Part 2 Grounding Update: th-cam.com/video/X3QA9T_O1g0/w-d-xo.html Update: this system will never pass an inspection and never needs to. It is Offgrid and there is not a single permit required for connecting a battery to an inverter, and using a couple of panels laying on the ground. People are trying to reference NEC?? Why? This inverter isn't even listed. Sure it's compliant and certified, but it would still fail inspection. And that's fine. I'm not connected to grid (besides back up battery charger which isn't grid tie. It's a battery charger). And I only care about safety and that's it. Original pinned comment: Oh and I'm adding ac supply at the input on it's own breaker today (and programming it to only use the battery charger. Not bypass!). That's why I said it has true earth ground in one of my given examples. When this system is supplied by a true earth ground ac circuit, I do not need to separate the grounds and neutrals on my panel because the transfer switch will be open, and the output of this inverter will not act as a sub panel supply. This is because the input only supplies a battery charger in my configuration. If I am using it as a UPS (which requires programming it as such), and I have a large dedicated breaker supply from my sub panel, (which I will not do), then I will need to separate ground and neutrals. That would make a separate connection, and it is not isolated. When the ATS inside the inverter is connected only to the battery charger, it is isolated. But still susceptible to high voltage if a ground loop was created. If it was not grounded when not connected to ac input, that is fine. There are plenty of standalone systems without grounding. Such as an RV electrical system with inverter when not connected to shore power. Same thing. So it really depends on how you use it. If you are using it not as a solar power system, and instead as a stand-alone UPS, then I could see why you do not want to bond the ground and neutrals at the ac output. But that is the only exception I can think of. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Does off-grid solar confuse you? Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com Join our DIY solar community! #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com Check out my best-selling, beginner-friendly 12V off-grid solar book (affiliate link): amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Solar. Low prices and great warranty, and they can take your entire house offgrid with their new Powerwalls: ts.la/william57509 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first): 12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar and Coupon Codes: -Current Connected: SOK, Victron and High Quality Components. Best prices and warranty around: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp -Signature Solar: Cheap Server Rack Batteries and Large Solar Panels: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Ecoflow Delta Official Site: My favorite plug-n-play solar generator: us.ecoflow.com/?aff=7 -AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around: amperetime.com/products/ampere-time-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Rich Solar: Mega site and cheaper prices than renogy! Check them out: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Shop Solar Kits: Huge site with every solar kit you can imagine! Check it out: shopsolarkits.com/?ref=will-p -Battery Hookup: Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 10% off code: diysolar -Watts 24/7: Best deals on all-in-one solar power systems, with customer support and distribution here in the USA: watts247.com/?wpam_id=3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Contact Information: I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers: Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
Will, are you sure the setting for utility charging vs ups really switches the neutral? A switched neutral tends to be fairly expensive and I’d be surprised if this kind of sophistication is built it. I would have guessed the neutrals (AC in and out) were always bonded to each other. Would be interesting to test this with a multimeter.
I think of a UPS as when the solar/battery is a backup for the grid. The other option - and what I'm thinking of doing in my setup is to have solar/battery as the primary with the grid as the backup. I believe that if I'm doing it in that way that I have to have a dedicated ground for the AC subpanel which is going to be in a solar shed/out-building ... I've slept a time or two since I delved into the NEC looking this stuff up though - I'm going to have to re-read it to remember the details on grounds and panel bonding however.
@@kmil2010 actually some are not. You always need to check. These inverters are for Offgrid use only when not in ups or backfeed mode. They have some inverters that are hybrid, and the connections are obviously different. But yes I should verify with multimeter
It's unfortunate that the National Electrical Code uses the term grounding and grounded. I was a member of the NEC section for many years and there has always been confusion. Many of us believe that the current terminology should be canned and use the terms earthing and bonding to help eliminate confusion. Many other countries use this terminology and it is much simpler.
@@honumoorea873 The metric system is soo much easier than the imperial system. I have a degree in chemistry so I have been using the metric system since the 1950s. It is great. I can't even imagine trying to do scientificl calculations in the imperial format. That being said, the imperial system is so ingrained into our culture that I can't see it being changed in the foreseeable future. Need a calculator that converts metric/imperial/fractions. What a mess.
Your videos are a wealth of infomation , thanks for taking the time to educate us newbies , I specialy appreciate your approach to saftey and in depth explanations .You helped me build my first off grid sep up for my cabin few years ago and its still going strong . Keep up the awesome work mate !!
I have now watched the video. Surge protection is a wonderful idea on the DC side - do not oversize it, match it closely to the maximum open-circuit potential of the solar array. Get the ground connection wired as straight as possible to a good earth ground (and this can be separate from the service entrance - like at a ground-mounted array) but bonded to other ground rods if inside a structure. You are correct in not adding more ground points than at the service entrance of a building. Ground loops are to be avoided, chased down, and eradicated. They can cause all kinds of obscure issues. An SPD will not cause a ground loop. The DC side, being under 60 volts, is likely going to be a Class 2 circuit under the National Electrical Code (NEC) Solar arrays have the advantage of being inherently current-limited. Batteries are not, so over-current protection is required. Neither are going to be much of a shock hazard at 48 VDC. thanks!
Your knowledge of electrical code is impressive, James Alles. I felt like a first-year electrical student, again, just reading your comment. Are you an instructor?
@@jayspell179 no, that is something that I missed. I became aware of the low-voltage aspect of the code working for Simplex on Fire Alarm systems in the 80s. I suppose I did do a little teaching. thanks
I enjoyed reading your comments. What happens when the PV arrays are wired in series and produce voltages of around 400V DC? The latest solar inverters can take up to 6kW input @450V DC up to 20A. If I had two 5000W inverters wired in parallel and eight 50V Canadian solar panels (VOC 49.6V, IOC 13A) wired in series serving each inverter, what might be the earthing / grounding implications of such an install?
@@fredflintstone1428 earthing / grounding stays the same. Conductor insulation becomes critical - 600V is needed. check your local codes, it is now high voltage, and an entirely different animal.
Great videos, I learn a lot. Grounding is a complex topic. I don't have the answers but I have some thoughts. NEC 250.32 deals with grounding outbuildings. Since 2008, grounding electrodes are required at outbuildings like your garage causing multiple earth grounding electrodes contrary to the older philosophy of avoiding ground loops in the grounding conductor systems.
One more thing you need to understand about AC grounding is "Bonding" this provides a path for the electricity to trip the breakers from a grounded short circuit. Bonding is usually provided by a ribbon in the back of your breaker box that goes from ground to neutral. If you have multiple boxes, only bond your ground to the neutral in the box closes to the incoming service and remove the bonding connection in all boxes feeding the main box. Make sure grounds are in place to all wiring to other boxes. This provides only one path for a large surge or lightning.
Thanks for these great videos! We just bought a 12 kw system on Sat for our off grid home and these videos couldn't have come at a more opportune time!
I'm looking to disconnect my utility and have an inverter run my house, the inverter has the earth and neutral bonded at its output, i would like to run the inverter inplace of utility at the panel so would i have to remove the ground rod? It's confusing me.
Fault current travels back to the source, not to the earth. Mike Holt’s Grounding versus Bonding videos are great source of information. I have to stay up with the NEC every 3 years. He has been teaching for over 40 years. As a side note Will, if it was not a stand alone system, or if you were to use this system for a home back up in an emergency power outage, through an interlock kit, make sure your Neutrals and Grounding conductors will be separated in this Square D panel. 6/4 cable would go back to the interlock breaker. Also, only one neutral conductor is allowed per terminal. Otherwise you will have an objectionable currents flowing on all metal parts of your electrical system - dangerous condition to have. I keep finding this in people’s homes when someone would add a sub panel. The grounding and grounded (neutral) conductors have to be connected only in one point in the house - at the main breaker panel.
Very good point if I use an interlock kit. I would absolutely separate the grounds and neutrals in the panel. That would be very dangerous if I did not. I am glad you watch Mike Holt! He is fantastic!
I was going to bring up bonding. I know in a city connection you only bond at the main breaker box and not at the subpanels. As I understand the concept of bonding is to give the electricity a return path so as to not ground out an entire system, how does that work in an off grid scenario? Do you still do bonding at the main box? Or is it a ground that is used? This is a great discussion going on here and bringing up very good points that I was curious about.
I'm trying to figure out my solar system sure glad I found the videos thank you Will. I'm taking in so much information trying to figure out what stuff to buy and everything. It's overwhelming and now I'm finding out about grounding and it's really overwhelming I don't know anything about it.. and even your great explanation I couldn't figure out. On my new system that's similar to this one but I'm only going to have one inverter for now 120. I'm not going to have any AC input because I don't have any AC input anywhere I'm completely off grid. I was considering wiring my generator into that AC input. I guess I still don't know anything about grounding. I'm going to have to listen to the video again and again. I think you said if you have AC input you don't need ground because it's already in the AC input wires that sounds logical. I'll read it again if my comment doesn't make any sense I'll delete it.. I didn't know anything about grounding until today. Wow it's very confusing.
Mike Holt is great. I used to use his videos in my Electrical Trades Classes. For those people on here that want drawings, they should go look at Mike Holt. He does great drawings.
I built my own system and I’m totally confused, it always works better when you show exactly how you’re hooking up a ground and where and why! 😳 I’ll definitely look into the links. Thanks
May I also suggest NFPA 99 ... just skim contents for meat ya want.... things will start to click and looking into the subject as you said will help us all be safer : )
Quite simply do not do this you do not know what you’re doing if you can’t understand technical language here it means you can’t understand the physical concept either you should really consult regulations
Thank you Will for expounding on this ground discussion going on on your site. I have learned a lot from Mike's lecture and from your comments. Now I need to go unhook my ground rod from my array!! This is way more complicated than most people think especially when you add in lightning.
Are you sure you want to do that? I don't think what he is saying is the same as a grounded array. if you put up a tv antenna outside I'm sure you would ground it. if lighting hit the array it will most likely enter the ground at the grounded array
Just installed an axpert max 7.2kw, and as soon as it switches some internal relays while powering on, the house goes dark. Had to remove the input ground wire for it to run. Im assuming the inverter switches the neutral to ground internally 🤷♂️ In the manual it states the pv array must not be grounded to it as well..
On the subject of grounding. I have seen varying opinions on whether or not to ground the PV Array (I mean the PV frame NOT ground to inverters etc.) to Earth Grounding rod. You may want to do a video on this.
I'd love a video on that, I'm off grid, and run a 12v dc system with a only on when in use 3000w stand alone inverter, I'm still clueless as to whether an earth electrode is needed on the AC side can someone please explain, do I earth my solar controller? Or do I bond these to negative, battery etc?
Most inverters have "Enclosure Ground Terminal", also Grounding Wire Connectors on both AC input and AC Output, where do you connect the "Enclosure Ground Terminal" to? Or just leave it disconnected.
So, I have my 110v from the service panel on the pole to my inverter then off to the RV. The solar panels are mounted on top of a metal utility trailer. The panels are all connected with ground clamps and wire. WHERE do I put the ground wire from the panels? The panel at the pole is earth grounded. Thank you
I'm just a layman on the subject but I'm glad your warning people about adding extra grounds. The grounds all have to be bonded together at the same potential otherwise you are giving lightning a dangerous path through your home. Edit: also ground bonds need very heavy wire or flashing and short runs to be effective from my understanding.
My growatt inverter specifically addresses this in the manual where I have to have an inverter controlled relay to bond and unbound my ground to neutral on the inverter output specifically when it switches back to grid power. Perhaps you can do a video on this?
I suppose, that this relay acts as "automatic grounding relay" for the following reason. Inverter itself can be considered as independent AC source, like gasoline/diesel generator. So, if this inverter is in Off-grid mode (island mode) without any connection to AC grid, then, its output neutral must be grounded. If inverter has AC grid connection, AND its neutral runs from AC input to AC output continuously, without any interruptions like contacts of relays, then, neutral grounding of AC output is accomplished by AC grid's already grounded neutral. Following yours descriprion of Growatt behavior and need for specially controlled relay, I think, that neutral from inverter's AC input to AC output can be breaked by some internal relays in island mode. So, this relay is needed to groung output neutral locally, near the inverter itself. The same requirements for output neutral grounding are exists in the world of Telecom inverter systems (DC 48 V to various AC voltages). We also need to ground AC output neutral in case of absence AC input connection to AC grid.
@@WillProwse I run solar as my primary and the grid as my backup. The grid neutral and ground are bonded in the main panel. So when I'm running in grid mode all loads function normally. When the batteries charge up and it switches back to the inverter my loads stop functioning because the neutral and ground output of the inverter are not bonded. By code I can only have 1 neutral to ground bond in the system. If I connect neutral to ground on the inverter output without a relay I end up with 2 bonds when it switches back to the grid. The growatt has normally open and normally closed wire connections for this exact purpose to control a bonding relay.
Yep, @john, it's a requirement in my country, when the inverter operate on battery, neutral must be connected to ground. Mppsolar inverter don't do that. Shutdown ac input and check the voltage between neutral and ground. Should be zero, but its not on mppsolar inverter. You can find a grounding box, wich is simply a relay that connect neutral to ground under a condition controls by the inverter optional relay output. Need a special firmware version to activate the relay when ac input is not present. Otherwise you can implement the same thing with voltage detection on ac input and some relay. The thing is mppsolar is totally speechless about grounding to neutral regarding regulation and theirs products.
2000w SunGoldPower inverter charger fed from my house 120v, and from 3 X 100w solar panels. All feeding 4 X 100ah LiFePo4 batteries. House is earth grounded. What I hear you saying is that I should remove my earth ground on my solar panels ASAP?
More explanation on the ac input please, as this is off grid, are we assuming the ac input is a generator with its own true earth (rod) and does it have a men link?
I have a question, is that gray power panel a main panel or a sub panel? As a main I have no problem with it,just it has no main shutdown in it. If it’s a sub panel the grounds and neutral should be separated not bound together. What you are saying is right, one grounding point in the main panel box. But you can have more than one ground from that main box. Hear we have to have at less two a two ground rods or a ground rod and be bounded to the water pipes.
Perfect!!! If anyone disagrees with anything he said here go back and listen to it over and over and then study electrical engineering and electrical theory and you will then understand that everything that was said is spot on. Thank you Will.
Excellent, and I fully agree (see 0:50). Approx quote: Even if you have two or three Grounding Electrodes you want to tie it together at one place'. Many absolutely stand by the fact that there can only be ONE Grounding Electrode period! They have no understanding of what Single-Point Grounding actually means! Many even think grounding attracts lightning which is directly opposed to sound engineering practices.
I have a single grounding rod connected to bare copper wire that runs to all my pv and inverter generator panel etc. in an outbuilding that feeds my RV. This is only for lightning protection and I have no AC input. Did I do it wrong?
Please provide some visualization on this topic. I have seen an end to end Inverter/Electric Sub-panel/Battery setup video and the gentleman there grounded the whole system with a true grounding electrode. Basically a separate grounding bus bar in the subpanel which is connected to inverters as well as true ground electrode outside.
Good information. Appears that sub panels need to have isolated neutrals so faults go back to main panel. Grounding electrodes for lighting protection.
Is that considered a sub panel since it is all by it's self? Or a "main panel"? I was wondering if it would need to have separate neutral and grounding bars.
On a related matter, I have hard question. My EV using the V2L cable produces a 240v supply that does NOT have a earth by default. So how can I power appliances which expect a AC supply with a earth ? Please help ….
Will, be very careful discussing marine "grounding" as it can get tricky and lead to ALOT of corrosion for any metal touching the water. Stray current for marine is a big deal.
@@gregoryyount6907 And every boat is different. Wood, fiberglass, steel or aluminum hull and composition of below water line hardware. Then you have “under protected, over protected and the just right. Where will it spend most of the time fresh, salt or brine. Types of anode metals, bond or not to bond and bond to what? Neutral switch over to ground, isolation transformers, equipment current leakage. Oh the list goes on. It’ can be a science. Wrong gets expensive. And land electricians think they got it rough Lol!
Check out the victron unlimited PDF for some basic marine grounding advice: www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf ABYC and this book is where I get my info on marine systems from: www.amazon.com/Boatowners-Mechanical-Electrical-Manual-4/dp/0071790330/ref=asc_df_0071790330/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312176357948&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3157251246000314898&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030754&hvtargid=pla-333901114316&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60258871137&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312176357948&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3157251246000314898&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030754&hvtargid=pla-333901114316
A local grounding to your own earth spike would make sense in case of an outage of commercial power, which would cause you to lose their ground reference. But in such a case, you’d also need to have an Earth-Neutral Bridge (the single point where it’s all bonded), which flips automatically between commercial power ground and your own local ground, depending on if the commercial provider is up or down. Surge protection on for each fuse box on the PV side is definitely a plus. I use 500V SPD’s.
No... loss of utility input does not interrupt earth grounding at the meter. Only way to interrupt that would be to disconnect the earth conductor feeding the ground rods at the residence ot the pole.
@@SuperVstech Not my experience… I have SMA PV inverters, and every time we had a loss of mains AC, we had a PE (potential earth) fault that caused the inverters to stop making power because they assumed grid failure, even with the micro grid present. An Earth-Neutral bridge bonding that also included a local ground spike fixed this.
@@DJMT-Africa If there wasn't a neutral to earth ground bond at the the main disconnect, then that was your problem, and it would have been in violation of code. Downstream panels/subpanels from that point onward must have their grounds and neutrals separated, unless it falls under some exception.
If I am building a shed solar panel system with no plan to connect to the grid and no plan to have AC from the house connected to the shed (200 feet away), should I place ground rods and thus ground the solar array and inverter?
Excellent! I feel slightly responsible! Something I didn't realize when watching other vidy (off grid title?) that you had an earth ground elsewhere. Absolutely correct, grounds loops are dangerous and can cause electrical problems with certain equipment. Bottom line, follow local code, mfg instructions. Any exposed conductive surfaces that encloses a potential (voltage) should be PROPERLY grounded to prevent shock. exceptions like double insulated code etc, ya need to check code. And yea, seen double insulated fail. And my apologies, didn't realize you DID have a proper grounded case (breaker box) enclosure.... thought off grid. Thanks, Ken
That was important to note that you had an established ground elsewhere already. I would also consider 110.26 as a good practice(batteries below equipment)
One more thing you need to understand about AC grounding is "Bonding" this provides a path for the electricity to trip the breakers from a grounded short circuit. Bonding is usually provided by a ribbon in the back of your breaker box that goes from ground to neutral. If you have multiple boxes, only bond your ground to the neutral in the box closes to the incoming service and remove the bonding connection in all boxes feeding the main box. Make sure grounds are in place to all wiring to other boxes. This provides only one path for a large surge or lightning.
Please help...I am off grid with 2 victron inverters isplit phase. Everything works great but rainy season is coming and we get big lightning here in the rain forest. My Breaker Box "which is very close to my components is ground using a copper rod. My panels which are 50 feet away are also ground using a copper rod. Is this ok or should I unground the breaker box?
I do have my panels on their own grounding for the panel frames and dc lines are fused incase something tries to send more amps through the dc input lines like a failed shorting inverter that backfeds ac to the panel frames.
I have a Growatt 6000 , 18000 surge split phase inverter, can I connect a 120 ace wire to the inverter ac input from the house main 120 receptacle outlet to charge the 48 volt batteries.
Hi Will, I have a cuestion? I install a inverter powmr is 230, 24v 3000W off grid when I check the power in the output lines, one give me 90v and the other line 170. I conect the ground I install a ground route outside the storage.
Very interesting stuff about the "ground loop". And I have a question. My house has a ground for the sockets (with those metal rods in the ground at the corner of the house) and a separate ground (another metal bar at the opposite corner of the house, as it happens...) for the tv cable. Is that wrong? I am assuming the shield on the antenna plug at the tv is connected to the power ground. Maybe not. Am I in danger? Thanks!
Electrical codes should require all the grounding rods to be "bonded" together (i.e., there should be a direct ground wire connection between all grounding rods, which should also be no further than 16 feet apart). You mention the bus bars are on opposite sides of the house, but that's probably fine as long as they share the same grounding rod or the grounding rods are properly bonded. If you want some piece of mind, you could trace the connection leaving the TV cable bus bar and check that it connects back to the service ground.
Grounds need to be bonded at the rods. Delicate electronics are not where bonding should occur. If the potential of your antenna ground is better than your ac ground, your entire/most of home grounding system will attempt to pass through your tv. By bonding the rods, both should have nearly equal potential and surge/emf (why you need a coax ground) will go to shortest path vs path of least resistance.
What a great community! Thank you all for trying to help me understand this better. The antenna ground is something I did myself to get rid of EMF interference and I can tell you that is NOT connected to the mains ground. But I do wonder if TVs will connect the mains ground to the antenna ground (shield). I need to do some better research on this. Also, this is in Europe, on a 240V connection. Some things (codes) might differ.
One more detail: the cable tv on my house (which goes to multiple tv sets) is NOT coming from outside the house. There is a fiber coming in with both internet and digital tv signal and it goes to this box that outputs internet and cable tv...
I wonder what qualifies as a large pv array? I have 13kw array and not sure if I need an SPD to an earth ground (8' copper electrode I reckon). This system is off grid if that makes a difference
So is it true with the setup you have , If you max out on one phase you are not able to use the second phase so if one inverter is maxed out the other one is useless
My solar panels are running to a midnite solar combiner box that's grounded to earth is it safe to continue on to the inverter with the combiner box being grounded to earth I'm not using the AC input part of the inverter just the output line and neutral my ground is on the side of the case with a screw
I bought a bigger inverter a week ago. It have ac input failover. If the battery is too low it will charge the battery to my setting and handle the ac output( i think . Havnt tested) well never plugged in the ac input until today. Works like a charm. My house doesnt seem to have any ground pin in any of the sockets. So i just skipped ground(for now). I notised the battery, 12v lifepo, makes my fingers tingle, continuesly when i touch the bare wire or the +/- directly on the cell. It never did that before. Took a sec to realise it might be grounding needed when ac is plugged in. Is that static build up or what is the cause? Now i wonder if its any danger to the battery.
I appreciate this info. I'm 100%off grid and I was curious if I should have a earth ground connected. I bought a grounding rod but have never hooked it up. I felt like it was a complete closed system and didn't believe I actually needed one.. I have a 5kw eco-worthy hybrid inverter. Connected to my camper breaker box. I also have a inverter generator hooked up to my system to charge/bypass also I have 12 solar panels.. so... Should I use my ground rod?? Thank you
Can you go over this with portable power systems such as Delta Pro and AC300/500? Do different UPS modes affect the grounding? Ideally I'd want to set up an AC500 that powers a critical loads/subpanel mostly using solar/PV Priority UPS mode but then also have a circuit from the main panel plugged in for backup. Also it would be ideal to be able to take the unit camping or use it as it as a mobile power station as needed too and just power the critical loads panel directly from the main panel then.
If the sub panel is in the same structure (house for instance) yes that's correct. If the sub panel is in another structure such as a detached garage away from your house a ground rod is required. The power feeding your detached garage sub panel (2 hots, neutral and ground) in this case the ground wire is bonded to a ground rod outside the garage. Definitely not the neutral to ground bonding as in the main service panel.
Excellent points, however, in places as Florida which has more than a million lightning strikes yearly it is very important to have lightning dissipators the bigger and more the better to make the system invisible to electrons Flying in both directions.
@@veryinteresting591 Central Florida was where I grew up! First off of OBT down the road from Gator Land and then out in Clermont. Looking back it was intense!
Hi man, need some help here if possible. I have a small one 450w panel system with a 12v 250amp battery to run only my fridge(smart inverter), i am playing arround and testing and stuff. I am conected to the grid, and have this small setup, but the two are separate, and i have no intention to join them. My intention is to have two grids in my house, the grid, and my grid, to later on further grow my grid. ¿Is it a good idea to ground this system? I have the neigbours comunity antena in my top terrace wich has a ground. ¿Would it be ok to conect ground there? This ground is from the grid, not my own.. is that a problem ??
This now raises my own questions. Is it possible I can send you a YT link to a video of my setup with my current ground configuration, get your feed back?
Great video, but I had a question about these inverters. I went on their website and found that these are “off grid” inverters. What is this “AC input” that you refer to in your video? Is that for AC charging?
They have many types of inverters, I think the ones Will has are "hybrid". You have 120V in from the grid yes. That can be used to carry loads or charge batteries when the solar array isn't producing. You can choose what power to use for the load side of the inverter... give priority to the solar and batteries or the grid etc... depends what your goal is. Lots of people just use these things as a type of online UPS for critical circuits and the batteries are just there if the grid fails. One of the inverters cuts out the need for transfer switches and is flexible on where it gets energy ... arrays, generators, the grid - everything but rubbing two sticks together. I've powered/charged mine with a step up transformer using the dual alternators in my truck (36V @50amps step up)
Depends on what type you buy. I have these hybrid off grid inverters and I can use it completely off grid with a generator as a back up or connect it to the grid if the battery bank is depleted and no sun.
Will, the "Wiring Unlinited" publication clearly shows negative DC bus grounded in an offgrid system. Are you suggesting to go against this, or is the real problem when there are 2 ground rods in 1 system?
Depends on your environment and wiring configuration. And your local regulations. It's really up to you on these systems. If you need to do that then do it
from my prespective i understood that your earth is not bonded to neuteral inside the inverters .and you just have earth for the apliances you connect to your system !!!! am i right ? ?
The comprehensiveness of this video makes it a true standout. I have struggled to explain my particular situation, and I now understand that I need to describe other situations that would require earth grounding, how and why may be the missing piece. Truly excellent work!
I can see adding a ground rod only if this is for an off grid 120VAC or a 120/240VAC system. In this case, it would be the only ground rod. Otherwise, you are correct, 1 ground rod at the service entrance only when connected to a grid-tie system. But, what if you are using a 120VAC inverter in combination with a relay that redirects the load back to grid when the inverter turns off? The grid side is grounded, but the inverter side would not be. I have several of these systems, and I tied all my grounds together on each one. This grounds the inverter cases and the inverter output.
Whilst this is an old video it still talks about getting an electrical shock by electricity passing through the body and going to ground. Electricity does not go to ground, it goes back to the source (a circuit) if it does travel through the earth it is to get back to the source - not just to go to ground. This is key in understanding AC.
I have a 3K hybrid inverter with a shore power plug. When using shore power a test of an unloaded socket shows wiring to be correct. However, when using the inverter without shore power, an indicative light suggests that there may be a wiring problem....Is it normal for this to happen? Also, I have safety switches and breakers in place and all seems to work well.......Thanks
It's amazing to me how many people misunderstand the purpose of earth ground. Mostly people seem to think that earth ground protects them from getting shocked somehow. Lack of "earth" ground doesn't mean you don't have a ground at all, it's just not tied to earth. Your ground wire still acts as an emergency return path to the breaker box to trip the circuit breaker if needed, but that ground wire doesn't need to be tied to earth to perform that duty. By not having an earth ground you're actually decreasing the chance of being shocked. Since the "earth" you're standing on is no longer a conductor you can no longer get shocked by simply accidentally touching a hot wire because there is no "return path" through the earth for that current to flow through your body. In fact: a common piece of safety equipment used by crews working in outdoor / wet environments is something called an "isolation transformer". It's a 1:1 transformer (So it doesn't step up or down) that plugs into a wall socket and creates a new electrical connection that creates an "isolated" electrical path that is no longer referenced to ground. This is used as a piece of safety equipment because by removing the earth ground as a return path for the current it makes it safer to use electrical equipment outdoors in wet conditions. Off grid inverters achieve the same result as an isolation transformer. They effectively "isolate" the electrical system from earth.
Circuit breakers are overcurrent devices, and will not trip on a ground fault that isn't overcurrent. Please fix your comment. This isn't worded accurately: "Your ground wire still acts as an emergency return path to the breaker box to trip the circuit breaker if needed..."
As a counterpoint, not bonding to earth ground your system ground can float significantly above or below earth ground. You will then become a path for that equalization. Usually it's under a hundred volts and very little current BUT it can get crazy in certain situations. This effect is one of the big reasons we all ground to Earth and don't encourage floating ground.
@@FrancisKoczur Circuit breakers aren't designed to trip on "ground faults" at all in any circumstance. In fact a "ground fault" would make a circuit breaker *less likely* to trip because a "ground fault" generally means the return path is compromised in some way. The purpose of the "ground" wire in a circuit is to provide an "low resistance" emergency return path to the breaker box. The "low resistance" piece is key to this. By providing a low resistance return path if the hot wire were to come loose and touch the metal case of an appliance the low resistance return path would ensure the breaker trips as many amps would instantly flow through that return path. A "ground fault", by definition, is a condition where this return path is removed or damaged, which would prevent the breaker from tripping and would create a shock hazard if the hot wire in an appliance become loose, frayed, etc. Circuit breakers do not protect against ground faults unless they are GFCI type circuit breakers. GFCI protects against ground faults, circuit breakers do not. Either way the situation does not change based on whether your ground is tied to earth or not. The low resistance return path from the appliance to the breaker box is what's important, not whether or not the breaker box ground is also attached to earth.
@@oshavlfarms7239 As a counter counterpoint: Every time someone uses a portable generator, or one installed in an RV or truck, or any kind of mobile/portable inverter such as one installed in any kind of vehicle, they are utilizing a floating ground. Think about how many thousands of people are using one of these floating ground devices every day from long haul truck drivers who aren't allowed to idle their engines and yet no-one seems overly concerned about the danger. That's because the amount of charge buildup on these smaller scale systems is not very large. Even if there was a significant voltage differential of 100+ volts: it would be the same as touching a tiny capacitor which was charged to that same voltage. The reason why it's not a big danger is because it would result in a microscopic amount of current flow and it's large amounts of current, not voltage, that is dangerous. With something as massive as the grid that's a real concern, and which is why it's earth grounded. But with a small off grid system it just isn't.
You know a lot about electrical. I do not have a solar system but EVERY time there I'd an electrical storm, my breaker trips and we sit in the dark until the storm passes. If I flip the breaker switch, it just trips again when lightening flashes. I thought we needed a ground but after this video, I'm not sure. We do have a metal roof. Can you explain why or how I can fix this problem?
You need to explain in more detail what you have? what breaker trips? Is your solar tied into your grid? Are you using any ground rods besides what is in your home? Are your panels connected to your metal roof?
It seem confusing to get the correct info for solar subpanels. These are not subpanels from from a grid main panel. Their basically their own panel so I don't see why they should tie back to main panel in anyway. My issue is how to ground that panel and do I bond the neutral bar to panel as well? I have neutral bar and a separate ground bar. I have the Growatt and is connected to 120v in from my main(for fallback), as well as my solar PV. And then I have the 120 output to my subpanel of which I have 3 circuit breakers connected. Seems to work fine with standard circuit breakers, but when I tried to put in a arc-fault circuit breaker, it trips immediately.
you mentioned a marine application. If you are at sea and have a solar system with a gen backup and an inverter providing onboard 110/230 v to ship systems how is a ground obtained?
One thing I haven't seen in any solar vids on youtube is do you ground to your chassis in a pickup truck caps house battery solar setup with inverter that's not tied into the start battery
Will, Great point. A similar question relating to those solar generator/power stations. I believe they are not truly grounded. The A/C output runs on floating neutral. What if, when the A/C charge input is connected. Would the power station be grounded during the time through the A/C input cable? Now, would the ground pass through to the A/C output if there were output load plugged in the A/C output jack?
Code requires separate grounding electrodes for sub panels in outbuildings. You bring across 4 wires from the primary panel to the sub (L1, L2, N, GND), and you do not bond GND to N at the subpanel. That is to avoid current loops. But the remote subpanel DOES get it's own grounding electrode which is then connected to the ground bus bar in the sub panel and the ground pulled from the primary. A subpanel adjacent to the primary panel does not require its own grounding electrode, because the path to the primary is so short. So the question here is how far away is that sub panel from the primary. Even IF in the same building.
The sub panel in this situation is feef from the inverter. It's not a sub panel of the grid connected system. The only ground connection between this system and the grid feed system will be with the grid supplied feed to the inverter, if and when that happens.
i do not understand my brain is still new to this. so you mean to say, "do not ground your solar panels but instead, ground your inverters" and put a surge protector on both the dc side and the ac side of the inverter. so if you ground your solar panels direct to earth ground, and a lightning strikes the ground near your earthgrounding, there's a chance that the lightning will travel from the grounding itself direct to the panel. moreover, a direct lignting strike in panels will yield damage regardless if grounded or not? grounding the solar panels is useless and more dangerous in that regard? please correct me. i do not know what i'm thinking anymore.
15 วันที่ผ่านมา
My system has 4 separate ground rods, grid AC ground, inverter AC ground and two solar panel/combiner box ground.. The AC ground is common through the grid breaker panels, the inverter ground is common to the inverter AC breaker panel and the charge controllers with a ground rod in the basement at the inverter box.. All these are bonded together to create a ground field of sorts which 99% eliminates all electronic noise from the system into my amateur radio gear.. There are 6 surge arrestors and several MOV devices spread throughout the wiring, 1 two phase AC arrestor at the main grid breaker, 1 two phase AC arrestor at the primary sub panel, one DC arrestor for each of the solar panel arrays, two AC two phase arrestors near the inverter and its AC distribution panel, one MOV at each of the eight breakers in the solar combiner box, one from solar - to ground, several factory MOV's on the inverter and each charge controller, 80a GFI/arc fault breakers and MOV's between the neutral and ground in every panel.. Could something get past all that? Yes but if God wants to kill it it's going to smoke.. I also have 5 ground rods on my radio tower and antenna poles because lightning has hit them so many tomes every tree in 250 feet has scars..
i buy a hybrid inverter with AC input as charger. the AC input already have ground. but the AC output only has load and netral line. there is ground mark below the AC output, i believe that is the cable ground from output should be connected. do i need to make another ground? or just paralel existing ground to those AC output. i still don't understand, why the AC output doesn't have line for ground, they need to be separated place in hybrid inverter. sorry if this is a dumb question..
Hi Will. Thanks for the tech tips. I have a question, My pv is over vaulting my inverter, But only when windy. The Panels are in series, with a combined voltage of 73 V and the inverter is 100v max.
Hey will absolutely love your content. I have a pretty funny hypothetical question. Technically since no grounding rod or true earth ground is needed, and this system is in fact floating. Could the main breaker panel be constructed of plastic (of course with identical internals)? Would that further reduce any potential shock hazard? I only ask because the main reason most panels are in fact metal is due to the panel/grounding rod connection am I correct there? Thanks
I am also absolutely acknowledging the fact that metal is in fact safer than plastic in terms of fire safety, durability. This situation would involve smaller loads like a 25-30 amp panel.
Excellent video, Will. A question: Let's assume you were NOT connected to an AC input with an earth-connected ground and were truly grid independent. Would you then connect your breaker panel to a true earth ground? I assume so. The reason I ask is that some people might have a system whereby they are *sometimes* connected to an AC input with earth-connected ground (tiny house on wheels connected to extension cord) but sometimes they are off grid with no AC input. Would you have to disconnect and reconnect an earth ground to this breaker panel depending on if AC input is available?
There is the argument that on some devices, static accumulation can cause a shock if not connected to true earth. I have never experienced it before. Having a floating system, not connected to earth at all, is not necessarily dangerous. I'm still trying to find devices that can accumulate charge as I've read from multiple sources. I test for potential in the cases of my equipment and have never found it. Besides that, I don't see any issue having a floating system.
Will, can you please give us a visualization of different grounding procedures? Correct vs incorrect. Grid tie vs off grid.
seconded
Thirded
fourthed
Ditto
Same, please
Part 2 Grounding Update: th-cam.com/video/X3QA9T_O1g0/w-d-xo.html
Update: this system will never pass an inspection and never needs to. It is Offgrid and there is not a single permit required for connecting a battery to an inverter, and using a couple of panels laying on the ground. People are trying to reference NEC?? Why? This inverter isn't even listed. Sure it's compliant and certified, but it would still fail inspection. And that's fine. I'm not connected to grid (besides back up battery charger which isn't grid tie. It's a battery charger). And I only care about safety and that's it.
Original pinned comment:
Oh and I'm adding ac supply at the input on it's own breaker today (and programming it to only use the battery charger. Not bypass!). That's why I said it has true earth ground in one of my given examples.
When this system is supplied by a true earth ground ac circuit, I do not need to separate the grounds and neutrals on my panel because the transfer switch will be open, and the output of this inverter will not act as a sub panel supply. This is because the input only supplies a battery charger in my configuration. If I am using it as a UPS (which requires programming it as such), and I have a large dedicated breaker supply from my sub panel, (which I will not do), then I will need to separate ground and neutrals. That would make a separate connection, and it is not isolated. When the ATS inside the inverter is connected only to the battery charger, it is isolated. But still susceptible to high voltage if a ground loop was created.
If it was not grounded when not connected to ac input, that is fine. There are plenty of standalone systems without grounding. Such as an RV electrical system with inverter when not connected to shore power. Same thing.
So it really depends on how you use it. If you are using it not as a solar power system, and instead as a stand-alone UPS, then I could see why you do not want to bond the ground and neutrals at the ac output. But that is the only exception I can think of.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Does off-grid solar confuse you? Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com
Join our DIY solar community! #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com
Check out my best-selling, beginner-friendly 12V off-grid solar book (affiliate link):
amzn.to/2Aj4dX4
If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Solar. Low prices and great warranty, and they can take your entire house offgrid with their new Powerwalls: ts.la/william57509
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):
12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html
Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html
Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html
Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html
DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html
Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar and Coupon Codes:
-Current Connected: SOK, Victron and High Quality Components. Best prices and warranty around: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp
-Signature Solar: Cheap Server Rack Batteries and Large Solar Panels:
www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
-Ecoflow Delta Official Site: My favorite plug-n-play solar generator:
us.ecoflow.com/?aff=7
-AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around:
amperetime.com/products/ampere-time-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
-Rich Solar: Mega site and cheaper prices than renogy! Check them out:
richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
-Shop Solar Kits: Huge site with every solar kit you can imagine! Check it out:
shopsolarkits.com/?ref=will-p
-Battery Hookup: Cheap cell deals
bit.ly/2mIxSqt
10% off code: diysolar
-Watts 24/7: Best deals on all-in-one solar power systems, with customer support and distribution here in the USA:
watts247.com/?wpam_id=3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact Information:
I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com
Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar
FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:
Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :)
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program,
An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
Will, are you sure the setting for utility charging vs ups really switches the neutral? A switched neutral tends to be fairly expensive and I’d be surprised if this kind of sophistication is built it. I would have guessed the neutrals (AC in and out) were always bonded to each other. Would be interesting to test this with a multimeter.
You are right. I really enjoy your Channel.
Ciao
I think of a UPS as when the solar/battery is a backup for the grid. The other option - and what I'm thinking of doing in my setup is to have solar/battery as the primary with the grid as the backup. I believe that if I'm doing it in that way that I have to have a dedicated ground for the AC subpanel which is going to be in a solar shed/out-building ... I've slept a time or two since I delved into the NEC looking this stuff up though - I'm going to have to re-read it to remember the details on grounds and panel bonding however.
Hi, could you please make a new video with "schemas" and explanation? It will be very clear for all of us. Please.
@@kmil2010 actually some are not. You always need to check. These inverters are for Offgrid use only when not in ups or backfeed mode. They have some inverters that are hybrid, and the connections are obviously different. But yes I should verify with multimeter
It's unfortunate that the National Electrical Code uses the term grounding and grounded. I was a member of the NEC section for many years and there has always been confusion. Many of us believe that the current terminology should be canned and use the terms earthing and bonding to help eliminate confusion. Many other countries use this terminology and it is much simpler.
I agree! I prefer using the term earthing, but I know that's not the appropriate term. It's unfortunate the terminology can be so confusing.
Good to know.
It needs to go! Those who know will pick up on the changes it fast enough. The rest of that don’t can start learning properly.
@@honumoorea873 The metric system is soo much easier than the imperial system. I have a degree in chemistry so I have been using the metric system since the 1950s. It is great. I can't even imagine trying to do scientificl calculations in the imperial format. That being said, the imperial system is so ingrained into our culture that I can't see it being changed in the foreseeable future. Need a calculator that converts metric/imperial/fractions. What a mess.
@@pauloconnell7668
that is dumb, grinding your axe in a grounding thread
@will do more grounding vidoes. Start from the beginning. Been searching so few videos on this.
Your videos are a wealth of infomation , thanks for taking the time to educate us newbies , I specialy appreciate your approach to saftey and in depth explanations .You helped me build my first off grid sep up for my cabin few years ago and its still going strong .
Keep up the awesome work mate !!
Please do a video on grounding considerations for solar panels on both roof mounted and ground mounted arrays.
Title says does my “offgrid” need a ground but you are saying it has ac input. What if there is no ac grid input then what?
I have now watched the video.
Surge protection is a wonderful idea on the DC side - do not oversize it, match it closely to the maximum open-circuit potential of the solar array. Get the ground connection wired as straight as possible to a good earth ground (and this can be separate from the service entrance - like at a ground-mounted array) but bonded to other ground rods if inside a structure.
You are correct in not adding more ground points than at the service entrance of a building. Ground loops are to be avoided, chased down, and eradicated. They can cause all kinds of obscure issues. An SPD will not cause a ground loop.
The DC side, being under 60 volts, is likely going to be a Class 2 circuit under the National Electrical Code (NEC)
Solar arrays have the advantage of being inherently current-limited.
Batteries are not, so over-current protection is required.
Neither are going to be much of a shock hazard at 48 VDC.
thanks!
Your knowledge of electrical code is impressive, James Alles. I felt like a first-year electrical student, again, just reading your comment. Are you an instructor?
@@jayspell179 no, that is something that I missed. I became aware of the low-voltage aspect of the code working for Simplex on Fire Alarm systems in the 80s. I suppose I did do a little teaching. thanks
Wow I don't think I'm ever going to be able to figure out these grounding theories.🙂
I enjoyed reading your comments. What happens when the PV arrays are wired in series and produce voltages of around 400V DC? The latest solar inverters can take up to 6kW input @450V DC up to 20A. If I had two 5000W inverters wired in parallel and eight 50V Canadian solar panels (VOC 49.6V, IOC 13A) wired in series serving each inverter, what might be the earthing / grounding implications of such an install?
@@fredflintstone1428 earthing / grounding stays the same. Conductor insulation becomes critical - 600V is needed. check your local codes, it is now high voltage, and an entirely different animal.
Great videos, I learn a lot. Grounding is a complex topic. I don't have the answers but I have some thoughts. NEC 250.32 deals with grounding outbuildings. Since 2008, grounding electrodes are required at outbuildings like your garage causing multiple earth grounding electrodes contrary to the older philosophy of avoiding ground loops in the grounding conductor systems.
One more thing you need to understand about AC grounding is "Bonding" this provides a path for the electricity to trip the breakers from a grounded short circuit. Bonding is usually provided by a ribbon in the back of your breaker box that goes from ground to neutral. If you have multiple boxes, only bond your ground to the neutral in the box closes to the incoming service and remove the bonding connection in all boxes feeding the main box. Make sure grounds are in place to all wiring to other boxes. This provides only one path for a large surge or lightning.
Thanks for these great videos! We just bought a 12 kw system on Sat for our off grid home and these videos couldn't have come at a more opportune time!
I'm looking to disconnect my utility and have an inverter run my house, the inverter has the earth and neutral bonded at its output, i would like to run the inverter inplace of utility at the panel so would i have to remove the ground rod? It's confusing me.
I am confused. A diagram would have been nice to include in the video. The lightning diagram alone taught me a lot!
Fault current travels back to the source, not to the earth. Mike Holt’s Grounding versus Bonding videos are great source of information. I have to stay up with the NEC every 3 years. He has been teaching for over 40 years. As a side note Will, if it was not a stand alone system, or if you were to use this system for a home back up in an emergency power outage, through an interlock kit, make sure your Neutrals and Grounding conductors will be separated in this Square D panel. 6/4 cable would go back to the interlock breaker. Also, only one neutral conductor is allowed per terminal. Otherwise you will have an objectionable currents flowing on all metal parts of your electrical system - dangerous condition to have. I keep finding this in people’s homes when someone would add a sub panel.
The grounding and grounded (neutral) conductors have to be connected only in one point in the house - at the main breaker panel.
Very good point if I use an interlock kit. I would absolutely separate the grounds and neutrals in the panel. That would be very dangerous if I did not. I am glad you watch Mike Holt! He is fantastic!
I was going to bring up bonding. I know in a city connection you only bond at the main breaker box and not at the subpanels. As I understand the concept of bonding is to give the electricity a return path so as to not ground out an entire system, how does that work in an off grid scenario? Do you still do bonding at the main box? Or is it a ground that is used? This is a great discussion going on here and bringing up very good points that I was curious about.
I'm trying to figure out my solar system sure glad I found the videos thank you Will.
I'm taking in so much information trying to figure out what stuff to buy and everything. It's overwhelming and now I'm finding out about grounding and it's really overwhelming I don't know anything about it.. and even your great explanation I couldn't figure out. On my new system that's similar to this one but I'm only going to have one inverter for now 120. I'm not going to have any AC input because I don't have any AC input anywhere I'm completely off grid. I was considering wiring my generator into that AC input. I guess I still don't know anything about grounding. I'm going to have to listen to the video again and again. I think you said if you have AC input you don't need ground because it's already in the AC input wires that sounds logical. I'll read it again if my comment doesn't make any sense I'll delete it.. I didn't know anything about grounding until today. Wow it's very confusing.
Mike Holt is great. I used to use his videos in my Electrical Trades Classes. For those people on here that want drawings, they should go look at Mike Holt. He does great drawings.
Should there be a neutral to ground bond screw in the sub panel box or no ?
I built my own system and I’m totally confused, it always works better when you show exactly how you’re hooking up a ground and where and why! 😳
I’ll definitely look into the links. Thanks
May I also suggest NFPA 99 ... just skim contents for meat ya want.... things will start to click and looking into the subject as you said will help us all be safer : )
Quite simply do not do this you do not know what you’re doing if you can’t understand technical language here it means you can’t understand the physical concept either you should really consult regulations
Thank you Will for expounding on this ground discussion going on on your site. I have learned a lot from Mike's lecture and from your comments. Now I need to go unhook my ground rod from my array!! This is way more complicated than most people think especially when you add in lightning.
Are you sure you want to do that? I don't think what he is saying is the same as a grounded array. if you put up a tv antenna outside I'm sure you would ground it. if lighting hit the array it will most likely enter the ground at the grounded array
Just installed an axpert max 7.2kw, and as soon as it switches some internal relays while powering on, the house goes dark. Had to remove the input ground wire for it to run. Im assuming the inverter switches the neutral to ground internally 🤷♂️
In the manual it states the pv array must not be grounded to it as well..
what about the panels? should they be grounded and bonded to each other? ( the framing)
On the subject of grounding. I have seen varying opinions on whether or not to ground the PV Array (I mean the PV frame NOT ground to inverters etc.) to Earth Grounding rod. You may want to do a video on this.
Oh good idea. Some panels, specifically CIGs, should never be grounded. That would be an interesting video.
I'd love a video on that,
I'm off grid, and run a 12v dc system with a only on when in use 3000w stand alone inverter, I'm still clueless as to whether an earth electrode is needed on the AC side can someone please explain, do I earth my solar controller? Or do I bond these to negative, battery etc?
Would like for you to test or give your opinion on the EMP Shield product to protect your equipment from pulse power surges.
Most inverters have "Enclosure Ground Terminal", also Grounding Wire Connectors on both AC input and AC Output, where do you connect the "Enclosure Ground Terminal" to? Or just leave it disconnected.
Why do some installer insist on having separate grounding systems for AC , DC and the solar stand/structure in a solar inverter?
I just purchased Will's Mobile Solar book. I like it but the very small font size makes it very difficult to read for my old eyes.
So, I have my 110v from the service panel on the pole to my inverter then off to the RV. The solar panels are mounted on top of a metal utility trailer. The panels are all connected with ground clamps and wire. WHERE do I put the ground wire from the panels? The panel at the pole is earth grounded. Thank you
I'm just a layman on the subject but I'm glad your warning people about adding extra grounds. The grounds all have to be bonded together at the same potential otherwise you are giving lightning a dangerous path through your home.
Edit: also ground bonds need very heavy wire or flashing and short runs to be effective from my understanding.
My growatt inverter specifically addresses this in the manual where I have to have an inverter controlled relay to bond and unbound my ground to neutral on the inverter output specifically when it switches back to grid power.
Perhaps you can do a video on this?
I have loads that will not run if the neutral isn't bonded to ground
Ohh is this when it is being used as a UPS? I usually disable that in my systems.
I suppose, that this relay acts as "automatic grounding relay" for the following reason. Inverter itself can be considered as independent AC source, like gasoline/diesel generator. So, if this inverter is in Off-grid mode (island mode) without any connection to AC grid, then, its output neutral must be grounded.
If inverter has AC grid connection, AND its neutral runs from AC input to AC output continuously, without any interruptions like contacts of relays, then, neutral grounding of AC output is accomplished by AC grid's already grounded neutral. Following yours descriprion of Growatt behavior and need for specially controlled relay, I think, that neutral from inverter's AC input to AC output can be breaked by some internal relays in island mode. So, this relay is needed to groung output neutral locally, near the inverter itself. The same requirements for output neutral grounding are exists in the world of Telecom inverter systems (DC 48 V to various AC voltages). We also need to ground AC output neutral in case of absence AC input connection to AC grid.
@@WillProwse I run solar as my primary and the grid as my backup. The grid neutral and ground are bonded in the main panel. So when I'm running in grid mode all loads function normally. When the batteries charge up and it switches back to the inverter my loads stop functioning because the neutral and ground output of the inverter are not bonded. By code I can only have 1 neutral to ground bond in the system. If I connect neutral to ground on the inverter output without a relay I end up with 2 bonds when it switches back to the grid.
The growatt has normally open and normally closed wire connections for this exact purpose to control a bonding relay.
Yep, @john, it's a requirement in my country, when the inverter operate on battery, neutral must be connected to ground. Mppsolar inverter don't do that. Shutdown ac input and check the voltage between neutral and ground. Should be zero, but its not on mppsolar inverter. You can find a grounding box, wich is simply a relay that connect neutral to ground under a condition controls by the inverter optional relay output. Need a special firmware version to activate the relay when ac input is not present. Otherwise you can implement the same thing with voltage detection on ac input and some relay. The thing is mppsolar is totally speechless about grounding to neutral regarding regulation and theirs products.
In Growatt 5kw manual it says earthing must connect to the Inveter.
but can not see earthinhg point
2000w SunGoldPower inverter charger fed from my house 120v, and from 3 X 100w solar panels. All feeding 4 X 100ah LiFePo4 batteries. House is earth grounded. What I hear you saying is that I should remove my earth ground on my solar panels ASAP?
More explanation on the ac input please, as this is off grid, are we assuming the ac input is a generator with its own true earth (rod) and does it have a men link?
I have a question, is that gray power panel a main panel or a sub panel? As a main I have no problem with it,just it has no main shutdown in it. If it’s a sub panel the grounds and neutral should be separated not bound together. What you are saying is right, one grounding point in the main panel box. But you can have more than one ground from that main box. Hear we have to have at less two a two ground rods or a ground rod and be bounded to the water pipes.
What a about grounding for my inverter power in my RV?
Should I ground the case to the negative (chassis) on my DC system?
Perfect!!! If anyone disagrees with anything he said here go back and listen to it over and over and then study electrical engineering and electrical theory and you will then understand that everything that was said is spot on. Thank you Will.
If an Inverter sticker on the side of the case say Nominal Operating Voltage 240VDC what does that actually means ?
I was wondering what the best way to ground the eg4 hybrid minisplit would be. Should the panels be earth grounded separately?
Excellent, and I fully agree (see 0:50). Approx quote: Even if you have two or three Grounding Electrodes you want to tie it together at one place'. Many absolutely stand by the fact that there can only be ONE Grounding Electrode period! They have no understanding of what Single-Point Grounding actually means! Many even think grounding attracts lightning which is directly opposed to sound engineering practices.
I have a single grounding rod connected to bare copper wire that runs to all my pv and inverter generator panel etc. in an outbuilding that feeds my RV. This is only for lightning protection and I have no AC input. Did I do it wrong?
Please provide some visualization on this topic. I have seen an end to end Inverter/Electric Sub-panel/Battery setup video and the gentleman there grounded the whole system with a true grounding electrode. Basically a separate grounding bus bar in the subpanel which is connected to inverters as well as true ground electrode outside.
So do I disconnect the earth ground in my midnite solar combiner box or leave it in place when I hook my solar panels to my inverter
Great job explaining the shock hazard. Also GFIC breakers are a great way to save your life. All my shop outlets are fed buy GFIC breaker.
I've never analyzed the grounding like you. But I've just followed the instructions. But I have thought about adding another grounding rod.
Good information. Appears that sub panels need to have isolated neutrals so faults go back to main panel. Grounding electrodes for lighting protection.
Is that considered a sub panel since it is all by it's self? Or a "main panel"? I was wondering if it would need to have separate neutral and grounding bars.
On a related matter, I have hard question. My EV using the V2L cable produces a 240v supply that does NOT have a earth by default. So how can I power appliances which expect a AC supply with a earth ? Please help ….
Will, be very careful discussing marine "grounding" as it can get tricky and lead to ALOT of corrosion for any metal touching the water. Stray current for marine is a big deal.
Very true
Yeppers, sacrificial anodes is an interesting subject for others who are curious about this. Best
This is an area where even qualified marine technicians can get it wrong. Be very cautious about offering advice.
@@gregoryyount6907
And every boat is different. Wood, fiberglass, steel or aluminum hull and composition of below water line hardware. Then you have “under protected, over protected and the just right. Where will it spend most of the time fresh, salt or brine. Types of anode metals, bond or not to bond and bond to what? Neutral switch over to ground, isolation transformers, equipment current leakage. Oh the list goes on. It’ can be a science. Wrong gets expensive.
And land electricians think they got it rough Lol!
Check out the victron unlimited PDF for some basic marine grounding advice: www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf
ABYC and this book is where I get my info on marine systems from: www.amazon.com/Boatowners-Mechanical-Electrical-Manual-4/dp/0071790330/ref=asc_df_0071790330/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312176357948&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3157251246000314898&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030754&hvtargid=pla-333901114316&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60258871137&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312176357948&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3157251246000314898&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030754&hvtargid=pla-333901114316
A local grounding to your own earth spike would make sense in case of an outage of commercial power, which would cause you to lose their ground reference. But in such a case, you’d also need to have an Earth-Neutral Bridge (the single point where it’s all bonded), which flips automatically between commercial power ground and your own local ground, depending on if the commercial provider is up or down.
Surge protection on for each fuse box on the PV side is definitely a plus. I use 500V SPD’s.
No... loss of utility input does not interrupt earth grounding at the meter. Only way to interrupt that would be to disconnect the earth conductor feeding the ground rods at the residence ot the pole.
@@SuperVstech Not my experience… I have SMA PV inverters, and every time we had a loss of mains AC, we had a PE (potential earth) fault that caused the inverters to stop making power because they assumed grid failure, even with the micro grid present. An Earth-Neutral bridge bonding that also included a local ground spike fixed this.
@@DJMT-Africa If there wasn't a neutral to earth ground bond at the the main disconnect, then that was your problem, and it would have been in violation of code. Downstream panels/subpanels from that point onward must have their grounds and neutrals separated, unless it falls under some exception.
@@davereichert It could be that code in my country is different than in the U.S.
Dude ur channel Came on my recommendation, glad i found...ur videos are awsome and well explained..
If I am building a shed solar panel system with no plan to connect to the grid and no plan to have AC from the house connected to the shed (200 feet away), should I place ground rods and thus ground the solar array and inverter?
Excellent! I feel slightly responsible! Something I didn't realize when watching other vidy (off grid title?) that you had an earth ground elsewhere. Absolutely correct, grounds loops are dangerous and can cause electrical problems with certain equipment.
Bottom line, follow local code, mfg instructions. Any exposed conductive surfaces that encloses a potential (voltage) should be PROPERLY grounded to prevent shock. exceptions like double insulated code etc, ya need to check code. And yea, seen double insulated fail.
And my apologies, didn't realize you DID have a proper grounded case (breaker box) enclosure.... thought off grid.
Thanks,
Ken
I did not understand that either . If it was said during the video . I missed it . Be safe out there folks ... Gubs
That was important to note that you had an established ground elsewhere already. I would also consider 110.26 as a good practice(batteries below equipment)
One more thing you need to understand about AC grounding is "Bonding" this provides a path for the electricity to trip the breakers from a grounded short circuit. Bonding is usually provided by a ribbon in the back of your breaker box that goes from ground to neutral. If you have multiple boxes, only bond your ground to the neutral in the box closes to the incoming service and remove the bonding connection in all boxes feeding the main box. Make sure grounds are in place to all wiring to other boxes. This provides only one path for a large surge or lightning.
Please help...I am off grid with 2 victron inverters isplit phase. Everything works great but rainy season is coming and we get big lightning here in the rain forest. My Breaker Box "which is very close to my components is ground using a copper rod. My panels which are 50 feet away are also ground using a copper rod. Is this ok or should I unground the breaker box?
You do a very good presentation on all of your videos keep up the good work thanks..👍👍
I do have my panels on their own grounding for the panel frames and dc lines are fused incase something tries to send more amps through the dc input lines like a failed shorting inverter that backfeds ac to the panel frames.
What about a solar set up in a vehicle how do you protect against lately and does the system need grounded?
I have a Growatt 6000 , 18000 surge split phase inverter, can I connect a 120 ace wire to the inverter ac input from the house main 120 receptacle outlet to charge the 48 volt batteries.
Hi Will, I have a cuestion? I install a inverter powmr is 230, 24v 3000W off grid when I check the power in the output lines, one give me 90v and the other line 170. I conect the ground I install a ground route outside the storage.
Very interesting stuff about the "ground loop". And I have a question. My house has a ground for the sockets (with those metal rods in the ground at the corner of the house) and a separate ground (another metal bar at the opposite corner of the house, as it happens...) for the tv cable. Is that wrong? I am assuming the shield on the antenna plug at the tv is connected to the power ground. Maybe not. Am I in danger? Thanks!
Electrical codes should require all the grounding rods to be "bonded" together (i.e., there should be a direct ground wire connection between all grounding rods, which should also be no further than 16 feet apart).
You mention the bus bars are on opposite sides of the house, but that's probably fine as long as they share the same grounding rod or the grounding rods are properly bonded. If you want some piece of mind, you could trace the connection leaving the TV cable bus bar and check that it connects back to the service ground.
Grounds need to be bonded at the rods. Delicate electronics are not where bonding should occur. If the potential of your antenna ground is better than your ac ground, your entire/most of home grounding system will attempt to pass through your tv. By bonding the rods, both should have nearly equal potential and surge/emf (why you need a coax ground) will go to shortest path vs path of least resistance.
What a great community! Thank you all for trying to help me understand this better.
The antenna ground is something I did myself to get rid of EMF interference and I can tell you that is NOT connected to the mains ground. But I do wonder if TVs will connect the mains ground to the antenna ground (shield).
I need to do some better research on this. Also, this is in Europe, on a 240V connection. Some things (codes) might differ.
One more detail: the cable tv on my house (which goes to multiple tv sets) is NOT coming from outside the house. There is a fiber coming in with both internet and digital tv signal and it goes to this box that outputs internet and cable tv...
I wonder what qualifies as a large pv array? I have 13kw array and not sure if I need an SPD to an earth ground (8' copper electrode I reckon). This system is off grid if that makes a difference
So is it true with the setup you have , If you max out on one phase you are not able to use the second phase so if one inverter is maxed out the other one is useless
Is the breaker box "bonded" Will?
My solar panels are running to a midnite solar combiner box that's grounded to earth is it safe to continue on to the inverter with the combiner box being grounded to earth I'm not using the AC input part of the inverter just the output line and neutral my ground is on the side of the case with a screw
Can you make a for dummies version of this.
I bought a bigger inverter a week ago. It have ac input failover. If the battery is too low it will charge the battery to my setting and handle the ac output( i think . Havnt tested) well never plugged in the ac input until today. Works like a charm. My house doesnt seem to have any ground pin in any of the sockets. So i just skipped ground(for now). I notised the battery, 12v lifepo, makes my fingers tingle, continuesly when i touch the bare wire or the +/- directly on the cell. It never did that before. Took a sec to realise it might be grounding needed when ac is plugged in. Is that static build up or what is the cause? Now i wonder if its any danger to the battery.
I appreciate this info. I'm 100%off grid and I was curious if I should have a earth ground connected. I bought a grounding rod but have never hooked it up. I felt like it was a complete closed system and didn't believe I actually needed one.. I have a 5kw eco-worthy hybrid inverter. Connected to my camper breaker box. I also have a inverter generator hooked up to my system to charge/bypass also I have 12 solar panels.. so... Should I use my ground rod?? Thank you
Can you go over this with portable power systems such as Delta Pro and AC300/500? Do different UPS modes affect the grounding? Ideally I'd want to set up an AC500 that powers a critical loads/subpanel mostly using solar/PV Priority UPS mode but then also have a circuit from the main panel plugged in for backup. Also it would be ideal to be able to take the unit camping or use it as it as a mobile power station as needed too and just power the critical loads panel directly from the main panel then.
Also can autotransformers be used to fix/alleviate any of these issues?
Any way I can get in touch with you, so confused with this grounding thing?
Does this mean a sub panel for a house shouldn't have a grounding rod if the main panel does?
Yes exactly
Yea.
If the sub panel is in the same structure (house for instance) yes that's correct. If the sub panel is in another structure such as a detached garage away from your house a ground rod is required. The power feeding your detached garage sub panel (2 hots, neutral and ground) in this case the ground wire is bonded to a ground rod outside the garage. Definitely not the neutral to ground bonding as in the main service panel.
Excellent points, however, in places as Florida which has more than a million lightning strikes yearly it is very important to have lightning dissipators the bigger and more the better to make the system invisible to electrons Flying in both directions.
Can confirm, had my house growing up struck twice and the street a ton of times.
I can also confirm. Central Florida has widespread lightening almost every day. It’s unreal.
@@veryinteresting591 Central Florida was where I grew up! First off of OBT down the road from Gator Land and then out in Clermont. Looking back it was intense!
Thank you for the video report.
Should I chassis ground my 400w 200ah system in my van?
My plan was to ground solar panels and use ac in on inverter as the inverter wireing ground? Let me know should i run the ground from solar as well?
SO WHAT WAS THE ANSWER FOR THE QUESTION IN THE TITLE?
Hi man, need some help here if possible.
I have a small one 450w panel system with a 12v 250amp battery to run only my fridge(smart inverter), i am playing arround and testing and stuff.
I am conected to the grid, and have this small setup, but the two are separate, and i have no intention to join them.
My intention is to have two grids in my house, the grid, and my grid, to later on further grow my grid.
¿Is it a good idea to ground this system?
I have the neigbours comunity antena in my top terrace wich has a ground. ¿Would it be ok to conect ground there? This ground is from the grid, not my own.. is that a problem ??
This now raises my own questions. Is it possible I can send you a YT link to a video of my setup with my current ground configuration, get your feed back?
Great video, but I had a question about these inverters. I went on their website and found that these are “off grid” inverters. What is this “AC input” that you refer to in your video? Is that for AC charging?
They have many types of inverters, I think the ones Will has are "hybrid". You have 120V in from the grid yes. That can be used to carry loads or charge batteries when the solar array isn't producing. You can choose what power to use for the load side of the inverter... give priority to the solar and batteries or the grid etc... depends what your goal is. Lots of people just use these things as a type of online UPS for critical circuits and the batteries are just there if the grid fails. One of the inverters cuts out the need for transfer switches and is flexible on where it gets energy ... arrays, generators, the grid - everything but rubbing two sticks together. I've powered/charged mine with a step up transformer using the dual alternators in my truck (36V @50amps step up)
Depends on what type you buy. I have these hybrid off grid inverters and I can use it completely off grid with a generator as a back up or connect it to the grid if the battery bank is depleted and no sun.
Will, the "Wiring Unlinited" publication clearly shows negative DC bus grounded in an offgrid system. Are you suggesting to go against this, or is the real problem when there are 2 ground rods in 1 system?
Depends on your environment and wiring configuration. And your local regulations. It's really up to you on these systems. If you need to do that then do it
You are absolutely correct..!! It is clear you either studied your ass off self-taught or took engineering because you're always spot on!
from my prespective i understood that your earth is not bonded to neuteral inside the inverters .and you just have earth for the apliances you connect to your system !!!! am i right ? ?
The comprehensiveness of this video makes it a true standout. I have struggled to explain my particular situation, and I now understand that I need to describe other situations that would require earth grounding, how and why may be the missing piece. Truly excellent work!
Do you have a video on grounding of solar inverter charger systems in RVs?
Should I ground my solar panel array to earth?
I can see adding a ground rod only if this is for an off grid 120VAC or a 120/240VAC system.
In this case, it would be the only ground rod.
Otherwise, you are correct, 1 ground rod at the service entrance only when connected to a grid-tie system.
But, what if you are using a 120VAC inverter in combination with a relay that redirects the load back to grid when the inverter turns off?
The grid side is grounded, but the inverter side would not be.
I have several of these systems, and I tied all my grounds together on each one.
This grounds the inverter cases and the inverter output.
Whilst this is an old video it still talks about getting an electrical shock by electricity passing through the body and going to ground. Electricity does not go to ground, it goes back to the source (a circuit) if it does travel through the earth it is to get back to the source - not just to go to ground. This is key in understanding AC.
I have a 3K hybrid inverter with a shore power plug. When using shore power a test of an unloaded socket shows wiring to be correct. However, when using the inverter without shore power, an indicative light suggests that there may be a wiring problem....Is it normal for this to happen? Also, I have safety switches and breakers in place and all seems to work well.......Thanks
It's amazing to me how many people misunderstand the purpose of earth ground. Mostly people seem to think that earth ground protects them from getting shocked somehow. Lack of "earth" ground doesn't mean you don't have a ground at all, it's just not tied to earth. Your ground wire still acts as an emergency return path to the breaker box to trip the circuit breaker if needed, but that ground wire doesn't need to be tied to earth to perform that duty.
By not having an earth ground you're actually decreasing the chance of being shocked. Since the "earth" you're standing on is no longer a conductor you can no longer get shocked by simply accidentally touching a hot wire because there is no "return path" through the earth for that current to flow through your body.
In fact: a common piece of safety equipment used by crews working in outdoor / wet environments is something called an "isolation transformer". It's a 1:1 transformer (So it doesn't step up or down) that plugs into a wall socket and creates a new electrical connection that creates an "isolated" electrical path that is no longer referenced to ground. This is used as a piece of safety equipment because by removing the earth ground as a return path for the current it makes it safer to use electrical equipment outdoors in wet conditions.
Off grid inverters achieve the same result as an isolation transformer. They effectively "isolate" the electrical system from earth.
You don’t ground your generator if you plug in to a appliance!
You also don’t ground your sub panels
Circuit breakers are overcurrent devices, and will not trip on a ground fault that isn't overcurrent. Please fix your comment.
This isn't worded accurately:
"Your ground wire still acts as an emergency return path to the breaker box to trip the circuit breaker if needed..."
As a counterpoint, not bonding to earth ground your system ground can float significantly above or below earth ground. You will then become a path for that equalization. Usually it's under a hundred volts and very little current BUT it can get crazy in certain situations. This effect is one of the big reasons we all ground to Earth and don't encourage floating ground.
@@FrancisKoczur Circuit breakers aren't designed to trip on "ground faults" at all in any circumstance. In fact a "ground fault" would make a circuit breaker *less likely* to trip because a "ground fault" generally means the return path is compromised in some way.
The purpose of the "ground" wire in a circuit is to provide an "low resistance" emergency return path to the breaker box. The "low resistance" piece is key to this. By providing a low resistance return path if the hot wire were to come loose and touch the metal case of an appliance the low resistance return path would ensure the breaker trips as many amps would instantly flow through that return path.
A "ground fault", by definition, is a condition where this return path is removed or damaged, which would prevent the breaker from tripping and would create a shock hazard if the hot wire in an appliance become loose, frayed, etc.
Circuit breakers do not protect against ground faults unless they are GFCI type circuit breakers. GFCI protects against ground faults, circuit breakers do not.
Either way the situation does not change based on whether your ground is tied to earth or not. The low resistance return path from the appliance to the breaker box is what's important, not whether or not the breaker box ground is also attached to earth.
@@oshavlfarms7239 As a counter counterpoint: Every time someone uses a portable generator, or one installed in an RV or truck, or any kind of mobile/portable inverter such as one installed in any kind of vehicle, they are utilizing a floating ground. Think about how many thousands of people are using one of these floating ground devices every day from long haul truck drivers who aren't allowed to idle their engines and yet no-one seems overly concerned about the danger.
That's because the amount of charge buildup on these smaller scale systems is not very large. Even if there was a significant voltage differential of 100+ volts: it would be the same as touching a tiny capacitor which was charged to that same voltage. The reason why it's not a big danger is because it would result in a microscopic amount of current flow and it's large amounts of current, not voltage, that is dangerous.
With something as massive as the grid that's a real concern, and which is why it's earth grounded. But with a small off grid system it just isn't.
William you are so informed thank you
You know a lot about electrical. I do not have a solar system but EVERY time there I'd an electrical storm, my breaker trips and we sit in the dark until the storm passes. If I flip the breaker switch, it just trips again when lightening flashes. I thought we needed a ground but after this video, I'm not sure. We do have a metal roof. Can you explain why or how I can fix this problem?
You need to explain in more detail what you have? what breaker trips? Is your solar tied into your grid? Are you using any ground rods besides what is in your home? Are your panels connected to your metal roof?
It seem confusing to get the correct info for solar subpanels. These are not subpanels from from a grid main panel. Their basically their own panel so I don't see why they should tie back to main panel in anyway. My issue is how to ground that panel and do I bond the neutral bar to panel as well? I have neutral bar and a separate ground bar. I have the Growatt and is connected to 120v in from my main(for fallback), as well as my solar PV. And then I have the 120 output to my subpanel of which I have 3 circuit breakers connected. Seems to work fine with standard circuit breakers, but when I tried to put in a arc-fault circuit breaker, it trips immediately.
Grounding grounding the DC bus side help with lightning strikes on the panels if somehow the lightning struck one of the power cables?
Hello Will, should all solar panels be grounded, if yes, can they be grounded to a ground rod separate from the main ground rod?
you mentioned a marine application. If you are at sea and have a solar system with a gen backup and an inverter providing onboard 110/230 v to ship systems how is a ground obtained?
One thing I haven't seen in any solar vids on youtube is do you ground to your chassis in a pickup truck caps house battery solar setup with inverter that's not tied into the start battery
Will, Great point. A similar question relating to those solar generator/power stations. I believe they are not truly grounded. The A/C output runs on floating neutral. What if, when the A/C charge input is connected. Would the power station be grounded during the time through the A/C input cable? Now, would the ground pass through to the A/C output if there were output load plugged in the A/C output jack?
Code requires separate grounding electrodes for sub panels in outbuildings. You bring across 4 wires from the primary panel to the sub (L1, L2, N, GND), and you do not bond GND to N at the subpanel. That is to avoid current loops. But the remote subpanel DOES get it's own grounding electrode which is then connected to the ground bus bar in the sub panel and the ground pulled from the primary. A subpanel adjacent to the primary panel does not require its own grounding electrode, because the path to the primary is so short. So the question here is how far away is that sub panel from the primary. Even IF in the same building.
The sub panel in this situation is feef from the inverter. It's not a sub panel of the grid connected system. The only ground connection between this system and the grid feed system will be with the grid supplied feed to the inverter, if and when that happens.
i do not understand my brain is still new to this. so you mean to say, "do not ground your solar panels but instead, ground your inverters" and put a surge protector on both the dc side and the ac side of the inverter.
so if you ground your solar panels direct to earth ground, and a lightning strikes the ground near your earthgrounding, there's a chance that the lightning will travel from the grounding itself direct to the panel. moreover, a direct lignting strike in panels will yield damage regardless if grounded or not? grounding the solar panels is useless and more dangerous in that regard? please correct me. i do not know what i'm thinking anymore.
My system has 4 separate ground rods, grid AC ground, inverter AC ground and two solar panel/combiner box ground.. The AC ground is common through the grid breaker panels, the inverter ground is common to the inverter AC breaker panel and the charge controllers with a ground rod in the basement at the inverter box.. All these are bonded together to create a ground field of sorts which 99% eliminates all electronic noise from the system into my amateur radio gear.. There are 6 surge arrestors and several MOV devices spread throughout the wiring, 1 two phase AC arrestor at the main grid breaker, 1 two phase AC arrestor at the primary sub panel, one DC arrestor for each of the solar panel arrays, two AC two phase arrestors near the inverter and its AC distribution panel, one MOV at each of the eight breakers in the solar combiner box, one from solar - to ground, several factory MOV's on the inverter and each charge controller, 80a GFI/arc fault breakers and MOV's between the neutral and ground in every panel.. Could something get past all that? Yes but if God wants to kill it it's going to smoke.. I also have 5 ground rods on my radio tower and antenna poles because lightning has hit them so many tomes every tree in 250 feet has scars..
Why do o have ac voltage at ground like 80 v
i buy a hybrid inverter with AC input as charger. the AC input already have ground. but the AC output only has load and netral line. there is ground mark below the AC output, i believe that is the cable ground from output should be connected. do i need to make another ground? or just paralel existing ground to those AC output. i still don't understand, why the AC output doesn't have line for ground, they need to be separated place in hybrid inverter. sorry if this is a dumb question..
Hi Will. Thanks for the tech tips. I have a question, My pv is over vaulting my inverter, But only when windy. The Panels are in series, with a combined voltage of 73 V and the inverter is 100v max.
Hey will absolutely love your content. I have a pretty funny hypothetical question. Technically since no grounding rod or true earth ground is needed, and this system is in fact floating. Could the main breaker panel be constructed of plastic (of course with identical internals)? Would that further reduce any potential shock hazard? I only ask because the main reason most panels are in fact metal is due to the panel/grounding rod connection am I correct there? Thanks
I am also absolutely acknowledging the fact that metal is in fact safer than plastic in terms of fire safety, durability. This situation would involve smaller loads like a 25-30 amp panel.
Hello Will, do I need to connect each of my solar panels to an earth wire or not. I have a 16kw array with two 8kw off grid inverters in parralel.
Excellent video, Will. A question: Let's assume you were NOT connected to an AC input with an earth-connected ground and were truly grid independent. Would you then connect your breaker panel to a true earth ground? I assume so. The reason I ask is that some people might have a system whereby they are *sometimes* connected to an AC input with earth-connected ground (tiny house on wheels connected to extension cord) but sometimes they are off grid with no AC input. Would you have to disconnect and reconnect an earth ground to this breaker panel depending on if AC input is available?
There is the argument that on some devices, static accumulation can cause a shock if not connected to true earth. I have never experienced it before. Having a floating system, not connected to earth at all, is not necessarily dangerous. I'm still trying to find devices that can accumulate charge as I've read from multiple sources. I test for potential in the cases of my equipment and have never found it. Besides that, I don't see any issue having a floating system.
@@WillProwse RCDs, RVDs?