If Rule of Rose was a visual novel, it probably would've been one of the greatest visual novels of all time. Sad that its atrocious gameplay brings it down.
@@Saddonghussein I mean bad mechanic is fine but when the game is frustating even I would havr a hard time compleating to enjoy the story as inteded 😅
@@UniversalControl-13 by that dumb logic you must love silent hill homecoming and never ended silent hill 4, you must adore resident evil 6 and hate outbreak
i feel that Greogry appearing as a dog is the same as Clara as a mermaid , etc. - a fairytale-inspired distortion of a person tied to Jennifer's repressed trauma, rather than Gregory "regressing". to me the Stray Dog story is more likely anti-Brown propaganda that Wendy spread via the Aristocrats.
If I remember correctly, after Jennifer beats the shit out of Wendy, she then dresses up as Joshua to mess with Gregory. By doing so she manipulates him to murder all the children at the orphanage. The legend I believe is tied to the rumors and probably experienced behavior of Gregory being a weirdo that will kidnap children
@@Saddonghussein Oh srry Mr. Director and writer of the story can you write down all of it and do a video about it? I would LOVE to watch the real story :9 Thanks
I also feel that in Jennifer going back to heal her past trauma by physically going to the orphanage that she was able to heal the souls of the children that had to hide their traumatic experiences.
I get the joke about children kicking a nineteen year old woman into a hole seeming impossible...but as a woman at 26 years old who is 5'3" and barely above 90lbs due to medical reasons, yeah it ain't as hard as you think to get knocked over.
Plus, in fairness, there were a lot of kids pushing and shoving Jennifer at once. She's also not the combative sort, so she basically put up 0 resistance and that's ignoring all the spoilery reasons why that scene even happens to begin with!
I thought the whole game was like a suppressed memory. So when she's getting pushed around as an adult it's really just memories of being pushed around as a child. idk. The whole game seems very metaphorical.
im not the biggest person but im a grown adult and work with kids from 3-18 and you would be genuinely shocked at the pure raw strength an ordinarily sized 4 year old can have
This game cought my eye because it explores that primal cruelty that children can be capable of. I'd love to see a remake that reworks it's flaws but given the impact of it's premise i fear there's little hope.
That's the surface level read of its premise y'know. There's a hell a lot of more to it than just exploring made up hierarchies among children. As for primal cruelty, that's innocence. Children's hateful behavior and lack of respect towards their peers and things is always learned first and foremost from those perceived as guardians (not necessarily their parents even if they are present.) You can fill a kid with hatred and mold their sense of community as aristocratic where the noble by "birthright" or displayed power are allowed to their whims, if that's all you ever let them know (in a closed ecosystem such as the game's "orphanage" (which is only the front.")) A remake which would fail to understand the underlying events, causes and networks and explore them properly would fail the subject matter entirely. It doesn't end there, but I'm afraid I'd be treading on thin ice with YT throwing a fit about certain key words if I continued and besides it's more fun to do your own query and read on the game questioning all aspects it portrays.
@Silent_Depths I see your point but i believe there is a limit to innosence even for children, i've seen it; how at one point the curiosity that comes with inflicting pain for the first time can transform into desire even when the perpetrator knows the victim is suffering or maybe even continues precisely for that reason.
watching someone play Rule of Rose kind of blew my mind. they hated the game play but wanted to see more story. and so did I some of the visuals and artsy direction was actually breathtaking
I've played this game many times (bought it six years ago, costed me an arm but it was worth it), and I don't regret anything. I'm aware about its flaws and problems, but it's still my favourite horror game ever. Its narrative reached me on such a deep level that I can forgive the gameplay issues.
Hey, I was wondering about the humor in your videos. Your videos seem to be a lot funnier as of late, with quirky jokes and some funny cutaways; your past videos seemed to be way more serious in tone. Have you seen better responses to the videos that contain humor alongside your analyses? I love the humor, especially because you don't linger on it. You're the GOAT, Max!
He barely even puts memes in. Compared to the adhd slop that litters this platform, I like the occasional lighthearted joke here. Also you can tell he's from a different, more mature, less brainrotted time
I find most people's take on this odd, but perhaps I am the odd one. I thought his videos were getting less serious because Max was becoming more comfortable with himself, autism, and his public platform. I never got the impression that he is trying to appeal to meme culture. I got the impression that he was happy, legitimately happy.
Ah Rule of Rose, the game my mom bought for my then 10 year old sister because she saw a girl on the cover and though "yeah that'll do." To be a little fair, she did after buying it read the manual and it was replaced with the PS2 version of Harvest Moon. We still had Rule of Rose though so I played it one summer while bored and proceeded to laugh at the fact that it was meant as a gift for my sister. I didn't play much of Rule of Rose though because its well Rule of Rose, so its fun seeing it show up on this channel. She also bought my sister the game Red Ninja, which was a Tenchu clone, for the same reason.
5:41 It seems the developers were inspired by the Spirit of the Beehive(1973) , the drawing here resembles the opening titles of the film. The film itself explores childhood and trauma, through the eyes of a child.
I like the gameplay of RoR hahaha. All you have to do is consider all its faults like something the developers did on purpose to accentuate Jennifer's vulnerability. I mean, for instance, why is she so slow? It makes sense, because she's only 9. Why can't she hit enemies? Because she's so afraid that she can't even look at them directly into their faces. Why is the combat system so bad? Because Jennifer is a 9 yo girl who suddenly finds herself in a hostile world which wants her dead. It wouldn't make any sense for her to have the fighting ability of a soldier.
Then don't have a combat system, do something like detention where you have to go around the enemies instead of fighting them Edit: like just don't have a combat system, have whatever bosses exist be a puzzle boss
Nah this is no excuse, silent hill games have a "bad" combat system on purpose but is still balanced and you can rely on it when you need it although it's always recommended for you to avoid using it . RoR was just bad and poorly executed, as Max even mentioned in the video the developers also recognized that, no matter what plot elements can justify it it's still a videogame and it needs to work as a videogame as well and not only as a storytelling media.
The game which tried to expose truths and got shunned for it... Likely the most grievous act it committed was bringing the airships and related "accidents" to the light. To this day I consider it the second most important horror game made after Drowned God (1996.) On a related note important works which feature certain subjects and events have a funny pattern of being banned... or bad things happen to their creators.
I appreciate that you brought up the inherent differences in the bullying that girls/women will do to each other, I rarely see it brought up in videos going over the themes in Rule of Rose despite it being by FAR the most interesting aspect of the characters' relationships and the plot.
I can't help but see the scene where Brown is locked away in the shed as a metaphor for over-protectiveness (a link to Gregory's treatment of Joshua/Jennifer?) He doesn't seem to want to wear the collar, and the chain yanks him back when he tries to follow after Jennifer. Then we hear what sounds like a metal bar being closed over the shed door, reminiscent of a prison cell, though we've already seen that in reality there is only a padlock. He will quite probably die in there. But at least he's "safe".
Nah For one - hope that never happens because they will remove some content (as usual when it comes to remakes/remasters these days) two - there's almost no chance for that to happen
While i feel often indifferent towards remakes, a remake where it overhauls the gameplay would do this game massive justice...assuming they don't change the story for "modern audiences"
Rule of Rose was such a surreal and wonderfully frustrating game that absolutely punched me in the gut. I loved it. DO NOT recommend others to play, but definitely watch SOMEONE ELSE play it. It's so good.
The fact that you liked the music of The Talos Principle so much that you decided to use it in your videos Max makes me so happy, happy that there's someone that likes it as much as i do💜
Played it last October and with an actual copy on my PS2. I was fully aware of the gameplay problems so I was prepared but still wasn't good. The story was really worth it coming from a Silent Hill fanatic! Side note: I only paid like $104 for my CIB copy of it and did get the pre-order bonus CD. Hopefully I'll never have to get rid of it since its now a treasure for my PS2 collection.
Honestly, I absolutely love Rule of Rose, warts and all and have given it multiple playthroughs. Yeah the gameplay is janky, but after a while, I found myself getting used to it. (The bosses really didn't give me too much trouble....however, THOSE GODDAMNED BIRDS! They were the worst 😹). However, there is just so much to love about this game. The soundtrack is wonderful and sets a great tone thought the game. Visually, the game is gorgeous. Storywise, it is engaging and I wholly agree with you, gaming studios no longer take risks like Rule of Rose, it's bad for business 🙄. Overall, I would describe Rule of Rose as "Beautifully Haunting". It is a game that just sticks with you, even long after it is over.
I'm happy you got around to checking this one out. This and Haunting Ground were interesting horror games on the ps2 and it always bothered me that they were banned in some regions. Ridiculous that themes were the problem. You don't really see horror games address issues like this much anymore in the AAA market. Keep up the solid work, there are still gems like those 2 trapped on the ps2 and other consoles with no official ports in sight.
Rule of Rose is a game I’ve never played but know well enough It’s a story I wanted to learn and know more about From the cutscenes, play throughs, reviews, articles, and Wikis I remember walking through a GameStop and seeing a copy resting on the shelf The reason it stood out is because it wasn’t like other games From the cover art to the genre That’s without knowing anything more than the box cover synopsis Rule of Rose is a half baked game that would have been a lot more if it wasn’t for the premature release and bad press
Ive heard some pretty awful things about the siren combat being difficult and annoying as fuck, but I found out how to beat her pretty easily. I even did it a second time without having to heal more than once. Whats actually annoying is how long it takes
Sold my PS2 copy for $650 back during the pandemic when it was up there in value. I couldn’t believe a $10 GameStop game I picked up years ago would blow up like that.
My step mother was not a fan of video games, but tried them out because of my dad and I. That was until I found her staying up all night playing this game. She still talks to me about that game when I visit her, how no other game or movie or tv will tell a story like that.
Rule of Rose is the only game I have ever played that made me physically nauseous. It wasn't any of the imagery or gore. It was Clara. Realizing what had happened to her after the related boss fight, remembering the things I'd seen with her and Hoffman. . .I felt like I was going to vomit. It was the purest feeling of horror I'd ever experienced at that point in my life.
Silent Hill 4 is a great example of a great game that is bad. It has a lot of bad parts, but those parts actively suffocate you too, like the repetitive segments mirroring Henry's boring, repetitive life. Henry is portrayed as someone who isnt very interested in details in his life, also leading to confusing areas with little discerning features. It's a hard piece of media to love, but dammit I do.
I’m so appreciative of the walkthroughs and video essays on TH-cam because there’s probably no way I could play this 😅😮 thank you so much for your hard work here! I can’t believe this game came out 2 years after I graduated high school… I still have my copy but never finished playing this!
I gotta say Max Derrat is one of my favorite TH-camrs of all time. I'm always happy to see him upload a video. Even on a topic or game or whatever I'm not familiar with at all. It feels like a class on something
The scariest thing about Rule of Rose is the ridiculous price it fetches on the "collectors market".... And that I got rid of my copy for all the reasons you stated. And yeah, you were dead on in line with my feelings on it.
From what I've gathered with this game, the best way to experience it is to just watch a playthrough rather than go through it yourself, so it's nice to hear you (pretty much) confirm that conclusion.
I see a sliver of myself in Amanda. Being the fat girl in school and not being diagnosed with autism until I was 16, I was ostracised and picked on because the other kids got an easy rise out of me. I can understand her doing the things she does in the game, becoming the bully as a means of survival. It genuinely makes me cry to see her suffer.
Wendy should be recognized as one of the epic antagonists of the horror game genre, but due to how unorthodox her staging and implementation was, many forget her importance in history and the heinousness of her actions.
Story: 10/10 Soundtrack: 10/10 Gameplay: Hot Garbage This is honestly a game that could do with a remake, but I don't think it's something we'll ever get unless some indie game devs that are dedicated fans get together and make it the game it should have been.
Ahh what can I say about this masterpiece? Despite its shitty mechanics, it is one of my favorite games for the story layering and the feeling you get from playing. I was fortunate enough to buy this game basically when it came out and played it so much. I don't remember how many times I suffered thru the gameplay for the music and the story. I think this game is highly underrated along with Haunting Ground and Kuon.
I actually watched a playthrough of the game before most people started getting into it and talking about it. It wasn't until 10 years later that I'd see my first Rule of Rose retrospective, and I went "Wait, I know that game!" surprised to see it here, but im happy it's getting more attention. It's a lovely game that I think I would have never been able to experience had I played it myself... and given how inaccessible it is, well, that wasn't very likely anyways
When you say "horror is one of the most subjective genres", do you mean that the question of whether something is horror or not has a subjective answer, or that the quality of any given work within the genre is subjective?
Max may also mean that certain topics and images may disturb, frighten or repulse the viewer, while someone else is giggling or bored with the portrayal 🤔, thus the subjective aspect
I think he meant both weirdly. So that horror itself is subjective to the viewer, as is the quality of said horror, based on that fact too. If a notoriously bad movie scares you genuinely, you might defend it higher than an acclaimed horror movie that you were not scared by at all or even creeped out by. Horror is a genre that plays on such a basic, human feeling and that's why it can be so varied, subjective and often so widely debated! Not to mention easy to relate to in a LOT of cases, without extensive amounts of effort towards that by writers. Scenarios themselves can be enough to sell the relatability without the details. So yeah, horror is pretty damn subjective in more ways than one.
@JoannaSobczak-fm5ug yeah I would say that would be the former rather than the latter; since genre is descriptive, what might horrify me might amuse someone else. That wouldn't effect quality. If something is well-designed and well-written (with consistency, depth, consequence, logic, etc.) but has aesthetics that make some people laugh and make others spooked, it would still be objectively well-made aside from genre conventions. This sounds like a game that is in fact bad, but has a cool story.
@@Genasidal if the presence of something is subjective, then the quality of that thing must also be subjective, yes. I'm talking about the overall quality of the game rather than the quality of the horror.
I learned about Rule of Rose through a video essay and sought it out immediately. It instantly became one of my top 5 favourite games. The storytelling, the symbolism, the characters, and music are top tier. Yes, game play is clunky and tedious (I view combat as bad because Jennifer is timid and weak, but that's not a forgive all excuse) My first play through was rough. Took a dozen tries to beat mermaid princess. It was easier on a second play through. Was able to one shot her. Like SH4, I don't ENJOY playing them per se, I actually kind of dread it, but I love experiencing them as a game in a way that I don't think I would have had they been movies. It's sad that people will pass on these games because of the gameplay. Highly recommend watching full gameplay videos at the very least. I'm such a HUGE fan of Rule of Rose, that all my friends pitched in to buy me a copy that will be my birthday and christmas gifts for the rest of my life lol.
I wonder if this game will ever have a chance for a remake? It definitely has a cult following and it's hard to find a copy of it for a decent price now. Not to mention, the stupid controversy regarding the original might actually make people curious to try out a remake.
There was an interview with the founder of Punchline (which is the team that developed rule of rose) “Yoshiro Kimura” who founded a new company called Onion. He mentioned something along the lines that the odds of a remaster is 5%
What you said about story and other things not mattering in horror applies to every genre. That's why action films don't need good story either. As long as the action is good, story doesn't matter. About a mystery thriller, the action doesn't matter as long as the story is good. For some unfair reason action movies are judged by the non-action elements more than the action.
@Stigmatix666 But not if it's scary enough to compensate. Now I actually like the story to Transformers, but even if I didn't, the special effects, CGI, set pieces, stunts, and fights are so cool that I would still love them. Honestly I've not enjoyd any action movies FOR THE ACTION as much as the first 3 Bayformers ever since.
I don't know how true it is but I remember reading somewhere that at least the majority of combat was basically only put into the game with a lot of rush because the publishers demanded it, and it would definitely make a lot of sense Also, the game has like a ng+ system or a thing that tracks your saves, idk exactly what but I remember when I still replayed this game I would find less and less healing items, meaning it's best to delete your saves from the memory card if you plan on ever torturing yourself again God I hate that this game is still so good
I came across Rule of Rose entirely organically. It was in a bargain bin at the local GameStop for less than ten dollars and the cover looked interesting so o bought it on a whim. Boy howdy was I not prepared lol. I really did like it. I did hate it for the same reasons describe here however it’s story, the uniqueness of it, and the subject matter was outstanding. Rarely is such a solid piece of Proustian art present
Silent Hill 4 is the only Silent Hill game I've played. I know that the first two are better, but I have no plans of playing them yet I was 10 when playing it and I didn't finish it because how scary it was to me. After playing DOOM 2 when I was 5 in its entirety and playing HL1 at 7, the pure idea that there could be monsters that get up after being "killed" scared me immensely. I got so used to the fact that you leave no threat behind, that I was scared that I wouldn't be safe anywhere. Great feeling for a horror
When i was like 30s i had a girlfriend much younger, like 18, and she wanted to play this game, not alone, cause she was freaking scared and dont get what to do. So we played together trading places. This is a game fun to watch, is like a novel or movie, its not a bad experience when you have someone helping. Its not so frustrating or boring... I had a great time, the gameplay its bad, but i remember the story and the concept more than anything, and the OST is gorgeous too... But if you wanna play something more bad and broken and anticlimatic than this, try Nightmare Creatures 2, for a change...
As a collector who sought out a copy back before the 2020 pandemic hiked the price up I found the game worth it for the rarity alone, knowing why it was so rare and hard to come by makes it a unique item in the collection and something I sought after as a sort of holy grail for my PS2 library. I later played through the game on stream one year during the Halloween season and honestly I adored it, flaws at all. It was a short breezy playthrough that honestly left me wanting more of it. After playing I still think it's worth the $350 I paid to get a complete copy in pristine condition. Would I pay the modern average of 6 - 7 hundred for it? Probably not, least not on my current income. I wouldn't recommend anyone pay that price unless they're in the collector market honestly. But I 100% disagree with the video here, I think it is a game that people SHOULD play. I think the narrative is worth the slightly janky combat that I feel this video kind of exaggerates. It's not perfect by any means but it's not THAT bad. The strength of the story and the strong symbolism at play within it are more than enough to make it worth it. I feel the mechanics, as janky as they are, add to the feelings of disempowerment and fit with the themes and narrative of the game. All that said, great video. Always nice to see this gem get more attention and appreciation for its story, regardless of the feelings on the rest of the package.
I remember having to go through this hassle to get a pair of scissors while ignoring a pair of scissors in easy reach on a table. Part of why I abandoned the game, that and it felt like a counterintuitive knockoff of Haunting Ground (I don't know the release dates, I just played that one first).
firstly let me start with school busses at night are not common but i lived near bear lake once and on the opposite side of the lake that the school was on .. i had to be ready and board the school bus at 3 AM and I got dropped off at my street at 6PM which in winter is indeed night time where we were.. so yes i indeed did ride the night school buss. which i have to say is way more unnerving than any day time school bus. even though i wasn't the last to be dropped off or picked up it was very unnerving being on a school buss so late. i remember one winter we had 5FT of snow and the snow plows just kept pushing the snow up my side street and they blocked my car in with a 10 ft wall of snow and my mom was laughing because she couldn't go to work but she definitely made us climb that snow wall to go to school. it was a long buss ride around that lake every day twice a day until i moved. but yes I'd say in rare occasions a night school buss ride does happen.
I get tired of the "the bullied/ab*sed only bully/ab*se in order to survive" trope. I & a dozen other kids I know from public school, were horribly bullied by other kids (& many ab*sed by parents) but never felt the need to hurt anyone else. That's no excuse to continue selfish, cruel behavior...
Drakengard In my eyes was yokotaro being the most cheeky mofo he could have ever been in his life. He didn't even tell them about the ending until they were near the end of the development of the game He was being a massive troll but the funny part is it all ended up working somehow. So honestly he's a genius Also EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 😂
I like brown mechanic, it's very unique, but everything else is 😅 The story tho, it really shaped my preference in stories and horror since this was my childhood horror game
It's a real shame that such a particular game, despite the extremely tedious and poorly refined gameplay, has been overwhelmed by a controversy born in my country, Italy, based on false news and a rough review of only the first few minutes of the game, which has irreparably stained not only the reputation of this game but also of its developer. A scandal that has reached the European Parliament, leading to its removal from shelves throughout Europe! A tragic story in every sense, both in the game and in real life! 😢
Apparently there were efforts to ban this game when it came out. Not surprising. Any media that touches on these topics tends to spawn an infinite sea of cretins that think it's obscene or something.
i find the story so compelling except for the part where wendy manipulates gregory, it smashes my immersion completely. i just can't suspend my disbelief on this child pulling off such a feat of brainwashing on an adult, even a traumatized one. it puts her on the same level with someone like johan from monster, who's supposed to be very nearly superhuman.
I’ll be honest, this was the only video of yours I didn’t click on like. I honestly think the people that made this game are sick in the head. Strictly because they expressed this through children. I now question anybody that is obsessed with this game. I’ve seen many people loving this game but I didn’t know what it was about…until now. Merry Christmas 🎄
I'd kill for just a steam port with no fixes. Modders could fix it. I bought it for $20. My little brother sold it at some point, and I bring it up to him at least once a year still. Wish they had just done the Illbleed route for combat and just gave a dodge button with like 3 seconds of invincibility. I love RoR, but Illbleed will be my favorite horror for that button alone in klunky combat horror games
Yeah by the time you get to the end i have no sympathy for most those kids. This game i highly reccomend everyone to play at least once because the hype was real. And if u have trouble with the drunk controls and set up follow a guide to help ya. I wish i could own this game but that prices tag was a high tier pass for me
a bit weird to take a shot at QA teams when referring to how games nowadays are homogenous when their only input is often getting told to "fuck off" when they find a critical bug that bricks your computer on game boot up
If Rule of Rose was a visual novel, it probably would've been one of the greatest visual novels of all time. Sad that its atrocious gameplay brings it down.
Yeah, I feel like one could still be possible though and then we can just forget about the gameplay.
Sounds like a you problem
Who cares about gameplay, the best masterpieces are all becouse of the story not the gameplay
@@Saddonghussein I mean bad mechanic is fine but when the game is frustating even I would havr a hard time compleating to enjoy the story as inteded 😅
@@UniversalControl-13 by that dumb logic you must love silent hill homecoming and never ended silent hill 4, you must adore resident evil 6 and hate outbreak
i feel that Greogry appearing as a dog is the same as Clara as a mermaid , etc. - a fairytale-inspired distortion of a person tied to Jennifer's repressed trauma, rather than Gregory "regressing". to me the Stray Dog story is more likely anti-Brown propaganda that Wendy spread via the Aristocrats.
Wendy's version of brown
If I remember correctly, after Jennifer beats the shit out of Wendy, she then dresses up as Joshua to mess with Gregory. By doing so she manipulates him to murder all the children at the orphanage. The legend I believe is tied to the rumors and probably experienced behavior of Gregory being a weirdo that will kidnap children
It is, this guy fail to understand a lot about this game
@@Saddonghussein Oh srry Mr. Director and writer of the story can you write down all of it and do a video about it? I would LOVE to watch the real story :9 Thanks
@Kazuhiro-i no because it's not my job doing videos, did you ask your mechanic to do your prostate exam too?
5:10 The bus back from school in winter, when the sun sets at 4pm, is a core UK experience. IYKYK
I also feel that in Jennifer going back to heal her past trauma by physically going to the orphanage that she was able to heal the souls of the children that had to hide their traumatic experiences.
I get the joke about children kicking a nineteen year old woman into a hole seeming impossible...but as a woman at 26 years old who is 5'3" and barely above 90lbs due to medical reasons, yeah it ain't as hard as you think to get knocked over.
Plus, in fairness, there were a lot of kids pushing and shoving Jennifer at once. She's also not the combative sort, so she basically put up 0 resistance and that's ignoring all the spoilery reasons why that scene even happens to begin with!
Pretty sure a ton of kids can beat anyone haha so idk why he thinks its impossible
I thought the whole game was like a suppressed memory. So when she's getting pushed around as an adult it's really just memories of being pushed around as a child. idk. The whole game seems very metaphorical.
@@quillclock Yeah and that's understandable. I was just saying tho. I have been nearly knocked over by kids plenty of times.
im not the biggest person but im a grown adult and work with kids from 3-18 and you would be genuinely shocked at the pure raw strength an ordinarily sized 4 year old can have
This game cought my eye because it explores that primal cruelty that children can be capable of. I'd love to see a remake that reworks it's flaws but given the impact of it's premise i fear there's little hope.
That's the surface level read of its premise y'know. There's a hell a lot of more to it than just exploring made up hierarchies among children. As for primal cruelty, that's innocence. Children's hateful behavior and lack of respect towards their peers and things is always learned first and foremost from those perceived as guardians (not necessarily their parents even if they are present.) You can fill a kid with hatred and mold their sense of community as aristocratic where the noble by "birthright" or displayed power are allowed to their whims, if that's all you ever let them know (in a closed ecosystem such as the game's "orphanage" (which is only the front."))
A remake which would fail to understand the underlying events, causes and networks and explore them properly would fail the subject matter entirely. It doesn't end there, but I'm afraid I'd be treading on thin ice with YT throwing a fit about certain key words if I continued and besides it's more fun to do your own query and read on the game questioning all aspects it portrays.
@Silent_Depths I see your point but i believe there is a limit to innosence even for children, i've seen it; how at one point the curiosity that comes with inflicting pain for the first time can transform into desire even when the perpetrator knows the victim is suffering or maybe even continues precisely for that reason.
watching someone play Rule of Rose kind of blew my mind. they hated the game play but wanted to see more story. and so did I
some of the visuals and artsy direction was actually breathtaking
I've played this game many times (bought it six years ago, costed me an arm but it was worth it), and I don't regret anything. I'm aware about its flaws and problems, but it's still my favourite horror game ever. Its narrative reached me on such a deep level that I can forgive the gameplay issues.
exactly
Maxxing my Derrat to this until I Carl my Jung
Sounds incredibly sexual 😂
There was a webcomic on Tumblr called "The Red Crayon" which was a pretty violent retelling of the story with incredible art.
That breakaway for mini-me-as-a-coping-mechanism made me fucking cackle dude 😂
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I could hear my wife giggle from the living room when he said that. 😅
Hey, I was wondering about the humor in your videos. Your videos seem to be a lot funnier as of late, with quirky jokes and some funny cutaways; your past videos seemed to be way more serious in tone. Have you seen better responses to the videos that contain humor alongside your analyses? I love the humor, especially because you don't linger on it. You're the GOAT, Max!
I'm not into it, it's a style of "meme'isch" comedy that's overdone on YT and kindoff tiresome imo 😅. No disrespect
I really love your content but those jokes are a bit off putting for me.
As long as it's not too meme and tiktok-ish, or ruins the overall vibe of the video then I'm fine with it..
He barely even puts memes in. Compared to the adhd slop that litters this platform, I like the occasional lighthearted joke here. Also you can tell he's from a different, more mature, less brainrotted time
I find most people's take on this odd, but perhaps I am the odd one. I thought his videos were getting less serious because Max was becoming more comfortable with himself, autism, and his public platform. I never got the impression that he is trying to appeal to meme culture. I got the impression that he was happy, legitimately happy.
Ah Rule of Rose, the game my mom bought for my then 10 year old sister because she saw a girl on the cover and though "yeah that'll do." To be a little fair, she did after buying it read the manual and it was replaced with the PS2 version of Harvest Moon. We still had Rule of Rose though so I played it one summer while bored and proceeded to laugh at the fact that it was meant as a gift for my sister. I didn't play much of Rule of Rose though because its well Rule of Rose, so its fun seeing it show up on this channel. She also bought my sister the game Red Ninja, which was a Tenchu clone, for the same reason.
hope your mom knows what a good investment she made $$$
I've founded the fork/knife as the best meele weapons just because it's more consistent hitbox
I also playthrough the game with fork - maybe that's why I didn't suffer too much from gameplay )
5:41 It seems the developers were inspired by the Spirit of the Beehive(1973) , the drawing here resembles the opening titles of the film. The film itself explores childhood and trauma, through the eyes of a child.
I like the gameplay of RoR hahaha. All you have to do is consider all its faults like something the developers did on purpose to accentuate Jennifer's vulnerability. I mean, for instance, why is she so slow? It makes sense, because she's only 9. Why can't she hit enemies? Because she's so afraid that she can't even look at them directly into their faces. Why is the combat system so bad? Because Jennifer is a 9 yo girl who suddenly finds herself in a hostile world which wants her dead. It wouldn't make any sense for her to have the fighting ability of a soldier.
Perfectly said. Like sorry Jennifer cant sweep kick those monsters like leon lol
none of that excuses bad hit boxes.
She's 19, not 9.
Then don't have a combat system, do something like detention where you have to go around the enemies instead of fighting them
Edit: like just don't have a combat system, have whatever bosses exist be a puzzle boss
Nah this is no excuse, silent hill games have a "bad" combat system on purpose but is still balanced and you can rely on it when you need it although it's always recommended for you to avoid using it . RoR was just bad and poorly executed, as Max even mentioned in the video the developers also recognized that, no matter what plot elements can justify it it's still a videogame and it needs to work as a videogame as well and not only as a storytelling media.
The game which tried to expose truths and got shunned for it... Likely the most grievous act it committed was bringing the airships and related "accidents" to the light. To this day I consider it the second most important horror game made after Drowned God (1996.)
On a related note important works which feature certain subjects and events have a funny pattern of being banned... or bad things happen to their creators.
I appreciate that you brought up the inherent differences in the bullying that girls/women will do to each other, I rarely see it brought up in videos going over the themes in Rule of Rose despite it being by FAR the most interesting aspect of the characters' relationships and the plot.
I can't help but see the scene where Brown is locked away in the shed as a metaphor for over-protectiveness (a link to Gregory's treatment of Joshua/Jennifer?)
He doesn't seem to want to wear the collar, and the chain yanks him back when he tries to follow after Jennifer. Then we hear what sounds like a metal bar being closed over the shed door, reminiscent of a prison cell, though we've already seen that in reality there is only a padlock. He will quite probably die in there. But at least he's "safe".
Its too late... I played it... And I loved it...
"This is like shooting someone in the leg for stealing a loaf of bread". I see Max hasn't seen Les Misérables.
"Rule of Rose is the Dark Souls of horror games."
- IGN, probably -
7/10
@@rishg134 “Too much reading”
Rule of Rose deserves some remake love.
Nah
For one - hope that never happens because they will remove some content (as usual when it comes to remakes/remasters these days)
two - there's almost no chance for that to happen
Jennifer is an unlucky girl for a reason: she'll never have a remake.
While i feel often indifferent towards remakes, a remake where it overhauls the gameplay would do this game massive justice...assuming they don't change the story for "modern audiences"
@@Vincent_Rabbit Of course they would. Do not cling to hope for no reason.
That would be the only remake that would make sense if done right
Rule of Rose was such a surreal and wonderfully frustrating game that absolutely punched me in the gut. I loved it. DO NOT recommend others to play, but definitely watch SOMEONE ELSE play it. It's so good.
The fact that you liked the music of The Talos Principle so much that you decided to use it in your videos Max makes me so happy, happy that there's someone that likes it as much as i do💜
Played it last October and with an actual copy on my PS2. I was fully aware of the gameplay problems so I was prepared but still wasn't good. The story was really worth it coming from a Silent Hill fanatic!
Side note: I only paid like $104 for my CIB copy of it and did get the pre-order bonus CD. Hopefully I'll never have to get rid of it since its now a treasure for my PS2 collection.
I found a copy in a bargain bin probably about a year or two after it came out. No pre-order bonus CD, but it only cost me about $19.
Honestly, I absolutely love Rule of Rose, warts and all and have given it multiple playthroughs. Yeah the gameplay is janky, but after a while, I found myself getting used to it. (The bosses really didn't give me too much trouble....however, THOSE GODDAMNED BIRDS! They were the worst 😹). However, there is just so much to love about this game. The soundtrack is wonderful and sets a great tone thought the game. Visually, the game is gorgeous. Storywise, it is engaging and I wholly agree with you, gaming studios no longer take risks like Rule of Rose, it's bad for business 🙄. Overall, I would describe Rule of Rose as "Beautifully Haunting". It is a game that just sticks with you, even long after it is over.
I'm happy you got around to checking this one out. This and Haunting Ground were interesting horror games on the ps2 and it always bothered me that they were banned in some regions. Ridiculous that themes were the problem. You don't really see horror games address issues like this much anymore in the AAA market. Keep up the solid work, there are still gems like those 2 trapped on the ps2 and other consoles with no official ports in sight.
2:55 I have the Reading Rainbow transition sound as my phone's notification alert, so this gave me a real jumpscare haha
Rule of Rose is a game I’ve never played but know well enough
It’s a story I wanted to learn and know more about
From the cutscenes, play throughs, reviews, articles, and Wikis
I remember walking through a GameStop and seeing a copy resting on the shelf
The reason it stood out is because it wasn’t like other games
From the cover art to the genre
That’s without knowing anything more than the box cover synopsis
Rule of Rose is a half baked game that would have been a lot more if it wasn’t for the premature release and bad press
Wake up babe, Max released a other masterpiece
Ive heard some pretty awful things about the siren combat being difficult and annoying as fuck, but I found out how to beat her pretty easily. I even did it a second time without having to heal more than once. Whats actually annoying is how long it takes
Sold my PS2 copy for $650 back during the pandemic when it was up there in value. I couldn’t believe a $10 GameStop game I picked up years ago would blow up like that.
Oh shit, I didn't expect my day to be this blessed.
quick, link me to the nsfw stuff I've missed in the vid
0:45 - song?
Wendy literally sacrificed herself to distract Stray Dog because she couldn't bear the thought of any harm coming to Jennifer.
My step mother was not a fan of video games, but tried them out because of my dad and I. That was until I found her staying up all night playing this game. She still talks to me about that game when I visit her, how no other game or movie or tv will tell a story like that.
Rule of Rose is the only game I have ever played that made me physically nauseous. It wasn't any of the imagery or gore. It was Clara. Realizing what had happened to her after the related boss fight, remembering the things I'd seen with her and Hoffman. . .I felt like I was going to vomit. It was the purest feeling of horror I'd ever experienced at that point in my life.
Silent Hill 4 is a great example of a great game that is bad. It has a lot of bad parts, but those parts actively suffocate you too, like the repetitive segments mirroring Henry's boring, repetitive life. Henry is portrayed as someone who isnt very interested in details in his life, also leading to confusing areas with little discerning features.
It's a hard piece of media to love, but dammit I do.
it makes you work for that love
@ericrhodes5174 earned, not given one might say
Another top notch video. Still love your sense of humor and the consistent uptick in quality. Just a positive thought for your feed.
I’m so appreciative of the walkthroughs and video essays on TH-cam because there’s probably no way I could play this 😅😮 thank you so much for your hard work here! I can’t believe this game came out 2 years after I graduated high school… I still have my copy but never finished playing this!
I gotta say Max Derrat is one of my favorite TH-camrs of all time. I'm always happy to see him upload a video. Even on a topic or game or whatever I'm not familiar with at all. It feels like a class on something
Max, have you ever heard of a game called Baroque? Is a PS1 RPG that i believe you would LOVE.
The scariest thing about Rule of Rose is the ridiculous price it fetches on the "collectors market".... And that I got rid of my copy for all the reasons you stated.
And yeah, you were dead on in line with my feelings on it.
From what I've gathered with this game, the best way to experience it is to just watch a playthrough rather than go through it yourself, so it's nice to hear you (pretty much) confirm that conclusion.
I see a sliver of myself in Amanda. Being the fat girl in school and not being diagnosed with autism until I was 16, I was ostracised and picked on because the other kids got an easy rise out of me. I can understand her doing the things she does in the game, becoming the bully as a means of survival. It genuinely makes me cry to see her suffer.
Very interesting! I've heard of this game in passing. Didn't know that it had that much depth
Wendy should be recognized as one of the epic antagonists of the horror game genre, but due to how unorthodox her staging and implementation was, many forget her importance in history and the heinousness of her actions.
2014 - 2024
Welcome back, Dark Souls 2 Hitboxes!
For me, if this was a horror themed adventure game, it would have been one of the best I'd ever played, but the combat ruins a lot of the game for me.
I remember reading an article about how they found a bunch of copies in italy. Was a couple months ago
I was in the top 0.3% of Max Derrat viewers this year on TH-cam recap :)
Story: 10/10
Soundtrack: 10/10
Gameplay: Hot Garbage
This is honestly a game that could do with a remake, but I don't think it's something we'll ever get unless some indie game devs that are dedicated fans get together and make it the game it should have been.
Fantastic game. So many layers. That acid vomit attack of the mermaid is really the girl's morning sickness. The headmaster is a creep.
Ahh what can I say about this masterpiece? Despite its shitty mechanics, it is one of my favorite games for the story layering and the feeling you get from playing. I was fortunate enough to buy this game basically when it came out and played it so much. I don't remember how many times I suffered thru the gameplay for the music and the story. I think this game is highly underrated along with Haunting Ground and Kuon.
I actually watched a playthrough of the game before most people started getting into it and talking about it. It wasn't until 10 years later that I'd see my first Rule of Rose retrospective, and I went "Wait, I know that game!"
surprised to see it here, but im happy it's getting more attention. It's a lovely game that I think I would have never been able to experience had I played it myself... and given how inaccessible it is, well, that wasn't very likely anyways
When you say "horror is one of the most subjective genres", do you mean that the question of whether something is horror or not has a subjective answer, or that the quality of any given work within the genre is subjective?
Max may also mean that certain topics and images may disturb, frighten or repulse the viewer, while someone else is giggling or bored with the portrayal 🤔, thus the subjective aspect
I think he meant both weirdly. So that horror itself is subjective to the viewer, as is the quality of said horror, based on that fact too. If a notoriously bad movie scares you genuinely, you might defend it higher than an acclaimed horror movie that you were not scared by at all or even creeped out by. Horror is a genre that plays on such a basic, human feeling and that's why it can be so varied, subjective and often so widely debated! Not to mention easy to relate to in a LOT of cases, without extensive amounts of effort towards that by writers. Scenarios themselves can be enough to sell the relatability without the details.
So yeah, horror is pretty damn subjective in more ways than one.
@JoannaSobczak-fm5ug yeah I would say that would be the former rather than the latter; since genre is descriptive, what might horrify me might amuse someone else. That wouldn't effect quality. If something is well-designed and well-written (with consistency, depth, consequence, logic, etc.) but has aesthetics that make some people laugh and make others spooked, it would still be objectively well-made aside from genre conventions. This sounds like a game that is in fact bad, but has a cool story.
@@Genasidal if the presence of something is subjective, then the quality of that thing must also be subjective, yes. I'm talking about the overall quality of the game rather than the quality of the horror.
Horror is in of itself subjective, because it elicits emotions and different people react emotionally differently to different horror aspects.
I learned about Rule of Rose through a video essay and sought it out immediately. It instantly became one of my top 5 favourite games. The storytelling, the symbolism, the characters, and music are top tier. Yes, game play is clunky and tedious (I view combat as bad because Jennifer is timid and weak, but that's not a forgive all excuse) My first play through was rough. Took a dozen tries to beat mermaid princess. It was easier on a second play through. Was able to one shot her. Like SH4, I don't ENJOY playing them per se, I actually kind of dread it, but I love experiencing them as a game in a way that I don't think I would have had they been movies. It's sad that people will pass on these games because of the gameplay. Highly recommend watching full gameplay videos at the very least. I'm such a HUGE fan of Rule of Rose, that all my friends pitched in to buy me a copy that will be my birthday and christmas gifts for the rest of my life lol.
I deeply and sincerely want this game to get a remake just because the story is excellent and the gameplay desperately needs a complete overhaul.
good video ! maybe you could talk about twinpeaks or america's mcgee alice games in the future ? i think it would be interresing
Oh my GOD, a Rule of Rose video!? Let's go!
16:44 If you posited the laborious monotony of this fetch quest to a Victorian child, they'd scoff at your lack of graft.
Normally, I'd say "skill issue," but having played the game for myself, I get it.
I wonder if this game will ever have a chance for a remake? It definitely has a cult following and it's hard to find a copy of it for a decent price now. Not to mention, the stupid controversy regarding the original might actually make people curious to try out a remake.
There was an interview with the founder of Punchline (which is the team that developed rule of rose) “Yoshiro Kimura” who founded a new company called Onion. He mentioned something along the lines that the odds of a remaster is 5%
@@Dopamiin3 Man, that's sad...
You've appeared just when I needed a good content!
There's also another game (which is not bad at all) that is deeply influenced by MGS, it's called Spy Fiction.
Wendy is one of my favorite videogame villains
What you said about story and other things not mattering in horror applies to every genre. That's why action films don't need good story either. As long as the action is good, story doesn't matter. About a mystery thriller, the action doesn't matter as long as the story is good. For some unfair reason action movies are judged by the non-action elements more than the action.
But the story *does* matter in horror though, especially if it's of the adventure and/or psychological variety.
@Stigmatix666 But not if it's scary enough to compensate. Now I actually like the story to Transformers, but even if I didn't, the special effects, CGI, set pieces, stunts, and fights are so cool that I would still love them. Honestly I've not enjoyd any action movies FOR THE ACTION as much as the first 3 Bayformers ever since.
I don't know how true it is but I remember reading somewhere that at least the majority of combat was basically only put into the game with a lot of rush because the publishers demanded it, and it would definitely make a lot of sense
Also, the game has like a ng+ system or a thing that tracks your saves, idk exactly what but I remember when I still replayed this game I would find less and less healing items, meaning it's best to delete your saves from the memory card if you plan on ever torturing yourself again
God I hate that this game is still so good
I came across Rule of Rose entirely organically. It was in a bargain bin at the local GameStop for less than ten dollars and the cover looked interesting so o bought it on a whim.
Boy howdy was I not prepared lol.
I really did like it. I did hate it for the same reasons describe here however it’s story, the uniqueness of it, and the subject matter was outstanding. Rarely is such a solid piece of Proustian art present
The philosophical GENIUS of Rule of rose
Silent Hill 4 is the only Silent Hill game I've played. I know that the first two are better, but I have no plans of playing them yet
I was 10 when playing it and I didn't finish it because how scary it was to me. After playing DOOM 2 when I was 5 in its entirety and playing HL1 at 7, the pure idea that there could be monsters that get up after being "killed" scared me immensely. I got so used to the fact that you leave no threat behind, that I was scared that I wouldn't be safe anywhere.
Great feeling for a horror
When i was like 30s i had a girlfriend much younger, like 18, and she wanted to play this game, not alone, cause she was freaking scared and dont get what to do. So we played together trading places. This is a game fun to watch, is like a novel or movie, its not a bad experience when you have someone helping. Its not so frustrating or boring... I had a great time, the gameplay its bad, but i remember the story and the concept more than anything, and the OST is gorgeous too...
But if you wanna play something more bad and broken and anticlimatic than this, try Nightmare Creatures 2, for a change...
As a collector who sought out a copy back before the 2020 pandemic hiked the price up I found the game worth it for the rarity alone, knowing why it was so rare and hard to come by makes it a unique item in the collection and something I sought after as a sort of holy grail for my PS2 library. I later played through the game on stream one year during the Halloween season and honestly I adored it, flaws at all. It was a short breezy playthrough that honestly left me wanting more of it. After playing I still think it's worth the $350 I paid to get a complete copy in pristine condition. Would I pay the modern average of 6 - 7 hundred for it? Probably not, least not on my current income. I wouldn't recommend anyone pay that price unless they're in the collector market honestly. But I 100% disagree with the video here, I think it is a game that people SHOULD play. I think the narrative is worth the slightly janky combat that I feel this video kind of exaggerates. It's not perfect by any means but it's not THAT bad. The strength of the story and the strong symbolism at play within it are more than enough to make it worth it. I feel the mechanics, as janky as they are, add to the feelings of disempowerment and fit with the themes and narrative of the game.
All that said, great video. Always nice to see this gem get more attention and appreciation for its story, regardless of the feelings on the rest of the package.
I feel your pain just LOOKING at that combat. Dear God🤦
The music in the background of the beginning of this video reminds me of American McGee's Alice! But I was 10 or 11 when I played it with my dad...
I remember having to go through this hassle to get a pair of scissors while ignoring a pair of scissors in easy reach on a table. Part of why I abandoned the game, that and it felt like a counterintuitive knockoff of Haunting Ground (I don't know the release dates, I just played that one first).
A NEW UPLOAD I'M LOCKED IN.
firstly let me start with school busses at night are not common but i lived near bear lake once and on the opposite side of the lake that the school was on .. i had to be ready and board the school bus at 3 AM and I got dropped off at my street at 6PM which in winter is indeed night time where we were.. so yes i indeed did ride the night school buss. which i have to say is way more unnerving than any day time school bus. even though i wasn't the last to be dropped off or picked up it was very unnerving being on a school buss so late. i remember one winter we had 5FT of snow and the snow plows just kept pushing the snow up my side street and they blocked my car in with a 10 ft wall of snow and my mom was laughing because she couldn't go to work but she definitely made us climb that snow wall to go to school. it was a long buss ride around that lake every day twice a day until i moved. but yes I'd say in rare occasions a night school buss ride does happen.
I get tired of the "the bullied/ab*sed only bully/ab*se in order to survive" trope. I & a dozen other kids I know from public school, were horribly bullied by other kids (& many ab*sed by parents) but never felt the need to hurt anyone else. That's no excuse to continue selfish, cruel behavior...
Well, today none-traditional, risky, unique projects also exist but mostly in Indie space. The last big risk taker in AAA space was Death Stranding.
The closing thoughts from my own retrospective was that this is among my list of all time favorite bad games.
Drakengard In my eyes was yokotaro being the most cheeky mofo he could have ever been in his life. He didn't even tell them about the ending until they were near the end of the development of the game He was being a massive troll but the funny part is it all ended up working somehow. So honestly he's a genius
Also EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 😂
I like brown mechanic, it's very unique, but everything else is 😅
The story tho, it really shaped my preference in stories and horror since this was my childhood horror game
It's a real shame that such a particular game, despite the extremely tedious and poorly refined gameplay, has been overwhelmed by a controversy born in my country, Italy, based on false news and a rough review of only the first few minutes of the game, which has irreparably stained not only the reputation of this game but also of its developer.
A scandal that has reached the European Parliament, leading to its removal from shelves throughout Europe!
A tragic story in every sense, both in the game and in real life! 😢
Apparently there were efforts to ban this game when it came out. Not surprising. Any media that touches on these topics tends to spawn an infinite sea of cretins that think it's obscene or something.
i find the story so compelling except for the part where wendy manipulates gregory, it smashes my immersion completely. i just can't suspend my disbelief on this child pulling off such a feat of brainwashing on an adult, even a traumatized one. it puts her on the same level with someone like johan from monster, who's supposed to be very nearly superhuman.
I’ll be honest, this was the only video of yours I didn’t click on like. I honestly think the people that made this game are sick in the head. Strictly because they expressed this through children.
I now question anybody that is obsessed with this game. I’ve seen many people loving this game but I didn’t know what it was about…until now.
Merry Christmas 🎄
I'd kill for just a steam port with no fixes. Modders could fix it. I bought it for $20. My little brother sold it at some point, and I bring it up to him at least once a year still.
Wish they had just done the Illbleed route for combat and just gave a dodge button with like 3 seconds of invincibility. I love RoR, but Illbleed will be my favorite horror for that button alone in klunky combat horror games
Yeah by the time you get to the end i have no sympathy for most those kids. This game i highly reccomend everyone to play at least once because the hype was real. And if u have trouble with the drunk controls and set up follow a guide to help ya. I wish i could own this game but that prices tag was a high tier pass for me
Strange. I looked for and watched a few rule of rose vids over the weekend, funny how things in life can be like that.
a bit weird to take a shot at QA teams when referring to how games nowadays are homogenous when their only input is often getting told to "fuck off" when they find a critical bug that bricks your computer on game boot up
Man it's been so long since I've played and finished this game, that I literally forgot how I managed to beat the bosses... 😅
Don’t forget the guy who made Chibi Robo and Captain, rainbow, and Tulip and moon rpg Little king adventure made this game
Mermaids, not even once.
bought it when it first came out. fought the mermaid, couldn't get past the bird of happiness.
I played it in the late 2000s and do not regret it.
"it's like shooting someone in the leg for stealing a loaf of bread."
yeah, everyone knows you are suppose to cut their hand off for that. Duh~
I have a copy (It was gifted to me a long time ago). Played it once. Keeping it like it's a bitcoin at this point.
*sees the dog*
Lisa Simpson: Not Brown! ....Brown! ...Brown! ...Brown!
Lisa, stop saying brown!