One thing that I do when drilling overhead to stop metal shards from getting in my eyes, is to take a microwave magnetron magnet, "donut ring" shape and stick it to the metal surface and drill in the middle, "ring surrounding the drill". This catches 99% or more of the shavings. This may be a way to stop metal from getting in the tank. Using this magnet with a hole in the centre and drilling with that in place, will do better than the grease for sure. .
That'll save the eyes, since the tank is a ferris metal you'll be channeling magnetic Flux lines to the side of the tank they are trying to avoid getting shavings into, additionally magnetizing the small chips making them difficult to remove until enough time passes and they let go falling past the pick up. Although you have given me the reason I haven't tossed my broken microwave yet, definitely need that magnet so thanks. (Someone could always do your way and leave the magnet there for good, trapping foriegn metal out of the fuel for years, but missing out on accidentally erasing their favorite VanHallen cassette)
great video, question. i cant seem to find any information if the vapor return line should enter fuel tank high or low. also should it enter in tank in the fuel or above the fuel?
Nice, I needed this. My 89 f250 transfer valve failed and I've decided to isolate the front tank to feed the engine rather than fix or replace the valve (because it will fail again and send fuel to the wrong tank). The rear tank I want to leave in place, wire its pump to a switch, and use it to refill the front. But, I did not want to plumb it into the return line to the front tank with the engine return line, even with a check valve I was afraid the fuel would still go to the rear tank and overflow. Now with this I can buy a new front tank which I need anyway, add this fitting, and I can refill the front tank at will and the two tanks are isolated with no valve to fail between them. This fitting will also be up near the vent, so no need for a perfect seal. Could also throw some Seal-all or JB Weld around it.
I have a picture in my mind of someone vacuuming out a tank that's not quite dry at all. There are videos of people sucking up gas with a vacuum. It's not pretty when those gas vapors get to that vacuum motor. EXCELLENT video though. Thank You.
Thanks, very detailed video and advice! I want to set up a return line for a carb set up. The link you provided states EFI 6AN. Can I use for a Carb setup? Thanks again! Cheers from Motown.
Modifying a gas cap to have a Schrader valve or air tool connection, or simply a rubber hose to the fuel line, a decent pressure regulator set for like 5 or ten psi will create just enough positive pressure to eject all the metal debris when making a hole in the tank. Not as much fun as a 9mm but you'd have two holes that way
@@Ares-jx4ep I could see that working on some filler necks. Others not so much. Plus the welding aspect is outside of most folks skill levels. Either way, I’d be interested in seeing a 77 foot Mustang II! 🤣
Don’t think so. It’s a rivnut. I’d imagine it would pull through the plastic before it would tighten down and seal. You could do a bulkhead fitting and get a good result I’d think.
I'm crazy about rare-earth magnets. I'm thinking of using the grease but also stick a couple magnets to the step bit also to grab those metal shards. I stick those powerful magnets to my oil filters as well. I also stick them to various grounded bolt-heads in my engine compartment to stick voltmeter connectors to or on the cowl or fender of a car I'm working on to hold tools or paperwork. They're handy little guys. That's why I'm crazy about rare-earth magnets.
Anything that’s metal on metal has the chance of creating spark. Take every precaution to prevent it. Popular method is to completely fill the tank with water then do your drilling/cutting/welding.
I have a 72 c10. How do you feel about using the overflow/vapor line as a point for return? The line is just hanging at the bottom of the passanger side and plugged seems useless
It’s a great question! I have a 71 with the emissions tank and need to see what that space looks like and if the return will interfere with the filler neck. Replacing the fuel tank sometime this summer. Have though of trying it there. We’ll see!
Step bits are terrible for dropping chips, The grease trick works far better with a reg bit because the spiral taper naturally pulls material away from the workpiece.
I use a dry tank, obviously and turn it upside down and use grease the few I've used. Then take a pick and paper towel and pull it around. Worked so far. It's some aggravation
Quick question, if I swap my original single line sending unit on my 69 chevelle for a gm unit that has a return line, can I just run a return line from the regulator?
For like a turbo drain? Yes and no. Yes you could, no it wouldn’t be a big enough size. -10 at a minimum. -12 would be better. You don’t want a choke point there and have oil back into the turbo.
It’s not returning gallons per minute. It’s a slow trickle of fuel and you’d get more chaos from making turns in the vehicle Ike than what a return line in the top of the tank would introduce. No worry.
Tanks Inc. told me that the return line needs to exit the fuel at a low point of the tank. It must be submerged in fuel which is why is't usually incorporated within the sending unit. Thoughts$
If it's an older car with no return line, I could actually see trying to port some free space on base plate of the sending unit. Cause then you could take that out and not get any metal shavings in the tank.
Not enough room on the sending unit for it. At least I don’t recall seeing one that had enough room to put one. The footprint of fairly large for the return port. Unless you can find one with a stainless plate that you could tig a line to.
will adding a return line to a carburetor that runs on about 7 pounds of pressure, reduce the pressure to the carburetor too much -- assume using a stock mechanical fuel pump -- im thinking the fuel is constantly running back to the tank and will starve the motor
@@MuscleCarSolutions ok-- i have a 66 ford truck 352-- 2 brl-- it has serious vapor lock issues- solution on u tune --add a return line- the filter i got has a 1/4 return line to the tank-- not installed yet- duralast FF3420DL-- i get 9MPG-- camper on back-- uses a ton of gas at 60mph-- a friend said the return line which is as i understand it-- is wide open will cause low carb pressure on highway - no pressure regulator-- tests with filters that dont have a return line-- dont address the issue- also its a mechanical pump so might not have the thru put of an electrical pump- i could install it and test it but id like to get infromt of the problem-- really appreciate your input -
When you say vapor lock, what do you mean? It’s having issues while running or after you drive it and shut it off it’s hard to start? The fuel economy side is difficult. You’re not going to find big improvements in the engine. That’s why overdrive transmissions now have 8 and 10 gears. It’s keeps the operating rpm low. The return line has nothing to do with what psi the carb sees. Only potential volume. If it’s a factory pump it’s probably adequate if it’s operating as it should.
@@MuscleCarSolutions vapor lock-- running at 60 slow down to 10mph its 110degrees outside-- gas boils- im stuck-- hard to start also if i stop sometimes when very hot-- same reason gas boils- i think the idea behind the filter with the return line is 2 fold- 1-- vapor is routed back to the tank 2- since there is constant gas flow the gas stays cooler- many people on u tube say this works- it sounds like it should- im stuck with 9mpg-- i only bring it up to show that the motor requires a lot of gas-- so we are getting to the issue: you said : The return line has nothing to do with what psi the carb sees. Only potential volume. -- i think thats true only if the pump can pump enough gas to run the motor as well as create a constant flow of gas back to the tank-- i think this type of filter has a constant opening so liquid gas goes to the tank the same as unwanted vapor- if you blow thru it air goes right out the return-- so to be absurd but make a point-- if the pump was outputted to an open ended garden hose it would produce zero pressure-- maybe you answered the issue by saying you think the factory pump should accommodate both the motor as well as the return-- i guess the only way i know is to run this thing at 60mpg with the return hooked up and see if the motor starves for gas-- appreciate your input--
@@quickfix9815 the engine is the heat source. The carburetor is negatively affected by that heat and the fuel (assuming it’s got some ethanol in it) is paying the price. I think your best bet is to start with blocking the heat source. You mentioned it’s a 2 bbl carb? Some digging might find you a company that makes a phenolic spacer. I’ve seen universal wood laminate spacers that you cut out to match your carb/intake. Don’t know. You’ve got some research to do. Either way, it’s a common problem due to bad fuel. That’s where I’d start.
@@MuscleCarSolutions Agreed. Since this one has the wrench flats to keep it from spinning probably not needed. Trying to do the cheaper ones with a bolt instead of using the tool, I've had them spin on me. I has another question for you. . .have you ever done any fuel systems with hard line and specifically how did you transition from the hard line to the AN fittings/hose. Just looking for tips for an EFI system I am about to do. I don't really want to run hose all the way.
I almost always run line the entire way. Very rarely do I use hard line. If you want to retain it, you can with a AN fuel line adapter. Similar to this one: amzn.to/2YuZuT2
Too thick for that use. If you read any articles on drilling into a blind cavity, one or the common tips is to use grease to catch the material that’s cut so it doesn’t fall into that area. It’s just not as effective as people think.
@@dank1349 I guess if it’s worth your time to try it? Only saw it done once with a friends project and out it came because the gas gauge looked like a tach bouncing off the rev limiter.
@@MuscleCarSolutions i thought about taking 3/8 steel tubing bending an angle on it and tigging it in. Obviously to locate it as far away from the sending unit the better but the shavings sounds like a problem and I have a S.S. tank so a magnet is going to work well fishing them out.
@@dank1349 there’s always that to consider too! Never an easy solution for problems. If you can TIG, then maybe just punch a hole, tig it back shit with the pipe size you want and locate it anywhere?
Let me tell you what I would do, I would pressurize the tank before drilling and keep it hooked to a compressor so the shavings are blown out as you drill. ;)
How install a vent in a piece of sheet metal! Why didn't you actually show it on your tank? Hmmm. Forget the drilling (metal chips and possible sparks). Just Tee-off the Evap return fitting, or remove the sending unit and add a fitting to that!
Because this was the second video I shot. The first video was on an actual tank and an endless amount of Karen’s complained they couldn’t see in the tank. Can’t seem to win with you folks. 😂
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grease is meant to absorb heat and preserve the life of your bits....
One thing that I do when drilling overhead to stop metal shards from getting in my eyes, is to take a microwave magnetron magnet, "donut ring" shape and stick it to the metal surface and drill in the middle, "ring surrounding the drill". This catches 99% or more of the shavings. This may be a way to stop metal from getting in the tank. Using this magnet with a hole in the centre and drilling with that in place, will do better than the grease for sure. .
That'll save the eyes, since the tank is a ferris metal you'll be channeling magnetic Flux lines to the side of the tank they are trying to avoid getting shavings into, additionally magnetizing the small chips making them difficult to remove until enough time passes and they let go falling past the pick up. Although you have given me the reason I haven't tossed my broken microwave yet, definitely need that magnet so thanks. (Someone could always do your way and leave the magnet there for good, trapping foriegn metal out of the fuel for years, but missing out on accidentally erasing their favorite VanHallen cassette)
Excellent "how to" video. Gave me the confidence to tackle this myself. thanks.
This one is easy now with the right part. Go for it and be safe if you’re using a tank that’s had fuel in it.
Over compressing that seal is key. Good reminder. These aren't under pressure like a fuel line to carb. Thank you.
Well explained!
I got a little kick when you used a tape measure to make a random hole.
great video, question. i cant seem to find any information if the vapor return line should enter fuel tank high or low. also should it enter in tank in the fuel or above the fuel?
Nice, I needed this. My 89 f250 transfer valve failed and I've decided to isolate the front tank to feed the engine rather than fix or replace the valve (because it will fail again and send fuel to the wrong tank).
The rear tank I want to leave in place, wire its pump to a switch, and use it to refill the front. But, I did not want to plumb it into the return line to the front tank with the engine return line, even with a check valve I was afraid the fuel would still go to the rear tank and overflow. Now with this I can buy a new front tank which I need anyway, add this fitting, and I can refill the front tank at will and the two tanks are isolated with no valve to fail between them. This fitting will also be up near the vent, so no need for a perfect seal. Could also throw some Seal-all or JB Weld around it.
No need to add anything else to seal it. The gasket works just fine if it’s not over tightened.
Great demonstration and explanation
Thanks!
Cool- this is the first time I saw the grease tip. Thanks.
It appears it may be a all round better deal to put a return line fitting in the tube where you fill the tank
thats exactly what I did
@@martinreed5964 # mee too.
You mean where the line from the carb goes into the tank or where you pump it at the gas station
That looks like a good setup, be nicer if it had a drop line to keep from geyting as much areation of the fuel, especially in a Diesel application.
Exactly the video I was looking for. Thanks!
You also might try drilling upside down with a shop vac going, maybe tape the vac close to the area
Sounds like a good idea.
@@MuscleCarSolutions Yah I do it all the time I a remodeler, I'll tape the shop vac to the tool or area Im working
@@frekkledipped seems like a very good solution. Will have to give it a go next time I install one!
Great video and thank you. Any ideas on using the same idea for a pickup tube? I need to rap my diesel tank for a auxiliary heater.
I’m sure there are solutions for that but this for sure isn’t it.
Like the idea with the tape I used a washer! Regards Mick
I have a picture in my mind of someone vacuuming out a tank that's not quite dry at all. There are videos of people sucking up gas with a vacuum. It's not pretty when those gas vapors get to that vacuum motor. EXCELLENT video though. Thank You.
If I had to account for lack of common sense in my videos, they would all be four hours long!
Thanks, very detailed video and advice! I want to set up a return line for a carb set up. The link you provided states EFI 6AN. Can I use for a Carb setup? Thanks again! Cheers from Motown.
Sure can. Carb or EFI.
@@MuscleCarSolutions Thank you for such a speedy reply sir. Much appreciated. Blessings to you and the family.
@@robertclymer6948 no problem! Best of luck!
Modifying a gas cap to have a Schrader valve or air tool connection, or simply a rubber hose to the fuel line, a decent pressure regulator set for like 5 or ten psi will create just enough positive pressure to eject all the metal debris when making a hole in the tank. Not as much fun as a 9mm but you'd have two holes that way
Neat idea!
Wish they’d made this exact piece for the -8 guys as well
More professional than what I did. '67 Mustang, added a PVC "Threaded Barbed Elbow" to the fuel filler line,
Only thing that would make me afraid of that is what the ethanol will do to it. PVC doesn’t have any protection from that nasty stuff.
On my first EFI retrofit, a 77' Mustang II, I removed the filler neck and welded a return nipple to it. Worked perfectly and easy to to.
@@Ares-jx4ep I could see that working on some filler necks. Others not so much. Plus the welding aspect is outside of most folks skill levels. Either way, I’d be interested in seeing a 77 foot Mustang II! 🤣
GREAT VIDEO! I was wondering if you were going to cut yerself on that sheet metal edge.
What about the old thick plastic tanks would it crimp enough to seal before it pulls thru,??? Great video
Don’t think so. It’s a rivnut. I’d imagine it would pull through the plastic before it would tighten down and seal. You could do a bulkhead fitting and get a good result I’d think.
I'm crazy about rare-earth magnets. I'm thinking of using the grease but also stick a couple magnets to the step bit also to grab those metal shards. I stick those powerful magnets to my oil filters as well. I also stick them to various grounded bolt-heads in my engine compartment to stick voltmeter connectors to or on the cowl or fender of a car I'm working on to hold tools or paperwork. They're handy little guys. That's why I'm crazy about rare-earth magnets.
GREAT video, thanks.
Glad you liked it!
should this be installed far from the fuel pickup so as not disrupt the fuel source?
No. Most factory stuff and the aftermarket returns the fuel right next to the outlet/pickup point.
yes, just in case the return fuel is heated and gets picked up before it can cool
Will a step drill cause any kind of sparks ? Don't really wanna blow up
Anything that’s metal on metal has the chance of creating spark. Take every precaution to prevent it. Popular method is to completely fill the tank with water then do your drilling/cutting/welding.
Do they make one of these for the plastic tank in like an 06 silverado?
No. Just use a bulkhead fitting.
Through the pump housing or straight into the tank with a hose inside going to the bottom so no air in fuel return to the tank?
I have a 72 c10. How do you feel about using the overflow/vapor line as a point for return? The line is just hanging at the bottom of the passanger side and plugged seems useless
It’s a great question! I have a 71 with the emissions tank and need to see what that space looks like and if the return will interfere with the filler neck. Replacing the fuel tank sometime this summer. Have though of trying it there. We’ll see!
Thanks for the tips
Step bits are terrible for dropping chips, The grease trick works far better with a reg bit because the spiral taper naturally pulls material away from the workpiece.
I use a dry tank, obviously and turn it upside down and use grease the few I've used. Then take a pick and paper towel and pull it around. Worked so far. It's some aggravation
very helpful, thank you. Geek and Son
Will this leak if it was towards the bottom of fuel tank
Yes. It’s not meant to be anything more than a return line. It will leak if placed below the fuel line.
Nice detailed video,
Thanks! Glad it was useful!
thank you
Installed one and the seal ripped and is now leaking. What’s the best way to remove this fitting?
is this only good for metal tank? Can it be used in fiberglass tank?
Maybe. I’m not sure if you’d pull through the fiberglass while trying to compress the body. Only one way to find out! Let me know how it goes. lol
Quick question, if I swap my original single line sending unit on my 69 chevelle for a gm unit that has a return line, can I just run a return line from the regulator?
Maybe. If it’s a vent line though you might run into issues.
@@MuscleCarSolutions no the sending unit would have a second line for a return
Would this be a good fit for the Holley Sniper Return line?
Sure would.
Thank you!
@@MrRewdtv no problem! Best of luck.
Or remove tank and drill upside down saw that done before metal falls on the ground and not inside the tank
It’s a possibility but it still pushes material up into the tank.
Can I do this on a oil pan tap?
For like a turbo drain? Yes and no. Yes you could, no it wouldn’t be a big enough size. -10 at a minimum. -12 would be better. You don’t want a choke point there and have oil back into the turbo.
for a return line, why the bottom of the tank? not the top?
Great thanx,,
Magnetize the bit and use just a smear of grease! You will be surprised how little if any filings are lost in the tank!
Is it safe to drill a hole in the tank that isn't fully empty?
Absolutely not.
Where can i buy this?
Link is in the description.
From what I understand there should be a tube that extends to the bottom of the tank to prevent fuel aeration.
It’s not returning gallons per minute. It’s a slow trickle of fuel and you’d get more chaos from making turns in the vehicle Ike than what a return line in the top of the tank would introduce. No worry.
Now how do I keep it from blowing up when I drill into it 🤔😅
Tanks Inc. told me that the return line needs to exit the fuel at a low point of the tank. It must be submerged in fuel which is why is't usually incorporated within the sending unit. Thoughts$
That doesn’t make any sense. They have their return right in the fuel pump hat which is in the top of the tank. It’s not mounted low at all.
So how the hell do you install a drop tube to that?
Magnets?
If it's an older car with no return line, I could actually see trying to port some free space on base plate of the sending unit. Cause then you could take that out and not get any metal shavings in the tank.
Not enough room on the sending unit for it. At least I don’t recall seeing one that had enough room to put one. The footprint of fairly large for the return port. Unless you can find one with a stainless plate that you could tig a line to.
its probably a good idea to place the return as far away from pickup in case the return fuel is heated and gets picked up before it has time to cool
will adding a return line to a carburetor that runs on about 7 pounds of pressure, reduce the pressure to the carburetor too much -- assume using a stock mechanical fuel pump -- im thinking the fuel is constantly running back to the tank and will starve the motor
What is your pressure regulator set at? What is the GPH of the punk you’re using? What carb are you pushing 7psi to?
@@MuscleCarSolutions ok-- i have a 66 ford truck 352-- 2 brl-- it has serious vapor lock issues- solution on u tune --add a return line- the filter i got has a 1/4 return line to the tank-- not installed yet- duralast FF3420DL-- i get 9MPG-- camper on back-- uses a ton of gas at 60mph-- a friend said the return line which is as i understand it-- is wide open will cause low carb pressure on highway - no pressure regulator-- tests with filters that dont have a return line-- dont address the issue- also its a mechanical pump so might not have the thru put of an electrical pump-
i could install it and test it but id like to get infromt of the problem-- really appreciate your input
-
When you say vapor lock, what do you mean? It’s having issues while running or after you drive it and shut it off it’s hard to start? The fuel economy side is difficult. You’re not going to find big improvements in the engine. That’s why overdrive transmissions now have 8 and 10 gears. It’s keeps the operating rpm low. The return line has nothing to do with what psi the carb sees. Only potential volume. If it’s a factory pump it’s probably adequate if it’s operating as it should.
@@MuscleCarSolutions vapor lock-- running at 60 slow down to 10mph its 110degrees outside-- gas boils- im stuck-- hard to start also if i stop sometimes when very hot-- same reason gas boils- i think the idea behind the filter with the return line is 2 fold- 1-- vapor is routed back to the tank 2- since there is constant gas flow the gas stays cooler- many people on u tube say this works- it sounds like it should- im stuck with 9mpg-- i only bring it up to show that the motor requires a lot of gas-- so we are getting to the issue: you said : The return line has nothing to do with what psi the carb sees. Only potential volume. -- i think thats true only if the pump can pump enough gas to run the motor as well as create a constant flow of gas back to the tank-- i think this type of filter has a constant opening so liquid gas goes to the tank the same as unwanted vapor- if you blow thru it air goes right out the return--
so to be absurd but make a point-- if the pump was outputted to an open ended garden hose it would produce zero pressure--
maybe you answered the issue by saying you think the factory pump should accommodate both the motor as well as the return-- i guess the only way i know is to run this thing at 60mpg with the return hooked up and see if the motor starves for gas-- appreciate your input--
@@quickfix9815 the engine is the heat source. The carburetor is negatively affected by that heat and the fuel (assuming it’s got some ethanol in it) is paying the price. I think your best bet is to start with blocking the heat source. You mentioned it’s a 2 bbl carb? Some digging might find you a company that makes a phenolic spacer. I’ve seen universal wood laminate spacers that you cut out to match your carb/intake. Don’t know. You’ve got some research to do. Either way, it’s a common problem due to bad fuel. That’s where I’d start.
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT EXCELLENT. I would add a little WD40 between the bolt and the rivnut to reduce the risk of it galling against the aluminum.
Not a bad idea. I’ve done about a dozen of these so far and no issues yet.
@@MuscleCarSolutions Agreed. Since this one has the wrench flats to keep it from spinning probably not needed. Trying to do the cheaper ones with a bolt instead of using the tool, I've had them spin on me. I has another question for you. . .have you ever done any fuel systems with hard line and specifically how did you transition from the hard line to the AN fittings/hose. Just looking for tips for an EFI system I am about to do. I don't really want to run hose all the way.
I almost always run line the entire way. Very rarely do I use hard line. If you want to retain it, you can with a AN fuel line adapter. Similar to this one: amzn.to/2YuZuT2
Do you think this would work into a plastic tank?
Don’t see why not. If it’s used as a return line.
Great vid thanks for your advice, oh and did you swipe your wife’s wrench from her tool box?😁
think the grease was meant to absorb heat to preserve your bits life.....
Too thick for that use. If you read any articles on drilling into a blind cavity, one or the common tips is to use grease to catch the material that’s cut so it doesn’t fall into that area. It’s just not as effective as people think.
Can't you just install it on the sending unit plate?
If you want erratic readings on the gas gauge, yes.
@@MuscleCarSolutions even if you bend a slight goose neck away from the float?
@@dank1349 I guess if it’s worth your time to try it? Only saw it done once with a friends project and out it came because the gas gauge looked like a tach bouncing off the rev limiter.
@@MuscleCarSolutions i thought about taking 3/8 steel tubing bending an angle on it and tigging it in. Obviously to locate it as far away from the sending unit the better but the shavings sounds like a problem and I have a S.S. tank so a magnet is going to work well fishing them out.
@@dank1349 there’s always that to consider too! Never an easy solution for problems. If you can TIG, then maybe just punch a hole, tig it back shit with the pipe size you want and locate it anywhere?
Let me tell you what I would do, I would pressurize the tank before drilling and keep it hooked to a compressor so the shavings are blown out as you drill. ;)
How install a vent in a piece of sheet metal! Why didn't you actually show it on your tank? Hmmm.
Forget the drilling (metal chips and possible sparks). Just Tee-off the Evap return fitting, or remove the sending unit and add a fitting to that!
Because this was the second video I shot. The first video was on an actual tank and an endless amount of Karen’s complained they couldn’t see in the tank. Can’t seem to win with you folks. 😂
If it's a return line doesn't it go on the top of the tank-
grease is a bad idea now try to get them filings out of the tank , lol