How much Power does the Lotus Make?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- As one of the most exotic cars on the road, just now much power does the Lotus really make? We strap down the supercharged Lotus Exige S240 to see how much power it spins up, and if any power has been lost over the years. Tuning Fork also sheds some light on the myths and mysteries of drive train loss and dyno figures.
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Strap some CHOPPED SOCKS to your feet for extra kw! mightycarmods.com/collections/clothing/products/chopped-socks
Some Chopped Socks for that Feet Cred, there fixed it LOL 😁😁
👏👏I will do whatever the Lotus Moog says........
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
👏
That was a pretty graceful entry into the car Scott!!
Tuning fork is so big - he doesn't get in a lotus, he puts it on
like his speedos, one leg at a time
It's like a slim fit tailored suit, too.
HELP MY!!! My muscles are too big! I am a big tall man and my muscles are even BIGGER! I use them to get views but they HURT so much!!! Because they are heavy. Do you have any advice, dear geo
It is a bit like a shoe, a running shoe! 👟
I know that feeling.
Everyone: Tuning Fork! That’s a beautiful suit you’re wearing!
Tuning Fork: Thanks! It’s a Lotus!
::clap::
@@tehllama42 Actually brother, this deserves a golf clap...with the build up and eventual fade out.
👏👏 x2 lol
👏 we love tuning fork, he's pretty much a member of the show
Moog can't cope with the thought of a driver mod being the only necessary mod here
He might consider a little 👏👏 bit of driver's training from the Australian Stig or someone else who actually knows 👏👏👏👏 what he's doing on the track though.
I'm willing to bet those old dry tires are the source of all of your issues at the track. Gotta get some new skins. Four of them. You need a new fourskin Moog.
Always make sure you have some good rubbers with ya when you're trying to handle the curves.
I honestly just assumed they had already gotten new tires. This could make a huge difference.
And he is scared of the redline. And when they boost the engine power, then they should be scared of the redline. While stock, you can redline it all day long.
Could be that but likely it's because he's driving it around mid revs where it has less power than other cars he's used to. Unfortunately it looks like this has to be at the limit all the time in order to perform at its best, and even there the power to weight ratio isn't anything amazing so he might have a hard time going noticeably faster than in his FRS
The Lotuses are very sensitive to tiny changes, even with the aero as it's all functional. Tyre choice, PSI, age etc all makes a big difference. They need attention to detail which normally wouldn't bother most casual trackday drivers. They need someone with experience of setting up racing cars really.
They should probably take it back to factory spec and work from there. Start with just a track focused geometry setup.
👏all hail “TUNING FORK” 🙌🏻
I am imaging the locker in movie men in black
At exactly 0:08 we can see a beautiful little blue thing just chilling that they deny they owned 😂
the cup holder comes out for weight savings because: lotus!
B b b b bass cli....oh wait wrong car
Golf ball in water sound effect was spot on. This guy can do anything.
Even fit into a Lotus :-)
On this episode of MCM. Man wears a car, we retrive a golf ball and Moog finds out if he needs more power.
TONIGHT! On mcm...
And you all read that in Jeremy Clarkson’s voice.
Bottom gear
I must be hallucinating. I saw Marty’s blue TooEvo that he never owned at 0:08
It went on to Dave from Haltech I think.
this is honestly one of the greatest looking cars ever made
As a mechanical engineer, I agree with tuning fork's statement on drivetrain loss being more of a constant as opposed to a fixed percentage value irrespective of power 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Hahaha...butt
Also don't you think that it gets exponentially higher as the speed increases? Because the kinetic energy rule (.5mv^2)
Friction losses are linear generally. Aerodynamic drag is exponential (squared) with speed (mostly)
Yea but if you're putting more power through a gearbox you're gonna lose more to heat. I think its a little more than just a constant value.
@@grizoh correct. It is actually a bit of both. There are drivetrain losses that are independent of power throughput (only rpm) and others also depend on torque.
👏Been thinking that for years. Everything being the same, except the engine, you had 200hp, now 500hp, you had 40hp loss, now everything being the same but now 500hp and you have 100hp loss... spot on!!!
👏T👏U👏N👏I👏N👏G👏F👏O👏R👏K👏
one for the drivetrain loss explaination and
👏T👏U👏N👏I👏N👏G👏F👏O👏R👏K👏
one for wearing that cool Evora-Jumpsuit!
10:42 Scotty's hand all banged up from smashing page up too hard.
"PAGE UP PAGE UP PAGE UP ... owch!" 😂👍
👏T👏U👏N👏I👏N👏G👏F👏O👏R👏K👏
"It's so slow around the track. Must be low on power!"
I saw this dyno result coming a thousand miles away. haha
To be perfectly Fair, Peak horsepower numbers aren't really the best measurement for acceleration capability. Area underneath the curve is a far more significant Factor when talking about these things. Turbocharged cars making the same peak hp tend to make that power for significantly more rpm range than na or centri charged engines.
@@MCXL1140 As we saw in the dyno video, the curve looks pretty much exactly as it did from the factory. Nothing wrong with this car. It just requires a different driving mindset to go fast.
@@BlueBenGo his alignment is trash, hes loosing traction in situations that it should be stuck like glue. Yes hes part of upsetting the cars stability, but not all of it.
Moog I'm giving you the clap👏
Moog: I don’t know how to drive this car
Also Moog: MORE POWER!
Driver mod is over rated lol
RIP.
He is not even using 100% of the stock power, why does he need more...
Obviously you need a forged engine, larger SC, ethonol and 600+hp to get round the bends in a lotus... 🥴
I'm waiting for the "IN This episode on MCM we rebulid martys STI"
redirect to the wrecker's you mean.
👏👏👏
@@nelizmastr HAHA best one yet
"We LS swap and stick a Haltec in the STI, The Lotus, The Mini, the Kei truck AND the city mopeds."
Sooner rather than later
I need tuning fork in my car. It would go heaps faster..
What happened to tuning forks hand.... too many of these 👏👏👏👏👏
You make some beautiful music for these videos moog 🤗 I'd love to chat about what synth setups you use some time. I struggle to create my desired sounds for trance tracks
For tuning fork's explanation of power loss from crank to wheels. Even though it seems like common sense to me that it varies from car to car.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
some degree of percentage does make sense as friction is directly proportional to the force applied
@@mycosys I'd say a combo of a constant and a small percentage.. but each drivetrain is different so it deffo is not x% of the engine power for each car..
"First shoes off, because that gives me an extra inch" That's what I tell all the ladies...
Best thing I have seen all week tuning fork squezing into that lotus. A coworker is 6 ft 6 inch tall and told me had a 1966 beetle in highschool. Told him I would die to see him getting in and out of it. hahahaha
This is why I love my 2ZZ powered car!
VVTLI is soooo gangster
So, no one's gonna mention Marty's old Evo that was sitting in the shop in the opening scene
First thing I noticed lol. Good spotting
What are you talking about Marty never owned an Evo he did dream about one once though
@@sameoldschmidt6191 oh right, how could I forget, yes I mean the one that he dreamer about
Indeed...
Marty did own an Evo 9 once but he had to 'sell' it because he lost to Moog's Golf R lol
Love the thought process:
- Got an amazing Lotus, look at it!
- Took it to the track! It's slow...
- Took it to the dyno to see how much power it actually makes, so we can tune it properly
👏👏👏👏
My neck hurts just watching Scotty sitting in this car
What Mr Fork said about loss being a flat rate rather than a percentage makes 100% sense and I've honestly never ever heard anyone suggest it's a flat rate but I'm already convinced.
I love that this is 13:37 long. Well done guys.
I am sure your plans are well under way but these engines are pretty strong internally. They can run 300bhp/220kw all day long. MP62 supercharger, plugs and fuel pump will see you at easily 300bhp, maybe a smidge more if you have a good exhaust already.
I had no idea that Tuning Fork was so GINORMOUS!!
Tires are years and years old? Could that be one of the reasons the handling wasn't predictable on track/at the limit?
That is what he was implying.
I am sure it had a lot to do with it. They tend to get hard and that leads to unpredictable.
👏👏👏 Thank you TuningFork for saying what needed to be said
this is legit one of my dream cars tho i perfered the elise over the newer version so happy to see someone doing one of these underated cars and cannot wait to see some videos with it vs others
👏👏👏👏👏 To the tuning fork. Here in the states, we just use a percentage to calculate the loss due to experience. We see this as a generalization... a guess at best, not gospel. To get an accurate number, you just have to run it on the dyno. Even then the number is just a more accurate guess as folks here calibrate their dyno's differently.
When moog says "and that will now be fixed" my eyes widened...
Is this madman going to turbocharge the lotus??
Turbo supercharged :P
Lotus Superturbo.
No.
@@MasterofSpiders I wonder what kind of honk a Lotus Superturbo makes.
the just need to change sam pulley and reflash the ecu for More mid range
Can I suggest an experienced Lotus driver take you around the track a few times to help you push past your comfort zones
Fingers crossed this is what will be happening soon with one of our experienced Aussie racing drivers so that we can help the guys get up to speed as quickly as possible. We know it will put a smile on their face from ear to ear :-)
👏👏👏👏 for “Tuning Fork”
When tested in the UK years ago all of the Toyota engined S2 Elise/Exiges made more power than they should. Lotus seemed to just list the standard Toyota specs for engine, but some made way more than that on Lotus' ECU. They use much lighter running gear as well.
Moog always: "Tyres are king. Check your tyres, change your tyres, upgrade your tyres."
Also Moog: "I don't know why my car with antique tyres won't go around corners or put power down - better hit the dyno and overhaul the suspension"
Must be kicking himself!
He said they are old.. they have date sticker on them i wonder how old they are .. i have 5 year old tires and they are trash.
Alright already!!! 👏👏
Sheesh, Moog... enough with the begging! 🤣
If this gets upgraded to 500hp that's gonna be the best car ever. Lotus really does know haw to make a car!!!
Dave looks like he's fed up after having to listen to an hour of Moog's excuses for not being able to drive the Lotus properly
12:26 "I should be driving it like a P-plater in his mum's Corolla". Words to live by.
That’s exactly where Lotus source their engines! 😂
Appropriate, considering it's got a Corolla engine.
Thanks, respect to the Tuning Fork....again and again and again...specialists for sure.
I'm surprised it still retained all the power! I've heard issues with the cams getting a little worn leading to decreased power on the Exige, so glad yours isn't seeing that. Looking forward to the mods and you gaining mastery with this weapon!
Tuning Fork makes me wanna go back and finish the last 4 months of my Motorsport Engineering degree. lol.
Why havent you finished it? :D
Do it online son follow ur dreams I know u got it in u
Why did you stop with so little left. Go back and do it!
where do you go to school for motorsport engineering? I’m in the US in school to get an ASE cert in an auto mechanics program
Go back and do it
Bravo...
I do think there is a constant + variable rate for the loss of power from transmission.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
The HUGE problem with trying to reconcile 'factory' power levels with acceleration runs is that the former is a steady state, and the latter has additional parasitic losses incurred with torque being required to accelerate the entire transmission train.
If you want more 'power', put a lighter wheel assembly on, over-inflate the tyres, try different gears, change the viscosity of the oils, etc - all those, and more, will alter the 'power' without actually doing anything to the engine.
A real-world of example of the "Do you find something comical about my appearance when I am driving my automobile?" guy from the Simpsons. You love to see it.
well done tuning fork !!!
Pretty happy with my 2zz NA Spyder after seeing this. Unopened 2nd hand motor 160hp at the wheels
What happened to tuning fork’s hand?! Also, 👏🏻👏🏻 for the truth.
He failed at the no nut november challenge.
@@Gentleman...Driver 🤣
@@Gentleman...Driver you could say he completed the No Nut November challenge ..
@@boyimace No he completed destroy dick december challenge before december even started.
As a bloke who's 6'8" and 300lbs I'm dropping a 👏👏👏👏 just for TF actually getting inside it lol
👏 Tuning Fork is a National Treasure
I’m still curious to see how Marty is goin to race that beast of a car with his little tonka truck
Lotus will break down 🤣
Step 1: wait for moog to spin out
Step 2: profit?
Take a shortcut throttle grass ;)
@@xZulfur if it were lotus before they started using some Toyota engines then i would agree, however the Yamaha tuned VVTi in these was very decent for reliability. I had one with 160k miles on.
Rotary swap
Moog and Marty - maybe make an episode where you guys invest in yourselves with some track driving training with an instructor.
Then you can really enjoy the mad machines that you build to the fullest :)
So true... Moog couldn't keep the Lotus facing the right way with the power it already has. Any more power, it'll probably end up on it's roof!
What exactly makes you think they haven't done this?
@@bimmaman lol yeah, even if the car has bad tires and a bad suspension setup there’s still a lot of value investing in the driver mod.
FWD, RWD, AWD, they all need to be driven differently.. Grip racing vs drifting.. building is fun but so is driving.
I thought I was the best until I was humbled in a ride along with a pro, it left me bewildered lol
Wether you’re humbled by a lotus or a pro, accepting that you have a lot to improve and tackling that is the way to go.
Driving at the limit can be mostly terrifying or mostly thrilling, it’s your training that makes the difference.
This is the way. Lol
This is excellent advice.
This would make some good alternative content
@mightycarmods, for reference: i have a first generation MR2 with the 80’s Corolla engine. It made 249rwhp. Heavily modified but with the original 1.6 liters.
I’m surprised this S240 made 180rwhp~.
richard holdener did a video about drive train loss and it made me rethink how it works too he said it's a mechanical loss so it's generally very fixed yes heat and sound come into play but generally don't effect final output much until you get big big numbers .. so it's more a parasitic "accessory" loss ( including the drive train in the accessory, so basically anything driven by/ attached to the motor) which is always going to be the same effort to turn all those things unless you change the size/ weight of one of the rotational pieces. which this all makes perfect sense to me .. your trans isn't harder to move when you double the power nor is your water pump or alternator. once i thought about it i realized the error of my own and many others ways .. yes it may be 15% at stock but just take that number as your "drivetrain loss"
he also used a car on both engine and chassis dyno as well as multiple mods as well :)
Lotus "We made a perfectly balanced car"
MCM "We sticking in some epic mods, for more punchy"
Well it is called MCM, not MCOEM
@@brianjanssen1993 the last episode he was "Restoring" it as per the Lotus experts, His suspension has been dialed in by a muppet and is higher than factory. Now he is "Boosting mid range", on a car he was spinning out with a smooth curve, that's using a hammer to cover for weakness if he wants to save face on a track day by using raw speed then tickling it slowly through corners.
No mid rear car does well with a blast of power, he will need to learn this as they seem to be branching from Street mods to Track weapons, yes they still use mods but the philosophy is totally different when you are wanting lap times instead of "More grunt"
@@lapinlogic6267 I was just joking, and that was quite a long response from you, but I agree with you.
@@lapinlogic6267 those are my thoughts as well. Having tyres that old on probably didnt remotely help either imo
Just for Tuning Fork: 👏👏
Love the red tow shackle but it does look like an Abarth logo at adistance!
Lotus one of those few cars ive always wanted as know they have huge potential when built right
Last time I was this early Rake still loved it...
I would say unfortunately majority of subscribers/viewers here are not OG enough to get that reference.
That hit hard...
Lol
@@Martin372 Could be worse, some people came here from B Is For Build. The irony is nauseating.
I still have the sticker on my car.
👏
Did a track day on Years old tires? :/ could have seen that failed day coming knowing this
The tyres likely contributed massively to the loose back end on the track
Tuning fork said what I've been saying for years, u cant put a percentage on drivetrain loss , every car is different. 💯👍🏾👏🏾👏🏾
You're right that you can't put a fixed percentage on it, (across all cars) but it is a percentage-based loss.
@@MCXL1140 percentage based, but for a given car the percentage loss decreases as the power the car makes goes up
@@rj6110 no, it often increases, actually. Higher power cars need to run more robust rear gears and axles and gear oil. All have higher frictional losses and inertia losses (except driveshaft/propshaft, which gets lighter)
👏I’ve glad someone said it.
Hang on... Can't keep from spinning out "My car might be down on power" , Seems like legit logicing to me :P
Yeah I thought that was daft.
Unless he meant he can slow down more in the corners and make up time in the straights with more power, maybe not sure though
@@pops55650 He may as well buy a dragster if that's his goal. 3000hp down the straight pull the chutes, and idle the rest of the track.
In the last video people were passing him on the Straits when he was hammering it so wanted to check if all ok.
@@5punkybob he wasn’t revving the car out and was sharing the track with V6 Exiges. He needs to learn how to drive that car and to have the issues addressed before assuming it needs more power.
👏T👏U👏N👏I👏N👏G👏F👏O👏R👏K👏
double comment for da puuurity
@@iwantsexseemyvideo6250 Bruh....
😍💋❤️
There's also kinetic energy loss at gearbox, drivetrain and at the wheels, because if u are accelerating the engine has to move things that have MASS. This mass resists to acceletaring movement. if u are at constant speed this doesn't occure. In that case are just friction between contacting parts.
TOOEVO make an appearance 0:06
excited!!
*tires have been on this car for years... well that explains the sliding around at the track. Your sticky track tires are hard POS paperweights.
👏🏻 Totally agree with tuning fork!
👏👏👏👏All this power talk is way above my head👏👏👏👏
it just hit me..Tuning fork looks like Marv from home alone.
Lost in New York with the "Sticky Bandit" tape on his hand.
Kinda gives me Moose vibes from speed academy lol
@@noname-sd5dt holy shyte he does too
It's not weird. It's his illegitimate son, and his real name is Barv.
Hahaha I knew he looked like someone
Tuning Fork always wins the clap emoji! He just knows his stuff and really doesn't fluff what he doesn't and honestly states what he does! Which is a lot of stuff he does!
To bad he is wrong about percentage losses to drive train inefficiencies. It's a very well studied and fleshed out thing, both in the automotive world, and industrially.
Guy knows his stuff about fuel, air, and spark, but as it turns out, frictional and inertial losses aren't his forte.
@@MCXL1140 yeah I noticed this too, I'm currently writing a physics research paper on dynamometers. Drivetrain losses ARE NOT a constant. Very far from it. It is a percentage that is based upon each specific component of your drivetrain.
@@eepr4754 exactly. It's not even a fixed percentage it's a dynamic load-based percentage.
Of course the thing is the amount of power that most automobiles make isn't a really broad range in the grand scale of things. 15% of 500 isn't that different from 15% of 700, particularly when coming to things like measurements of acceleration of vehicles since that has just as much to do with tire grip, vehicle weight and so on.
Still, there's a litany of stuff out there that people can turn to to gain more info on the topic, it's exactly what I did when I heard this in the video and I wanted to make sure I wasn't taking the crazy pills.
Side note, there was a really good article about rotational losses in one of the major tuner magazines about a decade ago. They swapped the brakes on a Mitsubishi evolution with a very lightweight multi-piece rotor set and measured a ROUGHLY 30 peak horsepower increase at the wheels. Because, losing less power to rotational inertia is HUGE.
@@MCXL1140 wow that is surprising even to me. 30 hp??? I knew inertia was a bitch when it came to drivetrain losses but man that's a lot. I'm definitely going to find this and add this as a source for my research paper, very interesting. Thanks.
@@MCXL1140 this makes me wanna change the rotors on my 78 280z asap 😂😂😂
went for a simple dyno run instead gets lectured on thermodynamic losses in the system lol.
I can vouch for the "you never know what you're going to get" of a turbo car, when doing really windy roads that you only get up to 50-60mph, you have to gauge how much you're actually going to accelerate when giving the car throttle, you could either be OK or just completely exit the road
Did you guys ask the Lotus guys at the track to take it for a spin? I feel like those guys out of everyone would have been able to tell you what was up
Haha that makes me wonder if this was filmed before it
Because there is no fun in that
Definitely lowkey hurt Moogs feelings when he called it a supercharged “sports car” lmao
I thought that 'supercharged' was rather factual. I do not think a car with 240/170 hp can be a supercar.
My simple VW 3-cylinder 1.4 TDI comes close to that.
It is a sports car.
@@udovdh It's not about pure power, it's about power to weight ratio. Also, those 3-cylinders make 75-105hp depending on the model, and get a power to weight ratio of 10.4 kg/Hp at most. That's not even half the horsepower of the Lotus, not to mention the power to weight ratio. A basic Mk5 Polo with the 3-cylinder TDI weighs around 1100kg, as the Lotus weighs just 930kg, with a power to weight ratio of 3.8 kg/Hp. It does 0-100km/h in 3.9s, as the 105hp Polo does it in 9.9s. That's quite a difference.
👏 thank you tuning fork.
I believe Scotty/tuning fork was referring to the gusseting in the footwell
“I don’t know how to drive my Lotus fast without losing the rear end....needs more power, that should sort it out nicely.” 🙄
Bigger wheels, wider and stickier rear rubbers, and longer gears.
I agree with you, however . . . "Powaaaaaaaaaah" Jezza Clarkson
he did say the tyres on it were super super old, so probs just needs some 003's and shell grip up like a mad dog.
But also the power is so linearity coming on you have to drive it so different.
With a turbo you get used to and expect the turbo to kick in.. but with supercharge it's just there with no warning.
The first time I drove my mates 5.7 v8 hard I lost it around the first corner because I was used to waiting and expecting the boost to come on from owning a twin turbo manual soarer.
@@5punkybob The power is not the problem, lack of traction is... That car is so light, you pretty much need sticky wide tires, a tighter suspension setup to transfer power to the back, and probably a relaxed sway bar (or a delete) so that it rolls better in corners and doesn't oversteer as much...
is 2Evo still marty's? it did had a cute little easteregg appearance in the intro
Standing slow clap for Tuning fork. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I have almost exactly the same car and the same body color. Very intrested to see how the mods go.
5:50 'That's a lot of heat and sound' haha that's why I like this show! Well said.
They're wrong. It's okay, this is a well studied thing, you can look at any number of scholarly papers from the SAE, or from any number of industrial studies, where they are chasing every % of losses.
The losses in a drive train are a dynamic % loss, based on the components involved. The % is a curve, based on input, output, viscosity, and weight of rotating components, but it IS in fact, a percentage loss.
Now, to be losing 200 hp in a rear wheel drive car, you need to first be making somewhere between 1000 and 1700 HP, based on the studies of this that are out there.
Absolutely love the look of this car. Happy to see you guys stepping into the “supercar” realm. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 Round of applause.
Tuning fork is a snug fit in that Lotus.👏👏
its so good having Tuning Fork back
It'd be so much easier with an Elise: just pop the roof off and swing over the door, action movie style.
Also:👏👏👏
The roof comes off just the same on the exige ..
I still can't get used to tuning fork without glasses...
👏👏*throws in clap emoji for purity*
Background song please which starts at around 08:00 and keeps going for about a minute or two.
Darude sandstorm
👏👏👏 holy moly Scott is a very large guy ! No matter he's a legend !
👏👏👏👏👏 Tuning fork is a modern day jedi!