How lovely. You know when you first hear this piece of music you might well think its the most beautiful music in the world and yeah, that's how young love feels :) Presumably its because Strauss really managed to convey the disorientation involved :)
Yes ! I used to hear excerpts of this on classical radio as a kid, and was always memorized by it before I knew what it was. Its magical, and right out of the twighlight zone. Paul
Just...wow! I've wondered for 20 years how the "silver rose" sound was created in Der Rosenkavalier. I remember when I first heard it "shimmer" like that and was astonished - as I was for the opening of Parsifal. Thankyou so much.
Respighi also used this sonority in his "Church Windows" 4th movement after the big organ solo. I've always loved that passage and borrowed a bit of it from my own "Towers Of Light" composition.
Yes, one of the most ethereally beautiful passages in Strauss, and you describe it well. Another suggestion I have is the Act I prelude from Lohengrin. I think it's a small masterpiece. If you choose it, any part of it would suffice. / I know you've done Mahler already, but one of my favorite moments comes near the end of Symphony 4, Second movement, when the 'sun breaks through' right after the basses descend to their lowest point, Mahler suddenly brings in harp (I think) and clarinets, then strings. Enjoying the series so far!
The finale of Act I of Lohengrin is too brilliant for words. He combines 5 voices, a full chorus, and a full orchestra. How he did it is too much for me to fathom.
The modern concert harp is indeed a whole world unto itself. It has 47 strings, each of which must be tuned individually, and the instrument is tuned in Cb major, which is the key it's in when no pedals are applied. All but three of the strings can be adjusted by the pedals so that (say) a Cb string can also produce C-natural and C#, and that change applies to all C's at that point. (So you can't have C-natural and C# at once, but you can have C# and Db simultaneously. And unless the player has seven feet the composer needs to give a little time for pedal changes.) The C strings are colored red and the F's blue, so the player can find where they are. Normally each hand plays up to four notes at once, the pinky not typically being used. It's a whole different way of thinking for an orchestrator who is used to the piano.
Very nice of you David to explain these orchestral marvels to the music lovers who might be intimidated by these huge scores or lack the knowledge to navigate them. One orchestral effect that intrigued me for years was the swirls at the beginning of Door 6 in Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle. Bartok had such a skill for strange instrument combinations and colors!
Thank you so much yet again for this video Dave, and this series - I've long wanted to start learning about orchestration, and these videos are perfect! It was the Presentation of the Rose which first got me hooked on 'Der Rosenkavalier', and Richard Strauss in general - the orchestration caught my ear, but the main thing which surprised me was the harmony, Strauss just using the neighbouring chromatic chords for this passage (A flat and G flat around G) but then throwing in an E major chord on the upbeat of the next bar, for good measure. I know you've been inundated with suggestions, but I hope you can forgive me for not being able to hold off! A few excerpts immediately spring to mind (I've tried to keep slightly off the beaten path - sorry if they are unviable): 1) The two eight-bar ritornelli after the solo saxophone altissimo As (concert Cs) in the first movement of Jacques Ibert's 'Concertino da Camera'. It has boggled my mind for years how Ibert can make eleven instruments sound so thick in texture, especially given that the strings are only one on a part - and yet each instrument's line is almost crystal clear. 2) The final slide into E Major (Paolo's "Ti trarrò") from Act IV Part ii of Riccardo Zandonai's 'Francesca da Rimini'. The cello, and then tenor, melody is clear, but underneath (somewhat like the Mahler 4 excerpt, but not quite) the music just shimmers forward - similarly to the Act I love duet (e.g. under the phrase of horn and oboe interplay). I don't think many people rate 'Francesca da Rimini' that highly, but I love it, and feel that there are many "How on earth did he do that?" moments throughout the whole work (structurally and harmonically as well as timbrally). 3) The final statement of the theme from Max Reger's 'Variations and Fugue on a Theme of Mozart'. I was amazed when I realised that he, like in Mahler's Fourth, had not included any low brass, given the thickness of the texture (one of Reger's hit-and-miss characteristics; for me in this piece it is a hit). Almost in an opposite way, the first variation has a transparency which belies the workout Reger gives to each of the instruments. 4) The ending of the final statement of the B theme from the first movement, 'Promenade', of Peggy Glanville-Hicks's 'Etruscan Concerto'. Again, wonderfully lush textures for a chamber orchestra, and very varied colours even when the entire ensemble stays in such a high register for such a long period of time. This would have been my addition to the talks on programmatic piano-and-orchestra works, but I might be biased as an Australian! Also, it may be unsuitable for such a video, but another jaw-dropping moment for me came from Ravel (whom many have mentioned), but not from an orchestral work: from the cello's harmonic pizzicati in the last of the 'Chansons Madécasses'. At first I thought that one of the players had been asked to play a drum, and was stunned when I looked at the score. OK, that's me done - sorry for the long comment!
Fascinating, David. I know you are prepared to give Delius the time of day, and I think one of the most evocative orchestral textures I know is in Sea Drift, when the narrator describes going down to the beach at night, especially where the baritone sings ' the white arms out in the breakers, tirelessly tossing, I with bare feet, a child, the wind wafting my hair, listened long and long.' Somehow Delius gives us not just the sea, but the sea at night with a wind blowing onshore. Maybe worth exploring.
I also note that Strauss begins the motif on the up beat, which gives it a less grounded effect than if it began with the measure, contributing to the ethereal quality.
Some moments/sonorities I'd like to see: Almost no composer is as distinctively pungent in his orchestration/voicing as Stravinsky. That piano/winds chord that opens (and punctuates) the first movement of Symphony of Psalms might be good to do. One Mahler moment I'd like to see is the climax of the 10th Symphony (1st movement, if that needs to be said). You know, the part where it sounds like the whole orchestra turns into a giant nightmarish pipe organ, and then builds up these apocalyptic dissonant chords that leave that high trumpet hanging in the air afterwards. It might be fun to do some Bernard Hermann. His writing for strings in Psycho is an obvious choice. But I love the sounds he uses in Vertigo. I particularly love the transition in the title sequence from the nervous faster swirling motif to where it broadens out and you get the Wagnerian chords in the low brass while the strings play out the swirly stuff in more romantic mode;
Hi David, thanks so much for this series, I'm learning so much. Since its launch, for some reason I've been reminded of two of Britten's works which have always affected me deeply, and which I have always been fascinated by how they have been constructed. One is the opening of the violin concerto, and how Britten manages to launch and then control the work by means of the ominous timpani/cymbal rhythm at the start, then passes it to the strings, and leads on to the the meltingly romantic entrance of the soloist; and the second work is the opening of the First Sea Interlude from Peter Grimes, specifically how Britten generates that amazing, ethereal, opening. Perhaps, at some distant future stage, they would be worthy of consideration for discussion?
The Violin Concerto I love, but that's not a topic for a series about individual sounds and moments. The first Sea Interlude is quite possible. Thanks for the suggestions.
Funny thing is, when I went to see the Rosenkavalier for the first time in real life and complete, I was only told beforehand how beautiful the Trio in Act 3 would be. However, I walked out mesmerized by the presentation scene in Act 2 and the tenor aria in Act 1.(Although, frankly speaking, I don't really care for the Rose-motive, I fell in love with the melodic lines in those scenes). I loved the link you showed with Respighi!
Thank you so much, David! That was beyond wonderful! And, due to your encyclopedic knowledge of classical music, I was so intrigued with the connection to the Respighi piece. By the way, does that example fall under Stravinsky's notion that "great composers STEAL!"??? I think this series is marvelous. I always look forward to your daily posts. Keep 'em coming!
Here is my suggestion: the final minute of the second movement of Walton's Symphony No. 2. I would like to see how this crescendo/diminuendo, leaving a soft string chord at the very end is accomplished. You probably have no interest in something so far outside the mainstream, but I think this work is highly underrated, and you can do something about it.
I'm always agape at the sound Strauss manages to get out of the very limited forces at his disposal in the opera Ariadne. Sheer wizardry. I can't really figure it out even with full score though I think some of it has to do with how he uses that lowly parlor harmonium.
Sorry, I seem to be stuck on Strauss; but another sonority that intrigues me is the end of Salome, where she is presented with the head of John the Baptist. This is some of the most spine tingling music I have ever heard. Perhaps fodder for a future installment.
Doesn't Messiaen use this kind of effect in parts of his Turangalila Symphony? The VI Jardin movement... admittedly different instrumentatiion but ethereal dissonance against a lyrical passage?
Maybe I'm too extreme, but Strauss without the acquaintance of Von Hoffmansthal would not have even achieved the heights of his compositional output which are highly appreciated.
This is shaping up to be an excellent series of videos. Thanks again for your efforts to educate and entertain us.
How lovely. You know when you first hear this piece of music you might well think its the most beautiful music in the world and yeah, that's how young love feels :) Presumably its because Strauss really managed to convey the disorientation involved :)
Thanks! We saw Rosenkavalier last night in Santa Fe and were trying to figure out how those chords worked and why they were so amazing!
Yes ! I used to hear excerpts of this on classical radio as a kid, and was always memorized by it before I knew what it was. Its magical, and right out of the twighlight zone.
Paul
Just...wow! I've wondered for 20 years how the "silver rose" sound was created in Der Rosenkavalier. I remember when I first heard it "shimmer" like that and was astonished - as I was for the opening of Parsifal. Thankyou so much.
Respighi also used this sonority in his "Church Windows" 4th movement after the big organ solo. I've always loved that passage and borrowed a bit of it from my own "Towers Of Light" composition.
Yes, one of the most ethereally beautiful passages in Strauss, and you describe it well. Another suggestion I have is the Act I prelude from Lohengrin. I think it's a small masterpiece. If you choose it, any part of it would suffice. / I know you've done Mahler already, but one of my favorite moments comes near the end of Symphony 4, Second movement, when the 'sun breaks through' right after the basses descend to their lowest point, Mahler suddenly brings in harp (I think) and clarinets, then strings. Enjoying the series so far!
The finale of Act I of Lohengrin is too brilliant for words. He combines 5 voices, a full chorus, and a full orchestra. How he did it is too much for me to fathom.
The modern concert harp is indeed a whole world unto itself. It has 47 strings, each of which must be tuned individually, and the instrument is tuned in Cb major, which is the key it's in when no pedals are applied. All but three of the strings can be adjusted by the pedals so that (say) a Cb string can also produce C-natural and C#, and that change applies to all C's at that point. (So you can't have C-natural and C# at once, but you can have C# and Db simultaneously. And unless the player has seven feet the composer needs to give a little time for pedal changes.) The C strings are colored red and the F's blue, so the player can find where they are. Normally each hand plays up to four notes at once, the pinky not typically being used. It's a whole different way of thinking for an orchestrator who is used to the piano.
Loving this series.
Very nice of you David to explain these orchestral marvels to the music lovers who might be intimidated by these huge scores or lack the knowledge to navigate them. One orchestral effect that intrigued me for years was the swirls at the beginning of Door 6 in Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle. Bartok had such a skill for strange instrument combinations and colors!
That's very interesting. I'll have to look into that!
Thank you so much yet again for this video Dave, and this series - I've long wanted to start learning about orchestration, and these videos are perfect! It was the Presentation of the Rose which first got me hooked on 'Der Rosenkavalier', and Richard Strauss in general - the orchestration caught my ear, but the main thing which surprised me was the harmony, Strauss just using the neighbouring chromatic chords for this passage (A flat and G flat around G) but then throwing in an E major chord on the upbeat of the next bar, for good measure.
I know you've been inundated with suggestions, but I hope you can forgive me for not being able to hold off! A few excerpts immediately spring to mind (I've tried to keep slightly off the beaten path - sorry if they are unviable):
1) The two eight-bar ritornelli after the solo saxophone altissimo As (concert Cs) in the first movement of Jacques Ibert's 'Concertino da Camera'. It has boggled my mind for years how Ibert can make eleven instruments sound so thick in texture, especially given that the strings are only one on a part - and yet each instrument's line is almost crystal clear.
2) The final slide into E Major (Paolo's "Ti trarrò") from Act IV Part ii of Riccardo Zandonai's 'Francesca da Rimini'. The cello, and then tenor, melody is clear, but underneath (somewhat like the Mahler 4 excerpt, but not quite) the music just shimmers forward - similarly to the Act I love duet (e.g. under the phrase of horn and oboe interplay). I don't think many people rate 'Francesca da Rimini' that highly, but I love it, and feel that there are many "How on earth did he do that?" moments throughout the whole work (structurally and harmonically as well as timbrally).
3) The final statement of the theme from Max Reger's 'Variations and Fugue on a Theme of Mozart'. I was amazed when I realised that he, like in Mahler's Fourth, had not included any low brass, given the thickness of the texture (one of Reger's hit-and-miss characteristics; for me in this piece it is a hit). Almost in an opposite way, the first variation has a transparency which belies the workout Reger gives to each of the instruments.
4) The ending of the final statement of the B theme from the first movement, 'Promenade', of Peggy Glanville-Hicks's 'Etruscan Concerto'. Again, wonderfully lush textures for a chamber orchestra, and very varied colours even when the entire ensemble stays in such a high register for such a long period of time. This would have been my addition to the talks on programmatic piano-and-orchestra works, but I might be biased as an Australian!
Also, it may be unsuitable for such a video, but another jaw-dropping moment for me came from Ravel (whom many have mentioned), but not from an orchestral work: from the cello's harmonic pizzicati in the last of the 'Chansons Madécasses'. At first I thought that one of the players had been asked to play a drum, and was stunned when I looked at the score. OK, that's me done - sorry for the long comment!
Thank you so much for this - very informative and helpful, and wonderfully presented.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Fascinating! I needed that. I think I’ll have a sip of champagne.
Fascinating, David. I know you are prepared to give Delius the time of day, and I think one of the most evocative orchestral textures I know is in Sea Drift, when the narrator describes going down to the beach at night, especially where the baritone sings ' the white arms out in the breakers, tirelessly tossing, I with bare feet, a child, the wind wafting my hair, listened long and long.' Somehow Delius gives us not just the sea, but the sea at night with a wind blowing onshore. Maybe worth exploring.
This is a fun series. Thank you.
Thanks, Dave. You are the best.
I also note that Strauss begins the motif on the up beat, which gives it a less grounded effect than if it began with the measure, contributing to the ethereal quality.
Some moments/sonorities I'd like to see:
Almost no composer is as distinctively pungent in his orchestration/voicing as Stravinsky. That piano/winds chord that opens (and punctuates) the first movement of Symphony of Psalms might be good to do.
One Mahler moment I'd like to see is the climax of the 10th Symphony (1st movement, if that needs to be said). You know, the part where it sounds like the whole orchestra turns into a giant nightmarish pipe organ, and then builds up these apocalyptic dissonant chords that leave that high trumpet hanging in the air afterwards.
It might be fun to do some Bernard Hermann. His writing for strings in Psycho is an obvious choice. But I love the sounds he uses in Vertigo. I particularly love the transition in the title sequence from the nervous faster swirling motif to where it broadens out and you get the Wagnerian chords in the low brass while the strings play out the swirly stuff in more romantic mode;
Hi David, thanks so much for this series, I'm learning so much. Since its launch, for some reason I've been reminded of two of Britten's works which have always affected me deeply, and which I have always been fascinated by how they have been constructed. One is the opening of the violin concerto, and how Britten manages to launch and then control the work by means of the ominous timpani/cymbal rhythm at the start, then passes it to the strings, and leads on to the the meltingly romantic entrance of the soloist; and the second work is the opening of the First Sea Interlude from Peter Grimes, specifically how Britten generates that amazing, ethereal, opening. Perhaps, at some distant future stage, they would be worthy of consideration for discussion?
The Violin Concerto I love, but that's not a topic for a series about individual sounds and moments. The first Sea Interlude is quite possible. Thanks for the suggestions.
Funny thing is, when I went to see the Rosenkavalier for the first time in real life and complete, I was only told beforehand how beautiful the Trio in Act 3 would be. However, I walked out mesmerized by the presentation scene in Act 2 and the tenor aria in Act 1.(Although, frankly speaking, I don't really care for the Rose-motive, I fell in love with the melodic lines in those scenes). I loved the link you showed with Respighi!
Very gamalan-like, rhythmically, to me; reminds me of portions of Messian's Turangalila Symphony.
Thank you so much, David! That was beyond wonderful! And, due to your encyclopedic knowledge of classical music, I was so intrigued with the connection to the Respighi piece. By the way, does that example fall under Stravinsky's notion that "great composers STEAL!"??? I think this series is marvelous. I always look forward to your daily posts. Keep 'em coming!
I would add to Stravinsky dictum this corollary: "Great composers only speak for themselves, especially when generalizing."
ha...that Respighi bit has inspired J Williams's film-music so much:-)
Here is my suggestion: the final minute of the second movement of Walton's Symphony No. 2. I would like to see how this crescendo/diminuendo, leaving a soft string chord at the very end is accomplished. You probably have no interest in something so far outside the mainstream, but I think this work is highly underrated, and you can do something about it.
In addition to Respighi, have you noticed that George Lloyd also references the “Silver Rose” motif in the slow movement of his 7th Symphony?
I hadn't, but I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip!
How about "Heil dir Sonne" from "Siegfried"?
I'm always agape at the sound Strauss manages to get out of the very limited forces at his disposal in the opera Ariadne. Sheer wizardry. I can't really figure it out even with full score though I think some of it has to do with how he uses that lowly parlor harmonium.
and it's a funny opera too
Sorry, I seem to be stuck on Strauss; but another sonority that intrigues me is the end of Salome, where she is presented with the head of John the Baptist. This is some of the most spine tingling music I have ever heard. Perhaps fodder for a future installment.
Doesn't Messiaen use this kind of effect in parts of his Turangalila Symphony? The VI Jardin movement... admittedly different instrumentatiion but ethereal dissonance against a lyrical passage?
You should do one on the Ring Cycle...of course it would be a 37 hour 21 minute long video 🤣
Maybe I'm too extreme, but Strauss without the acquaintance of Von Hoffmansthal would not have even achieved the heights of his compositional output which are highly appreciated.