I remember this level, it's the Doom map that taught me that monsters have infinite height. In the room with the blue key, I'd try to run under the lost souls and pain elemental and then be so confused about the invisible walls stopping me from moving.
@@tacticaljunk1608 I would say the blockmap bug is a real flaw as well. Infinite height I really don't get. You can go under projectiles. Monsters have their height checked and get blocked from hallways shorter than they are. Cacos, Lost Souls, and Pain Elementals have to fly up or down around walls to get into gaps. I'm sure there's some technical explanation for monsters being infinite height/doomguy being unable to pass under them, but I don't know what it is. (how embarrassing it would be if decino covered this in an analysis video already, and I've forgotten. maybe I should binge watch them again sometime. Who needs Neftlix when you have pumpkin man?)
@@mjc0961 Its just an optimisation thing, so that the game doesnt have to worry about monsters colliding vertically. cant remember if decino has covered it but theres a video called "Doom engine - Limited but still 3D" by borogk that shows this stuff really well
@@mjc0961 Its because OG doom isn't full 3D, but a two dimensional game that gives the illusion of being three dimensional. It does all its calculations in a 2D space, hence infinitely tall monsters. Have you ever wondered why levels don't have overlapping areas, for example true multi story buildings? That's the reason as well.
@@ravagerslb He literally gave two examples of doom calculating the depth of objects: projectiles going over/under players and flying monsters having to fly up/down to navigate around walls.
@@oxobopokso15 I always thought the infinitely tall monsters was because of being a 2.5d game. Probably there were other reasons, like hardware limitations or performance concerns at the time, that we are not aware of. Or they just didn't care about fixing it.
Idk, I find this map quite memorable for its dark atmosphere and somewhat consistent visual theme. The fact that it has a unique music track also helps, fits really well. As for the floating water cube which everyone remembers - somehow I never noticed anything strange about it until I started watching this channel.
This map has exactly the atmosphere I love - dark, brooding, somber. The music is a perfect fit too - another Alice in Chains song ("Angry Chair" this time). I just wish the level was longer and a bit more populated, perhaps. BTW, that blue thing above the exit teleporter isn't a glitch or an oversight - it is actually a tesseract! This makes MAP25 the only one in the Doom series to feature genuine 4-dimensional architecture.
The main criticism I see a lot of this map is that it feels kinda random, but like... most of the end of doom 2 felt kinda random, so I think it makes more sense to just rate maps on whether they're cool or not and this map is pretty cool imo
@@doomerrasa8475 I think that's the thing. Sandy Peterson's idea of hell is realms that don't make conventional or logical sense, while John's idea was very much classical hell and rock and roll. Though part of it that all the maps were created, then assigned based on relative difficulty rather then any deep thoughtful process. Hence why Chasm, which reads to me as very techbasey, features so late in the game. And Navina in general is just weird, like stepping into a realm where everything that was logical, is illogical. It's a more interesting interpretation to me as to how weird Doom could be. That being said, Tom Hall's map is pretty beautiful, it's just really easy compared to where it is.
I actually really like this map, as a kid this and other late maps like this were kind of mysterious to me since I wasn't good at the game and getting this far was like a treat. Also; shloodfalls.
And then, there's Decino's playthrough of the not-to-forgettable "Bloodfalls II", with haunting music, and that huge Cyber/SpiderMama battle on canvas.
decino, amigo mío, tus videos recientes han renacido mis ganas de volver a jugar Doom II con una dificultad que, según veo hasta ahora, era imposible de superar. Muchas gracias. Saludos desde Chile.
That secret with nothing in it still baffles me to this day. Like, how did they let that go like that? Did no one test this map on UV? I mean, I know there's a BFG in there on easier difficulties, but still lol
At least it actually looks like a hell level. The other few Doom 2 levels that supposedly take place in hell still come off as being more manmade Earth places than demonic.
@@micuu1 There's no bugged secrets in Doom 2, Jimmy Romeo said the Pain Elemental thing in Industrial Zone was intentional 🙃 (no I don't believe it was actually intentional, just making a joke)
I think there's something oddly TNT-ish in this map. The texturing, the big boring rooms with lots of hitscanners, that weird "cube" in the end, that dark cave section. Am I the only one who feels that? xD
@@krazyfinndude666 And how many such "big rooms with like one texture" are there, actually? I'd wager no more than a couple, but you make it sound like the whole game is like that.
A very interesting map that has nice blood all over the place but at the same time it does damage to you which is never a good thing. This music is again, interesting to listen and I think it fits with this map really well. Good job out there.
This level makes The Chasm shine. The Chasm may be abstract nonsense from an architecture standpoint, but it has cohesive and directed game play. Bloodfalls looks like a techbase with a bloody nose
I do kinda like this map for its darker atmosphere and some neat areas like the bloodfall danger area and the final room. It’s a simple map that does come and go, but I still kinda enjoy it for its simplicity (especially after the last 3 maps).
“Ok so this is Map 25. Uh, I forgot the name of this map. Oh guess I’ll remember later. K, so let’s jump down these bloodfalls, shoot through these bloodfalls here. Kill the shotgunners until you see their blood fall out of their body. Then, here’s a room with a fountain that uh makes blood fall…” -Decino 2019. When you started your nightmare playthrough I thought the joke would return, especially after seeing Nirvana. Well I guess that like the map, it was forgotten.
This map may be filler, but I find this map a breath of fresh air after the dredge that are maps 21 to 24, and a signal that the best stretch of Doom 2 is coming up (at least until map 30...)
Somewhat fittingly, I did not notice this video until a week after it was uploaded, and I didn't even think twice about you apparently not playing the map itself.
I like the aesthetics of Bloodfalls. I even like the troll secret which is useful only on Hurt Me Plenty and lower. But combat is pretty simple in this map, just a matter of taking out hitscanners first.
The MAP25 is one of my favourite maps in DOOM 2. Mostly because of the soundtrack, but I also like some decoration and gameplay decisions, like water cube or missing BFG on some difficulties. Also, not everybody knows, that you can move a bloody pedestal that holds revenant down. I don't know why. Maybe to climb it and deal easily with enemies on the second floor, but I guess on high difficulties it can be dangerous.
This level is short and well paced, but it could definitely use some more challenging monsters and more interesting secrets. I mean, it's so close close to the end, time to pull out all the stops! This feels more like a really early level.
Couldn't recognize it from the thumbnail. Saw the opening room, went "oh that map". Though I have a feeling that if it was one of the early maps, I would have remembered it better, simply because we'd have played more often. Don't think it's a bad map, though. It's simply forgettable. But, then again, after Barrels of Fun and the Chasm, it's hard for another level to maintain unique identity.
I wonder, would it be possible to do a puzzle, where you would have to find plasma, to get through a very dark room, with holes, where you would have to use plasma's autoaim on harmless and mostly hidden enemies to guide you towards a safe path? Probably good enough only for a secret.
This map always felt to me as though it should have been Map 21. The whole blood waterfall schtick and relatively easy combat feels suited for a Hell episode opener.
Bloodfalls, the only map (as far as I know) with an EMPTY secret (outside of low to mid difficulty) I like the final room, the mid is like a little pyramid
Heretic also has at least on empty secret, but that's because a certain behavior of the Firemace spawning mechanic was removed in a patch, which caused some secrets to get deserted (they would have otherwise contained a monster).
watching the Wads and comparing them to fanmaps is so odd. feels like an entirely different world in a way, especially when compared to the stuff decino usually plays
Because it's flagged to only appear on easy and normal difficulties, and they didn't put anything in there that only appears in hard difficulties. Why? I dunno.
I feel old when my Doom 2 wad file is so early that Bloodfalls was registered as not having Secrets and Underhalls has those bars on the first switch...
I'm assuming that it was a mistake that there was nothing in that last secret. I don't mind this level so much but for me personally it's not a level I really remember much although it's not a bad level really just I don't know I guess just nothing note worthy maybe that's it though it's a filler level but yeah anyway cheers for the upload decino currently playing catch up on the videos just got the one you uploaded today to watch now which I'm about to watch after writing this
This map is fantastic, but it's far too late into the game (much like the Catacombs). I think it could have been one of the first 7 maps, honestly. Just remove some of the tankier enemies and make the blood not harm you anymore when you walk on it, and it'd be a lot more streamlined.
Do you have always-run on? Also, watching you blast through these levels gives a nostalgic feeling of when I got Doom II when it first came out. Would only play it when all the lights were on and someone was home - we thought it was the scariest game out there in 94!
MAP 25 BloodFalls for Doom 2 it's not an easy Map.But it's not too hard.Good job decino for your skills for the Maps. Let's see if you can do Map 26 on Nightmare.
Will you do No Rest For The Living? Final Doom is nearly impossible (disaster area intensifies) and Master Levels are so mixed and cursed, so NRFTL feels accurate in classic doom design. It's not a request though.
I remember this level, it's the Doom map that taught me that monsters have infinite height. In the room with the blue key, I'd try to run under the lost souls and pain elemental and then be so confused about the invisible walls stopping me from moving.
@@tacticaljunk1608 I would say the blockmap bug is a real flaw as well.
Infinite height I really don't get. You can go under projectiles. Monsters have their height checked and get blocked from hallways shorter than they are. Cacos, Lost Souls, and Pain Elementals have to fly up or down around walls to get into gaps. I'm sure there's some technical explanation for monsters being infinite height/doomguy being unable to pass under them, but I don't know what it is.
(how embarrassing it would be if decino covered this in an analysis video already, and I've forgotten. maybe I should binge watch them again sometime. Who needs Neftlix when you have pumpkin man?)
@@mjc0961 Its just an optimisation thing, so that the game doesnt have to worry about monsters colliding vertically.
cant remember if decino has covered it but theres a video called "Doom engine - Limited but still 3D" by borogk that shows this stuff really well
@@mjc0961 Its because OG doom isn't full 3D, but a two dimensional game that gives the illusion of being three dimensional. It does all its calculations in a 2D space, hence infinitely tall monsters.
Have you ever wondered why levels don't have overlapping areas, for example true multi story buildings? That's the reason as well.
@@ravagerslb He literally gave two examples of doom calculating the depth of objects: projectiles going over/under players and flying monsters having to fly up/down to navigate around walls.
@@oxobopokso15 I always thought the infinitely tall monsters was because of being a 2.5d game. Probably there were other reasons, like hardware limitations or performance concerns at the time, that we are not aware of. Or they just didn't care about fixing it.
Idk, I find this map quite memorable for its dark atmosphere and somewhat consistent visual theme. The fact that it has a unique music track also helps, fits really well. As for the floating water cube which everyone remembers - somehow I never noticed anything strange about it until I started watching this channel.
This map has exactly the atmosphere I love - dark, brooding, somber. The music is a perfect fit too - another Alice in Chains song ("Angry Chair" this time). I just wish the level was longer and a bit more populated, perhaps.
BTW, that blue thing above the exit teleporter isn't a glitch or an oversight - it is actually a tesseract! This makes MAP25 the only one in the Doom series to feature genuine 4-dimensional architecture.
how is it a tesseract?
The main criticism I see a lot of this map is that it feels kinda random, but like... most of the end of doom 2 felt kinda random, so I think it makes more sense to just rate maps on whether they're cool or not and this map is pretty cool imo
@@idd_cutie1274 If you stare into it long enough, you get phased into another dimension.
(Note: do not try this at home!)
@@doomerrasa8475 I think that's the thing. Sandy Peterson's idea of hell is realms that don't make conventional or logical sense, while John's idea was very much classical hell and rock and roll. Though part of it that all the maps were created, then assigned based on relative difficulty rather then any deep thoughtful process. Hence why Chasm, which reads to me as very techbasey, features so late in the game. And Navina in general is just weird, like stepping into a realm where everything that was logical, is illogical. It's a more interesting interpretation to me as to how weird Doom could be.
That being said, Tom Hall's map is pretty beautiful, it's just really easy compared to where it is.
I watched your BTSX playthroughts before sleep yesterday and wow, your skills evolved tremendously. You are on the way to become doomgod.
Our pumpkin man is growing
Decino takes far less damage on many of these NIGHTMARE runs than he does on his older UV MAX vids. His skill level went way up.
I actually really like this map, as a kid this and other late maps like this were kind of mysterious to me since I wasn't good at the game and getting this far was like a treat.
Also; shloodfalls.
Looks like Im alone in actually liking this map. The atmosphere is perfect for a dark hell cave environment.
This map isn't bad, it just doesn't make a lot of sense this late in the game. For map 25 it ought to be a bit more challenging.
You're not alone, I think a lot of people like it
And then, there's Decino's playthrough of the not-to-forgettable "Bloodfalls II", with haunting music, and that huge Cyber/SpiderMama battle on canvas.
I like this map actually, the blood gives it a "hellish" gimmick
@3:29 admiring the *watercube*
2:44 Decino dodged that Barin/Hell Knight projectile like a boss.
decino, amigo mío, tus videos recientes han renacido mis ganas de volver a jugar Doom II con una dificultad que, según veo hasta ahora, era imposible de superar. Muchas gracias. Saludos desde Chile.
That secret with nothing in it still baffles me to this day. Like, how did they let that go like that? Did no one test this map on UV? I mean, I know there's a BFG in there on easier difficulties, but still lol
Well there you go. Whether there's anything in that secret depends on what difficulty level you're playing on. Harder difficulty you get nothing!
That central hitscan room with the Revenant is so heckin deadly. Not even any outtakes? Dang, the s k i l l
At least it actually looks like a hell level. The other few Doom 2 levels that supposedly take place in hell still come off as being more manmade Earth places than demonic.
2:45 It's certainly one of the secrets in Doom II
I mean, it's not bugged so it's technically not the worst secret in the game.
@@micuu1 There's no bugged secrets in Doom 2, Jimmy Romeo said the Pain Elemental thing in Industrial Zone was intentional 🙃
(no I don't believe it was actually intentional, just making a joke)
Some would say it's one of the secrets of all time!
Ahh. My 3-5mins of best entertainment of the day.
This is the map that has inspired my DooM mapmaking the most, especially that blood cross trough at the start. Just like the look and feel of it.
I think there's something oddly TNT-ish in this map. The texturing, the big boring rooms with lots of hitscanners, that weird "cube" in the end, that dark cave section. Am I the only one who feels that? xD
nope, I get big TNT vibes from this too although this is fortunately a short map unlike most TNT maps
A room with hitscanners is never boring, kids ;)
@@AlexeiVoronin not if done correctly. But in TNT it's big rooms with like one texture, just looks kinda boring, the fighting itself isn't
@@krazyfinndude666 And how many such "big rooms with like one texture" are there, actually? I'd wager no more than a couple, but you make it sound like the whole game is like that.
@@AlexeiVoronin well it does feel like it
[Opens the second secret]
Willy Wonka: "You get nothing!"
"You lose! Good day sir!"
A very interesting map that has nice blood all over the place but at the same time it does damage to you which is never a good thing. This music is again, interesting to listen and I think it fits with this map really well. Good job out there.
This is definitely one of the maps ever made
This level makes The Chasm shine. The Chasm may be abstract nonsense from an architecture standpoint, but it has cohesive and directed game play. Bloodfalls looks like a techbase with a bloody nose
If anyone who asks me what a flow state looks like, I show them your nightmare playthroughs 🧡🍿 great work😊
Love watching your doom playthroughs decino 😊😊
Are you gonna grab Boltgun when it releases man?
Not planning to.
@@decino o ok. I do. Looks like an old school doom clone 😁
Hey I got a game reccomendation. Arthurian Legends.
I do kinda like this map for its darker atmosphere and some neat areas like the bloodfall danger area and the final room. It’s a simple map that does come and go, but I still kinda enjoy it for its simplicity (especially after the last 3 maps).
I like this map a lot, actually. Pretty quick, nice atmosphere.
the most forgetable map in the whole game: w a t e r c u b e
It aint much, but it's honest work
Four dimensional, no less
Timecube was a lie-- the true secret of reality is WATERCUBE
Yup. I just played through the game last year and I forgot about this one.
“Use us.”
“Ok so this is Map 25. Uh, I forgot the name of this map. Oh guess I’ll remember later. K, so let’s jump down these bloodfalls, shoot through these bloodfalls here. Kill the shotgunners until you see their blood fall out of their body. Then, here’s a room with a fountain that uh makes blood fall…” -Decino 2019. When you started your nightmare playthrough I thought the joke would return, especially after seeing Nirvana. Well I guess that like the map, it was forgotten.
This map may be filler, but I find this map a breath of fresh air after the dredge that are maps 21 to 24, and a signal that the best stretch of Doom 2 is coming up (at least until map 30...)
This feels like a deathmatch level more than anything else
Decino should make an audiobook with Doom's manual. Greeting everyone at the start and wishing everybody a wonderful day at the end.
His manual would have so many addendums in it ranging from corrections to giving fun facts about everything, I would definitely listen to it!
Even better, why not an audiobook based on the manuals of TUD, Doom II, Final Doom, and Doom 64, with the excision of redundancies?
Nice run pumpkin man
Somewhat fittingly, I did not notice this video until a week after it was uploaded, and I didn't even think twice about you apparently not playing the map itself.
2:42 Ah, the Willy Wonka secret. "You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!"
I like the aesthetics of Bloodfalls. I even like the troll secret which is useful only on Hurt Me Plenty and lower. But combat is pretty simple in this map, just a matter of taking out hitscanners first.
"Wait, that wasn't a bug, it's a feature"
The MAP25 is one of my favourite maps in DOOM 2. Mostly because of the soundtrack, but I also like some decoration and gameplay decisions, like water cube or missing BFG on some difficulties. Also, not everybody knows, that you can move a bloody pedestal that holds revenant down. I don't know why. Maybe to climb it and deal easily with enemies on the second floor, but I guess on high difficulties it can be dangerous.
My personal fav map in doom 2 (after circle of death). Just love the dark atmosphere in this map
This level is short and well paced, but it could definitely use some more challenging monsters and more interesting secrets. I mean, it's so close close to the end, time to pull out all the stops! This feels more like a really early level.
Doom 2 was a money grab.
Yeah, those highly detailed new monster sprites and behaviour. Total cash grab.
@@decino it is just an expansion pack.
Doesn't mean it's a cash grab. Final Doom -- now that was a cash grab.
@@decino that's what it looks like to me. Same game different assets.
I've always gotten TNT Evilution vibes from this map. Fortunately this is at least short one, unlike the actual TNT levels lmao
I actually like Bloodfalls more than I should admit. It's so forgettable that every time I go back to it, it feels new.
Couldn't recognize it from the thumbnail. Saw the opening room, went "oh that map". Though I have a feeling that if it was one of the early maps, I would have remembered it better, simply because we'd have played more often. Don't think it's a bad map, though. It's simply forgettable. But, then again, after Barrels of Fun and the Chasm, it's hard for another level to maintain unique identity.
Especially hard if you want the levels that late in the game to come off as hellish.
I wonder, would it be possible to do a puzzle, where you would have to find plasma, to get through a very dark room, with holes, where you would have to use plasma's autoaim on harmless and mostly hidden enemies to guide you towards a safe path? Probably good enough only for a secret.
I've played through Doom 2 several times and remember most of the maps like the back of my hand, but I barely even recognise this one
This map always felt to me as though it should have been Map 21. The whole blood waterfall schtick and relatively easy combat feels suited for a Hell episode opener.
We stan for water tesseract.
Maybe the highest number of torches in one area - and it's a cavern that is still somehow pitch-black 😂
I always forget about this map when playing Doom II. Still a fun map on Nightmare though!
A less than five minute long map and a good 30 seconds of it was spent dealing with an abnormally stubborn pain elemental at the beginning :P
the “wootah” cube, it’s from the hellish dimension here known as england
Bloodfalls, the only map (as far as I know) with an EMPTY secret (outside of low to mid difficulty)
I like the final room, the mid is like a little pyramid
Heretic also has at least on empty secret, but that's because a certain behavior of the Firemace spawning mechanic was removed in a patch, which caused some secrets to get deserted (they would have otherwise contained a monster).
Did you know this uses a different blood fall texture than DooM 1. Not sure why, but the new one looks a whole lot better
Doom 1 had no bloodfall texture at all.
@@decino whaaat? i couldve sworn i saw one in SIGIL, unless they're making their own textures
@@victoriouswinner7745 SIGIL (and at least one E4 map) reuses the fire wall texture as a blood/lava fall substitute.
should've waited around at the end for the Archvile jump death exit
Oh Bloodfalls, definitely one of the maps of Doom 2
As Civvie would put it: "Bloodfalls is a level."
watching the Wads and comparing them to fanmaps is so odd. feels like an entirely different world in a way, especially when compared to the stuff decino usually plays
This is one of the maps of all time
2:45 how come the BFG is not there when playing on the hard difficulties?
Because it's flagged to only appear on easy and normal difficulties, and they didn't put anything in there that only appears in hard difficulties.
Why? I dunno.
I dont know why I had in my mind that this map was a tnt map
Filler: The Map
Featuring: best secret in the whole game
It's time for the cube% speedrun!
Down with Blood
Up with Decino
This map is so tiny in footprint, it could be a DOOM 64 map.
Blink and you've missed it: the map. That last secret was a bummer
I feel old when my Doom 2 wad file is so early that Bloodfalls was registered as not having Secrets and Underhalls has those bars on the first switch...
ahhh the almighty 4 dimension water cube, everyone get on your knees before that power
4-D water cube my beloved ❤
I guess there isn't much to it, but I really like the vibe of this map. I like all Green's maps. Dark, but not too dark. Romero.
Straight doing it.
The bloodfalls are underrated!
[marge simpson meme] i just think they're neat!
Fact:Every drop of blood in bloodfalls is from Decino's failed nightmare runs!
Not just simply decino's, I'll bet.
@@michaelandreipalon359 lmao yeah
Filler?! I always quite liked Bloodfalls!
Kinda odd that the walk through blood fall area with the green armor isn't a secret
Yet the secret that has nothing in it is.
@@ireneparkin3360 Has a BFG9000 in lower difficulties.
I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone pronounce the word "dogshit" like that, but yes I agree, this is "dogshit, the map"
Another reason we love Decino lol
🎶 Sitting on an Angry Chair 🎶
I'm assuming that it was a mistake that there was nothing in that last secret. I don't mind this level so much but for me personally it's not a level I really remember much although it's not a bad level really just I don't know I guess just nothing note worthy maybe that's it though it's a filler level but yeah anyway cheers for the upload decino currently playing catch up on the videos just got the one you uploaded today to watch now which I'm about to watch after writing this
Sitting on an angry chair.
Filler the map indeed
This map is fantastic, but it's far too late into the game (much like the Catacombs). I think it could have been one of the first 7 maps, honestly. Just remove some of the tankier enemies and make the blood not harm you anymore when you walk on it, and it'd be a lot more streamlined.
this map gives me Nekravol vibes
I still enjoy this map, even if it is filler. I like the idea at the end.
The watercube isn't blood because he's not in his angry chair
HELL YEA SHAWN GREEN.
first map i actually had problems with during my first hmp run
2:38 jesus this cracked me up so much even my girlfriend started laughing at me laughing at this moment
I think I blinked. Still fooled from 4/1.
Do you have always-run on? Also, watching you blast through these levels gives a nostalgic feeling of when I got Doom II when it first came out. Would only play it when all the lights were on and someone was home - we thought it was the scariest game out there in 94!
Always run is the only way to play.
Always run is on.
@@decino well yeah. That frees up a finger to do something useful.
Shoutouts to the empty only on UV and NIghtmare secret, and shout outs to the fake blood fall wall that isn't a secret.
3:45 were you considering getting killed and exiting that way? If that is possible, I have seen some maps you can exit by dying on to the exit area.
did the ID team ever divulge why they put that blue cube above the exit sector?
I assume if you ever get an answer it'll be something along the lines of "Shawn Green thought it looked cool"
Will you do nightmare Final Doom and Plutonia next?
Good thing they put this secret here, otherwise it would have been really hard to beat the level.
LOL @ the nothing secret; what's supposed to be in there?
It actually should be BFG in there, but it is removed at nightmare difficulty and probably ultra-violence
MAP 25 BloodFalls for Doom 2 it's not an easy Map.But it's not too hard.Good job decino for your skills for the Maps. Let's see if you can do Map 26 on Nightmare.
Will you do No Rest For The Living? Final Doom is nearly impossible (disaster area intensifies) and Master Levels are so mixed and cursed, so NRFTL feels accurate in classic doom design.
It's not a request though.
I always enjoyed this map I don't even care 😅
👍👍👍
What after Doom 2? Evilution/Plutonia perhaps?
Hell Revealed
People are saying what an amazing cube we've got. Corners like you wouldn't believe. They're the best. We love the cube, don't we folks?
Shawn Green is now a Buddhist monk or something like that? He might be living in a real version of this map for all we know, lol