So, what do you think? Do Andorians have four sexes? I tend to think they probably don't, and the explanation for the novels--while interesting--is mostly unnecessary. But who knows--new developments could change that! Also, even if I delve further into non-canon territory, would you like to see a video about the history of the Andorian Empire?
Data's vague reference to Andorian marriages requiring groups of four does not necessarily prove four seperate sexes. How many are required in a human marriage if you include some of the wedding party like best man, maid of honor, witnesses, the clergy performing the service, etc? The four sexes are merely a speculation introduced in non-canon books. Thank you for a more reasonable treatment of this subject than others. 😀
I've read quite a few of the post Dominion war DS9 novels, and there is an Andorian Science Officer that serves on the Defiant when it goes on a 6 month exploration/mapping mission in the Gamma Quadrant. They go real far into the Andorian 4 sex thing as it's like one of the ongoing B-story arcs throughout a couple of the series as the Science officer has to make a decision to go on this mission or rather take an extended leave of absence as it is time for his bondmates to have a kid and his decision triggers major drama, and to top it all off his mother is a major powerbroker on the Federation Council, so there is political blowback possible depending on his decision either way. I like how they handled it and it actually kind of made sense or at least was well thought out by the writers, and it actually made a main species actually alien like other than just cosmetically different. The series really fleshed out the species though, and gave a ton of background into Andorian society and how having a different mating system would effect their society. I would recommend the Pocketbook various DS9 series of novels for anyone that's a fan of Andorians, and yes I think they should make it cannon as it makes the Andorians really stand out as unique and different from other races which make them much more interesting to me, plus who doesnt want a load more cannon material to obsess over on one of the major players in the Federation!
I agree, the four sexes concept doesn't sound practical. It could be that andorian society has four well-established gender roles, in much the same way as human society has two gender roles that it promotes through hetero-normative western culture. To me, that makes more sense than four sexes (which would overcomplicate reproduction, even though it would make andorian offspring even more genetically diverse than humans, which is an advantage).
I play a Shen Starfleet doctor in a Star Trek RP group in Second Life. I also served as the Andorian ambassador for a number of years. We use the 4 gender beta cannon. It adds so much to the species.
Now I know how the fight between the Vulcans and the Andorians started. An Andorian and a Vulcan were working together in an office with one thermostat to control the temperature. The rest escalated from there.
"It's logical to set the temperature at the mid pint so we both experience the least discomfort "" I don't bloody care I'm hot as hell and you shoudnt mind if you've got no emtions" cue vulcans lack of ability to be diplomatic in the face of an emotional response
How do you think the Tholians feel then? also, there will be the first person to tell you" I really don't think you should be visiting those websites on the company Wi-Fi." 😂😂😂
I’ve always read they marry in groups of four, two males, two females, this grouping best ensures the survival of children in the harsh Andorian environment, all parents taking care of the children.
I do rather like the Last Unicorn Games' version mostly, except I think they got the courtship end a little wrong... I'd figure they just have more of a pack-bonding instinct than a particular pair-bonding one. Also it seems more likely for BFFs of one sex to court a pair of BFFs of another sex even if everyone involved happened to be straight. (But it's a system that'd also work fine even if everyone involved was gay :) (Except even more grannies wanting descendants, I guess. :) ) (And I thought the DS9 novels idea of four reproductive sexes both unnecessary and colonialist especially given there was whole plots premised on the thing that author made up needing a straight Human guy to 'fix' an older species by making them... like the dominant human culture. What a waste.) It'd be one thing to have four *gender* roles going on, but fixating on needing to make it *hard to breed* doesn't actually square with a harsh environment like Andoria. You'd expect that on a much more lush and biodiverse place maybe with more hazardous microbes. (Also that novel makes the whole thing seem sterile and soulless and clinical, and that doesn't square with such a 'passionate' species, either. At one point in a writing project I even had an Andorian take on Romeo and Juliet and it doesn't take much tweaking to have there be a Romeo and Mercutio and a maybe Juliet-maybe-knew Rosalind sort of thing, and then you got clan conflict and pointy things and yaknow... :) )
Enterprise did an Amazing job making me like the Andorans who being a founding member of the federation are criminally underutilized but also made me realise just how annoying the Vulcans can be
@@wingedfish1175 yeah it really took a while for me to warm up T'pol. I did like seeing the start of human vulcan relations but now I really want to see the Andorians as well. Also the always wonderful Jeffrey Combs really nailed it as always 👌
Andorians are the best aliens in Enterprise, and I don't like the way that Discovery change the look of them. Commander Shran played the Jeffrey Combs is a great character, his ability to bring him to life is amazing.
Every character played by Jeffrey Combs is amazing Also the total number of characters he has played on Trek is 7 (Weyoun, Brunt, Shran, Tiron, Penk, Krem, and Kevin Mulkahey) 8 if you include his voicing of Suldok in the video game Star Trek: Elite Force 2
I love the Andorians. One of the things that excited me, when I first heard about Enterprise, was the possibility to explore the early Federation and the founding species. I liked the bond formed between Archer and Shran. It's to bad this wasn't exploited more. We lost Enterprise far to soon.
Andorians are the primary reason I was crazy about Enterprise when many weren't. For me they are the most intriguing of any of the TV series aliens, and Enterprise really explored it better than any of the other superficial (in plot treatment and character development) appearances of Andorians in other series.
Would I recruit Andorians to serve on a Federation Starship? Of course! Why not? They're adaptable, and besides, they could adjust the environmental controls of their individual quarters to accommodate their comfort needs. Not to mention, access to holodecks, whenever they want, would help to make their assignment on board far more enjoyable. I don't really see any problem at all with having Andorians crew onboard a Starship. CHEERS! ✨🍻✨✌
@@flyingfoamtv2169, Oh, yeah. I understand. Likewise, human starships are usually a bit too cold for Vulcans, but there are still plenty of them serving on ships in Starfleet.
The Andorians are one of if not my most favorite aliens from Trek (Commander Shran steals the show every time he's on screen). Thank you very much for covering them! Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you friends! :)
Your garnering info from cannon and non-cannon sources is similar to any scientific research using texts from different ages. Good on you for weaving it all together into a narrative.
There's a fan theory going that we saw so little of the Andorians during the Dominion War because at that time they were all recalled to Andoria to alleviate a then current population crisis. As with such a complicated method of reproduction, such crises would likely be common if they did not maintain a pretty strict focus on reproduction.
I loved the Andorians in Enterprise. It was the best example of them and gave a better understanding of how the Vulcans couldn’t always be trusted. I was happy to see Hemmer and then saddened when he was killed off.
Suzie Plakson and Jeffrey Combes definitely brought more depth and life to the Andorians in Star Trek: Enterprise. I enjoyed their performances but Jeffrey was excellent in his portrayal of all his other alien characters.
Minor fun fact: Andor is also a Hungarian given name. Also this four-sex setup seems unnecessarily convoluted anda gigantic risk to the species from an evolutionary position.
i play an Andorian doctor. his bedside manner may leave something to be desired, but he is highly passionate about the safety and well being of his patients and his crew. Using his combat skills to help prevent his team from being injured, and should they get hurt anyway he’s proficient in getting them back up again
I don't believe that we have ever seen a half-Andorian in canon except for Shran's daughter, whose mother was an Aenar (an Andorian sub-species). That means that there is no certainty that they are the products of the Progenitors like many other species and may account for the lack of hybrids. The four sexes thing is more likely a reflection of the real world time period and American culture which found the idea of polyamory distasteful. So a biological explanation was invented to justify it, much like how they felt the need to attribute the gender fluidity of the Trill to the Symbiotes. In earlier ST series, there was a strong tendency to try to explain any kind of "alternative lifestyle" as being a result of alien biology.
@@rickjohnston2667 - That they are aliens is obvious. The issue was that they were being used to create the illusion that all Humans were cisgender heterosexuals. The same thing was the case with religion. ST Humans tended to be staunchly Atheist (especially in TNG and later). Religion was also an alien thing.
@@rickjohnston2667 I believe, respectfully, you are missing the point. This is a show written by humans, for humans, representing humans via aliens. Thus, it is representing who we really are. Everyone is not alike. People who are not entirely straight end up being represented as aliens, similarly to how inter-racial people are most often represented as inter-species hybrids, to explore how human differences exist in our reality. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. That is a ST precept, with which we mere humans have yet to come to terms.
@@rickjohnston2667the issue is the presumption that straight/cis people can be represented as human where any other kind of person is represented as an alien. autistic representation has a similar issue, the autistic character is an android or an alien. this assumes a neurotypical, straight, cis humanity where any deviation must be explored through alien allegory. don’t you think that might feel dehumanizing to people? when they only see people like themselves represented as aliens and robots, rather than human beings? can you not stretch your brain to understand why that might feel weird to people?
Very happy to see you touching on information from the novels definitely a favorite corner of the trek multiverse for me and one not enough people talk about
I always thought the explanation was that Andorians have four genders socially. Their fertilization process probably requires DNA equivalent from all four. That explains why they are referred to as him and her in standard speech. Andorians pick up the difference but to Humans there are two feminine types and two masculine types of Andorians really not distinguishable by others.
Thanks for this video. As an old school trekkie, Andorians have been a favourite since Reggie Nalders portrayal in the 60s. They are one of the things that makes Enterprise my second favourite Trek series. Ans still we've barely scratched the surface on understanding them.
A more realistic interpretation I have for the Andorians have 4 sexes thing, is that there are 2 sexes of Andorians and 2 sexes of the Andorian sub-species the Anar (if I spelled that right) introduced in Enterprise. And what Data is referring two is some societal and/or medical practice we don't know about aimed at increasing the population of the Anar.
I always liked the Andorians, especially with the brief view we got of Kirk's first officer Thelin in the TAS episode "Yesteryear" (not counting the Andorians in "Journey to Babel"). I always thought the antennae meant they had an insectoid biology. (In the TV series "Alien Nation," Newcomers required three individuals to reproduce, and the male carried the baby in a pouch, so four sexes isn't that much of a stretch.)
Ps. Enterprise was great and should have continued. Archer and Shran earned a great friendship. Shran is a great actor too. I think he was on Defiance also. Good Job.
To answer your question at the end of the video, I have an andorian as part of my bridge crew in Star Trek Online! Why? Because, aside from andorians being tragically under-represented in the overall Star Trek franchise, I also enjoy having a varied crew of aliens.
As a proud owner is an (officially) civilian cargo vessel serving with a minimal crew, I'm proud to have an Andorian chief engineer. Yes, she keeps the main engineering bay a little colder than what I'd like, but it's come in handy once or twice when... accosted. Her heightened senses offered by her antenna have come in handy on more than one occasion. She's quite passionate in her work, either singing or yelling as she maintains the ship. The times we've been boarded... Well, let's just say that I haven't worried about the engineering bay -- she fights with what some might call military precision, but those people would be silly. We're civilians. Always have been, always will be. The rest of her family are all actually graduates of that one art academy on Andor whose name I can never remember. While she didn't attend, her sculptures are simply sublime. They're quite popular with... certain kinds of traders in the more lawless spaces of the galaxy. Our favorite places to trade. Good latinum to be made there, of course. Where did a civilian ship get the weapons she maintains? Ah, now there's a story for another time...
I'd like to see them in a more prominent role in Star Trek similar to the Romulans, and Klingons. Perhaps after the Dominion war there is a vacuum that they fill. Or a war between the Andorians and the Breen breaks out.
@@flyingfoamtv2169 Unless it's an unofficial war. The Federation isn't willing to go to war with the Breen, but rogue Breen ships keep going after Andorian areas. So Andorians have to take care of it themselves. Species within the Federation have their own ships (like the Vulcans)...
I've often thought about Star Trek species in this way, trying to figure out how they might have come to be the way they are. The Preservers and the Progenitors mostly explain away a lot of the problems one might find, the way the Force does in Star Wars (I get the vibe that the Force, being a kind of intelligence, manipulates life to be more diverse and to live in more extreme environments than it might do left completely unguided). I find Andorians aesthetically the most interesting Star Trek species. Overall Vulcans are probably my favorite. I find Klingons too... inconsistent. Ezri Dax's take on the Klingon Empire pretty much nails it. Thanks for covering Andorians, I've always liked them - even the cheesy Original Series ones!
It seems to me that it would generally be easier to "program" instructions into existing genetic code than to form it from scratch. Planets with biospheres already have life - it's a crucial mechanism in "terraforming" them into habitable biomes - so it would be smarter to modify it than to erase and overwrite it with your own.
I wondered about that. There was a confusion to that based on some Episodes. I think Andorians are a great contributor to the living universe and I'd have them on ships. I feel the Aliens give the universe flavor=be boring if we were all the same. IT'S differences between us that Together Makes Us Strong and Strength Can Support Freedom. Thanks for Listening. Take Care.
Star Trek: Enterprise had that episode (Cogenitor) that specifically dealt with a species that had three sexes for reproduction. I can't believe, if Andorians indeed had four sexes, that the same series (Enterprise) that features them extensively would have nothing at all to say about it, especially with Shran and his daughter.
Depictions of third genders like Cogenitors on ST: Enterprise and the Binaums on Alien Nation seem to merely be one of the two genders with a slight difference that is required for successful mating between the other two. An alien species with more genders very different from each other would be interesting. The movie Evolution mentioned a triple helix DNA which might have required genetic material from three parents, but didn't go into details about the genders. I suspect requiring extra partners would be a disadvantage limiting reproduction.
Yeah...that species can't exist either. Sexual reproduction in the first place is almost too complicated to be viable. But, it still has a high-enough reproductive rate that it works. But once you add even one more gender into the mix, it all goes straight in the toilet. Even minor disasters could wipe out the species. . Asexual reproduction tends not to work because of its low genetic diversity, though. One thing goes wrong, and it gets them all the same. . A single-gender, sexually reproductive species that can both seed and gestate at the same time, would be the most optimal arrangement.
This thread is leaving out a very important aspect of the process, the Bonding. These are arranged in childhood. Thus, the genetics is all worked out decades ahead. There is no casual sex & oops! The concept is looked down upon in Andorian society, according to beta cannon sources. I think it makes sense. It shows the building of family dynamics & adds to the richness of the culture. We can't look at it from human norms. They are a distinct alien species.
I read in "The Good That Men Do" (the real story for the last episode and beyond of season 4) that Jhamel was the real one who was kidnapped, not a daughter yet. Still, was the little girl blind too? It seems that by the way T'Pol gently leads her to the shuttle, she is. I hated the way Shran tortured Shran to see if he coukd trust Soval, but Soval didn't get that angry at him.
A very cosmopolitan human captain would recruit Andorians into his crew. Plus a few more races. In the Star Trek Titan book series Captain Riker makes his ship the most diverse in Starfleet.
Personally, I think life on Andoria would evolve to produce natural antifreeze. We already have real life examples here on Earth. It just simply doesn't make sense otherwise, especially with protruding antennae that would easily get frostbitten without antifreeze.
@@JanetStarChild Antifreeze definitely helps, but certain enzymes are needed to regulate biological functions, most of which require some sort of ingoing heat. Most creatures living in these environments here on earth have separate circulatory systems, or little amounts of their main circulatory system leading into the more spindly appendages. Antifreeze is a necessity, but not leaving your circulatory system exposed is also one.
I want to see more Andorians in star trek. They are a very original alien as clear from the features you pointed out and I just want to learn more about them.
i would recruit as many different species as possible! variety is strength and diversity is survival. if you’re joining the federation, you must be eusocially related to it. if you’re acting as an officer, it’s more important that the whole federation survives, than it is that any one person or species survives. a diverse crew means diverse reactions to a survival situation, which increases chances of survival.
Other than the Memory Alpha article able the naming convention this makes more sense, the Enterprise novel merely described Shran being part of a four-person family (doesn't clarify if there's a gender difference or not) and it was stated in the first Prometheus novel that their breeding was creating challenges for reproduction. It became a plot point as the chief security officer was an Andorian (shen, I believe) who felt torn between returning to her people and staying aboard the Prometheus. According to the Memory Alpha article it made Andorians sound like the gender layout was almost; pure-male, herm-male, pure-female, and herm-female and other than the th', sh', ch', or zh' prefix there was little distinction between male or female even as this made the four-gendered system seem almost ridiculous as Data's comment was never fully explained besides stating "Andorian marriages usually involve four individuals" and could be taken any way
1. Agreed. Progenitors and Preservers get confused often. I dont understand why. 2. Progenitor dna could also have reached and defacto seeded Andorria by explorers of an ancient starfaring race that no longer exists. For example.... Vulcanoids. I know four groups of Vulcanoids. The Vulcans. The Romans. The Remans. The Mentokans ( I am uncertain of spelling... Mentarkans?...[ TTNG..." You are the Picard"])... But there could be others.
Definitely have andorians, their quarters can be kept at their optimal temperature. I remember Spock is a TOS episode saying that his quarters at 120F.
It's been established in Enterprise itself that Andorians can comfortably adapt to subzero conditions all the way up to nearly the boiling point of water, although this would mean losing about 10% of their overall body mass from persperation. Andorians are one of my favorite Star Trek races, originally because I'm Canadian and thoroughly enjoy the cold, too. But also because we had just never really got much about them. Shran and the other Imperial Guard is a very tiny part of the whole culture of the species. After all, not all humans are in Starfleet, and Starfleet is often the more exceptional of humans. My Star Trek role playing group has a bit of a running gag, that whenever the door to my Andorian doctor's quarters is opened, there's a sudden rush of air, and an immediate development of fog or mist from the temperature difference between the rooms. The other crew in the game who are familiar with my Andorian doctor also tend to visit their quarters with layers; one in particular arrives in a proper, plump parka and mittens.
Funnily enough, I was referred to this video after watching the progenitor scene. I think there's enough ambiguity in her statement -- that they seeded the primordial seas of many worlds-- to theorize that the seeding either could have been done over the course of much time, or that the planets they chose may have been different ages or in different states of development but have had only the beginnings of life and both been suitable.
although they had them appear on series and movies, I have never seen an Andorian Starfleet officer or crewman on any movie or series. it would be interesting to have one on a future series or movie
True but it still only requires two gametes to produce a new organism and all 36,000 sexes have identical gametophytes, so they're technically all different flavours of the same sex. Fungi have that huge number of sexes to prevent self-fertilisation as they mate whenever two mycellia meet. If the foursome weddings are more than just a cultural thing or a gender identity thing then it's more likely to be an example of sexual polymorphism than there being more than two types of gamete. If there was evolutionary advantage to more than two types of gamete i'd expect it to have evolved at least once on Earth given male and female gametes evolved independently more than once in nature. As gametes evolved before sexual organs did, any advantage gained from combining the genetic diversity of more than two parents is likely outweighed by the disadvantage of three or more free-swimming gametes of different types from different parents all managing to survive long enough surrounded by predators and environmental hazards to meet and produce a zygote. And while a third sex for carrying the zygote of the other two sexes could hypothetically arise later in evolution, it seems unlikely for a whole new kind of gamete to evolve after a species has become advanced enough for internal fertilisation to occur.
The Andy's are a very cool species ( no pun intended) I'm very glad to know more about their Culture and habitation and physiology .Very great Canon about them ; updated compared to the TOS.
Are Andorians rare in the Star Trek Universe, or just not on many worlds visited by humans? It seems they would be interested in working on Earth's polar icecaps and the Himalayas.
I was just thinking the other day that Archie comics actually make more sense if they were all Andorians. Archie is Thaan. Betty and Veronica are Shen and Zhen. And Reggie and Jughead are both Chan. ;)
I'd DEFINITELY recruit an Andorian, they're awesome. Who wouldn't want representatives of the Andorian Mining Consortium on their ship, those guys are badasses.
When I was a kid reading Star Trek books (after TOS ended but before the movies came out) I remember an Andorian first officer and a transporter chief, both in Star Fleet. I can't remember the book titles because it's been too long.
Speaking of convoluted reproduction, I'd like to see you cover the J'naii sometime. Though, I _do_ see the logic of having an (artificial?) incubator that both parties would transfer their gametes to.
I've always wondered how oxygen is produced on their Homeworld. I don't recall seeing plants in any of the episodes. Could it be produced by a breakdown of the water/ice that is present everywhere?
If they are there then there is also other lifeforms genius cant get a humanoid being the only life they had to evolve from something else earlier think it through
One of the foremost reasons i enjoyed enterprise was the opportunity to finally get to know this species through Jeffrey Combs' portrayal of Shran. I keep hoping the rest of Star trek series to come will bring Andorians with a similar fierceness to Shran on board. Though i realize the cost of cgi and other effects to make the atenni work as they Did on Enterprise was costly; It would be wonderful if one of these series would have a recurring role slotted out for an Andorian. Certainly we must be much closer to affordable miniaturized props that actors could use with something as slight as ear movements used to control atenni.
Andorians would make even better security officers than Klingons. Not to mention that they are pretty decent artists. It’s mentioned on DS9 that the Andorian Academy is one of the best art academy in the quadrant.
Given the length of time involved and the abundance of interstellar species in the Star Trek universe panspermia would cease to be a theory and would almost certainly be occurring constantly throughout the universe.
By the TNG era, it may depend on the class of ship how easy it is to accommodate range of environmental conditions. Ones like Galaxy or Nebula are massive, and could easily have large sections with special conditions for work/living areas of those with unique physiology but are also sizable populations in Federation, like it is so empty it is on the scale of multiple decks of the saucer section could be permanently configured for that. Especially ones like Andorians which pretty clearly could spend at least days of time in the human standard environment or harsher. Defiant or Nova class would probably have much more pressure to have a narrower pool of species to assign crew from. If nothing else it would be useful to at least have some engineering and science staff/areas that who preferer working at temps well below ideal for humans, and would also be useful for exploring/operating on surfaces of colder worlds.
Personally, I happen to really like the Andorians. Also, watching the silenced footage from Enterprise reminds me just how amazing a character actor Mr. Jeffrey Combs is. He deserves to star in his own series. Also, I would like to say the idea of the Andorians having four genders sounds like an idea made up by someone who doesn't understand biology. I'm very much a layperson when it comes to knowledge about the mechanics of biology, but the idea of a four gendered species evolving naturally beggars belief. The number of steps involved are considerable. First, life has to involve as single celled organisms. Then sexual reproduction has to evolve (it is possible that it would involve four genders from the outset, but that level of complexity seems unlikely to occur with such simple creatures, I would gather it would be a further step) involving male and female sexes. At some point both complex life has to evolve and some form of selection pressure must exist such that having four genders is an evolutionary advantage. Lastly, if Jennifer is a Shen why does she breasts and hips? It sounds like, based on what was noted in your video that she would not be carrying any fertilized egg to term. Moreover, the Zhen carry the developing zygote in a pouch, which likely means they don't experience a vaginal birth. So if a Shen isn't popping out babies, there's no reason to have child bearing hips or breasts as without a developing fetus that needs to eventually be fed when it's born, she's not going to be doing any nursing. Frankly, this entire four genders nonsense is completely stupid. The writers of Star Trek Lower Decks should've fucking ignored previously established canon and had Andorians come in male, female, and trans varieties. No need for four genders. It's a neat and interesting idea, but once put under even the most modest scrutiny, it completely falls apart. I will at least compliment the writer who came up with the roles for the four genders. it shows a really fertile imagination that should be nurtured. What I would suggest is making them three genders with Shen being contributing a third of the DNA of the offspring as well as carrying the baby to term. Another thing to consider is that if there are three genders contributing to Andorian offspring, then the encoding of their genetic information would have to be very different from any terrestrial life. At the very least, it would be impossible for them to have DNA as we understand it as their genetic encoding for gendered animals would have to exist in triad form in order for three genders to contribute genetic information to their offspring.
I like this well thought-out explanation--you bring up a lot of excellent points, IMO. I imagine that in Lower Decks season 3 we'll likely get more insight into Andorian biology since Jennifer and Mariner will be dating. My expectation is that they probably _won't_ go the four-sex route given its absurdities, but we'll see.
I agree your reasoning is well thought out. I'm recalling the series Alien Nation (Tenctonese) which had three sexes, and the semen-like catalyst from the second male sex (the Binnaum) was required before the sperm of the first male could fertilize the female's egg. The second male sex was much rarer and partnered with many couples when they wanted to have children. Without the second male, sex between couples was purely recreational. They also played with the pouch idea; after 3 months of growing, the fetus would exit the female and enter the father's pouch, where it would mature. A lot of fun for the actors to talk about how their breasts would swell and such. I don't recall, but I believe males only provided nourishment for the first month or so, and then the females took over breastfeeding. As for the 4th Andorian sex having a pouch and not contributing to the genetic makeup, that would not necessarily have to be the case. It is probable that during the maturation process that something similar to mitochondria transfer during the continuous fluid exchange. Plus, there has to be a payoff for the 4th sex to even participate, so implanting the young has to be a pleasurable process. The 4th sex is the host for the fetus to mature. Perhaps when birth nears, the 4th sex gets together again with the female, there's some oral sex as the 4th sex nears delivery that triggers the shen female to lactate with the Andorian version of milk, making the breasts a necessary feature; the 4th sex carries the young to term, but after that, their role is done. Alternatively, the shen female might simply nurse from the 4th sex to initiate lactation. This would make the shen females the caregivers after birth; without that -- there really is no reason for the females to have breasts. Although, too, large breasts might be a permanent feature, but shrink after her fertility cycle is over. Wider hips might not be only for giving birth but would provide the male better access for coupling and insemination. There are some options there. Four sexes would seriously curtail the reproduction rate and the circumstances by which future generations can be conceived. Nature tends to abhor expensive biological processes, and birth among the Andorians would be prohibitive -- unless more than one child is conceived at the same time. If the 4th sex is much larger in size, they could more easily accommodate twins or triplets, reducing the biological cost by rewarding to cost to procreate with more children for the effort. With the two sets of male DNA contributing to the process, all children would be fraternal, not identical siblings, especially if the female drops two or three eggs. Or, they could always be identical, with one egg splitting -- a requirement based on the 2nd male's contribution? This would allow cases of fertilization without the 2nd male contributing his portion, but limiting the birth to one child at a time. In humans, sperm can survive for up to five days. What if Andorian females can simply store the partially fertilized egg until later? Having the 2nd male sex be a "smaller and more wiry size" does not make sense unless the semen also has secondary functions in the fertilization process.
Jesus dude it a but harsh and not well thought out to claim the whole idea is stupid based on one charecter having breasts and hips for reasons that may be entirely different from human physiology, they aligned we literally have no idea how they work internally
@@wingedfish1175 The way I see it is that biology is really messy. The way DNA is encoded is imperfect with mutations being rife. Also, requiring four sexes for reproduction adds a degree of complexity that I find unlikely that selection pressure will favor. There would have to be a massive survival advantage to having four sexes to reproduce.
Re: having 4 sexes in Andorian reproductive biology - I'm reminded of the TV series "Alien Nation", where the Newcomers had 3 sexes. The third sex (generally male in appearance) was known as the Binnaum, and while sterile themselves, they were necessary to catalyze a pregnancy. They were also not traditionally allowed to marry or form a pair bond, which comes up in one episode. Perhaps one sex of Andorians performed such a role - not adding genetic material, but necessary to enhance fertility and/or to ensure pregnancy.
It looks like if you have more than 2 sexes. Genders rolls and expectations, along with discrimination are reduced. I enjoyed Alien Nation. (Series and movie)
lol.. love that you think about this. I think Andorians were sympathetically treated in the Enterprise Series... and I liked that. Don't know about the 4 sexes... but it does bring to mind that complicated family connections could lead to un for seen consequences good and bad in dealing with an alien race. I would love to see more on interbreeding with these different species. Just how could that work? I could see some relationships may be childless... but we know some have produced offspring like Spock and a gal ( sorry forgot name ) that was part Klingon I probably mentioned this before.. but I think Dick Tracy's Moon Maid influenced the Andorian look. Basically she looked the same but with tan skin. She came out in 64 I think. Thanks for your research and discussion.
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So, what do you think? Do Andorians have four sexes? I tend to think they probably don't, and the explanation for the novels--while interesting--is mostly unnecessary. But who knows--new developments could change that!
Also, even if I delve further into non-canon territory, would you like to see a video about the history of the Andorian Empire?
Data's vague reference to Andorian marriages requiring groups of four does not necessarily prove four seperate sexes. How many are required in a human marriage if you include some of the wedding party like best man, maid of honor, witnesses, the clergy performing the service, etc? The four sexes are merely a speculation introduced in non-canon books. Thank you for a more reasonable treatment of this subject than others. 😀
That would be great... always fascinated by the Andorians!
I've read quite a few of the post Dominion war DS9 novels, and there is an Andorian Science Officer that serves on the Defiant when it goes on a 6 month exploration/mapping mission in the Gamma Quadrant.
They go real far into the Andorian 4 sex thing as it's like one of the ongoing B-story arcs throughout a couple of the series as the Science officer has to make a decision to go on this mission or rather take an extended leave of absence as it is time for his bondmates to have a kid and his decision triggers major drama, and to top it all off his mother is a major powerbroker on the Federation Council, so there is political blowback possible depending on his decision either way.
I like how they handled it and it actually kind of made sense or at least was well thought out by the writers, and it actually made a main species actually alien like other than just cosmetically different.
The series really fleshed out the species though, and gave a ton of background into Andorian society and how having a different mating system would effect their society.
I would recommend the Pocketbook various DS9 series of novels for anyone that's a fan of Andorians, and yes I think they should make it cannon as it makes the Andorians really stand out as unique and different from other races which make them much more interesting to me, plus who doesnt want a load more cannon material to obsess over on one of the major players in the Federation!
I agree, the four sexes concept doesn't sound practical.
It could be that andorian society has four well-established gender roles, in much the same way as human society has two gender roles that it promotes through hetero-normative western culture. To me, that makes more sense than four sexes (which would overcomplicate reproduction, even though it would make andorian offspring even more genetically diverse than humans, which is an advantage).
I play a Shen Starfleet doctor in a Star Trek RP group in Second Life. I also served as the Andorian ambassador for a number of years. We use the 4 gender beta cannon. It adds so much to the species.
Now I know how the fight between the Vulcans and the Andorians started. An Andorian and a Vulcan were working together in an office with one thermostat to control the temperature. The rest escalated from there.
"It's logical to set the temperature at the mid pint so we both experience the least discomfort "" I don't bloody care I'm hot as hell and you shoudnt mind if you've got no emtions" cue vulcans lack of ability to be diplomatic in the face of an emotional response
How do you think the Tholians feel then? also, there will be the first person to tell you" I really don't think you should be visiting those websites on the company Wi-Fi." 😂😂😂
I’ve always read they marry in groups of four, two males, two females, this grouping best ensures the survival of children in the harsh Andorian environment, all parents taking care of the children.
I love the plait of hair from each bondnate. I designed a statue that has 4 bondmates standing in a circle holding the plait of hair in the center.
I do rather like the Last Unicorn Games' version mostly, except I think they got the courtship end a little wrong... I'd figure they just have more of a pack-bonding instinct than a particular pair-bonding one. Also it seems more likely for BFFs of one sex to court a pair of BFFs of another sex even if everyone involved happened to be straight. (But it's a system that'd also work fine even if everyone involved was gay :) (Except even more grannies wanting descendants, I guess. :) ) (And I thought the DS9 novels idea of four reproductive sexes both unnecessary and colonialist especially given there was whole plots premised on the thing that author made up needing a straight Human guy to 'fix' an older species by making them... like the dominant human culture. What a waste.)
It'd be one thing to have four *gender* roles going on, but fixating on needing to make it *hard to breed* doesn't actually square with a harsh environment like Andoria. You'd expect that on a much more lush and biodiverse place maybe with more hazardous microbes. (Also that novel makes the whole thing seem sterile and soulless and clinical, and that doesn't square with such a 'passionate' species, either. At one point in a writing project I even had an Andorian take on Romeo and Juliet and it doesn't take much tweaking to have there be a Romeo and Mercutio and a maybe Juliet-maybe-knew Rosalind sort of thing, and then you got clan conflict and pointy things and yaknow... :) )
Enterprise did a great job with the andorians to the point I like them almost as much as the vulcans! Star trek should do more with them.
Enterprise did an Amazing job making me like the Andorans who being a founding member of the federation are criminally underutilized but also made me realise just how annoying the Vulcans can be
@@wingedfish1175 yeah it really took a while for me to warm up T'pol. I did like seeing the start of human vulcan relations but now I really want to see the Andorians as well.
Also the always wonderful Jeffrey Combs really nailed it as always 👌
I agree. I loved the antenna reaction to alcohol.
Andorians are the best aliens in Enterprise, and I don't like the way that Discovery change the look of them. Commander Shran played the Jeffrey Combs is a great character, his ability to bring him to life is amazing.
@@sabin97 Totally agree
Most creíble aliens in Star Trek. LH
I don’t mind Discovery changing them they are actually awesome the culture is amazing and having four sexes makes them even better
@@sabin97 Agreed. I think it might be closer to five characters
Every character played by Jeffrey Combs is amazing
Also the total number of characters he has played on Trek is 7 (Weyoun, Brunt, Shran, Tiron, Penk, Krem, and Kevin Mulkahey) 8 if you include his voicing of Suldok in the video game Star Trek: Elite Force 2
I love the Andorians. One of the things that excited me, when I first heard about Enterprise, was the possibility to explore the early Federation and the founding species. I liked the bond formed between Archer and Shran. It's to bad this wasn't exploited more. We lost Enterprise far to soon.
Andorians are the primary reason I was crazy about Enterprise when many weren't. For me they are the most intriguing of any of the TV series aliens, and Enterprise really explored it better than any of the other superficial (in plot treatment and character development) appearances of Andorians in other series.
Would I recruit Andorians to serve on a Federation Starship? Of course! Why not? They're adaptable, and besides, they could adjust the environmental controls of their individual quarters to accommodate their comfort needs.
Not to mention, access to holodecks, whenever they want, would help to make their assignment on board far more enjoyable.
I don't really see any problem at all with having Andorians crew onboard a Starship.
CHEERS! ✨🍻✨✌
he ment, that predominatly human starships are to hot for andorians to be comfortable on for a five year mission.
@@flyingfoamtv2169, Oh, yeah. I understand. Likewise, human starships are usually a bit too cold for Vulcans, but there are still plenty of them serving on ships in Starfleet.
They can wear a suit that keeps they cold at all times.
The Andorians are one of if not my most favorite aliens from Trek (Commander Shran steals the show every time he's on screen). Thank you very much for covering them!
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you friends! :)
Your garnering info from cannon and non-cannon sources is similar to any scientific research using texts from different ages. Good on you for weaving it all together into a narrative.
One thing I do know: Shran is an absolute chad
There's a fan theory going that we saw so little of the Andorians during the Dominion War because at that time they were all recalled to Andoria to alleviate a then current population crisis. As with such a complicated method of reproduction, such crises would likely be common if they did not maintain a pretty strict focus on reproduction.
I always love your scientific and rational/logical approach.
Andorians are one of my favorite Star Trek aliens. The list have Vulcans, Bajorians, Trill, and Klingons.
I know they were the bad guys, but I like the Changelings.
I loved the Andorians in Enterprise. It was the best example of them and gave a better understanding of how the Vulcans couldn’t always be trusted. I was happy to see Hemmer and then saddened when he was killed off.
Andorians are awesome. One of the best species in Star Trek and has a vibrant culture, although we haven't seen enough of it in Discovery
I think Jeffrey Alan Combs played that role exceptionally well! He breathed so much life into that character, it's almost scary...
Recruit an Andorian? Yes, if they're like Shran in would be an interesting mission
Oh hell yeah that man Jeffrey Combs who played him got me into the andorian race I'm a huge fan of them
Whales are highly adapted aquatic animals.
They aren't fish however.
Being well suited your environment is no indicator of species age.
Suzie Plakson and Jeffrey Combes definitely brought more depth and life to the Andorians in Star Trek: Enterprise. I enjoyed their performances but Jeffrey was excellent in his portrayal of all his other alien characters.
I would take an Andorian but I would also take a Vulkan as well. I would use their opposing counsel to make sure that I don’t mess up.
Best trek channel out there love these videos keep up the great work!
Minor fun fact: Andor is also a Hungarian given name. Also this four-sex setup seems unnecessarily convoluted anda gigantic risk to the species from an evolutionary position.
i play an Andorian doctor. his bedside manner may leave something to be desired, but he is highly passionate about the safety and well being of his patients and his crew. Using his combat skills to help prevent his team from being injured, and should they get hurt anyway he’s proficient in getting them back up again
Playing an Andorian Medical officer in Star Trek Adventures more than a year now and I really love the depth this species gives me to roleplay :)
I don't believe that we have ever seen a half-Andorian in canon except for Shran's daughter, whose mother was an Aenar (an Andorian sub-species). That means that there is no certainty that they are the products of the Progenitors like many other species and may account for the lack of hybrids. The four sexes thing is more likely a reflection of the real world time period and American culture which found the idea of polyamory distasteful. So a biological explanation was invented to justify it, much like how they felt the need to attribute the gender fluidity of the Trill to the Symbiotes. In earlier ST series, there was a strong tendency to try to explain any kind of "alternative lifestyle" as being a result of alien biology.
And what's wrong with that? Alien biology makes them seem more alien.
@@rickjohnston2667 - That they are aliens is obvious. The issue was that they were being used to create the illusion that all Humans were cisgender heterosexuals. The same thing was the case with religion. ST Humans tended to be staunchly Atheist (especially in TNG and later). Religion was also an alien thing.
@@rickjohnston2667 I believe, respectfully, you are missing the point. This is a show written by humans, for humans, representing humans via aliens. Thus, it is representing who we really are. Everyone is not alike. People who are not entirely straight end up being represented as aliens, similarly to how inter-racial people are most often represented as inter-species hybrids, to explore how human differences exist in our reality. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. That is a ST precept, with which we mere humans have yet to come to terms.
@@rickjohnston2667the issue is the presumption that straight/cis people can be represented as human where any other kind of person is represented as an alien. autistic representation has a similar issue, the autistic character is an android or an alien. this assumes a neurotypical, straight, cis humanity where any deviation must be explored through alien allegory.
don’t you think that might feel dehumanizing to people? when they only see people like themselves represented as aliens and robots, rather than human beings? can you not stretch your brain to understand why that might feel weird to people?
Very happy to see you touching on information from the novels definitely a favorite corner of the trek multiverse for me and one not enough people talk about
This was indeed fascinating. Very intelligent and thorough narration. Great visuals as well. Love this presentation.
I always thought the explanation was that Andorians have four genders socially. Their fertilization process probably requires DNA equivalent from all four. That explains why they are referred to as him and her in standard speech. Andorians pick up the difference but to Humans there are two feminine types and two masculine types of Andorians really not distinguishable by others.
Discovered u recently...can't get enough!....thanx Kate...massive treky xxx
Thanks for this video. As an old school trekkie, Andorians have been a favourite since Reggie Nalders portrayal in the 60s. They are one of the things that makes Enterprise my second favourite Trek series. Ans still we've barely scratched the surface on understanding them.
A more realistic interpretation I have for the Andorians have 4 sexes thing, is that there are 2 sexes of Andorians and 2 sexes of the Andorian sub-species the Anar (if I spelled that right) introduced in Enterprise. And what Data is referring two is some societal and/or medical practice we don't know about aimed at increasing the population of the Anar.
@@nerdygerdy that would make more sense than my idea.
@@nerdygerdy I second that motion!!
Aenar
No, Aenar were established in cannon as being rumor until recently. Shran says most have never seen an Aenar.
I always liked the Andorians, especially with the brief view we got of Kirk's first officer Thelin in the TAS episode "Yesteryear" (not counting the Andorians in "Journey to Babel"). I always thought the antennae meant they had an insectoid biology. (In the TV series "Alien Nation," Newcomers required three individuals to reproduce, and the male carried the baby in a pouch, so four sexes isn't that much of a stretch.)
no no no, the all have 4 "exs" thats why their always so hostile
THEY'RE* (they + are = they're)
"...why *_they're_* always..."
@@customfantasyhotwheels dude, take your grammer nazi bullshit some where else......
Ps. Enterprise was great and should have continued. Archer and Shran earned a great friendship. Shran is a great actor too. I think he was on Defiance also. Good Job.
@Rich Turner: Shran was an Andorian character, not an actor. The actor who played Shran was Jeffrey Combs. 🙄
I always liked the Andorians. After Enterprise they became my favourite race.
I honestly don't know how I got here but this is certainly more interesting than any of the material from my actual courses
Jeffry Combs must love Star Trek because he's been nearly every species in the show.
To answer your question at the end of the video, I have an andorian as part of my bridge crew in Star Trek Online! Why? Because, aside from andorians being tragically under-represented in the overall Star Trek franchise, I also enjoy having a varied crew of aliens.
You forgot to tell about their weakness against phaser wounds and the impossibility to give them intravenous injections
As a proud owner is an (officially) civilian cargo vessel serving with a minimal crew, I'm proud to have an Andorian chief engineer. Yes, she keeps the main engineering bay a little colder than what I'd like, but it's come in handy once or twice when... accosted. Her heightened senses offered by her antenna have come in handy on more than one occasion. She's quite passionate in her work, either singing or yelling as she maintains the ship. The times we've been boarded... Well, let's just say that I haven't worried about the engineering bay -- she fights with what some might call military precision, but those people would be silly. We're civilians. Always have been, always will be. The rest of her family are all actually graduates of that one art academy on Andor whose name I can never remember. While she didn't attend, her sculptures are simply sublime. They're quite popular with... certain kinds of traders in the more lawless spaces of the galaxy. Our favorite places to trade. Good latinum to be made there, of course.
Where did a civilian ship get the weapons she maintains? Ah, now there's a story for another time...
man glad i found your channel! you make great videos and as a trek super nerd i love it!
I'd like to see them in a more prominent role in Star Trek similar to the Romulans, and Klingons. Perhaps after the Dominion war there is a vacuum that they fill. Or a war between the Andorians and the Breen breaks out.
that would just be a breen federation war, because the andorians are members of the federation.
@@flyingfoamtv2169 Unless it's an unofficial war. The Federation isn't willing to go to war with the Breen, but rogue Breen ships keep going after Andorian areas. So Andorians have to take care of it themselves. Species within the Federation have their own ships (like the Vulcans)...
Very fascinating and intriguing outstanding entertainment experience! 🖖🏼
I've often thought about Star Trek species in this way, trying to figure out how they might have come to be the way they are. The Preservers and the Progenitors mostly explain away a lot of the problems one might find, the way the Force does in Star Wars (I get the vibe that the Force, being a kind of intelligence, manipulates life to be more diverse and to live in more extreme environments than it might do left completely unguided).
I find Andorians aesthetically the most interesting Star Trek species. Overall Vulcans are probably my favorite. I find Klingons too... inconsistent. Ezri Dax's take on the Klingon Empire pretty much nails it. Thanks for covering Andorians, I've always liked them - even the cheesy Original Series ones!
It seems to me that it would generally be easier to "program" instructions into existing genetic code than to form it from scratch. Planets with biospheres already have life - it's a crucial mechanism in "terraforming" them into habitable biomes - so it would be smarter to modify it than to erase and overwrite it with your own.
Their genders are so complicated that Shran even turned into a Vorta later.
I wondered about that. There was a confusion to that based on some Episodes. I think Andorians are a great contributor to the living universe and I'd have them on ships. I feel the Aliens give the universe flavor=be boring if we were all the same. IT'S differences between us that Together Makes Us Strong and Strength Can Support Freedom. Thanks for Listening. Take Care.
Star Trek: Enterprise had that episode (Cogenitor) that specifically dealt with a species that had three sexes for reproduction.
I can't believe, if Andorians indeed had four sexes, that the same series (Enterprise) that features them extensively would have nothing at all to say about it, especially with Shran and his daughter.
Depictions of third genders like Cogenitors on ST: Enterprise and the Binaums on Alien Nation seem to merely be one of the two genders with a slight difference that is required for successful mating between the other two. An alien species with more genders very different from each other would be interesting. The movie Evolution mentioned a triple helix DNA which might have required genetic material from three parents, but didn't go into details about the genders. I suspect requiring extra partners would be a disadvantage limiting reproduction.
Yeah...that species can't exist either. Sexual reproduction in the first place is almost too complicated to be viable. But, it still has a high-enough reproductive rate that it works. But once you add even one more gender into the mix, it all goes straight in the toilet. Even minor disasters could wipe out the species.
.
Asexual reproduction tends not to work because of its low genetic diversity, though. One thing goes wrong, and it gets them all the same.
.
A single-gender, sexually reproductive species that can both seed and gestate at the same time, would be the most optimal arrangement.
This thread is leaving out a very important aspect of the process, the Bonding. These are arranged in childhood. Thus, the genetics is all worked out decades ahead. There is no casual sex & oops! The concept is looked down upon in Andorian society, according to beta cannon sources.
I think it makes sense. It shows the building of family dynamics & adds to the richness of the culture. We can't look at it from human norms. They are a distinct alien species.
I read in "The Good That Men Do" (the real story for the last episode and beyond of season 4) that Jhamel was the real one who was kidnapped, not a daughter yet. Still, was the little girl blind too? It seems that by the way T'Pol gently leads her to the shuttle, she is. I hated the way Shran tortured Shran to see if he coukd trust Soval, but Soval didn't get that angry at him.
Is there any audiobooks about the Andorians?
I've been searching all day without luck.
If NOT someone should absolutely write one, NOW! ❤ 🇸🇪
A very cosmopolitan human captain would recruit Andorians into his crew. Plus a few more races. In the Star Trek Titan book series Captain Riker makes his ship the most diverse in Starfleet.
That would make a very competent crew
Excellent video 🛸
5:20 Wouldn't blood pooling closer to the surface of their skin just make them feel warm, but actually dissipate the heat faster?
Personally, I think life on Andoria would evolve to produce natural antifreeze. We already have real life examples here on Earth. It just simply doesn't make sense otherwise, especially with protruding antennae that would easily get frostbitten without antifreeze.
@@JanetStarChild Antifreeze definitely helps, but certain enzymes are needed to regulate biological functions, most of which require some sort of ingoing heat. Most creatures living in these environments here on earth have separate circulatory systems, or little amounts of their main circulatory system leading into the more spindly appendages. Antifreeze is a necessity, but not leaving your circulatory system exposed is also one.
It would protect their skin and extremities from the cold, but it would make them more susceptible to hypothermia.
Hells ya they'd be on my ship for sure. And im a crazy Canadian pink skin, id request a posting on and Andorian Vessel, cold never bothered me.
I want to see more Andorians in star trek. They are a very original alien as clear from the features you pointed out and I just want to learn more about them.
Blessings from the most high
Enterprise made me love Andorians. I would absolutely welcome them to my crew!
What a cool video!
Thank you for this I have always been intrigued by the AndoriansIts great to learn more about them
i would recruit as many different species as possible! variety is strength and diversity is survival. if you’re joining the federation, you must be eusocially related to it. if you’re acting as an officer, it’s more important that the whole federation survives, than it is that any one person or species survives.
a diverse crew means diverse reactions to a survival situation, which increases chances of survival.
Andorians are my favorite species in Star Trek universe, with vulcans. Nice video, thank you!
Other than the Memory Alpha article able the naming convention this makes more sense, the Enterprise novel merely described Shran being part of a four-person family (doesn't clarify if there's a gender difference or not) and it was stated in the first Prometheus novel that their breeding was creating challenges for reproduction. It became a plot point as the chief security officer was an Andorian (shen, I believe) who felt torn between returning to her people and staying aboard the Prometheus. According to the Memory Alpha article it made Andorians sound like the gender layout was almost; pure-male, herm-male, pure-female, and herm-female and other than the th', sh', ch', or zh' prefix there was little distinction between male or female even as this made the four-gendered system seem almost ridiculous as Data's comment was never fully explained besides stating "Andorian marriages usually involve four individuals" and could be taken any way
1. Agreed. Progenitors and Preservers get confused often. I dont understand why.
2. Progenitor dna could also have reached and defacto seeded Andorria by explorers of an ancient starfaring race that no longer exists.
For example.... Vulcanoids. I know four groups of Vulcanoids. The Vulcans. The Romans. The Remans. The Mentokans ( I am uncertain of spelling... Mentarkans?...[ TTNG..." You are the Picard"])... But there could be others.
Shran was a great character wonderfully brought to life by Mr. Jeffery Combs
Definitely have andorians, their quarters can be kept at their optimal temperature. I remember Spock is a TOS episode saying that his quarters at 120F.
It's been established in Enterprise itself that Andorians can comfortably adapt to subzero conditions all the way up to nearly the boiling point of water, although this would mean losing about 10% of their overall body mass from persperation.
Andorians are one of my favorite Star Trek races, originally because I'm Canadian and thoroughly enjoy the cold, too. But also because we had just never really got much about them. Shran and the other Imperial Guard is a very tiny part of the whole culture of the species. After all, not all humans are in Starfleet, and Starfleet is often the more exceptional of humans.
My Star Trek role playing group has a bit of a running gag, that whenever the door to my Andorian doctor's quarters is opened, there's a sudden rush of air, and an immediate development of fog or mist from the temperature difference between the rooms. The other crew in the game who are familiar with my Andorian doctor also tend to visit their quarters with layers; one in particular arrives in a proper, plump parka and mittens.
Love the Andorians
they are certainly the most human like with the way they relate and express themselves
Woo hoo a new video!!
If anyone likes detailed aliens, even anatomy, read James White's Sector General series from decades ago. Quite good.
Funnily enough, I was referred to this video after watching the progenitor scene. I think there's enough ambiguity in her statement -- that they seeded the primordial seas of many worlds-- to theorize that the seeding either could have been done over the course of much time, or that the planets they chose may have been different ages or in different states of development but have had only the beginnings of life and both been suitable.
Jeffrey Combs, the Reanimator, played the best Andorian.
although they had them appear on series and movies, I have never seen an Andorian Starfleet officer or crewman on any movie or series. it would be interesting to have one on a future series or movie
Fungi can have up to 36,000 sexes. Our imagination has been wildly outstripped by reality.
True but it still only requires two gametes to produce a new organism and all 36,000 sexes have identical gametophytes, so they're technically all different flavours of the same sex. Fungi have that huge number of sexes to prevent self-fertilisation as they mate whenever two mycellia meet.
If the foursome weddings are more than just a cultural thing or a gender identity thing then it's more likely to be an example of sexual polymorphism than there being more than two types of gamete. If there was evolutionary advantage to more than two types of gamete i'd expect it to have evolved at least once on Earth given male and female gametes evolved independently more than once in nature. As gametes evolved before sexual organs did, any advantage gained from combining the genetic diversity of more than two parents is likely outweighed by the disadvantage of three or more free-swimming gametes of different types from different parents all managing to survive long enough surrounded by predators and environmental hazards to meet and produce a zygote.
And while a third sex for carrying the zygote of the other two sexes could hypothetically arise later in evolution, it seems unlikely for a whole new kind of gamete to evolve after a species has become advanced enough for internal fertilisation to occur.
So that is why they milk those crabs! Andorians run the show guys spread the word.
The Andy's are a very cool species ( no pun intended) I'm very glad to know more about their Culture and habitation and physiology .Very great Canon about them ; updated compared to the TOS.
Are Andorians rare in the Star Trek Universe, or just not on many worlds visited by humans? It seems they would be interested in working on Earth's polar icecaps and the Himalayas.
I was just thinking the other day that Archie comics actually make more sense if they were all Andorians. Archie is Thaan. Betty and Veronica are Shen and Zhen. And Reggie and Jughead are both Chan. ;)
If I had an open position on my ship and an interested Andorian were a good fit for it, hell yeah I'd totally recruit that blue skin
I'd DEFINITELY recruit an Andorian, they're awesome. Who wouldn't want representatives of the Andorian Mining Consortium on their ship, those guys are badasses.
When I was a kid reading Star Trek books (after TOS ended but before the movies came out) I remember an Andorian first officer and a transporter chief, both in Star Fleet. I can't remember the book titles because it's been too long.
The 4 required Andorians could be simple. The Bride, the Groom, the Priest/Wedding Official, and a witness.
Speaking of convoluted reproduction, I'd like to see you cover the J'naii sometime.
Though, I _do_ see the logic of having an (artificial?) incubator that both parties would transfer their gametes to.
"Shran!? What are you doing here?" "It's the season finale, Pinkskin. Where else would I be?"
There are four sexes!
-Picard probably.
I've always wondered how oxygen is produced on their Homeworld. I don't recall seeing plants in any of the episodes. Could it be produced by a breakdown of the water/ice that is present everywhere?
Maybe it comes from algae growing on rocks and ice.
Perhaps the increased uv light causes chemical reactions that produce free oxygen?
If they are there then there is also other lifeforms genius cant get a humanoid being the only life they had to evolve from something else earlier think it through
One of the foremost reasons i enjoyed enterprise was the opportunity to finally get to know this species through Jeffrey Combs' portrayal of Shran. I keep hoping the rest of Star trek series to come will bring Andorians with a similar fierceness to Shran on board. Though i realize the cost of cgi and other effects to make the atenni work as they Did on Enterprise was costly; It would be wonderful if one of these series would have a recurring role slotted out for an Andorian. Certainly we must be much closer to affordable miniaturized props that actors could use with something as slight as ear movements used to control atenni.
Andorians would make even better security officers than Klingons. Not to mention that they are pretty decent artists. It’s mentioned on DS9 that the Andorian Academy is one of the best art academy in the quadrant.
This would be fun to watch them do😮
Given the length of time involved and the abundance of interstellar species in the Star Trek universe panspermia would cease to be a theory and would almost certainly be occurring constantly throughout the universe.
By the TNG era, it may depend on the class of ship how easy it is to accommodate range of environmental conditions. Ones like Galaxy or Nebula are massive, and could easily have large sections with special conditions for work/living areas of those with unique physiology but are also sizable populations in Federation, like it is so empty it is on the scale of multiple decks of the saucer section could be permanently configured for that. Especially ones like Andorians which pretty clearly could spend at least days of time in the human standard environment or harsher. Defiant or Nova class would probably have much more pressure to have a narrower pool of species to assign crew from.
If nothing else it would be useful to at least have some engineering and science staff/areas that who preferer working at temps well below ideal for humans, and would also be useful for exploring/operating on surfaces of colder worlds.
Personally, I happen to really like the Andorians. Also, watching the silenced footage from Enterprise reminds me just how amazing a character actor Mr. Jeffrey Combs is. He deserves to star in his own series. Also, I would like to say the idea of the Andorians having four genders sounds like an idea made up by someone who doesn't understand biology.
I'm very much a layperson when it comes to knowledge about the mechanics of biology, but the idea of a four gendered species evolving naturally beggars belief. The number of steps involved are considerable. First, life has to involve as single celled organisms. Then sexual reproduction has to evolve (it is possible that it would involve four genders from the outset, but that level of complexity seems unlikely to occur with such simple creatures, I would gather it would be a further step) involving male and female sexes. At some point both complex life has to evolve and some form of selection pressure must exist such that having four genders is an evolutionary advantage.
Lastly, if Jennifer is a Shen why does she breasts and hips? It sounds like, based on what was noted in your video that she would not be carrying any fertilized egg to term. Moreover, the Zhen carry the developing zygote in a pouch, which likely means they don't experience a vaginal birth. So if a Shen isn't popping out babies, there's no reason to have child bearing hips or breasts as without a developing fetus that needs to eventually be fed when it's born, she's not going to be doing any nursing.
Frankly, this entire four genders nonsense is completely stupid. The writers of Star Trek Lower Decks should've fucking ignored previously established canon and had Andorians come in male, female, and trans varieties. No need for four genders. It's a neat and interesting idea, but once put under even the most modest scrutiny, it completely falls apart. I will at least compliment the writer who came up with the roles for the four genders. it shows a really fertile imagination that should be nurtured.
What I would suggest is making them three genders with Shen being contributing a third of the DNA of the offspring as well as carrying the baby to term. Another thing to consider is that if there are three genders contributing to Andorian offspring, then the encoding of their genetic information would have to be very different from any terrestrial life. At the very least, it would be impossible for them to have DNA as we understand it as their genetic encoding for gendered animals would have to exist in triad form in order for three genders to contribute genetic information to their offspring.
I like this well thought-out explanation--you bring up a lot of excellent points, IMO. I imagine that in Lower Decks season 3 we'll likely get more insight into Andorian biology since Jennifer and Mariner will be dating. My expectation is that they probably _won't_ go the four-sex route given its absurdities, but we'll see.
I agree your reasoning is well thought out.
I'm recalling the series Alien Nation (Tenctonese) which had three sexes, and the semen-like catalyst from the second male sex (the Binnaum) was required before the sperm of the first male could fertilize the female's egg. The second male sex was much rarer and partnered with many couples when they wanted to have children. Without the second male, sex between couples was purely recreational. They also played with the pouch idea; after 3 months of growing, the fetus would exit the female and enter the father's pouch, where it would mature. A lot of fun for the actors to talk about how their breasts would swell and such. I don't recall, but I believe males only provided nourishment for the first month or so, and then the females took over breastfeeding.
As for the 4th Andorian sex having a pouch and not contributing to the genetic makeup, that would not necessarily have to be the case. It is probable that during the maturation process that something similar to mitochondria transfer during the continuous fluid exchange. Plus, there has to be a payoff for the 4th sex to even participate, so implanting the young has to be a pleasurable process. The 4th sex is the host for the fetus to mature. Perhaps when birth nears, the 4th sex gets together again with the female, there's some oral sex as the 4th sex nears delivery that triggers the shen female to lactate with the Andorian version of milk, making the breasts a necessary feature; the 4th sex carries the young to term, but after that, their role is done. Alternatively, the shen female might simply nurse from the 4th sex to initiate lactation. This would make the shen females the caregivers after birth; without that -- there really is no reason for the females to have breasts. Although, too, large breasts might be a permanent feature, but shrink after her fertility cycle is over. Wider hips might not be only for giving birth but would provide the male better access for coupling and insemination. There are some options there.
Four sexes would seriously curtail the reproduction rate and the circumstances by which future generations can be conceived. Nature tends to abhor expensive biological processes, and birth among the Andorians would be prohibitive -- unless more than one child is conceived at the same time. If the 4th sex is much larger in size, they could more easily accommodate twins or triplets, reducing the biological cost by rewarding to cost to procreate with more children for the effort. With the two sets of male DNA contributing to the process, all children would be fraternal, not identical siblings, especially if the female drops two or three eggs. Or, they could always be identical, with one egg splitting -- a requirement based on the 2nd male's contribution? This would allow cases of fertilization without the 2nd male contributing his portion, but limiting the birth to one child at a time.
In humans, sperm can survive for up to five days. What if Andorian females can simply store the partially fertilized egg until later? Having the 2nd male sex be a "smaller and more wiry size" does not make sense unless the semen also has secondary functions in the fertilization process.
Jesus dude it a but harsh and not well thought out to claim the whole idea is stupid based on one charecter having breasts and hips for reasons that may be entirely different from human physiology, they aligned we literally have no idea how they work internally
@@wingedfish1175 The way I see it is that biology is really messy. The way DNA is encoded is imperfect with mutations being rife. Also, requiring four sexes for reproduction adds a degree of complexity that I find unlikely that selection pressure will favor. There would have to be a massive survival advantage to having four sexes to reproduce.
Actually, if I were a Starfleet Captain, I'd want an Andorian tactical officer.
Im quite upset that hemmer died, i think he was my favorite star trek character
I would love to have an Andorian as my tactical officer.
I come back for the random but always there STD network moment! 😂
Between Star Trek 4 and Star Trek Enterprise they only appeared in The next generation season 3.
Re: having 4 sexes in Andorian reproductive biology - I'm reminded of the TV series "Alien Nation", where the Newcomers had 3 sexes. The third sex (generally male in appearance) was known as the Binnaum, and while sterile themselves, they were necessary to catalyze a pregnancy. They were also not traditionally allowed to marry or form a pair bond, which comes up in one episode. Perhaps one sex of Andorians performed such a role - not adding genetic material, but necessary to enhance fertility and/or to ensure pregnancy.
It looks like if you have more than 2 sexes. Genders rolls and expectations, along with discrimination are reduced. I enjoyed Alien Nation. (Series and movie)
I've always found them interesting and was glad enterprise really fleshed them out but wish they'd be more prominent in the rest of star trek.
I like how even with a limited budget in the original series they actually looked more like aliens.
lol.. love that you think about this. I think Andorians were sympathetically treated in the Enterprise Series... and I liked that. Don't know about the 4 sexes... but it does bring to mind that complicated family connections could lead to un for seen consequences good and bad in dealing with an alien race. I would love to see more on interbreeding with these different species. Just how could that work? I could see some relationships may be childless... but we know some have produced offspring like Spock and a gal ( sorry forgot name ) that was part Klingon I probably mentioned this before.. but I think Dick Tracy's Moon Maid influenced the Andorian look. Basically she looked the same but with tan skin. She came out in 64 I think. Thanks for your research and discussion.