the nights watch cant have sex but its mentioned that they always sneak out to the closest town to have sex anyway in one of jons chapters and it's probably the same for the kingsguard were they just always break it in brothels probably
If i recall correctly, he didn't bother to lie because when Ned walked in, he saw the judgement in Ned Stark's eyes. Considering how close Ned and Robert were, it wouldn't have mattered. So he just cut his losses. Also, the current Jamie is a very disillusioned Jamie. The Knightsguard Jamie was still just starting to see the cruelty of the world, but could still blame only Aerys. Under Robert, he saw it wasn't just a Mad King, but a fucked up system
@@fordhouse8b Ned was also planning on killing the mad king. It was killing the king that was the issue. It was specifically the fact that Jamie killed the king as a Member of the Kingsguard, and then sat on the throne
@@cameroncrouch5843 I tend ti be a results oriented type of person. If the end is the same, I don’t much care how we get there. Ned sat on the throne when Robert was out hunting, so I don't see how that is relevant. Nothing I have seen indicates that Jamie was in any way attempting to usurp the throne for himself by sitting on that lump of metal, so I do not see how him sitting on it momentarily is relevant ion any way at all. Also, killing king who was certifiably crazy in order to replace him with someone, anyone, who is not nuts is admirable. Planning on doing so in order replace him yourself, as Robert presumably planned to do (as evidenced by the fact that he DID take the throne once Aerys was dead), is self-serving. Robert, Ned, their foster father Lord Arryn could have easily decided to depose the Mad King, and deny the throne to his next-in-line Rhaegar (because of the whole ‘abduction’ thing), and still loyally fulfilled their oaths to the Targaryen dynasty. They could have recognized young Misery’s as King. At that point Viserys was a very young boy, and was completely innocent of any crime committed by his father, or any crime (allegedly) committed by his older brother. Their crimes, both real and assumed, had absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of the dynasty as a whole. Robert was presumably a suitable candidate for the very reason that the Baratheons had extensive family ties to the Targeryans. But you know who else had family ties to them? Viserys, that's who. I fail to see how hounding him and his sister out of the country, and then marrying the daughter of the man who had two other young Targaryen kids murdered, is any less dishonorable and despicable than what Jamie did. Yet Ned didn’t seem to despise Robert. Certainly not enough that he wasntt perfectly willing to back him up in another war, against the Greyjoys this time. Jamie is right, Ned is a hypocrite.
@@fordhouse8b right, but that is Ned's flaw. He is so bound to honor, he doesn't care about the morality. That's why he still respects Barrison Selmy, even though he protected the Mad King. To Ned, it goes Honor, then Morals. That is the basis of his entire character arc in AGOT. Jamie was 100% in the right. Especially given his life. Jamie worked so hard to be a great night, like Sir Arthur Dayne. But his appointment to the Kingsguard wasn't about his skill, it was done to troll Tywin. So when he finally does something for himself, finally does something that alligns with how he views knights, he is ridiculed and judged for it. Jamie and the Hound are two sides of the same coin there. Jamie saw what a knight really was, and became that. The Hound saw what knights were, and refused it.
@@cameroncrouch5843 Honor should have required Ned to remain loyal to House Targaryen. Honor might have compelled him to rebel against the specific members of the dynasty who had wronged his family, but I fail to see how his honor demanded that Robert must be the next king instead of Viserys. If you have some thought on that very specific point, I would be interested to hear them. And I don’t mean that in a sarcastic way.
They've often referred to Night's Watch breaking their vows all the time in Mole'e Town. Jeor said if they killed everyone that broke their vows in Mole'e Town, there wouldn't be a Night's Watch left lol Also that's one of the reasons they call Jon Snow an Oath Breaker, because he laid with Ygrette. "You broke you vows with a wildling whore!" Or something like that
It's not just that he laid with a woman it's that he laid with a wildling woman that is openly killing his brothers of the watch and that the possibility that he will father a child that was half wildling half bastard. And seeing as two offspring a wildling woman and Night's Watchmen were Mance Ryder and Craster it looks really bad to dabble in that.
@@OurHiltsHurt Barriston the Bold told Quentin that Lewin Martel had a concubine and seemed to have no problems with it. That's all I can think of at the moment
@@Argos-xb8ek I would think that the rule is no major personal property like titles and lands and absolutely no women or sexual contact with anyone besides yourself. It would makes sense if the general vows for the KG and the NW match because one is based on the other and no sex in general because personal feelings and babies.
Jamie's kingslaying is a commentary on the difference in perspective from feudal society to our modern one. From the modern perspective, Jamie was justified in killing someone who was insanely cruel and unfit to rule. But in the bigger picture of Westeros, Jamie broke his oath as a kingsguard, and went against the iron rules of feudalism and patriarchy that justified Targaryen power, so he's hated. There's also a psychological aspect, Jamie was preserving some of House Lannister's (aka Tywin's) glory and choosing his house/family over his vows. characters that hate house Lannister loudly condemn Jamie, and pro-Lannister characters treat him with respect. It's a wrinkle of grey in the text when you know Jamie's full story and see the "good guys" like GreatJon Umber and Bryndyn Rivers condemning him. With Jamie, GRRM is asking: how someone can be morally justified in their personal actions and still be condemned by society as a whole?
Also he's only 17 when he committed the act. Unlike Tyrion, Jamie acts on emotion and impulse, rather than calculating his rise to power. There are many motivations to the killing, but the "final straw" that Jamie tells to Brienne is that Aerys was full of cruelty and ordering "burn them all". So it ultimately came from a heroic gut reaction to a traumatic situation
Still, there is no reason for him to not tell the truth. Even by feudal standards, it would have improved his reputation. No one judged the participants of the rebellion and people know that one also owes loyalty to one's family, and that the order to bring him Tywin's head is impossible. Jaime shouldn't have cared for the opinion of a Stark, or even climbed the Iron Throne, at least the version of Jaime we got.
After Jaime killed the Mad King, he walked up and sat on the Iron Throne. The Throne canonically is massive, not a small and uncomfortable-looking chair like in the show. The ascent towards the Throne itself is dangerous, it’s not something you can do easily. To go up the steps of the Iron Throne takes intent. Ned being the first one to see Jaime was also pretty damning for him. He had no recourse with Eddard Stark being a witness to the results of his actions.
Jaime climbing the thrones makes no sense, jsut like him caring about Ned Stark, after revealing that the Starks are nothing to him. It made sense for the original Jaime, who was supposed to seize power, but Martin changing his character created massive plot holes.
I don’t think Jaime would have ever planned to have killed the king. I think he was smart enough to know Rheagarh was planning on taking over, or that there was some conspiracy to replace the mad king and he was just going to wait out his time for the changeover. I don’t think anyone in kings landing thought Rheagarh would die and only when push really came to shove Jaime did what he had to do. His whole trauma dump on Brieanne in the bath really cemented to me that it wasn’t a thought out choice to kill Aryse, it was a fight or flight option. Either he dies, or I die along with everyone. And saying he did it for all the innocents helps him cope with the “selfish” decision of choosing his own life over that of all his oaths. And if I was Jaime I would have slit the kings throat after the fact, then pushed him back onto the blades of the throne. Put Jaime’s sword fallen near his hand so it looks like the king knew they were about to loose and rather than surrender to the enemy he killed himself to be spared and torture the rebels would do to him in a last fit of madness. And obviously pushing him on the throne would cover up the stab to the back with more stabs in the back.
Honestly he could’ve just sheathed his sword and run into a different room than come out like “oh no he sent me to get him a latte and now he’s dead, oh no”
Ned is actually just the upset and concerned disciplinarian dad for the preteen Jaime after accidentally breaking the mad kings spine whilst wrestling.
If the books get completed and published by some miracle, I'd love to see an animated retelling closer to the books with at least some returning cast (or recast them into different roles with new people as the main cast for fun).
You guys should do a what if video about what would have happened if the roles were reversed and Barristan Selmy was in the throne room and Jaime was at the Trident.
The nights watch says "we'll take no wives, father no children". Having no kids is basically saying they can't have sex cause like you guys said, "Westeros has no pull-out game" lol.
I think the way Eddard Stark meant the "you only served him when it was safe" and that comment about Jaime watching his realtives burn and doing nothing .. I think he meant it as "you only stood up against the king, when it was sure he was going to fall, when it was safe for you" cause they were already storming the Kings landing so the Mad king was like "alright imma taking all of you with me" and thats when Jaime stepped in and thats why Eddard judges him so much, cause through the conversations with Jaime he can tell that, Jaime didnt agree or was opossed to the kings actions, knew they were wrong, yet acted against it only when like virctory was assured with his own life intact or something ... idk .. yeah ... word..
@@OurHiltsHurt he tells his sister that constantly. But honestly, he could have just said that "the throne is made out of swords, what did you all think would happen?"
@@OurHiltsHurt Jokes aside, I can't really think of any other feasible thing to say for a sword wound in the back. "He sits on them all the time. Those things are meant to do that, not to be sat upon. Maybe when you make a chair for important people, you should use, I don't know, wood and padding?"
guys pretty sure he kills the pyromancer first, then he goes for the king but the king tried to run so in the back the sword goes. also pretty sure Neds the first one to find him not some Lannister correct me if im wrong.
yh i would say the Sack is happening still, but Neds the first one in the throne room and Jamie thinks it doesn't matter what he says cos of Neds honour so he doesn't bother saying anything. you could say Jamie could have just left after he killed the king but no one will believe that it wasn't him. When Ned comes in and goes ok dead king and pyro they have been stabbed the only kings guard in the city is missing Neds gunna think yeah it was probably Jamie. So I don't see anyway of him killing the king and getting anyway with it. Jamie just took it on the chin, when really he should have told Ned what happened, I think Ned would understand that it needed to be done. @@OurHiltsHurt
I'll buck up and say I love Lyanna Stark. I love her like I love Ashara Dayne and Jenny of Oldstones, as IDEAS and FADED MEMORIES of loved women. Women not known deeply enough to know how she was thinking. No Lyanna didn't make a smart choice when she ran away with Rhaegar but she wasn't raised to make good plans for war. I see this massive, ignorant screw-up in the same light as I do Sansa snitching to Cersei. Made in fear, probably under short timelines, and with incomplete knowledge. Makes me sad to hear that you hate her but I also get sad to hear people hate Sansa for the mentioned above. I just don't see it as worthy of hate, but of pity.
We still like Ashara Dayne and other but Lyanna’s attitude towards Robert was what makes us up-setty spaghetti. We will make a video one it to make our points more clear and would love to hear your feedback.
I think Jaime doesn't lie because he feels bad about breaking the oath he took not just to the king but to his fellow brothers of the kings guard who are like the only people he ever looked up to admired and respected. He doesn't see him banging Cersei as a bad thing because in his mind they are in love and so he doesn't think he deserves to be punished for that but he would think that he deserves to be punished for betraying the wishes of his brothers in arms who trusted him to keep the king safe even if he thinks the king deserves to die. also I'm pretty sure Jaime stabbed him in the back because Aerys was trying to run away so his back just happened to be turned to him when he reached the king.
Jaime stabbed the Mad King in the back because it was likely on impulse rather than a well thought out plan. Hearing Tywin's forces were routing and sieging the city rather than rallying to defend the King (since Tywin switched sides) he was going to burn King's Landing. He likely gave the order to burn the city or instructed his pyromancers to do it, along with everyone in the Keep and his Father/Father's army. Jaime likely killed him then and there in response to his order. I mean, who is going to argue with one of those dangerous swordsman who just killed the King sword in hand? Jaime hand TONS of opportunity to do so earlier because he was basically being held 'hostage' to guard the King and keep Tywin in check. He never did it until that moment. It would have had to be something big for Jaime to take a 'dishonorable' kill, as in the book and show he is all about his honor as his hero Sir Arthur Dayne was the greatest swordsman and most honorable. Makes sense to me. The fact it was Ned Stark who was the first through the doors is kind of odd but then why didn't honorable Ned Stark stop the raping/killing of all the Royal Children and Queen? Maybe that happened before?
i think another reason that jamie killed the king is that by oath he should have killed anyone who would wanna kill the king. and he knew he didn't have a chance of not dying defending him. and if he would have just surrender himself to ned stark, he still would have been called the oathbreaker or coward.
I think the kings guards and nights watch vows are the same. Visenya based KG vows on the NW vows. I don't think they make the distinction between just fucking and starting a family, like it's one in the same. Didn't Sam bring it up at some point when talking to John about gilly...
I don't really see any reason for him to lie. His attitude was "IDGAF anymore." Aerys was about to blow up King's Landing and everyone in it unless he did something, and he had already stood by and watched him burn countless people alive already. Jaime was also coming to understand the conflict of interest in all of his various vows of loyalty. He could either honor his vow to his family or his vow to the king, and either choice could be construed as loyalty to his oath to the realm as a whole considering that he had no illusions about what the Mad King was, so he chose what he believed to be the the lesser of two evils by breaking one vow to honor the others, siding with his family and sparing the innocent of King's Landing. Could he have tried to spare himself some level of dishonor? Sure, but he didn't out of spite for Ned's judgmentalism and out of personal pride, believing that he did the best he could under the effed up circumstances and that nobody else would have done any better. People can say whatever they want about him because he has absolutely nothing to prove.
I think the reason the mad King goes completely over the edge is because he heard that Reagar has been killed. In the movie anyway they say that but unsure about the books.
6:06 - he treated Tywin badly waaahhh. I can think of a few people he treated a little worse than ol' constipated bones, Tyland: you cannot CANNOT misunderstand BURNING A HIGH LORD ALIVE IN YOUR COURT WHILE HIS SON STRANGLES HIMSELF. He burned many people. I wish i could see what he did to Duskendale rebellion lady. The lord's mistress who helped orchestrate it i think i can't remember 'em all. But burning people alive INSIDE the throne room. The SMELL alone is a war crime. Even if it were smallfolk. (It's well documented that violence visited upong the smallfolk can be a crime but not a war crime. )
Just chiming in I think the reason he didn't lie is because it would have made the situation significantly worse for him. As soon as they saw him they had already made up their minds as to what he did. If he would have lied he'd probably be cut down where he stood and instead of being labeled as dishonorable he be labled a coward. Then everyone would make Jamie was a cowardly lion who can't even be man enough to accept his responsibility. Idk i genuinely don't think anything other than Yes I did it would have been better. Even if he told the truth its a King's guard vs. The death of a king. And the king cant get up and say yeah i was just crazy gonna blow people up. I wish he just immobilized the Pyromancer and then got the king but i think it was probably not a safe way of capturing him honestly so he did what was easier.
King's guard oath is in HOTD when ser Erryk swears to ward the queen give his blood for hers, take no wife hold no lands father no children. Guard her secrets, ride at her side and defend her/ his name and Honor. Something like that
@@OurHiltsHurt I still kill him, but then wait a few, months, if he does not trust tywin to help him, heck Even tell Stark, show him/both one of the caches.
Jaime couldn’t lie because his dad flew their banners and was trying to turn coat so they weren’t killed. So as soon as Ned saw him he knew Jaime did it and his father had taken over the city.
Jaime didnt kill the king, he killed the Physically and Mentally-Tortured Pyromaniacal Lordslayer (reference to his imprisonment + Wildfire + Brandon Stark). Not fit for kingship.
Jaime couldve easily just stood guard as Ned came thru and wink to Ned to give him the sign. Purposefully get disarmed and fake getting knocked out. Sure he gets a wimpy nickname but then he gets to beat up people that are obviously worse than him. Even better if Robert doesnt want him on the Kings Guard after that display and he gets to be Lord of The rock
Nights watch: "Take no wives, father no sons. Kings guard: cannot inherit their fathers titles. Thats how the Mad King f'd over Tywin. Tyrion is legally the heir to Casterly Rock.
If Jaime wouldn't have killed his boss, the MK would have demanded a trial by combat and nominated Jaime as his combatant, which would have put the Lannisters in a bad position. And I believe, Robert would have taken on Jaime himself.
I think, it's pretty obvious, that Jaime was Aerys' sworn butt and accidentally killed his dom, when they played on the Iron Throne. It's so typical he rather claims to be a bad Kingslayer than admitting the tragic history of his gay affection. But then again, if all closet-homosexuals would finally come out without fear of their (also secretly gay) dads, we wouldn't have any wars anymore. Do we?!
Jaime is an interesting character. He's very easy to write off as being a wretched scumbag early in the series, but as time goes on, you can see that there is something noble and honorable about him. There is a good man in there, a true knight in that very romantic sense. Yeah, he does the deed with his sister, which many people think is immoral, but he also has a kind of code. A sense of chivalry. He might do some immoral things to protect himself, his family, and his lover, but he has a hero inside him. (I don't. I don't care. I actually kind of find their love for each other beautiful. Plus, you know, Cirsei is hot, and I think a lot of men would do her if given the chance, even if she were a relative. Not that you can really say no to her, even if you wanted to. She doesn't really accept no. If Cirsei wants your D, she will get your D one way or another. No is like an alien concept to her. To be honest, I love girls that are dangerous and aggressive like that, though not entitled. They have to earn it. Early in the series, I don't think she has earned it, but later on, after she is humiliated by the Faith Militant, she earns it. She no longer just relies on her sons, her brother, or her dead hubby for her power. Now she takes it herself. That sort of thing gives me a stiffy. I actually kinda hoped she won the Game of Thrones towards the end. Let her have the southern kingdoms, let Jon or Sansa have the North, and give Danaerys the places she conquered as her own queendom. The Targaryans can have the east. With Danny leading the East, things like slavery get wiped out and a better civilization is born. Danny could have been the founding matriarch of a new great society in the east. That would have been a good ending, in my opinion. Without the infighting caused by Danaerys coming over, the Night King would have still lost. He wouldn't have been able to get past the wall. His forces could be widdled down over time with ranged weapons, like dragon-glass tipped arrows or even things like wildfire. He only became a threat because of her coming over.)
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure both oats are the same no worries no children no land in and the difference between the two is nobody's going to know he's doing it with his sister and everybody is going to know he killed the king
Man I can’t I’m listening to this at the gym and I’m just laughing at all the stupid scenarios you guys come up with about Jamie’s tomfoolery with Aerys
'why would it matter that a BODYGUARD had SEX with the underage PRINCESS he wasworn to protect? At first i thought you guys just didn't understand the story, but i hope you see the problems
Let us know what you think and we will tell you why you are wrong...
I would think that having the title Kingslayer would immediately disqualify you from being in the King's personal Guard, at a bare minimum, lol
the nights watch cant have sex but its mentioned that they always sneak out to the closest town to have sex anyway in one of jons chapters and it's probably the same for the kingsguard were they just always break it in brothels probably
I'm still waiting to hear how I'm wrong.
By their honor system the fact Jamie didn't kill himself after killing the King was proof to Ned, Jamie had no honor.
I was like, isn't it obvious why that's a bad name. Killed his own king, from behind lmao @@drunknpoet
"listen... accidents happen, okay?" Jaime after horse-playing with the mad lad king
“Well next time we will be more careful”
Jaime is such a good kingslayer he tried to kill the autistic king 8 seasons ago
Jaime was doing it for the good the Realm
@@OurHiltsHurt jon just doesn't want it
@@OurHiltsHurtJaime has been the true hero of the story all along, up there with the likes of great men like Craster
"he told me to do it, I was just following orders"
The “just following orders” cop out always works
Jaime should have just used the Shaggy-defence... "It wasn' me."
I mean it’s worth a shot. It’s better what he did lol
To be fair, the Shaggy-defence wasn't invented in Westeros, yet. That happened many years later, when the Son of Dolf had his breakthrough battle.
If i recall correctly, he didn't bother to lie because when Ned walked in, he saw the judgement in Ned Stark's eyes. Considering how close Ned and Robert were, it wouldn't have mattered. So he just cut his losses.
Also, the current Jamie is a very disillusioned Jamie. The Knightsguard Jamie was still just starting to see the cruelty of the world, but could still blame only Aerys. Under Robert, he saw it wasn't just a Mad King, but a fucked up system
Also, exactly what was Ned planning to do with the Mad King when he reached him at the end of the rebellion? Depose him and send him to the wall?
@@fordhouse8b Ned was also planning on killing the mad king. It was killing the king that was the issue. It was specifically the fact that Jamie killed the king as a Member of the Kingsguard, and then sat on the throne
@@cameroncrouch5843 I tend ti be a results oriented type of person. If the end is the same, I don’t much care how we get there. Ned sat on the throne when Robert was out hunting, so I don't see how that is relevant. Nothing I have seen indicates that Jamie was in any way attempting to usurp the throne for himself by sitting on that lump of metal, so I do not see how him sitting on it momentarily is relevant ion any way at all. Also, killing king who was certifiably crazy in order to replace him with someone, anyone, who is not nuts is admirable. Planning on doing so in order replace him yourself, as Robert presumably planned to do (as evidenced by the fact that he DID take the throne once Aerys was dead), is self-serving. Robert, Ned, their foster father Lord Arryn could have easily decided to depose the Mad King, and deny the throne to his next-in-line Rhaegar (because of the whole ‘abduction’ thing), and still loyally fulfilled their oaths to the Targaryen dynasty. They could have recognized young Misery’s as King. At that point Viserys was a very young boy, and was completely innocent of any crime committed by his father, or any crime (allegedly) committed by his older brother. Their crimes, both real and assumed, had absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of the dynasty as a whole. Robert was presumably a suitable candidate for the very reason that the Baratheons had extensive family ties to the Targeryans. But you know who else had family ties to them? Viserys, that's who. I fail to see how hounding him and his sister out of the country, and then marrying the daughter of the man who had two other young Targaryen kids murdered, is any less dishonorable and despicable than what Jamie did. Yet Ned didn’t seem to despise Robert. Certainly not enough that he wasntt perfectly willing to back him up in another war, against the Greyjoys this time. Jamie is right, Ned is a hypocrite.
@@fordhouse8b right, but that is Ned's flaw. He is so bound to honor, he doesn't care about the morality. That's why he still respects Barrison Selmy, even though he protected the Mad King.
To Ned, it goes Honor, then Morals. That is the basis of his entire character arc in AGOT. Jamie was 100% in the right. Especially given his life.
Jamie worked so hard to be a great night, like Sir Arthur Dayne. But his appointment to the Kingsguard wasn't about his skill, it was done to troll Tywin. So when he finally does something for himself, finally does something that alligns with how he views knights, he is ridiculed and judged for it.
Jamie and the Hound are two sides of the same coin there. Jamie saw what a knight really was, and became that. The Hound saw what knights were, and refused it.
@@cameroncrouch5843 Honor should have required Ned to remain loyal to House Targaryen. Honor might have compelled him to rebel against the specific members of the dynasty who had wronged his family, but I fail to see how his honor demanded that Robert must be the next king instead of Viserys. If you have some thought on that very specific point, I would be interested to hear them. And I don’t mean that in a sarcastic way.
They've often referred to Night's Watch breaking their vows all the time in Mole'e Town. Jeor said if they killed everyone that broke their vows in Mole'e Town, there wouldn't be a Night's Watch left lol
Also that's one of the reasons they call Jon Snow an Oath Breaker, because he laid with Ygrette. "You broke you vows with a wildling whore!" Or something like that
Yeah that’s right. I don’t remember any conversation like this though for the Kingsgaurd. Right?
It's not just that he laid with a woman it's that he laid with a wildling woman that is openly killing his brothers of the watch and that the possibility that he will father a child that was half wildling half bastard. And seeing as two offspring a wildling woman and Night's Watchmen were Mance Ryder and Craster it looks really bad to dabble in that.
@@OurHiltsHurt Barriston the Bold told Quentin that Lewin Martel had a concubine and seemed to have no problems with it. That's all I can think of at the moment
"You broke your vows with a wildling whore!"
Same. Same.
@@Argos-xb8ek I would think that the rule is no major personal property like titles and lands and absolutely no women or sexual contact with anyone besides yourself. It would makes sense if the general vows for the KG and the NW match because one is based on the other and no sex in general because personal feelings and babies.
Jamie's kingslaying is a commentary on the difference in perspective from feudal society to our modern one. From the modern perspective, Jamie was justified in killing someone who was insanely cruel and unfit to rule. But in the bigger picture of Westeros, Jamie broke his oath as a kingsguard, and went against the iron rules of feudalism and patriarchy that justified Targaryen power, so he's hated.
There's also a psychological aspect, Jamie was preserving some of House Lannister's (aka Tywin's) glory and choosing his house/family over his vows. characters that hate house Lannister loudly condemn Jamie, and pro-Lannister characters treat him with respect. It's a wrinkle of grey in the text when you know Jamie's full story and see the "good guys" like GreatJon Umber and Bryndyn Rivers condemning him.
With Jamie, GRRM is asking: how someone can be morally justified in their personal actions and still be condemned by society as a whole?
Also he's only 17 when he committed the act. Unlike Tyrion, Jamie acts on emotion and impulse, rather than calculating his rise to power. There are many motivations to the killing, but the "final straw" that Jamie tells to Brienne is that Aerys was full of cruelty and ordering "burn them all". So it ultimately came from a heroic gut reaction to a traumatic situation
Still, there is no reason for him to not tell the truth. Even by feudal standards, it would have improved his reputation. No one judged the participants of the rebellion and people know that one also owes loyalty to one's family, and that the order to bring him Tywin's head is impossible.
Jaime shouldn't have cared for the opinion of a Stark, or even climbed the Iron Throne, at least the version of Jaime we got.
After Jaime killed the Mad King, he walked up and sat on the Iron Throne. The Throne canonically is massive, not a small and uncomfortable-looking chair like in the show. The ascent towards the Throne itself is dangerous, it’s not something you can do easily. To go up the steps of the Iron Throne takes intent. Ned being the first one to see Jaime was also pretty damning for him. He had no recourse with Eddard Stark being a witness to the results of his actions.
HE COULD ALSO KILL HIM
Jaime climbing the thrones makes no sense, jsut like him caring about Ned Stark, after revealing that the Starks are nothing to him. It made sense for the original Jaime, who was supposed to seize power, but Martin changing his character created massive plot holes.
I don’t think Jaime would have ever planned to have killed the king. I think he was smart enough to know Rheagarh was planning on taking over, or that there was some conspiracy to replace the mad king and he was just going to wait out his time for the changeover. I don’t think anyone in kings landing thought Rheagarh would die and only when push really came to shove Jaime did what he had to do. His whole trauma dump on Brieanne in the bath really cemented to me that it wasn’t a thought out choice to kill Aryse, it was a fight or flight option. Either he dies, or I die along with everyone. And saying he did it for all the innocents helps him cope with the “selfish” decision of choosing his own life over that of all his oaths.
And if I was Jaime I would have slit the kings throat after the fact, then pushed him back onto the blades of the throne. Put Jaime’s sword fallen near his hand so it looks like the king knew they were about to loose and rather than surrender to the enemy he killed himself to be spared and torture the rebels would do to him in a last fit of madness. And obviously pushing him on the throne would cover up the stab to the back with more stabs in the back.
Honestly he could’ve just sheathed his sword and run into a different room than come out like “oh no he sent me to get him a latte and now he’s dead, oh no”
He didn’t lie because he actually cares about his honor and lying about something like that would probably not have been honorable in his eyes.
Pre'd through entire video. Great work as usual
Love to hear when a brother Pre’s
Ned is actually just the upset and concerned disciplinarian dad for the preteen Jaime after accidentally breaking the mad kings spine whilst wrestling.
I want the cast to get together to redo parts of the series, Drunk History style. With TH-camrs retelling -or giving alternate versions of- events.
Oh yeah that would be great. It doesn’t even need to be the original cast but just have a good production budget.
If the books get completed and published by some miracle, I'd love to see an animated retelling closer to the books with at least some returning cast (or recast them into different roles with new people as the main cast for fun).
@@Tyler_W Yara and asha greyjoy are both there and are interchangeable or she's just crazy and has multiple personalities disorder
I actually never got why he wasnt just more honest like sure Ned made his mind up but he could turn around to Bobby B and told him
You guys should do a what if video about what would have happened if the roles were reversed and Barristan Selmy was in the throne room and Jaime was at the Trident.
That’s a great idea. If we do this video we will be sure to credit you.
The nights watch says "we'll take no wives, father no children". Having no kids is basically saying they can't have sex cause like you guys said, "Westeros has no pull-out game" lol.
It’s the worst in all of fiction I think lol
It's like these people never heard of contraceptives.
11:30 got to be the most real 'What' I've ever heard 😂
I think the way Eddard Stark meant the "you only served him when it was safe" and that comment about Jaime watching his realtives burn and doing nothing .. I think he meant it as "you only stood up against the king, when it was sure he was going to fall, when it was safe for you" cause they were already storming the Kings landing so the Mad king was like "alright imma taking all of you with me" and thats when Jaime stepped in and thats why Eddard judges him so much, cause through the conversations with Jaime he can tell that, Jaime didnt agree or was opossed to the kings actions, knew they were wrong, yet acted against it only when like virctory was assured with his own life intact or something ... idk .. yeah ... word..
15:00 "I love you" is the best lie to tell in order to get off, in my experience
So who should Jaime tell that he loves?
@@OurHiltsHurt he tells his sister that constantly.
But honestly, he could have just said that "the throne is made out of swords, what did you all think would happen?"
Yeah he should have done a Chinese fire drill with him and put him in the throne with one of those blades sticking out
perhaps the next Iron Throne can be made out of running woodchippers or chainsaws....
@@OurHiltsHurt Jokes aside, I can't really think of any other feasible thing to say for a sword wound in the back. "He sits on them all the time. Those things are meant to do that, not to be sat upon. Maybe when you make a chair for important people, you should use, I don't know, wood and padding?"
guys pretty sure he kills the pyromancer first, then he goes for the king but the king tried to run so in the back the sword goes.
also pretty sure Neds the first one to find him not some Lannister correct me if im wrong.
Ned finds him on the throne but the sack of Kingslanding happened before that
yh i would say the Sack is happening still, but Neds the first one in the throne room and Jamie thinks it doesn't matter what he says cos of Neds honour so he doesn't bother saying anything.
you could say Jamie could have just left after he killed the king but no one will believe that it wasn't him. When Ned comes in and goes ok dead king and pyro they have been stabbed the only kings guard in the city is missing Neds gunna think yeah it was probably Jamie. So I don't see anyway of him killing the king and getting anyway with it.
Jamie just took it on the chin, when really he should have told Ned what happened, I think Ned would understand that it needed to be done. @@OurHiltsHurt
Great videos, I like the flow of the conversation. This channel should have more subs.
Thank you. Glad you found the channel and enjoyed the video.
Very surprised to see this channel only has 700 subscribers
I thought the same thing, wth
Thanks. Hopefully we will be growing soon.
omg finally a GoTs video with stuff I actually watched.
This channel was made for you.
I'll buck up and say I love Lyanna Stark. I love her like I love Ashara Dayne and Jenny of Oldstones, as IDEAS and FADED MEMORIES of loved women. Women not known deeply enough to know how she was thinking. No Lyanna didn't make a smart choice when she ran away with Rhaegar but she wasn't raised to make good plans for war. I see this massive, ignorant screw-up in the same light as I do Sansa snitching to Cersei. Made in fear, probably under short timelines, and with incomplete knowledge. Makes me sad to hear that you hate her but I also get sad to hear people hate Sansa for the mentioned above. I just don't see it as worthy of hate, but of pity.
We still like Ashara Dayne and other but Lyanna’s attitude towards Robert was what makes us up-setty spaghetti. We will make a video one it to make our points more clear and would love to hear your feedback.
@@OurHiltsHurt subbed and notified
The Kingslayer Store called...
Jaime is there all time best seller
I think Jaime doesn't lie because he feels bad about breaking the oath he took not just to the king but to his fellow brothers of the kings guard who are like the only people he ever looked up to admired and respected.
He doesn't see him banging Cersei as a bad thing because in his mind they are in love and so he doesn't think he deserves to be punished for that but he would think that he deserves to be punished for betraying the wishes of his brothers in arms who trusted him to keep the king safe even if he thinks the king deserves to die.
also I'm pretty sure Jaime stabbed him in the back because Aerys was trying to run away so his back just happened to be turned to him when he reached the king.
"He was gonna kill himself and I couldn't let that happen"
lol. That’s a great response
First Lyanna started a war and so did her brother Ned 🤦♀️
Starks can't stop taking Ls
yiu guys are the best please keep uploading
Only because you asked
"His back just did that by itself"
Everyone would have bought that
@@OurHiltsHurt Imagine if he knew about Shadow Babies back then!
Jaime stabbed the Mad King in the back because it was likely on impulse rather than a well thought out plan. Hearing Tywin's forces were routing and sieging the city rather than rallying to defend the King (since Tywin switched sides) he was going to burn King's Landing. He likely gave the order to burn the city or instructed his pyromancers to do it, along with everyone in the Keep and his Father/Father's army. Jaime likely killed him then and there in response to his order.
I mean, who is going to argue with one of those dangerous swordsman who just killed the King sword in hand?
Jaime hand TONS of opportunity to do so earlier because he was basically being held 'hostage' to guard the King and keep Tywin in check. He never did it until that moment. It would have had to be something big for Jaime to take a 'dishonorable' kill, as in the book and show he is all about his honor as his hero Sir Arthur Dayne was the greatest swordsman and most honorable. Makes sense to me.
The fact it was Ned Stark who was the first through the doors is kind of odd but then why didn't honorable Ned Stark stop the raping/killing of all the Royal Children and Queen? Maybe that happened before?
Thought Ned was the first person that saw Jamie
You guys are the Matt and shane of GoT posting
The best swordsman is Daemon Blackfyre. The one true heir to the Iron Throne.
He has to be top 10 but idk the best
i think another reason that jamie killed the king is that by oath he should have killed anyone who would wanna kill the king. and he knew he didn't have a chance of not dying defending him. and if he would have just surrender himself to ned stark, he still would have been called the oathbreaker or coward.
I like Lyanna lmao! I love your channel tho it’s great coverage of GOT.
You’re not going to like our next video lol
I think the kings guards and nights watch vows are the same. Visenya based KG vows on the NW vows.
I don't think they make the distinction between just fucking and starting a family, like it's one in the same. Didn't Sam bring it up at some point when talking to John about gilly...
“4 inch warriors like the rest of us…” 😂😂😂 YT guys in our reality have the worst struggle of them all to live with 🤣
Pray for us 😞
😂😂 playing around and fell on his sword! Lol 😆
The Little Nicky impression made this video top tier
"Theyre preing constantly" subscribed.
Jaime: When they looked them [Robert and Ned] they saw who they wanted to he. When they look at me, they see who they really are.
I don't really see any reason for him to lie. His attitude was "IDGAF anymore." Aerys was about to blow up King's Landing and everyone in it unless he did something, and he had already stood by and watched him burn countless people alive already. Jaime was also coming to understand the conflict of interest in all of his various vows of loyalty. He could either honor his vow to his family or his vow to the king, and either choice could be construed as loyalty to his oath to the realm as a whole considering that he had no illusions about what the Mad King was, so he chose what he believed to be the the lesser of two evils by breaking one vow to honor the others, siding with his family and sparing the innocent of King's Landing. Could he have tried to spare himself some level of dishonor? Sure, but he didn't out of spite for Ned's judgmentalism and out of personal pride, believing that he did the best he could under the effed up circumstances and that nobody else would have done any better. People can say whatever they want about him because he has absolutely nothing to prove.
I like the idea of Lyanna and put a lot of stock in in Baelish playing a part in the miscommunications that led to the revolt.
th-cam.com/video/IoMoxg6iN-w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ShD9bwRp6flAjyej
Theory reference
Going to check this out
What if Podrick had a micro and the only reason that the ladies like it was that it didn't hurt the same way as it usually did
Honestly neds biggest fault is saying to jaime "is that what you tell yourself at night?"
But that's in character for him.
I think the reason the mad King goes completely over the edge is because he heard that Reagar has been killed. In the movie anyway they say that but unsure about the books.
"They weren't just long, they were THICK."
6:06 - he treated Tywin badly waaahhh. I can think of a few people he treated a little worse than ol' constipated bones, Tyland: you cannot CANNOT misunderstand BURNING A HIGH LORD ALIVE IN YOUR COURT WHILE HIS SON STRANGLES HIMSELF. He burned many people. I wish i could see what he did to Duskendale rebellion lady. The lord's mistress who helped orchestrate it i think i can't remember 'em all.
But burning people alive INSIDE the throne room. The SMELL alone is a war crime. Even if it were smallfolk. (It's well documented that violence visited upong the smallfolk can be a crime but not a war crime. )
could you please when making a video about lyanna mention how stupid Brandon is and how terrible his friends are
Yeah we are making the video soon. But we are going to make a poll to see if it’s next or not
Just chiming in I think the reason he didn't lie is because it would have made the situation significantly worse for him. As soon as they saw him they had already made up their minds as to what he did. If he would have lied he'd probably be cut down where he stood and instead of being labeled as dishonorable he be labled a coward. Then everyone would make Jamie was a cowardly lion who can't even be man enough to accept his responsibility. Idk i genuinely don't think anything other than Yes I did it would have been better. Even if he told the truth its a King's guard vs. The death of a king. And the king cant get up and say yeah i was just crazy gonna blow people up. I wish he just immobilized the Pyromancer and then got the king but i think it was probably not a safe way of capturing him honestly so he did what was easier.
I muted AJ's furry stream to watch this.
lol. Same. This stream ranks up there with one of the most… wild.
"He means well"
King's guard oath is in HOTD when ser Erryk swears to ward the queen give his blood for hers, take no wife hold no lands father no children. Guard her secrets, ride at her side and defend her/ his name and Honor. Something like that
Why not just wait a bit, and then have told Barristan about the wildfire plan?
And not kill the king?
@@OurHiltsHurt I still kill him, but then wait a few, months, if he does not trust tywin to help him, heck Even tell Stark, show him/both one of the caches.
Jamie didn't lie because he thinks he did the right and has nothing to hide.
Jaime couldn’t lie because his dad flew their banners and was trying to turn coat so they weren’t killed. So as soon as Ned saw him he knew Jaime did it and his father had taken over the city.
18:10
The kings guard oath is modeled after the nights watch oath
Jaime didnt kill the king, he killed the Physically and Mentally-Tortured Pyromaniacal Lordslayer (reference to his imprisonment + Wildfire + Brandon Stark). Not fit for kingship.
Fact check true
If he did gank every pyromancer like that, he would be protecting the king from himself
“He was killed… killed by the shadow of Stannis Baratheon.” Jamie would have walked free.
lol. What a great excuse. “Shadow (insert person you don’t like)”
No Jamie is the third best, prime Barristan and Arthur dayne beat him
Who’s 4th?
@@OurHiltsHurtI'm more interested in 5th if not 6th tbh
@@OurHiltsHurtmy guess, fourth is Brienne, 5th is Sandor, and 6th is Gregor
Best lie is that the king told him to kill him. He commanded me Mi’Lord.
he fell - Jaime best Ralph Ciffreto
lol. Based sopranos reference.
@@OurHiltsHurtkeeping with the Sopranos excuses... Jaime could just tell Ned that a couple of black guys did it and then ran away.
@@MDMDMDMDMDMDMDMDMD “I found him like this.”
- Tony Soprano
Died on a vine
@@M.L.official he petered out
14:58 don't tell me how to love you
Sorry sir
In the book Sir Barristan Selmy thought he should have did it
Jaime couldve easily just stood guard as Ned came thru and wink to Ned to give him the sign. Purposefully get disarmed and fake getting knocked out. Sure he gets a wimpy nickname but then he gets to beat up people that are obviously worse than him. Even better if Robert doesnt want him on the Kings Guard after that display and he gets to be Lord of The rock
He should have impaled Aerys on the throne and cleaned his sword on Aerys' cloak. Said he did it himself thinking all was lost
Nights watch: "Take no wives, father no sons. Kings guard: cannot inherit their fathers titles.
Thats how the Mad King f'd over Tywin. Tyrion is legally the heir to Casterly Rock.
The load-dropping little lord
Pie o my>Aerys II in terms of cinematography
The painting of Pie O My is one of the best in TV history
Starks need to stop crying about people killing bad kings
If Jaime wouldn't have killed his boss, the MK would have demanded a trial by combat and nominated Jaime as his combatant, which would have put the Lannisters in a bad position. And I believe, Robert would have taken on Jaime himself.
Be the man who killed the psychopath king or be the guy who let that king die due to your incompetence?
Jaime was very young. He was just reacting
jaime should hve also got elia martell and her children out of kingslanding as well
Dorne should have sent support as soon as possible to defend her too
Jamie was honest because he gave zero fucks. He didnt care what happen aftercthe kill also Jamie would die trying to fight an army by himself
Wildfire was a lie, Aerys was just doing a bit that went too far. After all, he is the father of Viserys III, king of the one man show
I think, it's pretty obvious, that Jaime was Aerys' sworn butt and accidentally killed his dom, when they played on the Iron Throne.
It's so typical he rather claims to be a bad Kingslayer than admitting the tragic history of his gay affection.
But then again, if all closet-homosexuals would finally come out without fear of their (also secretly gay) dads, we wouldn't have any wars anymore. Do we?!
Jamie lies for cersi he doesnt usually lie for his own sake
Our boy just knows how to take Ls
Lore of Jaime Didn't Have To Be The Kingslayer | Game of Thrones momentum 100
It wasn't me.
Jaime is an interesting character. He's very easy to write off as being a wretched scumbag early in the series, but as time goes on, you can see that there is something noble and honorable about him. There is a good man in there, a true knight in that very romantic sense. Yeah, he does the deed with his sister, which many people think is immoral, but he also has a kind of code. A sense of chivalry. He might do some immoral things to protect himself, his family, and his lover, but he has a hero inside him.
(I don't. I don't care. I actually kind of find their love for each other beautiful. Plus, you know, Cirsei is hot, and I think a lot of men would do her if given the chance, even if she were a relative. Not that you can really say no to her, even if you wanted to. She doesn't really accept no. If Cirsei wants your D, she will get your D one way or another. No is like an alien concept to her. To be honest, I love girls that are dangerous and aggressive like that, though not entitled. They have to earn it. Early in the series, I don't think she has earned it, but later on, after she is humiliated by the Faith Militant, she earns it. She no longer just relies on her sons, her brother, or her dead hubby for her power. Now she takes it herself. That sort of thing gives me a stiffy. I actually kinda hoped she won the Game of Thrones towards the end. Let her have the southern kingdoms, let Jon or Sansa have the North, and give Danaerys the places she conquered as her own queendom. The Targaryans can have the east. With Danny leading the East, things like slavery get wiped out and a better civilization is born. Danny could have been the founding matriarch of a new great society in the east. That would have been a good ending, in my opinion. Without the infighting caused by Danaerys coming over, the Night King would have still lost. He wouldn't have been able to get past the wall. His forces could be widdled down over time with ranged weapons, like dragon-glass tipped arrows or even things like wildfire. He only became a threat because of her coming over.)
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure both oats are the same no worries no children no land in and the difference between the two is nobody's going to know he's doing it with his sister and everybody is going to know he killed the king
Man I can’t I’m listening to this at the gym and I’m just laughing at all the stupid scenarios you guys come up with about Jamie’s tomfoolery with Aerys
Interesting what if- what if Tywin used his 300 iq and got Jamie out of his king guard vows whilst also being resolved of any crimes.
Get in the flask😂😂😂😂😂😂
The war was not about Lyanna ..
'why would it matter that a BODYGUARD had SEX with the underage PRINCESS he wasworn to protect? At first i thought you guys just didn't understand the story, but i hope you see the problems
Daemon would own Jaime.
Daemon beats everyone. We all know this. We don’t even need to say this.
@@OurHiltsHurtHe would kill R'hllor with one fell swoop.
The only person that could have beat Daemon is Arthur Dayne.
@@markjrbessett6429 Based
Jamie's or was telling the truth