@TheHotCrossEssays "I'm not sure I'd describe DbD as a survivor sided game prior to this update," sure you dont! That is why i dislike you! You people live in another reality!
@@FUFUCarnagerap Respectfully, as a 1000+ hour 50/50 player, please cut it out. This game is frustrating for both sides and that’s the honest truth. No side has it worse or better than the other. This mindset is causing a divide, and in turn, toxicity.
Lol