EPSON Hello, how you doing? Hope you doing fine. I m fine. So I got my EPSON 12000. The Sony makes a Super HDR, no question! I informed myself in detail in advance, and initially wanted the Sony 5000ES. SDR, BT 709, HD material are both good. The EPSON's 120 Hz and HDMI 2.1 are better for gamers. The details are better in native 4K. But scenes or detailed pictures of skyscraper windows are rare. If you look often during the day or in a bright room, the EPSON is better because it is brighter. Contrast, and Ansi Contrast, the EPSON is the better one. The Sony has the better black level and the picture is better than BT2020 4K material and in the black dark home cinema. With a cheap Calman calibration, you can do it yourself, you get the green cast out of the EPSON, and you have almost the full DCI color space. The EPSON then loses some brightness, but is still bright enough. The EPSON is quiet. Fully automatic lens from Japan both have, whereas the Sony manual, but set once... laser light source. In the case of the Sony predecessors, a loss of contrast was noticed in the devices over time. EPSON has had positive experience with laser projectors for decades. These reasons make me choose the EPSON. Both high end products. Better than cinema thanks for the video Nice day
Maybe i missed it but it looks like the Epson is either with the color filter in place (Dynamic Cinema) or in Dynamic profiles... to get better color representation without calibration you should try the Natural profile...
100% this. I own the Epson LS12000, and it comes VERY close to the Sony--at least insofar as I can tell, given the @hatoraidcowboy's excellent review--while not in Vivid, Bright Cinema, or Dynamic mode. I feel like these three modes exist largely to overcome less-than-ideal ambient lighting situations. Frankly, it's convenient that these modes even exist, because all of this talk of detail and blacks, etc., becomes somewhat moot with poor ambient light. For the best theater room cinema experience, the Epson's Cinema and Natural modes have warmer, more natural colors and deeper blacks with more detail on the whole. That's what I'm observing right now as I'm fiddling with my own Epson LS12000. One thing the Sony *cannot* do is be 35% brighter in order to overpower ambient light, which itself may admittedly be a moot point, if the Sony is located in a proper theater room. It would seem that if you're able to control for ambient lighting conditions, the Sony would probably be the way to go. Even then . . . I'm wondering how far properly calibrating the Epson would get you. Does it get you within 90% of the Sony's picture quality then? What's that 10% worth to you? Anyway, the Epson is legit. No complaints here.
I think the major reason to pick the one over the other is if you are using a Scope screen (2.35:1) or a 16:9 screen. A scope screen "requires" motorized lens shift.
I just purchased the Sony about 3 weeks ago. The Epson was the only other one I seriously considered. My decision was helped partially by your previous videos about these two projectors. I got it for $5,200 by the way. I’ve got a 120” 16:9 screen which is the widest I can physically go in my room. Therefore my screen width is still maximized when I’m watching a 2:35:1 or 2.4:1 movie. Therefore, the lens memory is completely useless, so no need for that. 4k60 is perfectly fine for video games as well. That’s all most games are targeting anyway. Ps, early in the video you say you are going to buy the Sony and then later when you do the comparison you say your probably going with the Epson. Which one is it?! 😂
Thanks man!!! Glad I could help! Lol yea…..I was gonna go with the Sony but due to fan noise and a few other things I decided to go with the Epson. I recorded parts of the video at separate times LOL Congrats on your purchase!
@@hatoraidcowboy Thanks! Also, I haven’t heard the fan kick on once yet. I’m sorta thinking that in your case, it might have been directly related to your hush box. Mines hanging from the ceiling with a few feet around it in every direction.
Weird. My hushbox is still open on the front. So it has plenty of airflow. The LS12000B has been whisper quiet since I’ve been using it. Hasnt ramped up once yet
What happens if you dialed down the light output on the Epson, both black levels and clarity should be better. With that kind og light output in a well dark room it can be the key.
11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1
Thank you very much. When you look at the written details, Epson seems superior, but when you look at the actual image quality, Sony literally slaps Epson.
That was very useful comparison. My theatre is a multi purpose room and has quite a bit of ambient light unless I shut the blinds. I prefer to will be watch live games during the day time because of which my vendor recommends EPSON LS 12000B .
@@hatoraidcowboy you'll be happy with it. I think I am leaning towards the Epson as well. Even though I do like the Sony a lot. I just redid my screen wall and my screen is bigger now. It is 142 inches, in 16.9 with the Seymour UF centerstage material. I think the extra lumens would do good on the screen Also I think calibrating that Epson would be fun to do. Thanks for the review my brother.
This is a great video... but will admit I know hardly anything about projectors.... I'll be moving this yr hopefully so will be doing a larger film room... have had pioneer kuros still one and Panasonic flagship oled but am interested in getting a projector as for the big screen impact... only used for movies via panny ub9000 bluray player but am hooked on jet black bars on movies... 🙄 would the Sony be better for this ...I'm the type to save till I get what I want if its going to be worth it.. Many thanks for the video..
@@hatoraidcowboy Many thanks for the quick reply... I'm renovating a flat in a couple wks and a hi fi home cinema shop is down the road from the job and they are putting a Sony high end projector in their demo room so I'll pay them a visit... 👍🏽
Not really, neither projector was calibrated. I reviewed them both out of the box. It’s a starting point for those looking at both. I stated in the video I did not calibrate. I also chose the Epson for my theater so there’s def no disservice towards Epson.
Good try but I disagree with your test methodology. There would be far more value in having both projectors calibrated so that they are looking their best. OOTB on the Epson is widely acknowledged as a bad image. No idea why Epson used that as their default settings. Dynamic mode using Archea's setings on AVSforum are widely regarded as one of the best settings for the Epson, as it's the only one that allows for full fade to black. The green push can be easily calibrated out. On the Sony, it gives the appearance of more detail because of Reality Creation. However it also gives false detail if you look closely. The biggest issue with the Sony is it does not have a motorized lens. They're both good projectors. I only wish you had shown them in their respective best settings. Also I recommend you consistently show each projector on one side. In this video the Epson was sometimes on the right and sometimes on the left.
Very interesting video. I'm still working with my Epson 5040 that I've had since 2018. Been saving up for one of the JVC's (NZ7 or NZ8). But videos like this always give me something to think about. Thanks.
@@hatoraidcowboy ....they give basic settings for dynamic mode cleans up some of the slighty off tone of the colors. Dynamic mode is the only one that fades to black.....let me know your thoughts....even better in video form.. lol
@@hatoraidcowboy- The user on AVS, Archaea (aka Jonathan), has some interesting comments and videos comparing the LS12000 and JVC NZ7. He owns both and is keeping the Epson, not because of the cost but because he prefers it for most of the content he watches. It sounds like the Dynamic mode settings he is using make a lot of difference and changes things for a people who have seen it.
And now as Sony XW5000 , Epson LS12000 AND JVC NP5 are available at the same price point (~5000€).. let's make an updated comparison of those three projectors?! 🎉✅
I went with the 5000ES simply due to wanting the native 4K. It truly is clearer. I have seen a few demos where that pixel shift just doesn't cut it. My theater is set up with 127" 16:9 and after manually calibrating the lens it hasn't needed to be touched. I like the natural picture, and with my 100% light controlled room it is bright enough for me. Great video!
I think you made the right choice. Slightly more expensive but I regret buying my Epson. Just after warranty period, my Epson 9400 died on me. Not cool. Motherboard issue. Never had an issue with Sony or Panasonic in the pastany years I've had projectors... Thinking it might be cheaper for a reason... No free lunch as they say!
Is the Epson LS12000 *B* the same model as the EH Epson LS12000 B that you see being sold by Japanese sellers (240V)? Is there a difference between the plain LS12000, the EH LS12000 and the EH LS12000 B? (Would I have difficulties getting the 240V models shipped from Japan to work in the US?) Thanks!
@@hatoraidcowboy Thanks for the answer. So, the model you have is the LS 12000 B, no EH in the model name? Are you happy you went with the Epson over the Sony? I'm a bit torn between the 2...I like the sharper image of the Sony, but the lack of motorized lens and being less bright are concerns. I plan on using a screen between 150"-170", I wonder if the brighter Epson will be the right choice?
@ntlknight Yea there’s no EH. I’m more than happy with the Epson. Motorized lens is also a huge factor for me. I think with the size screen you are looking at you will need the higher brightness of the Epson. The Epson can more than handle a 150” screen and even bigger
I have a Sony VW 95es. Yes, I've had it for over 13 years. I just cracked 1000 hrs. The person that did my calibration said, it's at the Max. I need to upgrade. I've been looking at this one.Is it quiet because in the video comet saying it's loud. Thanks
Hello again! The picture but HD Fury gets a little faded. There is too little info on how to find good settings with HDFury. I think sony's Tonmapping is not so good compared to JVC
Picked up the LS12000, but there is no audio when connected (through either HDMI ports) to Panasonic UB820P-K (and no a/v signal when connected to a Sony UBP X700) through a Pioneer VSX 933. Audio and video are both present through a Roku Ultra, but with many video drop outs. Must i have a 2.1 HDMI cord to solve the dropout issue? Any thoughts on correcting no audio to 4K players?
If you’re getting audio and video on the roku then its more than likely a settings issue on the other devices. Also make sure you use HDMI 2 on the projector. HDMI 2 supports e-arc. You should only need a 48Gbps hdmi cable for gaming at 4K 120.
Thanks for the video. This is the second video I’ve seen where dark scenes were so dark with the Sony that you basically couldn’t see much. That said, my old Infocus X10 was similar but I was able to “fix” it with calibration through my receiver. I was able to see details in the dragon scene when one of the sons stole the dragon at night in Game of Thrones. I was really surprised after the episode when everyone was complaining how they couldn’t see anything. So, I believe that the Sony could be “fixed.”
Hello, how you doing? Hope you doing fine. I m fine. So I got my EPSON 12000. The Sony makes a Super HDR, no question! I informed myself in detail in advance, and initially wanted the Sony 5000ES. SDR, BT 709, HD material are both good. The EPSON's 120 Hz and HDMI 2.1 are better for gamers. The details are better in native 4K. But scenes or detailed pictures of skyscraper windows are rare. If you look often during the day or in a bright room, the EPSON is better because it is brighter. Contrast, and Ansi Contrast, the EPSON is the better one. The Sony has the better black level and the picture is better than BT2020 4K material and in the black dark home cinema. With a cheap Calman calibration, you can do it yourself, you get the green cast out of the EPSON, and you have almost the full DCI color space. The EPSON then loses some brightness, but is still bright enough. The EPSON is quiet. Fully automatic lens from Japan both have, whereas the Sony manual, but set once... laser light source. In the case of the Sony predecessors, a loss of contrast was noticed in the devices over time. EPSON has had positive experience with laser projectors for decades. These reasons make me choose the EPSON. Both high end products. Better than cinema thanks for the video Nice day
@@hatoraidcowboy Yeah, actually I'm a US American too. My father was German, my grandfather was a lieutenant in the Luftwaffe. My mother is half French and half Italian. Yes, this is where my grandfather fought against the Nazis as a foot soldier..
Hi Bro! The Epson, it is a very good Projector, I don't regret it, I give him a 4,5 from 5,0, same as the Sony 5000ES, or JVC 5 The better Ansi Contrast on the Epson & JVC HDR is on JVC a better. But, with a Master Contrast Tuning from Avitect the Epson has the same native Contrast from 7100:1 as the Sony, and the same deep Black, like the Sony. Sony hasn't got a mechanical optic, so on my 21:9 it won't work. JVC has a Lamp. The Best Black on the JVC The best sharpness on the Sony All together for me the Epson is the best. Thanks to EPSON :D AwAwAwAw
I bought an Epson that died on me after 600 hours only... motherboard issue. I DO regret my choice! Sony it is from now on... Such a let down! Wishing you better luck. My advice: go for extra warranty
If you're picky, no doubt Sony wins, hands down. Very surprising to see such difference even on TH-cam!. No doubt that I would push to get a deal or open box price for a Sony if I can. Especially if projector is for a darkish room. No need for extra brightness when your room is well suited for projectors... In fact, I can't see the point of going the projector route if one does not have a decent room in terms of darkness level...
@@hatoraidcowboy I’m running the Sony 5000 on a 114” Carada 1:85:1 brilliant white 1.4 gain screen . Panasonic 9000 Marantz Cinema 50 with older Klipsch RF35 towers RC35 center and 2 RS52 rear speakers 12” Klipsch sub. Looking to add atmos in the near future .
Hi there Adjust the colors again in dynamic mode today, since it is the only one where the light source of the projector switches off to black. After yesterday's calibration, the projector is much more colorful, explosions and clouds are more vivid and realistic, before without calibration the projector was cool in terms of image compared to after. For me, the EPSOn LS 12000B is also a phenomenal projector of the high-end class, with Sony and JVC, which doesn't need to hide behind the 1000.00 EUR more expensive Sony 5000ES, better lens, better brightness, etc., quite the opposite when you Considering that you have to pay EUR 15,000.00 for a Sony with the same brightness, and natively or not, a lot has happened in 4K shifting. EPSON is up to date, my eyes don't see any difference to native 4K either. My values after calibration: RGB level 10% = 0.3 ; 20% = 0.6 ; 30% = 1.5 ; 40% = 1.1 ; 50% = 0.9 ; 60% = 0.7 ; 70% = 0.6 ; 80% = 0.7 ; 90% = 0.2 ; 100% = 0.6 I paid more attention to a linear and balanced range here, and that things tend to get better rather than worse towards the back. More on that later. CIE color space BT 709 Red 0.6 Green 0.6 Blue 1.3 Yellow 0.5 Cyan 0.6 Magenta 0.5 White 0.6 You should all meet and are within the tolerance range. So, all parameters are fine, but of course it can always be improved, only I have set one picture mode, namely cinema, where I will give you the other settings for the way, so that you also have a better home cinema than cinema . The following applies: movie theater Hell.50 Ko55 Fasä58 Fato50 Sch14/14/14
white balance FaTemp.7 G-M4 Fri in low Liaus 75% Dyn Ko High Speed image opt. image template 1 intoxication 8th MPEG R. Low sup right Fine L. / soft focus 6/14 Auto Co. Withd. 12 Scenes Gamma adapt. 7 Dynamic range settings HDR10 8 image processing Fine Have fun The Basti
@@hatoraidcowboy I respect LL Cool J. Man his early beginnings, I can't life without my Radio 'till - his Perfomance on Soultrain - Radio - Bigger and Deffer - Mama said knock you out - to Loungin' - & till today.
Calibrated the Epson should look almost equal to the Sony. The 5000ES may have some more sharpness and that may be its biggest plus over the Sony. I'm leaning Epson at the moment but ask me again in two days and I may be back to Sony.
The gap between sharpness on both is not very big. Overall I prefer the Epson over the Sony for what the Epson offers at the price. It just cant be beat.
Seeing them together for the first time highlights the more natural colour and more detail of the Sony, and i own the LS12000B. Maybe this is partly due to the picture mode. But saying that, the Epson has other qualities which are superior to Sony such as brightness, HDMI 2.1, 120Hz gaming, more flexible set up etc. The blue/green push is annoying in dimmer scenes and i wish Epson would fix it with a firmware update, maybe it can be improved with proper calibration. Despite the shortcomings i would still stick with the Epson,it is cheaper, has more features, and for those with larger screens it's significantly brighter.
@Carduccio990 You’re spot on with your analysis. I agree….for me and my use case, the Epson wins out. I love it. Now I just need to dial in the calibration. 😊
I take it neither projector was calibrated because if they had have been there wouldn't have been the huge difference in brightness between them. The Epson in particular it's highlights look blown out compared to the Sony.
I appreciate taking the time to do these type of comparisons but you do understand where I am coming from with this, a calibration levels the playing field between projectors so that Out of the box colours etc don't influence the outcome. You even concentrate on what makes each projector different like native contrast, shaperness, motion handling etc
@SuperBloodyskull Thanks….And I understand. But I’m not a calibrator and I dont have the tools to calibrate. Most consumers dont even calibrate their tv’s let alone a projector. This video was specifically a starting guide and what kind of picture you get out of the box.
Check this out: Avitect Master Contrast Tuning brings the LS 12000B 7100:1 vs 5000ES 7500:1 this ist a black by 0.27 Lumen. The same as on the Sony by Epson:) For 300 Bucks
@@ChristianBungert So the Sony measured 7000:1 - 7500:1 using Calman The manufacturers always provide their own information here. According to Epson, the 12000 also has a ratio of more than 7100:1. Just like the Sony. However, the Epson is much brighter and has the far better ANSI contrast at 400:1. The Sony can't keep up here. 7100:1 and 0.27 lumens, here black is black without a blue cast. The aperture eliminates the blue cast. The Sony today “only” costs 4998.00 EURO. The Epson 4999.00 EURO. Why is that, I ask you? Because of the contrast drifting on the Sony? Because the Epson is the better home theater projector in the price range? With an additional 299.00 EURO invested for tuning, the Epson is provided with a black color that is otherwise only known from Sony or JVC. Best regards
I don't doubt that the Stewart is a better quality screen, but I'm thinking about going to a 135" 16:9, and the Stewart is 8 times more than the Silver Ticket.
@@hatoraidcowboy You said it at 8:29 your probably going to purchase the Sony 🤷😊 Also like I mentioned. Go into the laser settings and drop it to 70 and the fan noise will magicly dissappear 👍 One major thing to note about the Epson, once calibration is complete you will have the exact same lumens as the Sony. But at least with the Sony you will retain the details and video processing. Epson is a great starter projector for those starting out. Stepping up to the Sony is the next level!
@@hatoraidcowboy so in the video you said you were sending back the epson because it's due back and would have more time with the Sony. Then said you were most likely getting the Sony 🤷 But why? And more importantly did you get the new screen in yet? And can't wait for your review on that 👍🙏
Yea I shipped both of them off but I got another LS12000B lol Yea….I recorded parts of this video at separate times so I ended deciding to go with the Epson. Dont have my screen yet, I had to buy my Arendal speakers so the screen has to wait 😃
bro sony vpl vhp 61 laser projector is good projector can i buy please reply detail love from india i want buy 1 projector medium price epson or viewsoni px 748 or sony vpl vhp 61 leaser
If your only using a 100 inch screen, you could get TCL's new 98 inch mini led tv for under 10,000. Over 2,000 dimming zones and over 3,000 nits peak brightness for HDR. No projector will get even close to that brightness. By the time you buy the Epson or Sony and get a high quality screen, you could purchase that tv.
That’s a good point. Its gonna all go down to preference. Gotta remember too though that a TV limits your placement of the LCR. A lot of people want their speakers behind the screen. Its all about use case. I’m happy with projection for my theater. Everywhere else in the house I’ll use a TV
Awesome video and very informative. I think the brightness in the Epson does it for me man. I like the Sony as well, but I feel the Epson would give me a better gaming experience
Brightness doesn’t mean better. Never let brightness be the factor. You want natural picture. People fall for brightness all the time. That’s why snow looks blue on TVs at the store. Brightness cranked to trick ur eye
Hatoraid if the Epson has more greenish tint out of the box this is not a problem. You can't say because of that that Sony hase more natural picture than Epson. You need to calibrate both of them properly so the comparioson is ok.
Thanks for your comment. I made sure to state in the video both projector’s arent calibrated. These were review units so I had no access to calibration tools or calibrators. Most people will be in the same situation. Obviously unless you have them both to compare like I did you wont even notice the greenish tint. This was never meant to be a calibrated comparison. Just straight out of the box. I also mentioned the issues could be remedied if you do calibrate. I made sure everyone was informed.
Interesting what you're saying about being happy about either projector if you don't have both of them in the same room to compare... But your video's purpose is exactly that. It's about knowing what you're missing when you CAN compare. And looking at your video, no doubt the Sony is best! So what's the point if one does not take the comparison into account?! Just saying...
Great video. Think the infinite contrast spec is because the Sony will full fade to black. Full divide by zero situation. My wife experienced it several times last night for the first time... it was really cool. I like it. I have a projector for the first time recently. Nevertheless I love the Sony, especially if you pick up a Youthman deal on a used MadVR Pro mark 1. Match made in heaven. I highly recommend it.
@hatoraidcowboy I'm here in Houston... But 150" 2.4:1 Seymour ALR screen, microperf. Klipsch THX 8000Ls as all of my bedlayer, THX 502L in the ceiling for Atmos. 2x SVS SB3000s. Going to check out that Grid HiFi I saw on your channel. Need a calibrator.
Cool setup bro. Bet it rocks in there. Yea, check em out. You’ll like deal with That Home Theater dude. All of them are cool peeps. Let them know I referred you 😁
@Carducci990 Perhaps Sony is using that to market the dynamic contrast number and Epson isn't. I knew JVC does, but didn't know Epson would do it as well.
Maybe it’s just me but it really annoys me that the comparisons switch locations every freaking time. Make a choice put one left and the other right or vice versa.
Dude, you should keep one projector, say Sony to the left and the Epson to the right, throughout the video, by constantly swapping the projectors, you overwhelm my OCD! 😮😂👍
I am so confused why i see websites and AV channels recommending the Epson when the sony exists. Theres another side by side comparison video that i saw a while ago that is just embarassing for Epson. They have a great unit but the Sony is Phenomenal in comparison. Contrast, shadow control, black levels and SHARPNESS. Same price here in Australia so why would anyone go for the Epson.
Epson can’t be beat for value. Its a great project. People by the Epson for many reasons. It all depends on what your needs on and budget. Cant hate on people for choosing Epson. They are both great projectors
If I were to do that, I wouldn’t buy neither. I would get a quality UST projector. I wouldn’t want to hang a projector from the ceiling. UST just saves a lot of space!
@@hatoraidcowboy After watching the review of both, definitely wouldn’t buy either. I’ve thought about it, sitting down and looking at my room, UST definitely would save space, speaker placement, etc. still enjoyed the review!
Yeah but it is one more device in the Front where u want it clean. Also ust are designed for living rooms with high light output but bad Blacks. Also most dont have adjustable lenses and focus. So 21:9 screens are difficult to pair with them etc pp
@@hatoraidcowboy it can be "complicated" to explain it as english is not my mother language. Currently i have an epson tw9400 (same as the 6050ub), had the ls12000 on loan for a week. It's definitely better in every aspect but not drastically better. then a friend of mine ( an av journalist) got the sony 5000 and 7000 for review, mesurement and calibration. we tested both in a big room on a 180" screen and the projectors were like 8-10 meters away. we were both speechless even for the 5000 and the performance it delived for the price, the brightness was ok but more than enough for most home cinemas. what you get instead is the best tone mapping and motion control i've ever seen in its price range, lastly the image out of the box was very good and required like 10 minutes of work to calibrate it to industry standards (the 7000 made me almost cry but that's another story and another budget as it's almost 3 times the price).
in contrast, color saturation and skin color, sony is better. in brightness, epson is better. because ls12000 is 2700 lumen and xw5000 is only 2000. But I am a sony fan.
hello out there Have my 12000 calibrated now. Calibration is worthwhile.The explosions, the fire looks vivid and dynamic as well as colorful. As it should, and as it is synonymous with the Sony. Epson doesn't have to hide from Sony when it comes to the black value either. Black is black. With the HDR controller you get a ratio of 1:2500000. The shades of the sky and the clouds also look realistic. Calibration costs 230 EURO.
@@hatoraidcowboy You just need 1. Calibrite ColorChecker Display Pro - 200 Bucks 2. A camera tripod - 30 Bucks 3. HCFR Software - Free over the internet 4. AVR Pictures - Free over the internet There are plenty of instructional videos on TH-cam. Have Fun
I was torn between the Sony and the JVC....but decided to wait till next year to pull the trigger on hopefully lower prices...Decided to go with a Epson Pro 6050UB for now...2799.99 at Safe and Sound Electronics...Still hard to beat...even in 2024...BUT!..i WILL PULL THE TRIGGER ON A DISCOUNTED SONY 6000 LASER NEXT YEAR...(NO BALONEY)...:0)@@hatoraidcowboy
Some projectors look better out of the box like the Sony, some projector you need to be calibrated or at least tinker with in order to get a better picture, color accuracy, etc. which makes the question of "which is the superior projector" basically worthless, and does not help any projector buyer, who rarely buys a projector and uses it with out the box settings.
I don t agree. The Epson has the much better Kontrast, with avitect s master Contrast Tuning the Same very good black, and the better brightness. He make no noise, better optic. I don t See a difference between Naturel 4k or 4k Lensshift. Colors are very good on the Epson. What about Contrast Drifting? Sony also ist good, now cheaper than the Epson.
@@oblivion_007 Look for Avitect Epson Master Contrast Tuning. With this Lens the Black Level goes deeper Black, and the Contrast between White and Black really ist the best! After Calman Calibration the Brightness ist a little bit lower, but still is Top, but the Black Level ist deeper and No more Green or blue, but much more black babak.
This is a bad comparison you clearly were biased I knew you were going for Sony lol the projectors should have been set up beforehand. I would always go for the brightest like I would do the same for a TV
Wrong. I went with the Epson. After having both in my possession I ended up keeping the Epson. Brightness isnt everything when choosing a display. Only looking at brightness is the most biased thing you can do.
@@hatoraidcowboy You did say you were going to buy the Sony earlier on, and you were more into the Sony just by how you were speaking. No brightness is not just the be all end all type of thing. But the brighter, the better the all the colours. You made the best choice, lol
Sony has true 4k. Epson is much brighter. Neither do 3D. Don't waste your money, you could buy a 83 inch G3 oled and it would destroy any projector. I still have my JVC RS540. Hard to let it go with a native contrast ratio of 130,000 to 1. Even the most expensive laser projectors Don't have that yet.
Some people want projectors though. Nobody’s saying a projector can beat a television. For home theater I will always choose projection. Bigger & more immersive for much much less than a tv the same size of a 100” screen or bigger.
You won't see a TV any time soon in a dedicated HT room that needs at least a 120" size screen for better immersiveness, plus having an AT screen to place the LCR speakers behind will give you the best sound. Living rooms and family rooms with ambient light will benefit more with a TV.
Ummmm...but if you look at the beautiful 158" Cinemascope projection with my Epson LS12000, you wouldn't even consider a puny 83" TV to take its place. Different strokes. PS. Lens memory is amazing!
I think it was bad judgement to post a "shootout" video with two uncalibrated projectors. This is no help for people researching these brands and can give misleading impressions and verdicts. Even though you state that they are not calibrated, some may not understand the implications of this. You should replace this video with a proper one. And it earns a thumbs down from me!
Which projector do you think is superior?
Sony definitely in sharpness and color but could use a tad bit more brightness
@@ZackCrain That’s why nothing can really touch Epson for value.
EPSON
Hello, how you doing? Hope you doing fine. I m fine.
So I got my EPSON 12000.
The Sony makes a Super HDR, no question!
I informed myself in detail in advance, and initially wanted the Sony 5000ES.
SDR, BT 709, HD material are both good.
The EPSON's 120 Hz and HDMI 2.1 are better for gamers.
The details are better in native 4K. But scenes or detailed pictures of skyscraper windows are rare.
If you look often during the day or in a bright room, the EPSON is better because it is brighter.
Contrast, and Ansi Contrast, the EPSON is the better one.
The Sony has the better black level and the picture is better than BT2020 4K material and in the black dark home cinema.
With a cheap Calman calibration, you can do it yourself, you get the green cast out of the EPSON, and you have almost the full DCI color space.
The EPSON then loses some brightness, but is still bright enough.
The EPSON is quiet. Fully automatic lens from Japan both have, whereas the Sony manual, but set once...
laser light source.
In the case of the Sony predecessors, a loss of contrast was noticed in the devices over time. EPSON has had positive experience with laser projectors for decades.
These reasons make me choose the EPSON.
Both high end products.
Better than cinema
thanks for the video
Nice day
The Sony is like 2k more and lack the brightness that the Epson has. The Epson isn't far off at all, I'm picking the Epson.
@moretwocome21 😎
Maybe i missed it but it looks like the Epson is either with the color filter in place (Dynamic Cinema) or in Dynamic profiles... to get better color representation without calibration you should try the Natural profile...
100% this. I own the Epson LS12000, and it comes VERY close to the Sony--at least insofar as I can tell, given the @hatoraidcowboy's excellent review--while not in Vivid, Bright Cinema, or Dynamic mode. I feel like these three modes exist largely to overcome less-than-ideal ambient lighting situations. Frankly, it's convenient that these modes even exist, because all of this talk of detail and blacks, etc., becomes somewhat moot with poor ambient light. For the best theater room cinema experience, the Epson's Cinema and Natural modes have warmer, more natural colors and deeper blacks with more detail on the whole. That's what I'm observing right now as I'm fiddling with my own Epson LS12000. One thing the Sony *cannot* do is be 35% brighter in order to overpower ambient light, which itself may admittedly be a moot point, if the Sony is located in a proper theater room. It would seem that if you're able to control for ambient lighting conditions, the Sony would probably be the way to go. Even then . . . I'm wondering how far properly calibrating the Epson would get you. Does it get you within 90% of the Sony's picture quality then? What's that 10% worth to you? Anyway, the Epson is legit. No complaints here.
@michaelplaxico Thanks for sharing your experience!
I think the major reason to pick the one over the other is if you are using a Scope screen (2.35:1) or a 16:9 screen. A scope screen "requires" motorized lens shift.
Very good point.
Exactly. That's what we're looking at doing. To get memorized/motorized on the Sony it's a huge price jump to $12k.
@@paulrogers945 yep and looking at these two I don’t think the Sony is worth the price increase.
It is the Epson Bro. The Epson Man.
Any comment on 4K 120Hz in Epson's?
Also... is Sony's blacks deeper? (Kind of like the OLED deep?) Or why the infinite contrast?
I dont have any 4K 120 games so I’m not sure. But Sony’s blacks are definitely better than Epson’s.
I just purchased the Sony about 3 weeks ago. The Epson was the only other one I seriously considered. My decision was helped partially by your previous videos about these two projectors. I got it for $5,200 by the way. I’ve got a 120” 16:9 screen which is the widest I can physically go in my room. Therefore my screen width is still maximized when I’m watching a 2:35:1 or 2.4:1 movie. Therefore, the lens memory is completely useless, so no need for that. 4k60 is perfectly fine for video games as well. That’s all most games are targeting anyway. Ps, early in the video you say you are going to buy the Sony and then later when you do the comparison you say your probably going with the Epson. Which one is it?! 😂
Thanks man!!! Glad I could help!
Lol yea…..I was gonna go with the Sony but due to fan noise and a few other things I decided to go with the Epson. I recorded parts of the video at separate times LOL
Congrats on your purchase!
@@hatoraidcowboy Thanks! Also, I haven’t heard the fan kick on once yet. I’m sorta thinking that in your case, it might have been directly related to your hush box. Mines hanging from the ceiling with a few feet around it in every direction.
Weird. My hushbox is still open on the front. So it has plenty of airflow. The LS12000B has been whisper quiet since I’ve been using it. Hasnt ramped up once yet
I sit right under my Sony and I can’t hear it at all. It’s just a couple feet over my head
What happens if you dialed down the light output on the Epson, both black levels and clarity should be better. With that kind og light output in a well dark room it can be the key.
Thank you very much.
When you look at the written details, Epson seems superior, but when you look at the actual image quality, Sony literally slaps Epson.
That was very useful comparison. My theatre is a multi purpose room and has quite a bit of ambient light unless I shut the blinds. I prefer to will be watch live games during the day time because of which my vendor recommends EPSON LS 12000B .
Yea if you have ambient light coming in you’ll need more lumens and the Epson should fit the bill
good video, but u should match colorimetry to SONY as picture modes are not equal in both projector
Yeah the Epson would need to be calibrated. The Sony looks really good right out of the box. Both are awesome projectors.
Yup! I’ll be going with the Epson but it does need some calibration.
@@hatoraidcowboy you'll be happy with it. I think I am leaning towards the Epson as well. Even though I do like the Sony a lot. I just redid my screen wall and my screen is bigger now. It is 142 inches, in 16.9 with the Seymour UF centerstage material. I think the extra lumens would do good on the screen Also I think calibrating that Epson would be fun to do. Thanks for the review my brother.
Yea I love the Epson. Congrats on your upgrades! I think the Epson is gonna look great on that screen. Cant wait to get my Stewart Screen also.
@@hatoraidcowboy yes sir
When do you think you’ll upgrade?
Was there much difference with their motion handling between the two projectors?
Yes! The Epson was much better. Very very smooth. On the Sony I could see some judder occassionally.
This is a great video... but will admit I know hardly anything about projectors.... I'll be moving this yr hopefully so will be doing a larger film room... have had pioneer kuros still one and Panasonic flagship oled but am interested in getting a projector as for the big screen impact... only used for movies via panny ub9000 bluray player but am hooked on jet black bars on movies... 🙄 would the Sony be better for this ...I'm the type to save till I get what I want if its going to be worth it..
Many thanks for the video..
If you want deeper blacks go with the Sony
@@hatoraidcowboy
Many thanks for the quick reply... I'm renovating a flat in a couple wks and a hi fi home cinema shop is down the road from the job and they are putting a Sony high end projector in their demo room so I'll pay them a visit... 👍🏽
@christophercharles3426 You’re welcome. Yea the best thing you can do is demo in person and see for yourself
Calibration is key!Epson was given a real disservice in this comparison.
Not really, neither projector was calibrated. I reviewed them both out of the box. It’s a starting point for those looking at both. I stated in the video I did not calibrate. I also chose the Epson for my theater so there’s def no disservice towards Epson.
Good try but I disagree with your test methodology. There would be far more value in having both projectors calibrated so that they are looking their best. OOTB on the Epson is widely acknowledged as a bad image. No idea why Epson used that as their default settings. Dynamic mode using Archea's setings on AVSforum are widely regarded as one of the best settings for the Epson, as it's the only one that allows for full fade to black. The green push can be easily calibrated out.
On the Sony, it gives the appearance of more detail because of Reality Creation. However it also gives false detail if you look closely. The biggest issue with the Sony is it does not have a motorized lens.
They're both good projectors. I only wish you had shown them in their respective best settings. Also I recommend you consistently show each projector on one side. In this video the Epson was sometimes on the right and sometimes on the left.
I mentioned in the beginning of the video they werent calibrated.
Very interesting video. I'm still working with my Epson 5040 that I've had since 2018. Been saving up for one of the JVC's (NZ7 or NZ8). But videos like this always give me something to think about. Thanks.
Thank you! 🙌 Glad I could help. Keep us updated on your journey!
I bought the LS12000B. Pretty much because I watched this video. I'm going to set it up some time this week. Thanks again. @@hatoraidcowboy
@offdacorner Wow, that’s awesome man. So glad I could help! Let me know what you think! 😎
Have you tried the settings listed for Dynamic mode on the AVS ls12000 forum ?....works great for me
No I need to check that out!
@@hatoraidcowboy ....they give basic settings for dynamic mode cleans up some of the slighty off tone of the colors. Dynamic mode is the only one that fades to black.....let me know your thoughts....even better in video form.. lol
LOL I’ll look into it. Thanks!
@@hatoraidcowboy- The user on AVS, Archaea (aka Jonathan), has some interesting comments and videos comparing the LS12000 and JVC NZ7. He owns both and is keeping the Epson, not because of the cost but because he prefers it for most of the content he watches. It sounds like the Dynamic mode settings he is using make a lot of difference and changes things for a people who have seen it.
I’ve been using the dynamic mode setting and I like it!
And now as Sony XW5000 , Epson LS12000 AND JVC NP5 are available at the same price point (~5000€).. let's make an updated comparison of those three projectors?! 🎉✅
JVC > Sony > Epson in that order. I’d even go Sony before JVC if you aren’t doing the no windows black walls media room
I went with the 5000ES simply due to wanting the native 4K. It truly is clearer. I have seen a few demos where that pixel shift just doesn't cut it. My theater is set up with 127" 16:9 and after manually calibrating the lens it hasn't needed to be touched. I like the natural picture, and with my 100% light controlled room it is bright enough for me. Great video!
Thank you! 🙌 Yea they are both great projectors. Everyone is gonna choose differently but they are both winners. Sounds like you have an epic setup!
I think you made the right choice. Slightly more expensive but I regret buying my Epson. Just after warranty period, my Epson 9400 died on me. Not cool. Motherboard issue. Never had an issue with Sony or Panasonic in the pastany years I've had projectors... Thinking it might be cheaper for a reason... No free lunch as they say!
Is the Epson LS12000 *B* the same model as the EH Epson LS12000 B that you see being sold by Japanese sellers (240V)? Is there a difference between the plain LS12000, the EH LS12000 and the EH LS12000 B? (Would I have difficulties getting the 240V models shipped from Japan to work in the US?) Thanks!
Hello! I did not realize there was a similar model. I’d need to investigate to give you a proper answer.
@@hatoraidcowboy Thanks for the answer. So, the model you have is the LS 12000 B, no EH in the model name? Are you happy you went with the Epson over the Sony? I'm a bit torn between the 2...I like the sharper image of the Sony, but the lack of motorized lens and being less bright are concerns. I plan on using a screen between 150"-170", I wonder if the brighter Epson will be the right choice?
@ntlknight Yea there’s no EH. I’m more than happy with the Epson. Motorized lens is also a huge factor for me. I think with the size screen you are looking at you will need the higher brightness of the Epson. The Epson can more than handle a 150” screen and even bigger
You should calibrate the projectors before testing!
That’s I stated they were NOT calibrated. This was out of the box. I am not a calibrator and dont have access to one
i have a Sony 7000es and I couldn't be happier
That’s great! What screen are you pairing it with?
This is a different range, cannot be compared to 5000/12000b
I have a Sony VW 95es. Yes, I've had it for over 13 years. I just cracked 1000 hrs. The person that did my calibration said, it's at the Max. I need to upgrade. I've been looking at this one.Is it quiet because in the video comet saying it's loud.
Thanks
My 5000es was super loud. I couldnt do it
Hello! Just wanted to check if you played HD Fury Diva with the Sony 5000ES? I've tried, but I don't think it looks very good.
What about it doesnt look good?
Hello again! The picture but HD Fury gets a little faded. There is too little info on how to find good settings with HDFury. I think sony's Tonmapping is not so good compared to JVC
Are you using HD Fury Diva with your new Epson 1200?
Yes I am! 😃
Picked up the LS12000, but there is no audio when connected (through either HDMI ports) to Panasonic UB820P-K (and no a/v signal when connected to a Sony UBP X700) through a Pioneer VSX 933. Audio and video are both present through a Roku Ultra, but with many video drop outs. Must i have a 2.1 HDMI cord to solve the dropout issue? Any thoughts on correcting no audio to 4K players?
If you’re getting audio and video on the roku then its more than likely a settings issue on the other devices. Also make sure you use HDMI 2 on the projector. HDMI 2 supports e-arc.
You should only need a 48Gbps hdmi cable for gaming at 4K 120.
Hi . What screen do you have or using for the Sony ?
Silver Ticket 100”
Thanks for the video.
This is the second video I’ve seen where dark scenes were so dark with the Sony that you basically couldn’t see much. That said, my old Infocus X10 was similar but I was able to “fix” it with calibration through my receiver. I was able to see details in the dragon scene when one of the sons stole the dragon at night in Game of Thrones. I was really surprised after the episode when everyone was complaining how they couldn’t see anything. So, I believe that the Sony could be “fixed.”
You’re welcome! Yea either one of these projectors properly calibrated is gonna look amazing.
You can compare out of the box the 2 projectors on the condition you set the EPSON on natural setting …
The lens cap on the Sony is just for shipping. It’s not a lens cover 👍🏻 Great video and comparison. Sony was definitely a better image.
Thank you!! 🙌
Hello, how you doing? Hope you doing fine. I m fine.
So I got my EPSON 12000.
The Sony makes a Super HDR, no question!
I informed myself in detail in advance, and initially wanted the Sony 5000ES.
SDR, BT 709, HD material are both good.
The EPSON's 120 Hz and HDMI 2.1 are better for gamers.
The details are better in native 4K. But scenes or detailed pictures of skyscraper windows are rare.
If you look often during the day or in a bright room, the EPSON is better because it is brighter.
Contrast, and Ansi Contrast, the EPSON is the better one.
The Sony has the better black level and the picture is better than BT2020 4K material and in the black dark home cinema.
With a cheap Calman calibration, you can do it yourself, you get the green cast out of the EPSON, and you have almost the full DCI color space.
The EPSON then loses some brightness, but is still bright enough.
The EPSON is quiet. Fully automatic lens from Japan both have, whereas the Sony manual, but set once...
laser light source.
In the case of the Sony predecessors, a loss of contrast was noticed in the devices over time. EPSON has had positive experience with laser projectors for decades.
These reasons make me choose the EPSON.
Both high end products.
Better than cinema
thanks for the video
Nice day
You’re welcome and thank you for your input!
@@hatoraidcowboy That s Right! Greetings from Germany.
Wow Germany! That’s awesome. I work for a German pipeline inspection company here in the states. ROSEN
@@hatoraidcowboy Yeah, actually I'm a US American too.
My father was German, my grandfather was a lieutenant in the Luftwaffe. My mother is half French and half Italian. Yes, this is where my grandfather fought against the Nazis as a foot soldier..
Does epson comes close to sony after calibration?
It should. Mine is not professionally calibrated. Just my own
What made you go with the Epson over the sony?
A big thing was fan noise. The Sony was just way too loud. Also the HDMI 2.1 and 4K 120
Hi Bro!
The Epson, it is a very good Projector, I don't regret it, I give him a 4,5 from 5,0, same as the Sony 5000ES, or JVC 5
The better Ansi Contrast on the Epson & JVC
HDR is on JVC a better.
But, with a Master Contrast Tuning from Avitect the Epson has the same native Contrast from 7100:1 as the Sony, and the same deep Black, like the Sony.
Sony hasn't got a mechanical optic, so on my 21:9 it won't work.
JVC has a Lamp.
The Best Black on the JVC
The best sharpness on the Sony
All together for me the Epson is the best.
Thanks to EPSON :D
AwAwAwAw
I bought an Epson that died on me after 600 hours only... motherboard issue. I DO regret my choice! Sony it is from now on... Such a let down! Wishing you better luck. My advice: go for extra warranty
@raphaelmeillat8527 Epson LS12000B?
@@raphaelmeillat8527 oh no Man. I appreciate but my >Epson< now has 1000 hours and it is getting better & never to old. Are You a Sony Fanboy :D
If you're picky, no doubt Sony wins, hands down. Very surprising to see such difference even on TH-cam!. No doubt that I would push to get a deal or open box price for a Sony if I can. Especially if projector is for a darkish room. No need for extra brightness when your room is well suited for projectors... In fact, I can't see the point of going the projector route if one does not have a decent room in terms of darkness level...
Is the Spears & Munsil video calibration disc worth getting?
Yes!
I’ve been told it’s not, cos it’s not a real calibration disc. You could trying asking a pro about it.
This is a DIY solution. Spears and Munsil is legit.
I have the Sony , love it so far
What’s your setup like?
@@hatoraidcowboy
I’m running the Sony 5000 on a 114” Carada 1:85:1 brilliant white
1.4 gain screen . Panasonic 9000
Marantz Cinema 50
with older Klipsch RF35 towers RC35
center and 2 RS52 rear speakers
12” Klipsch sub.
Looking to add atmos in the near future .
Which one have the better black level🤔
The Sony.
Hi there
Adjust the colors again in dynamic mode today, since it is the only one where the light source of the projector switches off to black.
After yesterday's calibration, the projector is much more colorful, explosions and clouds are more vivid and realistic, before without calibration the projector was cool in terms of image compared to after.
For me, the EPSOn LS 12000B is also a phenomenal projector of the high-end class, with Sony and JVC, which doesn't need to hide behind the 1000.00 EUR more expensive Sony 5000ES, better lens, better brightness, etc., quite the opposite when you Considering that you have to pay EUR 15,000.00 for a Sony with the same brightness, and natively or not, a lot has happened in 4K shifting. EPSON is up to date, my eyes don't see any difference to native 4K either.
My values after calibration:
RGB level
10% = 0.3 ; 20% = 0.6 ; 30% = 1.5 ; 40% = 1.1 ; 50% = 0.9 ; 60% = 0.7 ; 70% = 0.6 ; 80% = 0.7 ; 90% = 0.2 ; 100% = 0.6
I paid more attention to a linear and balanced range here, and that things tend to get better rather than worse towards the back. More on that later.
CIE color space BT 709
Red 0.6 Green 0.6 Blue 1.3 Yellow 0.5 Cyan 0.6 Magenta 0.5 White 0.6 You should all meet and are within the tolerance range.
So,
all parameters are fine, but of course it can always be improved, only I have set one picture mode, namely cinema, where I will give you the other settings for the way, so that you also have a better home cinema than cinema .
The following applies:
movie theater
Hell.50
Ko55
Fasä58
Fato50
Sch14/14/14
white balance
FaTemp.7
G-M4
Fri in low
Liaus 75%
Dyn Ko High Speed
image opt.
image template 1
intoxication 8th
MPEG R. Low
sup right Fine L. / soft focus 6/14
Auto Co. Withd. 12
Scenes Gamma adapt. 7
Dynamic range
settings HDR10 8
image processing Fine
Have fun
The Basti
Thank you for your settings! I’ll try them out!
@@hatoraidcowboy I respect LL Cool J. Man his early beginnings, I can't life without my Radio 'till - his Perfomance on Soultrain - Radio - Bigger and Deffer - Mama said knock you out - to Loungin' - & till today.
Calibrated the Epson should look almost equal to the Sony. The 5000ES may have some more sharpness and that may be its biggest plus over the Sony. I'm leaning Epson at the moment but ask me again in two days and I may be back to Sony.
The gap between sharpness on both is not very big. Overall I prefer the Epson over the Sony for what the Epson offers at the price. It just cant be beat.
@@hatoraidcowboy Yup. Pretty much settled on the Epson.
Seeing them together for the first time highlights the more natural colour and more detail of the Sony, and i own the LS12000B. Maybe this is partly due to the picture mode.
But saying that, the Epson has other qualities which are superior to Sony such as brightness, HDMI 2.1, 120Hz gaming, more flexible set up etc.
The blue/green push is annoying in dimmer scenes and i wish Epson would fix it with a firmware update, maybe it can be improved with proper calibration.
Despite the shortcomings i would still stick with the Epson,it is cheaper, has more features, and for those with larger screens it's significantly brighter.
@Carduccio990 You’re spot on with your analysis. I agree….for me and my use case, the Epson wins out. I love it. Now I just need to dial in the calibration. 😊
I take it neither projector was calibrated because if they had have been there wouldn't have been the huge difference in brightness between them. The Epson in particular it's highlights look blown out compared to the Sony.
Correct neither projector was calibrated. I stated this in the video. This was a comparison straight out of the box.
I appreciate taking the time to do these type of comparisons but you do understand where I am coming from with this, a calibration levels the playing field between projectors so that Out of the box colours etc don't influence the outcome.
You even concentrate on what makes each projector different like native contrast, shaperness, motion handling etc
@SuperBloodyskull Thanks….And I understand. But I’m not a calibrator and I dont have the tools to calibrate. Most consumers dont even calibrate their tv’s let alone a projector. This video was specifically a starting guide and what kind of picture you get out of the box.
Check this out:
Avitect Master Contrast Tuning brings the LS 12000B 7100:1 vs 5000ES 7500:1 this ist a black by 0.27 Lumen. The same as on the Sony by Epson:)
For 300 Bucks
7500:1 isn't the regular contrast of the XW5000..it should be higher.
Black levels lower than epson tuning 0.27lm on the Sony..
@@ChristianBungert So the Sony measured 7000:1 - 7500:1 using Calman
The manufacturers always provide their own information here. According to Epson, the 12000 also has a ratio of more than 7100:1. Just like the Sony. However, the Epson is much brighter and has the far better ANSI contrast at 400:1. The Sony can't keep up here. 7100:1 and 0.27 lumens, here black is black without a blue cast. The aperture eliminates the blue cast.
The Sony today “only” costs 4998.00 EURO. The Epson 4999.00 EURO.
Why is that, I ask you?
Because of the contrast drifting on the Sony? Because the Epson is the better home theater projector in the price range? With an additional 299.00 EURO invested for tuning, the Epson is provided with a black color that is otherwise only known from Sony or JVC. Best regards
Check mal Avitect @@ChristianBungert
You can get the Sony 1000.00 EURO cheaper today than when you first started.@@ChristianBungert
Why are you going to a Stewart screen? Are you not happy with the Silver Ticket?
Not unhappy with it, I just want to upgrade to something better…Better materials, better screen. I want endgame for all my major components 😁
I don't doubt that the Stewart is a better quality screen, but I'm thinking about going to a 135" 16:9, and the Stewart is 8 times more than the Silver Ticket.
Its totally an individual preference. I just want something better at this point to pair with a better projector.
I have a Steward screen, and the image quality is amazing using my new LS12000. I can not see how it could be any better than what i am seeing now.
😀 That’s great to hear!! I can’t wait to get mine! Which screen do you have?
Definitely the Sony. But I would really love to see how the jvc np5 competes against these two. Any reviews coming for the JVC NP5?
Hello and thank you for watching! Unfortunately no plans for JVC yet. I dont have access to JVC
Sony. No question 👍
Why Sony? 😃
@@hatoraidcowboy
You said it at 8:29 your probably going to purchase the Sony 🤷😊
Also like I mentioned. Go into the laser settings and drop it to 70 and the fan noise will magicly dissappear 👍
One major thing to note about the Epson, once calibration is complete you will have the exact same lumens as the Sony. But at least with the Sony you will retain the details and video processing.
Epson is a great starter projector for those starting out. Stepping up to the Sony is the next level!
I dont have the Sony anymore. I’m using the LS12000B. That’s gonna be my projector 😃
@@hatoraidcowboy so in the video you said you were sending back the epson because it's due back and would have more time with the Sony. Then said you were most likely getting the Sony 🤷
But why?
And more importantly did you get the new screen in yet?
And can't wait for your review on that 👍🙏
Yea I shipped both of them off but I got another LS12000B lol Yea….I recorded parts of this video at separate times so I ended deciding to go with the Epson.
Dont have my screen yet, I had to buy my Arendal speakers so the screen has to wait 😃
bro sony vpl vhp 61 laser projector is good projector can i buy please reply detail love from india i want buy 1 projector medium price epson or viewsoni px 748 or sony vpl vhp 61 leaser
Hello thank you for watching!
Please call 713-218-8120 for a consultation. Let them know Hatoraid Cowboy referred you.
Really like how you showed side by side comparison! Great review! Sony definately looks way better
Thank you!
If your only using a 100 inch screen, you could get TCL's new 98 inch mini led tv for under 10,000. Over 2,000 dimming zones and over 3,000 nits peak brightness for HDR. No projector will get even close to that brightness. By the time you buy the Epson or Sony and get a high quality screen, you could purchase that tv.
That’s a good point. Its gonna all go down to preference. Gotta remember too though that a TV limits your placement of the LCR. A lot of people want their speakers behind the screen. Its all about use case. I’m happy with projection for my theater. Everywhere else in the house I’ll use a TV
Wow......nice job. Thank you.
You’re welcome!
Awesome video and very informative. I think the brightness in the Epson does it for me man. I like the Sony as well, but I feel the Epson would give me a better gaming experience
Yea I would agree with you on that as well. And thank you!
Brightness doesn’t mean better. Never let brightness be the factor. You want natural picture. People fall for brightness all the time. That’s why snow looks blue on TVs at the store. Brightness cranked to trick ur eye
Thanks very much ❤
You’re welcome! Thank you for watching!
Hatoraid if the Epson has more greenish tint out of the box this is not a problem. You can't say because of that that Sony hase more natural picture than Epson. You need to calibrate both of them properly so the comparioson is ok.
Thanks for your comment. I made sure to state in the video both projector’s arent calibrated. These were review units so I had no access to calibration tools or calibrators. Most people will be in the same situation. Obviously unless you have them both to compare like I did you wont even notice the greenish tint. This was never meant to be a calibrated comparison. Just straight out of the box. I also mentioned the issues could be remedied if you do calibrate. I made sure everyone was informed.
Buying 5000+$ projector and not shell another hundred or so for proper calibration is not a good move. Otherwise thank you for the demos. Thumbs up.
These are review units
Miracle super demo
Interesting what you're saying about being happy about either projector if you don't have both of them in the same room to compare... But your video's purpose is exactly that. It's about knowing what you're missing when you CAN compare. And looking at your video, no doubt the Sony is best! So what's the point if one does not take the comparison into account?! Just saying...
Great video. Think the infinite contrast spec is because the Sony will full fade to black. Full divide by zero situation. My wife experienced it several times last night for the first time... it was really cool. I like it. I have a projector for the first time recently.
Nevertheless I love the Sony, especially if you pick up a Youthman deal on a used MadVR Pro mark 1. Match made in heaven. I highly recommend it.
Thanks!
That’s awesome bro! Hopefully I can get a MADVR Envy to review one day. What’s the rest of your setup like?
@hatoraidcowboy I'm here in Houston... But 150" 2.4:1 Seymour ALR screen, microperf. Klipsch THX 8000Ls as all of my bedlayer, THX 502L in the ceiling for Atmos. 2x SVS SB3000s.
Going to check out that Grid HiFi I saw on your channel. Need a calibrator.
Cool setup bro. Bet it rocks in there.
Yea, check em out. You’ll like deal with That Home Theater dude. All of them are cool peeps. Let them know I referred you 😁
The Epson also has full fade to black in the Dynamic picture mode
@Carducci990 Perhaps Sony is using that to market the dynamic contrast number and Epson isn't. I knew JVC does, but didn't know Epson would do it as well.
Awesome review, next you can leave the music out thanks.
Thanks!
Maybe it’s just me but it really annoys me that the comparisons switch locations every freaking time. Make a choice put one left and the other right or vice versa.
Dude, you should keep one projector, say Sony to the left and the Epson to the right, throughout the video, by constantly swapping the projectors, you overwhelm my OCD! 😮😂👍
If I had the space to do that I would lol 😂
@@hatoraidcowboy I thought it was Editing mistake! 🤔
@Arun43647 lol nope
..merci de montrer des films ..👍🇫🇷
You’re welcome!
I am so confused why i see websites and AV channels recommending the Epson when the sony exists. Theres another side by side comparison video that i saw a while ago that is just embarassing for Epson. They have a great unit but the Sony is Phenomenal in comparison. Contrast, shadow control, black levels and SHARPNESS. Same price here in Australia so why would anyone go for the Epson.
Epson can’t be beat for value. Its a great project. People by the Epson for many reasons. It all depends on what your needs on and budget. Cant hate on people for choosing Epson. They are both great projectors
If I were to do that, I wouldn’t buy neither. I would get a quality UST projector. I wouldn’t want to hang a projector from the ceiling. UST just saves a lot of space!
If that’s your prerogative that’s great!
@@hatoraidcowboy After watching the review of both, definitely wouldn’t buy either. I’ve thought about it, sitting down and looking at my room, UST definitely would save space, speaker placement, etc. still enjoyed the review!
That’s fair. Everyone’s use case is gonna be different. Whatever works for you! 😃
And thanks!
Yeah but it is one more device in the Front where u want it clean. Also ust are designed for living rooms with high light output but bad Blacks. Also most dont have adjustable lenses and focus. So 21:9 screens are difficult to pair with them etc pp
tested both, i would buy the sony
What do you like best about the Sony that influenced your decision?
@@hatoraidcowboy it can be "complicated" to explain it as english is not my mother language. Currently i have an epson tw9400 (same as the 6050ub), had the ls12000 on loan for a week. It's definitely better in every aspect but not drastically better. then a friend of mine ( an av journalist) got the sony 5000 and 7000 for review, mesurement and calibration. we tested both in a big room on a 180" screen and the projectors were like 8-10 meters away. we were both speechless even for the 5000 and the performance it delived for the price, the brightness was ok but more than enough for most home cinemas. what you get instead is the best tone mapping and motion control i've ever seen in its price range, lastly the image out of the box was very good and required like 10 minutes of work to calibrate it to industry standards (the 7000 made me almost cry but that's another story and another budget as it's almost 3 times the price).
The Sony looks like what you'd get from a good LCD TV, While the Epson looks like a cheap movie theater screen to be honest.
LOL The Epson looks really good though! It just needs to be properly calibrated.
And they're the SAME price at Best Buy right now! :O
Dang for real?
the Epson looks like it has better potential than the Sony, with the brightness being one of the Sony's greatest downfalls in this demo
in contrast, color saturation and skin color, sony is better. in brightness, epson is better. because ls12000 is 2700 lumen and xw5000 is only 2000. But I am a sony fan.
hello out there
Have my 12000 calibrated now.
Calibration is worthwhile.The explosions, the fire looks vivid and dynamic as well as colorful. As it should, and as it is synonymous with the Sony. Epson doesn't have to hide from Sony when it comes to the black value either. Black is black. With the HDR controller you get a ratio of 1:2500000. The shades of the sky and the clouds also look realistic. Calibration costs 230 EURO.
Thanks for the input! Hopefully I can get mine calibrated at some point
@@hatoraidcowboy You just need
1. Calibrite ColorChecker Display Pro - 200 Bucks
2. A camera tripod - 30 Bucks
3. HCFR Software - Free over the internet
4. AVR Pictures - Free over the internet
There are plenty of instructional videos on TH-cam.
Have Fun
Sony is no Baloney!...Sony hands down...if you notice the black bars on letter box are not very black on the Epson....Sonys rule still.
Sony definitely has the better blacks.
I was torn between the Sony and the JVC....but decided to wait till next year to pull the trigger on hopefully lower prices...Decided to go with a Epson Pro 6050UB for now...2799.99 at Safe and Sound Electronics...Still hard to beat...even in 2024...BUT!..i WILL PULL THE TRIGGER ON A DISCOUNTED SONY 6000 LASER NEXT YEAR...(NO BALONEY)...:0)@@hatoraidcowboy
Some projectors look better out of the box like the Sony, some projector you need to be calibrated or at least tinker with in order to get a better picture, color accuracy, etc. which makes the question of "which is the superior projector" basically worthless, and does not help any projector buyer, who rarely buys a projector and uses it with out the box settings.
This was an out of the box comparison as I stated in the beginning of the video. It’s a starting point for people looking at both projectors.
Wow would i love that Sony, just wish it wasnt $5000 cause it would look damnnn good on my 120" screen
What are you using now?
@@hatoraidcowboy unfortunately just a optima 1080p projector I bought about 7 years ago
Hey, upgrades take time. Trust me I know LOL Keep saving and enjoy the journey 😃
Would never be able to afford that but one can wish lol@@hatoraidcowboy
Never say never sir LOL I said the same thing about my situation. Now I’m making it happen!
Neither. JVC
Sony is clearly the better one
Why do you believe the Sony is better?
@@hatoraidcowboy epson too bright.. Visuals Looks like an Over exposed video ..
@oblivion_007 That’s probably just coming through over YT. I actually prefer the higher brightness. The Epson is a lovely projector
I don t agree.
The Epson has the much better Kontrast, with avitect s master Contrast Tuning the Same very good black, and the better brightness. He make no noise, better optic. I don t See a difference between Naturel 4k or 4k Lensshift. Colors are very good on the Epson.
What about Contrast Drifting?
Sony also ist good, now cheaper than the Epson.
@@oblivion_007 Look for Avitect Epson Master Contrast Tuning.
With this Lens the Black Level goes deeper Black, and the Contrast between White and Black really ist the best!
After Calman Calibration the Brightness ist a little bit lower, but still is Top, but the Black Level ist deeper and No more Green or blue, but much more black babak.
Sony is sony thats it
Sony
This Sony's projector has such a bad design.
Why you say that? I quite like it.
This is a bad comparison you clearly were biased I knew you were going for Sony lol the projectors should have been set up beforehand. I would always go for the brightest like I would do the same for a TV
Wrong. I went with the Epson. After having both in my possession I ended up keeping the Epson. Brightness isnt everything when choosing a display. Only looking at brightness is the most biased thing you can do.
@@hatoraidcowboy You did say you were going to buy the Sony earlier on, and you were more into the Sony just by how you were speaking. No brightness is not just the be all end all type of thing. But the brighter, the better the all the colours. You made the best choice, lol
@chrisnbushell3938 Yes I did….I also said in the stand alone Epson review that I would buy the Epson lol
Sony has true 4k. Epson is much brighter. Neither do 3D. Don't waste your money, you could buy a 83 inch G3 oled and it would destroy any projector. I still have my JVC RS540. Hard to let it go with a native contrast ratio of 130,000 to 1. Even the most expensive laser projectors Don't have that yet.
Some people want projectors though. Nobody’s saying a projector can beat a television. For home theater I will always choose projection. Bigger & more immersive for much much less than a tv the same size of a 100” screen or bigger.
You won't see a TV any time soon in a dedicated HT room that needs at least a 120" size screen for better immersiveness, plus having an AT screen to place the LCR speakers behind will give you the best sound. Living rooms and family rooms with ambient light will benefit more with a TV.
Ummmm...but if you look at the beautiful 158" Cinemascope projection with my Epson LS12000, you wouldn't even consider a puny 83" TV to take its place. Different strokes. PS. Lens memory is amazing!
Right but how does a 83 inch OLED help me when my screen is 200 inches?
I think it was bad judgement to post a "shootout" video with two uncalibrated projectors. This is no help for
people researching these brands and can give misleading impressions and verdicts. Even though you state
that they are not calibrated, some may not understand the implications of this. You should replace this video
with a proper one. And it earns a thumbs down from me!
I wont be replacing the video. Video stays as intended to help people get a baseline. I have mutually thumbs down your comment!
You are correct this is bad, and I knew he was going for the Sony, I would go for the EPSON Brighter better
e' molto meglio l'epson quasi in tutte le scene....!!!!!
I do like the Epson 😁