Creating a Boost Converter WITHOUT a Microcontroller
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
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In this video we will have a look at the classic boost converter circuit and find a way to create a proper feedback based boost converter without a µC. Along the way I will show you how commercial boost converter keep their output voltage stable and how we can rebuild their circuit so achieve the same.
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Music:
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Killing Time, Kevin MacLeod
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Minutes into the video and i can already tell you that "We can create circuits without a microcontroller, but usually that does not make a whole lot of sense!" is my favorite show in the internet. the oposite show would be amazing as well. great video as always
There are so many projects out there that use a microcontroller when not necessary. e.g., Turning a light on when a switch to throw. I have seen this done with an MC and it made me cry.
Jeff Smith lol same. its this arduino raspberry stuff thats caused this to happen. i shake my head when i see such stuff
For example: normal switch mode pc power suplies have an PWM controler IC instead of a mC to keep stable all the output voltajes
It annoys me too, but the converse is often true as well: Sometimes putting a 'trivial' microcontroller in a circuit can replace a couple of 4000 series chips. It feels wrong, but it's the simplest and cheapest way. Did it myself when I adapted a car alternator to be powered by a bicycle -drive - I could have generated the required field coil drive using a few analog components, but it had a lower part count to just use an atmega.
By using microcontrollers you can easily add new features and change parameters without changing any external components (PWM LED driver for example). Nevertheless, in mostly power supply designs, dedicated IC's are still in use. The biggest advantage in dedicated power IC's is continuous feedback loop (ADC in uC needs some time to measure the voltage, then some time is needed to calculate things and change pulse width on the output). But yes, microcontrollers destroyed old "good" elecronics in some way.
Such a nice basic tutorial. And the output looks very stable so good feedback! Keep up!
Electronoobs i see that another channel i subscribed to is here too 😊😃
Both of you just uploaded the video
you and he very important channels on youtube thanks a lot
Need a dispenser here! no puns intended lol
Holy... fist I saw Afrotechmods comment, and now you too? Damn is TH-cam heaven
Great video! It's not that folks don't like micro controllers, but rather they want to learn how the discrete components work before they use an IC. Like making a timer circuit from transistors instead of using a 555 just to see how it works... Once we understand the principle than we can use an IC to make the project easier.
Thank you! Yes, of course it is easier with a micro or special purpose IC, but keep in mind that doing it this way is very instructive in how all the functional blocks actually work. It's like anything else in electronics these days, there's many layers of abstraction taking us farther and farther from the jellybean hardware and we lose a bit of fundamental understanding.
6:36 - Let the magic smoke out :o
Bro...the feedback method impressed me a lot!!!! I really loved the method by which you designed the feedback.. A nice, decent
and cheap approach
I like this new series. Why go the easy way if there is a difficult one. Shows really good why just using a micro is so much better. Go on with the great work. Greetings from Dresden.
Michael
Loved the "In this episode of: we can create circuits without a microcontroller, but that usually doesn't make a whole lot of sense was great!
Hey, Scott! I just watched your previous video on the boost converter and commented about one without a microcontroller and this video immediately got recommended to me! Thanks a lot, mate!
Your videos are so nice that i watch them three to four times
The drawing is superbly done !
Thank you Scott, seems much easier to buy a cheap eBay DC to DC converter but I really appreciate you reaching me the working of each part of the circuit.
this the type of content that I want to watch please continue doing things without microcontroller.
Awesome second part of We can create circuits without a microcontroler, but usually that does not make a whole lot of sense! series. I really enjoyed every minute.
I always recommend taking a look at the joule-thief ( BigCliveDotCom ) and/or the pr4403 / pr4402 (and similar) for some interesting and easy projects around boost circuits
which can recycle/use old batteries.
you are really great mr. scott..... you help us beginners a lot
What a wonderfull name for this class of videos
Really you are great Scott. You are making great videos and also you are a inspiration for many peoples including Me😍
So largely like hand building a car long after autonomous assembly lines were introduced!? Damn that's so retro hahaha!
One thing I really do like about this channel tho is a MASSIVELY RELEVANT SPONSOR that doesn't have to be sold to the viewers as it's 100% relevant to the content!
You are saluted for a good sponsor!
Hi sir.Your pcb works are outstanding.super soldering.
I've been working with boost converters for over 20 years and have not yet come across one that does use a microcontroller. The analogue parts are good enough and cheap enough, and I suspect a lot more efficient.
And in safety critical industries like aerospace they are preferred as ICs are generally easier to verify than microcontrollers and code.
I've seen a chinese cc/cv board with a stm32 once.
I have repaired many switching power supplies. None of them had microcontroller.
+CoolKoon - Of course an MCU is always a choice, and sometimes it is the better choice. But in 2018 I do not think most switching supply designs are best done this way. Actually I am sad because I would like to create a super cheap switcher using an MCU but these days with integrated switches, synchronous flyback and high frequencies needing only very cheap inductors and capacitors, I think the game is over for common applications.
There might be some niche applications where factors other than outright power or efficiency are primary that would benefit; such as stability into ultra low power factor loads or continuity of supply over decades of production. There maybe an MCU is a good choice.
But - and this is important - *you should always play.* So go ahead and make an MCU SMPS. You'll learn so much on the journey.
Awesome ! I really love watching your videos !
This is an excelent follow up project to my pwm generator using a dual opamp as a relaxation oscilator/comparator
Please continue this series!
nice video you explain circuit very well .. very helpful thanks
Irresistorible!! I wish I got into this when I was younger, its hard to teach a old dog electronics!!
you made power electronic really easy for us
I love these videos where you basically demonstrate that, "Of course you can do this, but you shouldn't."
This is offically the first episode of "WCCCWMBUTDNMWLS" aka. the "We can create circuits without a microcontroller but usually that does not make a whole lot of sense!"
edit: this comment is the first episode of "We can create long and complicated acronyms but that usually does not make a whole lot of sense!"
HAHAHAHAHHA
We can create pointless answers to more or less pointless comments but that usually does not make a whole lot of sense!
ljfa We can create a copypasta out of a joke GS made, but it is usually even less sensible and funny than the original joke so it does not make a whole lot of sense
Very nice viedo. Finally it would be nice to see any transient load test with the digital an analog version 👍🏻
Very interesting. I hope this all makes sense to me some day 😂
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
Nice project, well done 👍😀
I just thought about building a boost converter you are awsome🔥🔥🔥
If you want to build a simple miniature boost converter using the MT3608 chip and only a few passive components, you can find a video about it on my channel. Have fun building your own!
Maxint R&D thank you
OMG! I actually got it right on the patreon teaser.
I bought PCBs through JLC and was super happy with the price and the quality. Thought I'd lyk!
I had looked into ordering custom pcbs before but they were all too expensive. JLC actually is reasonable somehow
And thanks for these videos. They helps me a lot.
“We can create circuits without a micro-controller....” in my case this is my natural choice because thats where I started in the mid to late sixties. From my perspective, starting with analogue design gives you more understanding of circuit theory and signal processing.
Often when you are beginning a new design you have to research to gain the fundamental understanding.
Putting those building blocks together in discrete form gives a better understanding of what works and what doesn’t and starting point for experimentation and optimisation. That is what I enjoy most in watching your videos. I gain a new or better understanding.
Thanks for the idea with the tl431 transistor to get a stabil 2.4v ,nice video!!!!!!!
I'm a huge fan. You're the man!!
uC are very handy, but they suck compared to dedicated IC's (and the discrete component method too).. For DCDC converters, a high switching frequency is sometimes very desirable. With uC's the PWM frequency is often too low or if it can be increased, the discrete steps that the duty cycle moves in is absolutely rubbish for maintaining a decent output voltage.
In addition to that mentioned disadvantage (quantized PWM steps that a microcontroller supplies), a much larger problem with using a microcontroller is that you cannot tune the feedback loop for high gain and high speed. Designing a proper feedback loop for an SMPS is the hardest part. Using a microcontroller will work, but the microcontroller will respond very slowly to output voltage changes, often taking hundreds of microseconds or even milliseconds to bring the output voltage back to the design voltage after a transient. This is unacceptable in most applications. An SMPS using a dedicated SMPS controller IC can be designed to bring output voltage back to the design value in single-digit microseconds for voltage-mode control, or down into the nanoseconds for current-mode control. In this circuit shown in this video, the error amplifier looks to have a gain of around 1 (10K input resistor, 10K feedback resistor). While that will indeed be stable, the output regulation will be very poor (several tenths of volts or whole volts of change with a load change).
Nice walk through. Higher frequency is going to be harder with a micro-controller - with higher frequency you can choose smaller inductors.
you have a clear diagram, good drawing!!
Great video for teaching the basics of a feedback control on a circuit, for the readers: the only disadvantage is that this kind of controler is of the P tipe (proportional ), and it may add overshoot or oscilation to the output, the Best kind of controler for this applications where speed, presition and stability is mandatory is the PID controler (Proportional, integral, derivative) and it is easy to achieve on a microcontroler , you can still make it all pure analog , its really fun but time consuming ... I still preffer analog hehe. Great video Great scott!
Dude, lend me some of your knowledge!!! It's impressive!!!
I really like what You did in the beginning (that text which I forgot, and was too lazy to check). You should do more things like that
Nice, it would be interesting a comparison of the ripple and noise voltage between the two versions
I like this new series :D please, make more... and keep the name :D :D
6:35 you said it works, but i saw in the background smoke 😂👍🏻
Soldering iron?
@@generalbutz8477 a dying component
My hopes
I like the title for this kind of video, might be long but it's too the point. It's interesting to see how ICs have changed electronics.
His way of teaching is awosome.
very cool, more projects without a microcontroler please
Can't wait for the fpga version.
An old school Great Scott electronics video -always a treat when the Patreon feed fires :-) May I ask about the ramp function please? Why not a sine wave there? Isn't it easier to create a sine wave oscillation? Hope this is not too dumb a question.
Since the feedback needs to be linear we have to use a triangle signal.
A sine would result in nonlinear feedback. It'd sort-of-work, but output voltage stability would be poor. To work properly you need a triangle or a ramp.
To address your other question, sines can also be trickier to make. Triangle waves are very easy to make with a relaxation oscillator. Sine waves require a little more effort, enough so that many function generators instead filter a triangle wave into something similar to a sine rather than generate the actual thing from scratch.
Really good triangle waves are difficult. You need to do things involving a constant current source. But unless you're making something that needs a really precise triangle/saw wave (an oscilloscope perhaps, or CRT display), a relaxation oscillator is a close-enough approximation.
@@vylbird8014 The oscillator used in the circuit (see 6:02 ) charges/discharges the 10nF capacitor with a constant current via the 1K resistor which has either +2.5V or -2.5V across it, That's because the 1K resistor is driven by the rail-to-rail (0V to 5V) square wave from a Schmitt trigger and the other end of the resistor at the inverting input is kept at the same voltage as the non-inverting (around +2.5V) by opamp action. It's the really good triangle wave you're looking for.
Almost 800k subs yeeaahh!! ❤
6:35 is that magic smoke ? :D
Hi Great Scott,
I was looking at many videos about how to make PCBs at home using the toner transfer method. Could you make a video on which method would be the best for making my own circuit board and whether it is best to DIY or buy from a manufacturer?
Hi Scott! Make a video review of your workplace. What tools do you use, how to store details, how to store order and so on.
I don't get the logic of this. We should build switchers with microcontrollers because it is too hard to build one out of op-amps, comparators, voltage references, resistors, capacitors, and mosfets? You answered the question properly at the end. Use a switcher chip. Don't reinvent the wheel. With a switcher chip you can build one with the chip, the inductor, diode, and capacitor, and done. And it can be trusted to be stable and regulate properly. The only reason to build one this way is for the purpose of understanding how they work at the deepest levels.
Yep. As you could see in the shown datasheet of the MT3608, that circuit would be very simple. Some time ago I made a mini boost-converter with that chip. The main value of this video is to educate and indeed to create understanding.
Very nice engineering example! 😊
I suggest building a decoration Binary Counter and showing how these work! They are interesting and useful after all.
I like the new series title.
Best episode name ever!!!!!!
Pretty nice name for the series 👌
Nice tutorial - but I wouldn't recommend the microcontroller version either ... Use a simple MC34063 for this task :) A step-up / step-down normally does more than just adjusting the PWM ... They have some safety circuits built in - for instance limitting the current through the coil and mosfet ... A year ago (or so ...) I used the cheap MC34063 as boost converter for 50W LED (12V to 48V @ 1A) which worked quite nice and it is cheeeeeap :)
temperature compensated, too!
I have made a microcontroller-driven buck converter before, but that was a special case - it was for a solar MPPT controller and needed to constantly adapt for optimal power transfer.
I have wondered if you could use a microcontroller driven buck to vary the output voltage in a 'rectified sine' wave, then use an H bridge to make an ultra-compact inverter. In principle it should work, providing your load is resistive. A bit of reactance would really screw it up, but that's true for most inverters.
I have a feeling with good design regarding the PWM frequency, output filter and loop compensation, you'll get a boost converter that has a better loop response compared to the microcontroller design, so that's one reason to use the analog version.
This was very cool and informative! That said when in doubt just use the MC34063A. It's stupidly cheap and works like a champ, even on a breadboard!
But you cannot connect a Mosfet with that IC as far as I know.
yes we stay creative, and we will see you next time!
Radio Shack used to sell a book "build Switching power supplies" i have one, shows how to build using basic components. I built one back in the day to step 12volts up to 30 with 100watt capacity, using a single IRF510 as the switch along with a high speed diode and a toriod. The control was a 555 timer
I finaly made one with only one analog ic and some pasive components and a tl432 and 817c opto and its more stable and efficient than you'd think.
Can u send the circuit diagram of it please
Very catchy titel for a new series :)
We should use microcontrollers for such a simple circuits only, when we don't have other solutions for that. You can easily build the boost converter using 555 timer, an optocoupler and tl431 or a zener diode. I have built one and it was as simple as the microcontroller version. Building the boost converter on discreet transistors is also possible. You just have to make a multivibrator, connect it's output to 2 transistor mosfet driver, make a feedback with tl431 or a zener diode and a transistor, and modify the resistance of one of the base resistors in a vibrator with it. Just add a paraller transistor to that resistor and you're done.
amazing work , thank you man
What a brand new long series name
now that i watched i wanted to ask you GreatScott: why not use a single chip quad opamp that is rail to rail like a OPA4342 or a LMV324?
Rodrigo D Madruga you could
maybe he just had other chips on hand, nbd either way
Great video - btw. it does make sense, because when using an uC you need a programmer, computer, etc and also its not available everywhere and little more expensive and harder to replace when broken (reprogram, needs the code etc)
on what device did you watch this youtube video?
android phone, why?
A programmer's job is to get fired as quickly as possible. Put another way, a programmer should be looking to have the project done so he is not needed- a programmer is an automator. If your code needs reprogramming later on, either your needs changed or it wasn't done right the first time!
PolskaDojczland
You have a good point. But I (as an electronics hobbyist) usually prefer the programming approach, I feel it's easier to test and debug, especially if you come from programming into electronics. But I noticed that the hardware approach is somewhat more "robust" than microcontrollers.
Abdulaziz Salam - For a hobby project you can use whatever parts that you have and want, but for professional use a standalone ic would be used - a uC is just too unreliable, not "robust" enough as you mentioned. But both approaches are valid, i just wanted to clarify it DOES make sense to use only ICs, because in the video he wrote it doesnt make sense.
Intro music is bartlebeats - 2011 Lookalike
Great video! Could you make a tutorial of using DDS or PLL chips?
Nice video man
Might I suggest a Geiger Muller counter as a project video? It's pretty easy to make a simple one that emits the classic click (especially if you use a piezoelectric speaker)
While this can work, the circuit is semistable. For slowly changing loads or input signals it will work fine, however for transient loads it can show an extreme under and overshoot (google "right half plane zero" for more information), also it has a very low phase margin, so it could, with some parasitic capacitances in the circuit, start to oscillate. (If you operate in CCM)
I wonder if those are the "few problems" he has with his circuit, or if there are others as well.
I like the title of this series
Excellent! Well done
Keep it up,#share the knowledge
Amazing work, dude! Really nice! 😀
When's the next addition to the series lol. Nice video
Finally something that doesn't use a microcontroller
yeah, but mosfet driver is almost like microcontroller, I would love to see circuit without any dip packages whatsoever :D
@@great__success Could you provide an example.
I know right. I mean I love electronics and want to get the materials required to build microcontroller circuits. However I am limited by money and other things, that prevent me from ordering parts. So “simple” circuits like these are nice.
@@teku3985 electroboom recently uploaded zvs circuit, and "driver" were built as an oscillator from transistors and capacitors watch?v=hFJeIt_JcEc
@@great__success Thank you for responding. I have watched that video and it is a testament that many things can be accomplished without employing microcontrollers. I never doubted that. Personally if there is a situation where I can use simple logic or ic configurations in the place of microcontrollers I always take that route. However, the point that GREAT SCOTT was trying to convey in his video was that although using “rudimentary” electronics to design a circuit is totally possible it’s not always the easiest or most efficient way. But, what I wanted to contest is your statement that mosfet drivers are “basically microcontrollers” now, microcontrollers make use of complex transistor combinations to create the modules that make up the microcontrollers themselves. But a simple MOSFET driver that I am assuming you were referencing utilizes one metal oxide field effect transistor to switch the load and simple components to control the MOSFET’s load. This is simply downplaying the complexity of such devices and this makes me feel sad so stop plz
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Gut gemacht!
You answer my question Scott!! Can I make a boost converter just simple linear 555 digital subscription signal thanks Scott!!
I'm new to electronics having only dabbled in relatively simple projects in the past - I have a question and I don't seem to be able to find an answer but this video comes close. Is it possible to take a 0.5V 6A input (from a sunpower maxeon pv cell) and boost it to a usable voltage (say 5V)? I cannot find a boost converter that can handle such a low voltage (or if I do it cannot handle 6A)? Does such a boost converter exist or is it possible to split the current accross multiple boost converters?
Word of advice: You need to use flux so you don't get the sharp spike tails when you re-solder anything to a joint. Use a syringe of flux paste and apply it Every time you solder anything. Joints will be much better and it's easy to do.
Stephen Kramer
Yea, paste or liquid flux is really helpful!
I think he has bad solder. The flux core in the solder is usually enough in my experience.
Finally! Without using the microcontroller
Nice tutorial! But I have a little question, the feedback network would work with the buck-boost converter from other of yours video? I'd like to build it as testing. Thank you in advance!
Great Video!!!
It's always good to have more than one way to solve a problem.
Plus, I prefer a pure hardware solution over doing the heavy lifting in software.(mostly because I suck at coding)
In the aerospace industry this approach would traditionally be the more preferred choice as it is easier to verify. Verify code and a microcontroller is a lot more complicated than verifying individual components and ICs.
seconded. I usually frown at the use of uCs in every simple application that can be done with a transistor and a few resistors. And this traditional approach is easier imo and the right way to implement basic circuits.
Indeed, but if you use more hardware on your projects, you will have more stuff that can eventually fail. Also, if you use a mC for simple aplications, is like killing a fly with a cannon. Yes you can kill ir, but with something simplier you can do that job
Joe Charlie H
Yes there is more stuff to fail but one needs to look at the overall probability of failure. Which is the sum of probability of failure of all of the parts. As a very simple example, if there is a circuit which has 5 components which all have a 0.03 chance of failure, then the overall chance of failure is 0.15. If a second circuit has 10 components each with a 0.01 chance of failure then the overall chance of failure is 0.1, what I am trying to show by this, is that although the second circuit has more things which could go wrong, the chances of the second circuit failing is less. Is the mircocontroller more likely to fail than the sum of any of the ICs, that is the real question as to which circuit can be considered the more reliable in terms of prevention of failure.
pileofstuff at least you are better than me, I don't even know coding is related to electrical engineering.
Hey there ;) It would be awesome if you could show, how to mod a cheap 12V DV to 230V AC converter to output a pure sine wave instead of a modified sine wave. Keep up your great work!
What is that pen you use man ??..
It's really nice...and great video too...loved it..
hey man just waiting for you 1million subs
Nice tutorial. Only one question, why the need of the mosfet driver?
What about very fast changing voltage at the input or fast changing load at the output, which setup uC or OPAM version would you recommend? For example dimming some lights or controlling motor with PWM signal.