I was wrong about this saw, it is not $1500 it is about 1,100...Here it is amzn.to/38ckzki apparently the motors burn up on these things all the time. You can read the reviews. But there is a newer model that is 1500.00. But it still has the same handle and I'm still not interested. Anyways for those of you asking, the DeWaukee shirts will be available to order early next week!
Great review, completely agree. In my opinion the best all around scms is the dw718 for many reasons. You can pick them up used for 2-300$ and most of the parts are still available.
@@danbailey96 Using a Festool and Dewalt saw is like using a Lie-Nielson chisel and a Buck Bros chisel. Both will get the job done, but it's all in the craftsmanship and feel. You will have more confidence while using something refined. I have also heard of people using their Festool once, and then it sits in a corner, collecting dust. I have an older Hitachi compound sliding miter saw and I will use that over any other saw, just because it feels better in my hand, and I have much more control with it.
I have a kapex and I Love it, I've cut right inside a customer's house when it was pouring rain outside, no airborne dust at all when connected to the vacuum system
I've used DeWalt, Makita, Hitachi, and Festool miter boxes. The Kapex in my favorite, followed by the DeWalt. The handle on the Kapex is awkward at first, but I got used to it pretty quick. It wouldn't keep me from buying the saw. I like the large bevel scale too. Very easy to dial in on fractions of a degree. I also like the soft start motor.
@@rjwhite907 Actually no. I've used 2 Kapex saws but haven't bought one. Most saws I use are owned by the company that I work for and I don't do enough carpentry at home to justify the cost. If I was in business for myself, it would buy the saw I like most.
FYI: the trigger in the handgrip is enough to pull the saw down. To engage the motor you have to use both triggers. I must admit that it is not immediately clear when using it without reading the manual.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about the trigger. When reviewing tools, it should be done after extensively using the tool. Not a quick first impression. Also, one of the best things about this saw is the clamp system.
I made the switch from Dewalt to festool. The first 2 weeks it was uncomfortable, the same 3 issues as you, now those are the 3 things I love the most about the saw. The laser is so awesome, double line that gives you the outside of the blade, almost like a shadow indicator in reverse. The handle has made my elbow hurt less and the trigger system has been an eye opener to how unsafe I've been over the years.
I've used all the saws out there and in my opinion the Festool is the fastest for a finish carpenter hands down! Two important things 1) Keep the blade clean. 2) Use a sharp blade.
Thanks for the review. My one comment: I like the implementation of the ball slides. I own a Bosch Glide saw. The one feature that sold me was that nothing projects out the back of the saw. I have limited space in my garage, and I can leave the saw setup against the wall.
If I had to replace my DeWalt, I would definitely look at Bosch or Delta. I really like the articulated arms and they are butter smooth. Some sliders don't move near as smooth.
Mark, as you said, that slider implementation is simple and ingenious. Why did nobody come out with that before? The Bosch system seems nice as well, but looks bulky and complex. What say you?
@@brois841 I would not use the Bosch saw as a portable, because of its weight. I don't see where it is more bulky or complex. I've worked on a lot of other (non-woodworking) machinery incorporating recirculating ball-slides. The glide mechanism is more reliable.
Personaly, i’m used to this saw and i like the grip more than any other saw. With the Laser you don’t have too check the blade against your line any more. Saves a lot of time
Not true... if you are doing precision woodworking, that laser does not account for the thickness of the blade. 1/64th of an inch makes all the difference between having a slight gap in the corners of a picture frame... or just a hair line seam.
@@flosscap I've done woodworking for over 25 years, since I was 15, using the same DW780... & I get hairline joints all the time with it. When compared to Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, & Festool... they ALL have the same level of accuracy. Lasers are a gimmick. I've used the Festool at a tool show, & while the laser lines up with the mark... there is a very slight gap, between the mark & the cut. When you check the cut using the blade... you can get it right on the mark every time. The only thing lasers, on miter saws, are good for is... making cuts faster, but they are not as precise as checking the cut with the blade. No brand makes an ultra precise laser. Part of the problem is the laser's amplitude disperses by the time it reaches the mark, creating considerable beam waiste at it's edges... which makes lining the laser on the mark imprecise. If you are claiming that there is no beam waste from the Festool's laser... then you are simply a liar.
Oh, and BTW, it is not necessary to push the thumb button and handle trigger at the same time in order to lower the saw head to your workpiece-you only have to pull the trigger. The trigger releases the head lock and its throw is limited by the thumb button-the saw will not start until you push both at the same time.
As a professional interior railing installer and having tried several saws of the years, Dewalt are still the best I have found for the following reasons. The d-handle position is close enough to the guard that you can hold the guard back when lining up a cut when the 1/16ths and 32nds count . Weight for there size they is light . Cutting capacity of the 12 " blade for large square posts . Durablilty , same saw since 2006 and only had to repair armature once and usually brushes that wear out (and I beat the heck out of it daily ) . The only thing that I wish it had was better dust collection.
I agree, but one thing I disliked about the Dewalt was the sliding arms. Mine seemed to get stook and jolt. Wasn't smooth pull or push. I like how I could take the dewalt down and hold the guard up. My next chop saw will be fesstool. I will just have to get use to the handle.
Also, a good way to cut a finger off. I know, you've been doing what you do for years and still have all your fingers. All it takes is one time.@@frenchyroastify
How? My left hand is holding the moulding, and my right hand is holding the saw grip and the guard up. What's more dangerous is when the guard is in the way for a particular cut and people put a wedge in the guard so that it stays up.@@TheBuckyLumberCo
With a lot of guys in construction having carpal tunnel issues, yes cranking your wrist like that sucks and it is the first thing I noticed about it, when I saw it. I love my Ridgid saw.
It isn’t just a Festool grip. Many Makita saws have a similar grip, as do Bosh and Hitachi. The Festool is an ambidextrous setup so cutting with your left hand when your work is on the right is safer and more natural.
I’ve had them all. Dewalt, Makita, Bosch... the Kapex by far walks all over them. Well worth the price tag. Been running one and now the latest iteration for about a decade. Never let me down, never had to replace anything other than the blade. Near set up. Set up anywhere space is an issue and the precision angle stop settings, lazer and bevel have gotten me out of more problem cuts than any other saw. This thing is a godsend. There a reason high end finish professional use them.
With the triggers, you can disengage the safety stop very easily, there is a small plastic pin just inside the blade guard, that stops you from bringing the saw down. Just clip that off, and you will completely bypass that safety feature and be able to use it like any other miter saw. I did it with mine, it takes 3 seconds to do. You can also do this with the top button, that is to disengage the actual switch, go inside the handle and find where it interferes with the switch, and again cut the little bit of plastic that is causing this. Its well worth it. Also its a shame you werent able to try out the laser, it is amazing, it has a line either side of the blade and its ridiculously accurate.
I actually agree with almost everything you said except for the deal breaker... I carried one for almost eight months. I refused to buy the $100 a piece crown stops for a saw that i don't own, but the kicker was the day that i had to cut 4-1/4" base on the flat because to the right, the motor wouldn't clear.
Hahaha, I'm a DeWalt guy too and as soon as I saw that handle I thought the same thing!! Plus you can hold the blade guard up just a bit with your thumb on the DeWalt.
All my Dewalt gear is old gen and epic to use with none of theses issues people raise . Most people want the saw to do all the work all they do is throw the wood at it lol . You need some skill to use a good mitre chop saw . How you hold the wood and how you use your body and how you stand are all very important when it’s all day long . It’s ok but not for me to Noobie and clunky and that trigger nah mate . All this new gen from dewalt is good but just a gimmick to sell to the apprentices today super green horns now . Dewalt DW708 the best saw they ever created and the first gen 18 volt mini double compound mitre saw I have three of the same one . And worth twice now what I paid for then. All the other stuff that’s out is just not needed really with the selection we have today . They have not really improved much other than upped the price and upped the battery power and the designs are going out the window . Could of had this tech 15 years ago but they start slow to make mega cash . I’m not buying into it . This saw is for DIY ‘ers and way way to clunky and pokey for me .
@@Bart-Did-it I have an older DW708 when the slides were up and down instead of side by side, The saw is a champ, could use new blade spindle bearings but otherwise perfect
@@caitlinleanna5028 under over rather than double barrelled . Much more stable why they go back to side by side I have no idea other than slightly more compact. I have the DE708 110 v The 240v is even more powerful
@@caitlinleanna5028 not thrashed mine enough for upgrades or repairs yet had first one stolen . And for some reason even from all my site work bashing my saws have never needed calibrating they still rock solid . And they get smashed good everyday
Actually a hint about the handle design is: The design made by the German engineers is smart and has a purpose: The handle is in line (i.e. same plane) with the disk so that the push force does not create a torsion effect like with other table saws that have the effect of reducing the cutting precision due to the excentric handle design (push force out of the disk force). Also, depending on the height of the workshop the handle may be also ergonomic (easy to use).
The cleanliness of the saw with dust collection is the reason I run one on my jobs. Most of my winter work in New England can be inside a customers house. I have to be as clean as possible wherever I setup.
@@juanoramo Yep. I have them too. And they still won't perform like the Kapex so far as dust collection is concerned. You need to be a commercial user that has to work indoors in the winter to understand how important dust mitigation is inside a customers home.
@@wxfield same here. that's why I got it. working oin new construction "Tall and skinny" homes with 54 stairs... kitchen is usually on the top floor "for the view" and the homeowners dont want contractors using the elevator...
@@michaelglaser1669 Roger that. I hated cleaning up after jobs with my beloved Makita. I had to setup zip walls and make cut rooms out of plastic. Even with those precautions it took 4-6 hours (or longer!) to cleanup. Not with the Kapex. Do the hourly analysis on your cut room setup times and take-down times..you'll probably find that paying for tools that have near perfect dust collection is well worth it..even with all the ergonomic problems Kapex has.
wxfield I don’t have issues with the ergonomics. So many people are used to stand directly in front of the blade, which is really dangerous. One should always be completely to the good-side of the cut (just like positioning on a table saw. So I like it!
I too looked at the Festool and ended up with the Bosch, this is after 17 years using the Dewalt 12" compound miter saw, which I liked but the Bosch is better. In regards to the Festool vs the Bosch is the sliding portion, the Bosch is hands down smoother and to me that was the deal breaker. No matter what other features, positive or negative, you will slide that saw nearly every cut so it better be smooth and the Bosch beats them all.
I have the bosch and the Festool. I worked in a joinery shop. Hands down the bosch is smoother. But the festool is much more accurate which is big in my business, and easier to get accurate. But it only being 10 in it loses out to me. I wouldn't purchase it again if only in 10 in.
All toolmakers have some good tools, and, some that are not great. I never liked Makita beltsanders, i prefer PorterCable, same goes for full sheet pad sanders. But, i love my Makita battery impact driver and drills. I love my Millwaukee Sawsall, but, the rest of the Millwaukee stuff i do not care for, except their drills which are very good. I use tools from every company, and, since i have been working as a professional cabinetmaker, trim carpenter, and, builder, i have had a few, if you looked into my jobsite trailer, you would find every color in the rainbow. I pick the best tool, not limiting myself to one manufacturer. I would not have this saw, if you gave it to me, After DE Walt came out with the handle they have, all the other manufacturers have copied it, i do not see why Festool did not either.
@@keithkuckler2551 I agree. My old Bosch jigsaw has really held up well. It has the long screw driver for tightening the blade. It has cut hundreds is sink holes in laminate countertops. Bosch made great hammer drills too. Porter Cable has the best routers, belt sanders, and the hinge mortise jig was awesome. My worm drive is an old Skil Saw. I have an old Makita 10” portable table saw that has cut miles of trim and boards. And my old 8” Hatichi (only tilts right) slider was my go to for crown and trim. The 14” saw is now the gold standard. Makitia battery drills are the best IMO. And yes, a Milwaukee saws all is hard to beat. I owed a Porter Cable, but Milwaukee is a beast. Thier old drills were the best too. Sorry for my tool rant, I could talk tools fo ev er! Cheers from Chicago
I’ve been using my Festool miter saw for several years, and I love it. I can set it up in customers houses right where I’m working, and save lots of time with hardly no clean up. Any new tool takes some getting use to.
Y'all do know they make an outlet tou can plug your saw and vac into where they come on simultaneously and it only run about $30. And works with any vac
Good review Richard, There’s just too much “tool snobbery” out there. Guys just convince themselves that the more you spend the better the product...and the end result Great channel young man, truly a pleasure to watch and learn from you, best wishes fro U.K.
ass2mouthallday hi yeah I agree, but does it improve skill level? I have well healed DIY friends who have committed whole heartedly to Festool. So now it costs them £1200 to cut to a pencil mark when previously it cost them £600, but they’re happy and the Festool marketing team just love them....just Saying!
Your so correct Mr.Terry...I seen many guys spend a million on tools have everything you can think of, but shameful to say can not construct a dog house properly but they have the latest and greatest, but no true skills to get a job done correctly...lol
I used a Kapex saw for a few weeks and didnt like it at all. The dust collection is good as you said, but thats about all is was great at. On a jobsite its a toy. Its fragile, proprietary blades, the cost... Not worth it IMO. The Dewalt 12" or 10" is the way to go IMO.
I use an old Milwaukee chop saw that I've really hammered on for at least 20+ years. It's so old it was made in Brookfield, WI - and it works just fine AND I can still get parts for it. It doesn't have any safety features other than what exists between your ears...
I've been a trim carpenter and contractor for over 40 years. Most of my career was spent using a Makita LS1011 bought in 1993 and I still use it at times. I bought the Kapex saw in 2015 for about $1400. For me it is well worth the money because minor adjustments are so EASY and most importantly ACCURATE! This saves me a lot of time with less trips back to the saw, and time is money. Obviously if that degree of accuracy is not important to you, the price might not be worth it. The ergonomics is a non-issue; if you are a carpenter you should be able to suck it up and turn your hand a little without it being a problem, then again it's what I've been used to. My "young" helper who has been a carpenter for only about 30 years concurs with my view; he actually dislikes the orientation of the Dewalt and similar saws. But what do we know?
Don Payne I have the 12” dual bevel sliding compound miter saw...on 1x6 base it can’t cut a square outside corner. It always has a bow in it...thoughts?
Charlie Coleman Hey Charlie it’s not cutting out of square but has a bow in the middle of the cut? Have you tried a different blade. Mine is not a slide but I’ve used them quite a bit . They seem to do better if you make multiple passes. Really hard to say but it seems like the blade is flexing to achieve a bow? I doubt this helped much but good luck.
I think that a super fair personal feelings. Ergos are everything not only does it feel weird but it looks weird. I’d like to get you feelings on the Makita 36v slider
n3qdz I have the 10” 36v and it has been a great saw! A bit heavy/bulky for moving around the job site. But I think overall you would not be disappointed. Straight cuts, tons of power that last all day, and no cord. If you are already running makita tools it’s a good buy in my opinion. Best of luck
I use the makita 36v 10" saw professionally. Stain grade and paint grade work. Once dialed in it works amazing. I had a few issues making beveled cuts that were square but that was mostly the way I was pushing down on the saw causing it to flex quite a bit. I've had mine for a year? And put hundreds of hours on it. I'd buy it again in a heart beat
I also have the Makita 36v Mitre Saw and love it, and it’s a brilliant tool platform, bang for your buck,you can’t go wrong. I abandoned my Dewalt platform when they went from Nicad to Lithium, and as for the Festool,it’s just hard to justify the price tag
I bought one of theese because wanted precision and in that regard is perfect. You get used to the handle and the problem with he buttons can be fixed... by reading the manual! Also, Dewalt is more expensive in Europe and Festool cheaper, so the price difference is smaller.
That’s crazy . I think Festool are just the best tools in the world. They are expensive but it’s paid off when I do a expensive job. I just think it pays itself and the rest of the story is good profits .
Festool seems to have a cult following which focuses on the wonders of their dust collection. That is a great feature, but I don't find it to be compelling enough to convince me to spend the extra money. To each his own, but I'm going to keep my Dewalt saws & drills and use Porter-Cable and Bosch routers.
I agree on the wrist mechanics...repetitive stress injury will result with long term use. That engineered grip is bad, very bad just by looking at it one can see the potentially harmful effect it will have with hours of use every day
I have a bosch and the handle can be moved to the position that you want, I have it like the kapex and don't like the horizontal like dewalt. I've been using it like that for over 15 years and never had any issues.
Finish Carpentry TV The Festool Kapex, has some amazing features, like the ones you shared with us. The not so amazing features you also pointed out. The deal breaker for me was the motor going out. If that happens under warranty, there’s no worries there. Outside of the warranty, you get to spend $28 for the shipping box to ship it back to Festool. Then the repair bill, like in the $600 range. On a positive note: Festool’s track saw TS 55, is the very best saw I have ever used.
Steven B actually festool repair is really cheap, at least here in sweden. I had a heavy ass front door fall on my ts55 and was like 😖 argh that's gonna cost me a new saw. It wouldn't plunge at all and I think it got all kinds of out of whack. Took it back to the retailer, was without my saw for a week, came back good as new. Bill: $50 bucks. Couldn't have been happier. This was my personal tool. If it would have been on a site they would have brought a replacement saw when they picked it up for service. Not saying all festools are the best, but some are just great. As much as I hate it, you need to pick the cherries and mix brands 😤 I just try to keep it to a minimum
My co-worker has this, I like it because it’s lighter than mine and easier to carry up three flights of stairs. I have the Makita and it’s nots easy to carry, it’s really bulky and and has sharp edges whereas this Festool has a plastic casing and a compact base. Way easier to carry. I work in San Francisco and almost every house is 3 or 4 flights, it’s a feature that matters imo.
Tips. Very important if you would like to saw with precision. (avoid torsion as much as possible)! Always choose a Miter saw with a handle positioned in a vertical line above the saw blade. Everything must be aligned, slide rails, handle, and saw blade,it is much better this way the blade will not tilt. Because there is some torsion in the aluminum housing . And choose an engine with softstart on it to prevent wear of the gear and worm shaft. It is very important that everything is aligned. Here are some examples to show how the handle must be positioned above the blade. Bosch gcm 800 sj / Bosch gcm 8 sjl / Evolution rage 3 / FESTOOL KS 60 / HITACHI C12RSH2 / FESTOOL KS 60 E KAPEX / Metabo KGSV 72 Xact (This also is the case with the Miter saw without the slide rails). If you want you can test it yourself at home if there is torsion in the aluminum housing. Step-1. First you make a saw cut from +-5 mm deep in to a flat piece of wood about +- 20 mm thick. To this with the normal handle positioned on the right side of the Miter saw. Step-2. Then repeat this by pushing the saw blade down with your hand (finger) on the aluminum protective cover were the saw blade is cased in. Just now only do this without the running engine. Step-3. Now you can see if the saw blade will be positioned in or next to the saw cut. If the saw blade is (+- 0,2 / 0,5 mm) next to the saw cut then there is torsion in the aluminum housing. Step-4. therefor it is much better to choose a Miter saw with the handle positioned vertical in line above the saw blade. Conclusion: how further away the handle is from the saw blade how more chance of torsion in the aluminum housing.(don't go for that).
My Dewalt Flexvolt 12 inch for the win. Huge fence, huge blades = huge cuts. I hate the handle on that Festool. It's like you're giving it a handshake every time
Funny for people who use this stuff all the time. First thing I noticed was how that handle was and thought....that would be awkward...then when he finally said it I actually laughed out loud to myself because I understood what he was saying. Great video...very informative and to the point. Subscribed!
He is Wright I have makita and dewalt. And I've used fesstool and the handle is weird. I will be moving over to fesstool though as it looks more professional in some sense.
I think the vertical grip is to keep all the pressure generated by your hand in a downward direction during a cut rather than having a horizontal handle offset to one side which creates a slight rotational pressure. If that makes sense
@webnothing couldn't agree more. Basically I hate everything about this saw. Who would EVER buy a saw because it collects dust well...? I hate uncomfortable awkward tools.
@@SandyridgeGR no other saw have that much precision in cuts. I dont know where are you from but in my country high end carpentry is finished in lacquer not painted wood like in US. Try cutting lacquer in 45 degrees with other than festool saws and you will see why it costs.
I have DeWalt and Festool miter saws. It took about three minutes to get used to the Kapex handle. I use the Kapex for hardwood crown because the cut quality is definitely better. Dust collection is almost non-existent on the DeWalt; I can cut inside with the Kapex with almost no dust. The angle finder gets a lot of use, but you need a working laser...The only problem I have with the Kapex is the smaller size of the table and smaller crown capacity. You have to cut flat on crown over 5-1/2”. The DeWalt cuts it standing with crown stops. We gravitate to the Kapex for furniture quality cuts in hardwood; for production stuff the DeWalt is fine
I previously had DeWalt for years and loved it but now own the kapex. Both great saws, both have good and bad points. What I would say tho is that people obviously prefer certain brands and tend to stick with them throughout their career so often they can become binded towards other tools and brands. For me the kapex 120 is fantastic, over priced yes, but a fantastic saw nether the less.
Is just a matter of getting used to it. I use to think like you. Keep on using it and you will end up loving it. We have 2 of these at our cabinet shop and they are amazing tools. It just seems too soon to do a review.
The dust extraction is a big factor for me I've had mine for 5 year's and I still love it. I had 3 other major band saws and they these were all too heavy and awkward to carry. The kapex is still a big saw but I would not worry about carrying it up stairs. For me the longer you use festool you realise that its well though out . Of course you never going to please everyone but interesting review P.S. did you press the laser bottom on top ?😅
@@jarlnieminen4307 I have one that's about 7 years old now, and on mine you can pull the trigger and disengage the pivot lock without touching the thumb button. The big trigger disengages the pivot lock when pulled in part way, and then starts the motor when pulled in fully. The thumb button is a block that prevents the trigger from being pulled far enough to start the motor. It did take a bit to develop the muscle memory to smoothly work them, but once you get it it's easy. Trigger only to pull the saw down to check a cut, button plus full trigger pull to run the saw.
The moment I saw the saw, my reaction was "that's a horrible, non ergonomic handle grip/angle". Then that weird double safety lock thing - having to push the "on/off" switch _partway_ to bring the blade down seems downright dangerous. I often bring down the saw without it running to get a cut to be precisely where I want it - and often my other hand is nearby moving the piece around pretty close to the blade -- but I move it before powering the saw on. Maybe I'd get used to this setup, but I'd be nervous about that setup for a while.
You dont need to check your cut with this thing. The laser is exactly on point every single time. It's a dual laser that shows thickness of the blade exactly. I have used usual right handed saws and I have used the kapex. It is absolutely horrendous to cut with your left hand with most saws and if you need to hold the piece with your hand, the motor comes in the way most of the times. The way you are holding the kapex is the only good point. If they would make a T-style handle on top it would make it even better.
He's pushing the wrong button. You only have to push the large one with your index finger - NOT the small one that you operate with your thumb. The thumb switch turns on the motor.
Re: the dust collection, it only works with festool vacuum. If you have a different vac, the hose is a different size and it only works with festool vac switch, not others. Also, festool has a proprietary arbor, so you can only use festool blades. Literally the only thing I like about that saw was the half degree marks make it easy to get a precise miter.
Proprietary ... another reason I stopped buying Fessy early on and sold everything except my sander. They make good stuff but you get charged a premium on all the supplies you need. The only reason I keep the sander ( it is a great sander... ES150? ) is I finally found a 3rd party supplier of the sanding discs with the proper hole punch outs.
@@cuebj The two saws I have by Evolution are customer returns. :-) They sell (well did when I bought them) on Ebay at a heavily reduced price. I also bought their oscillating saw brand new which is really very good.
Brad Brinegar they have the best take saws and mitre saws yes. I have grown quite fond of their routers as well and am very impressed. As an old school porter cable user dewalt is nailing those out of the park. Also Their drills seem to be at the level of Mikita. Impressive.
I have a Kapex for almost 8 years , I'm pretty happy with it, it's really a finishing saw , some of the features are really nice . too bad the laser did not work because it's the best I seen of any chop saw so far . IMO . funny the handle never bather me .
When on the job you want a quick and nimble saw. No ruckus or complicated processes. I know festool is a great brand but it's more a high price than anything else and often only festool works with festool. For the same money a Dewalt or makita has a better price to quality ratio and it works universaly, festool is for the established company or already "rich" company.
You can disengage the trigger safety stop very easily, there is a small plastic pin just inside the blade guard, that stops you from bringing the saw down. Just clip that off, and you will completely bypass that safety feature and be able to use it like any other miter saw. I did it with mine, it takes 3 seconds to do. You can also do this with the top button, that is to disengage the actual switch, go inside the handle and find where it interferes with the switch, and again cut the little bit of plastic that is causing this. Its well worth it
I’ve been in the construction business for almost 30 years and have owned my own business for almost 10 now. That being said I don’t like DeWalt tools at all but your honesty in other videos was refreshing. You sir have another sub.
Its not super surprising the things you mentioned that you didn't like. But I think the way you like to work this saw really isn't needed. The two big features that make Kapex attractive is the dust collection and the rail system. You can take that saw right into the room your working on and dont have to worry about dust and you can also stick the saw practically against the wall and get full use of the saw. No more slogging out to the driveway every time you have to make a cut or trim off a smidge for the 100th time. Now, is that worth $1200 bucks? That's why I dont own one when I own many other festool tools. I have been looking to change out my Dewalt 12" slider though. You cant cut an accurate miter on that thing and I dont care what anyone says. There's too much runout and too much blade deflection. I think the smaller blade of the Kapex will do much better.
Great observations. It seems to work very well for a lot of people and they swear by it. If I spent that much on it I would learn to like it too I guess.
I have been in the trades my hole life and every Contractor I know lines their cut line up with the blade, that looks way dangerous having to pull the trigger a little bit to be able to line up the cut line. I 100% agree with you on how weird that handle is as well, I have never use a Festool but just that alone makes me not want to try it either. Lol
He wasn't doing it correctly. You don't have to push the top safety button to lower the saw. You just pull the trigger lightly and it will unlock. Even if you pulled the trigger all the way at that point the saw won't come on unless you are pushing the safety button at the same time. I'd say it's safer than the Dewalt since on those saws you could (not likely but could) accidentally hit the trigger when you're lining up the cut and the saw will come on. There's no way the Kapex will start unless you have your thumb pressing the safety, which you shouldn't be doing when lining up. The laser really limits the need to line up cuts. That said, the handle on the Dewalt is more comfortable.
I always line up my cuts with the DeWalt and the D handle makes it so much better of a motion and you don't have to put your finger on the trigger to bring it down. I set up my saw with a rigid shopvac and a vac/tool switch and a dust hood when working inside. It works for half the price.
Mark Gross you know it has a twin laser line setup right? You just put the red laser line on your mark and cut, no need to do anything else, perfect every time. Even on 45degrees it remains perfect.
@@riverbuilder2251 Lasers never perfectly match blade thickness. I've used the Festool at a tool show, & the laser is only accurate to 1/32nd of an inch. That's good enough for crown molding & general carpentry... but fine wood workers look for hair line seams on their joints, which requires matching the blade to your cut line for ultra precision.
I’m with you on every point made. What I would say is the reason some saws have that handle type other than the ambidextrous situation is to minimize lateral movement while cutting. Usually on sliders. Makes some sense but at this level if I want to bang out cuts without being real easy and thoughtful on my motions I’m using my Single bevel compound. Thanks bud!
I have my Kapex for over 12 years now and never had to replace anything besides the sawblades. I’m surprised by anyone finding the grip position awkward? How about any handsaw? Here in Europe we use upright grips on handsaws too ;).
The reason the handle is positioned on top is not for left/right-hand usage, but so the blade does not deflect sideways when you pull down the handle (and use some force like with solid wood) I had the makita ls1219 for about one week, but sold it and bought the kapex mainly for that reason. When i cut a big piece of oak, the front was square, but the back bottom not. Also it came perfectly calibrated out of the box, could only get the makita cut perfect either at 90 or 45°, not both, and that after half hour of tinkering with a lot of screws. I agree that the safety switch is awkward though.
Some people like myself cant be convinced any other way. Your corect the old model had motor issues which festool fails to admit but somehow they miraculously improved the motor design for the 2019 and up models...i have used a kapex for years and absolutely love it for trim carpentry, i have owned the bosch axial, dewalt, hitachi, makita and kobalt miters saws over the years but wouldn't trade the kapex back for any of them - every day pro use though i have to say the bosch axial glide dominates.
I used festool at the Dallas Makerspace and they are very nice to use. Ryobi is like a Toyota Camry, Dewalt is like a Lexus ES350, and Festool is like a Tesla Model S. If I had festool, I would use the dust collector everytime I use the chop saw or the sander, and if I need to vacuum my car for a DIY car detailing, I would turn the dust collector on to max power and clean out the crumbs, stones, twigs, little wrappers, and leaves with it and use the festool rotex to polish the dashboard and condition the leather/leatherette upholstery and trim. The trigger on the Kapex that feels weird to you, does not feel weird to me. I actually find it as a very nice safety feature to prevent missing digits or serious cuts.
I’m impressed with deWalt. We bought a batteri operated circular saw to cut some 12mm MDF. Charged the batteries for 6 hours before we started. We managed 2 full length cuts per batteri. Super stoked. Fabulous piece of equipment. Without it we wouldn’t even have managed 1 cut.
Honestly can't believe that, The 2" of axial pressure that you can put with your hand in twisting force is literally nothing when you're talking about down force. Blade deflection and runout has 99% to do with how rigid the build is and sharp the blade is.
I've never seen a Festool tool that justifies the price. The do have excellent dust collection, but not at 2x or 3x the cost. I also prefer the throttle-style handle over the one on the Kapex but I've used both in the past, including Dewalts. The 12" Bosch Axial Glide would be the saw I would buy if I needed one.
Absolute agree on the Bosch. Not the greatest to lug around , but to me far superior build quality to the Festool, with against the wall capability if needed, at nearly half the price.
I would never take anything but Festool when going to a customer to do final fitment and install of cabinetry and such. Why? Because if I had a shitty Black and Decker, I'd spend 2 hours cleaning up all the dust. With a more proper machine like a Bosch or a Makita I'd spend an hour cleaning up. Festool dust collection is so incredibly well designed that I spend maybe 10-20 minutes cleaning up after a job. I can't bill the customer for hours spent cleaning up the worksite in their home. That's gotta come out of the margin on my end, so the less time I spend doing clean up I can't bill anyone for, the better. As that means more time for things that I can bill a customer for. It's the same with a Lamello Zeta. Yes it's a 1700 euro biscuit joiner, with a couple of very specific party tricks. But these very specific party tricks save me between a half hour and an hour on the average project. So again, I do not care what the tool costs, it will pay for itself in a matter of weeks to months.
@@fermitupoupon1754 I tend to agree with regards to field work, as noone beats Festool in dust collection, hands down, but for shop work I shy away. When so many cooks have their hands on it, it becomes an expensive soup.
I‘m from Germany, so I could easily be a Festool fanboy. I‘m not. The highest percentage of my tools is DeWalt, then Bosch, a few Makita and Metabo. My only Festool machines are the Kapex and their vacuum. And even the Kapex is mounted on a DeWalt saw stand. When you‘re looking for a miter saw and your highest preferences are in that order precision, space requirement and dust collection, you cannot beat the Kapex. Yes, the handle looked awkward to me as well, but I got used to it very quickly. Being precisely in line with the blade for both right- and left-handed persons alike, it adds to cutting precision by reducing the tendency to twist the saw head by the operator. I don‘t say it‘s the best or the worst handle design out there. It‘s just not that kind of a problem some of you may expect it to be.
Good job, you buy your dewalt tools nearly twice the price than U.S citizens. Just check the home depot online... But you still have Mafell tools which are awesome
They could better the design by making the handle two small stubs with triggers on each side so that it could work as a T-style handle and an I-style handle.
@@perrinekld7451 Actually I've bought several DeWalt tools from the U.S., was cheaper than in Germany even with taxes and shipping costs added. There are also some DeWalt tools which are available in the States, but not over here - and vice versus. Corded bandsaw in Germany? Nope. Ordered the U.S. version and run it using a transformer. On the other hand, the excellent corded D26500 hand planer is not available in the States... Mafell, yes, excellent tools, but even more expensive than Festool. And Festool is cheaper in Germany than in the U.S.
@@chevy60 but for basic cordless tools, einhell made a new 18v line, and it looks awesome for the price. All chinesium of course like barely all dewalt cordless tools (don't be fooled with the fake 'U.S made with global materials lol') it's all chinese. I don't think we really need an expensive non china made drill like Hilti Festool or Panasonic, it's not worth the price. I'd rather spend my money on a festool domino, lamello zeta, or a perfect mt55 tracksaw.
Hi! I've got the milwaukee 10" cordless. Good tool. I've used the dewalt 780s and I've used this festool. They all have their little positives and negatives. The milwaukee is such a good all-rounder but the cordless, with 9Ah battery doesn't have the power they say it does. It's just not as punchy as a corded tool. In thick timber I can stall it out. The one thing I can say the festool is the best at, is their motor control. Probably not such an important thing for finish work, but when you're cutting thick section, treated timber, the festool does not lose RPM. That's a really good feature for me, and something the milwaukee lacks. I haven't heard that they burn motors, maybe in the UK the 240V ones don't do this. But it could be to maintain RPM they pull more current than they can handle. This festool, I agree on the handle, it's a weak point from them, which is a shame, because otherwise it's a well designed and built tool, as most festool products are. Their tracksaws and drill-drivers are very good. I'd also add that festool make some of the most accurate and precision tools you can buy, but they don't enjoy the beat downs from site work. Carpentry work and assembly, where you are able to be careful, is what we use them for, but I wouldn't be buying their hammer drills. Love from London UK.
I agree , One reason I love my DeWalt is the grip position , It's a 12 inch Slider , And being able to lower the blade on to a pencil line with out the blade rotating , Along with the many other features that my saw has that I don't see here on this saw Also I have it Paired with the DeWalt 4 Foot Stand , The Stand Also Has Many Handy Features , Thanks .
DeWaukee: I only use them as well. :) I broke my handle on the 7" M18 Milwaukee mitre saw: it was very cold (-20 DEg C), and I grabbed it, and it just cracked. It may have been weakened before. Have you seen any cracks in yours?
For the vastly superior dust collection, putting price aside, I think I would try it and see if I thought I could get used to the odd grip. Good review.
The early model C8FSE8 made by Hitachi was the best. That same model made today and most Hitachi Miter saws made in China are a piece of crap. I still have the original and it's still going. Smooth as silk.
You know, I have an old blue Ryobi 8 1/4 inch saw, rare now and too old to use safely, and I loved the mobility and 8 inch blade so much better than a 7 1/4. I think a 7 1/4 is just too limited in size for a chopper. .I really want a modern little 8 inch miter saw for carry-ins. The old blue Ryobi is retired of course, but I really did love its size in the old days. Is this saw a good comparison to say a Milwaukee 7 1/4?
In my shop we only use Festool. The reason for the handle being the way it is, is so you can use it with both your right hand and left and not have any differences in feel. That is also why there are two lasers. Time is money and being able to cut from both sides save money.
In case no one has mentioned this, My Kapex does not require you to press the top button and handle button to swing the blade down. Only the grab handle has to be pulled and then the blade is free to pivot down. You only press the top button to allow the handle switch to fully engage and turn on the saw.
I think after a while you just get used of it, I started out 20 plus years ago using Makita chopsaws with a similar orientation handle and at the time wondered how you could possibly use the dewalt handle, then I bought one and still have it and am of the opinion that you will after a while get used of the handle either way
That un-ergonomic handle is the first thing I recognized in this video, considering the innovations and cost of products from this brand I am surprised they have stuck with the old style handles. Another great vid, cheers.
@@darrinmc u are right , once u put pressure on a cut with a side handle like dewalt the saw head twists slightly that's why festool designed theirs in line with blade
I have a DeWalt, I totally understand having to bring the blade down to the cut line without it running. Having to hit that button greatly increases the chance for injuries! I've already lost one finger, so believe me ALL those other features aren't near the cost of losing one finger!!
Actually, you were right about the price. The Kapex model featured in the Amazon link is the older (now replaced) model 561287. After years of user complaints about premature motor burnout, in 2019, Festool finally updated the Kapex with a new motor and a few other useful improvements. The new model is designated as the 575306 and is sold in the USA at $1475. Festool made a small number of older (561287) Kapex models in 2019 but with the new motor, so even if you had the older carcass version (561287) you may -- or may not -- have used one with the upgraded motor. As some of your other commenters observed, the Euro version uses a completely different 240v motor, not the 120v sold in the USA. The 240v Euro version is generally highly regarded as a rock-solid performer. Let's hope the USA version now has a more reliable motor. Even so, I, too, don't like the ergonomics of the handle design. And as to the older 561287 Kapex version, I say "No thanks at ANY Price."
Had my festool saw for the last ten years I mainly work from a joinery shop so it's really good in there its not really a site saw I love it but most of my kit is festool
I agree this os better used as a cabinetry/furniture tool. That's what I use mine for mostly but have definitely put in a lot of hours on it remodeling homes as well. It's a high precision tool and I hear people saying theirs breaks all the time but I've had mine for about five years and never had a problem. Maybe people are being a bit rough on their tools lol
I can get good results with any saw. And I don’t let my muscle memory prevent me from learning something new. That handle is more ergonomic and comfortable once you’re used to it. It’s called a pistol grip, and it’s on most tools, just not American miter boxes. My favorite saw ever is the 10” hitachi made in Japan, same grip.
I DO like how the rail that it slides on doesn’t protrude out the back, I had to make my miter saw table extra deep to accommodate the rails and I have limited space
I’m not gonna contest what “cheap” feels like. But why would they be demonstrating cutting a 4x4 on a tool that is designed for cutting 1x’s? That’s like these channels that use 2” paddle bits on an impact driver just because it fits into the tool. Right tool for the job. Right tool for the job. That’s not the reason I DONT own this tool. It doesn’t cut 5&1/4 base standing up or big crown nestled into the cradle. For a grand, I don’t want any limitations.
100% agree with you on the handle. Unless that Mitre Saw cures cancer, I'm not buying it for the reason of the handle location. I had a $150 Mastercraft Mitre Saw and had the same handle. That tool was made for homeowners...
We did the same buy in one of our shops Weird adjustments, low power and the worst ergonomics on a chop saw. Can,t beat the DeWalt chop saws ! Oh, ya, the motors went out on both, and the dealer/repair is super slow!
very smart and intuitive review you've made about use and features . my point would be that you are an amazing trim carpenter and you have shown us that you dont need to spend festool money to get super-amazing results. I'm sure im not the only one who feels this way. Thanks Sifu
Interesting review. This matches what I've seen and heard: the tools are good, and they do a great job with the dust, but you better not throw them around. But finish carpenters know better than to throw their tools around anyway...
@@juanoramo It good to give your tools a rub down every once in a while to make sure they are in proper working order. That is unless you can hire an employee to rub them down for ya.
For a second there I thought you were going to start drinking the green cool aide. I use both festool and dewalt. I still prefer my dewalt miter saw, dewalt jigsaw and dewalt sanders. Although I will say the festool dust collection on the rotex sander line is unbelievable. I mean zero dust. Where festool really shines that I think you would like especially on jobs like the wainscoting job is the domino jointer. Imagine never having to worry about clamping joints to keep the stiles from walking on you when you screw in the pocket hole. Simply scribe your lines domino on the lines and you have automatic alignment both the distance spacing and never having proud stiles again. Saves a ton of time over drilling with the Kreg pocket hole jig. Maybe you already have the Kreg foreman and that speeds you up but not having to clamp each joint is worth the cost of the tool.
I worked with a "Festool Freak" and had to share his saw as my Dewalt was stolen on the job site. Worked on it for a full week, 12 hour days, on a job, 150 rooms in a high end hotel, tons of detailed trim work. Have to say the dust collection is superb! Major draw back was the handle position and lock mechanisms . They where awkward and doing volume work on it for a full week was fatiguing on the wrist and forearm. It’s a nice saw, however there is nothing that overwhelming on it that would entice me to purchase one at that price point. We cracked jokes about the crook stealing the Dewalt and leaving the Festool.
The only way I could see it maybe working is if you have it on the floor and you are over the tool more while on your knees which I doubt is what they had in mind
The grip being the way it is lets a right-handed or left-handed user operate it just the same. It takes getting used to, and maybe it's not perfect, but the fact that it can be operated by more people is a win. And yes, the motor can go out. Mine did after 8 years of constant usage. Festool replaced the motor and overhauled the entire saw, new blade and all, for free.
Festool have developed a reputation for innovative well thought out designs... looks like they dropped the ball with this one! I used a saw many years ago that had a similar arrangement, but the handle was vertical, not horizontal like that one. It was good to use, sort of like pulling down on a chain, and worked with either hand. The handle like your DeWalt is the most natural to use, unless you want to use it left-handed.
Excellent review. Wanted to go more into Festool, but quit after two purcahases. They are big on this integrated, modular system with all their tools. I stopped after my second product when I recovered from sticker shock and the price of replacement parts, particularly after I had to buy a replacement part. And my sense that those tools are really meant for a shop environment. Unfortunately, I need my tools for a dual purpose, both to be used on the job and in the shop, something that gives me more bang for my buck.
@@TechieTardDo not even know where to begin with tools. I have a love/hate relationship with them and I have had more tools lost or stolen, then I have ever owned. Then the whole corded versus battery debate. I am so sick of extension cords. Any cord I hate it. And I am so tired of the batteries dying on me and having multiple chargers. More chargers equals more crap to keep track of. I can't win. Last, but not least, I hate being the guinea pig with tools, but what are your options?. You buy a tool, use it in the field or in the shop and you find out later there is a feature or something you do not like about it. And I have had them all:Rigid, Porter Cable, Bosch, Hilti, Hitachi, Milwaukee, Makita, Festool,Dewalt, no Ryobi or Fein ever, so which one am I missing? Name it and I probably have had it. Need to retract at least part of my vitriol towards tools. Had the 10 inch Makita sliding compound miter saw. That tool I really liked. Light weight, easy to change your angle setting and cut smooth as butter. Is it mitre or miter? Have seen it spelled both ways.
I love my Festool chop saw, much better all day long then the two Dewalts I have. I use the Dewalts for crap wood, I use the Festool for fine wood working... it is that GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was wrong about this saw, it is not $1500 it is about 1,100...Here it is amzn.to/38ckzki apparently the motors burn up on these things all the time. You can read the reviews. But there is a newer model that is 1500.00. But it still has the same handle and I'm still not interested. Anyways for those of you asking, the DeWaukee shirts will be available to order early next week!
Where can I order a dewaukee shirt?
Gerardo Cruz I will have a link posted early next week. It will be an online store where you can get one and I will make sure to announce it. Thanks!
Finish Carpentry TV
I want DeWaukee shirt. Two actually. XL.
Cheers!
Great review, completely agree. In my opinion the best all around scms is the dw718 for many reasons. You can pick them up used for 2-300$ and most of the parts are still available.
Rich u go out and buy this piece of stool or did the homeowner have it laying around that mansion or something??!!??
4 years later and he's wearing their merch and his shop is covered in lime green everywhere. Gotta love it 🤣
The worst thing about owning a Festool is, having to peek out the window every 30 seconds to make sure no one ran off with it. 😬
You are right, why would you steal a DEWALT????? :-) ;-)
@@stephanschouten8497 why would you buy a Dewalt! Lol jk there saws are ok
E30 M3 I don’t know how good they are the price is ridiculous and not worth the difference between Dewalt
@@danbailey96 Using a Festool and Dewalt saw is like using a Lie-Nielson chisel and a Buck Bros chisel. Both will get the job done, but it's all in the craftsmanship and feel. You will have more confidence while using something refined. I have also heard of people using their Festool once, and then it sits in a corner, collecting dust. I have an older Hitachi compound sliding miter saw and I will use that over any other saw, just because it feels better in my hand, and I have much more control with it.
Just hide it behind your Yeti cooler.
I have a kapex and I Love it, I've cut right inside a customer's house when it was pouring rain outside, no airborne dust at all when connected to the vacuum system
I've used DeWalt, Makita, Hitachi, and Festool miter boxes. The Kapex in my favorite, followed by the DeWalt.
The handle on the Kapex is awkward at first, but I got used to it pretty quick. It wouldn't keep me from buying the saw. I like the large bevel scale too. Very easy to dial in on fractions of a degree. I also like the soft start motor.
Of course you like it, you've already wasted your money on it,lol
@@rjwhite907 Actually no. I've used 2 Kapex saws but haven't bought one. Most saws I use are owned by the company that I work for and I don't do enough carpentry at home to justify the cost. If I was in business for myself, it would buy the saw I like most.
FYI: the trigger in the handgrip is enough to pull the saw down. To engage the motor you have to use both triggers. I must admit that it is not immediately clear when using it without reading the manual.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about the trigger. When reviewing tools, it should be done after extensively using the tool. Not a quick first impression. Also, one of the best things about this saw is the clamp system.
Bought my first mitre saw and now I'm watching videos on saws I'll never own for jobs I'll never do 🤣
At least you bought a saw 🤷🏽♂️
@@WattVet24 true! Except both my first projects have been total failures 🤣
@@raynman6466 practice makes perfect
Metabo? Me too lmao
Same 🤣
I made the switch from Dewalt to festool. The first 2 weeks it was uncomfortable, the same 3 issues as you, now those are the 3 things I love the most about the saw. The laser is so awesome, double line that gives you the outside of the blade, almost like a shadow indicator in reverse. The handle has made my elbow hurt less and the trigger system has been an eye opener to how unsafe I've been over the years.
I've used all the saws out there and in my opinion the Festool is the fastest for a finish carpenter hands down! Two important things 1) Keep the blade clean. 2) Use a sharp blade.
Thanks for the review. My one comment: I like the implementation of the ball slides. I own a Bosch Glide saw. The one feature that sold me was that nothing projects out the back of the saw. I have limited space in my garage, and I can leave the saw setup against the wall.
👍 The Bosch Glide is the one to buy
If I had to replace my DeWalt, I would definitely look at Bosch or Delta. I really like the articulated arms and they are butter smooth. Some sliders don't move near as smooth.
Mark, as you said, that slider implementation is simple and ingenious. Why did nobody come out with that before? The Bosch system seems nice as well, but looks bulky and complex. What say you?
@@brois841 I would not use the Bosch saw as a portable, because of its weight. I don't see where it is more bulky or complex. I've worked on a lot of other (non-woodworking) machinery incorporating recirculating ball-slides. The glide mechanism is more reliable.
@@AnibKram gotcha, thank you! By bulky I meant both size and weight, sounds like it may impact the weight but not the size. Again, thank you.
Personaly, i’m used to this saw and i like the grip more than any other saw. With the
Laser you don’t have too check the blade against your line any more. Saves a lot of time
we use ours for large alloy stair nosing, also being left handed its so much easier to use then any other saw.
Lasers are so imprecise though. Especially with trim carpentry. I very much prefer a shadow line over a laser.
Shadow line of DeWalt is so much better than lasers.
Not true... if you are doing precision woodworking, that laser does not account for the thickness of the blade.
1/64th of an inch makes all the difference between having a slight gap in the corners of a picture frame... or just a hair line seam.
@@flosscap
I've done woodworking for over 25 years, since I was 15, using the same DW780... & I get hairline joints all the time with it.
When compared to Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, & Festool... they ALL have the same level of accuracy.
Lasers are a gimmick. I've used the Festool at a tool show, & while the laser lines up with the mark... there is a very slight gap, between the mark & the cut.
When you check the cut using the blade... you can get it right on the mark every time.
The only thing lasers, on miter saws, are good for is... making cuts faster, but they are not as precise as checking the cut with the blade.
No brand makes an ultra precise laser. Part of the problem is the laser's amplitude disperses by the time it reaches the mark, creating considerable beam waiste at it's edges... which makes lining the laser on the mark imprecise.
If you are claiming that there is no beam waste from the Festool's laser... then you are simply a liar.
Oh, and BTW, it is not necessary to push the thumb button and handle trigger at the same time in order to lower the saw head to your workpiece-you only have to pull the trigger. The trigger releases the head lock and its throw is limited by the thumb button-the saw will not start until you push both at the same time.
As a professional interior railing installer and having tried several saws of the years, Dewalt are still the best I have found for the following reasons. The d-handle position is close enough to the guard that you can hold the guard back when lining up a cut when the 1/16ths and 32nds count . Weight for there size they is light . Cutting capacity of the 12 " blade for large square posts . Durablilty , same saw since 2006 and only had to repair armature once and usually brushes that wear out (and I beat the heck out of it daily ) . The only thing that I wish it had was better dust collection.
I agree with all your points and I'd like to add the light shines on the blade so that the shadow is the cut line. Could use better bearings though.
I agree, but one thing I disliked about the Dewalt was the sliding arms. Mine seemed to get stook and jolt. Wasn't smooth pull or push. I like how I could take the dewalt down and hold the guard up. My next chop saw will be fesstool. I will just have to get use to the handle.
Also, a good way to cut a finger off. I know, you've been doing what you do for years and still have all your fingers. All it takes is one time.@@frenchyroastify
How? My left hand is holding the moulding, and my right hand is holding the saw grip and the guard up. What's more dangerous is when the guard is in the way for a particular cut and people put a wedge in the guard so that it stays up.@@TheBuckyLumberCo
All I'm saying is you shouldn't be holding the guard up period. @@frenchyroastify
With a lot of guys in construction having carpal tunnel issues, yes cranking your wrist like that sucks and it is the first thing I noticed about it, when I saw it.
I love my Ridgid saw.
It isn’t just a Festool grip. Many Makita saws have a similar grip, as do Bosh and Hitachi. The Festool is an ambidextrous setup so cutting with your left hand when your work is on the right is safer and more natural.
I’ve had them all. Dewalt, Makita, Bosch... the Kapex by far walks all over them. Well worth the price tag. Been running one and now the latest iteration for about a decade. Never let me down, never had to replace anything other than the blade. Near set up. Set up anywhere space is an issue and the precision angle stop settings, lazer and bevel have gotten me out of more problem cuts than any other saw.
This thing is a godsend. There a reason high end finish professional use them.
With the triggers, you can disengage the safety stop very easily, there is a small plastic pin just inside the blade guard, that stops you from bringing the saw down. Just clip that off, and you will completely bypass that safety feature and be able to use it like any other miter saw. I did it with mine, it takes 3 seconds to do. You can also do this with the top button, that is to disengage the actual switch, go inside the handle and find where it interferes with the switch, and again cut the little bit of plastic that is causing this. Its well worth it. Also its a shame you werent able to try out the laser, it is amazing, it has a line either side of the blade and its ridiculously accurate.
I actually agree with almost everything you said except for the deal breaker... I carried one for almost eight months. I refused to buy the $100 a piece crown stops for a saw that i don't own, but the kicker was the day that i had to cut 4-1/4" base on the flat because to the right, the motor wouldn't clear.
Hahaha, I'm a DeWalt guy too and as soon as I saw that handle I thought the same thing!! Plus you can hold the blade guard up just a bit with your thumb on the DeWalt.
All my Dewalt gear is old gen and epic to use with none of theses issues people raise . Most people want the saw to do all the work all they do is throw the wood at it lol .
You need some skill to use a good mitre chop saw . How you hold the wood and how you use your body and how you stand are all very important when it’s all day long .
It’s ok but not for me to Noobie and clunky and that trigger nah mate .
All this new gen from dewalt is good but just a gimmick to sell to the apprentices today super green horns now .
Dewalt DW708 the best saw they ever created and the first gen 18 volt mini double compound mitre saw I have three of the same one . And worth twice now what I paid for then. All the other stuff that’s out is just not needed really with the selection we have today .
They have not really improved much other than upped the price and upped the battery power and the designs are going out the window . Could of had this tech 15 years ago but they start slow to make mega cash .
I’m not buying into it .
This saw is for DIY ‘ers and way way to clunky and pokey for me .
@@Bart-Did-it I have an older DW708 when the slides were up and down instead of side by side, The saw is a champ, could use new blade spindle bearings but otherwise perfect
@@caitlinleanna5028 under over rather than double barrelled . Much more stable why they go back to side by side I have no idea other than slightly more compact. I have the DE708 110 v
The 240v is even more powerful
@@caitlinleanna5028 not thrashed mine enough for upgrades or repairs yet had first one stolen .
And for some reason even from all my site work bashing my saws have never needed calibrating they still rock solid . And they get smashed good everyday
The problem is Dewalt is made in China by the slave labor. So is Milwaukee. Why does a Chinese company has a name from American city?
Actually a hint about the handle design is: The design made by the German engineers is smart and has a purpose: The handle is in line (i.e. same plane) with the disk so that the push force does not create a torsion effect like with other table saws that have the effect of reducing the cutting precision due to the excentric handle design (push force out of the disk force). Also, depending on the height of the workshop the handle may be also ergonomic (easy to use).
Also ambidextrous by default.
The cleanliness of the saw with dust collection is the reason I run one on my jobs. Most of my winter work in New England can be inside a customers house. I have to be as clean as possible wherever I setup.
For 1500 I can buy two vacuums, a 12" miter saw and a 10"sliding miter with 2 hoods to cover dust and 2 vacuum/tool switches. DeWalt or Bosch
@@juanoramo Yep. I have them too. And they still won't perform like the Kapex so far as dust collection is concerned. You need to be a commercial user that has to work indoors in the winter to understand how important dust mitigation is inside a customers home.
@@wxfield same here. that's why I got it. working oin new construction "Tall and skinny" homes with 54 stairs... kitchen is usually on the top floor "for the view" and the homeowners dont want contractors using the elevator...
@@michaelglaser1669 Roger that. I hated cleaning up after jobs with my beloved Makita. I had to setup zip walls and make cut rooms out of plastic. Even with those precautions it took 4-6 hours (or longer!) to cleanup. Not with the Kapex. Do the hourly analysis on your cut room setup times and take-down times..you'll probably find that paying for tools that have near perfect dust collection is well worth it..even with all the ergonomic problems Kapex has.
wxfield I don’t have issues with the ergonomics. So many people are used to stand directly in front of the blade, which is really dangerous. One should always be completely to the good-side of the cut (just like positioning on a table saw. So I like it!
I too looked at the Festool and ended up with the Bosch, this is after 17 years using the Dewalt 12" compound miter saw, which I liked but the Bosch is better. In regards to the Festool vs the Bosch is the sliding portion, the Bosch is hands down smoother and to me that was the deal breaker. No matter what other features, positive or negative, you will slide that saw nearly every cut so it better be smooth and the Bosch beats them all.
Is yours the Bosch with the axiom knuckle? I think that design is more versatile than the usual slide bar.
I have the bosch and the Festool. I worked in a joinery shop. Hands down the bosch is smoother. But the festool is much more accurate which is big in my business, and easier to get accurate. But it only being 10 in it loses out to me. I wouldn't purchase it again if only in 10 in.
We used Festool sanders in the field for solid surface installation. (Mostly countertops in homes and restaurants). All the tools they make are 100%.
All toolmakers have some good tools, and, some that are not great. I never liked Makita beltsanders, i prefer PorterCable, same goes for full sheet pad sanders. But, i love my Makita battery impact driver and drills. I love my Millwaukee Sawsall, but, the rest of the Millwaukee stuff i do not care for, except their drills which are very good. I use tools from every company, and, since i have been working as a professional cabinetmaker, trim carpenter, and, builder, i have had a few, if you looked into my jobsite trailer, you would find every color in the rainbow. I pick the best tool, not limiting myself to one manufacturer. I would not have this saw, if you gave it to me, After DE Walt came out with the handle they have, all the other manufacturers have copied it, i do not see why Festool did not either.
@@keithkuckler2551 I agree. My old Bosch jigsaw has really held up well. It has the long screw driver for tightening the blade. It has cut hundreds is sink holes in laminate countertops. Bosch made great hammer drills too. Porter Cable has the best routers, belt sanders, and the hinge mortise jig was awesome. My worm drive is an old Skil Saw. I have an old Makita 10” portable table saw that has cut miles of trim and boards. And my old 8” Hatichi (only tilts right) slider was my go to for crown and trim. The 14” saw is now the gold standard. Makitia battery drills are the best IMO. And yes, a Milwaukee saws all is hard to beat. I owed a Porter Cable, but Milwaukee is a beast. Thier old drills were the best too. Sorry for my tool rant, I could talk tools fo ev er! Cheers from Chicago
I’ve been using my Festool miter saw for several years, and I love it. I can set it up in customers houses right where I’m working, and save lots of time with hardly no clean up. Any new tool takes some getting use to.
@webnothing I use Bosch too and it's amazing. Festool makes quality tools, but but not mitre saws.
I think the superior dust collection is s big issue that benefits the user and customer big time.
Y'all do know they make an outlet tou can plug your saw and vac into where they come on simultaneously and it only run about $30. And works with any vac
You are absolutely right . I agree with you sir . No problem with my Festools at all.
Good review Richard,
There’s just too much “tool snobbery” out there. Guys just convince themselves that the more you spend
the better the product...and the end result
Great channel young man, truly a pleasure to watch and learn from you,
best wishes fro U.K.
"Tool Snobbery"...lol Guilty ! Great phrase though, I'm stealing it. :)
Today unfortunately, the more you spend....the better the tool most of the time.
Scotland Wood Works yep been there with golf clubs so I’ve learned to rack back when it comes to tools.....sadly
ass2mouthallday hi yeah I agree, but does it improve skill level? I have well healed DIY friends who have committed whole heartedly to Festool. So now it costs them £1200 to cut to a pencil mark when previously it cost them £600, but they’re happy and the Festool marketing team just love them....just Saying!
Your so correct Mr.Terry...I seen many guys spend a million on tools have everything you can think of, but shameful to say can not construct a dog house properly but they have the latest and greatest, but no true skills to get a job done correctly...lol
I used a Kapex saw for a few weeks and didnt like it at all. The dust collection is good as you said, but thats about all is was great at. On a jobsite its a toy. Its fragile, proprietary blades, the cost... Not worth it IMO. The Dewalt 12" or 10" is the way to go IMO.
I use an old Milwaukee chop saw that I've really hammered on for at least 20+ years. It's so old it was made in Brookfield, WI - and it works just fine AND I can still get parts for it. It doesn't have any safety features other than what exists between your ears...
Sounds awesome.
PSA: He’s a Festool guy now.
I know right lol 😆
I've been a trim carpenter and contractor for over 40 years. Most of my career was spent using a Makita LS1011 bought in 1993 and I still use it at times. I bought the Kapex saw in 2015 for about $1400. For me it is well worth the money because minor adjustments are so EASY and most importantly ACCURATE! This saves me a lot of time with less trips back to the saw, and time is money. Obviously if that degree of accuracy is not important to you, the price might not be worth it. The ergonomics is a non-issue; if you are a carpenter you should be able to suck it up and turn your hand a little without it being a problem, then again it's what I've been used to. My "young" helper who has been a carpenter for only about 30 years concurs with my view; he actually dislikes the orientation of the Dewalt and similar saws. But what do we know?
I’ve had my dewalt 12years ,never had to adjust it since I first set it up. Run miles of trim I’m happy
Don Payne I have the 12” dual bevel sliding compound miter saw...on 1x6 base it can’t cut a square outside corner. It always has a bow in it...thoughts?
Charlie Coleman Hey Charlie it’s not cutting out of square but has a bow in the middle of the cut? Have you tried a different blade. Mine is not a slide but I’ve used them quite a bit . They seem to do better if you make multiple passes. Really hard to say but it seems like the blade is flexing to achieve a bow? I doubt this helped much but good luck.
I think that a super fair personal feelings. Ergos are everything not only does it feel weird but it looks weird. I’d like to get you feelings on the Makita 36v slider
n3qdz
I have the 10” 36v and it has been a great saw! A bit heavy/bulky for moving around the job site. But I think overall you would not be disappointed. Straight cuts, tons of power that last all day, and no cord. If you are already running makita tools it’s a good buy in my opinion. Best of luck
It’s a killer saw, except for the aluminum detent plate. They cheaped out. There’s guys making ss replacements though
I use the makita 36v 10" saw professionally.
Stain grade and paint grade work. Once dialed in it works amazing. I had a few issues making beveled cuts that were square but that was mostly the way I was pushing down on the saw causing it to flex quite a bit.
I've had mine for a year? And put hundreds of hours on it. I'd buy it again in a heart beat
I have the makita 36v. Love mine! I'm not stuck on battery format, I want best tool for my application needs. Custom cabinet maker
I also have the Makita 36v Mitre Saw and love it, and it’s a brilliant tool platform, bang for your buck,you can’t go wrong.
I abandoned my Dewalt platform when they went from Nicad to Lithium, and as for the Festool,it’s just hard to justify the price tag
I bought one of theese because wanted precision and in that regard is perfect. You get used to the handle and the problem with he buttons can be fixed... by reading the manual!
Also, Dewalt is more expensive in Europe and Festool cheaper, so the price difference is smaller.
yea I think a lot of people forget about the price difference across the pond
That’s crazy . I think Festool are just the best tools in the world. They are expensive but it’s paid off when I do a expensive job. I just think it pays itself and the rest of the story is good profits .
Festool seems to have a cult following which focuses on the wonders of their dust collection. That is a great feature, but I don't find it to be compelling enough to convince me to spend the extra money. To each his own, but I'm going to keep my Dewalt saws & drills and use Porter-Cable and Bosch routers.
After you spend that much money its hard to admit the mistake.
Festool is the Iphone of the tool world.
I agree on the wrist mechanics...repetitive stress injury will result with long term use. That engineered grip is bad, very bad just by looking at it one can see the potentially harmful effect it will have with hours of use every day
I have a bosch and the handle can be moved to the position that you want, I have it like the kapex and don't like the horizontal like dewalt. I've been using it like that for over 15 years and never had any issues.
Finish Carpentry TV
The Festool Kapex, has some amazing features, like the ones you shared with us. The not so amazing features you also pointed out. The deal breaker for me was the motor going out. If that happens under warranty, there’s no worries there. Outside of the warranty, you get to spend $28 for the shipping box to ship it back to Festool. Then the repair bill, like in the $600 range.
On a positive note:
Festool’s track saw TS 55, is the very best saw I have ever used.
Steven B actually festool repair is really cheap, at least here in sweden.
I had a heavy ass front door fall on my ts55 and was like 😖 argh that's gonna cost me a new saw. It wouldn't plunge at all and I think it got all kinds of out of whack.
Took it back to the retailer, was without my saw for a week, came back good as new. Bill: $50 bucks.
Couldn't have been happier.
This was my personal tool.
If it would have been on a site they would have brought a replacement saw when they picked it up for service.
Not saying all festools are the best, but some are just great.
As much as I hate it, you need to pick the cherries and mix brands 😤
I just try to keep it to a minimum
My co-worker has this, I like it because it’s lighter than mine and easier to carry up three flights of stairs.
I have the Makita and it’s nots easy to carry, it’s really bulky and and has sharp edges whereas this Festool has a plastic casing and a compact base. Way easier to carry. I work in San Francisco and almost every house is 3 or 4 flights, it’s a feature that matters imo.
You need a damn crane to lift a DeWalt up 3 flights ffs its heavy.
with the UG cart you can wheel the kapex, its own stand, and extension wings all at the same time
@@hootiemike3091 almost need a crane just to move it a few feet
I've been using a miter saw for about 30 years, and I agree with you about the "deal breaker", and the hand motion. I use a Dewalt saw also.
To lower the saw to “dial in” to the cut line you just squeeze the trigger by your finger (don’t touch the one by your thumb). You are using it wrong.
What's the thumb button for?
@@sammy50001 presume it's a safety for the saw blade motor.
🤙
The way he does it in the video is pretty unsafe because he could very easily accidently engage the blade while he's "dialing in".
Tips.
Very important if you would like to saw with precision. (avoid torsion as much as possible)!
Always choose a Miter saw with a handle positioned in a vertical line above the saw blade.
Everything must be aligned, slide rails, handle, and saw blade,it is much better this way the blade will not tilt.
Because there is some torsion in the aluminum housing .
And choose an engine with softstart on it to prevent wear of the gear and worm shaft.
It is very important that everything is aligned.
Here are some examples to show how the handle must be positioned above the blade.
Bosch gcm 800 sj / Bosch gcm 8 sjl / Evolution rage 3 / FESTOOL KS 60 / HITACHI C12RSH2 / FESTOOL KS 60 E KAPEX / Metabo KGSV 72 Xact
(This also is the case with the Miter saw without the slide rails).
If you want you can test it yourself at home if there is torsion in the aluminum housing.
Step-1. First you make a saw cut from +-5 mm deep in to a flat piece of wood about +- 20 mm thick. To this with the normal handle positioned on the right side of the Miter saw.
Step-2. Then repeat this by pushing the saw blade down with your hand (finger) on the aluminum protective cover were the saw blade is cased in. Just now only do this without the running engine.
Step-3. Now you can see if the saw blade will be positioned in or next to the saw cut. If the saw blade is (+- 0,2 / 0,5 mm) next to the saw cut then there is torsion in the aluminum housing.
Step-4. therefor it is much better to choose a Miter saw with the handle positioned vertical in line above the saw blade.
Conclusion: how further away the handle is from the saw blade how more chance of torsion in the aluminum housing.(don't go for that).
My Dewalt Flexvolt 12 inch for the win. Huge fence, huge blades = huge cuts. I hate the handle on that Festool. It's like you're giving it a handshake every time
Funny for people who use this stuff all the time. First thing I noticed was how that handle was and thought....that would be awkward...then when he finally said it I actually laughed out loud to myself because I understood what he was saying. Great video...very informative and to the point. Subscribed!
He is Wright I have makita and dewalt. And I've used fesstool and the handle is weird. I will be moving over to fesstool though as it looks more professional in some sense.
I think the vertical grip is to keep all the pressure generated by your hand in a downward direction during a cut rather than having a horizontal handle offset to one side which creates a slight rotational pressure. If that makes sense
Irelevant. Negligible.
@@SandyridgeGR trivial, inconsequential... Do I win the word game??
@webnothing couldn't agree more. Basically I hate everything about this saw. Who would EVER buy a saw because it collects dust well...? I hate uncomfortable awkward tools.
@@ILikeCatsMoreThanILikeYou definitely in the running...
@@SandyridgeGR no other saw have that much precision in cuts. I dont know where are you from but in my country high end carpentry is finished in lacquer not painted wood like in US. Try cutting lacquer in 45 degrees with other than festool saws and you will see why it costs.
I have DeWalt and Festool miter saws. It took about three minutes to get used to the Kapex handle. I use the Kapex for hardwood crown because the cut quality is definitely better. Dust collection is almost non-existent on the DeWalt; I can cut inside with the Kapex with almost no dust. The angle finder gets a lot of use, but you need a working laser...The only problem I have with the Kapex is the smaller size of the table and smaller crown capacity. You have to cut flat on crown over 5-1/2”. The DeWalt cuts it standing with crown stops. We gravitate to the Kapex for furniture quality cuts in hardwood; for production stuff the DeWalt is fine
I previously had DeWalt for years and loved it but now own the kapex. Both great saws, both have good and bad points. What I would say tho is that people obviously prefer certain brands and tend to stick with them throughout their career so often they can become binded towards other tools and brands. For me the kapex 120 is fantastic, over priced yes, but a fantastic saw nether the less.
Is just a matter of getting used to it. I use to think like you. Keep on using it and you will end up loving it. We have 2 of these at our cabinet shop and they are amazing tools. It just seems too soon to do a review.
The dust extraction is a big factor for me I've had mine for 5 year's and I still love it. I had 3 other major band saws and they these were all too heavy and awkward to carry. The kapex is still a big saw but I would not worry about carrying it up stairs. For me the longer you use festool you realise that its well though out . Of course you never going to please everyone but interesting review P.S. did you press the laser bottom on top ?😅
Exactly.
Chop saw not band saw lol
@@georgechaney4585 Compound miter saw not chop saw 🙃
5:45 leave it to the safety department to make the tool more dangerous to use.
The large trigger releases the saw. The small thumb button starts the motor. He’s doing it wrong.
Should not need to pull any button or trigger to pull the saw down to precheck your cut. Deal Breaker for sure!
@@_oven no you can't pull the large trigger unless you pull down the small one. He also demonstrated that.
@@jarlnieminen4307 I have one that's about 7 years old now, and on mine you can pull the trigger and disengage the pivot lock without touching the thumb button. The big trigger disengages the pivot lock when pulled in part way, and then starts the motor when pulled in fully. The thumb button is a block that prevents the trigger from being pulled far enough to start the motor. It did take a bit to develop the muscle memory to smoothly work them, but once you get it it's easy. Trigger only to pull the saw down to check a cut, button plus full trigger pull to run the saw.
@@patmx5 I don't doubt that but it seems pretty clear here the video that this one will not function that way. It would make perfect sense if it did.
The moment I saw the saw, my reaction was "that's a horrible, non ergonomic handle grip/angle".
Then that weird double safety lock thing - having to push the "on/off" switch _partway_ to bring the blade down seems downright dangerous. I often bring down the saw without it running to get a cut to be precisely where I want it - and often my other hand is nearby moving the piece around pretty close to the blade -- but I move it before powering the saw on. Maybe I'd get used to this setup, but I'd be nervous about that setup for a while.
And that is where the laser comes in.
You alway know where it will cut with the dual laser line.
You dont need to check your cut with this thing. The laser is exactly on point every single time. It's a dual laser that shows thickness of the blade exactly. I have used usual right handed saws and I have used the kapex. It is absolutely horrendous to cut with your left hand with most saws and if you need to hold the piece with your hand, the motor comes in the way most of the times. The way you are holding the kapex is the only good point. If they would make a T-style handle on top it would make it even better.
He's pushing the wrong button. You only have to push the large one with your index finger - NOT the small one that you operate with your thumb. The thumb switch turns on the motor.
Grip is ambidextrous and doesn't transmit any rotational force
Re: the dust collection, it only works with festool vacuum. If you have a different vac, the hose is a different size and it only works with festool vac switch, not others. Also, festool has a proprietary arbor, so you can only use festool blades. Literally the only thing I like about that saw was the half degree marks make it easy to get a precise miter.
Proprietary ... another reason I stopped buying Fessy early on and sold everything except my sander. They make good stuff but you get charged a premium on all the supplies you need. The only reason I keep the sander ( it is a great sander... ES150? ) is I finally found a 3rd party supplier of the sanding discs with the proper hole punch outs.
As a DIYer I use a cheapo Evolution saw and I've found it perfect for my use.
@@cuebj The two saws I have by Evolution are customer returns. :-) They sell (well did when I bought them) on Ebay at a heavily reduced price. I also bought their oscillating saw brand new which is really very good.
Never giving up my Dewalt 12" Sliding compound miter saw, been using them for at least 20 years
Scottybravo1 agreed. festool is for the rich hobbyist that buys a $1000+ tool for every cut they need.
Table saws and mitre saws dewalt has figured out.
Brad Brinegar they have the best take saws and mitre saws yes. I have grown quite fond of their routers as well and am very impressed. As an old school porter cable user dewalt is nailing those out of the park. Also Their drills seem to be at the level of Mikita. Impressive.
I have a Kapex for almost 8 years , I'm pretty happy with it, it's really a finishing saw , some of the features are really nice . too bad the laser did not work because it's the best I seen of any chop saw so far . IMO . funny the handle never bather me .
When on the job you want a quick and nimble saw. No ruckus or complicated processes.
I know festool is a great brand but it's more a high price than anything else and often only festool works with festool.
For the same money a Dewalt or makita has a better price to quality ratio and it works universaly, festool is for the established company or already "rich" company.
You can disengage the trigger safety stop very easily, there is a small plastic pin just inside the blade guard, that stops you from bringing the saw down. Just clip that off, and you will completely bypass that safety feature and be able to use it like any other miter saw. I did it with mine, it takes 3 seconds to do. You can also do this with the top button, that is to disengage the actual switch, go inside the handle and find where it interferes with the switch, and again cut the little bit of plastic that is causing this. Its well worth it
I’ve been in the construction business for almost 30 years and have owned my own business for almost 10 now. That being said I don’t like DeWalt tools at all but your honesty in other videos was refreshing. You sir have another sub.
Its not super surprising the things you mentioned that you didn't like. But I think the way you like to work this saw really isn't needed. The two big features that make Kapex attractive is the dust collection and the rail system. You can take that saw right into the room your working on and dont have to worry about dust and you can also stick the saw practically against the wall and get full use of the saw. No more slogging out to the driveway every time you have to make a cut or trim off a smidge for the 100th time. Now, is that worth $1200 bucks? That's why I dont own one when I own many other festool tools. I have been looking to change out my Dewalt 12" slider though. You cant cut an accurate miter on that thing and I dont care what anyone says. There's too much runout and too much blade deflection. I think the smaller blade of the Kapex will do much better.
Great observations. It seems to work very well for a lot of people and they swear by it. If I spent that much on it I would learn to like it too I guess.
I have been in the trades my hole life and every Contractor I know lines their cut line up with the blade, that looks way dangerous having to pull the trigger a little bit to be able to line up the cut line. I 100% agree with you on how weird that handle is as well, I have never use a Festool but just that alone makes me not want to try it either. Lol
He wasn't doing it correctly. You don't have to push the top safety button to lower the saw. You just pull the trigger lightly and it will unlock. Even if you pulled the trigger all the way at that point the saw won't come on unless you are pushing the safety button at the same time. I'd say it's safer than the Dewalt since on those saws you could (not likely but could) accidentally hit the trigger when you're lining up the cut and the saw will come on. There's no way the Kapex will start unless you have your thumb pressing the safety, which you shouldn't be doing when lining up. The laser really limits the need to line up cuts. That said, the handle on the Dewalt is more comfortable.
I always line up my cuts with the DeWalt and the D handle makes it so much better of a motion and you don't have to put your finger on the trigger to bring it down. I set up my saw with a rigid shopvac and a vac/tool switch and a dust hood when working inside. It works for half the price.
Mark Gross you know it has a twin laser line setup right? You just put the red laser line on your mark and cut, no need to do anything else, perfect every time. Even on 45degrees it remains perfect.
@@riverbuilder2251 yes I'm sure it does, all my saws have a laser line even my tile saw. But I have never used them I just always use the blade. Lol
@@riverbuilder2251
Lasers never perfectly match blade thickness. I've used the Festool at a tool show, & the laser is only accurate to 1/32nd of an inch. That's good enough for crown molding & general carpentry... but fine wood workers look for hair line seams on their joints, which requires matching the blade to your cut line for ultra precision.
I’m with you on every point made. What I would say is the reason some saws have that handle type other than the ambidextrous situation is to minimize lateral movement while cutting. Usually on sliders. Makes some sense but at this level if I want to bang out cuts without being real easy and thoughtful on my motions I’m using my Single bevel compound. Thanks bud!
Нет, это просто пилы для работы на полу. Рукоятки с горизонтальным расположением применяются в настольных инструментах.
I have my Kapex for over 12 years now and never had to replace anything besides the sawblades. I’m surprised by anyone finding the grip position awkward? How about any handsaw? Here in Europe we use upright grips on handsaws too ;).
The reason the handle is positioned on top is not for left/right-hand usage, but so the blade does not deflect sideways when you pull down the handle (and use some force like with solid wood) I had the makita ls1219 for about one week, but sold it and bought the kapex mainly for that reason. When i cut a big piece of oak, the front was square, but the back bottom not. Also it came perfectly calibrated out of the box, could only get the makita cut perfect either at 90 or 45°, not both, and that after half hour of tinkering with a lot of screws. I agree that the safety switch is awkward though.
Some people like myself cant be convinced any other way. Your corect the old model had motor issues which festool fails to admit but somehow they miraculously improved the motor design for the 2019 and up models...i have used a kapex for years and absolutely love it for trim carpentry, i have owned the bosch axial, dewalt, hitachi, makita and kobalt miters saws over the years but wouldn't trade the kapex back for any of them - every day pro use though i have to say the bosch axial glide dominates.
I immediately noticed when you grabbed the handle how awkward it was
I could tell just by looking at it and im not a finish guy, but a window guy who uses my mitre saw once a month. (Its a DeWalt😉)
That angle finder immediately reminded me of the device Egon Spengler used in ghostbusters to detect the supernatural lol. 👻
I used festool at the Dallas Makerspace and they are very nice to use. Ryobi is like a Toyota Camry, Dewalt is like a Lexus ES350, and Festool is like a Tesla Model S. If I had festool, I would use the dust collector everytime I use the chop saw or the sander, and if I need to vacuum my car for a DIY car detailing, I would turn the dust collector on to max power and clean out the crumbs, stones, twigs, little wrappers, and leaves with it and use the festool rotex to polish the dashboard and condition the leather/leatherette upholstery and trim. The trigger on the Kapex that feels weird to you, does not feel weird to me. I actually find it as a very nice safety feature to prevent missing digits or serious cuts.
I’m impressed with deWalt.
We bought a batteri operated circular saw to cut some 12mm MDF.
Charged the batteries for 6 hours before we started.
We managed 2 full length cuts per batteri. Super stoked. Fabulous piece of equipment. Without it we wouldn’t even have managed 1 cut.
I believe the handle is located in that position to minimize runout and deflection of the blade for a straighter cut.
The position isn't the problem, it's the design that is.
Honestly can't believe that, The 2" of axial pressure that you can put with your hand in twisting force is literally nothing when you're talking about down force. Blade deflection and runout has 99% to do with how rigid the build is and sharp the blade is.
you can have horizontal handle right on top as well.
I've never seen a Festool tool that justifies the price. The do have excellent dust collection, but not at 2x or 3x the cost. I also prefer the throttle-style handle over the one on the Kapex but I've used both in the past, including Dewalts. The 12" Bosch Axial Glide would be the saw I would buy if I needed one.
Absolute agree on the Bosch. Not the greatest to lug around , but to me far superior build quality to the Festool, with against the wall capability if needed, at nearly half the price.
The vacuum and drywall sander is amazing.
I would never take anything but Festool when going to a customer to do final fitment and install of cabinetry and such. Why? Because if I had a shitty Black and Decker, I'd spend 2 hours cleaning up all the dust. With a more proper machine like a Bosch or a Makita I'd spend an hour cleaning up. Festool dust collection is so incredibly well designed that I spend maybe 10-20 minutes cleaning up after a job.
I can't bill the customer for hours spent cleaning up the worksite in their home. That's gotta come out of the margin on my end, so the less time I spend doing clean up I can't bill anyone for, the better. As that means more time for things that I can bill a customer for.
It's the same with a Lamello Zeta. Yes it's a 1700 euro biscuit joiner, with a couple of very specific party tricks. But these very specific party tricks save me between a half hour and an hour on the average project. So again, I do not care what the tool costs, it will pay for itself in a matter of weeks to months.
@@fermitupoupon1754 I tend to agree with regards to field work, as noone beats Festool in dust collection, hands down, but for shop work I shy away. When so many cooks have their hands on it, it becomes an expensive soup.
Bosch 12"glide has an accuracy issue.
I‘m from Germany, so I could easily be a Festool fanboy.
I‘m not.
The highest percentage of my tools is DeWalt, then Bosch, a few Makita and Metabo.
My only Festool machines are the Kapex and their vacuum. And even the Kapex is mounted on a DeWalt saw stand.
When you‘re looking for a miter saw and your highest preferences are in that order precision, space requirement and dust collection, you cannot beat the Kapex.
Yes, the handle looked awkward to me as well, but I got used to it very quickly. Being precisely in line with the blade for both right- and left-handed persons alike, it adds to cutting precision by reducing the tendency to twist the saw head by the operator.
I don‘t say it‘s the best or the worst handle design out there. It‘s just not that kind of a problem some of you may expect it to be.
Good job, you buy your dewalt tools nearly twice the price than U.S citizens. Just check the home depot online... But you still have Mafell tools which are awesome
They could better the design by making the handle two small stubs with triggers on each side so that it could work as a T-style handle and an I-style handle.
@@perrinekld7451 Actually I've bought several DeWalt tools from the U.S., was cheaper than in Germany even with taxes and shipping costs added. There are also some DeWalt tools which are available in the States, but not over here - and vice versus.
Corded bandsaw in Germany? Nope. Ordered the U.S. version and run it using a transformer.
On the other hand, the excellent corded D26500 hand planer is not available in the States...
Mafell, yes, excellent tools, but even more expensive than Festool. And Festool is cheaper in Germany than in the U.S.
@@chevy60 yep, there's some good old style reliable corded carpentry tools (dewalt and makita) still assembled in europe.
@@chevy60 but for basic cordless tools, einhell made a new 18v line, and it looks awesome for the price. All chinesium of course like barely all dewalt cordless tools (don't be fooled with the fake 'U.S made with global materials lol') it's all chinese. I don't think we really need an expensive non china made drill like Hilti Festool or Panasonic, it's not worth the price. I'd rather spend my money on a festool domino, lamello zeta, or a perfect mt55 tracksaw.
Hi! I've got the milwaukee 10" cordless. Good tool. I've used the dewalt 780s and I've used this festool. They all have their little positives and negatives. The milwaukee is such a good all-rounder but the cordless, with 9Ah battery doesn't have the power they say it does. It's just not as punchy as a corded tool. In thick timber I can stall it out. The one thing I can say the festool is the best at, is their motor control. Probably not such an important thing for finish work, but when you're cutting thick section, treated timber, the festool does not lose RPM. That's a really good feature for me, and something the milwaukee lacks. I haven't heard that they burn motors, maybe in the UK the 240V ones don't do this. But it could be to maintain RPM they pull more current than they can handle. This festool, I agree on the handle, it's a weak point from them, which is a shame, because otherwise it's a well designed and built tool, as most festool products are. Their tracksaws and drill-drivers are very good. I'd also add that festool make some of the most accurate and precision tools you can buy, but they don't enjoy the beat downs from site work. Carpentry work and assembly, where you are able to be careful, is what we use them for, but I wouldn't be buying their hammer drills. Love from London UK.
I agree , One reason I love my DeWalt is the grip position , It's a 12 inch Slider , And being able to lower the blade on to a pencil line with out the blade rotating , Along with the many other features that my saw has that I don't see here on this saw Also I have it Paired with the DeWalt 4 Foot Stand , The Stand Also Has Many Handy Features , Thanks .
DeWaukee: I only use them as well. :)
I broke my handle on the 7" M18 Milwaukee mitre saw: it was very cold (-20 DEg C), and I grabbed it, and it just cracked. It may have been weakened before.
Have you seen any cracks in yours?
For the vastly superior dust collection, putting price aside, I think I would try it and see if I thought I could get used to the odd grip. Good review.
I love the 8" hitachi brilliant all rounder, light and reliable also well priced at £200.
I own Festool Kapex KS60 but still use little Hitachi
The early model C8FSE8 made by Hitachi was the best. That same model made today and most Hitachi Miter saws made in China are a piece of crap. I still have the original and it's still going. Smooth as silk.
I use the 8” Hitachi as well...very smooth and accurate...I lay the crown flat and use the positive stops and get perfect results
@@jamesalexander8368 same, saves loads of time scribing with close to perfect results 👌👍👍
You know, I have an old blue Ryobi 8 1/4 inch saw, rare now and too old to use safely, and I loved the mobility and 8 inch blade so much better than a 7 1/4. I think a 7 1/4 is just too limited in size for a chopper. .I really want a modern little 8 inch miter saw for carry-ins. The old blue Ryobi is retired of course, but I really did love its size in the old days. Is this saw a good comparison to say a Milwaukee 7 1/4?
In my shop we only use Festool. The reason for the handle being the way it is, is so you can use it with both your right hand and left and not have any differences in feel. That is also why there are two lasers. Time is money and being able to cut from both sides save money.
In case no one has mentioned this, My Kapex does not require you to press the top button and handle button to swing the blade down. Only the grab handle has to be pulled and then the blade is free to pivot down. You only press the top button to allow the handle switch to fully engage and turn on the saw.
I think after a while you just get used of it, I started out 20 plus years ago using Makita chopsaws with a similar orientation handle and at the time wondered how you could possibly use the dewalt handle, then I bought one and still have it and am of the opinion that you will after a while get used of the handle either way
I actually like the vertical handle, push straight down in line with cut. Mines probably 8 years old with no issues.
Ok then boy.
I thought it was a horizontal handle
@@David-ls4qp you do realize that all commercial chop saws (like an Omga) are all vertical handles too.
That un-ergonomic handle is the first thing I recognized in this video, considering the innovations and cost of products from this brand I am surprised they have stuck with the old style handles. Another great vid, cheers.
I always thought they used a handle like that so the downward force was inline with the blade. Less chance it would cause the blade to twist.
Darrin yeah I think the dewalt might start twisting when it gets old and everything gets loose
I asked Festool about it a few years back. They claim that the handle design reduced vibration in the blade. It sounded like BS to me.
@@darrinmc u are right , once u put pressure on a cut with a side handle like dewalt the saw head twists slightly that's why festool designed theirs in line with blade
@@darrinmc It's not like it would be impossible to have an ergonomic handle directly inline with the blade.
I have a DeWalt, I totally understand having to bring the blade down to the cut line without it running. Having to hit that button greatly increases the chance for injuries! I've already lost one finger, so believe me ALL those other features aren't near the cost of losing one finger!!
Actually, you were right about the price. The Kapex model featured in the Amazon link is the older (now replaced) model 561287. After years of user complaints about premature motor burnout, in 2019, Festool finally updated the Kapex with a new motor and a few other useful improvements. The new model is designated as the 575306 and is sold in the USA at $1475. Festool made a small number of older (561287) Kapex models in 2019 but with the new motor, so even if you had the older carcass version (561287) you may -- or may not -- have used one with the upgraded motor. As some of your other commenters observed, the Euro version uses a completely different 240v motor, not the 120v sold in the USA. The 240v Euro version is generally highly regarded as a rock-solid performer. Let's hope the USA version now has a more reliable motor. Even so, I, too, don't like the ergonomics of the handle design. And as to the older 561287 Kapex version, I say "No thanks at ANY Price."
Had my festool saw for the last ten years I mainly work from a joinery shop so it's really good in there its not really a site saw
I love it but most of my kit is festool
I agree this os better used as a cabinetry/furniture tool. That's what I use mine for mostly but have definitely put in a lot of hours on it remodeling homes as well. It's a high precision tool and I hear people saying theirs breaks all the time but I've had mine for about five years and never had a problem. Maybe people are being a bit rough on their tools lol
@@mikehunt8170 definitely more of workshop saw
For the sliding detents, you can make an adjustment to make it more smooth.
I'm guessing that poor saw gets bounced around from pro end user and dealer shows and probably seen little love in its lifetime.
I love my Binford 1000!
We can kick it up to 100,000
I seriously enjoy your videos. As far as TH-cam videos go you are the smoothest carpenter ive ever seen.
I can get good results with any saw. And I don’t let my muscle memory prevent me from learning something new. That handle is more ergonomic and comfortable once you’re used to it. It’s called a pistol grip, and it’s on most tools, just not American miter boxes. My favorite saw ever is the 10” hitachi made in Japan, same grip.
Agree
there are more broken Dewalt tools out there than covid-19 infections 🤣
This comment aged well…
I DO like how the rail that it slides on doesn’t protrude out the back, I had to make my miter saw table extra deep to accommodate the rails and I have limited space
Consider the Makita LS1019L 10" ($450 on Amazon) if you are liking the dust collection and rear clearance (forward guide rails) on the Festool.
I got to try this at a show and I was shocked how cheap it felt and it's not that powerful it bogged down cutting a 4 by 4 treated lumber
I’m not gonna contest what “cheap” feels like. But why would they be demonstrating cutting a 4x4 on a tool that is designed for cutting 1x’s? That’s like these channels that use 2” paddle bits on an impact driver just because it fits into the tool. Right tool for the job. Right tool for the job. That’s not the reason I DONT own this tool. It doesn’t cut 5&1/4 base standing up or big crown nestled into the cradle. For a grand, I don’t want any limitations.
I cut 4x4 oak on my DeWalt, no problem and 1x. Versatility counts
100% agree with you on the handle. Unless that Mitre Saw cures cancer, I'm not buying it for the reason of the handle location. I had a $150 Mastercraft Mitre Saw and had the same handle. That tool was made for homeowners...
We did the same buy in one of our shops
Weird adjustments, low power and the worst ergonomics on a chop saw. Can,t beat the DeWalt chop saws ! Oh, ya, the motors went out on both, and the dealer/repair is super slow!
Ive had the same thoughts I def Like my Dewalt better
very smart and intuitive review you've made about use and features . my point would be that you are an amazing trim carpenter and you have shown us that you dont need to spend festool money to get super-amazing results. I'm sure im not the only one who feels this way. Thanks Sifu
Interesting review. This matches what I've seen and heard: the tools are good, and they do a great job with the dust, but you better not throw them around. But finish carpenters know better than to throw their tools around anyway...
Do you shine your saw after every use? Jk
I don’t think it’s really meant for job site, look at crafted workshop. His works incredibly in his furniture and cabinet making shop.
@@juanoramo It good to give your tools a rub down every once in a while to make sure they are in proper working order. That is unless you can hire an employee to rub them down for ya.
Finish carpenters are God's chosen people.
I’m a Bosch glide user. Forrest chop master perfect flat miters in everything hickory to maple.
Bosch pro here too! Tried the festTool didn't like any of their products. Didn't like the price or the hype either.
For a second there I thought you were going to start drinking the green cool aide.
I use both festool and dewalt. I still prefer my dewalt miter saw, dewalt jigsaw and dewalt sanders. Although I will say the festool dust collection on the rotex sander line is unbelievable. I mean zero dust. Where festool really shines that I think you would like especially on jobs like the wainscoting job is the domino jointer. Imagine never having to worry about clamping joints to keep the stiles from walking on you when you screw in the pocket hole. Simply scribe your lines domino on the lines and you have automatic alignment both the distance spacing and never having proud stiles again. Saves a ton of time over drilling with the Kreg pocket hole jig. Maybe you already have the Kreg foreman and that speeds you up but not having to clamp each joint is worth the cost of the tool.
I worked with a "Festool Freak" and had to share his saw as my Dewalt was stolen on the job site. Worked on it for a full week, 12 hour days, on a job, 150 rooms in a high end hotel, tons of detailed trim work. Have to say the dust collection is superb! Major draw back was the handle position and lock mechanisms . They where awkward and doing volume work on it for a full week was fatiguing on the wrist and forearm. It’s a nice saw, however there is nothing that overwhelming on it that would entice me to purchase one at that price point. We cracked jokes about the crook stealing the Dewalt and leaving the Festool.
Simple minded fools probably mistook the festool for some weird harbor freight crap cuz they never seen it in the pawn shop b4 😆
👍🏻 Thank you for making this video! The description of “this” is ergonomics.
6:40 yep, that's the first thing I thought when I saw that handle!
Euro standard nanny state level safety. Gay.
The only way I could see it maybe working is if you have it on the floor and you are over the tool more while on your knees which I doubt is what they had in mind
This is an ergonomic design flaw. After several hour a day and day after day , that awkward hand angle will give some users problems.
The grip being the way it is lets a right-handed or left-handed user operate it just the same. It takes getting used to, and maybe it's not perfect, but the fact that it can be operated by more people is a win. And yes, the motor can go out. Mine did after 8 years of constant usage. Festool replaced the motor and overhauled the entire saw, new blade and all, for free.
I use it all the time and in my humble option it is fabulous, it’s also much lighter than most miter saws which is a huge plus.
You have to admit it’s light, I own 2 of them and stands I can carry saw and stand together and still lighter then dewalt or Milwaukee
Festool have developed a reputation for innovative well thought out designs... looks like they dropped the ball with this one! I used a saw many years ago that had a similar arrangement, but the handle was vertical, not horizontal like that one. It was good to use, sort of like pulling down on a chain, and worked with either hand. The handle like your DeWalt is the most natural to use, unless you want to use it left-handed.
Excellent review. Wanted to go more into Festool, but quit after two purcahases. They are big on this integrated, modular system with all their tools. I stopped after my second product when I recovered from sticker shock and the price of replacement parts, particularly after I had to buy a replacement part. And my sense that those tools are really meant for a shop environment. Unfortunately, I need my tools for a dual purpose, both to be used on the job and in the shop, something that gives me more bang for my buck.
LOL, let me guess, you realized that 300 vs 2300 will cuts wood and that feature really wasn't worth it.
@@TechieTardDo not even know where to begin with tools. I have a love/hate relationship with them and I have had more tools lost or stolen, then I have ever owned. Then the whole corded versus battery debate. I am so sick of extension cords. Any cord I hate it. And I am so tired of the batteries dying on me and having multiple chargers. More chargers equals more crap to keep track of. I can't win. Last, but not least, I hate being the guinea pig with tools, but what are your options?. You buy a tool, use it in the field or in the shop and you find out later there is a feature or something you do not like about it. And I have had them all:Rigid, Porter Cable, Bosch, Hilti, Hitachi, Milwaukee, Makita, Festool,Dewalt, no Ryobi or Fein ever, so which one am I missing? Name it and I probably have had it.
Need to retract at least part of my vitriol towards tools. Had the 10 inch Makita sliding compound miter saw. That tool I really liked. Light weight, easy to change your angle setting and cut smooth as butter. Is it mitre or miter? Have seen it spelled both ways.
I love my Festool chop saw, much better all day long then the two Dewalts I have. I use the Dewalts for crap wood, I use the Festool for fine wood working... it is that GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!