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Please make a video on Karen Smith too. I think unlike Gretchen, who was in the clique for power, Karen was there because she believed that no one will accept her or be friends with her. Because of all the promiscuity rumours (Which I also believe was spread by Regina herself) and unlike Gretchen, Karen shared a _better_ relationship with Regina (Who sure ridicule her but isn't downright abusive with her like Gretchen)
"Why should Caesar just get to stomp around like a giant while the rest of us try not to get smushed under his big feet? Brutus is just as cute as Caesar, right? Brutus is just as smart as Caesar, people totally like Brutus just as much as they like Caesar, and when did it become okay for one person to be the boss of everybody because that's not what Rome is about! We should totally just STAB CAESAR!”
If you knew how mean she really is... you'd know that I'm not allowed to wear hoop earrings, right? Yeah, Regina said that hoop earrings were HER thing and that I wasn't allowed to wear them anymore. And for Hanukah, my parents got me a pair of really expensive golden tubes and I had to pretend that I didn't even like them! It was so sad! Oh, and she cheats on Aaron. Mhhmmm, yeah. Every afternoon, he thinks that she's doing SAT prep, but she's really hooking up with Shane Omen in the projection room above the auditorium! I never told anybody that, because... I AM SUCH A GOOD FRIEND! *sobs*
I was a “Gretchen” when I was younger and it definitely look back at that time and wonder why I put up with so much abuse from my “friends” in order to remain part of a clique. This video helps explain a lot of that perfectly!
Yes, just goes to show how insanely clever this movie is, as it knows how teenage girls operate, and how they crave acceptance, and suffer from anxiety. 💖
This. Honestly the girl I was friend with at the start of school was a totally manipulative bitch, except she wasn’t a queen bee so I didn’t suffer much social fallout from cutting ties with her, that is until she told the actual queen bee type girl that I was a racist.
i did the same tbh, i used to hang out with two girls and would just out up with their shit, not becuz they're popular, it's because they're the only ''friends'' i know and i don't want to be abandoned
SketchbookHR ikr! It's sad because I had a friend like that who cared about being "popular" and cool so much (it was in community college too, not high school) that she hung around with a friend group that she didn't fit in with. She was my roommate and she would vent to me about drama and how badly they treated her, and I always tried to give her advice and tell her to forget them because there are more people at the school, and to make friends with people who were nicer to her, but she stayed with that group and she was never herself with them. At the end of the year, she even became like them. She would tell me hurtful things, talk badly about other people's appearances, tell lies to start drama, and she became so addicted to partying that she stopped caring about her grades. I tried to help her, but she never took my advice. It didn't help that she would say mean things to me, that her "friends" said to her. She's out of my life now because she became so toxic. The way they described Gretchen in this video reminded me of her so much.
hopia hon Once my phone went off during an important test. I blamed it on the kid next to me and he got his phone taken and detention. I got off by pretending to not have my phone that day.
The thing that Mean Girls gets so right about high school is that every clique has a queen bee, and people tend to be more mean to their friends than they are to even the outcasts.
I'm an adult and there are still queen bees. Even moreso because once you leave school your friendships span a greater age range so queen bees have younger and prettier women to compete with. I find as an adult every friendship group has a queen bee and a queen. The queen is the one people actually like but doesn't force the issue. The queen bee is the Regina George who pretends she is the queen and everyone except the queen feels they must go along with it. As this is no longer high school the queen is not so subject to coercion so the queen bee has to share her platform.
@jeremyud That’s actually true. It’s one thing when the mean girl is mean to people they hardly know or associate with, it’s easy to brush it off . But when you become friends with the mean girl and they betray you, that’s hurts even more.
I always felt sorry for Gretchen. She always struck me as a sweet, if insecure girl, who desperately wants to be liked, and doesn't know how to function without a leader. Regina, being as savvy as she is, definitely sussed out this mentality, and recruited Gretchen to join her clique, knowing that Gretchen wouldn't deny her anything. 😞 Even though it's played for laughs, it's almost bittersweet when Gretchen joins the Cool Asians at the end, as she desperately needs SOMEONE to tell her what to do. 🤔😢
I see her as the banker that hasn't had the bravery or the actual motivation to use the info she had on Regina.. her place in the mean girls was good enough for where she comfortable but not bad enough for her to have a need to eliminating Regina and in the end ended up being comfortable why she ended up joining the cool asains she got to used to being told what to do... it quite sad
The mean girls song " What';s wrong with me" from the musical seems to suggest Gretchen used to be more confident but Regina slowly chipped away at her self confidence. I don't know if it applies to the movie cannon but its still an interesting take.
Trina Q yeah it's really sad that she doesn't have agency and needs to have someone tell her what to do. I always thought she and Karan should've stayed friends at the end. It's sad because I had a friend like that who cared about being "popular" and cool so much (it was in community college too, not high school) that she hung around with a friend group that she didn't fit in with. She was my roommate and she would vent to me about drama and how badly they treated her, and I always tried to give her advice and tell her to forget them because there are more people at the school, and to make friends with people who were nicer to her, but she stayed with that group and she was never herself with them. At the end of the year, she even became like them. She would tell me hurtful things, talk badly about other people's appearances, tell lies to start drama, and she became so addicted to partying that she stopped caring about her grades. I tried to help her, but she never took my advice. It didn't help that she would say mean things to me, that her "friends" said to her. She's out of my life now because she became so toxic.
@ezmetc1833 Gretchen was never really mean to anyone really. Neither was Karen. In fact, they were both victims of Regina’s bullying and just used and ordered them around for her own benefits.
Lemme just drop this quote Gretchen said in the musical version: “Sometimes I feel like an iPhone without a case. Like, I know I’m worth a lot, and I have a lot of good functions, but at any time I could just shatter.” :’)
I always found it interesting that Cady had the best looks when she was first starting to hang with them but as she becomes plastic her outfits and hair get worse. I got the sense they were dressing her for a while and when she started dressing herself she wasn't really as knowledgeable about fashion. She looked awful at her party.
I just realized that the "Illusion of intimacy" that Regina uses to keep Gretchen close to her, is very similar to how some youtubers refer to their fans "My sisters/family" as example. They make their audience believe that they're really close even tho none of them are from the youtuber close group of friends, yet the viewer feels the need to defend them in case of criticism.
Yes, youtubers are, just like other stars and politicians, like Regina G.They just want you to watch them/vote for them, they actually don't care about anyone but themselves.
Gretchens also never have their own style or interests or own set of morals. My ex best friend was a follower. She followed me a lot in high school. When she left for college, she found different people to follow, and became really self critical about appearances and money and status, she stopped being interested in math and art and music. It took me awhile to realize “old her” wasn’t her, but her just trying to follow the people around her.
Jessica Victoria Carrillo Whats interesting is, from an outsiders perspective, me and my new friends probably seem more conformist. She would ask me how my sorority got so many attractive recruits, because that’s something they were struggling with. That question made me and my friends really uncomfortable. We didn’t choose our sorority or the girls we want based on looks- we based it on what the girls wanted out of a college experience and sorority experience. They also needed good grades and be in at least one more extracurricular, so we got a lot of driven people. She asked really weird questions like why would my optometrist friend decide to marry a school teacher, she should be looking for a husband who makes more than her. Uh , maybe because she loves him? One of my friends is Barbie pretty- tiny, bleach blonde hair, you get it. She was a late bloomer and is a huge dork, but before my old friend even met her, just had seen pictures of us together on IG, she asked me why I would be friends with such a basic girl. Um, maybe because we can talk about Pokémon and resident evil while we work out or go shopping? And she doesn’t need to get wasted or high before we do anything social? Glad I left that Gretchen behind.
in the social hierarchy, Gretchen actually hold more power than she realizes. Without the follower, there can be no leader. And the moment your secret police decides to change their allegiance, is the time you fall as a dictator
Because both those characters are dope. They know their social rules are bullshit, but they use what they have to maximum advantage. Not bad for teenage characters.
I love how Gretchen's introduction, getting hit in the head with a ball, immediately conveys that she's a sort of a victim and worthy of sympathy. Like, yes, she's accountable for upholding Regina's regime, but I don't remember Gretchen really being mean to anyone.
Likewise, I was a total Gretchen, complete with being overly anxious about everything, and wanting to be liked, which many can identify with, especially as teenagers. 🧡
It is nice to see that Gretchen was able to get a happy ending as seen in the Walmart commercial where she finds purpose in being a mom, plus the fact that her kids seem alright with her eldest not having the follower mentality and instead being a leader in her own right. Also, since her kids are Asian I like to believe that she married a guy from the Cool Asian group, showing that her joining this clique acted as a step in her development.
I wonder why Regina chose Karen into her Plastics clique. She's pretty, but not very observant or intelligent, so Karen's not really a threat to Regina's power over the school. I would really love to see an analysis essay on that
Hi, I think Regina chose Karen for the same reason she chose Caty - because she's pretty. It's easier to control the amount of attention Karen/Caty recieves andwhat they can each do with it when they're friends with her.Butbecause Karen isn't smart enough to be a threat to her power, Regina really doesn't pay her much mind.
We need the dumb girl follower next--Karen. I think she also has a beautiful ending realizing her unique talents and passion as weather reporter. Thats an interesting fact as the creative ones in the society. Well we just have a leader, robots and creatives.
I actually have a ex-friends just like Regina and Gretchen. People like Gretchen are HELL to be friends with. One minute you think you're forming a close bond with them, the next they turn on you just to defend their queen bee. With people like Regina, one minute you're forming a close bond, the next they correct/degrade you just to put themselves in a higher position than you. It's better to stay away from them all together and just wish the best for them. Deep down, I can tell they're insecure people and want to be liked by others. Sometimes with insecurities comes pettiness and competition, two things that ruins friendship. You've gotta cut ties with them and soon they will learn to do better. I saw this movie when I was a little kid but never thought I would meet them in real life.
“That’s so fetch!” “That’s just, like, the rules of feminism.” “Oh my God, Karen! You can’t just ask people why they’re white!” “He’s your cousin. No, sweetie.” “Maybe we should just all stab Caesar!” “But I’m always on your left.” Is it sad I know those quotes on the fly...
There were so many Gretchen's in the world that it's sad. I had a Gretchen for a roommate and she would always defend a girl who was very cruel and hateful to me, the roommate, and all her friends. She stayed friends with someone who was mean to her and made her miserable. There are way too many trend followers on social media these days. This video was so on point about people like that. It reminded me of that drama in college and it also reminded me of another friend who hung out with a group of friends she didn't really like or fit in with (she would vent to me about the drama and them bullying her) I tried to give her advice and told her to find friends that treat her better, but she stayed in their group. She ended up becoming like them. By the end of the year, she was lying to start drama between people, said hurtful things to me (things her "friends" said to her), and became addicted to drinking. I drink, but she did it so often that her grades slipped and she told me she didn't care. I tried to help her learn to care about her grades, I told her she should find a balance between partying and studying, but she didn't take my advice. It turned out that she told a lot of lies about me behind my back and started a lot of shit. She became very toxic. She's out of my life now. When this video described Gretchen as a follower it reminded me of her so much, now I understand why she stuck with those friends who were so mean to her and I understand why she became like them. She was under bad influence, but ultimately, it was her choice. For anyone out there who has low self esteem and wants to have friends who are popular or who wants help making decisions, you are amazing the way you are and you don't need to become like somebody else. We all should have agency and be our own person. You are capable, just give yourself a chance. Don't stick with people who make you miserable because you're afraid you won't find other friends.
Thank you for sharing your story. What disgusts me the most is that most people out there literally idolize toxic people like the ones you talked about, and this just shows how powerful and manipulative they are.
At 12:13. I love how Gretchen is so desperate to be a follower that she forces herself to learn fluent Vietnamese to serve a new queen bee. Now that is world-class craven subservience! :D
Although ironically, some comments pointed out that she has learned Mandarin or something close to that language instead of Vietnamese as the others Vietnamese girls have no idea what Gretchen is trying to say.
@@KL-ki8db I know Mandarin. That is not Mandarin. That definitely sounds like Vietnamese. But Cantonese sounds an awful lot like Vietnamese to me, so maybe it's Cantonese? I do remember that the Vietnamese girls respond to her like she's disclosing some juicy gossip in the scene at 12:13. So maybe it's just very garbled Vietnamese by the actress? It's a tough language to pick up, what with the tones and everything. I can't imagine the actress had an easy time with this scene. LOL.
Yeah, but in general trying to emerse in another culture and learning a language it's a positive thing. I don't think it's something bad, maybe she finally found the clique that will influence her to do something good & bring some change for the better in her life.
Scrolling through the comments, I was kinda hoping to see a reference to the Gretchen in Mean Girls the Musical - especially the last verses of her song - "What's wrong with me? What can I do? What's wrong with me? COULD IT BE YOU...?? -- ...It's probably me," - that are sung in an increasingly desperate tone. I think it really serves to highlight the lack of self assurance that leads Gretchen to seem herself as nothing more than a follower, even if she knows - in the song, at least - that her relationship with Regina is fundamentally unhealthy for her. But Gretchen can't see herself doing anything more than that, and justifies that by convincing herself that anything bad in her dynamics with Regina is her own fault. Well, at least until the Caesar breakdown, I guess (which is sadly not in the musical). I haven't watched The Devil Wears Prada in a while, but I can totally see future Gretchen becoming an Emily type, willing to go through a horribly unhealthy pattern to earn the acceptance of someone that never will grant it - because what Miranda values in Anne Hathaway's character is precisely her self-assurance - and worse, if a Gretchen type never grows out of the perception that what happens to her is on herself to blame. It is also an open door to any kind of abusive relationship. Anyway, this comment turned out to be way more pessimistic than I expected, but I just wanted to add this little something from the musical's characterization.
I always found the rigid social hierarchies in teen movies weird as they bore no relation to my own experience of school, so it's even stranger to learn that it was based on actual research. Though I'm in the UK so maybe it's just different over here.
Well, I mostly saw this social hierarchy mostly in middle school. In highschool, at least now. Most people have their own groups but there is usually a king/queen, the second in command, and the loyal follower. However it can change pretty easily if someone with the same status joins. I see this is college, clubs, and high school.
@@scp--297 it also depends largely where you come from and the people around you. Inner city school hierarchies were vastly different from the suburban/ rural school hierarchies. Going to school with a mostly immigrants/first generation students are not going to be super focused on mean girl power structures as rural 7th generation american kids.
I'm brazilian and in my school experience, there was some drama but surely didn't looked like any of it. I did studied in a small school though and did noticed that for my younger siblings, their school experience was very different and much closer, despite not being as dramatic, as the ones in these films. So I think it depends on the school, local culture and country.
I think it's just less obvious than in movies and each countries have a different criteria for their hierarchy. Like most asian countries would consider the most intelligent students to be on the top, since school sometimes arrange classes by grades and test scores. It could also be along the lines of student body government, or who are good at dancing or sports. It depends on what the school/students value or idolize.
Same, I'm also from the UK and the most 'popular' girls from my school were just genuine and nice to everyone. I remember once I really hurt my leg in PE and they carried to me to the nurse because I couldn't walk.
We need a breakdown of “the quirky girl” or “the manic pixie dream girl “ (margo roth spigelmen,summer,jess,clementine) I know a lot of these characters are not mpdg rather they are the breakdown of that cliche but I’m still mentioning their names because I think they might be helpful source for the video..feel free to drop more suggestions
@@aishatarver193 I know right? The whole point of Summer's character is that Tom sees her as a manic pixie dream girl but in reality she's the exact opposite
Poor Gretchen. She actually WAS a good Friend. She Just Pushed herself to impress a certain someone, and they thought it was 👌 to treat gretchen like crap, continuously.
I really like the musical's take on Gretchen's character. Her one solo song, "What's Wrong with Me?", outlines how she herself is aware that she'd only bring future unhappiness for herself, and yet she can't make herself let go of this status. The song's reprise is sung by Regina's mother, who, by acting like a "cool mom", is still subservient to the hierarchy that she most probably served under back in her own highschool years. This really connects the two and gives a tangible example of what Gretchen might become once she grows up.
Anyone notice that Gretchen's family is German Jewish? I wonder if Gretchen's desire for social capital and to be indispensable to the Queen Bee are connected to what Gretchen's family went through. Supporting evidence is Gretchen's name Gretchen Wieners (a German name) and the fact that Gretchen received the silver hoop earrings that Regina said she wasn't allowed to wear for Chanukah.
I always found it pretty ironic that Gretchen was so subservient to Regina for most of the film (until she was pushed too far), as she seemed to me to be the obvious single largest threat to Regina's own position... If only she'd wanted to be. She's not at all lacking in the looks department (a poll I conducted years ago, though hardly scientific, had her ranked as the most attractive member of the plastics), she's presumably the richest by far, and most crucially, she knows everybody's business... her hair is full of secrets, lol. If anyone had the power to "totally just stab ceaser", it was Gretchen, and she probably would've had no trouble taking that position in the aftermath had she wanted. I think I pitied her the most because, while she absolutely had that potential, she seemingly never realized it, or saw it in herself. She had everything she needed to be Queen Bee... except the self confidence and the ruthless streak.
As someone who is very similar to Gretchen: the lack of self confidence is very evident from the "Reginas" of the world. That's why people like Regina love us because they know that we won't go astray. And they work very hard to maintain the relationship with abuse- one day act very sweet and loving, the next day putting us down. It's the reason people don't leave abusive romantic relationships for years, sometimes even never.
I used to be a Gretchen and followed along with everything my group did just so I could remain close and popular alongside them, I was in middle school and I realise how stupid that was now, I mean, I have severe trust issues because of how badly I was backstabbed and treated now so I prefer to keep to myself and have a few close but loyal friends. Even though I'm no longer stuck in a toxic friendship, I still find myself looking for attention and validation though from my new friends who didn't know me when I was in my old group and honestly i can still see where all my insecurities came from when I was just discounted as being a 'dumb blonde' even though now I get straight A's and always study. It's the worst friendship to be in honestly.
Gretchen's character always interested me whenever I watch Mean Girls. Gretchen was that person who had a best friend who would constantly mistreat them, but didn't want to end the friendship because they were friends for so long. For a long time, I thought if I stopped being friends with one of my closest friends, who I had known since elementary school, I wouldn't have anyone to hang out with.
What Gretchen gets out of her followership is that she gets to be the person pulling the strings behind the scenes. She controls the contents of the Burn Book that Regina uses to make the girls go wild. She gets her place in the clique and the Who You Know status. She takes Regina´s abuse because she knows Regina depends on her for everything. She is like the spoiled celebrity´s agent.
I think I’m a Gretchen. My Regina isn’t a bad person and I’m still friends with her. The qualities describing Gretchen, I can relate to them, minus the abuse. I would get really mad if I sensed that she liked somebody else more than me. I know that’s a bad thing and I’m working on it. I also know secrets that most of her friends don’t know. I had to move schools this year and it was really hard. I miss her.
Gretchen literally had so much information on regina that she could've used it against her. However, Gretchen choose not to is that she was comfortable in her place in the clique with regina and Karen. In my opinion, if anyone had the actual power to overthrow regina it would've been Gretchen.
One thing I always found ridiculous about teen movies is the court of girls who's only purpose in life seems to be standing behind an important character with a menacing expression..
I used to be a Gretchen in elementary school and it was tiring and the most worst part of growing up in elementary till the 6th grade. She left and the girl that I thought hated me grew to be good friends and everyone in the class got along and was happy. I knew then to take control of my own life and stop worrying about her's or other's.
In the movie, you can tell Gretchen is actually happy that Katie was slowly taking over Regina’s spot because Katie (while she began to slowly become just as narcissistic and power hungry) wasn’t as toxic and nasty as Regina was to Gretchen.
I used to watch this show called Cold Case and they had an episode where this cheerleader Sam was forced to drink a spiked drink by the Head Cheerleader and her poise. Sam's best friend Riley was there during the incident, but she allowed her best friend to die because if she called an ambulance, Sam was gonna expose everything the head cheerleader had done in school, but because Riley so desperately wanted to stay apart of the cheer squad and "the structure" she couldn't let that happen. So she layed there in the middle of the football field and let her best-friend overdose on the drink. Riley wasn't chargred with murder because she didn't poor the drink, instead head cheerleader was arrested. Never the less it was said that Riley chose being apart of a Cheerleading squad with bitches who didn't give a f*ck about her, instead of her best friend of 12 years. 😞
Ivania macivan-davies yeah i really felt bad for Riley. Cause she just so despreatley wanted to remin apart of the structure that cause she soo much hell. Unforunatley her best friend had to be murdered in order for that to become a reality! 😏 Highschool’s a bitch man!
Can you give a take on why people like the kardashians and bhad bhabie are popular? Basically people who are porpular for no reason that anyone can figure out but they keep getting attention? Thanks
I never realized this before, but Gretchen is representative of every person with a job in a fiercely competitive industry with an abusive boss or every person who won’t or can’t leave a hot or wealthy abusive boyfriend or spouse.
Fun fact: In the original script Gretchen wasn’t supposed to be pretty. She was only in the Plastics because of her wealth. That changed when Lacey Chabert was cast, but they left the line in as an example of Regina’s vindictiveness.
I was in a toxic friendship a few months back. I realized i was becoming a follower just to stay in that group. The queen bee of that group was very skilled and she had the power to manipulate anyone and everyone as she liked. I fought with her and soon enough i was kicked out of that group. A wise man later told me that she was a controller... I should be happy that I was not one of those dumb people who followed her. Yah. That boosted my confidence. I am glad to know I am a rebel.. with a big personality. And haha, the entire group still looks out for me even though i am not officially there. She is pissed now because even after its been six months, they still taunt her for ruining their friendship with me. Karma...
Looks like it worked out so well for you! I wish I stood up to her. To an extent I did but she had everyone wrapped around her finger 😒 and I was scared of being lonely
I was such a follower type . Because even if the “friends” were mean at lest sometimes they would treat you well and seemed to want you around . Luckily I out grew it
It's interesting to take note of what Gretchen wore in the end. I imagine she wore her hair curled before because Regina told her to. But with the new group, they all have straight hair with center parts. Throughout the movie, she's usually seen wearing light-colored, but she's now wearing a dark top. And she's wearing her hoop earrings. I wonder if her new Queen Bee gave her more liberty to wear what she wanted or if she's just adopted a new uniform to help her better fit in with her new group.
For those commenters on here who feel like they're Gretchens in their lives--you need to see the patterns of thought that dictate what you do in inter-personal relationships and stop yourself from going into those relationships. Spot these patterns and act on them. Look for people who treat you like an equal--these people allow you to voice your opinions and emotions, they give you space for your preferences (a big clue: they agree to do what you want most of the time), and they give you genuine help when you need it (especially an ear and a shoulder to lean on). If anyone in your circle of friends does not do this, cut them out quickly. Those people are bound to find a side-kick with low self-esteem. But this side-kick is not going to be you.
I’m auditioning for Gretchen’s role in a couple months, and I’ve been watching videos like this for the certain roles before I audition and it helps, but none like this video. I totally understand what she’s going through, and I resemble her like no other. This video has helped exponentially. Thank you!
and Notice to be in these cliques... beauty is the first thing you have to have. Even in HS alot of the pretty girls were friends. However, watching this video I realize it wasn't because they genuinely liked each other, it was because they shared the same status of being a pretty girl. Kind of like how you see fat women clique up.
Well, teens are vulnerable with the STATUS aspect. And almost everyone are like Gretchen but when they became Regina, they cant handle it. They also look for Validation, thats it.
I think people “like” people like Karen because they aren’t a threat. Sure, she is pretty and sweet but she doesn’t have the bite that makes her a threat to anyone. Karen’s like a baby, so it’s easy to be nice to her as long as you can be patient enough with her less-than-bright mind. Gretchen actually kinda liked Karen because of that baby-like “innocence,” Regina doesn’t think much of her because she knows Karen is too stupid and simple to plot anything against her, Cady is pretty neutral about Karen because of Karen wasn’t ever mean to anyone. On the flip side, Regina is always trying to keep Gretchen on a leash because she actually has information that she can use again Regina; Regina tries to manipulate Cady into submission because Cady is the one with the looks and brains to possibly dismantle her, and it actually happens for a while.
I love these Mean Girls analysis videos. Sure, it’s a funny and ridiculous comedy, but it’s incredibly well-written and a lot of thought was put into the characters. It’s what makes this movie stand out from most teen drama/comedies.
I used to be a follower when I was younger and I was miserable. Constantly being belittled by friends made my self-confidence plummet yet I would never really stand up for myself until later on . I rationalized that it's better to have friends than none at all. It was wrong though, there was a lot toxicity due to insecurities. Admittedly I started to buy into it and became used to the treatment, thinking that was how most friendship dynamics were supposed to be. I only improved my mental health once I started to stand up for myself.
i hated how Gretchen was considered the non-attractive plastic, just because unike her friends her hair is dark and curly (she literally complained about her hair). i think one of the reasons why she considered Regina to be superior is because no matter how stunning she is, she was far away from the ideal american beauty standard which is having straight light hair and blue eyes, (if you look closely you'll see that she's the only one who was never called pretty) . She was so insecure about her attractiveness that she was still crushing on a guy who was flirting with other girls in front of her.
yeah exactly and I always thought gretchen was actually prettier than regina and that regina was jealous of her darker features and her curly hair and even jealous of her personality because gretchen was known to be social, funny and even sympathetic towards people. I think this makes a lot of sense as to why regina was meaner to gretchen than she was to karen cause even though karen had a gorgeous face, she didn’t really have a personality that regina could be jealous of cause she was just the dumb girl. Gretchen was pretty and had personality and it was obvious regina resented her for it. Knowing that gretchen was a threat but also knowing how insecure she was, regina took advantage of that and made her one of her little followers so she can control her and keep her in check.
Gretchen is what we call a “door knob”. They usually go hand-in-hand with a “dominant” (Regina). The Dominant chooses which way the door knob turns - it has no will of its own, it yields entirely to the turner.
They want power and status but they know they can't get it by themselves so they form a symbiotic relationship with the popular one. Even if the popular one is kind and a gentle person. The sidekick will be mean because they want to narrow the access channel to the game circle they imagine is around the popular one.
You see this in As Told By Ginger. The popular girl Courtney is actually relatively nice, if a bit ignorant and stuck-up at times. But her sidekick Miranda is the actual mean girl whose sole purpose is to maintain the status and power that comes from being best friends with Courtney. When Courtney starts to befriend Ginger, a plain and dorky unpopular girl, that's when Miranda gets especially villainous and possessive.
A point that could be added that how obvious there roles are to everyone watching. While these followers believe they have status, it is never really true.
This reminds me of my country Philipoines. Duterte is Regina George, Gretchen is Bong Go and the rest of his senators. Lastly, the DDS Filipinos are all Karen Smiths.
Found this to be really realistic Gretchen has always been my fav because she was so relatable. My friendship group is similar to the plastics. There is the leader, who is mostly the leader because the rest of us are just too shy. Basically, she is the only one able to assert her dominance as a leader. Also, she is able to express her opinion bravely, which just makes you think she is right. And when she stands up for something you agree with, but never could, it makes her seem valuable. She isnt afraid to speak up for us so the group feels protected. She also speaks up against other remembers of the group. We have rules, punishments and meetings. It can suck to be a follower because you need to lie about your opinionbs or do bad things you otherwise shouldnt do. I suported the leader kicking another girl out the group till the very last second. I once expressed a strong opinion for the first time in the group, and leader talked about me to the other members behind my back. I pretend to agree with the leader when I dont in order for her to trust me more. I follow her for many reasons 1) Comfort- If I have any concerns, she will listen to them, and not spill them to anyone. I cant be salty towards her without being afraid she will leave me because we are close. We can talk about anything because she can be so evil that I have a place to talk about that stuff. Also if I bring up a concern of mine about anything (even other members of the group ) she will bring them up with confidence and sas. 2) Safety- I know that I am not at risk of being kicked out the group, or being talked about behind me back ( most of the time ) because I am so close to her. 3) Knowledge- I can understand exactly whats going on in the group, because she is the most secretive, I can understand my other friends easily, and I get her secrets and plans. I understand everything about everyone you could say. 4) Friendship- I am deadly afraid of having no friends, so if I am a follower, I have a close friend. Its easy. Not many people will except a follower other than means girls. Its how I can get a 100% secure friendship. 5) Respect- The other members of the group know how close I am with her, and know that I know alot so they have a bit of respect for me, but not fear. We still talk with no pressure or like we need to be careful, like we do with the leader,
I just love your take on this, I mightve been that "follower mindset" person in college and i just find myself back then very people-pleasing. I remember feeling superior than others and cant believe im more stupider back then 😂
I had a best friend who I was friends with since Highschool who treated me like I was her side kick and I don’t think she ever saw me as a friend. I couldn’t even open up to her. It was always about her and she would criticize me when I tried opening up to her. Even when I talked about my own problems she would act like I was being selfish and say everyone has problems. I got tired of it so I called her out on it and told her I don’t want to be her friend anymore.
I hope you learned from that lesson and moved on to healthier relationships, where friends treat you like an equal. I had the same thing happen to me, and I learned to watch out for those type of people. Now I'm waaaay happier with the friends I have. :D
Video suggestions on characters: - The Dumb Girl trope (Not sure if the blonde video covers most of this) - The Rises and Fall of Jan Levinson (I find her to be a very fascinating character, shes a independent and professional woman but sadly her self destructiveness ruins her) - The Dumb Guys (like Joey Tribianni, Luke Dunphy etc) - Why Do We Hate Main Characters Today (i realised we have a certain trend where we started to notice the flaws of our loved main characters such as Pam Beesley, Tori of Victorious, Rachel Greene,)
That 1/2 second clip you used from Buffy the Vampire Slayer desperately made me want a Take video on that show and characters -- so much to dig into that seems right up your guys' alley.
These high school girl dynamics are so unrelatable, at least in Europe. In my HS class everyone had like 1-3 friends they stood around with on recess and barely remembered the name of anyone else. We were too tired and our backs were too sore for some petty hierarchy lmao
Honestly, it's the same here in America too, at least at my old high school. Sure there were people who I guess were more "popular" than others at my school, but most people didn't care that much. And most of the popular kids were as bossy or mean as Regina. They just did their own thing, and we did ours. And I guess we did have certain "groups" who would hang out together, but they're not as rigid or strict as they are in the movies. You could be a theater kid and also be in sports, while hanging out with the popular kids and obsessing over anime like the weebs did. No one cared that much. It's called an exaggeration man. Lol I still love this movie though because there's a slight truth to it, and it's hilarious.
I wish that was true when I was in high school, but honestly, it was just this toxic power dynamic. We had the popular ones and their followers, the sporty ones and some outsiders (including me). My school time was bullying hell and I hated every second of it.
I live in Scotland. My hugh school was just like this one, and there was a group of “popular” girls, who were actually dubbed “the plastics”. 😂 they really were very akin to Mean Girls. I’m pretty sure they knew about the nickname too but they seemed to actually relish it. It was very cliquey. Thought that would end at hugh school but sadly, my uni was exactly the same with that social hierarchy. It makes me think of that song “high school never ends”.
is this why I always felt like gretchen was the most relatable out of all? I’m in a trio, and I’m definitely not the dictator or the pretty face. I do know a lot of gossip about everyone and everytime someone talks about my friends I tell them. And I do everything I can to make them happy but they are constantly mean to me. I think I just had an epiphany 😭
I wonder about Euphoria and how it can relate to this. Honestly I felt I was this for dome friendships even as an adult and I realized how I was numbing my intelligence and sense of beauty make those friends feel less intimidated and how I settled for their treatment because I was afraid of being lonely. It doesn't take much for a Gretchen to turn into a Janis.
I think Regina mainly kept Gretchen around because she could count on the fact that no matter if she wanted to, Gretchen could never over throw Regina as she is MEANT to serve/ be a follower as opposed to a queen bee. Unlike Cady and Janice who are both the mean girls in different ways, Gretchen is desperate to be liked and seeks approval because of her insecurities rather than be the power figure where as Karen doesn’t care about any of it and just happens to be a pretty, rich girl but isn’t really bothered about what other people think of her or being Regina’s favourite which is why, at the end, Karen does NOT join a new cliche but Gretchen DOES!
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The Take Please cover Anne With An E
Please make a video on Karen as the "Dumb Blonde", or Damian as the "Gay Best Friend". ❤️😍
Girl Next Door Trope please 😊 Or Cady Heron!!
Please make a video on Karen Smith too. I think unlike Gretchen, who was in the clique for power, Karen was there because she believed that no one will accept her or be friends with her. Because of all the promiscuity rumours (Which I also believe was spread by Regina herself) and unlike Gretchen, Karen shared a _better_ relationship with Regina (Who sure ridicule her but isn't downright abusive with her like Gretchen)
I have been asking so many times but I’ll do it again a video on Marshall and Lily’s relationship from himym please.
We need a video about “the dumb girl” archetype (aka Karen)
Seconded, we need a video explaining Karen's Sweet but Dumb Blonde stereotype, and Damian's Gay Best Friend role. ❤️
I think they already did that, with Elle Woods from Legally Blonde as the primary example.
They already have- it’s the history of dumb blondes, centred around Legally Blonde
And then glen coco archetype.
I swear to god if there's another trope coming up from mean girls, I'm done.
Julia Brahy YES! Featuring Amber from House of Anubis since she seemed like the "dumb girl" at first.
"Why should Caesar just get to stomp around like a giant while the rest of us try not to get smushed under his big feet? Brutus is just as cute as Caesar, right? Brutus is just as smart as Caesar, people totally like Brutus just as much as they like Caesar, and when did it become okay for one person to be the boss of everybody because that's not what Rome is about! We should totally just STAB CAESAR!”
I love how everyone just stares at Gretchen, as they slowly register that she's completely lost her mind! 🤣
i live this scenee lololol
Gretchen Wieners had cracked
Honestly that rant is the best of Gretchen. "Fetch" is nothing compared to the Caesar monologue.
If you knew how mean she really is... you'd know that I'm not allowed to wear hoop earrings, right? Yeah, Regina said that hoop earrings were HER thing and that I wasn't allowed to wear them anymore. And for Hanukah, my parents got me a pair of really expensive golden tubes and I had to pretend that I didn't even like them! It was so sad!
Oh, and she cheats on Aaron. Mhhmmm, yeah. Every afternoon, he thinks that she's doing SAT prep, but she's really hooking up with Shane Omen in the projection room above the auditorium! I never told anybody that, because... I AM SUCH A GOOD FRIEND!
*sobs*
I was a “Gretchen” when I was younger and it definitely look back at that time and wonder why I put up with so much abuse from my “friends” in order to remain part of a clique. This video helps explain a lot of that perfectly!
Yes, just goes to show how insanely clever this movie is, as it knows how teenage girls operate, and how they crave acceptance, and suffer from anxiety. 💖
This. Honestly the girl I was friend with at the start of school was a totally manipulative bitch, except she wasn’t a queen bee so I didn’t suffer much social fallout from cutting ties with her, that is until she told the actual queen bee type girl that I was a racist.
I was the Karen of my group for a long time
i did the same tbh, i used to hang out with two girls and would just out up with their shit, not becuz they're popular, it's because they're the only ''friends'' i know and i don't want to be abandoned
SketchbookHR ikr! It's sad because I had a friend like that who cared about being "popular" and cool so much (it was in community college too, not high school) that she hung around with a friend group that she didn't fit in with. She was my roommate and she would vent to me about drama and how badly they treated her, and I always tried to give her advice and tell her to forget them because there are more people at the school, and to make friends with people who were nicer to her, but she stayed with that group and she was never herself with them. At the end of the year, she even became like them. She would tell me hurtful things, talk badly about other people's appearances, tell lies to start drama, and she became so addicted to partying that she stopped caring about her grades. I tried to help her, but she never took my advice. It didn't help that she would say mean things to me, that her "friends" said to her. She's out of my life now because she became so toxic. The way they described Gretchen in this video reminded me of her so much.
Put your secrets in the replies to make Gretchen’s hair bigger.
I’ll go first. Once I did a silent toot at my friends’ house in fifth grade and when they blamed it on the dog, I joined in.
hopia hon Once my phone went off during an important test. I blamed it on the kid next to me and he got his phone taken and detention. I got off by pretending to not have my phone that day.
Every time I tell my friends I love them I’m actually confessing my crush on them
I ate the last pizza that we were saving for the dinner, and loudly denied it when I was accused of scoffing it! 🤫🤭🍕
When I was 6 I took a photo in the car at night and I thought it was illegal and if I was caught I’d be arrested
Last time I was this early Regina could sit with us.
0 0 She has Hemorrhoids now right?
One time, she punched me in the face. It was AwEsOmE!"
@@kented.4522 eyyy
Now, she just can't sit ANYWHERE
>:( wow...
The thing that Mean Girls gets so right about high school is that every clique has a queen bee, and people tend to be more mean to their friends than they are to even the outcasts.
I'm an adult and there are still queen bees. Even moreso because once you leave school your friendships span a greater age range so queen bees have younger and prettier women to compete with. I find as an adult every friendship group has a queen bee and a queen. The queen is the one people actually like but doesn't force the issue. The queen bee is the Regina George who pretends she is the queen and everyone except the queen feels they must go along with it. As this is no longer high school the queen is not so subject to coercion so the queen bee has to share her platform.
@@MsJubjubbird your friends suck 😂
@jeremyud
That’s actually true. It’s one thing when the mean girl is mean to people they hardly know or associate with, it’s easy to brush it off . But when you become friends with the mean girl and they betray you, that’s hurts even more.
Yeah, a lot of times your bullies are your own "friends".
I always felt sorry for Gretchen. She always struck me as a sweet, if insecure girl, who desperately wants to be liked, and doesn't know how to function without a leader. Regina, being as savvy as she is, definitely sussed out this mentality, and recruited Gretchen to join her clique, knowing that Gretchen wouldn't deny her anything. 😞
Even though it's played for laughs, it's almost bittersweet when Gretchen joins the Cool Asians at the end, as she desperately needs SOMEONE to tell her what to do.
🤔😢
I see her as the banker that hasn't had the bravery or the actual motivation to use the info she had on Regina.. her place in the mean girls was good enough for where she comfortable but not bad enough for her to have a need to eliminating Regina and in the end ended up being comfortable why she ended up joining the cool asains she got to used to being told what to do... it quite sad
The mean girls song " What';s wrong with me" from the musical seems to suggest Gretchen used to be more confident but Regina slowly chipped away at her self confidence. I don't know if it applies to the movie cannon but its still an interesting take.
Trina Q yeah it's really sad that she doesn't have agency and needs to have someone tell her what to do. I always thought she and Karan should've stayed friends at the end. It's sad because I had a friend like that who cared about being "popular" and cool so much (it was in community college too, not high school) that she hung around with a friend group that she didn't fit in with. She was my roommate and she would vent to me about drama and how badly they treated her, and I always tried to give her advice and tell her to forget them because there are more people at the school, and to make friends with people who were nicer to her, but she stayed with that group and she was never herself with them. At the end of the year, she even became like them. She would tell me hurtful things, talk badly about other people's appearances, tell lies to start drama, and she became so addicted to partying that she stopped caring about her grades. I tried to help her, but she never took my advice. It didn't help that she would say mean things to me, that her "friends" said to her. She's out of my life now because she became so toxic.
Trina Q “people want to be told what to do so bad that theyll listen to just about anybody” -Don Draper
@@alorapendrak9752 yes!! I love the musical's look at Gretchen.
Gretchen was such a good character. I’m glad you covered her.
Me too, she's also such a good friend, and more layered than most of the Mean Girls' second in command in movies! 💅
THe Mean Girls musical makes her mentality even sadder.
@ezmetc1833
Gretchen was never really mean to anyone really. Neither was Karen. In fact, they were both victims of Regina’s bullying and just used and ordered them around for her own benefits.
Lemme just drop this quote Gretchen said in the musical version: “Sometimes I feel like an iPhone without a case. Like, I know I’m worth a lot, and I have a lot of good functions, but at any time I could just shatter.” :’)
Moral of the story is to be like Samsung
I used to be an iPhone without a case, now I'm a Nokia 3310.
Gretchen was number 1 in one thing tho...outfits, she always had the best outfits
best clothes, yes
And secrets
I realized that too
yes she did!
I always found it interesting that Cady had the best looks when she was first starting to hang with them but as she becomes plastic her outfits and hair get worse. I got the sense they were dressing her for a while and when she started dressing herself she wasn't really as knowledgeable about fashion. She looked awful at her party.
I think she is so insecure that she has to be in a protection of someone relatively powerful to hide her from facing her insecurities
@Manophere. com wtf are you even saying?????
@Manophere. com lost youtuber?
@Manophere. com what?😂
I just realized that the "Illusion of intimacy" that Regina uses to keep Gretchen close to her, is very similar to how some youtubers refer to their fans "My sisters/family" as example. They make their audience believe that they're really close even tho none of them are from the youtuber close group of friends, yet the viewer feels the need to defend them in case of criticism.
Yes, youtubers are, just like other stars and politicians, like Regina G.They just want you to watch them/vote for them, they actually don't care about anyone but themselves.
No. It’s sweet that TH-cam personalities view their fans in a positive light as without their fans they wouldn’t have what they have
Gretchens also never have their own style or interests or own set of morals. My ex best friend was a follower. She followed me a lot in high school. When she left for college, she found different people to follow, and became really self critical about appearances and money and status, she stopped being interested in math and art and music. It took me awhile to realize “old her” wasn’t her, but her just trying to follow the people around her.
@Manophere. com So...what does that have to do with the comment at all? You just hate feminism. Go cry elsewhere
Manophere. com wtf are you talking about under every comment?
I think the dude, confused the video about the femme fatale archetype and this...
That's the sad thing and then they give you a hard time for not being as conformist.
Jessica Victoria Carrillo Whats interesting is, from an outsiders perspective, me and my new friends probably seem more conformist. She would ask me how my sorority got so many attractive recruits, because that’s something they were struggling with. That question made me and my friends really uncomfortable. We didn’t choose our sorority or the girls we want based on looks- we based it on what the girls wanted out of a college experience and sorority experience. They also needed good grades and be in at least one more extracurricular, so we got a lot of driven people. She asked really weird questions like why would my optometrist friend decide to marry a school teacher, she should be looking for a husband who makes more than her. Uh , maybe because she loves him?
One of my friends is Barbie pretty- tiny, bleach blonde hair, you get it. She was a late bloomer and is a huge dork, but before my old friend even met her, just had seen pictures of us together on IG, she asked me why I would be friends with such a basic girl. Um, maybe because we can talk about Pokémon and resident evil while we work out or go shopping? And she doesn’t need to get wasted or high before we do anything social?
Glad I left that Gretchen behind.
in the social hierarchy, Gretchen actually hold more power than she realizes. Without the follower, there can be no leader. And the moment your secret police decides to change their allegiance, is the time you fall as a dictator
That’s the point of Janis plan to get rid of Regina’s friends and their loyalty to her.
Except Cher and Dion actually like each other
That's cuz Cher isn't a villain. She's a hero
Cher is like one of my idols
Because both those characters are dope. They know their social rules are bullshit, but they use what they have to maximum advantage. Not bad for teenage characters.
cher and dionne are both leaders in different ways and that’s why they worked so well as friends
Yes. And Dionne is not a follower at all.
I love how Gretchen's introduction, getting hit in the head with a ball, immediately conveys that she's a sort of a victim and worthy of sympathy. Like, yes, she's accountable for upholding Regina's regime, but I don't remember Gretchen really being mean to anyone.
Gretchen wasn’t a saint she lies and talks trash about people behind their back just like Regina she wasn’t no better
I felt the most pity for Gretchen in the whole film, I think she was relatable, and my favourite character.
Likewise, I was a total Gretchen, complete with being overly anxious about everything, and wanting to be liked, which many can identify with, especially as teenagers. 🧡
But now we have to get down to the bottom of the real question: is butter a carb?
Yes
No. It's unsaturated fat. Which is worse.
... yes
@@kiwimaracuia9834 Someone doesn't get the context of the line.
@@wvu05 I do though. Still wanted to say it. Just in case anybody does actually think it's a carb. Which it isn't.
It is nice to see that Gretchen was able to get a happy ending as seen in the Walmart commercial where she finds purpose in being a mom, plus the fact that her kids seem alright with her eldest not having the follower mentality and instead being a leader in her own right. Also, since her kids are Asian I like to believe that she married a guy from the Cool Asian group, showing that her joining this clique acted as a step in her development.
I wonder why Regina chose Karen into her Plastics clique. She's pretty, but not very observant or intelligent, so Karen's not really a threat to Regina's power over the school. I would really love to see an analysis essay on that
Julianna Flores that’s a great question
Hi, I think Regina chose Karen for the same reason she chose Caty - because she's pretty. It's easier to control the amount of attention Karen/Caty recieves andwhat they can each do with it when they're friends with her.Butbecause Karen isn't smart enough to be a threat to her power, Regina really doesn't pay her much mind.
They kind of did her in the "Dumb Blonde" analysis
yeah I was just thinking of that!
Julianna Flores they did a political theory video of mean girls it explains karens role pretty well
The funny thing is that fetch happened
phenominiallmusic Stop trying to make fetch happen, it’s NOT going to happen.
it DIDN'T
i love the deep analysis of movies that are considered "thrash" or too girly, i've watched almost every video lol
lol mean girls is not trash, I'm a guy and i love this movie
@@ThamizhanDaa1 this movie is just iconic 💯
I see Mean Girls, I click immediately!
Ditto, instant clickbait material! 💋I hope that they make a video for every character in the movie! 💖
I’ve noticed that Gretchen is the ‘ethnic’ one in the group. The ethnic one was usually cast as the number 2 in the early 2000s
Be r very true!
Still is. The amount of funny black best friends in teen movies is astounding
How is she "ethnic"?
@@Feamelwen I think she's Jewish .
@@veronicageorge3825 she's in the "cool asians" so, she's probably asian, at least a bit.
We need the dumb girl follower next--Karen. I think she also has a beautiful ending realizing her unique talents and passion as weather reporter. Thats an interesting fact as the creative ones in the society. Well we just have a leader, robots and creatives.
They already discussed the dumb blonde trope
She said there was a 30% chance that it was already raining while standing in the rain lmao
she may have passion, but certainly not talent as a weather girl lmao
@@vitamins00 no, see, passion would mean that she actually became a meteorologist :")
@ParticularlyGoodFinder pretty sure most breasts can feel rain
I feel sad for people like Gretchen, you can tell she's so insecure she needs others people's approval.
Do you have solutions? How would someone who lived their life seeking approval suddenly stop doing that?
I actually have a ex-friends just like Regina and Gretchen. People like Gretchen are HELL to be friends with. One minute you think you're forming a close bond with them, the next they turn on you just to defend their queen bee. With people like Regina, one minute you're forming a close bond, the next they correct/degrade you just to put themselves in a higher position than you. It's better to stay away from them all together and just wish the best for them.
Deep down, I can tell they're insecure people and want to be liked by others. Sometimes with insecurities comes pettiness and competition, two things that ruins friendship. You've gotta cut ties with them and soon they will learn to do better. I saw this movie when I was a little kid but never thought I would meet them in real life.
@@ffantasylife3042 definitely agreed.
Gretchen actually ended up happy I’m sure you’ve been Gretchen in your life at least once or twice.
“That’s so fetch!”
“That’s just, like, the rules of feminism.”
“Oh my God, Karen! You can’t just ask people why they’re white!”
“He’s your cousin. No, sweetie.”
“Maybe we should just all stab Caesar!”
“But I’m always on your left.”
Is it sad I know those quotes on the fly...
Nah
Iconic lines
No they're iconic. You are cultured
Wow is it just me or are we being blessed with a lot of videos recently?
Yes, quarantine stricken times comes with more videos, so at least that's one postivite about this crisis! 😍💕
There were so many Gretchen's in the world that it's sad. I had a Gretchen for a roommate and she would always defend a girl who was very cruel and hateful to me, the roommate, and all her friends. She stayed friends with someone who was mean to her and made her miserable. There are way too many trend followers on social media these days. This video was so on point about people like that. It reminded me of that drama in college and it also reminded me of another friend who hung out with a group of friends she didn't really like or fit in with (she would vent to me about the drama and them bullying her) I tried to give her advice and told her to find friends that treat her better, but she stayed in their group. She ended up becoming like them. By the end of the year, she was lying to start drama between people, said hurtful things to me (things her "friends" said to her), and became addicted to drinking. I drink, but she did it so often that her grades slipped and she told me she didn't care. I tried to help her learn to care about her grades, I told her she should find a balance between partying and studying, but she didn't take my advice. It turned out that she told a lot of lies about me behind my back and started a lot of shit. She became very toxic. She's out of my life now. When this video described Gretchen as a follower it reminded me of her so much, now I understand why she stuck with those friends who were so mean to her and I understand why she became like them. She was under bad influence, but ultimately, it was her choice.
For anyone out there who has low self esteem and wants to have friends who are popular or who wants help making decisions, you are amazing the way you are and you don't need to become like somebody else. We all should have agency and be our own person. You are capable, just give yourself a chance. Don't stick with people who make you miserable because you're afraid you won't find other friends.
Thank you for sharing your story. What disgusts me the most is that most people out there literally idolize toxic people like the ones you talked about, and this just shows how powerful and manipulative they are.
Amen. You need to have an open speech about this. I find this highly important.
At 12:13. I love how Gretchen is so desperate to be a follower that she forces herself to learn fluent Vietnamese to serve a new queen bee. Now that is world-class craven subservience! :D
Although ironically, some comments pointed out that she has learned Mandarin or something close to that language instead of Vietnamese as the others Vietnamese girls have no idea what Gretchen is trying to say.
@@KL-ki8db I know Mandarin. That is not Mandarin. That definitely sounds like Vietnamese. But Cantonese sounds an awful lot like Vietnamese to me, so maybe it's Cantonese? I do remember that the Vietnamese girls respond to her like she's disclosing some juicy gossip in the scene at 12:13. So maybe it's just very garbled Vietnamese by the actress? It's a tough language to pick up, what with the tones and everything. I can't imagine the actress had an easy time with this scene. LOL.
Yeah, but in general trying to emerse in another culture and learning a language it's a positive thing. I don't think it's something bad, maybe she finally found the clique that will influence her to do something good & bring some change for the better in her life.
TBH, Gretchen actually just needed WAY better Friends.
Except for Karen, their friendship was a pretty good one
@@panicontheargo7034 , So True.
I love Karen and Gretchen’s friendship. It was cute. Cady got along with them great too. It’s only Regina who was toxic and mean.
Gretchen is such a great and underrated character. I think she's actually a really nice person who just needed to find her own voice and personality.
Scrolling through the comments, I was kinda hoping to see a reference to the Gretchen in Mean Girls the Musical - especially the last verses of her song - "What's wrong with me? What can I do? What's wrong with me? COULD IT BE YOU...?? -- ...It's probably me," - that are sung in an increasingly desperate tone. I think it really serves to highlight the lack of self assurance that leads Gretchen to seem herself as nothing more than a follower, even if she knows - in the song, at least - that her relationship with Regina is fundamentally unhealthy for her. But Gretchen can't see herself doing anything more than that, and justifies that by convincing herself that anything bad in her dynamics with Regina is her own fault. Well, at least until the Caesar breakdown, I guess (which is sadly not in the musical).
I haven't watched The Devil Wears Prada in a while, but I can totally see future Gretchen becoming an Emily type, willing to go through a horribly unhealthy pattern to earn the acceptance of someone that never will grant it - because what Miranda values in Anne Hathaway's character is precisely her self-assurance - and worse, if a Gretchen type never grows out of the perception that what happens to her is on herself to blame. It is also an open door to any kind of abusive relationship.
Anyway, this comment turned out to be way more pessimistic than I expected, but I just wanted to add this little something from the musical's characterization.
Larissa Moraes this needs more likes
I always found the rigid social hierarchies in teen movies weird as they bore no relation to my own experience of school, so it's even stranger to learn that it was based on actual research. Though I'm in the UK so maybe it's just different over here.
Well, I mostly saw this social hierarchy mostly in middle school. In highschool, at least now. Most people have their own groups but there is usually a king/queen, the second in command, and the loyal follower. However it can change pretty easily if someone with the same status joins. I see this is college, clubs, and high school.
@@scp--297 it also depends largely where you come from and the people around you. Inner city school hierarchies were vastly different from the suburban/ rural school hierarchies. Going to school with a mostly immigrants/first generation students are not going to be super focused on mean girl power structures as rural 7th generation american kids.
I'm brazilian and in my school experience, there was some drama but surely didn't looked like any of it. I did studied in a small school though and did noticed that for my younger siblings, their school experience was very different and much closer, despite not being as dramatic, as the ones in these films. So I think it depends on the school, local culture and country.
I think it's just less obvious than in movies and each countries have a different criteria for their hierarchy. Like most asian countries would consider the most intelligent students to be on the top, since school sometimes arrange classes by grades and test scores. It could also be along the lines of student body government, or who are good at dancing or sports. It depends on what the school/students value or idolize.
Same, I'm also from the UK and the most 'popular' girls from my school were just genuine and nice to everyone. I remember once I really hurt my leg in PE and they carried to me to the nurse because I couldn't walk.
We need a breakdown of “the quirky girl” or “the manic pixie dream girl “ (margo roth spigelmen,summer,jess,clementine)
I know a lot of these characters are not mpdg rather they are the breakdown of that cliche but I’m still mentioning their names because I think they might be helpful source for the video..feel free to drop more suggestions
I'm pretty sure they already did that
I would say the weird girl is the quirky girl but idk
They already did a video on that
Mellis Dan they didn’t do manic pixie dream girl,but they have previously analysed the traits of clementine and jess
@@aishatarver193 I know right? The whole point of Summer's character is that Tom sees her as a manic pixie dream girl but in reality she's the exact opposite
Poor Gretchen. She actually WAS a good Friend. She Just Pushed herself to impress a certain someone, and they thought it was 👌 to treat gretchen like crap, continuously.
A suggestion: you could do a playboy trope, I think that would be fun to see
I really like the musical's take on Gretchen's character. Her one solo song, "What's Wrong with Me?", outlines how she herself is aware that she'd only bring future unhappiness for herself, and yet she can't make herself let go of this status.
The song's reprise is sung by Regina's mother, who, by acting like a "cool mom", is still subservient to the hierarchy that she most probably served under back in her own highschool years. This really connects the two and gives a tangible example of what Gretchen might become once she grows up.
Anyone notice that Gretchen's family is German Jewish? I wonder if Gretchen's desire for social capital and to be indispensable to the Queen Bee are connected to what Gretchen's family went through. Supporting evidence is Gretchen's name Gretchen Wieners (a German name) and the fact that Gretchen received the silver hoop earrings that Regina said she wasn't allowed to wear for Chanukah.
🤪
Olive in Easy A fits this role until she begins lying about sex
Miłośnik Życia out of context this comment is so confusing 😂
I always found it pretty ironic that Gretchen was so subservient to Regina for most of the film (until she was pushed too far), as she seemed to me to be the obvious single largest threat to Regina's own position... If only she'd wanted to be. She's not at all lacking in the looks department (a poll I conducted years ago, though hardly scientific, had her ranked as the most attractive member of the plastics), she's presumably the richest by far, and most crucially, she knows everybody's business... her hair is full of secrets, lol. If anyone had the power to "totally just stab ceaser", it was Gretchen, and she probably would've had no trouble taking that position in the aftermath had she wanted.
I think I pitied her the most because, while she absolutely had that potential, she seemingly never realized it, or saw it in herself. She had everything she needed to be Queen Bee... except the self confidence and the ruthless streak.
As someone who is very similar to Gretchen: the lack of self confidence is very evident from the "Reginas" of the world. That's why people like Regina love us because they know that we won't go astray. And they work very hard to maintain the relationship with abuse- one day act very sweet and loving, the next day putting us down. It's the reason people don't leave abusive romantic relationships for years, sometimes even never.
She would have made easy picking for me in HS though. I would have kicked Jason down a flight of stairs and rode with Gretchen into the sunset.
This remind me of the song from the musical mean girls “ what’s wrong with me” I personally thought it really explains her character well
Oh, wow. I never knew there was a musical based on mean girls! ♥️
You keep me guessing
Mama called me beautiful
Don't believe her anymore
That was sad
I used to be a Gretchen and followed along with everything my group did just so I could remain close and popular alongside them, I was in middle school and I realise how stupid that was now, I mean, I have severe trust issues because of how badly I was backstabbed and treated now so I prefer to keep to myself and have a few close but loyal friends. Even though I'm no longer stuck in a toxic friendship, I still find myself looking for attention and validation though from my new friends who didn't know me when I was in my old group and honestly i can still see where all my insecurities came from when I was just discounted as being a 'dumb blonde' even though now I get straight A's and always study. It's the worst friendship to be in honestly.
We need a video on the Iconic Queen Bee Blair Waldorf
YESSS
Oh yeah!!! Please do this or a comparison of Blair and Serena.
It's sad that Gretchen coudn't find a way to express herself in a healthy way when even Regina did
Gretchen's character always interested me whenever I watch Mean Girls. Gretchen was that person who had a best friend who would constantly mistreat them, but didn't want to end the friendship because they were friends for so long. For a long time, I thought if I stopped being friends with one of my closest friends, who I had known since elementary school, I wouldn't have anyone to hang out with.
What Gretchen gets out of her followership is that she gets to be the person pulling the strings behind the scenes. She controls the contents of the Burn Book that Regina uses to make the girls go wild. She gets her place in the clique and the Who You Know status. She takes Regina´s abuse because she knows Regina depends on her for everything. She is like the spoiled celebrity´s agent.
The prettiest Mean Girl. Had the biggest crush on her in primary school
But I think that Karen is prettier than Gretchen thought. Though it's just my opinion.
I think I’m a Gretchen. My Regina isn’t a bad person and I’m still friends with her. The qualities describing Gretchen, I can relate to them, minus the abuse. I would get really mad if I sensed that she liked somebody else more than me. I know that’s a bad thing and I’m working on it. I also know secrets that most of her friends don’t know. I had to move schools this year and it was really hard. I miss her.
Gretchen literally had so much information on regina that she could've used it against her. However, Gretchen choose not to is that she was comfortable in her place in the clique with regina and Karen. In my opinion, if anyone had the actual power to overthrow regina it would've been Gretchen.
One thing I always found ridiculous about teen movies is the court of girls who's only purpose in life seems to be standing behind an important character with a menacing expression..
@Manophere. com Could you stop that spam?
This makes me think of Christian Finnigan's stand-up routine on the "obnoxious popular guy's even more obnoxious best friend."
Manophere. com You are Missing the Point. Missing the Point is a combination of idiocy and ignorance.
I used to be a Gretchen in elementary school and it was tiring and the most worst part of growing up in elementary till the 6th grade. She left and the girl that I thought hated me grew to be good friends and everyone in the class got along and was happy. I knew then to take control of my own life and stop worrying about her's or other's.
In the movie, you can tell Gretchen is actually happy that Katie was slowly taking over Regina’s spot because Katie (while she began to slowly become just as narcissistic and power hungry) wasn’t as toxic and nasty as Regina was to Gretchen.
Cady understood Gretchen the most.
I used to watch this show called Cold Case and they had an episode where this cheerleader Sam was forced to drink a spiked drink by the Head Cheerleader and her poise. Sam's best friend Riley was there during the incident, but she allowed her best friend to die because if she called an ambulance, Sam was gonna expose everything the head cheerleader had done in school, but because Riley so desperately wanted to stay apart of the cheer squad and "the structure" she couldn't let that happen. So she layed there in the middle of the football field and let her best-friend overdose on the drink. Riley wasn't chargred with murder because she didn't poor the drink, instead head cheerleader was arrested. Never the less it was said that Riley chose being apart of a Cheerleading squad with bitches who didn't give a f*ck about her, instead of her best friend of 12 years. 😞
Pop Kulture Guru that’s nuts 🥜 that’s so bad it should never go that far
Ivania macivan-davies yeah i really felt bad for Riley. Cause she just so despreatley wanted to remin apart of the structure that cause she soo much hell. Unforunatley her best friend had to be murdered in order for that to become a reality! 😏 Highschool’s a bitch man!
Regina’s mom was probably a follower FOR SURE
That's so fetch!
Ana J stop trying to make fetch happen! It’s not going to happen!
Can you give a take on why people like the kardashians and bhad bhabie are popular? Basically people who are porpular for no reason that anyone can figure out but they keep getting attention? Thanks
It's pretty simple: people are trained to idolize the rich and beautiful.
Joe Biden I’m guessing you’re an alien visitor from another planet and you haven’t heard music before
This deep introspections into a simple film like Mean Girls is fascinating, keep up guys!
I never realized this before, but Gretchen is representative of every person with a job in a fiercely competitive industry with an abusive boss or every person who won’t or can’t leave a hot or wealthy abusive boyfriend or spouse.
She’s the prettiest of them idk how Regina can say she’s not pretty
Fun fact: In the original script Gretchen wasn’t supposed to be pretty. She was only in the Plastics because of her wealth. That changed when Lacey Chabert was cast, but they left the line in as an example of Regina’s vindictiveness.
Jealousy
@@yamato6114 actually Gretchen was written for Lacey Chabert. She didn’t have to audition which good for her.
I was in a toxic friendship a few months back. I realized i was becoming a follower just to stay in that group. The queen bee of that group was very skilled and she had the power to manipulate anyone and everyone as she liked.
I fought with her and soon enough i was kicked out of that group. A wise man later told me that she was a controller... I should be happy that I was not one of those dumb people who followed her. Yah. That boosted my confidence. I am glad to know I am a rebel.. with a big personality. And haha, the entire group still looks out for me even though i am not officially there. She is pissed now because even after its been six months, they still taunt her for ruining their friendship with me. Karma...
Looks like it worked out so well for you! I wish I stood up to her. To an extent I did but she had everyone wrapped around her finger 😒 and I was scared of being lonely
Didn't work out for me though
I was such a follower type . Because even if the “friends” were mean at lest sometimes they would treat you well and seemed to want you around . Luckily I out grew it
It's interesting to take note of what Gretchen wore in the end. I imagine she wore her hair curled before because Regina told her to. But with the new group, they all have straight hair with center parts. Throughout the movie, she's usually seen wearing light-colored, but she's now wearing a dark top. And she's wearing her hoop earrings. I wonder if her new Queen Bee gave her more liberty to wear what she wanted or if she's just adopted a new uniform to help her better fit in with her new group.
For those commenters on here who feel like they're Gretchens in their lives--you need to see the patterns of thought that dictate what you do in inter-personal relationships and stop yourself from going into those relationships. Spot these patterns and act on them. Look for people who treat you like an equal--these people allow you to voice your opinions and emotions, they give you space for your preferences (a big clue: they agree to do what you want most of the time), and they give you genuine help when you need it (especially an ear and a shoulder to lean on). If anyone in your circle of friends does not do this, cut them out quickly. Those people are bound to find a side-kick with low self-esteem. But this side-kick is not going to be you.
I’m auditioning for Gretchen’s role in a couple months, and I’ve been watching videos like this for the certain roles before I audition and it helps, but none like this video. I totally understand what she’s going through, and I resemble her like no other. This video has helped exponentially. Thank you!
Here faster than Gretchen spilling Regina's secrets.
and Notice to be in these cliques... beauty is the first thing you have to have.
Even in HS alot of the pretty girls were friends. However, watching this video I realize it wasn't because they genuinely liked each other, it was because they shared the same status of being a pretty girl.
Kind of like how you see fat women clique up.
Well, teens are vulnerable with the STATUS aspect.
And almost everyone are like Gretchen but when they became Regina, they cant handle it.
They also look for Validation, thats it.
How's strange. The Take channel showed up in my dreams just a few minutes ago!
Love the channel. Keep up the good work.
I think people “like” people like Karen because they aren’t a threat. Sure, she is pretty and sweet but she doesn’t have the bite that makes her a threat to anyone. Karen’s like a baby, so it’s easy to be nice to her as long as you can be patient enough with her less-than-bright mind.
Gretchen actually kinda liked Karen because of that baby-like “innocence,” Regina doesn’t think much of her because she knows Karen is too stupid and simple to plot anything against her, Cady is pretty neutral about Karen because of Karen wasn’t ever mean to anyone.
On the flip side, Regina is always trying to keep Gretchen on a leash because she actually has information that she can use again Regina; Regina tries to manipulate Cady into submission because Cady is the one with the looks and brains to possibly dismantle her, and it actually happens for a while.
I love these Mean Girls analysis videos. Sure, it’s a funny and ridiculous comedy, but it’s incredibly well-written and a lot of thought was put into the characters. It’s what makes this movie stand out from most teen drama/comedies.
Cher isn't a mean girl. She was kinda vapid but you can still tell she had a heart of gold.. Dee, who I loved , was a mean girl on the other hand.
I used to be a follower when I was younger and I was miserable. Constantly being belittled by friends made my self-confidence plummet yet I would never really stand up for myself until later on . I rationalized that it's better to have friends than none at all. It was wrong though, there was a lot toxicity due to insecurities. Admittedly I started to buy into it and became used to the treatment, thinking that was how most friendship dynamics were supposed to be. I only improved my mental health once I started to stand up for myself.
I love how this random mid-2000's teen comedy has warranted this level of analysis almost 20 years later. Brilliant
It is so common that a leader will chose a weak number 2, who is someone who lacks enough competence to challenge the leader.
i hated how Gretchen was considered the non-attractive plastic, just because unike her friends her hair is dark and curly (she literally complained about her hair). i think one of the reasons why she considered Regina to be superior is because no matter how stunning she is, she was far away from the ideal american beauty standard which is having straight light hair and blue eyes, (if you look closely you'll see that she's the only one who was never called pretty) . She was so insecure about her attractiveness that she was still crushing on a guy who was flirting with other girls in front of her.
yeah exactly and I always thought gretchen was actually prettier than regina and that regina was jealous of her darker features and her curly hair and even jealous of her personality because gretchen was known to be social, funny and even sympathetic towards people. I think this makes a lot of sense as to why regina was meaner to gretchen than she was to karen cause even though karen had a gorgeous face, she didn’t really have a personality that regina could be jealous of cause she was just the dumb girl. Gretchen was pretty and had personality and it was obvious regina resented her for it. Knowing that gretchen was a threat but also knowing how insecure she was, regina took advantage of that and made her one of her little followers so she can control her and keep her in check.
Rigina is just jelous that grechen is richer than her
Gretchen is what we call a “door knob”. They usually go hand-in-hand with a “dominant” (Regina). The Dominant chooses which way the door knob turns - it has no will of its own, it yields entirely to the turner.
They want power and status but they know they can't get it by themselves so they form a symbiotic relationship with the popular one. Even if the popular one is kind and a gentle person. The sidekick will be mean because they want to narrow the access channel to the game circle they imagine is around the popular one.
You see this in As Told By Ginger. The popular girl Courtney is actually relatively nice, if a bit ignorant and stuck-up at times. But her sidekick Miranda is the actual mean girl whose sole purpose is to maintain the status and power that comes from being best friends with Courtney. When Courtney starts to befriend Ginger, a plain and dorky unpopular girl, that's when Miranda gets especially villainous and possessive.
A point that could be added that how obvious there roles are to everyone watching. While these followers believe they have status, it is never really true.
This reminds me of my country Philipoines. Duterte is Regina George, Gretchen is Bong Go and the rest of his senators. Lastly, the DDS Filipinos are all Karen Smiths.
The lyrics "mama told me I was beautiful, don't believe her anymore" MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW
Found this to be really realistic
Gretchen has always been my fav because she was so relatable. My friendship group is similar to the plastics. There is the leader, who is mostly the leader because the rest of us are just too shy. Basically, she is the only one able to assert her dominance as a leader. Also, she is able to express her opinion bravely, which just makes you think she is right. And when she stands up for something you agree with, but never could, it makes her seem valuable. She isnt afraid to speak up for us so the group feels protected. She also speaks up against other remembers of the group. We have rules, punishments and meetings. It can suck to be a follower because you need to lie about your opinionbs or do bad things you otherwise shouldnt do. I suported the leader kicking another girl out the group till the very last second. I once expressed a strong opinion for the first time in the group, and leader talked about me to the other members behind my back. I pretend to agree with the leader when I dont in order for her to trust me more. I follow her for many reasons
1) Comfort- If I have any concerns, she will listen to them, and not spill them to anyone. I cant be salty towards her without being afraid she will leave me because we are close. We can talk about anything because she can be so evil that I have a place to talk about that stuff. Also if I bring up a concern of mine about anything (even other members of the group ) she will bring them up with confidence and sas.
2) Safety- I know that I am not at risk of being kicked out the group, or being talked about behind me back ( most of the time ) because I am so close to her.
3) Knowledge- I can understand exactly whats going on in the group, because she is the most secretive, I can understand my other friends easily, and I get her secrets and plans. I understand everything about everyone you could say.
4) Friendship- I am deadly afraid of having no friends, so if I am a follower, I have a close friend. Its easy. Not many people will except a follower other than means girls. Its how I can get a 100% secure friendship.
5) Respect- The other members of the group know how close I am with her, and know that I know alot so they have a bit of respect for me, but not fear. We still talk with no pressure or like we need to be careful, like we do with the leader,
I just love your take on this, I mightve been that "follower mindset" person in college and i just find myself back then very people-pleasing. I remember feeling superior than others and cant believe im more stupider back then 😂
I had a best friend who I was friends with since Highschool who treated me like I was her side kick and I don’t think she ever saw me as a friend. I couldn’t even open up to her. It was always about her and she would criticize me when I tried opening up to her. Even when I talked about my own problems she would act like I was being selfish and say everyone has problems. I got tired of it so I called her out on it and told her I don’t want to be her friend anymore.
I hope you learned from that lesson and moved on to healthier relationships, where friends treat you like an equal. I had the same thing happen to me, and I learned to watch out for those type of people. Now I'm waaaay happier with the friends I have. :D
Video suggestions on characters:
- The Dumb Girl trope (Not sure if the blonde video covers most of this)
- The Rises and Fall of Jan Levinson (I find her to be a very fascinating character, shes a independent and professional woman but sadly her self destructiveness ruins her)
- The Dumb Guys (like Joey Tribianni, Luke Dunphy etc)
- Why Do We Hate Main Characters Today (i realised we have a certain trend where we started to notice the flaws of our loved main characters such as Pam Beesley, Tori of Victorious, Rachel Greene,)
That 1/2 second clip you used from Buffy the Vampire Slayer desperately made me want a Take video on that show and characters -- so much to dig into that seems right up your guys' alley.
These high school girl dynamics are so unrelatable, at least in Europe. In my HS class everyone had like 1-3 friends they stood around with on recess and barely remembered the name of anyone else. We were too tired and our backs were too sore for some petty hierarchy lmao
Yup in Europe it would be weird to have a popular girl /boy. I always found this relations in US movies pathological
Honestly, it's the same here in America too, at least at my old high school. Sure there were people who I guess were more "popular" than others at my school, but most people didn't care that much. And most of the popular kids were as bossy or mean as Regina. They just did their own thing, and we did ours.
And I guess we did have certain "groups" who would hang out together, but they're not as rigid or strict as they are in the movies. You could be a theater kid and also be in sports, while hanging out with the popular kids and obsessing over anime like the weebs did. No one cared that much.
It's called an exaggeration man. Lol
I still love this movie though because there's a slight truth to it, and it's hilarious.
I wish that was true when I was in high school, but honestly, it was just this toxic power dynamic. We had the popular ones and their followers, the sporty ones and some outsiders (including me). My school time was bullying hell and I hated every second of it.
I live in Scotland. My hugh school was just like this one, and there was a group of “popular” girls, who were actually dubbed “the plastics”. 😂 they really were very akin to Mean Girls. I’m pretty sure they knew about the nickname too but they seemed to actually relish it. It was very cliquey. Thought that would end at hugh school but sadly, my uni was exactly the same with that social hierarchy. It makes me think of that song “high school never ends”.
I just recently started watching your videos. Just 3 days back. And I'm totally binge-watching them. Love your work. Keep it up
is this why I always felt like gretchen was the most relatable out of all? I’m in a trio, and I’m definitely not the dictator or the pretty face. I do know a lot of gossip about everyone and everytime someone talks about my friends I tell them. And I do everything I can to make them happy but they are constantly mean to me. I think I just had an epiphany 😭
3:39 "She feels like it's just the two of them, and everyone else is a Wannabe"
I wonder about Euphoria and how it can relate to this.
Honestly I felt I was this for dome friendships even as an adult and I realized how I was numbing my intelligence and sense of beauty make those friends feel less intimidated and how I settled for their treatment because I was afraid of being lonely.
It doesn't take much for a Gretchen to turn into a Janis.
I want her to teach me the rules of feminism 😂😂
*_but who doesn’t?_*
Lol same 😂
Gretchen's character is really interesting. They show a little bit more of her insecure side in mean girls the musical
You guys are brilliant! That line at 13:22 really spoke to me.
I think Regina mainly kept Gretchen around because she could count on the fact that no matter if she wanted to, Gretchen could never over throw Regina as she is MEANT to serve/ be a follower as opposed to a queen bee. Unlike Cady and Janice who are both the mean girls in different ways, Gretchen is desperate to be liked and seeks approval because of her insecurities rather than be the power figure where as Karen doesn’t care about any of it and just happens to be a pretty, rich girl but isn’t really bothered about what other people think of her or being Regina’s favourite which is why, at the end, Karen does NOT join a new cliche but Gretchen DOES!
Your analysis is always so informed
This absolutely reminded me of Unbreakable Kimye Schmidt when that Gretchen was such a follower, and then goes on to lead her own cult.
Also they had the same name which is just great.
I love this channel’s hot takes and video essays, always gives me a different perspective and different way of looking at my favourite movies 🎥