Honestly, in a way these folks are already disabled, before the loss of any limb. Having a compulsion to physically disable yourself is something that requires as much medical help as any true physical disability ever would. I have my own disabilities, chronic pain, I could never fathom WANTING to live like I do, not in my wildest dreams, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. To desire that, especially to the point it drives you to suicide, is, without a doubt, a clear disability.
yeah.. they are mentally disabled i guess? it's just a matter of being able to remedy the issue without causing permanent damage to the body. it's a tough disorder, for sure
I have had brain cancer twice in my right parietal lobe. I lost the use of my left arm and a lot of use of my left leg after the final surgery. After a while, like 6 months, I started to feel like my left arm wasn’t mine anymore. I had learned of this condiotion from an episode of FX’s Nip/Tuck. That’s what was stuck in my mind through out. I knew it was my arm but it didn’t feel like it. I could look at my arm, but my brain didn’t recognize it as mine. I solved my problem by getting a couple tattoos done on my left arm a couple months later. Now i feel fine never had any more of those thoughts since i got those tattoos.
I wonder how it worked, and if it would help others. Did you kinda "reclaim" and make the arm your own by making it a canvas for art? Or kinda put a metaphorical stamp on it, to make it yours? Did you come up with the idea on your own, or did someone suggest it? You don't have to answer if you feel it's too personal. Regardless of the reasons, I'm glad it helped you!
A study found that some of these people-a very specific group-suffer from a disorder of nerve development. The affected people have always wanted a specific limb removed, saying it doesn’t feel like part of their body. Not only does the limb never change, but the person has a specific point on the limb where their limb changes from them to not-them. This point doesn’t change. They don’t suffer from any other psychiatric disorders, at least not more than the average person. They’re perfectly normal people who are convinced that after a certain point on their limb, their limb is intrusive, not-them, and they want it removed at that spot. Researchers who study proprioception traced the path of the afflicted people’s proprioceptors. They found that in each case, the person’s proprioceptors ended at the line where they indicated they wanted their limb amputated. It turns out that proprioceptors don’t just tell the body its location in space. They also tell the brain the difference between “me” and “not-me.” These people weren’t crazy. They weren’t suffering from a psychological disorder at all. Because of a glitch in development, these people’s proprioceptors stopped short on one limb, so their brains works and designed and told them the limb wasn’t a part of their body.
Mr. Jones lend me Your best limb, why So I can take your Left leg to the thigh And then can play it Making it my own Brand new appendage Amputation guitar "Shut up, Maria!" Mr. Jones can we Both cut up Maria Her voice boy howdy Does it grate at me She sings like sh*t Her dancing can quit But with both our help She will surely go far I'm sure with planning Mr. Jones, and a proper Bottle for each of us 3 We'll get the best out her Anyone could ever get At least a couple handfuls Of maracas, and several Dozen pairs of castanets But with your help so she Can start to help us, too Mr. Jones, yup, you and me We're gonna be big-a$$ stars If Maria falls hard for that Going down easy, silently Until getting her to shake Rattle and roll, reliably, so Too, click-clacking up her Mighty fine stomping storm Us three are all gonna be Big big stars, not wannabes Me, you, Maria and the Off- Spring...we'll all see to that
@@SheLikesLoons right? What we should be doing is making people accept that the limb is theirs, conceptually if not mentally, instead of harming their ability status. I heard tattoos help and if they do it should be mandatory to look into it instead of more drastic things, as well as having them use the limb in daily life if they refused to before. Disability dysphoria is not a valid reason to modify your body, choosing to make yourself less able is self-harm. People should always seek to increase their ability, never decrease it.
I wonder if it might be possible to acknowledge the alienness of their limb, but help them to befriend it as a loving other who wants to assist them in life? Perhaps give their foot a name, give it a different color sock from the other one, treat it like a pet dog? I don't know, but maybe they need a different kind of accommodation.
That sounds hilariously silly at first, but is honestly a good idea, as even people with severed brain halves have been able to get the non-speaking half to function in tandem with the other by openly talking to it and describing their intents and actions.
I was thinking the same thing. They could try to find a coping mechanism. I think getting tattoos is in the same vein and that approach did seem to work for some people.
I experienced something like this around 11-14 years old. I desperately wanted a limb cut off but I wasn’t picky about which. I attempted on several occasions to cut off a finger but never was able to go through with it-I still have scars on the bases of a couple of my fingers from trying though. It took up so much of my thoughts, I couldn’t stop ruminating over it. It was also accompanied by other self-harming behavior and an eventual suicide attempt, but it went away completely after the suicide attempt. I don’t think I had BIID. I think I had a host of other issues that made me just want to destroy myself, and once I started resolving those issues I no longer wanted to destroy myself.
there was a period of time where I was hella dissociative and would bite my hands and arms. now one of the things I practice in therapy is somatic experiencing (I think) and it kinda makes me wonder if my previous behavior was a way to externalize the feelings I was suppressing, ‘cuz it turns out we humans can’t actually turn off our emotions 😬 uh, anyway, your story sounded kinda similar, especially with the emotional buildup/crash. hope you’re feeling better these days.
I'm glad you worked on yourself and the light that is your life still shines. Congratulations on seeking help. From the sounds of it, you stopped trying to destroy yourself. I hope you're proud of the strength that it took to get there❤
There was a case of this last year in Innisfail, North Queensland, Australia last year. A man paid a friend to cut his leg off with a power saw. He was found dead, in his car, having bled out. The friend was charged with murder. It was known by the family that he suffered from this disorder. Tragic all round.
I feel sorry for the guy who was asked to do the deed; he'll have to carry that guilt for the rest of his life in accidentally killing his friend he only wanted to help.
I'm almost impressed these people can handle the pain of harming their limb beyond saving. Sometimes the pain I feel gets so bad my ears ring and I can taste the stress.
I am a left leg transtibial (below the knee) amputee resulting from accidental injury and infection. I had heard about BIID before seeing this, but this was interesting in the description of the neuroscience involved. I would urge anyone with a desire to lose a healthy limb to seek cognitive behavior therapy or other psychological treatment before going through surgery.
@@lazysylph3312 Don't sell it short. Cognitive Behavior Therapy has helped me more with phantom limb sensation than medication has. And phantom limb is a result of the brain, specially the part of the brain mapped for processing sensation for the limb, in my case no longer there, so is an issue with the central nervous system. And I can say it works.
@lazysylph3312 I think it's to weed out those who have non-BIID issues that present like BIID (such as a commenter who brought up how they had the urges and whatnot, but it was actually from a self-harm angle that just seemed to be BIID but wasn't). At the very least, therapy is always worth a shot and can be helpful even if you were to go on to get surgery.
When I was still working as an ER nurse, we had a guy brought in by ambulance. He had stuck his left foot in a styrofoam cooler of dry ice until his entire foot and half his calf were frozen solid. It shocked us that this man would do something like this. At first, he told the paramedics he got drunk and must have fallen asleep and accidentally put his foot in the cooler... This guy had no drugs or alcohol in his system 🤨. That's when we figured out this was intentional. This was Independence Day night so we were dealing with lots of burns and drunk people. After the surgeon consult, he was taken for emergency surgery and I never saw him again. Even though I knew he had a mental illness, it still bothered me a lot. I had been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (PPMS) a few weeks before and was coming to terms with it. I was only 24 and had a young son. I worked so hard to be healthy despite type 1 diabetes and then MS yet this man would disable himself. He was a bit overweight but overall healthy. I don't know what happened to him but I hope he went on to have a good life. I hope he was able to live a happy life without regret. He suffered from someone many people will never understand... I pray he is no longer suffering.
@speedslayerr to quote properly she said "a bit overweight but overall healthy". However turning bit to but is also very easy as u and i are next to each other so easily could be pressed by mistake.
@@adamturner749 ..& U & I are RIGHT next to each other, so close I can SMELL U! I am right next to u. U can leave, but u will always be left w/ me. I can lie.. but I will always be right to u. Am I wrong? X
That's totally messed up. I'm disabled, I have MS, and I walk with a crutch as my left leg drags. I cannot imagine wanting to live like this. These poor people are clearly unwell, maybe it's a neuro issue, maybe a psych issue, but either way it's got to be awful.
Fellow M.S here that needs crutches for short distance & wheelchair for longer (can use them but The pain sucks) I remember months back learning about transabled & thinking it was some sort of trying to be legitimate thing, hopping on the transgender thing, similar to the whole MAPs (minor attracted person) or trans-age (someone older or younger than they are) have done while also at the same time trying to discredit transfolk, with some legit folks, who clearly need help. (To be clear cause this is the net, transfolk are legitimate, I just thought the transabled was similar to the MAPs thing back then.) To know that it is indeed a real thing that folks suffer from, god, I'd love to be rid of this pain, but I don't want my limbs gone. Hope more studies in the future can help them
@@Saedraverse I know what you mean. The pain in my feet and legs is terrible, and the hug feels like I'm being crushed to death, but I wouldn't want to lose those feet or legs. It must be a horrific thing to experience such a desire.
@saedraverse395 I too, thought the who thing was made up to mock or discredit not just transgender people, but people with invisible disabilities as well. It must be a horrible condition. Part of me feels it must come from lack of access to mental health professionals that are both qualified and affordable. As the end of the video shows, at least some of the sufferers could benefit from it. I have two diagnosis that both are a cause of a lot of pain in my life. 3 if you count debilitating migraines. I remember as a child, contemplating if the pain of an amputation would be preferable. Especially the migraine that was always focused on the same eye: I thought if digging it out with a spoon would make it hurt less. But those thoughts only came during to bouts when the pain was at its peak, higher from the daily background pain. It wasn't constant, and I didn’t really want to *lose* any body parts, I just wanted the pain to stop. I can't imagine wanting to become blind, or wanting to become wheelchair bound. All of these people should receive help from a qualified mental health professionals, even if it isn't fully a mental issue: Real professional therapy can help you find healthy coping mechanisms for when something becomes too much.
I know what you mean. I realize it's because these people have a real problem, but it makes me angry nonetheless. I would be willing to bet a *LOT* of money that me and a bunch of other people experience more pain than those who think they have too many legs. It might be mentally painful for them, but the pain I have in my legs makes a grown man scream. No possible way mental pain is worse than that, I promise! Those of us with pain also have a similar issue in that doctors absolutely *do not* want anything to do with us pain patients. Typically only special clinics, and they are full of horrible people and drug addicts.
When I was a teenager, I wanted so bad for something to happen to one of my legs so it had to get removed. I'd imagine removing one leg, and even did do some self harm because of how little I cared. Even now as an adult, I don't exactly feel like my legs are a part of me, but I'm not in any rush to lose one of them. In an odd way, one of the large scars I gave myself has allowed me to feel that at least that one leg is truly a part of me. And yes, I'm in therapy. With the help of my therapist my wish to amputate one of my legs is because I want to have something that you can actually see is wrong with me instead of all the invisible mental illnesses I suffer in my head
You are not alone! Depression has been a part of my life since I turned 13 (I'm almost 33), but it took 6 years before I was actually diagnosed, because there was nothing visible wrong with me. Depression could be ignord by parents, who didn't want to acknowlede their child was sick. Sometimes I felt like screaming "How sick do I have to be to get help?!" At 24 I was diagnosed with epilepsy and suddenly everyone offered sympathy and help. I didn't know if I should be relieved or furious. Physical symptoms makes a huge difference, even though it shouldn't. I don't know if it's international, but in Denmark it's now possible to wear a "sunflower string" around your neck. It means that you have an invisible illness, that people have to be aware of.
Another commenter stated that tattoos helped them to feel more connected to their limb. Maybe that could be something for you aswell. Similar to the scar that makes you feel more connected.
From what some of the other posters have said it feels like once you have something that distinguishes the limb as your own tattoos scars piercings etc anything that's a body modification that doesn't lead to actual loss of the limb all of a sudden you have ownership of it maybe not full standard ownership but something akin to an ownership that lessens the pain of wanting to have the leg removed because it doesn't feel like yours. That visible scar is probably very helpful to your brain At least that's how it comes off when putting all these puzzles together but I'm no psychologist.
Oh cool I have BIID too I usually just use a wheelchair to ease the dysphoria without harming myself at all, but bruh my parents are kind of ableist and I have to hide it from them 💀💀🪦
You treated this subject with empathy and respect. There were no shocking imagery. And the only shaming was of the pedo doc. Thank you for the quality content.
Yes we are supposed to tip top around issues and just let the loonies run the mental asylum. "what's that Bob? u hate ur leg? no problem let's saw it off!"
@@derpestarztit’s okay to not understand neuropsychiatric disorders, but please don’t call the people afflicted with them and the people who support them “loonies.” this sounds crazy to you because you know next to nothing about it and can’t put yourself in the sufferers’ place
His response feels like the doctor is the looney not necessarily the patient. And that doesnt feel out of place here. You can be sympathetic to some one wanting to be maimed, but the moment you start pouring drain cleaner into someones eyes it feels like some line has been crossed.
As someone with many life altering disabilities, I feel for these people. Having such debilitating thoughts that you’re considering suicide… it’s hard to not feel sympathy. I hope one day we can cure the condition without amputations.
Dysmorphia in general needs to be talked about much more. Most people have one form or another, often weight, body shape, etc, and not badly enough to take action. But its a *spectrum* It's too easy for people to not extend compassion to people at the "feel it so strongly they must take action" end of the spectrum, whatever form their dysmorphia takes.
It should also be brought to light that gender dysphoria also comes under this category-feeling at odds with reality and having the desire change it by surgery.
to me this sounds like 2 different disorders mixed into one - one being an actual disorder of not feeling like the limb belongs to you physically, and the other one more like an urge and crave to be disabled. Like one is about the specific limb and the other one about the goal of being disabled if that makes sense
Exactly. There are neurological reasons that make a person feel like part of one of their limbs doesn’t belong to them. It’s not a psychological disorder, it’s a nerve disorder. They’re completely different from the second group of people you described, but they get lumped together in ways that aren’t helpful for understanding either disorder.
I suspect the same issue is occurring more and more with modern diagnoses and problems, as people self-diagnose and/or grow attached to their concept of a diagnosis as attached to their sense of identity.
@@Dr.Fluffles That’s been going on for a while. Look into the psychology behind environmental illness and multiple chemical sensitivity-it’s fascinating. The suffering is real, but often the illness has no biological basis.
Yup if someone has a neurological impairment that is telling them that a limb isnt theirs and they dont respond to medication or psychological therapy it seems plain cruel to force them to perform self mutalation or go to the black market for the relief that is unattainable without limb removal. Sure they become disabled physically but it sounds like they are less functional and more disabled mentally because of their level of distress with the healthy limb.
@@rosiejl2798what if they come back asking to amputate their other limbs? What if the amputation doesn't help them and they are still mentally but now also physically disabled?
I actually heard about this quite a few years ago, it was a story about one man in particular who used dry ice on his leg. They interviewed him afterwards and he was so happy, swimming laps in a pool with his one remaining leg
From what I could find this is a brain defect where the ''hated'' part is no longer recognised as belonging to the body. Like an USB your PC doesn't recognise and wants you to eject.
I know I don’t have the condition but as someone with a lot of others(Chronic, painful, and started in childhood) the amount of time I’ve thought about cutting out the offending areas isn’t small. Especially in a bad mood, so if someone had a brain problem and genuinely thought about/needed it that doesn’t surprise me. Hope they can find peace in their lives, everyone deserves it.
Weird side note - the black market BIID surgeon in Mexico was the uncle of the founder of notorious gaudy leggings MLM company LulaRoe. One of LulaRoe's shady practices is encouraging members to get sketchy discount weight loss surgery in Tijuana, where the founder has connections due to her uncle. The uncle, John Ronald Brown, has a few documentaries & podcasts about him, as he had quite the iffy history of medical malpractice, which is why he was doing hotel room surgeries in Mexico.
@@reellifeoutdoors2905he stepped away from geographics and biographics which are channels he didnt own. Due to a personal disputes after the passing of the original channel owner
@@reellifeoutdoors2905recently he left Biographics and two other channels that were actually owned by someone else he just narrated. Biographics owner has a video explaining it.
I learned about this in abnormal psychology class in the spring and it really challenged my view that I’m not a judgmental person. I had to put effort into being understanding.
Of course, though, everyone is judgmental. We need to be for our survival. Once you accept what is simply the truth-that we are all judgmental-then you can begin to free yourself of unnecessary guilt and move on from that initial judgement to a more functional state of discernment.
You should use judgement and not let mentally ill people decide their treatment, specially when it involves permanently blinding themselves or amputating healthy limbs, are you d0000mb??
Oh, but you are a judgemental person. You couldn't stop even if you tried. And even if you did manage to stop judging people, you would soon find yourself dead. You NEED to judge people as a matter of survival. Thank goodness your conscious self isn't actually in control of it.
Last year fella in queensland here in Australia paid a newly immigrated friend to cut off his leg with a power saw. Not realising the legal implications but seeing that he could send money home to his needy familu, he agreed and they completed the grisly task. The DIID sufferer bled out and died before help could be summoned and the friend was charged with manslaughter, so sad
Oliver Sacks wrote about something like this in "The Man Who Mistook his Wife for a Hat." From Wikipedia: ""The Man Who Fell out of Bed", is about a young man whom Dr. Sacks sees as a medical student. Sacks encounters the patient on the floor of his hospital room, where he tells Sacks that he woke up to find a strange leg in his bed. Assuming that one of the nurses had played a prank on him, he attempted to toss the leg out of bed, only to find that he was attached to it. Although Sacks attempts to persuade the patient that the leg is his own, he remains bewildered in an apparent case of somatoparaphrenia."
I love Oliver Sacks’s books! He not only writes eloquently and explains in a way that both casual readers and doctors can understand, he also does it all with a non-judgemental lens seeing as he’s witnessed hundreds if not thousand’s of neurological brain disorders with their “bizarre” presentations in real life. “The man who mistook his wife for a hat” is like case studies, but not written like a dry clinical report but instead with genuine compassion and an invitation for anyone to learn more, medical professional or not. It is filled with incredibly fascinating stories!
Hopefully this will not be too long. In Dec. 2003 my neck collapsed/broke severing and crushing nerves mostly based on my left. The surgeon done a fantastic job and with the aid of titanium plates, bone, screws I was repaired, but the pain in my left thigh was debilitating, my GP gave me a cocktail of opiates and other pain killers. The biggest killer for me was being told I can never work again. Dozens of scans, tests, x-rays took place, a neurologist checked my right thigh for nerve conductivity and found that normal, my left thigh had zero conductivity. Walking was slow but I coped with the support of my family. There was pain in the left thigh which was weird, often like ice needles akin to pins and needles but much more intense. Then more intense pain as heat, I could not make sense of it. I had other numb areas in my left arm and foot, these were numb and still are. I thought about whether the leg being amputated would stop the pain, I was told probably not, but as the leg was good except for the nerves it was unlikely. I had no wish to have the leg amputated it was the pain that drove the question. I gradually got used to the normal pain and endured the high pain. I then contracted cellulitis in my right leg and this was due, so the doctor stated, to my inefficient immune system. They prescribed antibiotics which I took, but they did not stop the infection. After 3 weeks and multiple antibiotics the infection was still evident. At this time my GP warned me that my lower right leg may have to be amputated. Thankfully in week 4 the antibiotics began to work. At no time had I wished for the removal of a limb, which made me think about the BIID sufferers that I'd read about in the early 80s. I was puzzled by the condition, but this post definitely cleared things up a bit. Mind you I had not thought about BIID for years, until I saw your post. Thanks for posting.
I injured my thumb in a wood shop accident back in 8th grade in the '80s and for a couple of decades the tip felt numb and tingly, though it did eventually return to feeling normal. Since it started with an injury I can't help wondering if it might have been something similar.
This topic came up in my high school intro to psychology class, week 2.. I found the topic so distressing that i cut class and never went back to taking psychology. The notion made my insomnia worse. I wondered what would make someone think this option was rational and would i ever have that psychosis. I like your presentation better than how my class went about it. I think learning about it through you would have been less traumatic for me.
It is so sad to have these people out there with functional bodies who are choosing to get rid of them when there are so many of us born with disabilities who would give ANYTHING just to have working bodies. The mind can truly be a horrible enemy.
As someone who's had a lot of nightmares and fears of losing limbs (especially fingers - my brain loves to feed me nightmares where I lose fingers specifically, and it is so upsetting), this is a very hard video for me to watch, but it is also an important discussion . There definitely seem to be several different reasons people feel this way though, and for them to all be lumped into one diagnosis is potentially harming at least some of them. I peeped at the comments and saw several examples, like people who have depression and just want to harm themselves need treatment for depression for example. Here's hoping the more that's learned the more directed help people get for their specific needs, and that our healthcare systems improve and cultural stigma problems so people who have varying conditions (like depression) are able to actually get help before they reach this point.
This is so true, and with the growing ability to test for the neurological issue, I think we are close to the point of being able to separate those sufferers out and figure out what help the different groups need
I've had occasionally recurring (and disturbing) dreams aboug losing teeth for as long as I can remember. Not an overwhelming thing in my case, but it's interesting to hear about someone else with something sort of similar.
I have 2 relatives who are anorexic and bulimic. They are emaciated, but are absolutely convinced they are overweight. What do they see when they look in the mirror? They have both destroyed their health. So terribly sad.
I really see how these conditions could relate. I started thinking the same thing partly through the video a disorder based on body image. Like weightlifters that abuse steroids or people that become obsessed with plastic surgery
I had a friend like that in 1980. Her teeth had rotted away to little black stubs from self inflicted vomiting and her eyes were sunken down into the sockets. She only ever ate the occasional jelly bean to stop from passing out then quickly put her fingers down her throat. She was in and out of mental institutions for years and eventually lost custody of her son.
@@rosevelvet4357 Different for sure, but it'd be foolish to ignore the similarities. Treatments that work for one may very well be effective for the other.
I had this condition when I was a teenager. I had severe mental illness, and this condition was the result of it. I’m glad I kept my eyes and never went blind.
Documentary filmmaker Melody Gilbert make a great film about this condition in the early 2000's called "Whole" -- it's really fascinating and humanizing, and features some of the individuals mentioned here, and interviews that include some of these exact topics, like the fact that sufferers can identify the EXACT physical spot where their limb ceases to be "theirs" -- the border between "yes, that is my leg" and "that is no longer my leg and needs to go away."
Hugs ʕっ•ᴥ•ʔっ ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ I am sorry for your pain, but you are stronger than what you think !!!!!!!! I can understand you in some ways. The two part of my brain feel separated and act like two different people. Needles to say is that I learned how to hide it since a young age.
I can understand it. I had a huge foot phobia for years and the extreme fear, broken relationship with my family and sleepless nights made me wish I could just cut off my feet. I had regular panic attacks and didn't trust my family and friends. The idea of spending the rest of my life this way at some point was worse to me than the thought of being an invalid. Apart from the fear of the pain, what held me back was the knowledge that my phobia was in my head and I would still have it, even without feet.
I too, have a phobia of a body part. Belly buttons. Even writing this is irking me majorly. I've thought about getting mine removed because that would be considered cosmetic surgery, and possible from a legal standpoint. But that probably wouldn't deal with the feelings i get from seeing them on other people, so it probably isn't the best idea
I see a lot of comments saying "I would give anything to NOT be disabled," and I get the sentiment. But body dysmorphic disorders aren't a "choice." First we have to separate the people with body integrity issues vs people who want to be generally disabled. Yes, I agree that anyone who wants to be disabled as the goal definitely needs psychotherapy because seems to involve a whole lot of dependency issues. But for someone whose goal is the physical amputation, the disability is not even part of the equation. Of course an unintentionally disabled person would not wish it on their worst enemy and "give anything to be ___ again," because they don't have a body integrity disorder. It's like telling a gay person to just stop being gay, or a transgender person to stop being trans. It's not a choice or a lifestyle, it's just the way they are. If there was "another way" to "fix" being trans without a ton of invasive medical intervention I'm sure there would be plenty of takers, in much the same way BIID patients would take any functional treatment for their condition. But sometimes the only thing you can do to make your body right is to just... make your body right.
@@MadScientist267Very well said, you need to accept reality and play the hand you're dealt! This also goes for people getting leg-lengthening surgery.
@@MadScientist267I'm asking this in good faith, I truly would like to understand your point. Does this apply to transgender people as well? What about people who get elective plastic surgery? I'm just trying to understand where the line is for certain people.
In a perfect world, this could be treated by fixing the brain, instead of breaking the body. However, I guess for a lot of sufferers, the science just isn't there yet.
It's also way safer to cut off part of body rather than messing with brain. Even "just" antidepressants are absolute mess. Me and my friend at one point had prescribed same AD. She had to take six or seven to feel any effect, I took first half and had to immediately drop it, because my brain freaked out and I struggled to even breath or stay conscious (easily one of, if not the most, terrifying experience in my life, knowing it's because your brain fails to function and doctors couldn't do anything about it other than wait and maybe put you on ventilation with defibrillator on standby to keep repeatedly revive you until brain clears off AD if you end up hospitalized). My psychiatrist had to try out another two different types of AD before finding one that doesn't tries to send me into hospital. The point is, that even if we find way to treat it by affecting brain, there are still gonna be large percentage of patients who couldn't undergo it. No two brains work same, so making universal treatment is virtually impossible and it's not unlikely to never find way to treat it on brain level.
Except that wouldn't always work. They're often missing nerves that often stop where they no longer feel the limb is theirs. Fixing the brain wouldn't change that. Without those nerves, it is impossible for the brain to map it and realize it belongs to them.
Given BIID is caused by having an incomplete map or conception of your own body, the only treatment on the mental side would be to completely rewrite someone's sense of self into a more "normal" one Personally, that sounds more horrifying to me than just losing a limb. Itd be like amputating someone's childhood memories or their favourite colour.
Not necessarily. Because of neuroplasticity, rewiring the body’s internal map of itself can in some cases be fairly non-invasive. The example that comes to mind is mirror box therapy for people suffering from painful or uncomfortable phantom limb illusions following loss of a body part. It may be such that it is possible for a similar type of therapy to be done to cause a brain to recognize the normal condition a healthy body part rather than stop experiencing imaginary aches and pains in a missing one.
It's interesting how so many of them seem to be of especially high intelligence and success, which I've noticed seems to tie to higher physical sensitivity. I've noticed with a small portion of skin on my thumb which I believe has mild nerve damage from how I have tended to hold things for years, where I can still feel it, but it somehow still registers as foreign to me, like cloth brushing over the rest of the thumb. I wonder if many suffering this have a similar, but much greater issue, not necessarily in the brain, but in the nervous connections to those areas of the body, resulting in a loss of proprioception, but not sensation or function.
I have this condition and I was asked to take some psychological tests to see the state of my mind and I can say I aced them all. A few averages and a lot of above average results
I think you're talking about two separate things. There's a BIG difference between wanting a limb gone because it feels alien and wanting to be an amputee/physically disabled.
I remember something like this from Discovery Channel's Taboo series. This woman wanted to live her life in a wheelchair, no amputation needed, yet she also like hiking in the woods. It's a very weird psychological/neurological phenomenon, but I don't think it's in relation with gender dysphoria, since that's more hormonal-related during the gestation period of the fetus' development, IIRC.
i hated it when they talked about gender identity disorder and described it as your gender identity being *wrong*, because as a trans person, my gender identity is who i am and that is never wrong. dysphoria is different from whatever they were talking about, it’s just the pain and discomfort that can come from your body not matching who you are inside. we may be saying the same thing, but i just didn’t agree with the way they phrased it. i’m sorry for typing a giant paragraph in your replies 😭
I've seen that one too, though it's been so long I should probably watch the series again. (p.s. for anyone interested in looking it up, it's NatGeo, not Discovery.)
Surprised that body mods havent come into this. Its not the same, at least all the time, but theres people who have had fingers, ears and noses removed by body mod artists. One UK artist got arrested a year or so ago for extreme body mods
A fascinating exposition of a problem few people are able to understand. Very thought provoking. The brain is an incredible thing, how mind and brain work together is endlessly interesting and before anyone judges anyone else, they should at least attempt to gain an understanding of the relationship of the physical brain and mental functioning.
My friend suffered fun this. He cut off his nipples, sewed up his naval, and tried to cut his little finger off. Before this he did extreme body modifications to deal with the urges. Split his tongue. Split his penis. Got scarification, piercings and tattoos. He was one of the first people to get his eyeball tattooed. Things got too much for him, he'd gone as far as he could do on his own, and eventually he left this world.
Why can't you combine the two approaches, if necessary? Make therapy and meditation a prerequisite to surgery for (6 months? A year? 🤷♂️) and then, if that doesn't work, surgery could be considered as a solution.
Lol I assume you meant medication, even though it still works as written. I think your proposition is the most reasonable stance to take, under the condition that there are no other observable mental conditions concurrent with BIID. The person must, in all other regards, be otherwise completely mentally sound in order to qualify for surgery.
Surgery should never be considered, and they should get therapy teaching them to cull intrusive thoughts if they become a danger to themselves. Disabling yourself on purpose is not valid, we all should be seeking to improve our ability.
@@JuanPerez-hy7kzYeah if you were born disabled, or had an accident. (a REAL accident not a staged one) Becoming disabled on purpose is wrong, you were meant to have a healthy fully functional body. And even in birth/REAL accident disabilities, we should be working to develop ways to fix them and bring them back up to normal or better.
Wait, so in the last example he must have actually had a normal parietal lobe if he was fixed by therapy. That case sounds more like extreme self-harm than a body map that excluded his legs. (I’d suspect the same of the people who cut off their own finger but the problem was actually with a leg…? Or maybe it affected everything on the left side but the leg more than other body parts?)
I’ve heard of this before and it scared the crap out of me, but it’s good to know it’s a deformity and I couldn’t possible acquire it! Well, not unless I had a tumor in my right parietal lobe, I guess.
I literally asked a neurologist this when he walked by. She said, "Possibly are you reading a peer reviewed study?" I said, "No, just a TH-cam comment." So, she's looking to see if there's completed or current study. We have patients and are short staffed. Until I find another way to distract her my case load is a bit heavier. Don't make my rookie mistake 😢 I'm not a rookie. I knew better than to ask mid shift. Let my punishment be a lesson. Don't ask neurologists, nephrologists, or infectious disease practioners questions. They may get too easily side tracked or worse want to discuss it with you for most of your shift and the next if you'll both be working.
i found this channel 2 months ago im a person who loves learning about things, the stuff that people dont think about be it crime murder or drugs and there effects love how these videos fully explain stuff to me in a professional and easy to understand fasion i learn alot keep it up 10/10 content.
I don't know what to make of this story. Dysmorphia or fetish or both or neither. Like so many things concerning the human condition, we need to study it to understand it better, but because it is a taboo subject, we ignore it. 😢
There just HAS to be a better option than amputation/deafening/blinding for this. Do you know what I would give to have been born with normal, healthy ears? I've had three surgeries, painful infections, and hearing loss that genuinely made me feel excluded from the world at large. My hearing is now considered average, but I still suffer unique limitations. The idea that someone would *have* perfectly good hearing and *want* to get rid of it enrages me, legitimate neurological problems or not. It's not a lifestyle, it's a disability that's made every day of my life more difficult.
@@xyz7572 it IS nonsensical and ridiculous IN GENERAL. Disabling yourself because you hate being healthy or like the aesthetic is not valid and should never be validated at any point going forward.
@@jayce1850 I do not dispute that it is a nonsensical and bizarre condition. What I’m saying is that to these people - with a neural abnormality that makes their bodies not recognize part of itself as belonging to them - this condition is very real, and very agonising. One must filter out the people who display these sorts of symptoms because of extreme versions of OCD, fetishes or psychosis, of course, but when conditions like those have been excluded, there still remains a group of people whose bodies do not recognize certain body parts. I’m not saying we should amputate or disfigure them because of this, what I’m saying is that there _are_ real brain abnormalities and illnesses that make this happen to people’s intrinsic perceptions of themselves, and we need to take it seriously to be able to help them in their suffering.
@@jayce1850they don't hate being healthy and the don't like the aesthetics. Those that actually have it are missing the nerves REQUIRED for their brain to recognize it. Also being an amputee doesn't make you some invalid. And suggesting that someone that is an amputee os somehow inferior and invalid is EXTREMELY abelist.
I've sometimes thought that my life might be easier as an amputee. I definitely do not have BIID though. I just have deformities to right hip and knee, and my right leg is shorter than my left. Which means that when I'm standing, most of my weight falls on my bad leg. I could resolve the issue with a knee and hip replacement and surgical leg lengthening, but if it gets to the point where I have to do all that, I think I'd rather just have the whole thing removed and I'll just use a prosthetic that's as long as my other leg lol
@@Financiallyfreeauthoragreed. Though op should know that if they plan to go the route of prosthetic limbs, above knee prosthetics are significantly more difficult to use than below knee.
@@mmmmmmmmaria I enjoyed it. Each episode focuses on a specific psychiatric disorder. I compare it to House bc it is very similar in structure. It only lasted 1 season which is a bummer, so limited # of episodes. Maybe like 12 episodes. But I enjoyed it.
GD that was dark. I am struggling to remember the word for the sense that let's you know where your body is in space, like touching your nose...please remind me someone. But that alone would be hell for these people. Much less the self mutilation. I've watched pretty much all of the into the dark, and this is the only one that made me cry. I can imagine, but I can never know, the hell these people live through. Edit: I found it. Proprioception.
The neurologic cause seems like a plausible explanation for some of these cases, but that clearly does not explain people craving blindness or those who are removing disparate body parts.
It's because when it has a physical cause, it's due to the nerves your brain uses to map itself and is required for a sense of self are just...Not there. These people know that the komb is theirs but that doesn't matter because their doesn't. Amd sometimes tattoos can help, but that is only if it's the brain have g the issue and they have the nerves. Without those nerves...Thatd be like someone that is born with the genetic condition where they can't feel amd telling its all in their head.
The human mind is too complex for its own good. The vast amount of horrifying mental afflictions we suffer is the price we pay for the intelligence we have….in some dark, twisted way. As someone who has suffered with bipolar disorder and PTSD for over a decade…I’ve come to see my brain as my own worst enemy. Instead of feeling grateful to have thoughts and feelings, I wish I thought and felt nothing at all because the thoughts and feelings are almost always bad instead of good. How do you fight against your own mind? How do you fight YOURSELF? These questions wrack my brain nearly everyday. Honestly, it seems like a hopeless battle to me. BUT….here I am….and I’ll still show up tomorrow, and the day after and the day after…..until….I don’t know. I hope everyone is doing okay! Keep your head up!
It seems that amputation helps. I hope a better way is found someday. Especially eating disorders which are very hard to treat successfully and have a 25% fatality rate. I can’t imagine what these people are going through.
I heard tattooing the affected limb helps, which should be mandatory if the case is severe enough to drive action as well as therapy to have them use it with the goal of making them rely on the limb more often, and removal should be barred completely.
@@Insertia_Nameia At that point they need behavior therapy then to make them accept the limb as theirs in concept despite being unable to identify with it, so that they no longer see it as a valid option to remove it, just like how I learned not to consider my suicidal intrusive thoughts as a valid option.
Right at the end there. Exactly what I was thinking. What if they change their mind after the fact? I'm not a psychologist but its clear something isnt right in their minds. Therapy and antidepressants can work wonders. Anyone wanting to change anything about themselves, you gotta give therapy a psychiatry a shot first. Once you commit, you can't go back.
As someone who almost ended up in hospital after first half dose of AD (particularly type that was considered one with least amount of side effects). You also cannot rewire brain, since we still don't really understand how brain function and what makes us, well, us. Cutting off someone's limb is actually safer if done by competent surgeon than filling them up with psychofarmacs that will make their brain new butthole, since this seems to be born condition and thus not possible solve by therapy - you can make them get used to how their body looks like, but they wouldn't ever get happy and probably requiring ADs for rest of their life just to not quit on their life (which is worse. I was taking them, have friends who still take them, it feels like it's not even you anymore, aside of other things, those side effects are brutal)
I'm sorry my friend, Perhaps I didn't express my point properly. All I was trying to say was to exhaust every other avenue before hacking off your limbs or any other body part that is irreversible. Thankyou for pointing it out and allowing me to clarify. @@depressedTrent
My gosh, the sheer quality of your videos is astonishingly good! I'm always deeply interested in the topics you choose to investigate. I find myself slipping down the you tube rabbit hole, watching multiple video's and enjoying every one. 🎉
As a disabled person and as a trans person, I support these people and do see how their experiences are similar to mine. It's a neurological condition they cannot help anymore than I can help my disabilities
But isn’t it strange that there are surgeons unwilling to cut off healthy limbs but are willing to do bottom surgery essentially cutting off healthy sexual body parts for a pretty price. I find that so strange the difference between healthy limbs and healthy sexual organs. What’s the difference? Like you said it’s neurological disability that should be addressed over giving in and maiming someone with mental illness. I wish you the best and hope you find a way out of your disability. God bless
@Cheka_Check_Itout it's not "healthy" if it is causing a person this much disress and many mental health profesionalls agree that some people need said limbs amputated to live a healthy and happy life. That IS often the best way to address these illnesses as the brain doesn't have the proper mapping for said limbs and there often isn't a way to force the brain to recognize it as part of the body. The reason so many surgeons won't remove these limbs is due to the fear of being sued due to the possibility of the patient regretting it later in life, not because it isnt the right treatment. Same reason most surgeons won't tie an AFAB person tubes if they are under a certain age. There is also a different between a mental illness and a neurological disorder and what these people deal with is neurological. But keep talking about things you are ill informed on. Also there is no way out of my arthritis aside from gene therapy which Christians keep trying to prevent. Odin bless
That does not seem ethical. What if a cure is discovered in ten years? There is a reason doctors must, “Do no harm” and this is one of the reasons. People sometimes have to wait for fixes because a solution has yet to arrive no matter how unpalatable that wait is.
It's complicated really, on one side there isn't a cure and perhaps waiting for one is a better option, on the other side, so many people might unalive themselves before a cure is found, thus making surgery the only option.
I’m disabled and so are these BIID sufferers too. The condition is causing them not to be able to live life properly. Hopefully the ongoing research into the insane supercomputer that is our brain will yield something and everyone can be helped without losing parts of themselves. It must be awfu.
@caroljohns1402 If I had cancer and you could definitively say a cure was 6 months away, I'd try to live till then but an unknown timeline for a cure does not help anyone and treatment might benefit them more than a cure. Especially since treatments are unreliable and a cure might not happen.
You wanna know the fascinating thing about Krokodil? The actual active drug doesn't cause the flesh rot, it's impurities from the street cooking method that they make it with that do that, it could be made pure and thus not nearly as harmful. It's because the street cooks are morons and/or they don't care about the people they are hurting.
I have yet to see Krokodil in the wild. I have seen TranqDope in the wild. I'm interested in looking at necrotic tissue. I see necrotic toes and feet often. Typically, in homeless patients but also quite often in diabetic patients.
@@mandibailey9104I watched a doc years ago they showed a dude shoot up in his leg and you can see the bone and some veins, it was kinda gross but really interesting
In your opening example it was ' ... an INVINCIBLE obstacle' Simon ... invincible ... not "invisible" lovey. Changes nuance slightly. Brilliantly researched though and I learned plenty.
Interesting how seemingly all legitmate and not at all a fetish cases relate to having a specific kind of brain damage. Or at least a miswiring. It's probably not yet possible today, but there's pretty big hope for the near future with advancements in nanotech biological repair. Writing new neural pathways to confirm ownership of the limb would likely be akin to an irrigation system installation.
Knowing first-hand how much of shitshow are antidepressants and how we fail miserably at making them work consistently even after decades of development (I got prescribed same AD as my friend, she had to take at least six to feel any effect, I took half and almost ended up in hospital, needing four or five days to clear out any remaining side effects) and with fact how little we understand how brain actually function, messing with wiring of brain is incredibly bad idea.
I only knew about this being a thing because it was featured as a case in one episode of House MD, but I thought it was exaggerated for the sake of creating drama. Quite fascinating to think that this actually happens to real people, the thought of someone willingly becoming disabled sounds as counterintuitive as it gets.
my mom knew a girl, who was convinced & obsessed with 2 of her fingers on her left hand "weren't hers" and after she reached adulthood, she had them amputated (idk if she did it, or by doctors, no idea) & she is "normal" & happy ever since! its a real thing & kinda crazy, but after they get rid of the "wrong limbs" these ppl are often times "back to normal", from what ive seen 2. hand (pardon the pun) but still, its real! i saw her without her pinky & ringfinger! totally normal women otherwise!
So interesting, and so sad. I don’t have this, but have frequently fantasised about having numb legs because they are constantly in pain. I feel like it’s close enough (although psychological discomfort as opposed to physical discomfort) that I have some empathy. Also, living with gender dysphoria is kind of similar. Times I have thought about attempting to perform my own chest surgery… obviously that’s not safe and not reasonable… but a 6 year waiting list and no end in sight to just talk to a gender specialist in the U.K. has been… hard.
Yeah, the waiting lists in the UK hurt me as well. And the medications have nasty side effects. Often I just want to end it, or do the surgery myself. But as you said, not reasonable. I'm glad you too are able to speak about these things. It's far better than bottling them up... I don't know how I survived as long as I did, doing that.
The thing is if they want to become disabled by choice, they should have to go to therapy and have a plan to provide for themselves. People who become disabled through accident or illness didn’t choose it.
That's one of my concerns. Disability through birth or accident often means extra medical care and costs of living. These people should be able to show they can pay their way through such, not just become a societal obligation by choice. Save society funds for those who had no choice in their special needs!
@@FairbrookWingates Is having a disorder that makes you want to kill yourself for having a limb by choice? If it's severe enough and therapy won't work, then I think they have a right to get their limb cut off.
@@foolishlyfoolhardy6004 that isn't what i was saying at all. I'm saying they need therapy and if they still Choose to go through disabling themselves because they want to be that way they shouldn't then get to live off benefits. Also I know people who have tattooed their eyes as well and it went fine for them. That's also a different scenario, they went in to it Not expecting or wanting to lose their eyesight. If someone has amputation because of massive nerve pain and that's the only way to relieve it again a different scenario. If you wilfully go in to disabling yourself because you're mental and didn't get help or even if you did get help and still choose to do so that's a choice. its different you should be prepared to have someone take care of you and not become a burden to society. I have fibromyalgia and I'm diabetic i am in pain every day, some days are better some are worse, I still work. I pay my bills and i take care of my family. Luckily i haven't had to have anything surgically removed but with the issues i have its a possibility later in life. I certainly don't hope for it.
@@foolishlyfoolhardy6004 Eh, we'll agree to disagree. :) I'm a pretty strong advocate of "don't do stupid shit you know will mess you up". I'm also a huge advocate of getting people help *before* they do said stupid stuff though. Prevention over cure I suppose. Idealistic, I know. Mental health care is really, really bad most everywhere. :(
@@foolishlyfoolhardy6004 I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant if someone wants their healthy limb removed, don't ask society to pay for that surgery or your crutches after while you learn to walk with a prosthetic. I'm all for mental health care to fix/cure the desire to remove a healthy limb.
Ngl, I’m all for bodily autonomy. I could think it’s fucking insane to want to amputate a healthy limb, but it ain’t my body so it doesn’t really matter. If this is the only way they find relief then fuck it. They deserve to live their lives happy and on their terms. That’s just my 2 cents.
This is crazy. I may really be disabled one day and I don’t want to be. I don’t want to depend on others. I have Rheumatoid arthritis and it has hit me kinda bad this year at 59 years old. I don’t want it. I have no desire to be down to where I can’t do much. I don’t want to be crippled and for my hands and fingers to be twisted up. I like to paint, sew and make things. It is insane to want to do that to yourself!!
Yeah but they're just losing a limb, they're not asking to become invalid. Missing an arm or leg doesn't make you one amd what you have is NOT comparable to being an amputee. People really need to get over this abelist mindset that amputees are somehow inheritly inferior and incapable.
Just because another human's experience is different from yours, doesn't mean they are "crazy". It is a neurological disorder, so they are already invisibly disabled before they harm themselves. And I'd bet money that they would rather be healthy (without BIID) aswell. Nonetheless I am sorry that you are suffering from your disorder and wish you well!
I was not aware of the history and details of John money, can you please do a video of this case and the background of that case study of the experiments placed on the twins? Unless you have already I will look for the video on this matter.
I think more work needs to be done to make sure someone actually hs BIID before doing anything drastic. You might be surprised how many "medical professionals" are doing it with no true evidence tat the person truly has the disorder and is just disabling people willy nilly rather than looking for the underlying mental health. I'll note that at least one person had complext PTSD and was being actively abused when they were convinced to become disabled and is traumatized by that past.
I'm permanently disabled, not from anything done intentionally. I am also transgender. But I recognize the fact that these people do in fact have a disability. A condition to make them feel this way. And they deserve help. They deserve to feel safe and ok. Im not sure how we would be able to help them best, but I wish more research into options could be done so people could live happy lives. With or without the parts of their body that are uncomfortable. The only part I have a problem with is the term "transable", I don't like it. But I understand there may not currently be better terms, and we may not find better terms.
I have BIID and almost everyone else with the same condition I’ve talked to doesn’t like ‘transabled’ either. I’m trans as well but it has nothing to do with my BIID and vice versa. “Wanting to be disabled” or “identifying as disabled” doesn’t define the experience at all either. The only people who really use that term are the people who use us and our struggles as a laughing stock for people who don’t care about understanding the condition and only need to make fun of someone to feel better about themselves. It’s really refreshing to see more people slowly becoming more accepting of mental illnesses including the more out-there ones like this. I understand the knee-jerk reaction that comes with hearing that someone wants to be blind or remove an arm but I really respect those who are able to move past it, do their own research, and take the time to be understanding.
Fixing a problem between the ears by mutilating a healthy body is commonplace in our mad world. I hope that one day we'll be able to fix problems in the brain better and stop with this horrific butchery. It's a miracle to be born with working parts, and a tragedy to despise them.
As someone that knows I'm going to be in a wheelchair before I'm 50, I seriously hope they get some help. Like actual help not cutting their limbs off help.
Since it is usually caused by a neurological issue with no known treatment, psychological “help” usually does nothing. I get being pissed at people who would give up something you with you had, but most of the time their brain just can’t recognize it as a part of themselves and there is nothing that will fix them
@@jayce1850 these people are harmed by it though as their brain cannot properly connect to the limb, these people risk their lives or kill themselves because of how much distress their limb causes them
@@jayce1850so you'd prefer they are miserable and off themselves because you make everything about yourself and feel uncomfortable about their actions?
I'm transgender. The regret rates for people who have transitioned are incredibly low. If you compare them to things like people who had kids, the regret rate is fifteen percent for having children. The regret rate for having a transgender surgery is about one percent. Most common necessary surgeries have regret rates of about five percent up to fifteen percent or more.. I think it would be important to look into the people that have already tried removing their limbs and see what their rates are. There will always be outliers. Doctors do make sure that transgender patients are really serious. I had to have a minimum amount of therapy with a transgender specific psychiatrist who was able to prescribe me meds if she thought I needed them for other conditions. Both my surgeons needed consultations before I ever underwent anything permanent. I think a big part of helping people with this disorder would be treating them like it's real first of all. And I think it would be a good thing to make sure that there weren't other options that could be done to migitate without the extremes of full amputation. My partner is also transgender and an amputee from cancer. I don't say this sort of thing lightly because I know it's a pretty big deal to have parts removed.
@@poip202you know those rates are for people who haven't surgically transistioned yet, right? meaning the people who are still experiencing the dysphoria from their birth sex? silly goose!
In my teenage years I was in a car accident and struggled with occasional electric shock sensations to my left shin, often leaving the surrounding area numb and it always happened when I would be sitting in class, distracting me. I wanted to remove that leg so bad. Last year I got a tattoo on that calf and even though it still happens occasionally, i love that tattoo too much lol
Honestly, in a way these folks are already disabled, before the loss of any limb. Having a compulsion to physically disable yourself is something that requires as much medical help as any true physical disability ever would. I have my own disabilities, chronic pain, I could never fathom WANTING to live like I do, not in my wildest dreams, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. To desire that, especially to the point it drives you to suicide, is, without a doubt, a clear disability.
The cure is simple. High lead diet.
I agree. I have had chronic pain for 22 years and been disabled for 14. I can not fathom this disease at all.
yeah.. they are mentally disabled i guess? it's just a matter of being able to remedy the issue without causing permanent damage to the body. it's a tough disorder, for sure
Basically trans people
Just say you're changing your gender and doctors will cut off whatever you want.
I have had brain cancer twice in my right parietal lobe. I lost the use of my left arm and a lot of use of my left leg after the final surgery. After a while, like 6 months, I started to feel like my left arm wasn’t mine anymore.
I had learned of this condiotion from an episode of FX’s Nip/Tuck. That’s what was stuck in my mind through out. I knew it was my arm but it didn’t feel like it. I could look at my arm, but my brain didn’t recognize it as mine. I solved my problem by getting a couple tattoos done on my left arm a couple months later. Now i feel fine never had any more of those thoughts since i got those tattoos.
I wonder how it worked, and if it would help others. Did you kinda "reclaim" and make the arm your own by making it a canvas for art? Or kinda put a metaphorical stamp on it, to make it yours? Did you come up with the idea on your own, or did someone suggest it?
You don't have to answer if you feel it's too personal. Regardless of the reasons, I'm glad it helped you!
Very creative solution, congrats :)
@@Sienisota its possible that by seeing the tattooing done and feeling it that it might have reconnected the neural pathways.
Very interesting. I hope you answer the others' questions this is fascinating
@@TheRABIDdude its just a thought :)
A study found that some of these people-a very specific group-suffer from a disorder of nerve development. The affected people have always wanted a specific limb removed, saying it doesn’t feel like part of their body. Not only does the limb never change, but the person has a specific point on the limb where their limb changes from them to not-them. This point doesn’t change. They don’t suffer from any other psychiatric disorders, at least not more than the average person. They’re perfectly normal people who are convinced that after a certain point on their limb, their limb is intrusive, not-them, and they want it removed at that spot.
Researchers who study proprioception traced the path of the afflicted people’s proprioceptors. They found that in each case, the person’s proprioceptors ended at the line where they indicated they wanted their limb amputated. It turns out that proprioceptors don’t just tell the body its location in space. They also tell the brain the difference between “me” and “not-me.”
These people weren’t crazy. They weren’t suffering from a psychological disorder at all. Because of a glitch in development, these people’s proprioceptors stopped short on one limb, so their brains works and designed and told them the limb wasn’t a part of their body.
so in other words, they still are crazy and suffering from a psychological disorder
Thank you. That is very helpful and fascinating information.
Has there been any work in trying to grow proprioceptors in the affected limbs?
Mr. Jones lend me
Your best limb, why
So I can take your
Left leg to the thigh
And then can play it
Making it my own
Brand new appendage
Amputation guitar
"Shut up, Maria!"
Mr. Jones can we
Both cut up Maria
Her voice boy howdy
Does it grate at me
She sings like sh*t
Her dancing can quit
But with both our help
She will surely go far
I'm sure with planning
Mr. Jones, and a proper
Bottle for each of us 3
We'll get the best out her
Anyone could ever get
At least a couple handfuls
Of maracas, and several
Dozen pairs of castanets
But with your help so she
Can start to help us, too
Mr. Jones, yup, you and me
We're gonna be big-a$$ stars
If Maria falls hard for that
Going down easy, silently
Until getting her to shake
Rattle and roll, reliably, so
Too, click-clacking up her
Mighty fine stomping storm
Us three are all gonna be
Big big stars, not wannabes
Me, you, Maria and the Off-
Spring...we'll all see to that
@@SheLikesLoons right? What we should be doing is making people accept that the limb is theirs, conceptually if not mentally, instead of harming their ability status. I heard tattoos help and if they do it should be mandatory to look into it instead of more drastic things, as well as having them use the limb in daily life if they refused to before. Disability dysphoria is not a valid reason to modify your body, choosing to make yourself less able is self-harm. People should always seek to increase their ability, never decrease it.
I wonder if it might be possible to acknowledge the alienness of their limb, but help them to befriend it as a loving other who wants to assist them in life? Perhaps give their foot a name, give it a different color sock from the other one, treat it like a pet dog? I don't know, but maybe they need a different kind of accommodation.
That sounds hilariously silly at first, but is honestly a good idea, as even people with severed brain halves have been able to get the non-speaking half to function in tandem with the other by openly talking to it and describing their intents and actions.
This made me think of the anime parasyte, where an alien eats the protagonists arm. Gets a name , they team up and everything.
@@gur262 "Sorry bro, I'm not you when I'm hungry."
I was thinking the same thing. They could try to find a coping mechanism. I think getting tattoos is in the same vein and that approach did seem to work for some people.
I 🩷 your comment, OP!!!! I, "liked," it, but, the thought is amazing & maybe the best idea!
I experienced something like this around 11-14 years old. I desperately wanted a limb cut off but I wasn’t picky about which. I attempted on several occasions to cut off a finger but never was able to go through with it-I still have scars on the bases of a couple of my fingers from trying though. It took up so much of my thoughts, I couldn’t stop ruminating over it. It was also accompanied by other self-harming behavior and an eventual suicide attempt, but it went away completely after the suicide attempt.
I don’t think I had BIID. I think I had a host of other issues that made me just want to destroy myself, and once I started resolving those issues I no longer wanted to destroy myself.
Way2be be! Live long and prosper!
there was a period of time where I was hella dissociative and would bite my hands and arms.
now one of the things I practice in therapy is somatic experiencing (I think) and it kinda makes me wonder if my previous behavior was a way to externalize the feelings I was suppressing, ‘cuz it turns out we humans can’t actually turn off our emotions 😬
uh, anyway, your story sounded kinda similar, especially with the emotional buildup/crash. hope you’re feeling better these days.
I'm glad you worked on yourself and the light that is your life still shines. Congratulations on seeking help. From the sounds of it, you stopped trying to destroy yourself. I hope you're proud of the strength that it took to get there❤
Happy you're still here with us. Keep strong!
Thanks for surviving
There was a case of this last year in Innisfail, North Queensland, Australia last year. A man paid a friend to cut his leg off with a power saw. He was found dead, in his car, having bled out. The friend was charged with murder. It was known by the family that he suffered from this disorder.
Tragic all round.
Sounds like a happy ending for all
I feel sorry for the guy who was asked to do the deed; he'll have to carry that guilt for the rest of his life in accidentally killing his friend he only wanted to help.
@@Echo81Rumple83 Where I come from this is called a "Darwin Award" and both of them earned it.
I have some good friends. There are none where I would cut their leg off with a power saw.
But how much did he pay tho?
I'm almost impressed these people can handle the pain of harming their limb beyond saving. Sometimes the pain I feel gets so bad my ears ring and I can taste the stress.
I can't use my legs. I don't find it impressive. I've lived with lots of pain from JRA to RA to dislocated knees n hips. It's just not impressive.
I am a left leg transtibial (below the knee) amputee resulting from accidental injury and infection. I had heard about BIID before seeing this, but this was interesting in the description of the neuroscience involved. I would urge anyone with a desire to lose a healthy limb to seek cognitive behavior therapy or other psychological treatment before going through surgery.
If it’s a neuro issue then cbt would only be a symptom management issue, not a fix.
@@lazysylph3312 Don't sell it short. Cognitive Behavior Therapy has helped me more with phantom limb sensation than medication has. And phantom limb is a result of the brain, specially the part of the brain mapped for processing sensation for the limb, in my case no longer there, so is an issue with the central nervous system. And I can say it works.
@lazysylph3312 I think it's to weed out those who have non-BIID issues that present like BIID (such as a commenter who brought up how they had the urges and whatnot, but it was actually from a self-harm angle that just seemed to be BIID but wasn't). At the very least, therapy is always worth a shot and can be helpful even if you were to go on to get surgery.
Any doctor or surgeon who performs these procedures should be sued for malpractice.
*instead of ever going through surgery.
There, fixed it.
When I was still working as an ER nurse, we had a guy brought in by ambulance. He had stuck his left foot in a styrofoam cooler of dry ice until his entire foot and half his calf were frozen solid. It shocked us that this man would do something like this. At first, he told the paramedics he got drunk and must have fallen asleep and accidentally put his foot in the cooler... This guy had no drugs or alcohol in his system 🤨. That's when we figured out this was intentional. This was Independence Day night so we were dealing with lots of burns and drunk people. After the surgeon consult, he was taken for emergency surgery and I never saw him again.
Even though I knew he had a mental illness, it still bothered me a lot. I had been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (PPMS) a few weeks before and was coming to terms with it. I was only 24 and had a young son. I worked so hard to be healthy despite type 1 diabetes and then MS yet this man would disable himself. He was a bit overweight but overall healthy.
I don't know what happened to him but I hope he went on to have a good life. I hope he was able to live a happy life without regret. He suffered from someone many people will never understand... I pray he is no longer suffering.
As an ER nurse I am curious what you define as a "but overweight"? Genuinely curious
@@speedslayerrprobably BMI
@speedslayerr to quote properly she said "a bit overweight but overall healthy". However turning bit to but is also very easy as u and i are next to each other so easily could be pressed by mistake.
I hope you’re doing well OP. Diabetes and MS is a tough hand to be dealt, especially at 24 years old.
@@adamturner749 ..& U & I are RIGHT next to each other, so close I can SMELL U!
I am right next to u. U can leave, but u will always be left w/ me. I can lie.. but I will always be right to u.
Am I wrong? X
That's totally messed up. I'm disabled, I have MS, and I walk with a crutch as my left leg drags. I cannot imagine wanting to live like this. These poor people are clearly unwell, maybe it's a neuro issue, maybe a psych issue, but either way it's got to be awful.
Fellow M.S here that needs crutches for short distance & wheelchair for longer (can use them but The pain sucks) I remember months back learning about transabled & thinking it was some sort of trying to be legitimate thing, hopping on the transgender thing, similar to the whole MAPs (minor attracted person) or trans-age (someone older or younger than they are) have done while also at the same time trying to discredit transfolk, with some legit folks, who clearly need help. (To be clear cause this is the net, transfolk are legitimate, I just thought the transabled was similar to the MAPs thing back then.)
To know that it is indeed a real thing that folks suffer from, god, I'd love to be rid of this pain, but I don't want my limbs gone. Hope more studies in the future can help them
True say. It's a disorder alright, a fucking mental disorder.
@@Saedraverse I know what you mean. The pain in my feet and legs is terrible, and the hug feels like I'm being crushed to death, but I wouldn't want to lose those feet or legs. It must be a horrific thing to experience such a desire.
@saedraverse395 I too, thought the who thing was made up to mock or discredit not just transgender people, but people with invisible disabilities as well. It must be a horrible condition. Part of me feels it must come from lack of access to mental health professionals that are both qualified and affordable. As the end of the video shows, at least some of the sufferers could benefit from it.
I have two diagnosis that both are a cause of a lot of pain in my life. 3 if you count debilitating migraines. I remember as a child, contemplating if the pain of an amputation would be preferable. Especially the migraine that was always focused on the same eye: I thought if digging it out with a spoon would make it hurt less.
But those thoughts only came during to bouts when the pain was at its peak, higher from the daily background pain. It wasn't constant, and I didn’t really want to *lose* any body parts, I just wanted the pain to stop. I can't imagine wanting to become blind, or wanting to become wheelchair bound.
All of these people should receive help from a qualified mental health professionals, even if it isn't fully a mental issue: Real professional therapy can help you find healthy coping mechanisms for when something becomes too much.
I know what you mean. I realize it's because these people have a real problem, but it makes me angry nonetheless. I would be willing to bet a *LOT* of money that me and a bunch of other people experience more pain than those who think they have too many legs. It might be mentally painful for them, but the pain I have in my legs makes a grown man scream. No possible way mental pain is worse than that, I promise!
Those of us with pain also have a similar issue in that doctors absolutely *do not* want anything to do with us pain patients. Typically only special clinics, and they are full of horrible people and drug addicts.
When I was a teenager, I wanted so bad for something to happen to one of my legs so it had to get removed. I'd imagine removing one leg, and even did do some self harm because of how little I cared.
Even now as an adult, I don't exactly feel like my legs are a part of me, but I'm not in any rush to lose one of them. In an odd way, one of the large scars I gave myself has allowed me to feel that at least that one leg is truly a part of me.
And yes, I'm in therapy. With the help of my therapist my wish to amputate one of my legs is because I want to have something that you can actually see is wrong with me instead of all the invisible mental illnesses I suffer in my head
That's very valid. Within the disabled community, I def would say that visible disabilities are an unfortunate privilege, but a privilege nonetheless
You are not alone!
Depression has been a part of my life since I turned 13 (I'm almost 33), but it took 6 years before I was actually diagnosed, because there was nothing visible wrong with me. Depression could be ignord by parents, who didn't want to acknowlede their child was sick. Sometimes I felt like screaming "How sick do I have to be to get help?!"
At 24 I was diagnosed with epilepsy and suddenly everyone offered sympathy and help. I didn't know if I should be relieved or furious.
Physical symptoms makes a huge difference, even though it shouldn't. I don't know if it's international, but in Denmark it's now possible to wear a "sunflower string" around your neck. It means that you have an invisible illness, that people have to be aware of.
Another commenter stated that tattoos helped them to feel more connected to their limb. Maybe that could be something for you aswell. Similar to the scar that makes you feel more connected.
From what some of the other posters have said it feels like once you have something that distinguishes the limb as your own tattoos scars piercings etc anything that's a body modification that doesn't lead to actual loss of the limb all of a sudden you have ownership of it maybe not full standard ownership but something akin to an ownership that lessens the pain of wanting to have the leg removed because it doesn't feel like yours. That visible scar is probably very helpful to your brain At least that's how it comes off when putting all these puzzles together but I'm no psychologist.
Oh cool I have BIID too
I usually just use a wheelchair to ease the dysphoria without harming myself at all, but bruh my parents are kind of ableist and I have to hide it from them 💀💀🪦
You treated this subject with empathy and respect. There were no shocking imagery. And the only shaming was of the pedo doc. Thank you for the quality content.
Yes we are supposed to tip top around issues and just let the loonies run the mental asylum. "what's that Bob? u hate ur leg? no problem let's saw it off!"
@@derpestarztit’s okay to not understand neuropsychiatric disorders, but please don’t call the people afflicted with them and the people who support them “loonies.” this sounds crazy to you because you know next to nothing about it and can’t put yourself in the sufferers’ place
His response feels like the doctor is the looney not necessarily the patient. And that doesnt feel out of place here. You can be sympathetic to some one wanting to be maimed, but the moment you start pouring drain cleaner into someones eyes it feels like some line has been crossed.
As someone with many life altering disabilities, I feel for these people. Having such debilitating thoughts that you’re considering suicide… it’s hard to not feel sympathy.
I hope one day we can cure the condition without amputations.
Dysmorphia in general needs to be talked about much more. Most people have one form or another, often weight, body shape, etc, and not badly enough to take action. But its a *spectrum* It's too easy for people to not extend compassion to people at the "feel it so strongly they must take action" end of the spectrum, whatever form their dysmorphia takes.
It should also be brought to light that gender dysphoria also comes under this category-feeling at odds with reality and having the desire change it by surgery.
to me this sounds like 2 different disorders mixed into one - one being an actual disorder of not feeling like the limb belongs to you physically, and the other one more like an urge and crave to be disabled. Like one is about the specific limb and the other one about the goal of being disabled if that makes sense
Exactly. There are neurological reasons that make a person feel like part of one of their limbs doesn’t belong to them. It’s not a psychological disorder, it’s a nerve disorder. They’re completely different from the second group of people you described, but they get lumped together in ways that aren’t helpful for understanding either disorder.
I suspect the same issue is occurring more and more with modern diagnoses and problems, as people self-diagnose and/or grow attached to their concept of a diagnosis as attached to their sense of identity.
@@Dr.Fluffles That’s been going on for a while. Look into the psychology behind environmental illness and multiple chemical sensitivity-it’s fascinating. The suffering is real, but often the illness has no biological basis.
Yup if someone has a neurological impairment that is telling them that a limb isnt theirs and they dont respond to medication or psychological therapy it seems plain cruel to force them to perform self mutalation or go to the black market for the relief that is unattainable without limb removal. Sure they become disabled physically but it sounds like they are less functional and more disabled mentally because of their level of distress with the healthy limb.
@@rosiejl2798what if they come back asking to amputate their other limbs? What if the amputation doesn't help them and they are still mentally but now also physically disabled?
I actually heard about this quite a few years ago, it was a story about one man in particular who used dry ice on his leg. They interviewed him afterwards and he was so happy, swimming laps in a pool with his one remaining leg
From what I could find this is a brain defect where the ''hated'' part is no longer recognised as belonging to the body. Like an USB your PC doesn't recognise and wants you to eject.
Terrible comparison
I know I don’t have the condition but as someone with a lot of others(Chronic, painful, and started in childhood) the amount of time I’ve thought about cutting out the offending areas isn’t small. Especially in a bad mood, so if someone had a brain problem and genuinely thought about/needed it that doesn’t surprise me.
Hope they can find peace in their lives, everyone deserves it.
Weird side note - the black market BIID surgeon in Mexico was the uncle of the founder of notorious gaudy leggings MLM company LulaRoe.
One of LulaRoe's shady practices is encouraging members to get sketchy discount weight loss surgery in Tijuana, where the founder has connections due to her uncle.
The uncle, John Ronald Brown, has a few documentaries & podcasts about him, as he had quite the iffy history of medical malpractice, which is why he was doing hotel room surgeries in Mexico.
There's a very specific and unmistakable irony in a shifty BIID surgeon also having a family member who started a large shifty clothing company 😅
What??? That is an incredible side note
@@AgeAgeAge 10/10 side note content for sure 👍
THIS is the kind of relevancy I want in every post labeled a "fun fact", as they often are not in any way fun and/or factual.
Holy shit….
I’m glad to see Simon still has control of this channel too, Brain Blaze and Into The Shadows are my two favorites after all.
What are you referring to? Did he lose channels
@@reellifeoutdoors2905he stepped away from geographics and biographics which are channels he didnt own. Due to a personal disputes after the passing of the original channel owner
I don't know if he owns "Into the Shadows" he definitely owns Brain Blaze. I was shocked to find out he was just a host for those three channels.
@@reellifeoutdoors2905recently he left Biographics and two other channels that were actually owned by someone else he just narrated. Biographics owner has a video explaining it.
@Nihil10999 damn. I didn't know that. I was wondering why I'd click on it and it would be someone else. Instant backout for me, dawg.😂
I learned about this in abnormal psychology class in the spring and it really challenged my view that I’m not a judgmental person. I had to put effort into being understanding.
Totally understand. I think people underestimate how much rational effort a mature sense of compassion often requires.
@@FalconAndTridentThen you have work to do.
Of course, though, everyone is judgmental. We need to be for our survival. Once you accept what is simply the
truth-that we are all judgmental-then you can begin to free yourself of unnecessary guilt and move on from that initial judgement to a more functional state of discernment.
You should use judgement and not let mentally ill people decide their treatment, specially when it involves permanently blinding themselves or amputating healthy limbs, are you d0000mb??
Oh, but you are a judgemental person. You couldn't stop even if you tried. And even if you did manage to stop judging people, you would soon find yourself dead. You NEED to judge people as a matter of survival. Thank goodness your conscious self isn't actually in control of it.
Last year fella in queensland here in Australia paid a newly immigrated friend to cut off his leg with a power saw. Not realising the legal implications but seeing that he could send money home to his needy familu, he agreed and they completed the grisly task. The DIID sufferer bled out and died before help could be summoned and the friend was charged with manslaughter, so sad
Oliver Sacks wrote about something like this in "The Man Who Mistook his Wife for a Hat." From Wikipedia:
""The Man Who Fell out of Bed", is about a young man whom Dr. Sacks sees as a medical student. Sacks encounters the patient on the floor of his hospital room, where he tells Sacks that he woke up to find a strange leg in his bed. Assuming that one of the nurses had played a prank on him, he attempted to toss the leg out of bed, only to find that he was attached to it. Although Sacks attempts to persuade the patient that the leg is his own, he remains bewildered in an apparent case of somatoparaphrenia."
I love Oliver Sacks’s books! He not only writes eloquently and explains in a way that both casual readers and doctors can understand, he also does it all with a non-judgemental lens seeing as he’s witnessed hundreds if not thousand’s of neurological brain disorders with their “bizarre” presentations in real life.
“The man who mistook his wife for a hat” is like case studies, but not written like a dry clinical report but instead with genuine compassion and an invitation for anyone to learn more, medical professional or not. It is filled with incredibly fascinating stories!
Hopefully this will not be too long. In Dec. 2003 my neck collapsed/broke severing and crushing nerves mostly based on my left. The surgeon done a fantastic job and with the aid of titanium plates, bone, screws I was repaired, but the pain in my left thigh was debilitating, my GP gave me a cocktail of opiates and other pain killers. The biggest killer for me was being told I can never work again. Dozens of scans, tests, x-rays took place, a neurologist checked my right thigh for nerve conductivity and found that normal, my left thigh had zero conductivity. Walking was slow but I coped with the support of my family. There was pain in the left thigh which was weird, often like ice needles akin to pins and needles but much more intense. Then more intense pain as heat, I could not make sense of it. I had other numb areas in my left arm and foot, these were numb and still are. I thought about whether the leg being amputated would stop the pain, I was told probably not, but as the leg was good except for the nerves it was unlikely. I had no wish to have the leg amputated it was the pain that drove the question. I gradually got used to the normal pain and endured the high pain. I then contracted cellulitis in my right leg and this was due, so the doctor stated, to my inefficient immune system. They prescribed antibiotics which I took, but they did not stop the infection. After 3 weeks and multiple antibiotics the infection was still evident. At this time my GP warned me that my lower right leg may have to be amputated. Thankfully in week 4 the antibiotics began to work. At no time had I wished for the removal of a limb, which made me think about the BIID sufferers that I'd read about in the early 80s. I was puzzled by the condition, but this post definitely cleared things up a bit. Mind you I had not thought about BIID for years, until I saw your post. Thanks for posting.
I injured my thumb in a wood shop accident back in 8th grade in the '80s and for a couple of decades the tip felt numb and tingly, though it did eventually return to feeling normal. Since it started with an injury I can't help wondering if it might have been something similar.
@gearaldbecker6015 It does sound similar. When the nerves are crushed and severed they do try to repair and some succeed, some fail.
This topic came up in my high school intro to psychology class, week 2.. I found the topic so distressing that i cut class and never went back to taking psychology. The notion made my insomnia worse. I wondered what would make someone think this option was rational and would i ever have that psychosis. I like your presentation better than how my class went about it. I think learning about it through you would have been less traumatic for me.
It is so sad to have these people out there with functional bodies who are choosing to get rid of them when there are so many of us born with disabilities who would give ANYTHING just to have working bodies. The mind can truly be a horrible enemy.
As someone who's had a lot of nightmares and fears of losing limbs (especially fingers - my brain loves to feed me nightmares where I lose fingers specifically, and it is so upsetting), this is a very hard video for me to watch, but it is also an important discussion . There definitely seem to be several different reasons people feel this way though, and for them to all be lumped into one diagnosis is potentially harming at least some of them. I peeped at the comments and saw several examples, like people who have depression and just want to harm themselves need treatment for depression for example. Here's hoping the more that's learned the more directed help people get for their specific needs, and that our healthcare systems improve and cultural stigma problems so people who have varying conditions (like depression) are able to actually get help before they reach this point.
This is so true, and with the growing ability to test for the neurological issue, I think we are close to the point of being able to separate those sufferers out and figure out what help the different groups need
I've had occasionally recurring (and disturbing) dreams aboug losing teeth for as long as I can remember. Not an overwhelming thing in my case, but it's interesting to hear about someone else with something sort of similar.
This is somehow more gruesome and terrifying than Simons True crime chanel. There's something about hurting your self which fills me with the chills.
I have 2 relatives who are anorexic and bulimic. They are emaciated, but are absolutely convinced they are overweight. What do they see when they look in the mirror? They have both destroyed their health. So terribly sad.
I really see how these conditions could relate. I started thinking the same thing partly through the video a disorder based on body image. Like weightlifters that abuse steroids or people that become obsessed with plastic surgery
I had a friend like that in 1980. Her teeth had rotted away to little black stubs from self inflicted vomiting and her eyes were sunken down into the sockets. She only ever ate the occasional jelly bean to stop from passing out then quickly put her fingers down her throat. She was in and out of mental institutions for years and eventually lost custody of her son.
BIID and BDD are different, they’d be suffering from the latter. Not the subject of todays video.
@@rosevelvet4357 Different for sure, but it'd be foolish to ignore the similarities. Treatments that work for one may very well be effective for the other.
@@rosevelvet4357you added nothing but confusion
I had this condition when I was a teenager. I had severe mental illness, and this condition was the result of it. I’m glad I kept my eyes and never went blind.
Documentary filmmaker Melody Gilbert make a great film about this condition in the early 2000's called "Whole" -- it's really fascinating and humanizing, and features some of the individuals mentioned here, and interviews that include some of these exact topics, like the fact that sufferers can identify the EXACT physical spot where their limb ceases to be "theirs" -- the border between "yes, that is my leg" and "that is no longer my leg and needs to go away."
Now I know the name for what I have. All my life I thought I was alone in this regard. Awesome-genuinely thank you.
Hugs
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I am sorry for your pain, but you are stronger than what you think !!!!!!!!
I can understand you in some ways.
The two part of my brain feel separated and act like two different people.
Needles to say is that I learned how to hide it since a young age.
1:25 - Chapter 1 - Discovery
3:20 - Chapter 2 - Is it all about sex ?
4:55 - Chapter 3 - Taking matters into their own hands
7:10 - Chapter 4 - Body integrity identity disorder
9:20 - Chapter 5 - Self mutilation
10:45 - Chapter 6 - Black market amputations
11:50 - Chapter 7 - An online community of wannabes
14:15 - Chapter 8 - Controversy
I can understand it. I had a huge foot phobia for years and the extreme fear, broken relationship with my family and sleepless nights made me wish I could just cut off my feet. I had regular panic attacks and didn't trust my family and friends. The idea of spending the rest of my life this way at some point was worse to me than the thought of being an invalid. Apart from the fear of the pain, what held me back was the knowledge that my phobia was in my head and I would still have it, even without feet.
I too, have a phobia of a body part. Belly buttons. Even writing this is irking me majorly. I've thought about getting mine removed because that would be considered cosmetic surgery, and possible from a legal standpoint. But that probably wouldn't deal with the feelings i get from seeing them on other people, so it probably isn't the best idea
I see a lot of comments saying "I would give anything to NOT be disabled," and I get the sentiment. But body dysmorphic disorders aren't a "choice." First we have to separate the people with body integrity issues vs people who want to be generally disabled. Yes, I agree that anyone who wants to be disabled as the goal definitely needs psychotherapy because seems to involve a whole lot of dependency issues. But for someone whose goal is the physical amputation, the disability is not even part of the equation. Of course an unintentionally disabled person would not wish it on their worst enemy and "give anything to be ___ again," because they don't have a body integrity disorder. It's like telling a gay person to just stop being gay, or a transgender person to stop being trans. It's not a choice or a lifestyle, it's just the way they are. If there was "another way" to "fix" being trans without a ton of invasive medical intervention I'm sure there would be plenty of takers, in much the same way BIID patients would take any functional treatment for their condition. But sometimes the only thing you can do to make your body right is to just... make your body right.
@@MadScientist267Very well said, you need to accept reality and play the hand you're dealt!
This also goes for people getting leg-lengthening surgery.
@@MadScientist267I'm asking this in good faith, I truly would like to understand your point. Does this apply to transgender people as well? What about people who get elective plastic surgery? I'm just trying to understand where the line is for certain people.
@@ValVonRhine You shouldn't even have to ask any of that, but since you did... Nutshell?
"Yes" 🤦♂️
@@MadScientist267considering the absence of your other comment, you said some questionable shit….
@@lazysylph3312 Because part of it was somewhat irrelevant and raw, yes.
Kinda sick of stupid.
In a perfect world, this could be treated by fixing the brain, instead of breaking the body. However, I guess for a lot of sufferers, the science just isn't there yet.
It's also way safer to cut off part of body rather than messing with brain. Even "just" antidepressants are absolute mess. Me and my friend at one point had prescribed same AD. She had to take six or seven to feel any effect, I took first half and had to immediately drop it, because my brain freaked out and I struggled to even breath or stay conscious (easily one of, if not the most, terrifying experience in my life, knowing it's because your brain fails to function and doctors couldn't do anything about it other than wait and maybe put you on ventilation with defibrillator on standby to keep repeatedly revive you until brain clears off AD if you end up hospitalized). My psychiatrist had to try out another two different types of AD before finding one that doesn't tries to send me into hospital. The point is, that even if we find way to treat it by affecting brain, there are still gonna be large percentage of patients who couldn't undergo it. No two brains work same, so making universal treatment is virtually impossible and it's not unlikely to never find way to treat it on brain level.
Except that wouldn't always work. They're often missing nerves that often stop where they no longer feel the limb is theirs. Fixing the brain wouldn't change that. Without those nerves, it is impossible for the brain to map it and realize it belongs to them.
Given BIID is caused by having an incomplete map or conception of your own body, the only treatment on the mental side would be to completely rewrite someone's sense of self into a more "normal" one
Personally, that sounds more horrifying to me than just losing a limb. Itd be like amputating someone's childhood memories or their favourite colour.
Not necessarily. Because of neuroplasticity, rewiring the body’s internal map of itself can in some cases be fairly non-invasive. The example that comes to mind is mirror box therapy for people suffering from painful or uncomfortable phantom limb illusions following loss of a body part. It may be such that it is possible for a similar type of therapy to be done to cause a brain to recognize the normal condition a healthy body part rather than stop experiencing imaginary aches and pains in a missing one.
It's interesting how so many of them seem to be of especially high intelligence and success, which I've noticed seems to tie to higher physical sensitivity. I've noticed with a small portion of skin on my thumb which I believe has mild nerve damage from how I have tended to hold things for years, where I can still feel it, but it somehow still registers as foreign to me, like cloth brushing over the rest of the thumb. I wonder if many suffering this have a similar, but much greater issue, not necessarily in the brain, but in the nervous connections to those areas of the body, resulting in a loss of proprioception, but not sensation or function.
I have this condition and I was asked to take some psychological tests to see the state of my mind and I can say I aced them all. A few averages and a lot of above average results
Continue making videos simon! Please!
I think you're talking about two separate things. There's a BIG difference between wanting a limb gone because it feels alien and wanting to be an amputee/physically disabled.
I remember something like this from Discovery Channel's Taboo series. This woman wanted to live her life in a wheelchair, no amputation needed, yet she also like hiking in the woods. It's a very weird psychological/neurological phenomenon, but I don't think it's in relation with gender dysphoria, since that's more hormonal-related during the gestation period of the fetus' development, IIRC.
That is...Not at all what this is.
i hated it when they talked about gender identity disorder and described it as your gender identity being *wrong*, because as a trans person, my gender identity is who i am and that is never wrong. dysphoria is different from whatever they were talking about, it’s just the pain and discomfort that can come from your body not matching who you are inside. we may be saying the same thing, but i just didn’t agree with the way they phrased it. i’m sorry for typing a giant paragraph in your replies 😭
I've seen that one too, though it's been so long I should probably watch the series again.
(p.s. for anyone interested in looking it up, it's NatGeo, not Discovery.)
Surprised that body mods havent come into this. Its not the same, at least all the time, but theres people who have had fingers, ears and noses removed by body mod artists. One UK artist got arrested a year or so ago for extreme body mods
A fascinating exposition of a problem few people are able to understand. Very thought provoking. The brain is an incredible thing, how mind and brain work together is endlessly interesting and before anyone judges anyone else, they should at least attempt to gain an understanding of the relationship of the physical brain and mental functioning.
My friend suffered fun this. He cut off his nipples, sewed up his naval, and tried to cut his little finger off.
Before this he did extreme body modifications to deal with the urges. Split his tongue. Split his penis. Got scarification, piercings and tattoos. He was one of the first people to get his eyeball tattooed.
Things got too much for him, he'd gone as far as he could do on his own, and eventually he left this world.
That's not what this is though.
Split his penis?? Are you sure he didn't just pierce it?
This physically hurt to watch!
At least most of them don't regret it.
That’s SO very tragic.. it’s like body dysmorphia on speed.. 💔
I love the latest editing of into the shadows, its perfect.
Why can't you combine the two approaches, if necessary? Make therapy and meditation a prerequisite to surgery for (6 months? A year? 🤷♂️) and then, if that doesn't work, surgery could be considered as a solution.
Lol I assume you meant medication, even though it still works as written. I think your proposition is the most reasonable stance to take, under the condition that there are no other observable mental conditions concurrent with BIID. The person must, in all other regards, be otherwise completely mentally sound in order to qualify for surgery.
@@yayhandles Stupid "predictive" text 🙄
Surgery should never be considered, and they should get therapy teaching them to cull intrusive thoughts if they become a danger to themselves. Disabling yourself on purpose is not valid, we all should be seeking to improve our ability.
@@jayce1850 Sorry, it's my body, my choice. There is nothing wrong with having a disability.
@@JuanPerez-hy7kzYeah if you were born disabled, or had an accident. (a REAL accident not a staged one) Becoming disabled on purpose is wrong, you were meant to have a healthy fully functional body. And even in birth/REAL accident disabilities, we should be working to develop ways to fix them and bring them back up to normal or better.
This is fascinating and quite bizarre. Great work with it, Simon, as always.
Wait, so in the last example he must have actually had a normal parietal lobe if he was fixed by therapy. That case sounds more like extreme self-harm than a body map that excluded his legs. (I’d suspect the same of the people who cut off their own finger but the problem was actually with a leg…? Or maybe it affected everything on the left side but the leg more than other body parts?)
I’ve heard of this before and it scared the crap out of me, but it’s good to know it’s a deformity and I couldn’t possible acquire it! Well, not unless I had a tumor in my right parietal lobe, I guess.
I wonder if mirror therapy would help form connections in the brain that it is their limb
I literally asked a neurologist this when he walked by. She said, "Possibly are you reading a peer reviewed study?" I said, "No, just a TH-cam comment." So, she's looking to see if there's completed or current study. We have patients and are short staffed. Until I find another way to distract her my case load is a bit heavier.
Don't make my rookie mistake 😢 I'm not a rookie. I knew better than to ask mid shift. Let my punishment be a lesson. Don't ask neurologists, nephrologists, or infectious disease practioners questions. They may get too easily side tracked or worse want to discuss it with you for most of your shift and the next if you'll both be working.
@@mandibailey9104Keep us updated!
Yes I was thinking this
i found this channel 2 months ago im a person who loves learning about things, the stuff that people dont think about be it crime murder or drugs and there effects love how these videos fully explain stuff to me in a professional and easy to understand fasion i learn alot keep it up 10/10 content.
Have an episode idea Simon. You should cover Danny Casolaro and "The Octopus.". Super intriguing stuff.
Definitely do an episode on this one!
I don't know what to make of this story. Dysmorphia or fetish or both or neither. Like so many things concerning the human condition, we need to study it to understand it better, but because it is a taboo subject, we ignore it. 😢
There just HAS to be a better option than amputation/deafening/blinding for this. Do you know what I would give to have been born with normal, healthy ears? I've had three surgeries, painful infections, and hearing loss that genuinely made me feel excluded from the world at large. My hearing is now considered average, but I still suffer unique limitations. The idea that someone would *have* perfectly good hearing and *want* to get rid of it enrages me, legitimate neurological problems or not. It's not a lifestyle, it's a disability that's made every day of my life more difficult.
Well, you don’t _have_ this neurological disorder, so of course it would seem nonsensical and incomprehensible to you.
@@xyz7572 it IS nonsensical and ridiculous IN GENERAL. Disabling yourself because you hate being healthy or like the aesthetic is not valid and should never be validated at any point going forward.
@@jayce1850 I do not dispute that it is a nonsensical and bizarre condition. What I’m saying is that to these people - with a neural abnormality that makes their bodies not recognize part of itself as belonging to them - this condition is very real, and very agonising.
One must filter out the people who display these sorts of symptoms because of extreme versions of OCD, fetishes or psychosis, of course, but when conditions like those have been excluded, there still remains a group of people whose bodies do not recognize certain body parts. I’m not saying we should amputate or disfigure them because of this, what I’m saying is that there _are_ real brain abnormalities and illnesses that make this happen to people’s intrinsic perceptions of themselves, and we need to take it seriously to be able to help them in their suffering.
@@jayce1850they don't hate being healthy and the don't like the aesthetics. Those that actually have it are missing the nerves REQUIRED for their brain to recognize it. Also being an amputee doesn't make you some invalid. And suggesting that someone that is an amputee os somehow inferior and invalid is EXTREMELY abelist.
@@xyz7572 Yeah, that's called sanity
After being made disabled by a car accident (not my fault) I just can't comprehend how someone would choose this as an option
I think the fault in this statement is thinking they are choosing it instead of being driven to it by mental illness.
I've sometimes thought that my life might be easier as an amputee. I definitely do not have BIID though. I just have deformities to right hip and knee, and my right leg is shorter than my left. Which means that when I'm standing, most of my weight falls on my bad leg. I could resolve the issue with a knee and hip replacement and surgical leg lengthening, but if it gets to the point where I have to do all that, I think I'd rather just have the whole thing removed and I'll just use a prosthetic that's as long as my other leg lol
It can be worthwhile if it helps your quality of life. People are unreasonably afraid of disability
@@Financiallyfreeauthoragreed. Though op should know that if they plan to go the route of prosthetic limbs, above knee prosthetics are significantly more difficult to use than below knee.
There was a show called "Mental" (think House but for psychiatric disorders, only ran 1 season) that covered this disorder.
is it any good? i’m a sucker for the medical side of medical shows
@@mmmmmmmmaria I enjoyed it. Each episode focuses on a specific psychiatric disorder. I compare it to House bc it is very similar in structure. It only lasted 1 season which is a bummer, so limited # of episodes. Maybe like 12 episodes. But I enjoyed it.
GD that was dark. I am struggling to remember the word for the sense that let's you know where your body is in space, like touching your nose...please remind me someone. But that alone would be hell for these people. Much less the self mutilation. I've watched pretty much all of the into the dark, and this is the only one that made me cry. I can imagine, but I can never know, the hell these people live through.
Edit: I found it. Proprioception.
If studies show that this is a real disorder, why is medicine not willing to help by performing a safe and clean removal or amputation?
The neurologic cause seems like a plausible explanation for some of these cases, but that clearly does not explain people craving blindness or those who are removing disparate body parts.
It's because when it has a physical cause, it's due to the nerves your brain uses to map itself and is required for a sense of self are just...Not there. These people know that the komb is theirs but that doesn't matter because their doesn't. Amd sometimes tattoos can help, but that is only if it's the brain have g the issue and they have the nerves. Without those nerves...Thatd be like someone that is born with the genetic condition where they can't feel amd telling its all in their head.
The human mind is too complex for its own good. The vast amount of horrifying mental afflictions we suffer is the price we pay for the intelligence we have….in some dark, twisted way. As someone who has suffered with bipolar disorder and PTSD for over a decade…I’ve come to see my brain as my own worst enemy. Instead of feeling grateful to have thoughts and feelings, I wish I thought and felt nothing at all because the thoughts and feelings are almost always bad instead of good. How do you fight against your own mind? How do you fight YOURSELF? These questions wrack my brain nearly everyday. Honestly, it seems like a hopeless battle to me. BUT….here I am….and I’ll still show up tomorrow, and the day after and the day after…..until….I don’t know.
I hope everyone is doing okay! Keep your head up!
It seems that amputation helps. I hope a better way is found someday. Especially eating disorders which are very hard to treat successfully and have a 25% fatality rate. I can’t imagine what these people are going through.
It’s called a lot of therapy.
I heard tattooing the affected limb helps, which should be mandatory if the case is severe enough to drive action as well as therapy to have them use it with the goal of making them rely on the limb more often, and removal should be barred completely.
@@jayce1850it really shouldn't be. Tattoos don't always help.
@@Insertia_Nameia At that point they need behavior therapy then to make them accept the limb as theirs in concept despite being unable to identify with it, so that they no longer see it as a valid option to remove it, just like how I learned not to consider my suicidal intrusive thoughts as a valid option.
That quote at the end, thanks for including that
Right at the end there. Exactly what I was thinking. What if they change their mind after the fact? I'm not a psychologist but its clear something isnt right in their minds. Therapy and antidepressants can work wonders. Anyone wanting to change anything about themselves, you gotta give therapy a psychiatry a shot first. Once you commit, you can't go back.
As someone who almost ended up in hospital after first half dose of AD (particularly type that was considered one with least amount of side effects). You also cannot rewire brain, since we still don't really understand how brain function and what makes us, well, us. Cutting off someone's limb is actually safer if done by competent surgeon than filling them up with psychofarmacs that will make their brain new butthole, since this seems to be born condition and thus not possible solve by therapy - you can make them get used to how their body looks like, but they wouldn't ever get happy and probably requiring ADs for rest of their life just to not quit on their life (which is worse. I was taking them, have friends who still take them, it feels like it's not even you anymore, aside of other things, those side effects are brutal)
I'm sorry my friend, Perhaps I didn't express my point properly. All I was trying to say was to exhaust every other avenue before hacking off your limbs or any other body part that is irreversible. Thankyou for pointing it out and allowing me to clarify. @@depressedTrent
My gosh, the sheer quality of your videos is astonishingly good! I'm always deeply interested in the topics you choose to investigate. I find myself slipping down the you tube rabbit hole, watching multiple video's and enjoying every one. 🎉
Im an artist, musician, and a martial artist. I can't imagine how or why someone would want to lose any of that...
Damn Simon, you just thoroughly explained something that I still can't get my head around. And now I can't get this video out of my head.
As a disabled person and as a trans person, I support these people and do see how their experiences are similar to mine. It's a neurological condition they cannot help anymore than I can help my disabilities
literally this!!!
You're crazy
@@yomama9538 crazy awesome B)
But isn’t it strange that there are surgeons unwilling to cut off healthy limbs but are willing to do bottom surgery essentially cutting off healthy sexual body parts for a pretty price. I find that so strange the difference between healthy limbs and healthy sexual organs. What’s the difference? Like you said it’s neurological disability that should be addressed over giving in and maiming someone with mental illness. I wish you the best and hope you find a way out of your disability. God bless
@Cheka_Check_Itout it's not "healthy" if it is causing a person this much disress and many mental health profesionalls agree that some people need said limbs amputated to live a healthy and happy life. That IS often the best way to address these illnesses as the brain doesn't have the proper mapping for said limbs and there often isn't a way to force the brain to recognize it as part of the body. The reason so many surgeons won't remove these limbs is due to the fear of being sued due to the possibility of the patient regretting it later in life, not because it isnt the right treatment. Same reason most surgeons won't tie an AFAB person tubes if they are under a certain age. There is also a different between a mental illness and a neurological disorder and what these people deal with is neurological. But keep talking about things you are ill informed on.
Also there is no way out of my arthritis aside from gene therapy which Christians keep trying to prevent.
Odin bless
Amazing script. Simon brilliant as ever.
As a disabled person, as long as they advocate for accessibility, go for it.
Being disabled isn't easy and I imagine these people know that
That does not seem ethical. What if a cure is discovered in ten years? There is a reason doctors must, “Do no harm” and this is one of the reasons. People sometimes have to wait for fixes because a solution has yet to arrive no matter how unpalatable that wait is.
It's complicated really, on one side there isn't a cure and perhaps waiting for one is a better option, on the other side, so many people might unalive themselves before a cure is found, thus making surgery the only option.
I’m disabled and so are these BIID sufferers too. The condition is causing them not to be able to live life properly. Hopefully the ongoing research into the insane supercomputer that is our brain will yield something and everyone can be helped without losing parts of themselves.
It must be awfu.
@@om3g4z3r0 please elaborate
@caroljohns1402 If I had cancer and you could definitively say a cure was 6 months away, I'd try to live till then but an unknown timeline for a cure does not help anyone and treatment might benefit them more than a cure.
Especially since treatments are unreliable and a cure might not happen.
Taking low self esteem to a whole new level, that is, a whole new lower level. I’d never heard of this. Horrifying.
This is a wild disorder. Like the mental version of Krokodil
You wanna know the fascinating thing about Krokodil? The actual active drug doesn't cause the flesh rot, it's impurities from the street cooking method that they make it with that do that, it could be made pure and thus not nearly as harmful. It's because the street cooks are morons and/or they don't care about the people they are hurting.
I have yet to see Krokodil in the wild. I have seen TranqDope in the wild. I'm interested in looking at necrotic tissue. I see necrotic toes and feet often. Typically, in homeless patients but also quite often in diabetic patients.
@@mandibailey9104I watched a doc years ago they showed a dude shoot up in his leg and you can see the bone and some veins, it was kinda gross but really interesting
Explain Krokodil to the masses. Not everyone knew what it is...😉😉
@@mandibailey9104go to Russia, you’ll find it in a few hours.
In your opening example it was ' ... an INVINCIBLE obstacle' Simon ... invincible ... not "invisible" lovey.
Changes nuance slightly.
Brilliantly researched though and I learned plenty.
I wonder if anyone thought to give these people antipsychotics ...the results may be suprising, specially when combined SSRI
This is what I wonder too. SSRIs like Prozac weren’t widely available until the 80s and 90s.
i have issues with proprioception (not biid) but i understand that sensation on a personal level - it’s so incredibly hard to even put into words.
Interesting how seemingly all legitmate and not at all a fetish cases relate to having a specific kind of brain damage. Or at least a miswiring.
It's probably not yet possible today, but there's pretty big hope for the near future with advancements in nanotech biological repair. Writing new neural pathways to confirm ownership of the limb would likely be akin to an irrigation system installation.
Knowing first-hand how much of shitshow are antidepressants and how we fail miserably at making them work consistently even after decades of development (I got prescribed same AD as my friend, she had to take at least six to feel any effect, I took half and almost ended up in hospital, needing four or five days to clear out any remaining side effects) and with fact how little we understand how brain actually function, messing with wiring of brain is incredibly bad idea.
I only knew about this being a thing because it was featured as a case in one episode of House MD, but I thought it was exaggerated for the sake of creating drama. Quite fascinating to think that this actually happens to real people, the thought of someone willingly becoming disabled sounds as counterintuitive as it gets.
my mom knew a girl, who was convinced & obsessed with 2 of her fingers on her left hand "weren't hers" and after she reached adulthood, she had them amputated (idk if she did it, or by doctors, no idea) & she is "normal" & happy ever since!
its a real thing & kinda crazy, but after they get rid of the "wrong limbs" these ppl are often times "back to normal", from what ive seen 2. hand (pardon the pun) but still, its real! i saw her without her pinky & ringfinger! totally normal women otherwise!
I would love to see Simon do a video on Sigmund Freud vs Carl Jung, what better shadows to explore than your own...
We don't have to understand something entirely to respect it.
After he had his lower leg removed he hopped for joy.
So interesting, and so sad.
I don’t have this, but have frequently fantasised about having numb legs because they are constantly in pain. I feel like it’s close enough (although psychological discomfort as opposed to physical discomfort) that I have some empathy.
Also, living with gender dysphoria is kind of similar. Times I have thought about attempting to perform my own chest surgery… obviously that’s not safe and not reasonable… but a 6 year waiting list and no end in sight to just talk to a gender specialist in the U.K. has been… hard.
Yeah, the waiting lists in the UK hurt me as well. And the medications have nasty side effects. Often I just want to end it, or do the surgery myself. But as you said, not reasonable.
I'm glad you too are able to speak about these things. It's far better than bottling them up... I don't know how I survived as long as I did, doing that.
@@LaylaSpellwind i Hope you are better now
@@terryenby2304 I'm not, every day sucks. But I'm trying to focus my mind on helping others, rather than worry about my own life.
Please do not perform your own chest surgery.
Dude what is that music you were playing it's beautiful and so haunting at the same time
The thing is if they want to become disabled by choice, they should have to go to therapy and have a plan to provide for themselves. People who become disabled through accident or illness didn’t choose it.
That's one of my concerns. Disability through birth or accident often means extra medical care and costs of living. These people should be able to show they can pay their way through such, not just become a societal obligation by choice. Save society funds for those who had no choice in their special needs!
@@FairbrookWingates Is having a disorder that makes you want to kill yourself for having a limb by choice? If it's severe enough and therapy won't work, then I think they have a right to get their limb cut off.
@@foolishlyfoolhardy6004 that isn't what i was saying at all. I'm saying they need therapy and if they still Choose to go through disabling themselves because they want to be that way they shouldn't then get to live off benefits. Also I know people who have tattooed their eyes as well and it went fine for them. That's also a different scenario, they went in to it Not expecting or wanting to lose their eyesight. If someone has amputation because of massive nerve pain and that's the only way to relieve it again a different scenario. If you wilfully go in to disabling yourself because you're mental and didn't get help or even if you did get help and still choose to do so that's a choice. its different you should be prepared to have someone take care of you and not become a burden to society. I have fibromyalgia and I'm diabetic i am in pain every day, some days are better some are worse, I still work. I pay my bills and i take care of my family. Luckily i haven't had to have anything surgically removed but with the issues i have its a possibility later in life. I certainly don't hope for it.
@@foolishlyfoolhardy6004 Eh, we'll agree to disagree. :) I'm a pretty strong advocate of "don't do stupid shit you know will mess you up". I'm also a huge advocate of getting people help *before* they do said stupid stuff though. Prevention over cure I suppose. Idealistic, I know. Mental health care is really, really bad most everywhere. :(
@@foolishlyfoolhardy6004 I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant if someone wants their healthy limb removed, don't ask society to pay for that surgery or your crutches after while you learn to walk with a prosthetic. I'm all for mental health care to fix/cure the desire to remove a healthy limb.
There's a guy in Canada that used dry ice to remove lower leg .......the lady that let someone put chemicals in her eyes to go blind was nuts
Ngl, I’m all for bodily autonomy. I could think it’s fucking insane to want to amputate a healthy limb, but it ain’t my body so it doesn’t really matter. If this is the only way they find relief then fuck it. They deserve to live their lives happy and on their terms. That’s just my 2 cents.
Letting mentally ill people mutilate themselves isn't a good thing
Fascinating information 🤔
I can see one possibility of sadistic corruption ,
Sadistic mutilations for money in enthusiasm to do the task 😮
This is crazy. I may really be disabled one day and I don’t want to be. I don’t want to depend on others. I have Rheumatoid arthritis and it has hit me kinda bad this year at 59 years old. I don’t want it. I have no desire to be down to where I can’t do much. I don’t want to be crippled and for my hands and fingers to be twisted up. I like to paint, sew and make things.
It is insane to want to do that to yourself!!
There are some incredibly stupid -people- here on third rock.
Yeah but they're just losing a limb, they're not asking to become invalid. Missing an arm or leg doesn't make you one amd what you have is NOT comparable to being an amputee. People really need to get over this abelist mindset that amputees are somehow inheritly inferior and incapable.
Just because another human's experience is different from yours, doesn't mean they are "crazy". It is a neurological disorder, so they are already invisibly disabled before they harm themselves. And I'd bet money that they would rather be healthy (without BIID) aswell. Nonetheless I am sorry that you are suffering from your disorder and wish you well!
Neither do these people want to feel like their body part isn't theirs? Wth, so judgemental lol
I love this channel so much, but the way Simon pronounced “guillotine” at the beginning just killed me 💀
Imagine being successful self amputating a limb but not getting quite enough so you’ve now got an inch of a lump that doesn’t feel like body. Oof.
I was not aware of the history and details of John money, can you please do a video of this case and the background of that case study of the experiments placed on the twins? Unless you have already I will look for the video on this matter.
I think more work needs to be done to make sure someone actually hs BIID before doing anything drastic. You might be surprised how many "medical professionals" are doing it with no true evidence tat the person truly has the disorder and is just disabling people willy nilly rather than looking for the underlying mental health. I'll note that at least one person had complext PTSD and was being actively abused when they were convinced to become disabled and is traumatized by that past.
I'm permanently disabled, not from anything done intentionally. I am also transgender. But I recognize the fact that these people do in fact have a disability. A condition to make them feel this way. And they deserve help. They deserve to feel safe and ok. Im not sure how we would be able to help them best, but I wish more research into options could be done so people could live happy lives. With or without the parts of their body that are uncomfortable.
The only part I have a problem with is the term "transable", I don't like it. But I understand there may not currently be better terms, and we may not find better terms.
I have BIID and almost everyone else with the same condition I’ve talked to doesn’t like ‘transabled’ either. I’m trans as well but it has nothing to do with my BIID and vice versa. “Wanting to be disabled” or “identifying as disabled” doesn’t define the experience at all either. The only people who really use that term are the people who use us and our struggles as a laughing stock for people who don’t care about understanding the condition and only need to make fun of someone to feel better about themselves. It’s really refreshing to see more people slowly becoming more accepting of mental illnesses including the more out-there ones like this. I understand the knee-jerk reaction that comes with hearing that someone wants to be blind or remove an arm but I really respect those who are able to move past it, do their own research, and take the time to be understanding.
Fixing a problem between the ears by mutilating a healthy body is commonplace in our mad world. I hope that one day we'll be able to fix problems in the brain better and stop with this horrific butchery. It's a miracle to be born with working parts, and a tragedy to despise them.
Such a bizarre illness. I hope they can find something to help these people. Pain of the mind can be torture, so can physical ailments.
As someone that knows I'm going to be in a wheelchair before I'm 50, I seriously hope they get some help. Like actual help not cutting their limbs off help.
Since it is usually caused by a neurological issue with no known treatment, psychological “help” usually does nothing. I get being pissed at people who would give up something you with you had, but most of the time their brain just can’t recognize it as a part of themselves and there is nothing that will fix them
@@haleyw5677 So then… Just deal with it? Nobody is ever harmed by possessing healthy functional limbs.
@@jayce1850 these people are harmed by it though as their brain cannot properly connect to the limb, these people risk their lives or kill themselves because of how much distress their limb causes them
@@jayce1850so you'd prefer they are miserable and off themselves because you make everything about yourself and feel uncomfortable about their actions?
Absolutely love these videos. Did he just pronounce the "L"s in guillotine though?
I'm transgender. The regret rates for people who have transitioned are incredibly low.
If you compare them to things like people who had kids, the regret rate is fifteen percent for having children. The regret rate for having a transgender surgery is about one percent.
Most common necessary surgeries have regret rates of about five percent up to fifteen percent or more..
I think it would be important to look into the people that have already tried removing their limbs and see what their rates are.
There will always be outliers.
Doctors do make sure that transgender patients are really serious. I had to have a minimum amount of therapy with a transgender specific psychiatrist who was able to prescribe me meds if she thought I needed them for other conditions.
Both my surgeons needed consultations before I ever underwent anything permanent.
I think a big part of helping people with this disorder would be treating them like it's real first of all.
And I think it would be a good thing to make sure that there weren't other options that could be done to migitate without the extremes of full amputation.
My partner is also transgender and an amputee from cancer. I don't say this sort of thing lightly because I know it's a pretty big deal to have parts removed.
Thank you so much for this comment! So many people don't understand the difference.
Suicide rate is about 40% and thoughts of suicide are about 75% it varies a little between studies. It seems regret is quite common.
@@poip202 have you considered that those stats are so high not because of regret, but because of people like you making their lives hell?
@@poip202you know those rates are for people who haven't surgically transistioned yet, right? meaning the people who are still experiencing the dysphoria from their birth sex? silly goose!
In my teenage years I was in a car accident and struggled with occasional electric shock sensations to my left shin, often leaving the surrounding area numb and it always happened when I would be sitting in class, distracting me. I wanted to remove that leg so bad. Last year I got a tattoo on that calf and even though it still happens occasionally, i love that tattoo too much lol