I recall that Oblivion came out around the same time as Twilight Princess and Skyrim came out at around the same time as Skyward Sword. For whatever reason Nintendo was confused by their Wii Sports customer base and decided that open worlds were confusing to players. BotW was clearly inspired by the comparisons between Skyward Sword and Skyrim.
A scrolls-like is just an open world RPG. I want "reverse horror" to catch on though, as well as "non human player" or whatever the proper name should be. Without a commonly used label, it's hard to search and find games where you're not a typical humanoid. I want to be a spider, a xenomorph, something with tentacles like Carrion or The Darkness. I want to be a shapeshifter like in Streets of Rogue, play as a monster with the ability to possess enemies like in Dishonored. But searching for games like this is very difficult
@ it was just the none existent story terrible combat and the constant looting and upgrading that i found so tedious. I put around a hundred hours in before I decided it wasn’t for me. I really wanted to like it because I loved the look of it and the idea of exploring the vast world but meh.
Last of Us 1 was amazing but it did not have a lasting effect on me. Last of Us 2 however came at a time when I suffered an unexpected breakup after being head over heels for my SO. The game was not happy. In fact it was the complete opposite. But it tremendously helped me and was there for me. The narrative, seeing the suffering the very real characters went through, the mamy kids of it, helped me get through the worst of mine. It showed me that while my suffering is nothing to discount, it could always be worse. And if the those going through that can maybe not get over it but come to terms with it, made my sadness and depression a lot more bearable. It's by far my most special game of the PS4 generation
I got some thoughts on this, cause I've talked to friends before about the idea of a Scrollslike genre and I came to some conclusions over time, if anyone cares to read. I think its because Elder Scrolls games have no core / defining gameplay mechanics. The core mechanics that it does have: combat, levelling, crafting, looting, etc, all change with every entry in the series. There is really nothing about these games as a whole series that defines them or sets them apart from other games. The appeal of Elder Scrolls, in my opinion, is the world building. Both the actual worlds - the maps and the regions of Tamriel you play in, and how they are built, all the stuff you can find and explore in them, and the lore, the stories, the complex history and politics and the different races, etc. Thats really what defines Elder Scrolls. Where there are tons of games that emulatr Dark Souls, giving birth to the Soulslike genre, they can only do that because Dark Souls is defined by its gameplay. Ask anu Dark Souls fan what the ins and outs of the lore are, and they'll tell you their battery is dying and they gotta go. Gameplay is something you can emulate, worldbuilding isn't. Soend 5 minutes in any Elder Scrolls community, and you'll quickly find that even the most casual fans will tell you whether Skyrim belongs to the Empire or the Nords. They have opinions on the politics within the game. That's unique. In case it sounds like it, I'm not hating on Dark Souls, I haven't played any of them, but I am intimately familiar with every Fromsoft game cause I have a friend who is a total megafan. They aren't for me, but I totally recognise how great they are. Likewise I am a massive Elder Scrolls fan, and I do genuinely believe the worldbuilding in these games is unmatched, but for real, the gameplay sucks 😂
Why isn't there a "Scroll's-like?" I think the obvious answer lies in "what is Elder Scrolls?" Myth, lore, gameplay, graphics, PC generation, optional FULL questlines that deal with stories that then have sometimes NOTHING to do with any of the mythology or main quest, and on top of that environmental storytelling and chaos... You can't really sell that to executives and it is a monumental undertaking. How are you to sell the god of lovehammers expansion that may or may not include several essential lore implications and races just not in the original game? People wrongly write off vanilla ES games because the base game itself often has fans making it, it all feels like it was fan created and miraculously made with a glue gun and an erector set.
I think to spawn a subgenre, a game needs to be a noticeable outlier to its original genre. Games like Dark Souls or Super Metroid stand out because their defining features are different from the genre conventions at that time, so the only way to classify them and their copycats is by creating a new sub-category. Elder Scrolls has always been firmly in the Open-World RPG category and hasn't introduced anything that could challenge that. So every game in the series is just seen as the next step for the RPG genre instead, and games that emulate them are just other RPGs.
A Scrolls like is an open world RPG. Dragon's Dogma comes to mind for me, but I'm pretty sure there's a lot of open world rpgs that would fall into your "scrolls like" genre. I haven't really played them, but I think Fable and Dragon Age are similar enough to Bethesda's open world rpgs. Another thing to consider are the MMOs that have similar gameplay. DND online is(was? I have no idea if it still exists) was basically Skyrim, but online.
It is called "Exploration Open World RPG". There are a couple of games that reach it at some extent: Zelda (BOTW, TOTK) Terraria Mount & Blade: Bannerlord Valheim Elden Ring Even Minecraft One thing all those games above share with Skyrim that I value so much is a handcrafted experience. Even random generated world ones like Terraria and Valheim have many moments that were designed to be experience at its fullest. It is one of the most amazing virtual experiences one can dream of.
@@mc-snack3316 I don't think it necessarily surpasses since each of these games are the best at their own unique thing. Skyrim has a way heavier emphasis on the RPG side, since it allows you to actually be someone in the world besides the classic hero role that you have, something that is way more limited on both BOTW and TOTK. But mechanically I agree that the Zeldas does it way better than Skyrim.
@@mc-snack3316 their worlds are supremely lackluster, like half the upgrades are jut korok seeds, there is aroun 1000 korok seeds. Each time it's the same. The game isn't worse, it just doesn't make me care like skyrim did.
@@Tenacityfromtheglass you know indie games and double AA games are doing a lot better than triple AAA games maybe you should try out more indie games and double AA games. I hope you respond.
@jamespaguip5913 to be honest, before I got a steam deck, I thought gaming was dead. It's crazy how small our perspectives can be when we cling to the familiar.
Because Elder Scrolls is not the first game of its genre nor is it the title that made the genre it is in popular or well known. Whereas rogue-like is literally based on the first procedurally generated randomized game. (Rogue.)
King's Field, Ultima and Dungeon Master are 3 games which came before it, and all did pretty much the exact same thing. Plus the base of The Elder Scrolls is built on Dungeon Master
I think the reason we perhaps dont se a "scrollslike" subgenre is because it is so influential tha it's become so encoded in the RPG genre as a whole *edit: Spelling
@Kultureliten I think it even spread to other genres as well. How many survival games have ore smelting, tanning racks, cooking pots, smiting, etc. Minecraft played a big role too, but a lot of survival games remind me of the crafting system in skyrim. I recently beat oblivion for the first time and wow! I wish I could erase my memory and experience it for the first time again. I didn't think it would be as good with skyrim being my first, but it spoke to me. I still admittedly need to play morrowind and daggerfall, but, man, I've never been so immersived in a game before. I feel like Dread Delusion sparked that same feeling as when I played oblivion. That desire to wander, ya know
@Devin Chase you know indie games and double AA games are doing a lot better than triple AAA games maybe you should try out more indie games and double AA games. I hope you respond.
wasn't oblivion world bigger than skyrim? And morrowind bigger than too? Skyrim is loved for being extremely accessible, watered down rpg mechanics putting sense of discovery every direction you go.
Oblivion is a little bit bigger than skyrim and morrowind is the smallest in the series. The rpg mechanics are accessible, yeah, but watered down? I think they're less of a barrier to entry from oblivions magic system.
"It's actually pretty funny comparing Skyrim to the open world games of today because now it's considered to be fairly small" Brother, Skyrim was one of the smallest Elder Scrolls games upon its release
@TechTemplar-xxxx cyber punks combat dwarfs skyrim. Skyrims combat kinda sucks, to be honest. You should check out tainted grail. It's basically Skyrim, but the combat dunks on it for days. Just watch the trailer, I promise!
I think it's dumb to throw away useful features like minimaps and fast travel in the name of immersion. Always have options for those that want them but throwing away good time savers for the sake of it is just unreasonable.
Great video ideas man keep it up!
I recall that Oblivion came out around the same time as Twilight Princess and Skyrim came out at around the same time as Skyward Sword.
For whatever reason Nintendo was confused by their Wii Sports customer base and decided that open worlds were confusing to players.
BotW was clearly inspired by the comparisons between Skyward Sword and Skyrim.
A scrolls-like is just an open world RPG.
I want "reverse horror" to catch on though, as well as "non human player" or whatever the proper name should be. Without a commonly used label, it's hard to search and find games where you're not a typical humanoid.
I want to be a spider, a xenomorph, something with tentacles like Carrion or The Darkness. I want to be a shapeshifter like in Streets of Rogue, play as a monster with the ability to possess enemies like in Dishonored.
But searching for games like this is very difficult
it's not "just" an open world rpg, what make them unique are the immersive sim elements.
I could never get into Skyrim as much as I tried.
I found the loot to be really bad
@ it was just the none existent story terrible combat and the constant looting and upgrading that i found so tedious. I put around a hundred hours in before I decided it wasn’t for me. I really wanted to like it because I loved the look of it and the idea of exploring the vast world but meh.
@@sandman8920 True. Fallout New Vegas hooked me though. I put about 200 hours into that
Understandable
that's kinda sad bro
Last of Us 1 was amazing but it did not have a lasting effect on me.
Last of Us 2 however came at a time when I suffered an unexpected breakup after being head over heels for my SO. The game was not happy. In fact it was the complete opposite. But it tremendously helped me and was there for me. The narrative, seeing the suffering the very real characters went through, the mamy kids of it, helped me get through the worst of mine. It showed me that while my suffering is nothing to discount, it could always be worse. And if the those going through that can maybe not get over it but come to terms with it, made my sadness and depression a lot more bearable. It's by far my most special game of the PS4 generation
I got some thoughts on this, cause I've talked to friends before about the idea of a Scrollslike genre and I came to some conclusions over time, if anyone cares to read.
I think its because Elder Scrolls games have no core / defining gameplay mechanics. The core mechanics that it does have: combat, levelling, crafting, looting, etc, all change with every entry in the series. There is really nothing about these games as a whole series that defines them or sets them apart from other games. The appeal of Elder Scrolls, in my opinion, is the world building. Both the actual worlds - the maps and the regions of Tamriel you play in, and how they are built, all the stuff you can find and explore in them, and the lore, the stories, the complex history and politics and the different races, etc.
Thats really what defines Elder Scrolls. Where there are tons of games that emulatr Dark Souls, giving birth to the Soulslike genre, they can only do that because Dark Souls is defined by its gameplay. Ask anu Dark Souls fan what the ins and outs of the lore are, and they'll tell you their battery is dying and they gotta go. Gameplay is something you can emulate, worldbuilding isn't. Soend 5 minutes in any Elder Scrolls community, and you'll quickly find that even the most casual fans will tell you whether Skyrim belongs to the Empire or the Nords. They have opinions on the politics within the game. That's unique.
In case it sounds like it, I'm not hating on Dark Souls, I haven't played any of them, but I am intimately familiar with every Fromsoft game cause I have a friend who is a total megafan. They aren't for me, but I totally recognise how great they are. Likewise I am a massive Elder Scrolls fan, and I do genuinely believe the worldbuilding in these games is unmatched, but for real, the gameplay sucks 😂
Why isn't there a "Scroll's-like?"
I think the obvious answer lies in "what is Elder Scrolls?"
Myth, lore, gameplay, graphics, PC generation, optional FULL questlines that deal with stories that then have sometimes NOTHING to do with any of the mythology or main quest, and on top of that environmental storytelling and chaos...
You can't really sell that to executives and it is a monumental undertaking.
How are you to sell the god of lovehammers expansion that may or may not include several essential lore implications and races just not in the original game?
People wrongly write off vanilla ES games because the base game itself often has fans making it, it all feels like it was fan created and miraculously made with a glue gun and an erector set.
I think to spawn a subgenre, a game needs to be a noticeable outlier to its original genre. Games like Dark Souls or Super Metroid stand out because their defining features are different from the genre conventions at that time, so the only way to classify them and their copycats is by creating a new sub-category. Elder Scrolls has always been firmly in the Open-World RPG category and hasn't introduced anything that could challenge that. So every game in the series is just seen as the next step for the RPG genre instead, and games that emulate them are just other RPGs.
A Scrolls like is an open world RPG. Dragon's Dogma comes to mind for me, but I'm pretty sure there's a lot of open world rpgs that would fall into your "scrolls like" genre. I haven't really played them, but I think Fable and Dragon Age are similar enough to Bethesda's open world rpgs. Another thing to consider are the MMOs that have similar gameplay. DND online is(was? I have no idea if it still exists) was basically Skyrim, but online.
It is called "Exploration Open World RPG". There are a couple of games that reach it at some extent:
Zelda (BOTW, TOTK)
Terraria
Mount & Blade: Bannerlord
Valheim
Elden Ring
Even Minecraft
One thing all those games above share with Skyrim that I value so much is a handcrafted experience. Even random generated world ones like Terraria and Valheim have many moments that were designed to be experience at its fullest.
It is one of the most amazing virtual experiences one can dream of.
Zelda botw and totk surpasses Skyrim imo
@@mc-snack3316 I don't think it necessarily surpasses since each of these games are the best at their own unique thing. Skyrim has a way heavier emphasis on the RPG side, since it allows you to actually be someone in the world besides the classic hero role that you have, something that is way more limited on both BOTW and TOTK. But mechanically I agree that the Zeldas does it way better than Skyrim.
Valheim has no right being as good as it is!
@@mc-snack3316 their worlds are supremely lackluster, like half the upgrades are jut korok seeds, there is aroun 1000 korok seeds. Each time it's the same.
The game isn't worse, it just doesn't make me care like skyrim did.
Cool video about the game but you didn’t answer the question in the title - WHY is there no scrollslike genre?
Hoooly shit. I played the Demo of this a while ago and completely forgot the name. Thank you for reminding me.
@AlmostAeroGauge almost the same here. I saw it in an indie showcase, and forgot the name for a while
@@Tenacityfromtheglass you know indie games and double AA games are doing a lot better than triple AAA games maybe you should try out more indie games and double AA games. I hope you respond.
@jamespaguip5913 to be honest, before I got a steam deck, I thought gaming was dead. It's crazy how small our perspectives can be when we cling to the familiar.
10:24 ....wasnt the iron maiden thing that was invented by the Victorians as a way of belittling the Middle Ages??? 😅😅😅
Don't know... I just know of a few popular myths around it. I had fun reading about it, though, whether or not they're true.
Because Elder Scrolls is not the first game of its genre nor is it the title that made the genre it is in popular or well known.
Whereas rogue-like is literally based on the first procedurally generated randomized game. (Rogue.)
King's Field, Ultima and Dungeon Master are 3 games which came before it, and all did pretty much the exact same thing.
Plus the base of The Elder Scrolls is built on Dungeon Master
Ravensword shadowlands is a underrated scrolls like.
I'm gonna have to check that one out
That and the "kings field" games
I think the reason we perhaps dont se a "scrollslike" subgenre is because it is so influential tha it's become so encoded in the RPG genre as a whole
*edit: Spelling
@Kultureliten I think it even spread to other genres as well. How many survival games have ore smelting, tanning racks, cooking pots, smiting, etc. Minecraft played a big role too, but a lot of survival games remind me of the crafting system in skyrim. I recently beat oblivion for the first time and wow! I wish I could erase my memory and experience it for the first time again. I didn't think it would be as good with skyrim being my first, but it spoke to me. I still admittedly need to play morrowind and daggerfall, but, man, I've never been so immersived in a game before. I feel like Dread Delusion sparked that same feeling as when I played oblivion. That desire to wander, ya know
@Devin Chase you know indie games and double AA games are doing a lot better than triple AAA games maybe you should try out more indie games and double AA games. I hope you respond.
Why are indie games and double AA games doing a lot better than triple AAA for some reason the only good triple AAA game out there is space marine 2.
wasn't oblivion world bigger than skyrim? And morrowind bigger than too? Skyrim is loved for being extremely accessible, watered down rpg mechanics putting sense of discovery every direction you go.
Oblivion is a little bit bigger than skyrim and morrowind is the smallest in the series. The rpg mechanics are accessible, yeah, but watered down? I think they're less of a barrier to entry from oblivions magic system.
Morrowind is certainly not bigger than
Ultima
"It's actually pretty funny comparing Skyrim to the open world games of today because now it's considered to be fairly small"
Brother, Skyrim was one of the smallest Elder Scrolls games upon its release
And...?
the iron maiden reminded you of the iron maiden?
btw thumbs down for having a terrible click bait title instead of saying its about this game. i cannot fucking stand that trend.
open world rpg is the genre
scrolls was pretty shallow mechanically
Cyberpunk is kinda like skyrim but with different setting and a much better combat system
@TechTemplar-xxxx cyber punks combat dwarfs skyrim. Skyrims combat kinda sucks, to be honest. You should check out tainted grail. It's basically Skyrim, but the combat dunks on it for days. Just watch the trailer, I promise!
I think it's dumb to throw away useful features like minimaps and fast travel in the name of immersion.
Always have options for those that want them but throwing away good time savers for the sake of it is just unreasonable.