The TR-6 is a great driver's car in my opinion. I own a 1974 TR-6 with a removable hardtop and Overdrive. I did a frame-off restoration and installed Weber carbs on it. It runs beautifully and is a very comfortable car. I am 6 feet 2 inches tall and I find the car has plenty of legroom and it is a great long-distance cruiser especially with the overdrive. I was transferred from California to Florida and I drove the car cross country and enjoyed every mile of the trip.
Years ago I put 4 Honda motorcycle carbs on my '78 TR7. (This was a common trick back then.) I had to make some short stub tubes for direct port induction (found plans in a sports car mag.). I also had to tune the length of the stub tubes (long story). A new roller cam kit and cam, with an electronic ignition kit really helped as well. The electronic ignition kit was a huge improvement. Dramatically increased the horsepower (never dyno'd though). I quickly learned that the stock radiator couldn't keep up, so I had to get a bigger triple pass radiator as well with two electric booster fans (removed the engine mounted fan). Worked really well even with the AC on. (Yes, the TR7 had AC!!!) Drove it coast to coast several times. Loved that car. Good times.
I loved my TR7. I put almost 90,000 miles on it but the gear box was not very robust and I could put a head gasket on it in the dark in less than two hours..
Several years ago I put a pair of SU HS6 carbs on my '74 TR6 and have been a very happy camper ever since. The simplicity of these carbs and reliability cannot be beat.
I have a 1969 TR6 I've owned for 31 years. I did a triple Weber conversion about 20 years ago. I know Weber's are more for a racing application (and SU's are very nice). I'm just a country road driver, but they look cool and the performance upgrade is nice.
My word this takes me back to my mechanic days in the late 70's. When I was an apprentice, one of the old boy mechanics showed me how to balance twin SU's by listening to the suction on the venturi with a rubber hose and compare the hissing. Fairly accurate when tested with a meter. Wouldn't pass emissions now of course! Simple, easy carbs with one main jet. I seem to remember that they were the most efficient carb at the time? The boy racers used to upgrade to twin choke webbers just to be cool. The TR6, nice car! Better than the later TR7 rot box (TR8 in North America). Great video by the way, thanks for the nostalgia!!
TR7s in North America were four cylinder 2.0 engines. First with 175CDSEs and later Bosch style FI. TR8s were 3.5 Rover V8s. The first ones( 1978?) had carbs and later got a similar Bosch style FI system. TR8s usually got a four barrel carb manifold and either a Holley or Edelbrock (Carter/Weber) carb.
I've worked on British cars and carbs for years. SUs have their own issues, about on a level playing field with the Strombergs. If it were my TR, I'd have just overhauled the carbs completely. Throttle shaft wear/carb body wear is a big problem for both carb brands. New throttle shafts, rebush the carb bodies, new diaphragms, a simple overhaul kit, and a proper tuning is all that was really needed here.
I am really impressed with this fellow. If he lived down the road from me I could keep my old cars running beyond 30 years. Thanks for the great video. You inspire us Sir.
Stromberg carburetors work perfectly fine if properly rebuilt. Including the throttle shafts. You need to add a heat shield, and high quality thermal spacers. The thermal spacers I used Iast time I believe were off a Datsun 240Z. Check for vacuum leaks. A lot of time on the strombergs it's a bad diaphragm. The oil dampeners are improperly filled. They look like Phillips head screws but they're not, get the proper tool. They're called Cross Drive. People try to adjust carburetors without having properly eliminated vacuum leaks. First static time your motor. Then eliminate all vacuum leaks. Replace the diaphragms. Inspect the needle valves. Rinse with carburetor cleaner. Reassemble the carburetor. Lubricate the linkage. Change the plugs. Change the spark plug wires. New cap and new rotor. Convert to electronic ignition. You're now ready to adjust your carburetors. After your carburetors are synchronized and adjusted. Adjust the valves, reset your timing with a proper timing light. I've owned three TR6. Jags, MG's, Austin-Healey, Porsches, BMWs. I stopped counting at 245.
'Cross Drive'? I believe you are referring to Pozidriv. Phillips screwdrivers *will* work, but will eventually strip out since there is less contact area in the screw head when using a philips tool. During each of my 3 trips to the UK I have always gone into a Halford's and bought some Pozidriv screwdrivers so I have a good supply for my Triumph(s) and my Rover. Philips have never been used there, and a philips will *not* work in a Pozidriv.
Me and my brother went to Paul Cerame back in 74. My brother bought a new TR6. Same color as shown here. It came with the SU carbs on, brand new 0 miles on. It was a really nice ride too.
excellent video and nice car. thought id throw in a few observations.1. The pipe from the EVAP canister to the carbs crankcase port, should have a restrictor orifice of about 2mm (at the canister end), if not the carbs will suck in too much air and wreck the mixture setting. 2.the original airbox is arguably the better set up, see Chris Witor website. either way the housings should be fitted with ram pipes/ stub stacks to improve air flow into carbs. 3. the float chamber lids can be rotated round. 4. a throttle cable might be easier. 5. if the carbs dont have a vacuum advance connection (they should have on HS carbs to run as ported vac advance) you can always drill a connection on the inlet manifold and run it on full manifold vacuum advance. Dont run a road car without vacuum advance, it just wastes fuel for no performance benefit.im not criticising, hope it helps.
I did a SU conversion on a friends 1969 TR6 40 years ago after the Strombergs fouled up for the 3rd time (air leaks galore), in those days and year of TR6 it was a simple extension to the throttle linkage shaft that made the SU's work. the SU's came from a 1968 Volvo with a conversion kit with a larger jet needles and jet tubes from Volvo 164 kit. my friend drove that car another 10 years before the rear suspension rusted out and he sold it to a another friend was going to restore it. good ole Lucas electronics (AKA the prince of darkness) not the first time i've seen a rotor fall apart like that.
Never seen a TR6 with carbs before. My dad was a Triumph nut and had a TR6 and Mk1 2500 PI both with the mechanical Lucas FI. 150bhp IIRC. He was a real pro and timing the injector pump.
I had a 55 Healey 100/4 with SU carbs. Never cared for Stromberges. SU's are very simple to work on once you understand the concept of how they work. Nice video and a good looking car. First Triumph I've seen in a while that wasn't a pile of rust.
There is another way of running the vac advance if there is no port on the carbs. get a vac switch from the bone yard, found on lots of cars to operate the egr and such, plumb it inline from manifold vac to the pot, wire it via a micro switch set to close the circuit off idle on the throttle linkage ....viola.
I used to love working on these Triumph 2.5 motors. As standard they are quite a lazy motor with loads of torque, but put a different cam in and port the head and fit triple webers (basically what TVR did) and boy....what a difference...great sound too! I would love to see what you could get out of these motors with a modern fuel injection and ignition system.
I put a 2.5 TR-6 engine in my GT-6 around 1980. I could never leave well enough alone so I adapted a Chevy Monza overdriven 5 speed T-50 transmission, Chevy clutch and flywheel, Chevy starter. Then I welded up my own exhaust manifold and mounted the same Rajay turbocharger they used on 240-Z Datsuns. I adapted a Pontiac vacuum advance/pressure retard unit to the distributor. This thing ran like a scalded ape. It sucked through a 2 inch SU carb and I had water/alcohol injection come on at 8psi boost. Max boost 13psi. The pressure switch that controlled the water/alcohol pump came off a Bell Huey helicopter. In 3rd gear going up our local freeway on ramp, the rear tires would break loose at 3500 rpm. The way it came on was like a 2 stroke engine. It worked great. It accelerated just as fast as a 930 Turbo Carrera. As I recall, it blew 11 different differential units. Just accelerate, never bang the clutch and every few weeks the differential would go bang. I had a Jag IRS rear end ocut down but never did. The crank and rods in the engine are very strong. What happened was that stock piston ring lands would collapse and when the pistons were removed, broken rings and chunks fell out in pieces. I replaced 3 sets of stock pistons and wanted to have custom forged units made. That was an expensive proposition so I parked the car for years with broken rings, smoking like hell when started. I sold it. Those connecting rods with the oddball split big ends and the standard bearings held up very well. There were no cylinder head problems and head gaskets survived. I'll bet modern FI ,ignition and cam really would wake the engine up well. The transmission and clutch would be marginal, though.
@@kimmer6 That always was a fools mission not to swap the diff, ALL the Triumph diffs were terrible; even a hot 2000 Vitesse would snap the stub axles like carrots, a 240Z diff would be the ticket, because the GT6 was a sweet little car.
@@racketman2u After buying a Ferrari 308GTS, I lost all interest in things Triumph. I still have a Spitfire in the garage that has not been driven since 2006. I have no plans to dig it out anytime soon.
Great job! I did something similar with my 1970, replacing the constricted Strombergs with a pair of 2.25" SUs from an E-type. Hd the intake manifold machined to size straight through, added a set of K&N air filters and presto, improved performance by about 15 HP. I polished the carbs with Filtz and they ended up with a mirror finish. I did find I had to "breathe" the new carbs by putting a split washer under the plastic cap. And interestingly, the colour of your car is the same as mine.
Enjoyed watching this. I think the simplicity of the SU carbs is what made them popular. Few moving parts and relatively easy to set up/adjust. Very off topic, but I decided to fit an SU HS6 to my series Land Rover, in place of the Weber 34 ich that it came with - I haven't looked back since! A better torque curve and a bit more power - seems to return a respectable fuel consumption too. I only wish it was as shiny as the new units... At the end of the video, you mentioned a drawback about the fuel inlet on the top of the float bowl interfering with the filter housing. You can unscrew the top and twist it round to fit three ways (in line with the screw pattern). Alternatively, as someone else on here suggested, there's the option of doing what Volvo did which is to reverse the carbs so that both float bowls face each other.
Back in the day Piranha electronic ignition was the order of the day, what a difference it made. I use to love topping up the dashpots each drive! Great video... but please use some protection on that wing when you're working on it!
Very nice TR6. My brother had one exactly like it, same color and all. It was really cool until someone stole it from my mom & dad's driveway. I got to drive it once and loved it ever since. These cars are just a lot of fun to drive.
@R Mack what's clear is that some are cup half full, and some are cup.. err just love to bitch and criticise others.... a little support goes a lonnnnng way
@R Mack didn't hurt me one bit princess, but it become tiresome when armchair heros do nothing but critisize those who try to do something good with their lives. maybe get out of mommies basement and try being constructive instead of destructive for once .. have a nice day :)
Nice conversion I like the K&N air cleaners over the stock set up. If it was concourse well that’s another deal there but that’s why we don’t throw anything away! Nice job with it Steve be safe buddy
I had this thought in my subconscious and glad you were able to bring it to the surface. I agree the background music is really quite irritating. Great video otherwise as always.
Hi Steve. The Strombergs, as you know, were fitted to comply with U.S. emission laws and the same applied to the XJ you showed us . Over here in England Jaguars were predominately on S.U. 's And TR6's had Lucas fuel injection. The story goes that the reason for not supplying TR6's to the U.S. in P.I. form was costs not emissions. And when you were fitting all those "T" joints that old song Tea for two and two for tea came mind!😩😨 perhaps l should have kept that one to myself! So, you have to tell me, is this a business or just shear indulgence! Cheers
This TR6 is owned by a friend but usually I film my own cars. I collect the cars for fun and not with the intention to sell them. Although I do sell a car occasionally if I find I don’t like it or I realize I never drive it.
@@ThisWeekWithCars Thanks Steve. I saw a number of M.G.B. GT's in the background when viewing the 4.0 litre Disco... Your a glutton for punishment! All good stuff.
I remember the strombergs being a pain in the arse to tune and then so many P.I.'s being converted to S.U.'s for lack of bullshit! Fingers crossed the Laycock de Normanville doesn't shit out! :-)
@@ThisWeekWithCars I've just come across your videos. I happen to like old British cars. My all time favourite is the Jaguar series 3 E type V12. Have you worked on these fitting the SU's to the V12? That TR 6 looks mint. Thx for the video.
@@__DA___ The P.I.'s always seemed to have sooty exhaust pipes, were they usually set up a bit rich for performance rather than leaner for fuel economy? Perhaps the conversion to S.U.s actually gave better economy?
And what`s the reason to replace the Strombergs ? They were used in the old Mercedes 123 and some other cars.They usually worked for years without any trouble.All what they required was some easy maintanance.
C'mon Leon, you know that the 'government' here F'ed 'em up with their bloody sealed jets and temp. compensators. At least they never inflicted those damn Waxstats on us, eh?
Put a port in the intake manifold for engine vacuum. Very easy some of the earlier SU carbs had them as I remember. the float bowl vent also vents vapor from the carb for emissions. I messed with these carbs for years and always had good luck with them as long as the throttle shafts were not worn out or the butterfly worn out. The old Volvo mechanics used to mostly say the SUs worked better than the Webers and the Strombergs were just horrible junk. Lots of Harley owner would run one SU. When in good shape the SUs were the one to beat.
Quick comment. You should see a performance improvement, replacing worn Strombies with new SUs. But in 20 years you will get the same improvement replacing your now worn SUs with new Strombergs. A rebuild would have done the trick. These are pretty equivalent carbs, nothing wrong with either of ‘em.
I agree But SU Carb Better Quality Carb, Easier to Adjust Fuel Mixture, Don't have to Deal with Tears in Rubber Diaphragms Plus Looks more British with Skinner Union Carbs, Hell Rolls Royce was using SUs up till switch to Bosch Fuel Injection SU carbs look real nice Buff them out
I had two TR6's. A 71 and a 76. The 71 was a pos, but the 76 was a daily driver, color was pimento orange. Really cool car. I remember filling the dash pots on the Strombergs with 10w oil and cleaning the points every two weeks!
That's a beautiful little car - makes me proud to be British! What happened to British car industry? We should be making millions of quality British cars.
I must say that I had three Triumph sixes; a 2000 and two 2500s and never had any trouble with the Strombergs on any of them, but maybe I was just lucky...
12:30 Steve, the adjustment procedure in this video goes a bit too fast for me. I seem to recall that you had another video where you demonstrate in detail how to adjust a dual carb system. Unfortunately am I not able to find that video. Can you please point me in the right direction: which video has this explanation? I am looking for a clear explanation on how to do the adjustment on the dual SU HS4 which are on my 1964 MGB.
If you do a cam and headers on a TR6 (or a TVR with the same lump), 2" SU's are an excellent alternative to expensive and fiddly triple Webers, and are capable of nearly as much power on the street.
On the contrary, SUs are constantly going out of tune due to their moving parts, triple Webers produce more power, stay in tune, and have so much better throttle response it's like night and day. The only tricky part is the original jetting and emulsion tube selection, because few speed shops know how to do it.
My car came with 4 of the 40DCNF downdraft Webbers, the last year before they put in fuel injection. I never had a bit of trouble with them. I never used the choke. 2 pumps with the gas pedal and the engine fired right up.
If you are going to that expense why not upgrade to webber's or better yet install the Lucas injection system, remanufactured units are very reliable now.
Good Choice SU Carbs plus Looks more British under the Hood. I found Adjusting Fuel Mixture a little more Richer Improves Idle Quality and Improves Higher RPM Power along with Advancing the Ignition Timing un till hear Engine Ping than Re-Tard a few Degrees until Engine Stops Pinging also Recommend NGK Spark Plugs and High Quality Spark Plug Wires universal set MSD or NGK, Check Adjust Valve Lash Cold a Slightly Loose Valve Lash is Better than too Tight Valve Lash which can Burn up your Valves and use Good Quality Brand Gas Experiment with lower Octane or Higher premium Octane see if there's a Difference on how Engine Runs that year Engine has Low Compression for Lower Emission and use Lower Octane Gas
Those extended shafts will be a drama. An overhead hexagon linkage with a adjustable pull rods is far better, they never go out of adjustment. You should not tee the engine breather into the cannister or it will stuff it up. Breather should go to the airfilter. Those airfilters strain the rocks but not the dust. And ingest a lot of heat.Great for racing inside a cold air box but the factory filter will be far better for street and quieter also
In the USA in '68 they were forced to fit solid plugs under the jets, rendering them unadjustable and thus untunable. You could adjust the idle mixture in a limited range, but for performance modifications they were pretty useless.
@@mescko They were blocked off on the bottom to keep the average Joe from messing with them but they are adjustable through the top with a special tool. I just put a pair of Jag CD's on another experimental aircraft engine for a customer & I supply the tool so they can fine adjust.
@@nzsaltflatsracer8054 They are adjustable but the range is pretty limited. And the biased needle design eventually wears an oblong hole in the jet then it will never tune properly. Early adjustable jet CD's are okay, but the SU will never need diaphragms replaced either. I guess I just view then as a lesser product. They were designed deliberately as a constant depression carburetor that got around all of the SU patents, and I think it shows.
@@mescko One of my earlier twin CD conversions has over 600 hrs on it now with no wear on the needle or jet & I open them up every time I do the Annual inspection for the owner. Selecting the correct needle for the application is important to get the jetting correct across the whole range & then a small adjustment might be needed depending on the DA of that day. I expected the CD with it's spring loaded needle to wear more than the SU but have seen no difference between them but the CD compensates for altitude changes in aircraft better than the SU.
I prefer the SU carburettors assembly of my Volvo P1800 S. Inverted assembly, the one on the right on the left and the one on the left on the right. Fewer hoses.....
Hey Steve - since your Jaguar XJ6 uses Stromberg 175 CDs just like the TR6 - do you think you'd consider switching those too? If so PLEASE make a video! Thanks! Tom
I beg to differ that I think there are work perfectly and flawlessly well when they're set up right and balanced and if you don't know how to do it then obviously don't need the carburetors on the car
Nice explanation of the change out. I don’t like the plumbing. Having to file parts down, run the fuel lines and have them sit on the wheel well, unable to reuse the original air cleaner, running lines into a no longer working charcoal canister and then potentially having fuel drip onto the ground is non professional. This change out is screaming for a better solution
You think those carbs were a problem. I had a UK car with Lucas injection. Was a pain in the ass. I eventually wrote it off in a fire attempting to change the lucas fuel pump. The dripping fuel ignited.
I've heard worse, and really didn't notice it until your comment. At least there wasn't that generic dad heavy metal or fake Mumford and Sons in the background. That's the worst.
What fuel line brand are you using? I have a 79 spit6 that I am building and have heard great things about Gates Barricade lines being ethanol resistant, just curious if that was what you were using or if there was something else that you have found that works.
@@ThisWeekWithCars the problem isn't me wanting to run fuel without ethanol, it's finding stations that have ethanol free fuel. In PA most of the stations are usually at minimum 10% ethanol content and some are at 15%.
My opinion of Zenith-Strombergs, and I have been a mechanic for over 35 years and have been working on ZS and SU's for many of those years, is that ZS carbs are VERY good. Most folks bad mouthing them either have no idea what they are talking about or don't have proper knowledge for repairing them. They can wear out just like any other carb, and the flexible pieces can dry rot, etc. the same as any other carb. When repaired and tuned properly, ZS carbs are rock solid.
Nice job and great looking car. It’s been a while since I stripped one but from memory can you not take the top off the float bowl and move it round to get the fuel inlet where you want it- think the 3 holes are equally spaced? I may be dreaming that though. Also it looked from the final view that the fuel hose is resting on the inner wing with no clips. If so surely it risks wearing through with engine movement, or at least rubbing that lovely paint off?
Not saying there is anything wrong with the SU but you spent @ $1200 but don't provide any justification for the expense. I would have even accepted you like the shiny chrome. Realistically, I am not sure you could justify replacing to good working Stromburgs. If I HAD to buy new carbs I would consider but otherwise I can buy a lot of rebuild kits for $1200.
I have dyno'd enough TR6s including this one to know the Strombergs are not working as good as the SUs. The Strombergs even if working correctly won't be for long, the US spec emissions carbs are terrible things.
@@ThisWeekWithCars I am not disputing that it is a better carb. Just that the implication is this would be a good investment. I just think you would server your viewers better by explaining why. What is my return on investment? For instance people would no doubt consider $1200 bucks for a 5hp gain a good Investment. I would not. However, if I am getting a 25hp gain I may take another look. Yes, every car is different but some range of what improvement is to be expected would be beneficial. Your video is appreciated. I am just pointing out that in the future you might be able to improve in a way that is helpful to those of us viewing.
The female jets on the Strombergs were fixed in place for Emission purposes. However, shops had tools for adjusting them just the same. I did all of my adjustments with an exhaust gas analyser, and such a machine when properly used, is a major tool in making an engine from this era run correctly. I would have repaired the Strombergs. To each his own.
SU possibly better than Stromberg, but still not great. The fact they are new should improve things. Any way you can fit the original airbox with 2 new holes? K&N are not great at filtering and it looks boy-racer :-( . My experience with SU/Stromberg: Austin 2200, numerous Mini, Rover 3500, Humber Sceptre, Austin Princess, Austin 1300, Triumph 2500, Triumph Herald 2000... Think that's it! Twin side draft Webers, now you are talking! 45s Big enough unless you have lots of mods.
Yes K&N's are controversial. I'm a fan due to the much better breathing and I've never had an engine wear out prematurely due to poor filtration or had an issue with `snotty' MAF sensors. The increase in performance was most marked on an old naturally aspirated 1769 cc Citroen Diesel Visa 17RD I owned back in the day (not a very admired car admittedly but 55 UK MPG seemingly however you drove it).
I always liked Strombergs on my 2000 saloons. I always felt SU carbs were Leyland/MG castoffs, although I had a set in my late 2500 saloon. As I recall the SU's were anti tamper and had wax things (Waxstat?). I'm not such a snob these days! Great video, btw.
This is totally unnecessary. Certainly, new SU's are better than Strombergs that need a rebuild. I'm running 3 Strombergs along with other modifications, in my TR6 and she sings. Rebuild the Strombergs and tune them, they are easy to tune, and are very reliable. Some will say SU's add horsepower, that's just not true. No offense, I like your videos.
The TR-6 is a great driver's car in my opinion. I own a 1974 TR-6 with a removable hardtop and Overdrive. I did a frame-off restoration and installed Weber carbs on it. It runs beautifully and is a very comfortable car. I am 6 feet 2 inches tall and I find the car has plenty of legroom and it is a great long-distance cruiser especially with the overdrive. I was transferred from California to Florida and I drove the car cross country and enjoyed every mile of the trip.
Years ago I put 4 Honda motorcycle carbs on my '78 TR7. (This was a common trick back then.) I had to make some short stub tubes for direct port induction (found plans in a sports car mag.). I also had to tune the length of the stub tubes (long story). A new roller cam kit and cam, with an electronic ignition kit really helped as well. The electronic ignition kit was a huge improvement. Dramatically increased the horsepower (never dyno'd though). I quickly learned that the stock radiator couldn't keep up, so I had to get a bigger triple pass radiator as well with two electric booster fans (removed the engine mounted fan). Worked really well even with the AC on. (Yes, the TR7 had AC!!!) Drove it coast to coast several times. Loved that car. Good times.
I loved my TR7. I put almost 90,000 miles on it but the gear box was not very robust and I could put a head gasket on it in the dark in less than two hours..
Several years ago I put a pair of SU HS6 carbs on my '74 TR6 and have been a very happy camper ever since. The simplicity of these carbs and reliability cannot be beat.
DITTO!
I have a 1969 TR6 I've owned for 31 years. I did a triple Weber conversion about 20 years ago. I know Weber's are more for a racing application (and SU's are very nice). I'm just a country road driver, but they look cool and the performance upgrade is nice.
My word this takes me back to my mechanic days in the late 70's. When I was an apprentice, one of the old boy mechanics showed me how to balance twin SU's by listening to the suction on the venturi with a rubber hose and compare the hissing. Fairly accurate when tested with a meter. Wouldn't pass emissions now of course! Simple, easy carbs with one main jet. I seem to remember that they were the most efficient carb at the time? The boy racers used to upgrade to twin choke webbers just to be cool. The TR6, nice car! Better than the later TR7 rot box (TR8 in North America). Great video by the way, thanks for the nostalgia!!
TR7s in North America were four cylinder 2.0 engines. First with 175CDSEs and later Bosch style FI. TR8s were 3.5 Rover V8s. The first ones( 1978?) had carbs and later got a similar Bosch style FI system. TR8s usually got a four barrel carb manifold and either a Holley or Edelbrock (Carter/Weber) carb.
I've worked on British cars and carbs for years. SUs have their own issues, about on a level playing field with the Strombergs. If it were my TR, I'd have just overhauled the carbs completely. Throttle shaft wear/carb body wear is a big problem for both carb brands. New throttle shafts, rebush the carb bodies, new diaphragms, a simple overhaul kit, and a proper tuning is all that was really needed here.
Yes just traded one type of issues for another: Strombergs are complete equals.
I am really impressed with this fellow. If he lived down the road from me I could keep my old cars running beyond 30 years. Thanks for the great video. You inspire us Sir.
Stromberg carburetors work perfectly fine if properly rebuilt.
Including the throttle shafts.
You need to add a heat shield, and high quality thermal spacers.
The thermal spacers I used Iast time I believe were off a Datsun 240Z. Check for vacuum leaks.
A lot of time on the strombergs it's a bad diaphragm. The oil dampeners are improperly filled.
They look like Phillips head screws but they're not, get the proper tool.
They're called Cross Drive.
People try to adjust carburetors without having properly eliminated vacuum leaks.
First static time your motor.
Then eliminate all vacuum leaks.
Replace the diaphragms.
Inspect the needle valves.
Rinse with carburetor cleaner.
Reassemble the carburetor.
Lubricate the linkage.
Change the plugs.
Change the spark plug wires.
New cap and new rotor.
Convert to electronic ignition.
You're now ready to adjust your carburetors. After your carburetors
are synchronized and adjusted.
Adjust the valves, reset your timing with a proper timing light.
I've owned three TR6.
Jags, MG's, Austin-Healey,
Porsches, BMWs. I stopped counting at 245.
@Sean m : You sound like a typical American Sean.
'Cross Drive'? I believe you are referring to Pozidriv. Phillips screwdrivers *will* work, but will eventually strip out since there is less contact area in the screw head when using a philips tool. During each of my 3 trips to the UK I have always gone into a Halford's and bought some Pozidriv screwdrivers so I have a good supply for my Triumph(s) and my Rover. Philips have never been used there, and a philips will *not* work in a Pozidriv.
Me and my brother went to Paul Cerame back in 74. My brother bought a new TR6. Same color as shown here. It came with the SU carbs on, brand new 0 miles on. It was a really nice ride too.
excellent video and nice car. thought id throw in a few observations.1. The pipe from the EVAP canister to the carbs crankcase port, should have a restrictor orifice of about 2mm (at the canister end), if not the carbs will suck in too much air and wreck the mixture setting. 2.the original airbox is arguably the better set up, see Chris Witor website. either way the housings should be fitted with ram pipes/ stub stacks to improve air flow into carbs. 3. the float chamber lids can be rotated round. 4. a throttle cable might be easier. 5. if the carbs dont have a vacuum advance connection (they should have on HS carbs to run as ported vac advance) you can always drill a connection on the inlet manifold and run it on full manifold vacuum advance. Dont run a road car without vacuum advance, it just wastes fuel for no performance benefit.im not criticising, hope it helps.
I did a SU conversion on a friends 1969 TR6 40 years ago after the Strombergs fouled up for the 3rd time (air leaks galore), in those days and year of TR6 it was a simple extension to the throttle linkage shaft that made the SU's work. the SU's came from a 1968 Volvo with a conversion kit with a larger jet needles and jet tubes from Volvo 164 kit. my friend drove that car another 10 years before the rear suspension rusted out and he sold it to a another friend was going to restore it.
good ole Lucas electronics (AKA the prince of darkness) not the first time i've seen a rotor fall apart like that.
Never seen a TR6 with carbs before. My dad was a Triumph nut and had a TR6 and Mk1 2500 PI both with the mechanical Lucas FI. 150bhp IIRC.
He was a real pro and timing the injector pump.
I don't think fuel injection was an option for the American market due to tight emission regulations.
@@MyJon64 You're correct. For emissions reasons, the Lucas PI was never offered in North America for either the TR250 or TR6.
You should get in the habit of using fender covers, sooner or later your going to drop something, and have some nasty paint damage. Great videos.
Yup, I cringed when he leaned over the fender. Belt buckles are killer on paint.
I had a 55 Healey 100/4 with SU carbs. Never cared for Stromberges. SU's are very simple to work on once you understand the concept of how they work. Nice video and a good looking car. First Triumph I've seen in a while that wasn't a pile of rust.
Beautiful blue Triumph.
There is another way of running the vac advance if there is no port on the carbs. get a vac switch from the bone yard, found on lots of cars to operate the egr and such, plumb it inline from manifold vac to the pot, wire it via a micro switch set to close the circuit off idle on the throttle linkage ....viola.
Enjoyable, well presented and nice to see someone going about their work in a calm and logical manner. Hope you make videos in this style.
I used to love working on these Triumph 2.5 motors. As standard they are quite a lazy motor with loads of torque, but put a different cam in and port the head and fit triple webers (basically what TVR did) and boy....what a difference...great sound too!
I would love to see what you could get out of these motors with a modern fuel injection and ignition system.
I put a 2.5 TR-6 engine in my GT-6 around 1980. I could never leave well enough alone so I adapted a Chevy Monza overdriven 5 speed T-50 transmission, Chevy clutch and flywheel, Chevy starter. Then I welded up my own exhaust manifold and mounted the same Rajay turbocharger they used on 240-Z Datsuns. I adapted a Pontiac vacuum advance/pressure retard unit to the distributor. This thing ran like a scalded ape. It sucked through a 2 inch SU carb and I had water/alcohol injection come on at 8psi boost. Max boost 13psi. The pressure switch that controlled the water/alcohol pump came off a Bell Huey helicopter. In 3rd gear going up our local freeway on ramp, the rear tires would break loose at 3500 rpm. The way it came on was like a 2 stroke engine.
It worked great. It accelerated just as fast as a 930 Turbo Carrera. As I recall, it blew 11 different differential units. Just accelerate, never bang the clutch and every few weeks the differential would go bang. I had a Jag IRS rear end ocut down but never did. The crank and rods in the engine are very strong. What happened was that stock piston ring lands would collapse and when the pistons were removed, broken rings and chunks fell out in pieces. I replaced 3 sets of stock pistons and wanted to have custom forged units made. That was an expensive proposition so I parked the car for years with broken rings, smoking like hell when started. I sold it.
Those connecting rods with the oddball split big ends and the standard bearings held up very well. There were no cylinder head problems and head gaskets survived. I'll bet modern FI ,ignition and cam really would wake the engine up well. The transmission and clutch would be marginal, though.
@@kimmer6 That always was a fools mission not to swap the diff, ALL the Triumph diffs were terrible; even a hot 2000 Vitesse would snap the stub axles like carrots, a 240Z diff would be the ticket, because the GT6 was a sweet little car.
@@racketman2u After buying a Ferrari 308GTS, I lost all interest in things Triumph. I still have a Spitfire in the garage that has not been driven since 2006. I have no plans to dig it out anytime soon.
Great job! I did something similar with my 1970, replacing the constricted Strombergs with a pair of 2.25" SUs from an E-type. Hd the intake manifold machined to size straight through, added a set of K&N air filters and presto, improved performance by about 15 HP. I polished the carbs with Filtz and they ended up with a mirror finish. I did find I had to "breathe" the new carbs by putting a split washer under the plastic cap. And interestingly, the colour of your car is the same as mine.
Enjoyed watching this. I think the simplicity of the SU carbs is what made them popular. Few moving parts and relatively easy to set up/adjust. Very off topic, but I decided to fit an SU HS6 to my series Land Rover, in place of the Weber 34 ich that it came with - I haven't looked back since! A better torque curve and a bit more power - seems to return a respectable fuel consumption too. I only wish it was as shiny as the new units...
At the end of the video, you mentioned a drawback about the fuel inlet on the top of the float bowl interfering with the filter housing. You can unscrew the top and twist it round to fit three ways (in line with the screw pattern). Alternatively, as someone else on here suggested, there's the option of doing what Volvo did which is to reverse the carbs so that both float bowls face each other.
Would you be able to do an in depth video on your SU carb tuning? Would be super helpful! Great work, keep up the videos!
Back in the day Piranha electronic ignition was the order of the day, what a difference it made. I use to love topping up the dashpots each drive! Great video... but please use some protection on that wing when you're working on it!
Very nice TR6. My brother had one exactly like it, same color and all. It was really cool until someone stole it from my mom & dad's driveway. I got to drive it once and loved it ever since. These cars are just a lot of fun to drive.
I noticed that he did not use a work cover on the fender of his prized auto to prevent damage/scratches
gee you guys should get together and do some car resto videos, its clear you could do sooooo much better
@R Mack Man is just getting started dude, doesn't have that many videos yet. Clearly passionate and knowledgeable, the editing takes practice.
@R Mack what's clear is that some are cup half full, and some are cup.. err just love to bitch and criticise others.... a little support goes a lonnnnng way
@R Mack didn't hurt me one bit princess, but it become tiresome when armchair heros do nothing but critisize those who try to do something good with their lives.
maybe get out of mommies basement and try being constructive instead of destructive for once .. have a nice day :)
Belting car Steve,always nice to buy new stuff.
Thumbs up.
Thanks for the video Steve! I really enjoy them.
Impressed you called it a bonnet rather than hood, after all its a brit car, no problem with hood for American automobiles though!
Nice conversion I like the K&N air cleaners over the stock set up. If it was concourse well that’s another deal there but that’s why we don’t throw anything away! Nice job with it Steve be safe buddy
For these types of video the background music track is not really needed. Just an observation. Otherwise great content.
I had this thought in my subconscious and glad you were able to bring it to the surface. I agree the background music is really quite irritating. Great video otherwise as always.
I agree, very irritating
+1
Fought those darned Strombergs for years. Finally ended up selling the car before I could ever switch them out.
If you don't want those stromberg's I'll take them. Still running the original carbs in my 1969 Tr6.
I enjoy your presentations, nice work shop I could never afford that set up.
You're making me cringe with no fender covers on that beauty....
I wonder if Mikuni makes a carb that would work? And I'm sure Weber does!
i live in England my brother had one a TR6 i t was 1976 i loved it yellow it was it was a fuel injection model what a car i loved it
Hi Steve. The Strombergs, as you know, were fitted to comply with U.S. emission laws and the same applied to the XJ you showed us . Over here in England Jaguars were predominately on S.U. 's And TR6's had Lucas fuel injection. The story goes that the reason for not supplying TR6's to the U.S. in P.I. form was costs not emissions. And when you were fitting all those "T" joints that old song Tea for two and two for tea came mind!😩😨 perhaps l should have kept that one to myself! So, you have to tell me, is this a business or just shear indulgence! Cheers
This TR6 is owned by a friend but usually I film my own cars. I collect the cars for fun and not with the intention to sell them. Although I do sell a car occasionally if I find I don’t like it or I realize I never drive it.
@@ThisWeekWithCars Thanks Steve. I saw a number of M.G.B. GT's in the background when viewing the 4.0 litre Disco... Your a glutton for punishment! All good stuff.
I remember the strombergs being a pain in the arse to tune and then so many P.I.'s being converted to S.U.'s for lack of bullshit! Fingers crossed the Laycock de Normanville doesn't shit out! :-)
@@ThisWeekWithCars I've just come across your videos. I happen to like old British cars. My all time favourite is the Jaguar series 3 E type V12. Have you worked on these fitting the SU's to the V12? That TR 6 looks mint. Thx for the video.
@@__DA___ The P.I.'s always seemed to have sooty exhaust pipes, were they usually set up a bit rich for performance rather than leaner for fuel economy?
Perhaps the conversion to S.U.s actually gave better economy?
And what`s the reason to replace the Strombergs ? They were used in the old Mercedes 123 and some other cars.They usually worked for years without any trouble.All what they required was some easy maintanance.
Fuel return makes good difference in hot weather and traffic
I see Steve has a set of those sockets that fit a range of sizes. got mine at O'Reily's. they work
Nothing wrong with Strombergs, they usually just need new rubber diaphragms
Yep, I ran several TR6s over the years and ever had a moments trouble with Strombergs. If I wanted to rplace them though, I'd have used Webers.
C'mon Leon, you know that the 'government' here F'ed 'em up with their bloody sealed jets and temp. compensators. At least they never inflicted those damn Waxstats on us, eh?
True but the SU doesn't so that's one less thing to misbehave!
Damn, that thing drives like a real car unlike my TR4/A
Put a port in the intake manifold for engine vacuum. Very easy some of the earlier SU carbs had them as I remember. the float bowl vent also vents vapor from the carb for emissions. I messed with these carbs for years and always had good luck with them as long as the throttle shafts were not worn out or the butterfly worn out. The old Volvo mechanics used to mostly say the SUs worked better than the Webers and the Strombergs were just horrible junk. Lots of Harley owner would run one SU. When in good shape the SUs were the one to beat.
I had Strombergs on my '71 Volvo 145. Got tied of trying to balance them and installed Webers, made a huge difference. Strombergs were rubbish.
Quick comment. You should see a performance improvement, replacing worn Strombies with new SUs. But in 20 years you will get the same improvement replacing your now worn SUs with new Strombergs. A rebuild would have done the trick. These are pretty equivalent carbs, nothing wrong with either of ‘em.
I agree But SU Carb Better Quality Carb, Easier to Adjust Fuel Mixture, Don't have to Deal with Tears in Rubber Diaphragms Plus Looks more British with Skinner Union Carbs, Hell Rolls Royce was using SUs up till switch to Bosch Fuel Injection SU carbs look real nice Buff them out
I had two TR6's. A 71 and a 76. The 71 was a pos, but the 76 was a daily driver, color was pimento orange. Really cool car. I remember filling the dash pots on the Strombergs with 10w oil and cleaning the points every two weeks!
Never had a single problem with my Strombergs.
That's a beautiful little car - makes me proud to be British! What happened to British car industry? We should be making millions of quality British cars.
I must say that I had three Triumph sixes; a 2000 and two 2500s and never had any trouble with the Strombergs on any of them, but maybe I was just lucky...
Stunning car!
Weber 32/36 are nice also if you have some upgrades to engine ..
enjoyable content. lose the hideous music.
12:30 Steve, the adjustment procedure in this video goes a bit too fast for me. I seem to recall that you had another video where you demonstrate in detail how to adjust a dual carb system. Unfortunately am I not able to find that video. Can you please point me in the right direction: which video has this explanation? I am looking for a clear explanation on how to do the adjustment on the dual SU HS4 which are on my 1964 MGB.
Excellent video. But why not Weber or even better Dellorto?
This is not a german or italian car.
I agree that Dellorto DHLAs were even better than Weber DCOEs, sad that they are no longer made.
If you do a cam and headers on a TR6 (or a TVR with the same lump), 2" SU's are an excellent alternative to expensive and fiddly triple Webers, and are capable of nearly as much power on the street.
On the contrary, SUs are constantly going out of tune due to their moving parts, triple Webers produce more power, stay in tune, and have so much better throttle response it's like night and day. The only tricky part is the original jetting and emulsion tube selection, because few speed shops know how to do it.
My car came with 4 of the 40DCNF downdraft Webbers, the last year before they put in fuel injection. I never had a bit of trouble with them. I never used the choke. 2 pumps with the gas pedal and the engine fired right up.
If you are going to that expense why not upgrade to webber's or better yet install the Lucas injection system, remanufactured units are very reliable now.
agree, my TR6 went really well with the stock EFI system, which was dead reliable . The fuel pump, OTOH was a disaster.
It's an OK conversion, but the main problem with these engines is the intake manifold design, in particular the #6 cylinder tends to run lean.
Just turn it a little richer, problem solved
later HS6 carbs have built in concentric (is that the right term?) accelerator return springs and a ported vacuum for the dizzy advance.
I used HS6’s off a Volvo from a wreckers yard.
Good Choice SU Carbs plus Looks more British under the Hood. I found Adjusting Fuel Mixture a little more Richer Improves Idle Quality and Improves Higher RPM Power along with Advancing the Ignition Timing un till hear Engine Ping than Re-Tard a few Degrees until Engine Stops Pinging also Recommend NGK Spark Plugs and High Quality Spark Plug Wires universal set MSD or NGK, Check Adjust Valve Lash Cold a Slightly Loose Valve Lash is Better than too Tight Valve Lash which can Burn up your Valves and use Good Quality Brand Gas Experiment with lower Octane or Higher premium Octane see if there's a Difference on how Engine Runs that year Engine has Low Compression for Lower Emission and use Lower Octane Gas
Looks more British than another brand of British carb??
Those extended shafts will be a drama. An overhead hexagon linkage with a adjustable pull rods is far better, they never go out of adjustment.
You should not tee the engine breather into the cannister or it will stuff it up. Breather should go to the airfilter.
Those airfilters strain the rocks but not the dust. And ingest a lot of heat.Great for racing inside a cold air box but the factory filter will be far better for street and quieter also
TR7s only had carburettors in the USA.
Why did you get rid of the CD's? They're a good carb!
In the USA in '68 they were forced to fit solid plugs under the jets, rendering them unadjustable and thus untunable. You could adjust the idle mixture in a limited range, but for performance modifications they were pretty useless.
@@mescko They were blocked off on the bottom to keep the average Joe from messing with them but they are adjustable through the top with a special tool. I just put a pair of Jag CD's on another experimental aircraft engine for a customer & I supply the tool so they can fine adjust.
@@nzsaltflatsracer8054 They are adjustable but the range is pretty limited. And the biased needle design eventually wears an oblong hole in the jet then it will never tune properly. Early adjustable jet CD's are okay, but the SU will never need diaphragms replaced either. I guess I just view then as a lesser product. They were designed deliberately as a constant depression carburetor that got around all of the SU patents, and I think it shows.
@@mescko One of my earlier twin CD conversions has over 600 hrs on it now with no wear on the needle or jet & I open them up every time I do the Annual inspection for the owner. Selecting the correct needle for the application is important to get the jetting correct across the whole range & then a small adjustment might be needed depending on the DA of that day. I expected the CD with it's spring loaded needle to wear more than the SU but have seen no difference between them but the CD compensates for altitude changes in aircraft better than the SU.
I heard English models had fuel injection which produced much more horsepower. Do you know of a conversion kit?
I prefer the SU carburettors assembly of my Volvo P1800 S. Inverted assembly, the one on the right on the left and the one on the left on the right. Fewer hoses.....
Hey Steve - since your Jaguar XJ6 uses Stromberg 175 CDs just like the TR6 - do you think you'd consider switching those too? If so PLEASE make a video! Thanks! Tom
I beg to differ that I think there are work perfectly and flawlessly well when they're set up right and balanced and if you don't know how to do it then obviously don't need the carburetors on the car
Nice explanation of the change out. I don’t like the plumbing. Having to file parts down, run the fuel lines and have them sit on the wheel well, unable to reuse the original air cleaner, running lines into a no longer working charcoal canister and then potentially having fuel drip onto the ground is non professional. This change out is screaming for a better solution
very cool
No balancing of the carbs with an air flow meter?
I believe he does at around the 12:30 mark in the video
Are there any electronics with this car?
You think those carbs were a problem. I had a UK car with Lucas injection. Was a pain in the ass. I eventually wrote it off in a fire attempting to change the lucas fuel pump. The dripping fuel ignited.
How did you come to own more cars that Jay freaking Leno? Yeah, I'm jealous.
Dud you have to shove down and let us see the pro sasses
Why don’t you use fender covers.
They scratch the fenders.
Fender covers PLEASE
Annoying background music, otherwise good video.
I've heard worse, and really didn't notice it until your comment. At least there wasn't that generic dad heavy metal or fake Mumford and Sons in the background. That's the worst.
What fuel line brand are you using? I have a 79 spit6 that I am building and have heard great things about Gates Barricade lines being ethanol resistant, just curious if that was what you were using or if there was something else that you have found that works.
Do not run ethanol in your car, you are just asking for a lot of problems.
@@ThisWeekWithCars the problem isn't me wanting to run fuel without ethanol, it's finding stations that have ethanol free fuel. In PA most of the stations are usually at minimum 10% ethanol content and some are at 15%.
Why not Webers?
No fender cover
They always scratch the cars up, I use a film instead if I need to.
are SUs a better choice than Webers (setting aside the issue of $$)?
My opinion of Zenith-Strombergs, and I have been a mechanic for over 35 years and have been working on ZS and SU's for many of those years, is that ZS carbs are VERY good. Most folks bad mouthing them either have no idea what they are talking about or don't have proper knowledge for repairing them. They can wear out just like any other carb, and the flexible pieces can dry rot, etc. the same as any other carb. When repaired and tuned properly, ZS carbs are rock solid.
No hungrymon, they most definitely are not.
Nice job and great looking car.
It’s been a while since I stripped one but from memory can you not take the top off the float bowl and move it round to get the fuel inlet where you want it- think the 3 holes are equally spaced? I may be dreaming that though.
Also it looked from the final view that the fuel hose is resting on the inner wing with no clips. If so surely it risks wearing through with engine movement, or at least rubbing that lovely paint off?
Not saying there is anything wrong with the SU but you spent @ $1200 but don't provide any justification for the expense. I would have even accepted you like the shiny chrome. Realistically, I am not sure you could justify replacing to good working Stromburgs. If I HAD to buy new carbs I would consider but otherwise I can buy a lot of rebuild kits for $1200.
I have dyno'd enough TR6s including this one to know the Strombergs are not working as good as the SUs. The Strombergs even if working correctly won't be for long, the US spec emissions carbs are terrible things.
@@ThisWeekWithCars I am not disputing that it is a better carb. Just that the implication is this would be a good investment. I just think you would server your viewers better by explaining why. What is my return on investment? For instance people would no doubt consider $1200 bucks for a 5hp gain a good Investment. I would not. However, if I am getting a 25hp gain I may take another look. Yes, every car is different but some range of what improvement is to be expected would be beneficial.
Your video is appreciated. I am just pointing out that in the future you might be able to improve in a way that is helpful to those of us viewing.
There's nothing wrong with Strombergs, they just need servicing.
I was expecting to see Lucas fuel injection, maybe not exported to the USA, lucky USA....
The female jets on the Strombergs were fixed in place for Emission purposes. However, shops had tools for adjusting them just the same. I did all of my adjustments with an exhaust gas analyser, and such a machine when properly used, is a major tool in making an engine from this era run correctly. I would have repaired the Strombergs. To each his own.
Mechanically the SU carb is a much simpler, more reliable affair than the Zenith Stromberg. Great choice!
I went with the triple SU's from Weber DCOE 40's and could not be happier. Some pictures here www.roadsterdrivers.com/album/4
why? just why? the SUs give less power, have much worse throttle response, and never stay in tune!
SU possibly better than Stromberg, but still not great. The fact they are new should improve things. Any way you can fit the original airbox with 2 new holes? K&N are not great at filtering and it looks boy-racer :-( . My experience with SU/Stromberg: Austin 2200, numerous Mini, Rover 3500, Humber Sceptre, Austin Princess, Austin 1300, Triumph 2500, Triumph Herald 2000... Think that's it!
Twin side draft Webers, now you are talking! 45s Big enough unless you have lots of mods.
Yes K&N's are controversial. I'm a fan due to the much better breathing and I've never had an engine wear out prematurely due to poor filtration or had an issue with `snotty' MAF sensors. The increase in performance was most marked on an old naturally aspirated 1769 cc Citroen Diesel Visa 17RD I owned back in the day (not a very admired car admittedly but 55 UK MPG seemingly however you drove it).
Should have used Weber’s
I always liked Strombergs on my 2000 saloons. I always felt SU carbs were Leyland/MG castoffs, although I had a set in my late 2500 saloon. As I recall the SU's were anti tamper and had wax things (Waxstat?). I'm not such a snob these days! Great video, btw.
If it helps, think of SU as the company that provided carburettors for the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine.
The Stromberg was engineered by Standard-Triumph for the express purpose of getting around the patents on the SU carburettor. Hence the diaphragm.
jeepers that engine bay is looking pretty clean...
Can’t see what you’re doing. Needs to be zoomed *way* *way* closer.
Loss of fuel mileage and performance with old distributor. 10 degrees timing at idle with new dist. .
A little too fast, Steve.
Why not go straight to injectors!
This is totally unnecessary. Certainly, new SU's are better than Strombergs that need a rebuild. I'm running 3 Strombergs along with other modifications, in my TR6 and she sings. Rebuild the Strombergs and tune them, they are easy to tune, and are very reliable. Some will say SU's add horsepower, that's just not true. No offense, I like your videos.
before you know it your going to much bigger than wheeler dealer
I don't know what that annoying, pulsing noise in the background is supposed to be but this video is not watchable.
I would solve the Stromberg carb. problem by dropping in an LS with 600HP and a Tremmic 6 speed.
Bob Adams we cool as that would be, it kind of ruins the car, those British straight 6’s sound great
Sacrilege Bob! Wash your mouth out with soap asap please.
Hi do have an email address I could contact you with ?
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