I've been shaking for all my brew methods since I found it to so greatly improve my espresso, after the original videos from Lance. I love it for the workflow consistency, but I've also noticed that my somewhat infrequent stalled brews on my cone dripper or no bypass brewer have completely disappeared since shaking. Huge fan of the channel and the inquisitive/scientific approach Lance! Thank you for improving my daily cup :)
That's actually nice to know. What other brew methods have you used the shake method with? Electric drip? French press? I'd be curious to know. I tend to ebb and flood with brewing methods going from electric dripper one day, to espresso the next, and French press sprinkled in there real good. I have no pour over setup (yet) so I can't compare it if I attempt to remember doing this.
@@JimJimmington-e8i Outside espresso, I'm most often using a cone pour over similar to a V60, Next Level Pulsar, or the Sofi 72 from Aramse. I'm now shaking grounds for all my brewing as I've replaced the catch cup on my grinder with a shaker. I don't actually own an electric drip machine, so I've no idea how that would affect things...
@@michaelrossmaessler200 I am about to try this again today on drip. It's brewing now in fact. Ground with Ode Gen 2 w/SSP MP burrs. These burrs alone work magic on coffee so want to see if this shake can up the game some. Cheers!
I learned this technique from Paul McCartney back in '73 in the song Nineteen Hundred and Eighty-five, where he advised us to, "shake it, don't break it."
I have a commandante at home. After grinding I put the lid on the Container and shake 5 seconds. After that just some mild wdt to even out. My espresso (flair pro 2) has improved so much, exaxtly what you said. Smooth and more well rounded.
OMG!!!! 😮 thank you for this master class professor Hedrick. How crazy my life has changed this precise morning after shaking the coffee for my pour over. I just reached the perfect balanced cup. Nothing of bitterness comming from the fines and a perfect and delicious acidity. Once more a great video and class. ❤❤❤❤
Thank you Lance 🙏🏻I was able to replicate your results. Your recommendation massively simplified my workflow while yielded great results! You are the GOAT!
Mini heart-attack right when I saw the title, as I just ordered a lid for my blind shaker for my Key grinder. Happy to hear it's probably worth it in the long-term for bother spro and filter!
I actually tested this briefly after your first video and remember chatting with Jonathan Gagné about it. Just like in your testing the cups cleaned up, got rounder, more cohesive but I found they got a little bit more boring for lack of a better word. The depth and flavour separation seemed to reduce a tad. I shook for about the same time as you and quite vigorously so I'm wondering if there's a happy medium. Shake for less time or less vigorously to get the best of both worlds? Also wondering if it helps more when you use lesser burr sets (from a filter pov) as opposed to really good, high clarity ones. Great content as always, keep em' coming!
I did not notice lesser flavor separation at all. Mostly rounder acidity, less harsh highs, same complexity. Regardless of how unimodal the effect is there, which would make sense if aromatics based
@@LanceHedrick Interesting. Same here (Mostly rounder acidity, less harsh highs, same complexity) but I also found them to be a little less interesting. I tested with the 078 and the SSP MP 83. I'll try and test this again in a little more controlled manner. I also just put the LS burrs in the DF64 gen 2 so I'll try and test that too.
I’ve been shaking espresso grounds for about a decade, using a small glass cup. I did it as a means to reduce clumps way before RDT, WDT, etc. Rather than a hard shake, I’ve always done more of a fluff, like chef sauté technique. I stuck with it all of these years, because the espresso flow was more consistent than with anything else I tried. When WDT came into vogue, I tried it for a month or more, but it wasn’t as consistent and seemed to drop the fines to the bottom of the basket. Gentle shaking seems to homogenize the grounds. After the previous video, I tried the Weber Blind Shaker, but frankly, the glass cup workflow is better. It’s one piece, rather than three, it’s not blind, so I can see if clumps formed, and clean up is simpler. A small, rounded, shallow, glass cup for the win! I don’t do pour overs, but the results are interesting. I roast my own (Kaffelogic), and find that I don’t need to rest coffee long at all to enjoy it. Maybe shaking has been the key to drinking fresher roasts. BTW, with a cup (Pyrex 464) and the fluf/sauté method, I just cup my had over it as a precaution, but I don’t shake the grounds up to my hand, so no lid is needed. I use a funnel around the basket, as does Lance, and I pour it towards the center, like the blind shaker does. It takes a bit of skill, but it’s pretty easy to learn.
I had commented on another video about how approaching the topic in a more scientific way could have have added some credibility. Well gotta props for this one because it definitely feels pretty rigorous, and the results speak for themselves: different coffees, tasters, grinders.. but somehow the pattern holds. 👍Looks like I will be adding the extra 30s to my workflow.
Good Morning Lance. Hope you are great! This is so interesting. I always enjoy my brews better after sieving with Kruve. I only remove the fines lower than 500μm. But as I understand now, that is potentially because of not only removing the very fines, but also the shaking that happens in the Kruve. Fascinating.
Data *and* a serenade, what a great way to start the week! Sounds like I should try adding some shaking to my basic (lagom-mini + aeropress) process and see if I perceive anything myself...
Cool to see what seems like a easy trick to improve your cup. I've usually done this (usually for like 4 seconds though) as it always felt right, like clicking tongs twice when you pick them up.
I've been waiting on this video! Before I watch it, I'm just going to say that I've been experimentating with it on a sensory level, and I can say that there is a VERY noticeable difference in taste across a variety of origins and processes, but all on the lighter side. What I consistently notice is that there is a muting of acidity when I shake the grounds using your brewing method. I can grind courser to bring out some of that acidity, but then it starts to taste under extracted, so I don't think it's extracting more. I've heard a theory that it is promoting fines to statically stick to the larger pieces, but I don't have any evidence to support this. I have decided that I generally prefer not shaking because I prefer the acidity, but that depends on the coffee and preferences, of course. Edit: I've used an Ode 2 with SSP MP and my 1Zpresso X-pro
I use a hand grinder (Kingrinder K2) and the only reason I shake it afterwards is that it helps to knock most of the grounds that are stuck due to static. Makes it easier to brush it off later
I think alot (not all) of those are fines and you want them to stay there- they're less heavy particles as heavier ones would fall off into the chamber. I like to dose higher pre-grind and weigh after to get correct weight
I did blind taste tests on pour overs. Changed water temp, grinder, roast level- using a sieve made a bigger difference than the grinder and most other things
I work with powdes as ingredients in other food/nutritional products and particle size, density and distribution all effect flavor, mouth feel ect in my products as well. One possible test thet could be interesting is just plain solubility. A more homogeneous powder, even with larger PS, can be more soluble even at room temp. More solube should be more coffee going into solution, ie higher extraction, more balance flavor. Run a solubility test at room temp and see if thst changed things
I guess I'm going to start shaking my coffee now, thanks Lance! lol I really do like this content though just finding ways to make a cup even just a little better is always fun, at least for me.
I went from a commercial 2 group machine, a commercial grinder, and $4k of water treatment... to a little strainer and that Q2 hand grinder. I don't get to have espresso drinks any more, but I am freeeeeeee....
Always loved what you do Lance! I would have thought that if shaking produces a difference then you want the finer grinds at the bottom of the filter, just as you've described, I think, for espresso.
I've been shaking simply due to the fact that I enjoy the workflow more than WDT. I don't need anything besides a portafilter and a shaker. Grind into the cup, shake, drop it in the portafilter, give it a little swirl, tamp and done. The entire process for me is quicker and simply more enjoyable. I don't really care any which way if it increases my extractions or not.
I shake my pour-over grinds all the time; it does a great job of eliminating static from the chaff. I don't have a shaker tool. I just use my niche dosing cup
I started thinking about this last week, and begun doing a quick shake in my Ode catch cup. I noticed a lot of the fines would stick to the bottom and just figured it'd be better to incorporate everything a little bit better. Didn't do any side by side tasting results or even gave it much thought, but your results makes a lot of sense Lance!
Did this years ago and preferred shaken over unshaken. Shaking results in less harsh taste. But sifting wins over shaking, reducing fines by slow feeding and shifting is even better. Ideally even reduce brittleness of the beans before grinding (but that's off topic) then slow feed and sift - welcome to rabbits hole of coffee 😊.
I recently purchased a tumbler shaker. When I use it for manual espresso I sometimes get a tastier beverage in comparison to WDT, but not usually. When brewing pourover, I don't get a level bed using the shaker, but just like with espresso it can be tastier. I am consistent with number of shakes. I use the Pietro grinder, so when I use the tumbler shaker it requires one extra step, which I dislike with my workflow. Overall, for me personally, shaking is not worth it. I am not discouraging others from trying it, but the shaker is not the best tool for me.
Fun fact, the only time I don't shake for espresso is with darker (closer to commercial) roasts. My Barratza ESP goes pretty fine, but with slow feeding and shaking, there's so little resistance that even at the lowest setting, it gives me 40g in like 12-15 seconds. I had to go back to just tossing the whole dose into the grinder and then just doing WDT. I guess my grinder could use a shim but I don't think it'd be enough of a difference. Slow feeding and shaking has made me go much finer on my lighter roasts as well, but I can at least stay a few clicks above the min. With that said, I've been shaking all of my pourovers since the video just for the sake of homogenization. I figured the densification wouldn't be super relevant because WDT would basically reverse the effects in your espresso testing, and the water is redistributing the grounds in a similar way.
I needed this cause I roast with a sample roaster and I lack discipline lol. This last cup was good but not fully degassed yet so I can shake it up with my knockoff shaker next time and see if it gets rid of that.
Moka Pot! After watching the expresso shaker videos I thought "why not?" and started 1) using a shaker 2) putting the funnel on a vibrating table when putting the coffee in - this vibration compacted the coffee so I could increase the amount without actually "packing". It's freaking amazing! SOOO much better that I was getting before.
was just about to be fully happy as you were going with the hand gridner :( , we need to know if we need to shake the hand gridner or not, as I think we are already shaking the grinds as we are rotating and moving the gridner itself ,, please HELP
If you take two pipettes and extract from shaken and unshaken, then maintaining the column structure when removing the grinds, not mixing, and viewing under a microscope, would you not be able to distinguish particle size by position in the column, for a comparison?
Have tried to shake now three days in a row for filter. From visual inspection it did not look like the grounds homoginised but the fine settled in the bottom of the dosing cup I was using. It caused granular convection. I assume a blind shaker might cause a different result because it has a column in the middle.
Wouldn’t it still be interesting to check the same thing on a very filter-focused setup like EK43 with brew burrs? Just to try to understand if it’s a fines/boulders interaction, or something else?
Hey Lance, just a suggestion but the Decent can do pourover. That might be a way for you to do pourover testing in a more controlled way by eliminating the variation from your pouring. If you’re happy with how it does it that is
Fascinating. I use a commadante, I wonder if there is sufficient head space in the jar for a proper shake with a 35g dose. That may be another variable, the amount of space to get a shake, and whether you have to invert the jar vs put the pin.
Here's a stupid take: I shake with my hand as the lid and discard the fines that get stick to it and the walls of the dosing cup. It's a tiny bit of lost coffee but in (albeit very unscientific) testing it had a positive effect, especially since my grinder produces quite a bit of fines. This was especially helpful in very light roasts where I had to go way finer than my usual for pour over
I wonder if the difference relates to static. I have a decaf rn that has crazy static cling when I pour the grounds out of my 1zpresso jmax. But if I give it some good shaking before pouring out the grounds, no static cling at all…
I just got my cheep shaker last month and have been using it since. The workflow is just so much better. I would probably choose to shake even if there is no difference on the taste.
I wonder if it's just the material of my shaker, or just my atmospherics in my climate, but whenever I shake, I get so many grinds stuck to the sides of the shaker, like it's building static. I use a DF64 gen2 with no static issues otherwise.. only when shaking. Shots are terrible shaken compared to unshaken so I wonder what's happening here. Maybe I'll try again when the climate shifts to autumn and see if there's any difference. I'm definitely looking for a way to get rid of some of the poor aromatics from my fresh lights i'm roasting.. gassy/grassy notes.. usually have to wait weeks for clear out (I think it's CO2 in the beans outgassing)
Interesting video, this is something that I hoped you would test after the blind shaker video! I wonder whether the time after grinding itself can be a factor on why you would prefer shaken vs unshaken? Was the unshaken dose brewed straight after grinding or was there an equal amount of time between grinding and brewing between the conditions? I ask because you describe some of the improved sensory qualities as something that could be related to a fresh'ish roast, where waiting between grinding and brewing (with or without shaking) could improve the cup.
This is related to the espresso videos And maybe an incredibly stupid question but I’m gonna ask it anyway. How do you avoid the Portefilter getting too hot when you’re pulling shuts back to back? Not talking anything about flavor but it seems like you’re handling it pretty directly when prepping. I’m nearly blind so I would like to use the superpower of feeling things I have. Only problems is I tend to burn myself every time I get anywhere near my portefilter with my bare hands after pulling a shot. Any tips?
I assume that after grinding the beans with my 1ZPresso grinder, I can just shake the whole grinder while the catch cup is still attached to it. I don't need extra shaking tools. Right?
Another very interesting video. I'm still tempted to try a shaker but do you think I would notice a difference if I'm making a 6oz milk drink? I'm using a Lagom 01 with 98mm mizen burrs.
Lance, awesome video, as always. Two questions: 1) how fresh was the coffee you used? (do you think any of the harsh notes for unshaken could be mitigated by resting, for example, if the coffee was 1-2 weeks off roast) and 2) do you think the the metal post in the shaking cup is helping with agitation at all or would a jar really be the same? Thanks! And say hi to Hugo for me :)
Are you under the impression that a day of roast sample is the ultimate? He describes gassy notes of the unshaken and had a Barista Champion with him I think the Coffee was in top condition.
@@DNGR369 ....No? The opposite? Specifically asked if the off-notes could be mitigated by resting. Also not sure why you think I'm calling into question the quality of the beans. All beans need resting.
i've been shaking it for a while, just using the timemore 078 cup and covering it with my hand. the odd thing I found was that i didn't really get fines on my hand, and they didn't seem to cling to the other grounds, instead they'd collect around the edge i was shaking towards, in a little half ring, and i could just pour the coffee out the other side, and then wipe the fines off the rim. i change coffees daily nearly, and i'm probably too inconsistent of a pourer to really tell if it's making a difference though.
😂 "Thank you very much, if you enjoy what you like, please like and subscribe" ok, first off, I did and I do. and B, if I don't enjoy what I like, does that make me a serial killer??? I'm liking and subscribing to find out!
It tested shaking the grounds with Naughty Dog's Unicorn Blend batch 10* . It has a smoother mouthfeel (than without shaking) for sure but I loose some of the flavor separation. *brewed on a orea v4 with abacca+ conic filters - 15g/250ml, 50°C 2min bloom, 1 continuous and steady circular pour with a melodrip until 175g then switch to a very gentle and steady center pour to finish (this final step seems to make up for the "homogenizing effect" of the melodrip, the latter being very good for consistency but "blurs" some of the more subtle flavors)
I've been shaking in my aeropress before brewing. Not only does it have the theoretical advantage of "densification," but the rubber gasket grabs a significant portion of the fines during the process.
If you shake it more than 3 times. It is considered playing with it.
...and there is nothing wrong with that. Just a little self soothing to take the edge off.
Lance's comments section is never ending entertainment.
Take about 20% off there, big shoots
Isn’t that a song from Good Charlotte?
I've been shaking for all my brew methods since I found it to so greatly improve my espresso, after the original videos from Lance. I love it for the workflow consistency, but I've also noticed that my somewhat infrequent stalled brews on my cone dripper or no bypass brewer have completely disappeared since shaking.
Huge fan of the channel and the inquisitive/scientific approach Lance! Thank you for improving my daily cup :)
That's actually nice to know. What other brew methods have you used the shake method with?
Electric drip?
French press?
I'd be curious to know. I tend to ebb and flood with brewing methods going from electric dripper one day, to espresso the next, and French press sprinkled in there real good. I have no pour over setup (yet) so I can't compare it if I attempt to remember doing this.
@@JimJimmington-e8i Outside espresso, I'm most often using a cone pour over similar to a V60, Next Level Pulsar, or the Sofi 72 from Aramse. I'm now shaking grounds for all my brewing as I've replaced the catch cup on my grinder with a shaker. I don't actually own an electric drip machine, so I've no idea how that would affect things...
same experience here!
I also shake for drip brewing makes a more consistent brew
@@michaelrossmaessler200 I am about to try this again today on drip. It's brewing now in fact.
Ground with Ode Gen 2 w/SSP MP burrs. These burrs alone work magic on coffee so want to see if this shake can up the game some.
Cheers!
I learned this technique from Paul McCartney back in '73 in the song Nineteen Hundred and Eighty-five, where he advised us to, "shake it, don't break it."
Sir Paul knows his coffee. That's the truth.
Lance has returned, yes.
Controversy, When he speaks.
Lance, The Coffee King.
Haiku for the win
I'm indebted to your art
Forever shaking
@@LanceHedrick beautiful 😅
I have been shaking since last time you published the result. It helps a lot in smoothing the taste and rounding the edge.
Exactly my findings with filter
same - i did my own test with like 20 espressos... defo the shaker works
same, i dropped the WDT immediately when i saw the first results and I have noticed a clear difference in quality outcome
I have a commandante at home. After grinding I put the lid on the Container and shake 5 seconds. After that just some mild wdt to even out. My espresso (flair pro 2) has improved so much, exaxtly what you said. Smooth and more well rounded.
"I was counting the revolutions" ... that is dedication 😂
OMG!!!! 😮 thank you for this master class professor Hedrick. How crazy my life has changed this precise morning after shaking the coffee for my pour over. I just reached the perfect balanced cup. Nothing of bitterness comming from the fines and a perfect and delicious acidity. Once more a great video and class. ❤❤❤❤
Thank you Lance 🙏🏻I was able to replicate your results. Your recommendation massively simplified my workflow while yielded great results! You are the GOAT!
Mini heart-attack right when I saw the title, as I just ordered a lid for my blind shaker for my Key grinder. Happy to hear it's probably worth it in the long-term for bother spro and filter!
The ppl with $10k setups on r/espresso are about to once again let you live in their heads rent free
Perhaps you can let them know how to charge rent?
This is why I love Reddit. It does the world a tremendous favor by showcasing who not to listen to.
Kidna sounds like they're living in your head tbh...
@shaheerrahman4278 - You know that's a fact. You can learn a lot in r/espresso but man, the elitists in there are plentiful and pedantic.
go drink your green tea
I was skeptical about this hut just tried it, and the cup was very enjoyable. Just in a 4oz mason jar with a lid, 50 shakes. Will be doing this again.
I actually tested this briefly after your first video and remember chatting with Jonathan Gagné about it. Just like in your testing the cups cleaned up, got rounder, more cohesive but I found they got a little bit more boring for lack of a better word. The depth and flavour separation seemed to reduce a tad. I shook for about the same time as you and quite vigorously so I'm wondering if there's a happy medium. Shake for less time or less vigorously to get the best of both worlds? Also wondering if it helps more when you use lesser burr sets (from a filter pov) as opposed to really good, high clarity ones. Great content as always, keep em' coming!
I did not notice lesser flavor separation at all. Mostly rounder acidity, less harsh highs, same complexity. Regardless of how unimodal the effect is there, which would make sense if aromatics based
@@LanceHedrick Interesting. Same here (Mostly rounder acidity, less harsh highs, same complexity) but I also found them to be a little less interesting. I tested with the 078 and the SSP MP 83. I'll try and test this again in a little more controlled manner. I also just put the LS burrs in the DF64 gen 2 so I'll try and test that too.
Eh not less exciting to me. i have been shaking actually a while for filter. Just never felt like gathering data in a controlled manner til now lol
I think you can try your Aramse Wiggle © on the shaker. Might be the happy medium you're looking for
I’ve been shaking espresso grounds for about a decade, using a small glass cup. I did it as a means to reduce clumps way before RDT, WDT, etc. Rather than a hard shake, I’ve always done more of a fluff, like chef sauté technique. I stuck with it all of these years, because the espresso flow was more consistent than with anything else I tried. When WDT came into vogue, I tried it for a month or more, but it wasn’t as consistent and seemed to drop the fines to the bottom of the basket. Gentle shaking seems to homogenize the grounds.
After the previous video, I tried the Weber Blind Shaker, but frankly, the glass cup workflow is better. It’s one piece, rather than three, it’s not blind, so I can see if clumps formed, and clean up is simpler. A small, rounded, shallow, glass cup for the win!
I don’t do pour overs, but the results are interesting. I roast my own (Kaffelogic), and find that I don’t need to rest coffee long at all to enjoy it. Maybe shaking has been the key to drinking fresher roasts.
BTW, with a cup (Pyrex 464) and the fluf/sauté method, I just cup my had over it as a precaution, but I don’t shake the grounds up to my hand, so no lid is needed. I use a funnel around the basket, as does Lance, and I pour it towards the center, like the blind shaker does. It takes a bit of skill, but it’s pretty easy to learn.
I had commented on another video about how approaching the topic in a more scientific way could have have added some credibility. Well gotta props for this one because it definitely feels pretty rigorous, and the results speak for themselves: different coffees, tasters, grinders.. but somehow the pattern holds. 👍Looks like I will be adding the extra 30s to my workflow.
I’m all in on Lance singing at the end ❤
Lance - the new James Bond of coffee; “shaken, not stirred”
I really hope he orders it this way the next time he’s in a cafe. 😂
I want to see the look on the barista's face. Followed by Lance deftly jumping over the counter and showing them how it's done.
Good Morning Lance. Hope you are great! This is so interesting. I always enjoy my brews better after sieving with Kruve. I only remove the fines lower than 500μm. But as I understand now, that is potentially because of not only removing the very fines, but also the shaking that happens in the Kruve. Fascinating.
I shake all of my coffee grounds and I came in as an extreme skeptic. It's just really easy to do and adds to the experience notably.
Thank you for finally tasting the shaken vs not and for doing this with a pour over. You’ve changed how I brew coffee.
Awesome video format and analysis!
Gonna try this at home
Wake up babe, Lance is shaking sh!t up again!
Shaking, yes.
Data *and* a serenade, what a great way to start the week! Sounds like I should try adding some shaking to my basic (lagom-mini + aeropress) process and see if I perceive anything myself...
I was not expecting the song number. Damn Lance, you got some pipes!
We are fans of shaking. We love it so much we decided to launch our own version of the best shaker out there.
Very cool! Inspired by these tests, may I be so bold to ask?
Cool to see what seems like a easy trick to improve your cup. I've usually done this (usually for like 4 seconds though) as it always felt right, like clicking tongs twice when you pick them up.
I have shaken the grounds in my Wilfa Uniform collection bin for a number of weeks now. I’ve noticed a reasonably big improvement in the cup.
I've been waiting on this video! Before I watch it, I'm just going to say that I've been experimentating with it on a sensory level, and I can say that there is a VERY noticeable difference in taste across a variety of origins and processes, but all on the lighter side. What I consistently notice is that there is a muting of acidity when I shake the grounds using your brewing method. I can grind courser to bring out some of that acidity, but then it starts to taste under extracted, so I don't think it's extracting more. I've heard a theory that it is promoting fines to statically stick to the larger pieces, but I don't have any evidence to support this. I have decided that I generally prefer not shaking because I prefer the acidity, but that depends on the coffee and preferences, of course.
Edit: I've used an Ode 2 with SSP MP and my 1Zpresso X-pro
I use a hand grinder (Kingrinder K2) and the only reason I shake it afterwards is that it helps to knock most of the grounds that are stuck due to static. Makes it easier to brush it off later
I think alot (not all) of those are fines and you want them to stay there- they're less heavy particles as heavier ones would fall off into the chamber. I like to dose higher pre-grind and weigh after to get correct weight
I find that makes grounds stick to the grind adjustment dial (I also have a K2).
That's a good point. I'll set up a comparison test to see if there's any difference (or if I can notice it)
For me they stick either way, but less if I give it a shake. However, I don't use any water droplet/spray technique
Very exciting stuff. I can't wait to try this myself when I make my next cup.
Awesome singing voice! Something tells me you have a background in that and didn’t just discover it one day ;) Love your channel too!
I did blind taste tests on pour overs. Changed water temp, grinder, roast level- using a sieve made a bigger difference than the grinder and most other things
Very, very nice to watch. And very convincing to start shaking😊.
I work with powdes as ingredients in other food/nutritional products and particle size, density and distribution all effect flavor, mouth feel ect in my products as well. One possible test thet could be interesting is just plain solubility. A more homogeneous powder, even with larger PS, can be more soluble even at room temp.
More solube should be more coffee going into solution, ie higher extraction, more balance flavor.
Run a solubility test at room temp and see if thst changed things
I guess I'm going to start shaking my coffee now, thanks Lance! lol
I really do like this content though just finding ways to make a cup even just a little better is always fun, at least for me.
how dare you.
Do you recommend a blind shaker like one you use or is shaking in a normal dosing funnel good enough for pour over?
Oooh. I’m guessing this one won’t cause a BH response unless their distribution tool is for filter too. 🍿
Shots fired!!!
@@LanceHedrick 😂👌😂
@@LanceHedrick Shots pulled?
@@DJProPlusMax even better
@@LanceHedrick if someone does that compare, the apt title would be “A mover and a shaker.”
This is very nerdy. Watched it anyway.
The only way we do it hereeee
This is very nerdy. Watched it because.
I went from a commercial 2 group machine, a commercial grinder, and $4k of water treatment... to a little strainer and that Q2 hand grinder. I don't get to have espresso drinks any more, but I am freeeeeeee....
Oof.
Always loved what you do Lance! I would have thought that if shaking produces a difference then you want the finer grinds at the bottom of the filter, just as you've described, I think, for espresso.
I am only here for the singing :D :D No, really - after WAC Lisbon, Lance's singing and voice is my new favorite thing : ))
Poetic & operatic - That‘s style 😊
Today is Sunday. A day of rest. Yet you incite violence with more shaker content! Thank you.
I've been shaking simply due to the fact that I enjoy the workflow more than WDT. I don't need anything besides a portafilter and a shaker.
Grind into the cup, shake, drop it in the portafilter, give it a little swirl, tamp and done. The entire process for me is quicker and simply more enjoyable.
I don't really care any which way if it increases my extractions or not.
I shake my pour-over grinds all the time; it does a great job of eliminating static from the chaff. I don't have a shaker tool. I just use my niche dosing cup
I started thinking about this last week, and begun doing a quick shake in my Ode catch cup. I noticed a lot of the fines would stick to the bottom and just figured it'd be better to incorporate everything a little bit better. Didn't do any side by side tasting results or even gave it much thought, but your results makes a lot of sense Lance!
Misophonia havers appreciate you immensely! I've been screaming for warnings on several other youtube creators' videos with no success at all
You staring down the barrel while shaking it vigorously certainly had a measurable effect on me
Lance always with the knowledge, thanks boss
Did this years ago and preferred shaken over unshaken. Shaking results in less harsh taste.
But sifting wins over shaking, reducing fines by slow feeding and shifting is even better. Ideally even reduce brittleness of the beans before grinding (but that's off topic) then slow feed and sift - welcome to rabbits hole of coffee 😊.
Love you, Uncle Lance! Thank you for the science! :)
Shake it up, shake it up! 🎶
Preconceptions gonna break, break, break, break, break... 🎶🎵🎶
Haha busted :) this is probably the first video I actually did not watch because I forgot my headphones lolz 😅 Thx Lance
I recently purchased a tumbler shaker. When I use it for manual espresso I sometimes get a tastier beverage in comparison to WDT, but not usually. When brewing pourover, I don't get a level bed using the shaker, but just like with espresso it can be tastier. I am consistent with number of shakes. I use the Pietro grinder, so when I use the tumbler shaker it requires one extra step, which I dislike with my workflow. Overall, for me personally, shaking is not worth it. I am not discouraging others from trying it, but the shaker is not the best tool for me.
one question may be interested to you is, adding one scenario to shake it in the regular container, not the shaker, and compare the 3.
This is amazing! Who'd a thunkit? Thanks for doing the testing--a lot of work for sure.
4:27 serious 1950's vibe here! Look at that glassware, look at those cones!! 😄😄
I never thought that with a little mason jar I can make my brews so much more consistent
Fun fact, the only time I don't shake for espresso is with darker (closer to commercial) roasts. My Barratza ESP goes pretty fine, but with slow feeding and shaking, there's so little resistance that even at the lowest setting, it gives me 40g in like 12-15 seconds. I had to go back to just tossing the whole dose into the grinder and then just doing WDT. I guess my grinder could use a shim but I don't think it'd be enough of a difference. Slow feeding and shaking has made me go much finer on my lighter roasts as well, but I can at least stay a few clicks above the min.
With that said, I've been shaking all of my pourovers since the video just for the sake of homogenization. I figured the densification wouldn't be super relevant because WDT would basically reverse the effects in your espresso testing, and the water is redistributing the grounds in a similar way.
Brilliant content, thanks Lance
I needed this cause I roast with a sample roaster and I lack discipline lol. This last cup was good but not fully degassed yet so I can shake it up with my knockoff shaker next time and see if it gets rid of that.
I just flip the niche cup on my portafilter and shake to distribute it. I’d never buy a dedicated shaker, just use what you got.
Do that over a white piece of paper and you'll see tons of fines come through, meaning there's a good chance it clogs the holes on your basket
Any sugestions for how to do this with a fellow Ode Gen 2 Catch Cup? Any lids that happen to fit nicely on it perhaps?
Will I get the same effect if I shake in my hand grinder? Or do I need to move the grounds to another container? Thanks.
Moka Pot! After watching the expresso shaker videos I thought "why not?" and started 1) using a shaker 2) putting the funnel on a vibrating table when putting the coffee in - this vibration compacted the coffee so I could increase the amount without actually "packing". It's freaking amazing! SOOO much better that I was getting before.
You've already lost if you put good Coffee in a Moka Pot. They belong out the window
was just about to be fully happy as you were going with the hand gridner :( , we need to know if we need to shake the hand gridner or not, as I think we are already shaking the grinds as we are rotating and moving the gridner itself ,, please HELP
I did do 5 with handgrinder. I stated results, also.
Can you test WDT or No WDT for Pourovers ?
If you take two pipettes and extract from shaken and unshaken, then maintaining the column structure when removing the grinds, not mixing, and viewing under a microscope, would you not be able to distinguish particle size by position in the column, for a comparison?
Question: Might the difference in taste be due to oxidation? Then could one also let the ground coffee sit in the basket for a while?
That's perhaps one of a few plausible reasons, of course. There is likely benefit to actually homogenizng the grounds, though
With hand grinders is there any reason to not just shake it in the catch-cup (before removing it from the grinder)?
It makes a mess. Other than that I can't think of any.
@@georgielol Why would it make? It is a closed chamber, even without the risk of the lid falling off.
At least on my Kingrinder K2, grounds tend to stick to the grind adjustment dial (horribly if I may add).
Have tried to shake now three days in a row for filter. From visual inspection it did not look like the grounds homoginised but the fine settled in the bottom of the dosing cup I was using. It caused granular convection. I assume a blind shaker might cause a different result because it has a column in the middle.
What about hopper grinders? Would the pressure the beans in the hopper exert on the beans going into the grinder have any effect on grind quality?
I’ve stirred my grounds for years since I read a weird I think German paper that theorized that fines clump to bigger particles.
I assume the same benefits would occur with WDT as shaking? Aren't both doing essentially the same thing within the grounds?
Wouldn’t it still be interesting to check the same thing on a very filter-focused setup like EK43 with brew burrs? Just to try to understand if it’s a fines/boulders interaction, or something else?
Hey Lance, just a suggestion but the Decent can do pourover. That might be a way for you to do pourover testing in a more controlled way by eliminating the variation from your pouring. If you’re happy with how it does it that is
Fascinating. I use a commadante, I wonder if there is sufficient head space in the jar for a proper shake with a 35g dose. That may be another variable, the amount of space to get a shake, and whether you have to invert the jar vs put the pin.
Works every time with my 15g dose
I use a shake sifter to remove fines under 250μm. Is this shaking doing double duty, or is it beneficial to use a blind shaker after sifting? 🤔
Think I'll give this a whirl on the weekend!
Great video.shaking has improved my Espresso quite a bit. Do the ditting burrs fit the df 64 without modification?
Here's a stupid take: I shake with my hand as the lid and discard the fines that get stick to it and the walls of the dosing cup. It's a tiny bit of lost coffee but in (albeit very unscientific) testing it had a positive effect, especially since my grinder produces quite a bit of fines. This was especially helpful in very light roasts where I had to go way finer than my usual for pour over
I wonder if the difference relates to static. I have a decaf rn that has crazy static cling when I pour the grounds out of my 1zpresso jmax. But if I give it some good shaking before pouring out the grounds, no static cling at all…
I just got my cheep shaker last month and have been using it since. The workflow is just so much better. I would probably choose to shake even if there is no difference on the taste.
I wonder if it's just the material of my shaker, or just my atmospherics in my climate, but whenever I shake, I get so many grinds stuck to the sides of the shaker, like it's building static. I use a DF64 gen2 with no static issues otherwise.. only when shaking. Shots are terrible shaken compared to unshaken so I wonder what's happening here.
Maybe I'll try again when the climate shifts to autumn and see if there's any difference. I'm definitely looking for a way to get rid of some of the poor aromatics from my fresh lights i'm roasting.. gassy/grassy notes.. usually have to wait weeks for clear out (I think it's CO2 in the beans outgassing)
Interesting video, this is something that I hoped you would test after the blind shaker video! I wonder whether the time after grinding itself can be a factor on why you would prefer shaken vs unshaken? Was the unshaken dose brewed straight after grinding or was there an equal amount of time between grinding and brewing between the conditions? I ask because you describe some of the improved sensory qualities as something that could be related to a fresh'ish roast, where waiting between grinding and brewing (with or without shaking) could improve the cup.
Same time between grind and brew.
@@LanceHedrick Cool, that makes sense! Need to try this tomorrow
This is related to the espresso videos
And maybe an incredibly stupid question but I’m gonna ask it anyway.
How do you avoid the Portefilter getting too hot when you’re pulling shuts back to back?
Not talking anything about flavor but it seems like you’re handling it pretty directly when prepping.
I’m nearly blind so I would like to use the superpower of feeling things I have.
Only problems is I tend to burn myself every time I get anywhere near my portefilter with my bare hands after pulling a shot.
Any tips?
keep being you amigo! 😂😂❤❤
I assume that after grinding the beans with my 1ZPresso grinder, I can just shake the whole grinder while the catch cup is still attached to it. I don't need extra shaking tools. Right?
It’s a combination of shaking them in a container and then all of the grounds free falling down.
I never knew I needed to see Lance in hot pink shorts singing Josh Groban, but, here we are.
What brand is that wonderfully smokey carafe?
My coffee massively sticks on the inside of the silver Weber shakers. Are the black ones that much better in avoiding sticking?
How much RDT are you doing? I feel like if I don’t spray my beans enough it sticks more.
@@rdmrred none, I turned off my plasma generator and left out RDT for shaking, so that I can save some steps.
@@gro967Just for science, try doing one with some RDT. If that doesn’t change, there must be something else causing static.
Interesting video. My son pointed out that you misspelled 'yield' in the results as 'yeld'. Thank you for the info.
Another very interesting video. I'm still tempted to try a shaker but do you think I would notice a difference if I'm making a 6oz milk drink? I'm using a Lagom 01 with 98mm mizen burrs.
this experiment (something super close to it) is literally the foundation of modern statistics. it's called the 'lady tasting tea' experiment
Lance, awesome video, as always. Two questions: 1) how fresh was the coffee you used? (do you think any of the harsh notes for unshaken could be mitigated by resting, for example, if the coffee was 1-2 weeks off roast) and 2) do you think the the metal post in the shaking cup is helping with agitation at all or would a jar really be the same? Thanks! And say hi to Hugo for me :)
Are you under the impression that a day of roast sample is the ultimate? He describes gassy notes of the unshaken and had a Barista Champion with him I think the Coffee was in top condition.
@@DNGR369 ....No? The opposite? Specifically asked if the off-notes could be mitigated by resting. Also not sure why you think I'm calling into question the quality of the beans. All beans need resting.
Wouldn't shaking a powder in a regular cup lead to seggregation, with the fines going to the bottom and the boulders coming to the top?
i've been shaking it for a while, just using the timemore 078 cup and covering it with my hand. the odd thing I found was that i didn't really get fines on my hand, and they didn't seem to cling to the other grounds, instead they'd collect around the edge i was shaking towards, in a little half ring, and i could just pour the coffee out the other side, and then wipe the fines off the rim.
i change coffees daily nearly, and i'm probably too inconsistent of a pourer to really tell if it's making a difference though.
😂 "Thank you very much, if you enjoy what you like, please like and subscribe" ok, first off, I did and I do.
and B, if I don't enjoy what I like, does that make me a serial killer??? I'm liking and subscribing to find out!
It tested shaking the grounds with Naughty Dog's Unicorn Blend batch 10* . It has a smoother mouthfeel (than without shaking) for sure but I loose some of the flavor separation.
*brewed on a orea v4 with abacca+ conic filters - 15g/250ml, 50°C 2min bloom, 1 continuous and steady circular pour with a melodrip until 175g then switch to a very gentle and steady center pour to finish (this final step seems to make up for the "homogenizing effect" of the melodrip, the latter being very good for consistency but "blurs" some of the more subtle flavors)
I've been shaking in my aeropress before brewing. Not only does it have the theoretical advantage of "densification," but the rubber gasket grabs a significant portion of the fines during the process.
You put the grounds in first? I couldn't do that