Nope some have vicious rear diffs with open fronts, but I.believe this has a front and rear open diff. Putting a limited slip on the front would only be a good idea if the vehicle was used as just an off-road vehicle which it looks like this. Otherwise torque steer would be a problem.
Helms from Victoria Australia The wheel will spin. When one wheel is spinning (say a front wheel) then more drive will be sent to the rear wheels. If a front and rear wheel are in the air then they will spin and the car will go nowhere the same as it would in a real 4WD
By EVENLY applying resistance to all 4 wheels, it helps to more evenly distribute the power. It helps VERY minimally but it's gotten me out of mud pits before.
In a way that's a shame, it's kinda fun to suddenly not be in control of your vehicle. Of course, you've solved that dilemma by finding boat-worthy rivers to drive through. Innovative
I will be purchasing a Forester this year, need a new work vehicle 🚗, it will just a cheap second car run about and a bit of off roading, most of the foresters I looked at have 100k miles, is there anything I should be concerned about , looking at a 2000 to 2005 models all advice welcome many thanks Steve
As long as it is not 100k miles of offroad use there should be plenty of life left in the car. At that age having the timing belt and water pump done is a good idea. Also I assume you are in the USA, if so you may be better off getting a auto for offroad work as the gearing in the manual will be quite limiting.
Snorkle aside, this shows the problem with the early AWD as in my 2002 Forester. I've gotten stuck with it where I believe the new AWD will keep me going.
Yes this is the short fall of any basic AWD/4WD system. A front and rear wheel in the air or with low traction means you stop. Traction control would help but can be slow to react. Locked diff in the rear an would have been laughing..
what diff do you have in it ? Looks open - I thought they have viscous diffs in them ? The front left free spins while the right holds. edit - looks like your other videos confirmed it, open. Wow pretty amazing where you are taking the subby. Nice one.
Subaru Off-Road I didn't want to say, a mate of mine in the Central Coast who used to rally his WRXs calls them Sureslips. I wonder what he uses for his rally cars nowadays ...
prana8 Probably a plated LSD. I only put it in because it came with the gearbox I got the DCCD out of. Does seem better than a open diff though. Might upgrade one day.
everyone posting about the open front diff and driver didnt even brake lock it, for anyone who wants to know in this situation put your foot on the brake slightly and keep on the power, the brake will add drag to the spinning wheel and drive to the stopped one
This only works on vehicles fitted with ABS. In not ABS vehicles such as this one applying the brakes will not help and will more likely make it more difficult. If you do have ABS or torque biasing or dependant diffs then driving through the brakes can be a good trick.
if you dont have abs just pump the brakes on and off, it will still apply torque to the stationary wheel every time you pump the brake and you can gain enough traction to pull out
I have tried this many times and it has no effect, usually makes it work. Pumping the brakes will apply even brake pressure to BOTH wheels. The open diff can only provide torque to the stationary wheel equal to the torque of the brake force on the spinning wheel. As this torque is also equal to the torque applied by the brakes on the stationary wheel the wheel will not turn. End result is the same as before just the motor has to work harder to work against the brakes.
dammm that is heaps good! I'm from Sydney I have a Subaru Forester '13 model and I love it, it gets me on the beach and the traction control gets me past steep terrain Unforuntately, definitely can't do this stuff because it doesn't have a snorkel NOR has the opportunity to install one, all those ARB + TJM places doesn't have any accessories for Subaru :( how did you get your snorkel installed?
Just a bit more momentum obtained by going back just that little bit further. I probably would have made it through first go but I backed right off after the huge bow wave as I was worried a heap of water went down the snorkel.
Saulo Vilanova Yep you are correct about straightening the wheels. I was absolutely buggered when I was driving that afternoon and completely forgot that I had turned the wheels and interestingly there was absolutely no feedback through the steering wheel. The extra momentum from going back further combined with straightening the wheels got me out.
TheJstarwalt Tried many times and have found it doesn't have any effect with open diffs front and rear in fact it seems to hinder. The physics behind this concept says it wont work as well
@@KLRCoop I am doing it just fine. Unless you have torque biaaing or load dependant LSDs applying the brakes will only hinder on vehicles that do not have ABS. It should help with ABS but this vehicle does not have it. Also the hand brake will do nothing but hinder unless your AWD system is very shitty and you only have one rear wheel spinning.
@@HelenFire420 as this is a manual there is no option do add a switch to the centre diff. If it was an auto you could lock the rear transfer clutch up but technically the autos do not have a centre "diff" it's just a clutch to engage the rear wheels when needed.
It is a NH-NK Pajero Snorkel but it had been reshaped a bit by heating with a blowtorch. I have put a link in the video description with some more details
Why was the front passenger tire not spinning when the other tires didn't' have traction? Seems like it should have started to turn right away once the other tires started to slip.
Subaru Off-Road Hmmm, well that came as a surprise to me at least. I always thought that all Subarus had rear LSD... Have been leaning toward a forester for next car, for the added ground clearance over the outback, but now I see I need to do my homework to see which cars actually have LSDs. (Drive a Octavia 4x4 with open diffs at the moment)
Hampus Lytz Ya I don't know...I've seen other forester videos where the other wheels started spinning much sooner...so I"m not sure...A guy i work with is gonna be selling is 2009 Forester and I'm thinking of buying it. I did learn there is a traction control button (that you can turn off) which gives you the full power without cutting acceleration when the tires start to spin.
Hampus Lytz Stock Subaru rear LSDs are viscous type on most cars except for the high end performance ones. These are an improvement on an open diff but not a significant improvement especially higher km ones.
I have a 2016 Forester, and they insist that power will be delivered to ALL wheels. In your video, it is clear that your right front wheel and perhaps your left rear wheel are not getting full power. That is a bit sobering.
no, that was because the car has no locking differential, so the differential sent torque to the wheels with less grip (which is counter-productive, since all the torque was wasted on barely any grip at all). Like other comments said, a locking differential would have made all the difference, since torque would not be wasted on wheels with less grip.
Nho Minh Đinh So, locking differential is a relatively new development in Subaru? I will not be testing mine like he did, but I am sure that mine is supposed to power all the wheels.
Subaru do use locking differentials (This car should have a rear Limited Slip Diff). But putting lockers on the front of a car that is not a 4x4 is silly (From the manufactures point of view). Power can still go to all wheels however if one front wheel has much less grip than the other, it will spin. It has a rear LSD (Rear Left and Right split) and viscous center diff (Front and Rear split) but it doesn't have a front locking or LSD, That would make it a pig to drive on the road and cornering would be much more difficult, the turning circle would be horrible and a bit dangerous for the typical driver if it decided to lock up. Not to mention the tremendous strain and Diff windup it can create on road. The specific benefit of an LSD in the front is far outweighed by cons. You will find this is pretty standard practice to not put an LSD in the front axle, without a manual control, because it can be dangerous. 4x4 drivers generally do this mod themselves and are aware of the way it will affect the control of the car. Most people will never need the front axle to lock and a skilled driver will be able to get over most obstacles with just a rear LSD or Locker. Car need their front wheels to be able to spin at different speeds to be able to drive and corner effectively. Hope this makes some sense!
An LSD is not a locking differential it is an Limited slip diff. This model came stock with open diffs front and rear. A locker is a zero slip diff and much better off-road especially when wheels are in the air. A locker is a selectable locking diff which is only engaged when needed not a locked on road and is perfectly fine to use on road as its just an open diff until selected. A welded diff is a completely different story. I agree from Subarus perspective it is outside what the car is designed for. The right type of LSD up front is perfectly fine and many performance manufactures have them stock (including Subaru) I now have a front LSD and it is brilliant on and off road
Khadijah - Subaru advertise this on current models and they have traction control systems that brake the spinning wheels so that power is sent to the wheels with grip. This old model does not have any of this fancy technology. Subaru has never used a locking diff.
The ECU on the Australian EJ20 SF forester is mounted on the engine and is 100% waterproof. As far I know it is the only Subaru ever made that has a waterproof ECU.
Not sure this is true as the drive train layout is almost identical in this model to everything else 5 speed (apart from some slight gearing differences).... Some newer models got more advanced traction control systems but that certainly wasnt all models from 2003 onwards... This may have been the time Subaru coined the term (not sure when that actually started) but it does not coincide with any major drive line change...
Actually went through a puddle like that with my '97 RAV4. Did a little better than the Sub, this video surprises me. I always thought Subs could go through stuff like this with no problem. Nice vid though.
i think the right control arm was stuck in the hump of the trail. the axles on new generation subarus are practically parallel to the ground just like a solid axle. plus this must have the sway bar connected, so the right tire was holding the grip and not enough weight on the left to grip. i have an 86 gl wagon and just the sock suspension gives about a 35 degree angle plus i disconnected the sway bar. believe me, tires is not just the solution, in fact im usin Savero trailer 185 70 13 and im kicking ass with 10psi out of the RHB5. i recently lifted 3 inches the body.
I would have loved to see a RAV4 go through that bog, it would still be there.... The reason why I had so much trouble was the bottom was very uneven so diagonal wheel spin was an issue when combined with the slippery surface and crappy road tyres. I have seen an 80 series landcruiser on muddies having to get snatched out of the exact same bog so I am pretty happy the Subaru got through without help
Subaru Off-Road all you had to do was to loose the sway bars. i have an 86 gl wagon with 185 70 13 trailer tires and i would made it in the first try just for not having sway bars connected. no matter how "big or threaded" the tires are, without the proper suspension articulation it won't go anywhere. by the way, you are ok by enjoying your new generation subaru as it should be treated, like an awesome off road machine subarus are indeed. lol!
I have never found driving through the brakes to work at all with open diffs. I cant get my head around why it would help at all either in terms of physics.
By tapping the brakes, it adds resistance to the spinning wheel, this will force power to the wheel that is not recieving any power. Not a replacement for an LSD, but useful on occasion. Very common technique for open diff off roaring.
@@Ferretts89 I have tried this many times. Absolutely no effect on a vehicle without ABS such as this one (actually hinders) and for vehicles with ABS the effects are normally negligible. Works slightly better with automatic with ABS.
@@SubaruOffRoad I would have to venture a guess you aren't doing it properly. Left foot braking, or tapping the brake is super common. Search left foot braking jeep for an untold number of videos demonstrating the technique. Maybe you can learn something rather than being closed minded.
@@Ferretts89 Clearly not closed minded if I have tried it countless times... There is absolutely no physical explanation why this would help in any way. The only thing it could potentially do would be if just one front wheel is lifted and the centre diff is slipping it can send more drive to the rear due to the front brakes being larger than the rears. I will eat my words if you can show me a video of it working in a manual Subaru without ABS and with open diffs...
@@SubaruOffRoad it has nothing to do with abs... I don't think you understand how an open differential works. Power is sent to the wheel with the least resistance. Traction is resistance, braking force on a wheel is resistance. Left foot braking is an attempt to make the resistance on the spinning tire great enough that some of the power will be sent to the other tire. Pretty simple concept but perhaps a link from teraflex might help. teraflex.com/news_items/open-vs-locked-differentials It's a delicate technique, however after watching some of your videos, delicate does not seem to be in your repertoire. Hope you can learn this technique next time you go wheeling.
regulator2 serino This is an older Subaru that has NO computers at all apart from the one running the engine. The AWD system is completely mechanical in its operation. The front wheel on drivers side (Australia) was not spinning because the front diff is open and it was the wheel with the most traction. It only started spinning later in the video because weight had been transfered to the other wheel on the other side. This is the same way a 'real' four wheel drive system would have behaved although better suspension travel may have applied more weight to the spinning wheel giving it more traction.
Tires wasn't the issue. His car has open differentials. If he had lockers so all 4 wheels spun (AWD over regular 4X4) then he would of made it easily. Now in the right situations tires matter don't get me confused. But in this case even if he had more aggressive tires, with that open diff it's likely he'd of still gotten stuck.
Whilst I agree that tyres were not the main issue more aggressive tyres may have helped (clawing onto the sides of ruts ect) but may not have. As you have said lockers would have made it a walk in the park. I will have to disagree about the reference of front and rear lockers to distinguishing between AWD and 4WD though. AWD means drive is capable of being supplied to both front and rear axles however average rotation of front and rear wheels does not have to be the same. 4WD means that the average rotational speed of the two front wheels is always equal to the two rear wheels. Front and rear lockers could technically be used on both AWD and 4WD systems however typically are only available for 4WD vehicles.
Thanks. I haven't really looked into the whole workings behind the system, I was just going by the basic concept that AWD was all 4 tires turning while 4X4 was as seen above. But you are right, there is much more complexity then that into a AWD system.
@@soundgarden6857 well respectfully as this is around the corner from my house I can tell you running Maxxis trep muddies in the same size made very little difference here where as good LSDs made it heaps easier regardless of tyres. It's doesn't matter what tread you have when a tyre is in the air. Due to uneven ruts and vehicle flotation due to water depth, keeping any weight on wheels was the real problem here.
Would probably get bored. Although in saying that a real 4wd on stock sized tyres would probably have diffed out in that hole. Front and rear independent suspension does have its advantages.
Subaru Off-Road Yeah but that's why you just buy a 4WD with IFS lift it a couple of inches and put mud tyres or all terrains on it. Each to their own though if that is what you enjoy. You'll just get a lot more places that's all. I think it would actually be awesome if Subaru made a rear live axle 4wd with a boxer TD diesel to compete with say the Prado, i'd buy one.
Nice attitude and response. The main thing I like about the Forester (well besides the look of surprise you get from other when you get through a difficult section) is that it is light and nimble and has a low centre of gravity so you can take lines other vehicles can not. Since owning the car I have not once been stopped getting to where I want to go and I try to get to some pretty sketchy locations. The only times I have not been able to complete a track is when I go out looking for extra difficult ones and even then with the winch I can get through almost anything with care. The only one I had no chance of completing was a river so deep I would have just floated away... The only reason I would consider upgrading is for additional storage space and load carrying ability.
Gotchya, I owned the same model and put about 450kms on it, sold it and it is still getting around somewhere. They handle a lot better on road than most 4WDs too, so there is that benefit. I was about to say a set of all terrains would go a long way, but i noticed you've already done that in another video, looks good with the front bar and roof cage too, nicely done.
Yes, I have a firm grasp of the obvious and you hit it way too hard. Without that snorkel you probably would have hydrolock that engine. Never a good idea to come into water at those kind of speeds even with a snorkel. It's dip your toe check the depth and then just move through at a few miles an hour to create a bow wake in front of you.
No disputing any of this. As per the description I was driving quite badly that day. In general I use the approach you have listed. There are some rare instances where more momentum is beneficial however for most cases slow and steady is the way to go.
Jack N. Jill I dont think a CRV can even be mentioned in the same sentence as a forester. Its a good CUV but check out the roller videos if you want to see the real difference in awd capability.
Jack N. Jill It is very very difficult to compare vehicles without driving them in exactly the same conditions, would have been an interesting comparison. If the CRV has traction control it may have helped with the diagonal wheel spin.
Yeah now you gonna need all.your oils drained n flushed n all.new filters etc .just for that ..differentials,transmission, transfer case, breather filters
+Jacob Dawson Personally in this situation I don't believe bigger tyres would have been that beneficial as the vehicle was not bottoming out just suffering from diagonal wheel spin from the ruts under water. The lift from larger tyres may have reduced vehicle flotation slightly helping but not by much.
Might of helped a little but the performance gains from offroad tyres are very much overstated. Doesn't matter what tyre it is, wont do squat if the wheel is off the ground.
For my next trick, I'll take my WRX into this! Next thing I know, I'll be hydrolocked, coils all toast, turbo swamped and stuck right in the middle.
video?
How much water got into the cabin?
Do you worry about getting electricals/electronics wet?
Too fast? Don't be so hard on yourself mate, that was spot on.....and pretty funny!
So glad I picked up a Forester. Awesome vid!
Cheers
that was a pretty good job considering you had no lift or offroad tires.
Actually have a 50mm lift. But you are right about the useless rubber
I think it would be no problem to come out with the current X-Mode !
Front right tire just sitting there doing nothing, gotta love open diffs. Basically the tire with the most traction gets to take a break.
Nope some have vicious rear diffs with open fronts, but I.believe this has a front and rear open diff. Putting a limited slip on the front would only be a good idea if the vehicle was used as just an off-road vehicle which it looks like this. Otherwise torque steer would be a problem.
Gabe Borscheid Helical (torque biasing) LSD is great up front, no detrimental effects on road and great offroad until a wheel is in the air.
+Subaru Off-Road What happens when a wheel gets air? It stops?
Helms from Victoria Australia The wheel will spin. When one wheel is spinning (say a front wheel) then more drive will be sent to the rear wheels. If a front and rear wheel are in the air then they will spin and the car will go nowhere the same as it would in a real 4WD
so the wheel that wants to spin cannot?
By EVENLY applying resistance to all 4 wheels, it helps to more evenly distribute the power. It helps VERY minimally but it's gotten me out of mud pits before.
Yep. Been here before, and often. Its especially tricky if they're covered in snow over thin ice..
Not a problem we have in Australia...
In a way that's a shame, it's kinda fun to suddenly not be in control of your vehicle. Of course, you've solved that dilemma by finding boat-worthy rivers to drive through. Innovative
Is your grill sealed? What mods are you running? Trying to get an idea of what I should do to my Subaru baja.
Nope. Just the snorkel. Mods are lift, snorkel and winch bar in this video
Subarus are the best. And I miss my 98 forester )"
I will be purchasing a Forester this year, need a new work vehicle 🚗, it will just a cheap second car run about and a bit of off roading, most of the foresters I looked at have 100k miles, is there anything I should be concerned about , looking at a 2000 to 2005 models all advice welcome many thanks Steve
As long as it is not 100k miles of offroad use there should be plenty of life left in the car. At that age having the timing belt and water pump done is a good idea. Also I assume you are in the USA, if so you may be better off getting a auto for offroad work as the gearing in the manual will be quite limiting.
Are you running open diffs??
Snorkle aside, this shows the problem with the early AWD as in my 2002 Forester. I've gotten stuck with it where I believe the new AWD will keep me going.
Yes this is the short fall of any basic AWD/4WD system. A front and rear wheel in the air or with low traction means you stop. Traction control would help but can be slow to react. Locked diff in the rear an would have been laughing..
what diff do you have in it ? Looks open - I thought they have viscous diffs in them ? The front left free spins while the right holds. edit - looks like your other videos confirmed it, open. Wow pretty amazing where you are taking the subby. Nice one.
Open front and rear. Now has helical front and Suretrac rear
should be a weapon now.
prana8 Yep also DCCD in the middle. Might upgrade to a plated diff in the rear sometime as the suretrac is useless with a wheel in the air.
Subaru Off-Road I didn't want to say, a mate of mine in the Central Coast who used to rally his WRXs calls them Sureslips. I wonder what he uses for his rally cars nowadays ...
prana8 Probably a plated LSD. I only put it in because it came with the gearbox I got the DCCD out of. Does seem better than a open diff though. Might upgrade one day.
Diff. Lockers all u need. Nice crossing! 👍👍4 Subaru!
Have a rear locker now. Crazy good
Subaru Off-Road yeah! Beasty Sub now! 👍😎
everyone posting about the open front diff and driver didnt even brake lock it, for anyone who wants to know in this situation put your foot on the brake slightly and keep on the power, the brake will add drag to the spinning wheel and drive to the stopped one
This only works on vehicles fitted with ABS. In not ABS vehicles such as this one applying the brakes will not help and will more likely make it more difficult. If you do have ABS or torque biasing or dependant diffs then driving through the brakes can be a good trick.
if you dont have abs just pump the brakes on and off, it will still apply torque to the stationary wheel every time you pump the brake and you can gain enough traction to pull out
I have tried this many times and it has no effect, usually makes it work. Pumping the brakes will apply even brake pressure to BOTH wheels. The open diff can only provide torque to the stationary wheel equal to the torque of the brake force on the spinning wheel. As this torque is also equal to the torque applied by the brakes on the stationary wheel the wheel will not turn. End result is the same as before just the motor has to work harder to work against the brakes.
Ñ
Snorkel and lift. But street tires?
dammm that is heaps good! I'm from Sydney
I have a Subaru Forester '13 model and I love it, it gets me on the beach and the traction control gets me past steep terrain
Unforuntately, definitely can't do this stuff because it doesn't have a snorkel NOR has the opportunity to install one, all those ARB + TJM places doesn't have any accessories for Subaru :(
how did you get your snorkel installed?
Its a snorkel for an older Pajero. Fair bit of custom work to get it installed which I did yourself.
*myself
Subaru Off-Road can you post the make and model of the snorkel? I have a 2001 Forster and want to snorkel it.
There is a link in the video description. Have a look and if you have any further questions let me know.
how did you get out in the end?
btw ignore the keyboard warrior comments saying you could get out blah blah they are just taking the piss
Just a bit more momentum obtained by going back just that little bit further. I probably would have made it through first go but I backed right off after the huge bow wave as I was worried a heap of water went down the snorkel.
ah okay, thanks for the reply.
Subaru Off-Road The way I see, you could get out in the last try because you straighten the wheels.
Saulo Vilanova Yep you are correct about straightening the wheels. I was absolutely buggered when I was driving that afternoon and completely forgot that I had turned the wheels and interestingly there was absolutely no feedback through the steering wheel. The extra momentum from going back further combined with straightening the wheels got me out.
use the e brake and a little left foot braking to get all 4 wheels to engage
TheJstarwalt Tried many times and have found it doesn't have any effect with open diffs front and rear in fact it seems to hinder. The physics behind this concept says it wont work as well
The newer models use electronic braking on individual wheels to do this for you.
Subaru Off-Road I have a Tacoma and hitting the brake and gas at the same time works fantastic
@@SubaruOffRoad you are not doing it correctly then.
@@KLRCoop I am doing it just fine. Unless you have torque biaaing or load dependant LSDs applying the brakes will only hinder on vehicles that do not have ABS. It should help with ABS but this vehicle does not have it. Also the hand brake will do nothing but hinder unless your AWD system is very shitty and you only have one rear wheel spinning.
Good job! I love Subarus!
Incredible!
Yep front and rear open diffs. Hopefully I will upgrade at least the rear sometime soon.
Thankfully you have the generation of forester with limited slip center diff. It’s an easy mod to ad a switch to command a lock on that center diff.
@@HelenFire420 as this is a manual there is no option do add a switch to the centre diff. If it was an auto you could lock the rear transfer clutch up but technically the autos do not have a centre "diff" it's just a clutch to engage the rear wheels when needed.
What the hell. I have one of these. And it has a rear lsd and at2s so it could have handled this even better. What. Foresters are badass
Yes, this early forester with front and rear open diffs wasn't the best. Good thing I have changed that now =)
It is a NH-NK Pajero Snorkel but it had been reshaped a bit by heating with a blowtorch.
I have put a link in the video description with some more details
The beauty of all wheel drive? Not to mention head gasket replacement.
It does fit but only with a fair bit of modification to it...
Why was the front passenger tire not spinning when the other tires didn't' have traction? Seems like it should have started to turn right away once the other tires started to slip.
Front dif isn't limited slip.
Front and rear diff are not limited slip. Base model here with no traction aids...
Subaru Off-Road Hmmm, well that came as a surprise to me at least. I always thought that all Subarus had rear LSD... Have been leaning toward a forester for next car, for the added ground clearance over the outback, but now I see I need to do my homework to see which cars actually have LSDs. (Drive a Octavia 4x4 with open diffs at the moment)
Hampus Lytz Ya I don't know...I've seen other forester videos where the other wheels started spinning much sooner...so I"m not sure...A guy i work with is gonna be selling is 2009 Forester and I'm thinking of buying it. I did learn there is a traction control button (that you can turn off) which gives you the full power without cutting acceleration when the tires start to spin.
Hampus Lytz Stock Subaru rear LSDs are viscous type on most cars except for the high end performance ones. These are an improvement on an open diff but not a significant improvement especially higher km ones.
I have a 2016 Forester, and they insist that power will be delivered to ALL wheels. In your video, it is clear that your right front wheel and perhaps your left rear wheel are not getting full power. That is a bit sobering.
no, that was because the car has no locking differential, so the differential sent torque to the wheels with less grip (which is counter-productive, since all the torque was wasted on barely any grip at all). Like other comments said, a locking differential would have made all the difference, since torque would not be wasted on wheels with less grip.
Nho Minh Đinh So, locking differential is a relatively new development in Subaru? I will not be testing mine like he did, but I am sure that mine is supposed to power all the wheels.
Subaru do use locking differentials (This car should have a rear Limited Slip Diff). But putting lockers on the front of a car that is not a 4x4 is silly (From the manufactures point of view). Power can still go to all wheels however if one front wheel has much less grip than the other, it will spin. It has a rear LSD (Rear Left and Right split) and viscous center diff (Front and Rear split) but it doesn't have a front locking or LSD, That would make it a pig to drive on the road and cornering would be much more difficult, the turning circle would be horrible and a bit dangerous for the typical driver if it decided to lock up. Not to mention the tremendous strain and Diff windup it can create on road. The specific benefit of an LSD in the front is far outweighed by cons. You will find this is pretty standard practice to not put an LSD in the front axle, without a manual control, because it can be dangerous. 4x4 drivers generally do this mod themselves and are aware of the way it will affect the control of the car. Most people will never need the front axle to lock and a skilled driver will be able to get over most obstacles with just a rear LSD or Locker. Car need their front wheels to be able to spin at different speeds to be able to drive and corner effectively. Hope this makes some sense!
An LSD is not a locking differential it is an Limited slip diff. This model came stock with open diffs front and rear. A locker is a zero slip diff and much better off-road especially when wheels are in the air. A locker is a selectable locking diff which is only engaged when needed not a locked on road and is perfectly fine to use on road as its just an open diff until selected. A welded diff is a completely different story. I agree from Subarus perspective it is outside what the car is designed for. The right type of LSD up front is perfectly fine and many performance manufactures have them stock (including Subaru) I now have a front LSD and it is brilliant on and off road
Khadijah - Subaru advertise this on current models and they have traction control systems that brake the spinning wheels so that power is sent to the wheels with grip. This old model does not have any of this fancy technology. Subaru has never used a locking diff.
Snorkel for air intake but what about ECU water protection?
The ECU on the Australian EJ20 SF forester is mounted on the engine and is 100% waterproof. As far I know it is the only Subaru ever made that has a waterproof ECU.
Subaru Off-Road: Great info! This trend-setting ECU should be made standard on all cars, off-road or not.
Thanks and have more fun with your Sub ;)
That's a 1998-2002 model symmetrical all-wheel drive wasn't added until 2003 on up
Not sure this is true as the drive train layout is almost identical in this model to everything else 5 speed (apart from some slight gearing differences).... Some newer models got more advanced traction control systems but that certainly wasnt all models from 2003 onwards... This may have been the time Subaru coined the term (not sure when that actually started) but it does not coincide with any major drive line change...
Subaru Off-Road ok
You fit a snorkel but left the open diffs in?
+Peanutbuterjelly Cost my friend.
Snorkel mod cost
+Subaru Off-Road.... you sir, are full of shit...
+The General... I feel you need to elaborate further on that comment. IMO everything in that comment is fairly accurate.
About how much are the snorkel for this Subaru?
Snorkel is from an nh nk pajero.
@@SubaruOffRoad that's a great deal! Tacoma's snorkel price are ridiculous, $500!
You could pay a lot more. Thats for the cheap option out of China. Works well though
Nice submarine! ;)
+Iñigo Zapata I think you ment Subarmarine
MrTradeTroll Hehehe!
Bet you were singing "halelujahs" once you pulled thru.
where do you get that snorkel?????
Its for a Pajero
Every 4x4 should come with lockers just saying you never know what the road throws ahead
Agreed. Or at least a rear one. Most people do not take there 4x4 off road so I guess manufactures do not see it as a good option.
Would swapping in the limited slip diffs from a STI help?
would be easier to weld them, until you buy a subaru with traction control.
Yes I am sure it would have helped somewhat. That is what I am running now.
You can't weld them if you drive it on the road. Its not even a brilliant idea if you only drive it off road as you will break things eventually.
What's the snorkel off?
Cheers for the link. Turns out I'd already read elfreddos thread on ausub. Didn't realize the same snorkel fitted a foz.
Subaru: I love Emilia
3 wheel drive Subaru, awesome.
lmfao stock tire and it still can get out of that situation
Valon Selimaj ikr
I did that once but without the snorkel. hydrolocked, bent a rod, and drove home on 3 cylinders
Nice!
Actually went through a puddle like that with my '97 RAV4. Did a little better than the Sub, this video surprises me. I always thought Subs could go through stuff like this with no problem. Nice vid though.
if he had better tires he could have made it through no problem
i think the right control arm was stuck in the hump of the trail. the axles on new generation subarus are practically parallel to the ground just like a solid axle. plus this must have the sway bar connected, so the right tire was holding the grip and not enough weight on the left to grip. i have an 86 gl wagon and just the sock suspension gives about a 35 degree angle plus i disconnected the sway bar. believe me, tires is not just the solution, in fact im usin Savero trailer 185 70 13 and im kicking ass with 10psi out of the RHB5. i recently lifted 3 inches the body.
I would have loved to see a RAV4 go through that bog, it would still be there....
The reason why I had so much trouble was the bottom was very uneven so diagonal wheel spin was an issue when combined with the slippery surface and crappy road tyres. I have seen an 80 series landcruiser on muddies having to get snatched out of the exact same bog so I am pretty happy the Subaru got through without help
Subaru Off-Road all you had to do was to loose the sway bars. i have an 86 gl wagon with 185 70 13 trailer tires and i would made it in the first try just for not having sway bars connected. no matter how "big or threaded" the tires are, without the proper suspension articulation it won't go anywhere. by the way, you are ok by enjoying your new generation subaru as it should be treated, like an awesome off road machine subarus are indeed. lol!
lol.that's why we see so many rav4 off road videos I suppose
Amazing!
I have never found driving through the brakes to work at all with open diffs. I cant get my head around why it would help at all either in terms of physics.
By tapping the brakes, it adds resistance to the spinning wheel, this will force power to the wheel that is not recieving any power. Not a replacement for an LSD, but useful on occasion. Very common technique for open diff off roaring.
@@Ferretts89 I have tried this many times. Absolutely no effect on a vehicle without ABS such as this one (actually hinders) and for vehicles with ABS the effects are normally negligible. Works slightly better with automatic with ABS.
@@SubaruOffRoad I would have to venture a guess you aren't doing it properly. Left foot braking, or tapping the brake is super common. Search left foot braking jeep for an untold number of videos demonstrating the technique. Maybe you can learn something rather than being closed minded.
@@Ferretts89 Clearly not closed minded if I have tried it countless times... There is absolutely no physical explanation why this would help in any way. The only thing it could potentially do would be if just one front wheel is lifted and the centre diff is slipping it can send more drive to the rear due to the front brakes being larger than the rears. I will eat my words if you can show me a video of it working in a manual Subaru without ABS and with open diffs...
@@SubaruOffRoad it has nothing to do with abs... I don't think you understand how an open differential works. Power is sent to the wheel with the least resistance. Traction is resistance, braking force on a wheel is resistance. Left foot braking is an attempt to make the resistance on the spinning tire great enough that some of the power will be sent to the other tire. Pretty simple concept but perhaps a link from teraflex might help.
teraflex.com/news_items/open-vs-locked-differentials
It's a delicate technique, however after watching some of your videos, delicate does not seem to be in your repertoire. Hope you can learn this technique next time you go wheeling.
Where did you get that bumper??
Custom made by myself.
@@SubaruOffRoad Damn! That's really nice. I've been looking forever for one that would fit. Was it hard to make?
I thought Subaru's were all wheel drive not two wheel drive
This would be a walk in the park for the amazing Kia sorento 😎
does water get inside??
Some. Depends how deep it is and how long you are in it for. A reasonable amount got in during this video...
This is why I always buy new.
How wet was the interior?
It did get a bit wet in there. Probably 5l of water total.
Very good!
looks like your symetrical AWD stopped working!
It's not stuck... just hasn't found it's way out!
Looks like you could use a set of lockers on the front.
Dont exist, the diff is in the trans, all you can get are lsd's, or weld it if you're ballsy and it's trail only
wtf is taking so long for the front wheel 4 x4 to lock? dumb ass chinese computer suburu using.
regulator2 serino This is an older Subaru that has NO computers at all apart from the one running the engine. The AWD system is completely mechanical in its operation. The front wheel on drivers side (Australia) was not spinning because the front diff is open and it was the wheel with the most traction. It only started spinning later in the video because weight had been transfered to the other wheel on the other side. This is the same way a 'real' four wheel drive system would have behaved although better suspension travel may have applied more weight to the spinning wheel giving it more traction.
Для него - сверх препятствие
Сидел на толчке во время просмотра. Три дня был запор. Пока помогал Субару выехать из трясины, наконец то просрался
The thumbnail was real !
They all are. Nothing worse than a video with a fake thumbnail...
Sub-aru??
Amazing car...👍
Maybe the effects are only marginal and im always to stuck to notice...
Why make it hard? - Track-Left looks much shallower
Left track was only motorcycle width. I am also not a fan of driving round and creating extra tracks unless absolutely necessary...
I came in like a wrecking ball! Lol
All that modification and you drove on road tires? I'm impressed you got out, but you sorta deserved to get stuck with those tires. XD j/k
Tires wasn't the issue. His car has open differentials. If he had lockers so all 4 wheels spun (AWD over regular 4X4) then he would of made it easily.
Now in the right situations tires matter don't get me confused. But in this case even if he had more aggressive tires, with that open diff it's likely he'd of still gotten stuck.
Whilst I agree that tyres were not the main issue more aggressive tyres may have helped (clawing onto the sides of ruts ect) but may not have. As you have said lockers would have made it a walk in the park. I will have to disagree about the reference of front and rear lockers to distinguishing between AWD and 4WD though. AWD means drive is capable of being supplied to both front and rear axles however average rotation of front and rear wheels does not have to be the same. 4WD means that the average rotational speed of the two front wheels is always equal to the two rear wheels. Front and rear lockers could technically be used on both AWD and 4WD systems however typically are only available for 4WD vehicles.
Thanks.
I haven't really looked into the whole workings behind the system, I was just going by the basic concept that AWD was all 4 tires turning while 4X4 was as seen above.
But you are right, there is much more complexity then that into a AWD system.
snorkel and winch with those tires?!
Realistically it's the open diffs that are the problem here, not the tyres.
@@SubaruOffRoad gunna have to disagree respectfully.... ever since i put all terrains on my forester it has made a huge difference in its capability
@@soundgarden6857 well respectfully as this is around the corner from my house I can tell you running Maxxis trep muddies in the same size made very little difference here where as good LSDs made it heaps easier regardless of tyres. It's doesn't matter what tread you have when a tyre is in the air. Due to uneven ruts and vehicle flotation due to water depth, keeping any weight on wheels was the real problem here.
That thing needs LSD's... but it looks like awesome fun
Submarine!
Scubaru!
a Subaru with a winch?
See my other videos. There is a build video on the winch bar.
You can touch the brakes a little and it'll sorda even out the power a little.
must be the L trim. mine is the same way.
love this vid :P
GO YOU GOOD THING
The all new Subaru submersible
Looks like you need some better tires
if u'r going to tackle tracks like that why not just buy a real 4WD
Would probably get bored. Although in saying that a real 4wd on stock sized tyres would probably have diffed out in that hole. Front and rear independent suspension does have its advantages.
Subaru Off-Road Yeah but that's why you just buy a 4WD with IFS lift it a couple of inches and put mud tyres or all terrains on it. Each to their own though if that is what you enjoy. You'll just get a lot more places that's all. I think it would actually be awesome if Subaru made a rear live axle 4wd with a boxer TD diesel to compete with say the Prado, i'd buy one.
Nice attitude and response. The main thing I like about the Forester (well besides the look of surprise you get from other when you get through a difficult section) is that it is light and nimble and has a low centre of gravity so you can take lines other vehicles can not. Since owning the car I have not once been stopped getting to where I want to go and I try to get to some pretty sketchy locations. The only times I have not been able to complete a track is when I go out looking for extra difficult ones and even then with the winch I can get through almost anything with care. The only one I had no chance of completing was a river so deep I would have just floated away... The only reason I would consider upgrading is for additional storage space and load carrying ability.
Gotchya, I owned the same model and put about 450kms on it, sold it and it is still getting around somewhere. They handle a lot better on road than most 4WDs too, so there is that benefit. I was about to say a set of all terrains would go a long way, but i noticed you've already done that in another video, looks good with the front bar and roof cage too, nicely done.
Yes, I have a firm grasp of the obvious and you hit it way too hard. Without that snorkel you probably would have hydrolock that engine. Never a good idea to come into water at those kind of speeds even with a snorkel. It's dip your toe check the depth and then just move through at a few miles an hour to create a bow wake in front of you.
No disputing any of this. As per the description I was driving quite badly that day. In general I use the approach you have listed. There are some rare instances where more momentum is beneficial however for most cases slow and steady is the way to go.
не те покрышки чтобы в грязь соваться...
But what about the new Mercedes with 6 wheels thats 6X6 lol
On my CRV all four wheels pull together at the slightest hint of slippage
Jack N. Jill
I dont think a CRV can even be mentioned in the same sentence as a forester. Its a good CUV but check out the roller videos if you want to see the real difference in awd capability.
Jack N. Jill It is very very difficult to compare vehicles without driving them in exactly the same conditions, would have been an interesting comparison. If the CRV has traction control it may have helped with the diagonal wheel spin.
Dude had no idea which way his wheels were facing lol
Yeah now you gonna need all.your oils drained n flushed n all.new filters etc .just for that ..differentials,transmission, transfer case, breather filters
Well ,as I have diff and transmission breathers Its all good. Transfer case is incorporated into the gearbox and engine breathes through intake.
Need bigger tires! I wish I had money I would do this to my outback!
+Jacob Dawson Personally in this situation I don't believe bigger tyres would have been that beneficial as the vehicle was not bottoming out just suffering from diagonal wheel spin from the ruts under water. The lift from larger tyres may have reduced vehicle flotation slightly helping but not by much.
great car. almost military grade.
Military grade is such a farse!
You think?
or just traction control
Subaru forester is the good car
it's a shame no one makes lockers for subarus
Join the club. There is a company currently considering building one as we speak! www.caplocker.com/
It's a Subaru dude not a submarine.
No off-road tires? Come on man
Might of helped a little but the performance gains from offroad tyres are very much overstated. Doesn't matter what tyre it is, wont do squat if the wheel is off the ground.
good ol open diffs lol
Subie dive head first..Splash!😁😁
next time spin your air inlet the other way around???
Yes that would have been a good move. I backed off completely after I first dived in as I was worried I may have got some water down the snorkel.
Hit the brakes a littlebit, and gas at the same time, its like wheellocks
+pieterklaaskrugmann Tried many times. For vehicles with open diffs it does nothing and usually hinders. One of the most common myths out there.
+Subaru Off-Road is worked for me, keep the brakes a little on , anyway ; cool video
I don't think you took it fast enough..
Да он проехал эту лужу только потому что аоловина воды улетела при ударе в перед )))
looks like im not getting a suburu
regulator2 serino Each to their own. It largely how you drive not what you drive that is more important anyway IMO.