To say that giving over a 1000 children experimental drugs that could irreversibly change their development has been over politicised, is a shameful statement.
This is really poor reporting. Completely unbalanced. Aidan Kelly owns a private gender clinic that won’t make much money if he can’t prescribe puberty blockers. Try harder!
It is a shame that people that are against bad things, like the conduct of IDF in Gaza, also support crazy stuff like kids been given untested and life altering hormones. Makes it hard to agree with them...
You two know perfectly well that Dr. Cass was not able to assess the effects of the treatment. You know perfectly well that she was refused access to the data of the treated children the moment these children became adults. The information is available, but being held back. We want to know what became of those children. Treated on experimental basis for more than 20 years.
It is disingenuous to say broadly that puberty blockers have been used safely for many years. They have been used in specific situations like prostate cancer, endometriosis, and precocious puberty. You cannot draw the same conclusions about the risk/side ffect profile of their use in adult populations for certain cancers or endometriosis as with paediatric population in precocious puberty. The same can be said for the use puberty blockers in precocious puberty (which is the suppression of early puberty due to a central causes) against the use of them in halting normal puberty in physiologically healthy children to treat gender dysphoria. They are not the same thing at all. All the Cass report is saying is right now is the evidence is currently poor for this specific indication and so we should take our time to ensure appropriate mental health services are in place for these vulnerable young people, and have clincal trials in this country only with good follow up so we can draw more valid conclusions at that time.
@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxsand you ignore therapeutic index and risk reward. You ignore that the benefits of taking the drug in certain circumstances far out ways the risk of not using and therefore prove acceptable treatment. The evidence points to this not being the case for children with gender dysphoria
@@youyou3671 really provide with me as it’s been proven by the meta studies by the university of Pittsburgh, university of Cambridge snd others thst it leads to better mental health outcomes. So what evidence apart from the discredit claim that kids just grow out of it do you have
@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs"she ignores studies that show its fine" She went to 7 gender clinics for adults and 6 of them refused to give her any data on their patients to see how they were going after treatment. Your frankenstien "doctors" did the exact opposite of what your saying.
Yep, that's where we are. The only people left are those trying to defend the indefensible, because the alternative is to accept that they've got this badly, horribly, dangerously wrong for years and have been smearing and cancelling the wrong people.
The ideologues in the comments are really embarrassing themselves. Ig you can only stick your head in the sand for so long tho. And it is hard to confront the genuine horror of the reality of what you’ve been openly supporting.
No I'm a scientist medical studies have a 60% non repeatability, so they have cherry picked one study ignoring all others so it's already likely wrong. The you look at the hundreds of not thousands of studies which make up the vast majority of the scientific literature and you find the opposite conclusions. This report is people just cherry picking a result they like and finding an excuse to exclude any they don't, which is the exact opposite of science and the scientific method.
Everyone is an ideologue except you. The so called study is completely bullshit that for some curious reason rejected 50 studies on trans people because they didn't conform to the result Cass wanted
@@brendadarling7743 The cult that has turned a personal social and medical decision of the rare few in an already scapegoated misrepresented minority into an obsession and political football to gain political power, and popularity, to fearmonger to the misinformed masses, get rich quick off the suffering of the marginalized outliers.
Is this a joke. No one is asking for randomised control testing. The report is robust, and the evidence is that this has been the biggest medical scandal of recent times.
Incorrect. The evidence was overwhelmingly there, but it was not considered because in their words they weren't "double blinded controlled studies" with the issues as described in the video.
Natacha's logic is backwards. You don't have randomised control trials for NOT providing a medication. You have them to prove the efficacy and safety of a medication that you're going to offer. This is just embarrassing.
On the contrary, she makes a fantastic point. If you consider that we're talking about 1000 people over 10 years, and you want randomised control studies to recommend a specific treatment, then you're effectively saying there will be no treatment at all. Large studies in medicine (especially for pharmaceutical compounds) comprise hundreds of thousands to millions of patients being evaluated over the course of many years. Conducting such research is only possible because there is big money to be earned by pharmaceutical companies, and it is also the reason why drug research is a gigantic and absolutely elite business model (see the maker of Ozempic eclipsing the entire economy of Denmark, its parent country). There will never be such studies on trans youths, unless we approach the subject on a world-wide scale, the numbers just aren't there. This entire "issue" has been manufactured and blown completely out of proportion by a right wing culture war machine. We are in essence talking about a couple of dozen kids per year on the scale of a population of dozens of millions of people (UK). That's not even a fraction of a percentage point, you're talking one or two in a million, but absolutely everyone just has to have an opinion on it.
You do if the medication is the current standard of care and has been for some time. When designing your RCT, you have to be able to justify withdrawing a treatment which has evidence of efficacy and safety (even observational evidence). If your alternative already has observational evidence suggesting it isn't effective, that is a very hard sell to an ethics committee. There is a reason ~55% of paediatric management with strong recommendations are based on observational evidence. Doing RCTs in paediatric populations is very challenging from an ethical perspective.
and in addition to above posters - doing nothing is _not_ a neutral action. Going through puberty introduces all sorts of sometimes non-reversable changes.
Dr Kelly advertising his private clinic does not imply his opinion is unbiased in any way. If someone gets paid to have a certain opinion I take that opinion with a pinch of salt.
It must be hard to come to terms with what you've championed and supported. Just know that the window where ignorance is an excuse is rapidly closing. The public is getting extremely tired and angry at this, and the ones that still try and push this on children despite the amounting evidence against it, well, don't say you weren't warned.
Central to the report is the lack of evidence. That's lack of evidence for OR against. So there's no 'mounting evidence' unless you are challenging the report. Can you provide some stats for 'the public getting extremely tired and angry'?
I'm challenging the report, it's bullshit and Cass should lose her licence, she's already retracted half of the statements in an interview. This 'report' lacks any scientific process and it's methods are a joke. Cass rejected 98% if studies she looked at and cherry picked the ones that agreed with her. (it's unethical to do blind or double blind studies on kids and hence isn't done, and it's just physically impossible to do a blind or double blind study on hormones that have body wide changes due to the fact that the doctor and patient will notice wether or not the patient grows tits.
What are you talking about? You are literally assigned the label of female or male at birth by the hospital and it is recorded on your birth certificate. The assignation is generally based on visual assessment of the genitals, but misses things like chromosome differences and internal reproductive differences in intersex people. Your assigned sex at birth has massive impact on your life- for example, millions of babies assigned female at birth throughout Asia are murdered in infancy (before they have any sense of gender) because they are deemed 'less worthy' than male babies in heavily patriarchal cultures. Assigned sex at birth is extremely impactful on the individual's life experience and social treatment.
@@bloodbuddy7it is not an assignment at all, it is simply an observation and acknowledgement, calling it an assignment suggests that sex is arbitrary and someone made a decision, which is not the case
@@babysis6.059 Imagine if all life was like this. You'd have to assign cathood to your cat and doghood to your dog before being able to say what species they are, and assign the fact that your dinner is a bowl of pasta before knowing what you're eating. Rather than simply opening your eyes and observing the bleeding obvious.
Does NM really not know the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist? Dr Kelly is not a medical Doctor. A psychologist cannot make a diagnosis, cannot prescribe medicine or manage treatment for Trans people. Genuinely the ignorance of using Dr Kelly as an authority is just mind numbingly stupid
@@davidparry5310 A High Court judge rules on matters of law after taking in experty opinion, so clearly they can weigh in when law or breaches of the law have occurred so your point is irrelevant
@davidparry5310 but is clearly a medical Doctor, and specialises in paediatric care, again reiterating my point that psychologists aren't Doctors, you would be stupid to accept a diagnosis or medication from someone like Jordan Peterson wouldn't you
The Cass Report is not controversial, it's evidence based. The gender industry refused to submit any evidence because they don't want the scrutiny. They were invited and ghosted the enquiry because they are engaged commercially in the provision of a service.
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7scbecause you say so? Science and the discipline of clinical governance doesn't say so. The Gender industry boycotted the enquiry just so they could claim it was biased. It still isn't.
@@davidosilverman900 I’ve seen lists of downgraded studies becuase they didn’t have a double blind. You ethically or practically cannot do a double blind with gender care. Disregarding these studies because of this is either bias or incompetence.
Yes, the majority of people are horrified at the Cass review revelations of the experimental and unethical actions of activists driving the medicalisation of pubertal distress.
@@nataliekhanyola5669 this study Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence Shows that there is a 1% regret rate to transition. The average for any other medical procedure is 14% and we aren't debating that.
Absolutely. I used to contribute to Novara but this report shows a shameful lack of integrity. They only talk to those within their own bubble. This was journalism of the lowest quality.
@@robbiespence6504 'She's smart as fresh paint and has written one of the most important books on the gender issue.' Translation: 'She confirms my prejudices, and has kindly devoted her time to writing a propaganda tract that lends justification to them.' Nice try.
Did Michael reallly say the report was 'controversial' because it stated there was no evidence to show giving kids life altering drugs was a good idea?
No the report is bullshit becase it ignores hundreds if not thousands of studies that disagree with its conclusions and has cherry picked the one study that the authors of the study already agreed with. I medicine there 60% of studies aren't repeatable so if you ignore hundreds of studies that disagree with the one you chose you have inevitably chosen a study that is wrong and non repeatable. If you want the non repeatability solved then the government would need to run a science centre to specifically repeat experiments becase study repeats don't get funding.
@@Khornelia well done for repeating a ‘fact’ you read in your echo chamber without having the critical faculties to investigate it fully. There were numerous weak studies with poor evidence that were given less weight in the report against ones with stronger evidence.
@@antonydavis2764 They dismissed all of these studies for lack of "double-blindness", then in an interview with The Kite Trust said themselves that double blind studies wouldn't be appropriate in this case. You should look it up they backpedal so much in that single interview.
@@Khornelia an expert in her field was recruited to investigate and write a report but she obviously did a bad job. It’s lucky we’ve so many scientists and experts in the TRA community to tell Dr Cass where she went wrong. The amount of people aching to justify giving experimental drugs to children is astonishing and will be seen as one of the great medical scandals when we look back at it.
@@KarenRaver 'assigned at birth' really is a nonsense phrase. Most people regard the left as laughing stock now because of this linguistic stupidity. For 99% or more of babies, someone looks and you are either male or female. Enough of this irrational fiction.
This phrase is important but has been bastardised by trans ideologues and activists. It should only be used in extremely rare cases of genital abnormalities. In such cases recording sex based on observation is problematic or impossible. In ALL other cases sex is being OBSERVED and RECORDED.
It's really very simple. Nobody can walk into a hospital and demand a specific, potentially harmful, treatment without proper medical assessment and diagnosis. Support children in all aspects of their mental health. All children. Speaking as a former young adult psychotherapist, school environments present many dangers to the mental health of children. We need to look at the bigger picture.
@@LeftPhilip I was recently assessed by a doctor because I had a bad cough. I was diagnosed with bronchitis and treated with antibiotics. What if I had been not been properly assessed, and, based on that one symptom, was treated for lung cancer? Would that be good medical practice? The Cass report indicated that children are not being properly assessed and directed to one specific medical intervention, having presented with a medical condition which may require, not only further assessment to confirm or deny, but radically different treatment. Is the Cass report wrong about this? A child is no more a psychiatrist, than I am an oncologist. Cancer patients do not campaign for all children with a cough to skip proper medical assessment and be treated for cancer. Why is this medical intervention different from any other? Yes, improve awareness, stop kids being bullied, fund better services for trans children, shorten the waiting lists. Nobody wants to deny them access to treatment. But do it properly. It's not controversial. It's not transphobic. Myself and many other children I grew up with were bullied relentlessly for being different, and I'm sure there are many children going through the same thing today, for many different reasons. No children being bullied means no trans children being bullied. 15 years working in education, including many as a therapist for young adults, taught me there's still a lot to be done for all children, and trans are children included in this. I know it's not all about the bullying, but when there is no fully appropriate and risk-free medical intervention for a disabling medical condition, you support that person in every other way possible to alleviate their suffering. The Cass report indicated this is not being done. At least on this, we should be able to agree.
Earlier I was thinking of this analogy: I'm generally an advocate for ADHD medication. But if someone said _"Don't you think we're over-prescribing it to children, with little understanding of the long-term effects?"_ I would say _"That's a totally reasonable concern, and something we should be studying."_ It just wouldn't be cogent to respond: _"Listen to the activists, and trust the diagnostic criteria. Don't you think neurodivergent children know what's best for themselves? Do you want to go back to a time where those children are abandoned to a life of failure and misery, and potential suicide? This concern is often driven by bigotry."_ Because even if some of those arguments have some merit, none of them refute the original concern.
@@andybrice2711 but would you remove access to the treatment in the meantime? I guess that's the bit people worry about. Also it's easier to have a double blind trial for ADHD medication as the effects are not so noticeable so it's not a perfect equivalent.
Disappointing episode - Michael is very underprepared for interviews on this subject (the admission of not having read the report doesn’t help). This probably explains the very average calibre of his interviewees. Not up to the usual standard.
@@blacktele7215 how? she is a doctor of childrens medicine, if all the polls are to be believed the labour party will be next in power and they love all this stuff, and all this stuff happened under the tories no matter what they may say publicly.
@@GreatSageSunWukong Dr Kelly is also a doctor of children's medicine. By your logic he can't be biased either. The story literally showed that Labor fully support the report findings. Both parties being in line only increases the possibility that the report may be biased in that direction.
I'm encouraged to read the comments here because the reporting in this segment is appalling. "Controversial"? The release of Cass has caused the BBC to gulp, The Guardian to gulp, Owen Jones looks like he got hit by a truck and even Pink News went straight with its reporting, which was really quite something to behold. Natacha Kennedy complains about the lack of RCTs when WPATH cobbles together its 'Standards of Care' (which aren't standards of care any more than the Ministry of Defence is about defence) largely from anecdotes about 'lived experience' and in practice appears opposed to RCTs on puberty blockers and other aspects of trans healthcare. For instance, it has been argued that since they take it as a given, based on this anecdotal evidence, that puberty blockers are safe and effective, it would be *unethical* to withhold them from any cohort deemed in need of them, as would be necessary in any RCT. By starting with their conclusion on these drugs, they precluded all attempts to verify their claims by conducting RCTs. But now they want RCTs from Cass. If there was a hell for these ghouls to go to... I hope it's especially hot.
That’s not what puberty blockers do. They only delay the process until you stop taking them, after that you still go through a normal puberty. There *is* reports that it negatively affects height and bone density, but these are only in negligible amounts. With trans related care, they’re simply so the individual has time to think about whether or not they want to go with the treatment without starting what could be the wrong puberty, which is not only irreversible but deeply traumatic.
Having full control over your own private medical decisions, and the private medicinal decisions parents make for their children, without government interference is also a human right.
@@borkingborker5567 No it isn't. Nobody anywhere actually believes that parents have a "human right" to inflict whatever experimental medical treatment they like upon their children.
@@borkingborker5567 children can not give consent for such things, puberty blockers do not give time to think if they freeze mental development there will be no change in feelings. telling parents do you want a dead daughter or a living son is not an unbiased act.
@@jeffbo8748 there's no such thing as the "wrong puberty", only puberty. And no... young boys still won't develop into women or girls just because they are put through this damaging "care", they're still male.
only a thousand young bodies destroyed is no biggie for you? Dear god have a word with yourself. As for your guests - they are sticking by damaging kids, what can I possibly say, this is simply awful, you should all be utterly ashamed
Cass said there was no evidence for the efficacy (because she dismissed all the studies) of gender affirming care for children, but she also didn't present any evidence for harm caused by it, so... stop lying.
@@connernickerson5509 In order to qualify as an ideology, something has to entail an analysis of the existing social order, an idea of how to preserve or change that social order and, in the latter case, an idea of what to change it _to._ Please explain to me how 'trans ideology' has those three things.
'trans ideology' is simply a sensationalist term made up by transphobes. If transgender people share an 'ideology' then by the same standards so is cis an ideology and they would each be of equal value.
it has nothing to do with feelings, it has to do with the fact that you do not give medication to children without clinical tests because there was once a sentence in a Dutch paper, those people had long discovered that it was not correct, only Transactivists have abused it Dr Aidan should take away his tittle, because there is a thing, first DO NO HARM childeren on Pubertyblockkers is grotesque
So you're campaigning for the removal puberty blockers for cis children in the treatment for precious puberty, which have been successfully used for almost 40 years? Or is it just transgender teenagers you demand that puberty blockers are banned from?
No if you ignore 99.9% of scientific studies and cherry pick literally one study that agrees with you that's called bias. The facts are that there is less than a 1% regret rate in transition as opposed to the average of 14% regret rate for any other medical procedure. Edit: she only ignored 98% of the studies she looked at.
22:00 It's great how until now trans activists said that their beliefs were backed by science and now it changed to "it may be impossible to assess safety with science, so let kids experiment with treatments".
@@tabbymoonshine5986 as a scientist that funds tg research, I’m actually well qualified to offer suggestions. Let’s start with mental health and not chemical castration.
its about time common sense came back and the NHS remembered their remit to do no harm. and nothing in the Cass report is anything we didn't already know years ago the first whistleblower was in 2011.
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc facts don't care about your feelings and feelings are never a good basis for anything, feelings is how Fascism starts. read some history and cultivate your critical and analytical thinking skills
I wish she would run as an independent, theres no reason for her to go down with that ship, its like being stuck in an abusive relationship I don't know why she stays
Novara Media, isn’t it about time you interviewed people like Helen Joyce, or Hannah Barnes, or Genspect on this issue: you need to move outside your echo chamber on this one. Interviewing such well informed and intelligent people would clearly take you well outside your comfort zone but Novara Media might be be better off for it …
Natasha Kennedy’s tirade about children’s human rights was bordering on absurd. I’m all for trans rights and greater access to trans related healthcare and support, but the idea that children, particularly teenagers, should be prescribed hormone blockers because it’s a human right is so anti scientific I can’t believe it’s taken seriously. We do not know the long term consequences of these treatments since our database is not large enough yet. We absolutely have to be careful about pursuing chemical treatments and we absolutely should be pursuing support in other ways before getting to the point where you may need hormone therapy.
Wild baseless claims. Hormones used in certain conditions have an evidence base. The whole Cass report shows convincingly that their use in trans ‘healthcare’ do not. Your wild proclamations are at the very least unevidenced.
“If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” Referrals to Taverstock and gender clinics presented a problem when it is clear from the patient data that most had 5 or more mental health comorbidities including anxiety, depression, autism, neurodivergence eating disorders as well as gender dysphoria it is unsurprising that the gender clinics only provided gender affirming care rather than assess the likelihood of other factors influencing the gender dysphoria. Gender affirming care ideologically will not investigate causes of gender dysphoria but simply affirms the gender identity and sets the patient on a trans gender conveyor belt based on limited evidence.
Gender dysphoria will increase depression, anxiety, eating disorder etc. when not given timely gender affirming care. Autism is higher because autistics don't follow society rules so are more likely to follow their internal gender
People with autism, depression, anxiety and eating disorders can have legit gender dysphoria. It’s crazy to think that those conditions should exclude someone from receiving treatment. Surely, the issue is that underfunding these services means they can’t deliver on them properly, not that we should cut them altogether. But that’s the Tory solution to everything.
How would there be a randomized controlled trial to observe a hospital offering only one treatment pathway. You can wear what you want without going to a doctor. If they're going to a doctor its because they want medical treatment.
Wella actually yeah. They did a meta study of all the studies and found that people had improvement when they started to transition by wearing clothes. They found people did not have a further improvement by having theur knackers off. So in terms of outcome yeah ...those things seem to be the same... in a way. If having your knackers off doesnt imrpove upon the improvement of anything id say keep wearing the dress.
Yeah it is insane. Everyone knows what they were born as, it is quiet evident when the parents and the doctor observe the babies genetalia. Even before that, the gender of the baby can be observed early on through scans :)
No more insane than saying heterosexuals can be attracted to each other age 16 years old but homosexuals have to be 21 years old (if they are even allowed at all).
As one person said, they are focussing on the wrong issue - They want to fix things for trans people, they should focus on reducing waiting lists, not stopping treatments. Its worth pointing out that firstly no-one gets hormone therapy *until* they come of age and there is *no* suggestion they are going to stop using Blockers for cis children with precocious puberty, so why all the preciousness about using them for Trans kids to give them time to find themselves? Forcing children to undergo a puberty they don't want, to go through irreversible, or hard to reverse, changes to their bodies, is completely unethical.
The Cass Review is only "controversial" to Novara Media because it contradicts the progressive narrative; the report's "verdict" (actually a list of conclusions and recommendations) is full of compassion and common sense, neither of which are "controversial" at all!
@@nakedenbywoah people in your echo chamber liked your comment. While ignoring the majority of the comments in this echo chamber are against NM video 😂
I think if you asked the public specifically on whether they thought there should be a moratorium on medical interventions on children you might find it's not that controversial
You so sure about that? Does the public agree that we should not at all give any medical interventions (also known as treatment) to children? May not go down the way you suspect. I think children should recieve all life-saving interventions. I think children should be given chemotherapy if that is what the majority of major medical practices say is the appropriate treatment. I think children should be given inhalers if that is what the majority of major medical practices say is the appropriate treatment. But you know, I may just be completely out of touch with other members of the public. 🤷♂ Edit: I'm an idiot and just realised what you meant. I totally agree that I don't think the public would find it controversial at all. Apologies.
@@GruffaloBalls Sure, let's go with that and apply it to everyone, then. That means the two-year-olds going through precious puberty don't have any means to pause that puberty until they reach an appropriate age. 🙄 By the way, as someone who's been on puberty blockers when I was a legal child, the worst part was the hoops I had to jump through to get to the medication, not the results of the blockers on my body, that I purposefully intended on having. 🤷
@@MsColl90 i think the point is about trans kids having barriers to care that cis people don’t have, like the gender dysphoria diagnosis by a gp. Just makes it take so much longer, that’s it
Children receiving the wrong healthcare is everybody's business. The Cass Report found a lack of Safeguarding, the use of harmful drugs being used without evidence and no evidence to suggest suicide rates rise when children wait.
You can have your life in peace if you do not shout from every rooftops that children must be sexualised. The society is very accepting these days but most parents will stay and fight for the wellbeing of their children and protect them from being brainwashed by trans-cultists,
Mindless slogans like this, thought-terminating cliches as someone memorably put it recently, are exactly why many people are sick of the left, or at least what passes for the left these days.
22:59 sadly, yes, these studies take time. Which is why they should’ve been being done the entire time you were prescribing a medication for off-label use and messing w endocrine systems. Even if it was an observational study it would’ve given them SOMETHING. It’s impossible for these doctors to see it another way, because then they would have to admit they were somehow acting in not the best care. You can’t experiment on children. Period. So why did you? Gender identity in children and adolescents must remain non-medicalized, and focused on their mental health. Then as an adult 18+ they can make their choices regarding medications and surgery. I really think this is being made more confusing than in needs to be.
The medications have been used for children for decades and are know to be safe in children. Doctors have been using observational studies for the whole time they have been prescribing for trans kids. The problem with this 'report' is that it literally ignores hundreds if not thousands of studies and only looked at the kne study that agreed with what they already thought. Published studies in medicine have been shown to be non repeatable at a rate of roughly 60%. When you pick out one study which disagrees with the vast majority of studies, that study is almost certainly bullshit.
@@jackoh991 because the medications had been studied for precocious puberty and shown to be effective for that reason- (it stopped the early puberty but did not stop them from going thru puberty at the appropriate time, ie the drugs were stopped and physiologic processes were allowed to continue). The way it’s used in gender medicine is to stop puberty at its appropriate time, followed by cross sex hormones. So the child is unable to go thru the biological puberty their body needs to go thru. This physician claims not many people ever received the drugs across Europe and UK, but no one actually knows how many people received them, what their side effects were, or have completed follow ups on their growth, bone density, brains, etc. not to mention all the people in the U.S. and Canada. NO ONE thought to actively track these patients. I understand the point both doctors were making about the ethical problem with doing double blind studies. My point is that giving medications to appease a psychological discomfort by way of halting a physiologically necessary process and causing changes to appearance by cross sex hormones at the expense of a persons natural endocrine processes should give providers pause to consider. Additionally, you have to consider if a child or teen really could possibly understand what it is they are doing. It really feels common sense from an ethical perspective to me 😢
@@Beserious795 gender affirming care saves lives, and that feels like common sense to me to do whatever saves lives. Gender affirming care should be age appropriate. Before the age of 16 medicine is used to pause puberty but not promote the chosen gender. Surgery is held off until 18. To me that seems age appropriate
@@jackoh991 we can agree to disagree and that’s okay. We sit on opposite sides on this topic as most do and unfortunately why the work and research has never been done properly. It’s not that I don’t have compassion and empathy, my daughter is trans identified. No one wants people to be suffering. I’ve done my own research for years now and why I feel so passionately and strongly about it in minors. I’m glad the Cass report was done and am hopeful for further advances in evidence based care 💟
That's frankly all they have, a bunch of alt accounts and a lot of time on their hands (now that their children don't want to see them anymore with reason).
FWIW, I'm a regular Novara listener and subscriber, though I have signed in with a new account. It's disgraceful how much bullying, name-calling and shouting down people on the left have to endure from their own side just because they believe in logic and science. The number of people I've heard quietly whisper gender critical comments that they'd never say out loud.
I'm in the US now, and trying to explain the NHS and how that impacts societal discourse is so difficult to explain. I was asked how Cass could possibly have expertise, despite her experience working with the most vulnerable/disabled children, and doing hundreds of interviews for affected users in the review. One thing that is overlooked is that given the NHS is a truly public system, NHS doctors that work across the country, in GIDS, or cities will certainly see all aspects of society, classes, races, religions etc., which is a unique and invaluable perspective when you are trying to form a general understanding of the public impact of a health policy. Often in the US clinics (and Private UK clinics), the patients are already incredibly self-selected, and so doesn't really provide the same perspective, I think that should be taken into account when listening to the opinions of private doctors like Dr. Kelly
Noooo. @natacha Kennedy a haircut is not the same as allowing puberty blockers for children. Seriously, it’s already weird that this group keeps targeting children. Keep your eye on the 18+ crew. Why do they keep coming after children?
Natasha Kennedy is speaking fallacies regarding the evidence used. Two high quality and over 50 medium quality studies were used. Pooling data from medium sized studies (that may be underpowered due to sample size) can strengthen the level of evidence. On the other hand a poorly constructed study cannot be relied upon for robust evidence. That is why they were discarded. This shows a) that Natasha does not know the scientific method and b) they did not read the Cass review properly.
This is just so ill-informed! Did any of you read the Cass Review? It's so fair and even-handed...with the safety of children at its core. How can you defend the rights of big pharma and private clinics such as Dr Kelly's, over the research of Dr Cass and York University? Your prejudices are showing.
@@connor5669 Then perhaps they should find comfort and answers from within. Is invasive medication and mutilation of our one and only physical body really the answer to ones suffering, ever?
The reason Michael thinks both sides sound reasonable on the Cass report is a serious lack of awareness of transphobic tropes. Both interviews were a long list of dog whistles. I'm glad you had Natasha on, but this still felt like well-meaning cis people with a lack of knowledge of transphobia grossly underestimating it while discussing our lives and liberties, again. You assign them good intentions when the opposite is clear. First time I've been disappointed in Novara
Can’t help but agree. It really feels as though Novara have a blind spot when it comes to trans issues. Thought they’d have the good sense to choose a host/co-host that was aware enough of the issues to provide a robust rebuttal to the report and place it in its wider context
With "transphobic tropes" you mean arguments, right? You are saying "you need to know their talking points to dismiss them as such right away". But that's what a bigot does, that's what prejudice is. We need to engage with the arguments, not just dismiss them. Also, if by your "liberties" you mean putting children in life-long medical pathways without any resistance from *anybody* even if studies are saying puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones have irreversible consequences, and there's a big influence done by social media, then that's the wrong word you used right there.
Why is it always middle aged men being interviewed as representatives of the trans community. If the surge relates to teenage girls, why are NM not interviewing young(ish) women rather than men?
Jesus, the transphobes are out in force in the comment section. I thought this was Novara, not the fucking Sun. Love and solidarity to my queer comrades in the UK, at this dark time.
you are a very small minority and shrinking by the day, not because of some dastardly plot but because people are waking up to whats going on and how abhorrent it is, many of us lefties are now politically homeless but its a price worth paying.
@@GreatSageSunWukong Lol, you've taken the trouble to comment, as have many, precisely because your perception is that the numbers are rising and you feel your conservative world is threatened. Thank you for giving us all a chuckle.
No such thing as trans. There are, however, people for whom transition is the only way to ameliorate their suffering, and we should be compassionate towards them.
I wonder if the numbers of teenage females presenting with anorexia, bulimia or self harming has remained the same as usual over the period of time that the numbers of females presenting to the gender identity service apparently rose in higher numbers than historical levels.
I’ll tell my friend’s trans son that his taking puberty blockers as he started entering puberty and was incredibly distressed at what was happening to his body was an assault, and his mother should be blamed for this.
@@connernickerson5509 my goodness. There is no such thing as a child that has been “sterilised” as you put it. What kind of planet are you living on if you think that this sort of thing is happening? Maybe you should get to know a free trans kids, or adults, to find out what sort of things they are going through, before you make such ridiculous comments.
"It would be great if we had evidence, but we don't and we need to allow these kids to make irreversible decisions that might ruin their lives or they.. they.. they might have to wait!"
The Gender Ideology lobby don't speak for "The Left". I'm Left, when it comes to economic policy, foreign policy etc. I also respect facts, logic and evidence and can see that gender ideology is bunk. There are plenty on the Left like me; hopefully this report will take some of the wind out of the bullying atmosphere that makes them unwilling to say so in public.
@@GruffaloBalls Read up on the causes for gender incongruence, and you'd learn that there's a scientific basis. For one example, trans women are more likely than cis men to have "a longer version of a receptor gene for the sex hormone androgen, which reduces its effectiveness at binding testosterone." Furthermore, a "variant genotype for the CYP17 gene, which acts on the sex hormones pregnenolone and progesterone, has been found to be linked to transsexuality in trans men but not in trans women. Most notably, transmasculine subjects not only had the variant genotype more frequently, but had an allele distribution equivalent to cisgender male controls, unlike the cisgender female controls. The paper concluded that the loss of a female-specific CYP17 T -34C allele distribution pattern is associated with transmasculinity." See, science!
@@Unknown-ov2kz Were those measurements/analyses done before or after drug use was started? Was there a correction for homo/bisexuality? What were the standard deviations? What was the n for each group? Was there a control group, and was this age- and BMI- and sexuality- matched? What you state is more like evidence for variety within sexes than evidence for the idea that you can be "born in the wrong body" or that a male can somehow be a woman.
The issue for me is children and young people (under 25)… Perhaps dealing with the mental health comorbidities may also eliminate the supposed gender dysphoria as Individuals seeking Gender affirming care perhaps due to social media, peer groups and self identifying as a cure all for their mental health issues… medicalising mental health with cross sex hormones and surgery for vulnerable people is unethical and should be illegal!!!
My issue is anyone with a mental health condition, age shouldn't come into it, there are very vulnerable people with mental health problems at all ages. if you start saying there should be strict controls for children only then your opening the door for people with downs syndrome, autism, multiple personality disorder and all sorts being affirmed just because they are old enough when they clearly can not consent. I'm a parent of a teenager with autism, he can't even tie shoe laces, I've tried many times to teach him, everything is very delayed (well I hope he's delayed and he learns eventually).
@@GreatSageSunWukong Perfectly adequate controls already exist. None of the demographics you mentioned should be excluded from making decisions about their gender if they have mental capacity.
@@nakedenby clearly perfectly adequate controls do not exist, what do you know of CAMHs or the NHS mental health service in general? its no surprise they jumped on this silly ideology rather then do their job which takes time and far more money, therapists and councilors are extremely expensive and NHS mental health services are severally understaffed especially since Brexit.
I appreciate the balanced conversation here. It's hard to find cause both sides in this debate seem to be exaggerating what the report means. For the record, I agree with the government stance here; until there is sufficient evidence of its benefits for trans youth, puberty blockers should be banned. The report however does not undo the stacks of evidence that HRT is beneficial to the lives of trans adults and so it's not the death knell to 'trans ideology' that some transphobes are purporting it to be. Remember whatever your stance is on this issue that the goal here is to ensure that as many people as possible can get their healthcare needs met. You may not fully understand trans peoples' needs but the majority them are just trying to live their best lives and would rather be left alone instead of having their right to exist constantly questioned online and in the media.
Nice cherry picking, if you listened further, you would realize they said they are asking for a high standard of evidence then are ignoring findings they don't like, because they don't consider good enough.
this reporting on the cass review is shockingly bad and everyone associated with novara should be ashamed of themselves. i've put up with too much bollocks from you lot because there really is no other news source with even rudimentary journalistic standards, but you do not get to 'both sides' the issue of trans rights and keep me as a subscriber. trans liberation now, goodbye
There lies the problem. Cult members equating the abhorrence of child mutilation and experimentation as transphobia. If that is what that word has come to mean, millions will wear the title with pride
@@clairhonnor6211 Don't judge others by your own standards. I'm not writing it as an insult - it's an adjective and a noun in that order. It has in fact never been an insult - but if you feel it was one then maybe it's because you're uncomfortable that the description might apply to you - trying to reclaim it as a badge will go the same way as it did for the TERFs
Your logic fails you by presuming that being trans is inherently sexual. It has nothing to do with a child being a "sexual being" as you so disgustingly put it, but rather how a child understands their gender identity and how they would prefer to express themselves to the world. I imagine you likely see yourself as a man or a woman, correct? How would you feel if someone forced you to identify in a way that did not make you feel comfortable or affirmed in your identity? Surely that would cause you some amount of distress. But for some reason those of your ilk continue to spread this nonsense of it being about sex. It isn't.
@@RealityHasAWokeBiashere comes the " A woman is anything you want it to be" brigade. You guys and logic are like same end of the magnet. they repel each other!
@@connor5669 I don't know what point you are making, but yes, they can't double-blind hormone therapy without treating patients unethically, which is of course wrong. The stupid thing is Trans kids *don't get hormones* They get blockers, at best, and all those do is pause physical puberty. What is worse, they *still use* blockers for cis kids suffering precocious puberty. ITs a ludicrous double standard and ideologically driven by someone brought in by to Tories to deliberately mess with trans kids. Literally every other western country follows the well respected WPATH guidelines. This includes in the other nations within the UK. It is only this ideologically-driven attack on trans rights that has led to the Cass Report situation in England & Wales.
The review isn't "controversial". The behaviour of the people that made the review necessary is "controversial".
A bunch of insecurities go's with the toxic trans mafia!!!...
...they can't handle reality 😪 😕 😫 😴 💯%...get a little love in your heart ♥️
To say that giving over a 1000 children experimental drugs that could irreversibly change their development has been over politicised, is a shameful statement.
There's no evidence that it irreversibly changes their development, and it _has_ been over-politicised, tremendously so.
It has been politicized by trans activists, though.
And still people on here defending it.
@@clairhonnor6211 Defending trans youth with physical gender dysphoria getting the healthcare that they need? Absolutely.
This is really poor reporting. Completely unbalanced. Aidan Kelly owns a private gender clinic that won’t make much money if he can’t prescribe puberty blockers. Try harder!
It is a shame that people that are against bad things, like the conduct of IDF in Gaza, also support crazy stuff like kids been given untested and life altering hormones. Makes it hard to agree with them...
@@orchidhealth2097 hormones have been used for decades.
@@LeftPhilip not for the opposite sex they have not
Bingo!!
I'm pretty sure it's the pharmaceutical firms that profit from puberty blocker prescriptions, so ... this complaint makes no sense.
This programme just shows how the standards of honest journalism have fallen. Dreadful
You two know perfectly well that Dr. Cass was not able to assess the effects of the treatment. You know perfectly well that she was refused access to the data of the treated children the moment these children became adults. The information is available, but being held back. We want to know what became of those children. Treated on experimental basis for more than 20 years.
You need a million likes on this comment
Hysterical BS.
@@davidparry5310
Not bs- nhs is being asked to force them to reveal the data
@@jackdaniels4368 It is hysteria whipped up by a bunch of bigots.
@@davidparry5310
stop
It is disingenuous to say broadly that puberty blockers have been used safely for many years. They have been used in specific situations like prostate cancer, endometriosis, and precocious puberty. You cannot draw the same conclusions about the risk/side ffect profile of their use in adult populations for certain cancers or endometriosis as with paediatric population in precocious puberty. The same can be said for the use puberty blockers in precocious puberty (which is the suppression of early puberty due to a central causes) against the use of them in halting normal puberty in physiologically healthy children to treat gender dysphoria. They are not the same thing at all.
All the Cass report is saying is right now is the evidence is currently poor for this specific indication and so we should take our time to ensure appropriate mental health services are in place for these vulnerable young people, and have clincal trials in this country only with good follow up so we can draw more valid conclusions at that time.
She ignores peer reviewed studies that show it’s fine
@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxsand you ignore therapeutic index and risk reward. You ignore that the benefits of taking the drug in certain circumstances far out ways the risk of not using and therefore prove acceptable treatment. The evidence points to this not being the case for children with gender dysphoria
@@youyou3671 really provide with me as it’s been proven by the meta studies by the university of Pittsburgh, university of Cambridge snd others thst it leads to better mental health outcomes. So what evidence apart from the discredit claim that kids just grow out of it do you have
@@youyou3671 absolutely you need to manage the risk reward of any medical procedure. However the benefits and risks are explained to patients
@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs"she ignores studies that show its fine"
She went to 7 gender clinics for adults and 6 of them refused to give her any data on their patients to see how they were going after treatment.
Your frankenstien "doctors" did the exact opposite of what your saying.
'Controversial'? What planet are they on. Cass has exposed nothing less than child abuse on a mass scale. Shameful stuff and probably criminal.
I don't think novara media are that bad in general but on this stuff they are complete idologues
Agreed
Could be that they are maintaining the same stance and you are the ideologue on this issue?
You're embarrassing yourself, mate.
“Next up, we will be interviewing Benson & Hedges vice president about the health benefits of smoking. Stay tuned”
Spot on!! Novara (and many well meaning people on the left) need to admit they were wrong on this issue.
Yep, that's where we are. The only people left are those trying to defend the indefensible, because the alternative is to accept that they've got this badly, horribly, dangerously wrong for years and have been smearing and cancelling the wrong people.
Agreed: this report from Novara Media is not to their credit.
@@richmorris2870 I agree.
It's your position that's analogous to that of Benson and Hedges VP regarding smoking.
The complacency of tone in this episode is extraordinary.
The ideologues in the comments are really embarrassing themselves.
Ig you can only stick your head in the sand for so long tho. And it is hard to confront the genuine horror of the reality of what you’ve been openly supporting.
The cult is strong in some
No I'm a scientist medical studies have a 60% non repeatability, so they have cherry picked one study ignoring all others so it's already likely wrong.
The you look at the hundreds of not thousands of studies which make up the vast majority of the scientific literature and you find the opposite conclusions.
This report is people just cherry picking a result they like and finding an excuse to exclude any they don't, which is the exact opposite of science and the scientific method.
Everyone is an ideologue except you. The so called study is completely bullshit that for some curious reason rejected 50 studies on trans people because they didn't conform to the result Cass wanted
@@brendadarling7743 The cult that has turned a personal social and medical decision of the rare few in an already scapegoated misrepresented minority into an obsession and political football to gain political power, and popularity, to fearmonger to the misinformed masses, get rich quick off the suffering of the marginalized outliers.
Is this a joke. No one is asking for randomised control testing. The report is robust, and the evidence is that this has been the biggest medical scandal of recent times.
It's bullshit that ignores literally 99% of existing research. What part of that is "robust"
Incorrect. The evidence was overwhelmingly there, but it was not considered because in their words they weren't "double blinded controlled studies" with the issues as described in the video.
Natacha's logic is backwards. You don't have randomised control trials for NOT providing a medication. You have them to prove the efficacy and safety of a medication that you're going to offer. This is just embarrassing.
On the contrary, she makes a fantastic point. If you consider that we're talking about 1000 people over 10 years, and you want randomised control studies to recommend a specific treatment, then you're effectively saying there will be no treatment at all. Large studies in medicine (especially for pharmaceutical compounds) comprise hundreds of thousands to millions of patients being evaluated over the course of many years. Conducting such research is only possible because there is big money to be earned by pharmaceutical companies, and it is also the reason why drug research is a gigantic and absolutely elite business model (see the maker of Ozempic eclipsing the entire economy of Denmark, its parent country). There will never be such studies on trans youths, unless we approach the subject on a world-wide scale, the numbers just aren't there. This entire "issue" has been manufactured and blown completely out of proportion by a right wing culture war machine. We are in essence talking about a couple of dozen kids per year on the scale of a population of dozens of millions of people (UK). That's not even a fraction of a percentage point, you're talking one or two in a million, but absolutely everyone just has to have an opinion on it.
You do if the medication is the current standard of care and has been for some time.
When designing your RCT, you have to be able to justify withdrawing a treatment which has evidence of efficacy and safety (even observational evidence). If your alternative already has observational evidence suggesting it isn't effective, that is a very hard sell to an ethics committee.
There is a reason ~55% of paediatric management with strong recommendations are based on observational evidence. Doing RCTs in paediatric populations is very challenging from an ethical perspective.
and in addition to above posters - doing nothing is _not_ a neutral action. Going through puberty introduces all sorts of sometimes non-reversable changes.
@@solentforest And not going through puberty does the same and is problematic in terms of normal biological development
@@paulkazanvanfan1045 it isn't the same. Puberty can be restarted after taking puberty blockers.
Dr Kelly advertising his private clinic does not imply his opinion is unbiased in any way. If someone gets paid to have a certain opinion I take that opinion with a pinch of salt.
Yes, and you'd think anti capitalists would get that!
It must be hard to come to terms with what you've championed and supported. Just know that the window where ignorance is an excuse is rapidly closing. The public is getting extremely tired and angry at this, and the ones that still try and push this on children despite the amounting evidence against it, well, don't say you weren't warned.
Central to the report is the lack of evidence. That's lack of evidence for OR against. So there's no 'mounting evidence' unless you are challenging the report. Can you provide some stats for 'the public getting extremely tired and angry'?
@@nakedenbysimple. The Labour party and support this. That's 80% of the entire population of the UK.
@@nakedenbyyes there is a lack of evidence. SO STOP. Unless you like abusing children.
I'm challenging the report, it's bullshit and Cass should lose her licence, she's already retracted half of the statements in an interview. This 'report' lacks any scientific process and it's methods are a joke.
Cass rejected 98% if studies she looked at and cherry picked the ones that agreed with her. (it's unethical to do blind or double blind studies on kids and hence isn't done, and it's just physically impossible to do a blind or double blind study on hormones that have body wide changes due to the fact that the doctor and patient will notice wether or not the patient grows tits.
@@liam7342 Lol. Let's see your study, then.
No-one's "assigned" female or male at birth, Michael. Is that not obvious?
Right. At birth, one’s sex is observed and recorded.
What are you talking about? You are literally assigned the label of female or male at birth by the hospital and it is recorded on your birth certificate. The assignation is generally based on visual assessment of the genitals, but misses things like chromosome differences and internal reproductive differences in intersex people. Your assigned sex at birth has massive impact on your life- for example, millions of babies assigned female at birth throughout Asia are murdered in infancy (before they have any sense of gender) because they are deemed 'less worthy' than male babies in heavily patriarchal cultures. Assigned sex at birth is extremely impactful on the individual's life experience and social treatment.
@@bloodbuddy7it is not an assignment at all, it is simply an observation and acknowledgement, calling it an assignment suggests that sex is arbitrary and someone made a decision, which is not the case
@@babysis6.059 Imagine if all life was like this. You'd have to assign cathood to your cat and doghood to your dog before being able to say what species they are, and assign the fact that your dinner is a bowl of pasta before knowing what you're eating. Rather than simply opening your eyes and observing the bleeding obvious.
@@GruffaloBallsFalse equivalence.
Wow, open advertisement for a private health clinic practicing unevidenced treatment from Novara Media.
Like bollocks it's unevidenced treatment!
@@davidparry5310you seem ignorant of the Keira Bell case, which showed how careless GIDS was about collecting evidence.
@@robbiespence6504 That's just one individual anecdote, mate, and moreover,, it's an anecdote from an anti-vax conspiracy theorist nutter.
@@davidparry5310 It was enough to shutdown Tavistock. Good riddance.
@@Mr_user_1000 I suppose that that's all that matters to people like you.
Does NM really not know the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist? Dr Kelly is not a medical Doctor. A psychologist cannot make a diagnosis, cannot prescribe medicine or manage treatment for Trans people. Genuinely the ignorance of using Dr Kelly as an authority is just mind numbingly stupid
A psychologist is not completely lacking in relevant expertise, though, unlike those High Court judges responsible for that ruling back in 2020.
@@davidparry5310 A High Court judge rules on matters of law after taking in experty opinion, so clearly they can weigh in when law or breaches of the law have occurred so your point is irrelevant
@@CI-dh1rl Their _interpretation_ of that opinion isn't based on relevant expertise.
Another thing: Dr Cass also isn't a psychiatrist.
@davidparry5310 but is clearly a medical Doctor, and specialises in paediatric care, again reiterating my point that psychologists aren't Doctors, you would be stupid to accept a diagnosis or medication from someone like Jordan Peterson wouldn't you
The Cass Report is not controversial, it's evidence based. The gender industry refused to submit any evidence because they don't want the scrutiny. They were invited and ghosted the enquiry because they are engaged commercially in the provision of a service.
Exactly
No, it isn't. Is cherry picking based
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc Indeed so. Shameful.
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7scbecause you say so? Science and the discipline of clinical governance doesn't say so. The Gender industry boycotted the enquiry just so they could claim it was biased. It still isn't.
@@davidosilverman900 I’ve seen lists of downgraded studies becuase they didn’t have a double blind. You ethically or practically cannot do a double blind with gender care. Disregarding these studies because of this is either bias or incompetence.
The Cass report is not controversial. It has been met by universal acceptance and in many cases horror.
Not even remotely true
Yes, the majority of people are horrified at the Cass review revelations of the experimental and unethical actions of activists driving the medicalisation of pubertal distress.
Really? Look how many cases have been brought against the Tavistock. It’s literally a scandal. Do as you want as an adult. Don’t make kids do it.
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc and you know this How?
@@nataliekhanyola5669 this study
Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence
Shows that there is a 1% regret rate to transition.
The average for any other medical procedure is 14% and we aren't debating that.
Dare you to interview Helen Joyce about the Cass Report and the sickening damage your organisation de facto advocated for years. I DARE you.
Absolutely. I used to contribute to Novara but this report shows a shameful lack of integrity. They only talk to those within their own bubble. This was journalism of the lowest quality.
Novara Media, to their credit, aren't in the habit of interviewing unhinged bigots.
@@charlesdepodesta1771 What credibility, pray tell, does Helen Joyce have?
@@davidparry5310she is smart as fresh paint and has written one of the most important books on the gender issue. What credentials do you have, pray?
@@robbiespence6504 'She's smart as fresh paint and has written one of the most important books on the gender issue.'
Translation: 'She confirms my prejudices, and has kindly devoted her time to writing a propaganda tract that lends justification to them.'
Nice try.
Can we start calling “young people” children again?
Did Michael reallly say the report was 'controversial' because it stated there was no evidence to show giving kids life altering drugs was a good idea?
No the report is bullshit becase it ignores hundreds if not thousands of studies that disagree with its conclusions and has cherry picked the one study that the authors of the study already agreed with.
I medicine there 60% of studies aren't repeatable so if you ignore hundreds of studies that disagree with the one you chose you have inevitably chosen a study that is wrong and non repeatable.
If you want the non repeatability solved then the government would need to run a science centre to specifically repeat experiments becase study repeats don't get funding.
Yes, because they dismissed all the studies (about 100 out of 102) that contradict the cass "review".
@@Khornelia well done for repeating a ‘fact’ you read in your echo chamber without having the critical faculties to investigate it fully. There were numerous weak studies with poor evidence that were given less weight in the report against ones with stronger evidence.
@@antonydavis2764 They dismissed all of these studies for lack of "double-blindness", then in an interview with The Kite Trust said themselves that double blind studies wouldn't be appropriate in this case. You should look it up they backpedal so much in that single interview.
@@Khornelia an expert in her field was recruited to investigate and write a report but she obviously did a bad job. It’s lucky we’ve so many scientists and experts in the TRA community to tell Dr Cass where she went wrong. The amount of people aching to justify giving experimental drugs to children is astonishing and will be seen as one of the great medical scandals when we look back at it.
What sort of a racket are you running down there, Aaron?
For chrissakes, stop saying “assigned at birth”. It’s just ludicrous.
Triggered much? It's an important phrase needed in science.
@@KarenRaver No, it's not.
@@KarenRaver 'assigned at birth' really is a nonsense phrase. Most people regard the left as laughing stock now because of this linguistic stupidity. For 99% or more of babies, someone looks and you are either male or female. Enough of this irrational fiction.
@@KarenRaver It’s a ludicrous phrase that has nothing scientific about it whatsoever. Wake up Karen, the party’s over
This phrase is important but has been bastardised by trans ideologues and activists. It should only be used in extremely rare cases of genital abnormalities. In such cases recording sex based on observation is problematic or impossible. In ALL other cases sex is being OBSERVED and RECORDED.
It's really very simple. Nobody can walk into a hospital and demand a specific, potentially harmful, treatment without proper medical assessment and diagnosis. Support children in all aspects of their mental health. All children. Speaking as a former young adult psychotherapist, school environments present many dangers to the mental health of children. We need to look at the bigger picture.
Yeah, no one has been able to do that ever
@@LeftPhilip I was recently assessed by a doctor because I had a bad cough. I was diagnosed with bronchitis and treated with antibiotics. What if I had been not been properly assessed, and, based on that one symptom, was treated for lung cancer? Would that be good medical practice? The Cass report indicated that children are not being properly assessed and directed to one specific medical intervention, having presented with a medical condition which may require, not only further assessment to confirm or deny, but radically different treatment. Is the Cass report wrong about this? A child is no more a psychiatrist, than I am an oncologist. Cancer patients do not campaign for all children with a cough to skip proper medical assessment and be treated for cancer. Why is this medical intervention different from any other? Yes, improve awareness, stop kids being bullied, fund better services for trans children, shorten the waiting lists. Nobody wants to deny them access to treatment. But do it properly. It's not controversial. It's not transphobic. Myself and many other children I grew up with were bullied relentlessly for being different, and I'm sure there are many children going through the same thing today, for many different reasons. No children being bullied means no trans children being bullied. 15 years working in education, including many as a therapist for young adults, taught me there's still a lot to be done for all children, and trans are children included in this. I know it's not all about the bullying, but when there is no fully appropriate and risk-free medical intervention for a disabling medical condition, you support that person in every other way possible to alleviate their suffering. The Cass report indicated this is not being done. At least on this, we should be able to agree.
Earlier I was thinking of this analogy: I'm generally an advocate for ADHD medication. But if someone said _"Don't you think we're over-prescribing it to children, with little understanding of the long-term effects?"_ I would say _"That's a totally reasonable concern, and something we should be studying."_
It just wouldn't be cogent to respond: _"Listen to the activists, and trust the diagnostic criteria. Don't you think neurodivergent children know what's best for themselves? Do you want to go back to a time where those children are abandoned to a life of failure and misery, and potential suicide? This concern is often driven by bigotry."_ Because even if some of those arguments have some merit, none of them refute the original concern.
@@andybrice2711 but would you remove access to the treatment in the meantime? I guess that's the bit people worry about. Also it's easier to have a double blind trial for ADHD medication as the effects are not so noticeable so it's not a perfect equivalent.
Disappointing episode - Michael is very underprepared for interviews on this subject (the admission of not having read the report doesn’t help). This probably explains the very average calibre of his interviewees. Not up to the usual standard.
Nope he's just being his usual ideological self.
Dr.Kelly's views on Cass can not be easily extricated from his own financial interests. Incredible that Michael failed to explore this obvious point.
Look at his evidence instead.
@@AH--173 but his 'evidence' is mediated by his financial interests. That's the point.
@@randykawasaki One could just as legitimately argue that Dr Cass's evidence is mediated by political interests.
@@blacktele7215 how? she is a doctor of childrens medicine, if all the polls are to be believed the labour party will be next in power and they love all this stuff, and all this stuff happened under the tories no matter what they may say publicly.
@@GreatSageSunWukong Dr Kelly is also a doctor of children's medicine. By your logic he can't be biased either. The story literally showed that Labor fully support the report findings. Both parties being in line only increases the possibility that the report may be biased in that direction.
Dr Aiden Kelly needs to check his morals and stop chasing money.
I'm encouraged to read the comments here because the reporting in this segment is appalling. "Controversial"? The release of Cass has caused the BBC to gulp, The Guardian to gulp, Owen Jones looks like he got hit by a truck and even Pink News went straight with its reporting, which was really quite something to behold. Natacha Kennedy complains about the lack of RCTs when WPATH cobbles together its 'Standards of Care' (which aren't standards of care any more than the Ministry of Defence is about defence) largely from anecdotes about 'lived experience' and in practice appears opposed to RCTs on puberty blockers and other aspects of trans healthcare. For instance, it has been argued that since they take it as a given, based on this anecdotal evidence, that puberty blockers are safe and effective, it would be *unethical* to withhold them from any cohort deemed in need of them, as would be necessary in any RCT. By starting with their conclusion on these drugs, they precluded all attempts to verify their claims by conducting RCTs. But now they want RCTs from Cass.
If there was a hell for these ghouls to go to... I hope it's especially hot.
Puberty is a human right, no child should be deprived of the ability to mentally and physically mature into an adult.
That’s not what puberty blockers do. They only delay the process until you stop taking them, after that you still go through a normal puberty. There *is* reports that it negatively affects height and bone density, but these are only in negligible amounts.
With trans related care, they’re simply so the individual has time to think about whether or not they want to go with the treatment without starting what could be the wrong puberty, which is not only irreversible but deeply traumatic.
Having full control over your own private medical decisions, and the private medicinal decisions parents make for their children, without government interference is also a human right.
@@borkingborker5567 No it isn't. Nobody anywhere actually believes that parents have a "human right" to inflict whatever experimental medical treatment they like upon their children.
@@borkingborker5567 children can not give consent for such things, puberty blockers do not give time to think if they freeze mental development there will be no change in feelings. telling parents do you want a dead daughter or a living son is not an unbiased act.
@@jeffbo8748 there's no such thing as the "wrong puberty", only puberty. And no... young boys still won't develop into women or girls just because they are put through this damaging "care", they're still male.
What a load of claptrap. Very biased
Genspect have plenty of well thought out guidance, why don't you invite Genspect on?
Agreed
100%, let people speak.
@@BarnabyWild13 is that the eugicist Joyce's outfit?
It's scary that NM is still peddling this shit
only a thousand young bodies destroyed is no biggie for you? Dear god have a word with yourself. As for your guests - they are sticking by damaging kids, what can I possibly say, this is simply awful, you should all be utterly ashamed
That you use the word "destroyed" speaks volumes about how impartial and based on the evidence your viewpoint is.
Cass said there was no evidence for the efficacy (because she dismissed all the studies) of gender affirming care for children, but she also didn't present any evidence for harm caused by it, so... stop lying.
The Cass report is being accepted by everyone apart from some cranks.
Novara Media still supporting transing away the gay.
Nope rapsit
I think Michael has more understanding of what it is to be gay than you.
We follow the science not the trans ideology
There is no such thing as trans ideology.
@davidparry5310 you arethe living embodiment of that ideology.
@@connernickerson5509 In order to qualify as an ideology, something has to entail an analysis of the existing social order, an idea of how to preserve or change that social order and, in the latter case, an idea of what to change it _to._ Please explain to me how 'trans ideology' has those three things.
'trans ideology' is simply a sensationalist term made up by transphobes. If transgender people share an 'ideology' then by the same standards so is cis an ideology and they would each be of equal value.
it has nothing to do with feelings, it has to do with the fact that you do not give medication to children without clinical tests because there was once a sentence in a Dutch paper, those people had long discovered that it was not correct, only Transactivists have abused it Dr Aidan should take away his tittle, because there is a thing, first DO NO HARM childeren on Pubertyblockkers is grotesque
So you're campaigning for the removal puberty blockers for cis children in the treatment for precious puberty, which have been successfully used for almost 40 years?
Or is it just transgender teenagers you demand that puberty blockers are banned from?
It’s not controversial. It’s evidence based. You know, those things called facts.🙄
No if you ignore 99.9% of scientific studies and cherry pick literally one study that agrees with you that's called bias.
The facts are that there is less than a 1% regret rate in transition as opposed to the average of 14% regret rate for any other medical procedure.
Edit: she only ignored 98% of the studies she looked at.
@@liam7342 how do we know the regret rate if the butchers aren't doing follow up?
@@liam7342 Keep telling yourself that. It may not be true but it will make you feel better.
@@liam7342 Where is the study you pulled that figure from and how long after was it taken?
@@liam7342there is not less than 1% but even if there was, 1% of 10% of the population is still far too big a number to ignore!
‘coNtRovERsiaL’ 😂
unsurprising to see this channel return to its toeing of the line
I wonder what the staff at Novara will say in 20 years when this is over and they have justified the modern equivalent of the lobotomy.
They will try to deny they gave any support. TH-cam videos will be deleted etc
22:00 It's great how until now trans activists said that their beliefs were backed by science and now it changed to "it may be impossible to assess safety with science, so let kids experiment with treatments".
Transphobes real mad in the comments for this one.
The tide has turned, your days on this issue are numbered.
@@connernickerson5509i love when the totally normal ppl say "your days are numbered"
So called advocates need to shut it and sit down. Stop trying to validate your behavior thru children.
What healthcare would YOU like to see for trans youth? Seen as you were deeply involved in this report
@@tabbymoonshine5986 as a scientist that funds tg research, I’m actually well qualified to offer suggestions. Let’s start with mental health and not chemical castration.
Aint nothing controversial about stopping this nonsense, disturbing it ever got this far.
its about time common sense came back and the NHS remembered their remit to do no harm. and nothing in the Cass report is anything we didn't already know years ago the first whistleblower was in 2011.
Except is all bullshit and follows conservative talking points like the 25 years thing
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc facts don't care about your feelings and feelings are never a good basis for anything, feelings is how Fascism starts. read some history and cultivate your critical and analytical thinking skills
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc Maybe the conservatives know something you dont?
@norbarellis the study is terrible. Its a bad study to make any decisions on. Come back when you don't ignore 99% of research
@@LeftPhilip That’s the point. There has been NO research!
Really embarrassing. It’s not controversial though is it. Facts. Stop being on the wrong side of history 😂
Are Labour going to start being nice to Rosie Duffield now??
I wish she would run as an independent, theres no reason for her to go down with that ship, its like being stuck in an abusive relationship I don't know why she stays
Novara Media, isn’t it about time you interviewed people like Helen Joyce, or Hannah Barnes, or Genspect on this issue: you need to move outside your echo chamber on this one. Interviewing such well informed and intelligent people would clearly take you well outside your comfort zone but Novara Media might be be better off for it …
Joyce wants me DEAD
@@Aarenby no she doesn’t …
@@AarenbyShe really doesn't. And that kind of hysteria is maybe not helpful
@@benfisher1376 classic misogyny
@@Aarenby Yes trans activism can be
Natasha Kennedy’s tirade about children’s human rights was bordering on absurd. I’m all for trans rights and greater access to trans related healthcare and support, but the idea that children, particularly teenagers, should be prescribed hormone blockers because it’s a human right is so anti scientific I can’t believe it’s taken seriously. We do not know the long term consequences of these treatments since our database is not large enough yet. We absolutely have to be careful about pursuing chemical treatments and we absolutely should be pursuing support in other ways before getting to the point where you may need hormone therapy.
Love the way Kelly refers to his business as a ‘service’.
The NHS is segregated. Cis people can get hormones often easily and trans people face a functional ban and lose their lives because of it
Wild baseless claims.
Hormones used in certain conditions have an evidence base. The whole Cass report shows convincingly that their use in trans ‘healthcare’ do not. Your wild proclamations are at the very least unevidenced.
Every word untrue.
If anything, NHS made a huge mistake to allow the transcultists to give children untried life-altering medication.
@@clairhonnor6211 outting yourself as ignorant of the facts
it;s nonsense comments like yours that the review highlighted as being damaging to children
Nothing contraversial in wishing to stop child abuse.
Dr Kelly needs more clinical experience
“If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” Referrals to Taverstock and gender clinics presented a problem when it is clear from the patient data that most had 5 or more mental health comorbidities including anxiety, depression, autism, neurodivergence eating disorders as well as gender dysphoria it is unsurprising that the gender clinics only provided gender affirming care rather than assess the likelihood of other factors influencing the gender dysphoria. Gender affirming care ideologically will not investigate causes of gender dysphoria but simply affirms the gender identity and sets the patient on a trans gender conveyor belt based on limited evidence.
Trying to raise these concerns you are often called a right wing bigot, shutting down much needed debate.
Gender dysphoria will increase depression, anxiety, eating disorder etc. when not given timely gender affirming care.
Autism is higher because autistics don't follow society rules so are more likely to follow their internal gender
@@jackoh991 So say you… What’s your evidence?
@@lisahalmshaw1275 I am a life long leftie with broad shoulders.. sticks and stones… 🖖
People with autism, depression, anxiety and eating disorders can have legit gender dysphoria. It’s crazy to think that those conditions should exclude someone from receiving treatment. Surely, the issue is that underfunding these services means they can’t deliver on them properly, not that we should cut them altogether. But that’s the Tory solution to everything.
How would there be a randomized controlled trial to observe a hospital offering only one treatment pathway. You can wear what you want without going to a doctor. If they're going to a doctor its because they want medical treatment.
So a haircut is the same as having your knackers cut off
Not the same but they both sit on a continuum
Wella actually yeah. They did a meta study of all the studies and found that people had improvement when they started to transition by wearing clothes. They found people did not have a further improvement by having theur knackers off. So in terms of outcome yeah ...those things seem to be the same... in a way. If having your knackers off doesnt imrpove upon the improvement of anything id say keep wearing the dress.
It's insane to suggest that trans people can't be sure of their gender until 25...
Yeah it is insane. Everyone knows what they were born as, it is quiet evident when the parents and the doctor observe the babies genetalia. Even before that, the gender of the baby can be observed early on through scans :)
No more insane than saying heterosexuals can be attracted to each other age 16 years old but homosexuals have to be 21 years old (if they are even allowed at all).
@@climaksy1659 Go back to school, gender does not equal sex. One is a social construct, one is a biological fact
As one person said, they are focussing on the wrong issue - They want to fix things for trans people, they should focus on reducing waiting lists, not stopping treatments.
Its worth pointing out that firstly no-one gets hormone therapy *until* they come of age and there is *no* suggestion they are going to stop using Blockers for cis children with precocious puberty, so why all the preciousness about using them for Trans kids to give them time to find themselves? Forcing children to undergo a puberty they don't want, to go through irreversible, or hard to reverse, changes to their bodies, is completely unethical.
@@fabulously695 Stop hijacking concepts. Gender in the first place is the psychological experience of your sex, not a sociological social construct.
The Cass Review is only "controversial" to Novara Media because it contradicts the progressive narrative; the report's "verdict" (actually a list of conclusions and recommendations) is full of compassion and common sense, neither of which are "controversial" at all!
You don’t need a report to know this. lol.
👏👏👏💯%
Definitely something an unbiased person would say lol
Solidarity with our trans friends
Lmao
@@Qrtuop 75 likes against your 8. Who's laughing now?
@@nakedenby I am, at the herd mentality.
@@nakedenbywoah people in your echo chamber liked your comment.
While ignoring the majority of the comments in this echo chamber are against NM video 😂
♥♥♥♥
I think if you asked the public specifically on whether they thought there should be a moratorium on medical interventions on children you might find it's not that controversial
Amen
no more appendicectomies for under 18s!!! the madness has to stop. you cant be for abortions and against god reaping the souls of children
You so sure about that? Does the public agree that we should not at all give any medical interventions (also known as treatment) to children? May not go down the way you suspect.
I think children should recieve all life-saving interventions.
I think children should be given chemotherapy if that is what the majority of major medical practices say is the appropriate treatment.
I think children should be given inhalers if that is what the majority of major medical practices say is the appropriate treatment.
But you know, I may just be completely out of touch with other members of the public. 🤷♂
Edit: I'm an idiot and just realised what you meant. I totally agree that I don't think the public would find it controversial at all. Apologies.
@@Unknown-ov2kz So not puberty blockers then.
@@GruffaloBalls Sure, let's go with that and apply it to everyone, then. That means the two-year-olds going through precious puberty don't have any means to pause that puberty until they reach an appropriate age. 🙄
By the way, as someone who's been on puberty blockers when I was a legal child, the worst part was the hoops I had to jump through to get to the medication, not the results of the blockers on my body, that I purposefully intended on having. 🤷
Oh, god don't understand why us trans people can just live our lifes in peace without everyone having an opinin about it!
How does a minor access medical care without adults having an opinion on their needs?
@@MsColl90 i think the point is about trans kids having barriers to care that cis people don’t have, like the gender dysphoria diagnosis by a gp. Just makes it take so much longer, that’s it
Children receiving the wrong healthcare is everybody's business. The Cass Report found a lack of Safeguarding, the use of harmful drugs being used without evidence and no evidence to suggest suicide rates rise when children wait.
You can have your life in peace if you do not shout from every rooftops that children must be sexualised. The society is very accepting these days but most parents will stay and fight for the wellbeing of their children and protect them from being brainwashed by trans-cultists,
@@Hiya-f8h As soon as you say "cis people" you identify as part of the cult and your opinions are as valid as opinions of an ant about algebra.
Thanks for having Natasha on, I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to hear an actual trans voice in the noise around this 😢🏳️⚧️
Well it was certainly good to hear how weak their arguments were against the findings of Dr Cass
Just a shame she used that voice to spread misinformation instead of tackling the government and bigots on their misinformation around the review.
@@rjohn4143 "Weak"? If they're weak, the Dr Cass arguments are non-existent.
As if no one knows what the TRA are saying - they have been dominating the conversation for 10 years.
@lizadeeza yeah because there's so many trans people on the news lmao
Trans rights are human rights ❤
what rights don't they have? the human rights act says nothing about drugs and surgery.
@@GreatSageSunWukong I'm not your mum sweetie, go and educate yourself
@@jackoh991 no I'm asking you and why would you assume my mother knows bit sexist that.
Mindless slogans like this, thought-terminating cliches as someone memorably put it recently, are exactly why many people are sick of the left, or at least what passes for the left these days.
Trans rights are transhuman & posthuman rights
22:59 sadly, yes, these studies take time. Which is why they should’ve been being done the entire time you were prescribing a medication for off-label use and messing w endocrine systems. Even if it was an observational study it would’ve given them SOMETHING. It’s impossible for these doctors to see it another way, because then they would have to admit they were somehow acting in not the best care. You can’t experiment on children. Period. So why did you? Gender identity in children and adolescents must remain non-medicalized, and focused on their mental health. Then as an adult 18+ they can make their choices regarding medications and surgery. I really think this is being made more confusing than in needs to be.
But the drugs were used prior to this for other medical conditions so why the sudden concern of dangerous side effects
The medications have been used for children for decades and are know to be safe in children. Doctors have been using observational studies for the whole time they have been prescribing for trans kids.
The problem with this 'report' is that it literally ignores hundreds if not thousands of studies and only looked at the kne study that agreed with what they already thought.
Published studies in medicine have been shown to be non repeatable at a rate of roughly 60%. When you pick out one study which disagrees with the vast majority of studies, that study is almost certainly bullshit.
@@jackoh991 because the medications had been studied for precocious puberty and shown to be effective for that reason- (it stopped the early puberty but did not stop them from going thru puberty at the appropriate time, ie the drugs were stopped and physiologic processes were allowed to continue). The way it’s used in gender medicine is to stop puberty at its appropriate time, followed by cross sex hormones. So the child is unable to go thru the biological puberty their body needs to go thru.
This physician claims not many people ever received the drugs across Europe and UK, but no one actually knows how many people received them, what their side effects were, or have completed follow ups on their growth, bone density, brains, etc. not to mention all the people in the U.S. and Canada. NO ONE thought to actively track these patients.
I understand the point both doctors were making about the ethical problem with doing double blind studies. My point is that giving medications to appease a psychological discomfort by way of halting a physiologically necessary process and causing changes to appearance by cross sex hormones at the expense of a persons natural endocrine processes should give providers pause to consider. Additionally, you have to consider if a child or teen really could possibly understand what it is they are doing. It really feels common sense from an ethical perspective to me 😢
@@Beserious795 gender affirming care saves lives, and that feels like common sense to me to do whatever saves lives.
Gender affirming care should be age appropriate. Before the age of 16 medicine is used to pause puberty but not promote the chosen gender.
Surgery is held off until 18.
To me that seems age appropriate
@@jackoh991 we can agree to disagree and that’s okay. We sit on opposite sides on this topic as most do and unfortunately why the work and research has never been done properly. It’s not that I don’t have compassion and empathy, my daughter is trans identified. No one wants people to be suffering. I’ve done my own research for years now and why I feel so passionately and strongly about it in minors. I’m glad the Cass report was done and am hopeful for further advances in evidence based care 💟
Sad to see the influx of gender critical accounts with no good faith swarming here. Solidarity to our trans siblings 🩷
That's frankly all they have, a bunch of alt accounts and a lot of time on their hands (now that their children don't want to see them anymore with reason).
Where are the trans accounts? Have they given up? Do they know it's a lost cause?
FWIW, I'm a regular Novara listener and subscriber, though I have signed in with a new account. It's disgraceful how much bullying, name-calling and shouting down people on the left have to endure from their own side just because they believe in logic and science. The number of people I've heard quietly whisper gender critical comments that they'd never say out loud.
❤
Controversial??????? Are you having a LAUGH??
Plain common sense now at last backed up by serious and thorough research of available evidence, which confirms that the evidence really isn't there.
I'm in the US now, and trying to explain the NHS and how that impacts societal discourse is so difficult to explain. I was asked how Cass could possibly have expertise, despite her experience working with the most vulnerable/disabled children, and doing hundreds of interviews for affected users in the review. One thing that is overlooked is that given the NHS is a truly public system, NHS doctors that work across the country, in GIDS, or cities will certainly see all aspects of society, classes, races, religions etc., which is a unique and invaluable perspective when you are trying to form a general understanding of the public impact of a health policy. Often in the US clinics (and Private UK clinics), the patients are already incredibly self-selected, and so doesn't really provide the same perspective, I think that should be taken into account when listening to the opinions of private doctors like Dr. Kelly
Why isn't the word 'Malpractice' being used?
Noooo. @natacha Kennedy a haircut is not the same as allowing puberty blockers for children. Seriously, it’s already weird that this group keeps targeting children. Keep your eye on the 18+ crew.
Why do they keep coming after children?
WPATH??
Natasha Kennedy is speaking fallacies regarding the evidence used. Two high quality and over 50 medium quality studies were used. Pooling data from medium sized studies (that may be underpowered due to sample size) can strengthen the level of evidence. On the other hand a poorly constructed study cannot be relied upon for robust evidence. That is why they were discarded. This shows a) that Natasha does not know the scientific method and b) they did not read the Cass review properly.
The presenter is the dogmatic one
Cass report?
Cue desperate back peddling from the trendy left.
It is painful listening to Natacha! So much incoherent guff!
This is just so ill-informed! Did any of you read the Cass Review? It's so fair and even-handed...with the safety of children at its core. How can you defend the rights of big pharma and private clinics such as Dr Kelly's, over the research of Dr Cass and York University? Your prejudices are showing.
'Too quickly' (four, six, ten year waiting lists)
Yeah exactly, hopefully by that time they have grown out of it.
@@climaksy1659 but they don't. Trans people on the GIDs waiting list describe it as the darkest times in their lives
@@connor5669 Then perhaps they should find comfort and answers from within. Is invasive medication and mutilation of our one and only physical body really the answer to ones suffering, ever?
@@climaksy1659more people mutilate their bodies with cosmetic surgery, piercings or tattoos. You against them as well?
@@stevenredpath9332 how many of them remove functional body parts required for peoples bodily and sexual wellbeing?
There is nothing controversial about it.
The report makes me feel sick and disgusted. Did you have the same reaction? If no, I guess it is contraversial
@jackoh991 The topic is controversial, but the report itself wasn't.
@@jackoh991 what so you mean by ir makes you feel sick btw?
@bigkuriboh3814 it's been widely panned by experts for its bad methodology and obvious double standards
@@bigkuriboh3814 the bias in the report. All queer people I know are feeling hurt today by it
The reason Michael thinks both sides sound reasonable on the Cass report is a serious lack of awareness of transphobic tropes. Both interviews were a long list of dog whistles.
I'm glad you had Natasha on, but this still felt like well-meaning cis people with a lack of knowledge of transphobia grossly underestimating it while discussing our lives and liberties, again. You assign them good intentions when the opposite is clear. First time I've been disappointed in Novara
Can’t help but agree. It really feels as though Novara have a blind spot when it comes to trans issues. Thought they’d have the good sense to choose a host/co-host that was aware enough of the issues to provide a robust rebuttal to the report and place it in its wider context
With "transphobic tropes" you mean arguments, right?
You are saying "you need to know their talking points to dismiss them as such right away". But that's what a bigot does, that's what prejudice is. We need to engage with the arguments, not just dismiss them.
Also, if by your "liberties" you mean putting children in life-long medical pathways without any resistance from *anybody* even if studies are saying puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones have irreversible consequences, and there's a big influence done by social media, then that's the wrong word you used right there.
Why is it always middle aged men being interviewed as representatives of the trans community. If the surge relates to teenage girls, why are NM not interviewing young(ish) women rather than men?
Wait wait wait.
So you think this reporting wasn't pro trans enough???
😂😂😂😂
Wow what kind of echo chamber do you live in.
Jesus, the transphobes are out in force in the comment section. I thought this was Novara, not the fucking Sun.
Love and solidarity to my queer comrades in the UK, at this dark time.
like is it bots or was this posted on mumsnet or what?
People have a right to express themselves. Everything you dislike is not "transphobic". Deal with it.
No one cares what adults want to call themselves and do. hands off our children. They are precious and innocent and must be protected!
you are a very small minority and shrinking by the day, not because of some dastardly plot but because people are waking up to whats going on and how abhorrent it is, many of us lefties are now politically homeless but its a price worth paying.
@@GreatSageSunWukong Lol, you've taken the trouble to comment, as have many, precisely because your perception is that the numbers are rising and you feel your conservative world is threatened. Thank you for giving us all a chuckle.
This guy"s captured.
Check out Barnes' other interviews which haven't been butchered by NM.
The only evidence you seem to have is anecdotal. What other evidence have you got?
Lived experience trumps empirical evidence.
Micheal - What is the test for being trans?
No such thing as trans. There are, however, people for whom transition is the only way to ameliorate their suffering, and we should be compassionate towards them.
@@boogiemcsploogie what is transition? you can't change sex, its just cosmetic surgery and adopting regressive stereotypes.
@@boogiemcsploogie That's literally what being trans is lol
I wonder if the numbers of teenage females presenting with anorexia, bulimia or self harming has remained the same as usual over the period of time that the numbers of females presenting to the gender identity service apparently rose in higher numbers than historical levels.
Ban all puberty blockers.
I’ll tell my friend’s trans son that his taking puberty blockers as he started entering puberty and was incredibly distressed at what was happening to his body was an assault, and his mother should be blamed for this.
@juliewake4585 and you would be right, the child should be seized by the state before she is sterilized.
@@connernickerson5509 my goodness. There is no such thing as a child that has been “sterilised” as you put it. What kind of planet are you living on if you think that this sort of thing is happening? Maybe you should get to know a free trans kids, or adults, to find out what sort of things they are going through, before you make such ridiculous comments.
"It would be great if we had evidence, but we don't and we need to allow these kids to make irreversible decisions that might ruin their lives or they.. they.. they might have to wait!"
Waiting causes irreversible effects that will likely ruin their lives.
@@jessicahansen1288 The available evidence says that it won't.
@@GruffaloBalls It does if you choose to ignore all of the studies that disagree with you, yes.
@@jessicahansen1288 the numbers choosing to leave this world increase after having the care, on average its 7 years after
@@GreatSageSunWukong source?
Hey Left, can you just take the L on this one and admit you got it wrong.
The Gender Ideology lobby don't speak for "The Left". I'm Left, when it comes to economic policy, foreign policy etc. I also respect facts, logic and evidence and can see that gender ideology is bunk. There are plenty on the Left like me; hopefully this report will take some of the wind out of the bullying atmosphere that makes them unwilling to say so in public.
@@GruffaloBalls Read up on the causes for gender incongruence, and you'd learn that there's a scientific basis. For one example, trans women are more likely than cis men to have "a longer version of a receptor gene for the sex hormone androgen, which reduces its effectiveness at binding testosterone."
Furthermore, a "variant genotype for the CYP17 gene, which acts on the sex hormones pregnenolone and progesterone, has been found to be linked to transsexuality in trans men but not in trans women. Most notably, transmasculine subjects not only had the variant genotype more frequently, but had an allele distribution equivalent to cisgender male controls, unlike the cisgender female controls. The paper concluded that the loss of a female-specific CYP17 T -34C allele distribution pattern is associated with transmasculinity."
See, science!
@@Unknown-ov2kz Were those measurements/analyses done before or after drug use was started? Was there a correction for homo/bisexuality? What were the standard deviations? What was the n for each group? Was there a control group, and was this age- and BMI- and sexuality- matched? What you state is more like evidence for variety within sexes than evidence for the idea that you can be "born in the wrong body" or that a male can somehow be a woman.
@@GruffaloBallsThanks for saying exactly what I wanted to. We need to revive true leftism and bin this identity nonsense.
@GruffaloBalls most of the electorate is left economically / right socially.
The issue for me is children and young people (under 25)… Perhaps dealing with the mental health comorbidities may also eliminate the supposed gender dysphoria as Individuals seeking Gender affirming care perhaps due to social media, peer groups and self identifying as a cure all for their mental health issues… medicalising mental health with cross sex hormones and surgery for vulnerable people is unethical and should be illegal!!!
My issue is anyone with a mental health condition, age shouldn't come into it, there are very vulnerable people with mental health problems at all ages. if you start saying there should be strict controls for children only then your opening the door for people with downs syndrome, autism, multiple personality disorder and all sorts being affirmed just because they are old enough when they clearly can not consent. I'm a parent of a teenager with autism, he can't even tie shoe laces, I've tried many times to teach him, everything is very delayed (well I hope he's delayed and he learns eventually).
@@GreatSageSunWukong Perfectly adequate controls already exist. None of the demographics you mentioned should be excluded from making decisions about their gender if they have mental capacity.
There's no evidence that any of the things you are worried about are actually happening. Avoid listening to the propaganda and relax.
@@nakedenby clearly perfectly adequate controls do not exist, what do you know of CAMHs or the NHS mental health service in general? its no surprise they jumped on this silly ideology rather then do their job which takes time and far more money, therapists and councilors are extremely expensive and NHS mental health services are severally understaffed especially since Brexit.
So what if a trans person is also depressed, autistic etc? They just can't get care because you say so?
I appreciate the balanced conversation here. It's hard to find cause both sides in this debate seem to be exaggerating what the report means. For the record, I agree with the government stance here; until there is sufficient evidence of its benefits for trans youth, puberty blockers should be banned. The report however does not undo the stacks of evidence that HRT is beneficial to the lives of trans adults and so it's not the death knell to 'trans ideology' that some transphobes are purporting it to be.
Remember whatever your stance is on this issue that the goal here is to ensure that as many people as possible can get their healthcare needs met. You may not fully understand trans peoples' needs but the majority them are just trying to live their best lives and would rather be left alone instead of having their right to exist constantly questioned online and in the media.
"They're setting too high a standard for evidence".
Debate over.
Where was all the "concern" controversy and outrage when it was just used for non trans kids with early onset puberty?
@@sophiepooks2174 they weren't being labelled, stereotyped and used as political pawns and their diagnosis was based on sound science .
Nice cherry picking, if you listened further, you would realize they said they are asking for a high standard of evidence then are ignoring findings they don't like, because they don't consider good enough.
Controversial ffs just a bit of common sense
Why are there so many cuts in the Natacha Kenedy segment?
Edited to try and make him look smart
@@w.f.4287 did you mean smart?
@@w.f.4287Her*. You'll pretend you're not transphobic and that this is just about the children, but then won't even use a person's correct pronouns.
this reporting on the cass review is shockingly bad and everyone associated with novara should be ashamed of themselves. i've put up with too much bollocks from you lot because there really is no other news source with even rudimentary journalistic standards, but you do not get to 'both sides' the issue of trans rights and keep me as a subscriber. trans liberation now, goodbye
Hes pro trans, has only 2 pro trans interviewees and it's " both sides""
Utterly deranged take.
The comments here are awful! I'm shocked at how many people are transphobia 😢
There lies the problem. Cult members equating the abhorrence of child mutilation and experimentation as transphobia. If that is what that word has come to mean, millions will wear the title with pride
freedom of speech, belief and opinion are protected in a democracy and vital to preserving it
@@clairhonnor6211 I'm not transphobic said the proud transphobe.
@@nakedenby that's no longer the insult you think it is
@@clairhonnor6211 Don't judge others by your own standards. I'm not writing it as an insult - it's an adjective and a noun in that order. It has in fact never been an insult - but if you feel it was one then maybe it's because you're uncomfortable that the description might apply to you - trying to reclaim it as a badge will go the same way as it did for the TERFs
The entire word "trans-kids" is a misnomer and an oxymoron. Children are not sexual beings and must not be subjected to anything of this nature.
what does the 'trans kids' have to do with being sexual? strange you hear someone mention kids and you brain goes straight to sexual thoughts
Your logic fails you by presuming that being trans is inherently sexual. It has nothing to do with a child being a "sexual being" as you so disgustingly put it, but rather how a child understands their gender identity and how they would prefer to express themselves to the world.
I imagine you likely see yourself as a man or a woman, correct? How would you feel if someone forced you to identify in a way that did not make you feel comfortable or affirmed in your identity? Surely that would cause you some amount of distress.
But for some reason those of your ilk continue to spread this nonsense of it being about sex. It isn't.
@@RealityHasAWokeBiashere comes the " A woman is anything you want it to be" brigade. You guys and logic are like same end of the magnet. they repel each other!
@@orchidhealth2097 Nice, Emotional Support Straw Man you have there 🫂
🎯🎯🎯🎯
It’s not controversial though is it.
It is. It's based on cherry picked studies that are deeply flawed and have been thoroughly debunked.
The truth based on facts hardly ever is.
It is to "A woman can be a cactus tree" if they feel like it brigade...
It is though? Just definitionally?
The report said that all evidence is bad bc it's not double blinded, which is impossible for hormones anyway
@@connor5669 I don't know what point you are making, but yes, they can't double-blind hormone therapy without treating patients unethically, which is of course wrong.
The stupid thing is Trans kids *don't get hormones* They get blockers, at best, and all those do is pause physical puberty.
What is worse, they *still use* blockers for cis kids suffering precocious puberty. ITs a ludicrous double standard and ideologically driven by someone brought in by to Tories to deliberately mess with trans kids. Literally every other western country follows the well respected WPATH guidelines. This includes in the other nations within the UK. It is only this ideologically-driven attack on trans rights that has led to the Cass Report situation in England & Wales.