I compose and arrange for a five-trumpet big band. For me in shout chorus, you heard the difference high register. But there is so much fun stuff to experiment with an extra player! The problem is when you are the fifth player and the other arrangers give you all the extra job... and you finally play 2 times more than the rest of the section! 😆
Hi Elliot, your video covered 95% of writing for 5 trumpets. The only bandleader I've come across who writes differently is Bob Florence. He used 5 trumpets in his band and generally wrote all 5 within an octave (no doubling of the octave). Having analysed his writing, he seems to use a lot of 11th's even when the harmony doesn't indicate their presence as a "soft" tone, a bit like the fifth.
Thanks for this video! As someone more familiar with tiny horn sections from pop or ska bands (and also struggling with just four or five "mouths to feed" in gigging bands...), I'm always prone to wondering if big bands really need to be _that_ big... :D Those A/B comparisons using your professional recordings are especially valuable!
Can you talk more about the actual way you arrange for them. I.e. if writing for 5, do you exclusively harmonised 1-4 and put 5 down the octave. Or do you use 5 part harmonies? Likewise, if you were writing 5th parts for something that was only originally written for 4, what notes would you give 5th? (Assuming you can’t change the other 4 parts).
Great video, thank you. I agree that it was difficult to hear any real difference with the 5th trumpet in your example. But could that be because the voicing was in the low range? What if the additional voicing was higher, and boosted the lead part?
Elliot, Thanks again. I have a question about intervals or chord tones played by lead trumpet and lead trombone.When you don't double the trumpets an octave lower in the trombones, , is there a cardinal rule about the chordal interval between the lead trumpet note and the and the first trombone note? wholestep ok? . What choices are available to voice/harmonize other notes in the lead trombone of course within the same chord when playing the same chord as trumpets.? Thanks
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thanks, like you say, videos are great for scratching the surface, getting your feet wet, and a lot of other cliches, but if someone wants to really learn something about writing music, there is no substitute for listening, score study and reading good books on the subject. I wrote this particular book after 55 of writing songs and arrangements for singers and not seeing any books on the market that dealt with this specific topic. Sadly, most jazz musicians look down on singers. I've been lucky to work with many of the best and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Singers tell stories in ways that instrumentalists can't. An arranger who understands this and appreciates it is already ahead of the game.
All the examples are great, I especially liked being able to hear the trumpets in isolation as well. I was interested though in that scenario you described where there is a full trumpet section while the 5th trumpet plays in unison with a sax and trombone. If you could point to any examples songs I could search for that employ 5 trumpets in a way that you see as worthy of the hassle, I'm certainly curious. Also, now I want to hear what that terrible french-horn like instrument sounds like :D
In a 4-player section, the trumpets will typically stand (Rhythm)-2-1-3-4 (or 4-1-2-3 if 4th is the solo chair). In a 5-player section, is there a default order or does it largely depend on how each part primarily functions?
That's a really interesting idea. Honestly, I haven't written any big band music with a 5 trombone section, or with tuba. But I know a couple of great composers who have written for those instrumentations extensively. Maybe I could ask one to make a guest tutorial!
Fantastic! Thank you! If I may, how do you pay your big band? Per rehearsal? Concert? Month? I'm new at this business but really interested in putting something together. I don't want to present musicians with stupid, unfair propositions because of my ignorance, though, so if you could help I would be really grateful. (Would like to know more about values as well, but I understand that this is a delicate topic to get discussed on youtube.)
I compose and arrange for a five-trumpet big band. For me in shout chorus, you heard the difference high register.
But there is so much fun stuff to experiment with an extra player!
The problem is when you are the fifth player and the other arrangers give you all the extra job... and you finally play 2 times more than the rest of the section! 😆
I agree on all counts. Thanks for watching!!!
Hi Elliot, your video covered 95% of writing for 5 trumpets. The only bandleader I've come across who writes differently is Bob Florence. He used 5 trumpets in his band and generally wrote all 5 within an octave (no doubling of the octave). Having analysed his writing, he seems to use a lot of 11th's even when the harmony doesn't indicate their presence as a "soft" tone, a bit like the fifth.
Bob Florence was an amazing composer. It doesn’t surprise me that he did wild stuff like that?”!
Congrats on that going viral! That's super cool. Great lesson by the way.
Thank you! It’s new for me!
It might be appropriate to discuss “split lead” options when discussing 5 part trumpet writing. :)
Thanks for this video! As someone more familiar with tiny horn sections from pop or ska bands (and also struggling with just four or five "mouths to feed" in gigging bands...), I'm always prone to wondering if big bands really need to be _that_ big... :D
Those A/B comparisons using your professional recordings are especially valuable!
HERE WE GO!!
Feels good to be back at it.
Great points made! I don't think I can really tell the difference either
Have subbed!
Yes! My request made it!!
Thanks for the idea! Now you know all of the five trumpet secrets!
Can you talk more about the actual way you arrange for them. I.e. if writing for 5, do you exclusively harmonised 1-4 and put 5 down the octave. Or do you use 5 part harmonies?
Likewise, if you were writing 5th parts for something that was only originally written for 4, what notes would you give 5th? (Assuming you can’t change the other 4 parts).
Always useful information!
Glad I can help!
Great video, thank you. I agree that it was difficult to hear any real difference with the 5th trumpet in your example. But could that be because the voicing was in the low range? What if the additional voicing was higher, and boosted the lead part?
Good thoughts, but I think it’s difficult to tell the difference because the 5th part doesn’t add much to this type of orchestration.
Elliot, Thanks again. I have a question about intervals or chord tones played by lead trumpet and lead trombone.When you don't double the trumpets an octave lower in the trombones, , is there a cardinal rule about the chordal interval between the lead trumpet note and the and the first trombone note? wholestep ok? . What choices are available to voice/harmonize other notes in the lead trombone of course within the same chord when playing the same chord as trumpets.? Thanks
There is no specific rule. Often trumpet 5 plays unison with trombone 1 when I add a 5th part.
Can you make a tutorial for big band arranging with strings?
Can you cover arranging for big band and solo vocal?
You really want to know? Buy my book, Creative Composing and Arranging, volume 2: Writing for Singers. www.suchsweetthundermusic.com
Yes. That's a great topic to talk about. But I won't be able to go NEARLY as deep in a 6-10 minute video as David Berger does in his book.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thanks, like you say, videos are great for scratching the surface, getting your feet wet, and a lot of other cliches, but if someone wants to really learn something about writing music, there is no substitute for listening, score study and reading good books on the subject. I wrote this particular book after 55 of writing songs and arrangements for singers and not seeing any books on the market that dealt with this specific topic. Sadly, most jazz musicians look down on singers. I've been lucky to work with many of the best and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Singers tell stories in ways that instrumentalists can't. An arranger who understands this and appreciates it is already ahead of the game.
All the examples are great, I especially liked being able to hear the trumpets in isolation as well. I was interested though in that scenario you described where there is a full trumpet section while the 5th trumpet plays in unison with a sax and trombone. If you could point to any examples songs I could search for that employ 5 trumpets in a way that you see as worthy of the hassle, I'm certainly curious.
Also, now I want to hear what that terrible french-horn like instrument sounds like :D
In a 4-player section, the trumpets will typically stand (Rhythm)-2-1-3-4 (or 4-1-2-3 if 4th is the solo chair). In a 5-player section, is there a default order or does it largely depend on how each part primarily functions?
Usually 42135
If you are using 6 chord when the 6th IS the melody tone(ex. G6), can you allow a whole step between lead voice (1st trumpet) and 2nd trumpet?
Amazing as usual! Now I just need 5 trumpet players and money to pay them.
Ha! I need to find money for the first 4!
Are you going to make a 5 trombone section video too? If so with maybe tuba on the 5th part? Love your videos btw!
That's a really interesting idea. Honestly, I haven't written any big band music with a 5 trombone section, or with tuba. But I know a couple of great composers who have written for those instrumentations extensively. Maybe I could ask one to make a guest tutorial!
Thanks for the great videos! I wonder if you write your music on concert p or it just for the viewers?
I compose in concert and then transpose when I’m cleaning up the parts. I hope that answers your question!
@@PandemoniumBigBand of course, thanks a lot.
Are you going to make a video (or some of them) about cluster and open forms of chords spread?
5 trumpets with 1 on flugel? (Ill probably ask about it in our lesson too 😅)
I don't think I talked about that. I guess you could do that if you want.
Fantastic! Thank you!
If I may, how do you pay your big band? Per rehearsal? Concert? Month? I'm new at this business but really interested in putting something together. I don't want to present musicians with stupid, unfair propositions because of my ignorance, though, so if you could help I would be really grateful.
(Would like to know more about values as well, but I understand that this is a delicate topic to get discussed on youtube.)
Send me an email and I’ll let you know whatever you want.
Relealed? 😇💪🏼
Whoops
@@PandemoniumBigBand haha 👍🏼
If you're a community band and don't have to pay your players, another good reason to stick with 4 is you have 1 less cat to herd.
Yes! Fewer phone calls make for a happier band leader.
That little laugh sells your channel 😁 I'm learning a lot. Can you make $ writing for a big band?
Yes… but it is as tough as making money in any facet of the music industry.
Lot of giggling here.
Welcome to my channel!
What is he laughing about? :D
Wouldn’t you like to know….