Shaun, NonCompete, Three Arrows, Thought Slime, Peter Coffin, Angie Speaks, Mexie, Chrisiousity, The Serfs... Probably NonCompete, though. Tons of relevant stuff re stochastic terrorism, good praxis, community organising...
I'm currently writing my masters thesis on the alt-right's use of humour as a means by which to set narratives, win debates and deflect legitimate scrutiny. Video essays and interviews like this are forming the bulk of my references, as I believe they're a chronically under-utilised source within academia. Thankyou so much for putting out content like this. These conversations are so valuable, and so necessary
@@nathandrake5544 I feel like if we say the biggest 3 then that's hbomb, Natalie and philosophytube who are near 300k+ subscribers . Then the biggest are Peter coffin, three arrows and shaun. Who are between 150-250k And then most of the others have less then 100k.
@@theamericantraditionalist8498 Did you mean to reply to someone else or are the just the type of lunatic who spams this comment on any Sarkar video? I'll guess the latter..
@itismeitisi thanks for proving that the diversity agenda is purely about replacing white people in their own ancestral homelands, meanwhile, this agenda isn't being pushed anywhere else in the world.
@@_frangipani_ Um anybody who sees safeguards for girls and women being eroded a bad thing. Natalie demands people believe that anybody like him who "performs" womanhood be legally recognized as a woman. Any man can now claim to be a "woman" and access prisons and shelters that used to house women only. That is dangerous and insulting AF to women. Please do something Contra couldn't - provide a definition of "woman" that doesn't descend into self-referencing (i.e., a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman) or refer to a nebulous feeling inside a man's head or some meaningless set of sexual stereotypes. I'll wait. And FYI I'm a member of LGBT who thought I had to transition. I fully understand dysphoria.
I’m very glad that the girl who exclaimed “I am a literal communist!” At Piers Morgan popped up in my suggest videos, plus she’s interviewing ContraPoints! Excellent! (Piers Morgan is such a tool)
I loved this! I'm also so jealous of Ash's vocabulary. Maybe it's normal in the UK, but I know of literally no one in the US who's as eloquent, except maybe poets.
A fellow TYT member recommended this interview because I was raving about ContraPoints' work on the TYT boards. Terrific discussion and so glad that I was directed to your channel. Subscribed!
15:26 Ash and Natalie discuss a fundamental problem with identity politics: various communities are being essentialized in terms of their interests for the benefit of wealthy constituents of those identity groups.
Inquisitor Absolutely. And that extends past identity politics. It’s generally systemic. A way to keep the masses fighting amongst each other so the wealthy and powerful stay where they are.
@@navi6981 Yes, right-wing populism and identity politics are two sides of the same coin. As long as politics is about abstract concepts like identity, the status quo will remain: the wealthy will continue to profit off conflicts between primarily imagined communities. We need to mobilize on lines of material inequality and fight for changes that raise the masses up.
HBomberguy, Philosophy Tube, and now Contrapoints within a month. Novara definitely just discovered leftube lol. I love it. Hopefully they can collaborate further because this is like an all time great crossover
This is the kind of discourse that I like to see. Prominent leftist figures talking about shit. Not to hold anyone up on a pedestal or anything, but personality does wonders for any movement.
Ash Sarkar, you alleviate my loneliness. That's exactly what you do. Can't emphasise enough what a good thing that is and how much it means to me. Enjoyed this - didn't know about ContraPoints - so thanks for the introduction.
I keep saying that people online that hate social justice have become the bullies and mean popular girls that likely picked on them in high school. Not one of them has proven me wrong.
Natalie makes a great point there at the 39:30. I distinctly remember YT comment sections being a *completely* irredeemable cesspool of immature garbage not very long ago. The mantra was nothing good could ever come from scrolling down on any given TH-cam video. That still applies on mainstream high-volume channels, but at least in breadtube circles that has changed for the better. YT comments are still a terrible forum for discourse, but at least the comments themselves have improved.
There is nothing new about radical feminists teaming up with evangelical right-wing Christians. In the 80s, it was over issues around porn and sex workers. They were TERFS and anti-BDSM, and a lot of other stuff. Perhaps they thought that these were issues that they could win on. But they didn't, and sex-positive feminism won, and will again.
@@lutherblissett9070 I was just talking about an internal squabble within feminism that has been going on for a while now, referenced in the interview. I wasn't talking about Fascists at all. I am not complacent on that topic at all.
@@lutherblissett9070 I think being positive about Terfs having a fundamentally unsustainable position is fair enough. Regarding more general complacency, of course we shouldn't be complacent about fascism and the state of the Left since the 70s, but there are also things to be very positive about with socialism making big gains in terms of mainstream discourse and popularity.
Alexis B Buffalo Bill was turned down for transgender survey its stated in both the film and the book the screening picked up he wasn't a real transexual.
@Alexis B. 'They'? You sound like an anti-sjw edgelord taking some random teen's tweets and extrapolating from that that all feminists are insane and evil. Listen to your bigoted self, and listen to the actual trans community. And all the non-terf feminists.
ContraPoints is great, The debate Natalie did with Blaire White was really interesting and is well worth checking out, As part of the "Speaking in the language of TH-cam" series you should try to interview Destiny (Steven Bonnell)
@@nr0802 Wasn't Vaush kicked out of Destiny's community for creeping? his video just seemed bitter, The debates i have seen Destiny tends to argue from a left to centre-left stance. but he is still a biggish name and would be a good interview. I'm sure Ash, Aaron, Michael or whomever was interviewing him would be able to pull him up on any points,
@@RobDW24 I agree(d) with you about him as a guest. I'll gladly watch that. And as far as the Vaush go, I don't have an opinion about kicked out part (didn't watch video he said is about that, one you probably are thinking about?) I'm referring to actual things Destiny said about left (Vaush did response to) and the attitude towards understanding arguments coming from left...
@@nr0802 yeah he got kicked out for harassing a female in the community, i saw the video and tweets Vaush was talking about, the tweets where mixed with views and sarcasm, from what i have seen Destiny gets annoyed when people attack his views then cant form their own arguments and just say read this book to understand (which is what he was saying the problem with the left is). That is also what alot of his viewers where doing on the night that video Vaush used comes from.
@@RobDW24 Again, I was referring *only* to Destiny's "arguments" as those were dismissive. (I only mentioned Vaush because there is where I ran into Destiny most recently, because I'm not following him anywhere on sm, and Vaush did offer good rebuttal imo) Do you really think suggesting a book is bad idea? And that it indicates inability to form an argument? I don't think so, that doesn't make sense.
@8:20 I’d think about this part of the history a little differently. Part of social justice TH-cam *did* speak the language of TH-cam prior to ContraPoints. I mean, go watch old Riley Dennis, Kat Blaque, ____ Green, and marinashutup videos. The thing is, they did it in a way that mainly appealed to young women’s sensibilities, which is and was great by itself. *But* it didn’t attract the cis het white edgelord crowd, except as harassers of said video makers. Then Natalie came in and, whatever your opinion, made stuff appealing to *that* crowd’s sensibilities. I hate when people diminish the former approach over the later. So it was an aesthetic change made target a different audience. I’m glad things have come full circle now with her having a more balanced audience.
This is my first video on your channel. Subscribed. Very intelligent interview with in depth questions. Thank you very much! Kind regards! Kat Blaque recommended you!
yeah, and I think it would be really important for better future of humanity to learn about that as soon as possible in educational systems, as an attempt to immunise future generations.
mark fisher said basically this in like 2013 with the vampire castle essay/article. twitter storms and "cancelations", liberal obsession with minutiae in *individual* behaviour and so on. he got a lot of shit for it, but he was right.
Excellent interview. Want to say, there's a lot of overlap in needs for women, both with and without a uterus. Especially in terms of rights and healthcare. When women start losing healthcare and rights it impacts all people society perceives as women or woman-like, including nonbinary people like myself, because the cutbacks don't just focus on uterus things. Our fates our tied.
Everytime I hear the phrase "dark enlightenment" I think of the painting "La fee ignorante" by Magritte, which I think is a brilliant visual metaphor of the movement.
Found the stuff about political anxieties expressed in the language of medicine and hygiene fascinating. This is is something very present in the diet and fitness world - think 'clean eating' etc. Not entirely sure what the significance of that might be beyond being a potent and convincing metaphor, politically, for the right, and in a more blandly neoliberal way for selling fad diets.
Beyond the metaphor, or maybe because of it, a political discourse have a powerful tool to dehumanize their opponent. Human minds are set to produce worldviews with the words, the vocabulary, they possess. Basically, when your enemy is nothing but a cockroach or a plague, you feel entitled to seek their destruction, or at least their social destruction (invisibility, denial of existence). This is why every fascism in the whole History has produce such vocabulary in their political discourses ; the most basic racist calls black people "monkeys" for that reason. This is why military training is so brutal in his langage : if you think that your enemy is as human as you are, and if you feel a plain empathy towards him, you don't kill him.
Yes, they could have taken that much further. I have often questioned the morality of other writers of the time. eg. Jack London and Joseph Conrad who are both considered to be liberals. It makes you wonder...
I lost my shit when I heard Ash Characterise the dark enlightenment as ‘sargon of akkad and jordan peterson’... That is completely wrong. They are classical liberals. the Dark Enlightenment is about rejecting the enlightenment through a postmodern lens. And yeah, Nick Land and Mencius Moldbug are the big names in the movement
Aleph naught It was. And I was around that part of the blogosphere when that was going on. On some level, everything going on right now and over the past ten years on TH-cam and with the alt right is just a watered down version of that. Like literally Steve Bannon read, and probably met Moldbug (Curtis Yarvin) and both are directly connected to Robert Mercer and Peter Thiel. Though Nick Land seemed to drop from having much relevance by then. I forgot what happened with him.
So articulate. Solidarity w trans community. Im a real feminist in my 60s and the main reason I will always be one is that I believe in equality for everyone.
This is evolution of YT at its best. The absolute nutters at the extreme polar ends of the social-political spectrum are being upstaged by more rational and well read/educated new wave of creators. The click baity nonsense of calling people names and the childlike "owning" brand of creators are being phased out as YT consumers discover more nuanced material. I am exited for this new era.
This was such a great chat, illuminating! Yay, excited to see a fellow South Asian here on the left 🔥🔥🔥 I am very proud haha! 👏🏾 I would love to see a chat with you and Angie Speaks here on youtube, she's a total badass!! Her channel is an absolute unique gem--she talks about spirituality, psychology, mental health, culture and art, as it is inherently counter to Capitalism and the governmental systems in their current status quo form. That's stuff often overlooked in online Leftist discourse, not to mention in the day to day life of many Leftists.
Brilliant conversation, I don't think I've heard the online political climate being discussed so accurately before. Ash and Natalie clearly have their fingers on the pulse
For the syphilis theory: Doktor Faustus by Thomas Mann. Ironically, that and The Picture of Dorian Gray are my favourite books. (But.....I am not sure about the predominance of syphilis in the meaning of Dorian Gray especially given the original, shorter version.)
I've had this sitting in my watch later list for a while. It was delightful! The optimism bit is a little hard to get behind, though, all these years later.
I'm politically ignorant but I remember reading the IDW Times article and failing to see the connection between these individuals. The only thing that seems to connect all of them is their "stand for open dialogue." But even this is false if you look at David Rubin and his tendency towards one sided conversation. I wish Natalie hadn't moved away from the faux roundtable discussions in her videos. I quite enjoyed those.
They 'stand' for open dialogue but that ends up being standing for fellow conservatives and grifting with third rate ideas and a total lack of self-awareness/self-criticism.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.4 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MN-p1DHjPtI/mqdefault.jpg)
We'd love to hear suggestions of who else you think we should interview. x
Interview shaun next please!
Destiny (Steven Bonnell)
Ollie from Philosophy Tube
Someone from zero books? It is a publisher, but their TH-cam channel is interesting in itself.
Shaun, NonCompete, Three Arrows, Thought Slime, Peter Coffin, Angie Speaks, Mexie, Chrisiousity, The Serfs... Probably NonCompete, though. Tons of relevant stuff re stochastic terrorism, good praxis, community organising...
I'm currently writing my masters thesis on the alt-right's use of humour as a means by which to set narratives, win debates and deflect legitimate scrutiny.
Video essays and interviews like this are forming the bulk of my references, as I believe they're a chronically under-utilised source within academia.
Thankyou so much for putting out content like this. These conversations are so valuable, and so necessary
I would love to read your thesis.
danny dizzy me too! It sounds so interesting
Wow! Good on you. Your work is so absolutely necessary too. Wish we could share in your findings once you are done. All the best of luck.
If your thesis becomes available to read I would like to read it
Novara Media has fully completed the Holy trinity of breadtube. I appreciate this.
Three Arrows, Peter Coffin, Kevin Logan?
@@NathanAFolefac don't forget NonCompete as well.
@@thesupremecatlord3188 and shaun the skull
@@nathandrake5544 I feel like if we say the biggest 3 then that's hbomb, Natalie and philosophytube who are near 300k+ subscribers . Then the biggest are Peter coffin, three arrows and shaun. Who are between 150-250k
And then most of the others have less then 100k.
Bet this wins Novara a few well deserved subs too.
"Avengers Infinity wars is the most ambitious crossover of all time"
Ash: "Hold my sickle"
Amy Falconer old meme but a good meme
*Our sickle
Ash and Natalie talking TH-cam politics: Video Goals.
What is Ash Sarkar's ethnicity, and is her ethnic homeland as racially diverse as the U.K? If not, why not?
@@theamericantraditionalist8498 Did you mean to reply to someone else or are the just the type of lunatic who spams this comment on any Sarkar video?
I'll guess the latter..
@itismeitisi thanks for proving that the diversity agenda is purely about replacing white people in their own ancestral homelands, meanwhile, this agenda isn't being pushed anywhere else in the world.
He's just another pitiful whiner, itismeitisi.
Great to see how afraid he is, though!
Fascism: the ideology of being afraid and abject failure.
@@theamericantraditionalist8498
You have earned me as a subscriber by getting Contra.
Yes!
You have summoned the Dark Mother. You have Power. I shall sub for you.
Kinky.
Well hell yeah. I wasn't expecting this video collaboration at all but I'm quite jazzed about it. Thank you!
Love you Natalie. Our dark princess of philosophy. 🖤 Love you too Ash. 💖 🤪 Such a great interview! 💋🔥
Indeed 😍 She is as beautiful as she is clever 💞 Natalie for PM!! ❤
Contra is a gaslighter extraordinaire. Google nykytyne2.
@@es8059 No, bullshit, even if true who TF cares tho.
@@_frangipani_ Um anybody who sees safeguards for girls and women being eroded a bad thing. Natalie demands people believe that anybody like him who "performs" womanhood be legally recognized as a woman. Any man can now claim to be a "woman" and access prisons and shelters that used to house women only. That is dangerous and insulting AF to women.
Please do something Contra couldn't - provide a definition of "woman" that doesn't descend into self-referencing (i.e., a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman) or refer to a nebulous feeling inside a man's head or some meaningless set of sexual stereotypes. I'll wait.
And FYI I'm a member of LGBT who thought I had to transition. I fully understand dysphoria.
@@es8059 Yeah nah sorry m8 but that is Terf logic.
Instead of Dark Enlightenment can we please call it the "Endarkenment"?
Endorkenment
Thanks, Ash for the introduction, what a wonderful human being.
She saids its okay to comitt politics violence. Why is she wonderful?
@@desnebula5699 All politics is violent; it's merely a question of to whom the violence is being done.
BC she doesn't have a UK flag avatar or ask bad faith questions. 💋
I came for Contrapoints but I am now subscribed. Amazing video!
My two favourite LeftTube queens 🙏
I’m very glad that the girl who exclaimed “I am a literal communist!” At Piers Morgan popped up in my suggest videos, plus she’s interviewing ContraPoints! Excellent!
(Piers Morgan is such a tool)
The Mycroft Stepping out of the EU now ist wrong
@Bobby Sternlicht communism has a definition and i dont think its bad in " a literal sense" like u say. a classless society sure sounds great
@Bobby Sternlicht Are you aware that Communism isn't about sacrificing Capitalists to the Gulag?
I’m trying to pay attention, I swear, but I’m so distracted by Contrapoints’ room.
I want it. So. Badly.
Does she have a red light in her window? That usually means a house of whoredom, I thought.
@@legalvampire8136 I think it's more pink
I loved this! I'm also so jealous of Ash's vocabulary. Maybe it's normal in the UK, but I know of literally no one in the US who's as eloquent, except maybe poets.
Really? I've always been shocked by how wide American children's vocabularies appear to be.
Natalie looks extra pretty today. Ffs success
A fellow TYT member recommended this interview because I was raving about ContraPoints' work on the TYT boards. Terrific discussion and so glad that I was directed to your channel. Subscribed!
"you can't start at the conculsion, and assume everyone gets it. You have to get there"
15:26 Ash and Natalie discuss a fundamental problem with identity politics: various communities are being essentialized in terms of their interests for the benefit of wealthy constituents of those identity groups.
Inquisitor
Absolutely. And that extends past identity politics. It’s generally systemic. A way to keep the masses fighting amongst each other so the wealthy and powerful stay where they are.
@@navi6981 Yes, right-wing populism and identity politics are two sides of the same coin. As long as politics is about abstract concepts like identity, the status quo will remain: the wealthy will continue to profit off conflicts between primarily imagined communities. We need to mobilize on lines of material inequality and fight for changes that raise the masses up.
Liked before I ever watched it.
Annoyed Dave that’s what people on the right do on Ben Shapiro videos
I love the whole interview; the questions and banter were all poignant and entertaining. Well done to both Ash and Natalie ~
HBomberguy, Philosophy Tube, and now Contrapoints within a month. Novara definitely just discovered leftube lol. I love it. Hopefully they can collaborate further because this is like an all time great crossover
Hbomberguy, then Philosophytube, and now Contra?! Yesssss
These are the only 3 leftubers we have; may they reign forever.
Still think Hbomberguy is a real wanker.
They still need to do shaun.
HBomberguy is just pathetic, ContraPoints is fine.
@@gabrielfraser2109 He's just a fucking rat look at him.
Beyond excited to watch this!!! 💖
double dose of the breadpill this morning.
Love contrapoints😭❤️❤️❤️😭
Yay ! Ash and Contra !🙆
Contrapoints = insta like. I have huge respect for this figure of the Internet.
Ash interviewing Breadtube-a late but welcome birthday present ! 💜
Happy birthday.
The perfect crossover doesn't exi-
Ash is such a great interviewer, so focused and casual at the same time.
Was not expecting this but I am absolutely loving this. Y'all are awesome!
This is the kind of discourse that I like to see. Prominent leftist figures talking about shit. Not to hold anyone up on a pedestal or anything, but personality does wonders for any movement.
Wonderful interview, Ash. And Natalie always has a sparkling personality. So, you've already interviewed Ollie and H Bomb, will Shaun be next?
natalie wynn on novara media *yay* ty
Ash Sarkar, you alleviate my loneliness. That's exactly what you do. Can't emphasise enough what a good thing that is and how much it means to me. Enjoyed this - didn't know about ContraPoints - so thanks for the introduction.
why have you gifted me this perfect thing
"There's only one white kid in a school in Leicester" Welp, Ash just identified me
I keep saying that people online that hate social justice have become the bullies and mean popular girls that likely picked on them in high school. Not one of them has proven me wrong.
I adore this intelligent conversation between two of my face outspoken women 💕💕
Top 10 Anime Crossovers of all time.
Or top 10 superhero crossovers of all time!
Genuinely looking forward to the death of these dull Anime comments.
THank u Contra for helping me find this channel!! So good to see a channel from a person in the UK :)
Ahhhhh love your content Ash! love that you got Natalie! Big fan for a while now.
Natalie is brilliant
Natalie makes a great point there at the 39:30. I distinctly remember YT comment sections being a *completely* irredeemable cesspool of immature garbage not very long ago. The mantra was nothing good could ever come from scrolling down on any given TH-cam video. That still applies on mainstream high-volume channels, but at least in breadtube circles that has changed for the better.
YT comments are still a terrible forum for discourse, but at least the comments themselves have improved.
Well, I'll never get into ketosis after this. Great work, both of you
An interview with Angie Speaks next please!!
really great interview. you both are so well spoken.
Nice one Ash, Contra
cracking convo, good content, i could have kept listening for another hour
Loved Ash Sarkar, she was awesome. Very amazing and super interesting interview! Loved it and subrscribed.
I'm crying! I love you both! Besos!
Y Besos A Ti Tambien. 💜
There is nothing new about radical feminists teaming up with evangelical right-wing Christians. In the 80s, it was over issues around porn and sex workers. They were TERFS and anti-BDSM, and a lot of other stuff. Perhaps they thought that these were issues that they could win on. But they didn't, and sex-positive feminism won, and will again.
@@lutherblissett9070 I was just talking about an internal squabble within feminism that has been going on for a while now, referenced in the interview. I wasn't talking about Fascists at all. I am not complacent on that topic at all.
@@lutherblissett9070 I think being positive about Terfs having a fundamentally unsustainable position is fair enough.
Regarding more general complacency, of course we shouldn't be complacent about fascism and the state of the Left since the 70s, but there are also things to be very positive about with socialism making big gains in terms of mainstream discourse and popularity.
Alexis B
Buffalo Bill was turned down for transgender survey its stated in both the film and the book the screening picked up he wasn't a real transexual.
@Alexis B. 'They'? You sound like an anti-sjw edgelord taking some random teen's tweets and extrapolating from that that all feminists are insane and evil. Listen to your bigoted self, and listen to the actual trans community. And all the non-terf feminists.
@Alexis B. I presume you have stats to back that up?
great nuance and many good points made here. thx for opening up the conversation!
What a complete pleasure.
ContraPoints is great, The debate Natalie did with Blaire White was really interesting and is well worth checking out, As part of the "Speaking in the language of TH-cam" series you should try to interview Destiny (Steven Bonnell)
Yeah, but he's not getting on the "the left" side's points with honesty
(See Vaush's recent video)
@@nr0802 Wasn't Vaush kicked out of Destiny's community for creeping? his video just seemed bitter, The debates i have seen Destiny tends to argue from a left to centre-left stance. but he is still a biggish name and would be a good interview. I'm sure Ash, Aaron, Michael or whomever was interviewing him would be able to pull him up on any points,
@@RobDW24 I agree(d) with you about him as a guest.
I'll gladly watch that.
And as far as the Vaush go, I don't have an opinion about kicked out part (didn't watch video he said is about that, one you probably are thinking about?)
I'm referring to actual things Destiny said about left (Vaush did response to) and the attitude towards understanding arguments coming from left...
@@nr0802 yeah he got kicked out for harassing a female in the community, i saw the video and tweets Vaush was talking about, the tweets where mixed with views and sarcasm, from what i have seen Destiny gets annoyed when people attack his views then cant form their own arguments and just say read this book to understand (which is what he was saying the problem with the left is). That is also what alot of his viewers where doing on the night that video Vaush used comes from.
@@RobDW24
Again,
I was referring *only* to Destiny's "arguments" as those were dismissive.
(I only mentioned Vaush because there is where I ran into Destiny most recently, because I'm not following him anywhere on sm, and Vaush did offer good rebuttal imo)
Do you really think suggesting a book is bad idea?
And that it indicates inability to form an argument?
I don't think so, that doesn't make sense.
3:50 - I agree with that; the coolness of new conservatism has passed.
Damn Contra looks pretty these days
Well done interview and good questions!
Thank you for this.
Oh man. I'm only a minute into this video and I know this is going to be sooooo good!
@8:20 I’d think about this part of the history a little differently. Part of social justice TH-cam *did* speak the language of TH-cam prior to ContraPoints. I mean, go watch old Riley Dennis, Kat Blaque, ____ Green, and marinashutup videos.
The thing is, they did it in a way that mainly appealed to young women’s sensibilities, which is and was great by itself. *But* it didn’t attract the cis het white edgelord crowd, except as harassers of said video makers. Then Natalie came in and, whatever your opinion, made stuff appealing to *that* crowd’s sensibilities. I hate when people diminish the former approach over the later.
So it was an aesthetic change made target a different audience. I’m glad things have come full circle now with her having a more balanced audience.
Thanks for this. Very enjoyable exchange. Really a fan of both these ladies.
contra looking sooooo pretty in this vid 😍
This is my first video on your channel. Subscribed. Very intelligent interview with in depth questions. Thank you very much! Kind regards!
Kat Blaque recommended you!
Wow - two of my favourite youtubers and I only found this now???
the bland enlightenment
Human pyschology really can be manipulated to cause suffering.
yeah, and I think it would be really important for better future of humanity to learn about that as soon as possible in educational systems, as an attempt to immunise future generations.
Omg contra looks so beautiful
Can’t believe I missed this! My two favourite political speakers
mark fisher said basically this in like 2013 with the vampire castle essay/article. twitter storms and "cancelations", liberal obsession with minutiae in *individual* behaviour and so on. he got a lot of shit for it, but he was right.
Great discussion!
I disagree on the point that Benny is not a fascist. He's absolutely a fascist when it comes to the Israeli Occupation of Palestine.
10:45 to be fair, "how can I make this entertaining" is a pretty good question to ask yourself when preparing a lesson even in an education setting
Excellent interview. Want to say, there's a lot of overlap in needs for women, both with and without a uterus. Especially in terms of rights and healthcare. When women start losing healthcare and rights it impacts all people society perceives as women or woman-like, including nonbinary people like myself, because the cutbacks don't just focus on uterus things. Our fates our tied.
Everytime I hear the phrase "dark enlightenment" I think of the painting "La fee ignorante" by Magritte, which I think is a brilliant visual metaphor of the movement.
Found the stuff about political anxieties expressed in the language of medicine and hygiene fascinating. This is is something very present in the diet and fitness world - think 'clean eating' etc. Not entirely sure what the significance of that might be beyond being a potent and convincing metaphor, politically, for the right, and in a more blandly neoliberal way for selling fad diets.
If you watch Nat's video (just search youtube for "contrapoints degeneracy"), she goes into quite a bit of depth on it. And it's fun!
Beyond the metaphor, or maybe because of it, a political discourse have a powerful tool to dehumanize their opponent. Human minds are set to produce worldviews with the words, the vocabulary, they possess. Basically, when your enemy is nothing but a cockroach or a plague, you feel entitled to seek their destruction, or at least their social destruction (invisibility, denial of existence). This is why every fascism in the whole History has produce such vocabulary in their political discourses ; the most basic racist calls black people "monkeys" for that reason. This is why military training is so brutal in his langage : if you think that your enemy is as human as you are, and if you feel a plain empathy towards him, you don't kill him.
Ohmygodohmygodohmygod yes!!!
You remind me so much of Dodie (doddleoddle) with your mannerisms, voice, personality etc Loved this video
Loved this! 💚❤
Your hot take on Dorian Gray is spot on and makes me miss studying English lit at my university
Yes, they could have taken that much further. I have often questioned the morality of other writers of the time. eg. Jack London and Joseph Conrad who are both considered to be liberals. It makes you wonder...
great conversation! thank you
Isn't dark enlightenment a thing by Nick Land and the NRx?
I lost my shit when I heard Ash Characterise the dark enlightenment as ‘sargon of akkad and jordan peterson’... That is completely wrong. They are classical liberals. the Dark Enlightenment is about rejecting the enlightenment through a postmodern lens. And yeah, Nick Land and Mencius Moldbug are the big names in the movement
Aleph naught It was. And I was around that part of the blogosphere when that was going on.
On some level, everything going on right now and over the past ten years on TH-cam and with the alt right is just a watered down version of that.
Like literally Steve Bannon read, and probably met Moldbug (Curtis Yarvin) and both are directly connected to Robert Mercer and Peter Thiel. Though Nick Land seemed to drop from having much relevance by then. I forgot what happened with him.
Aleph naught It's clear she meant to say Intellectual Dark Web. It's just hard to remember these silly names.
So articulate. Solidarity w trans community. Im a real feminist in my 60s and the main reason I will always be one is that I believe in equality for everyone.
Clicked because of Natalie, subscribed because I really enjoyed Ash's contribution to the discussion. Keep it up!
The most ambitious crossover of the decade.
This is evolution of YT at its best. The absolute nutters at the extreme polar ends of the social-political spectrum are being upstaged by more rational and well read/educated new wave of creators. The click baity nonsense of calling people names and the childlike "owning" brand of creators are being phased out as YT consumers discover more nuanced material. I am exited for this new era.
excellent mashup. two brilliant and excellent speakers
I see some nice Verso books on that shelf!
YAAAAAAAASSSS!
This was such a great chat, illuminating! Yay, excited to see a fellow South Asian here on the left 🔥🔥🔥 I am very proud haha! 👏🏾
I would love to see a chat with you and Angie Speaks here on youtube, she's a total badass!! Her channel is an absolute unique gem--she talks about spirituality, psychology, mental health, culture and art, as it is inherently counter to Capitalism and the governmental systems in their current status quo form. That's stuff often overlooked in online Leftist discourse, not to mention in the day to day life of many Leftists.
Brilliant conversation, I don't think I've heard the online political climate being discussed so accurately before. Ash and Natalie clearly have their fingers on the pulse
FILL UP COMRADES TODAY WE DINE ON BREAD
For the syphilis theory: Doktor Faustus by Thomas Mann. Ironically, that and The Picture of Dorian Gray are my favourite books. (But.....I am not sure about the predominance of syphilis in the meaning of Dorian Gray especially given the original, shorter version.)
I've had this sitting in my watch later list for a while. It was delightful! The optimism bit is a little hard to get behind, though, all these years later.
I'm politically ignorant but I remember reading the IDW Times article and failing to see the connection between these individuals. The only thing that seems to connect all of them is their "stand for open dialogue." But even this is false if you look at David Rubin and his tendency towards one sided conversation. I wish Natalie hadn't moved away from the faux roundtable discussions in her videos. I quite enjoyed those.
I too like Natalie's characters having arguments.🙂
They 'stand' for open dialogue but that ends up being standing for fellow conservatives and grifting with third rate ideas and a total lack of self-awareness/self-criticism.
wow literally my two heroes!!
This discussion is fucking awesome
Two of my fav ladies. Ash is BAE and Nat is BAE.