Chrono Cross - An Existentialist Masterpiece
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ค. 2022
- This game is second only to Xenogears when it comes to making a dense convoluted story. But like Xenogears, that convolusion is necessary to a degree in order to evoke original philosophical questions. Chrono Cross's concepts are unique and powerful, and you owe it to yourself to feel the enlightenment that they bring.
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What makes the themes you discussed even more incredible within the context of the game is how much choice you are given in gameplay. You CHOOSE how to set up your abilities. You CHOOSE what party members to recruit. You CHOOSE whether to use the chrono cross or not. Choice is embedded into every system. On the party members point imo this game gets wrongly criticized for that. It’s criticized for not having a developed cast but the point of the cast isn’t to be well knit. Unlike other classic jrpgs, the party members have their own lives they partake in outside the party. They don’t sit at a camp with you, they return to their lives when they aren’t needed and join when you need them. You CHOOSE to become invested with their side quests and stories (at least for the ones that have them). Masato Kato did brilliant work in making this one of the most thematically coherent games of its generation.
Which is an interesting facet considering literally everyone was having their strings pulled. And even the puller of strings had other higher entites pulling their strings. Every entity had their own plot and objectives, and were subverting one another the whole time. Fate to El Nido, Dinopolois to Fate, The Frozen Flame to Dinopolis, Gaspar to the Frozen Flame. And ultimatly, the one "choice" you make to jump from this determism to compatibilism is using the CHrono Cross to play the ancient melody of Life to save Schalla and prove that humans can coexist as part of Nature even though they are the offspring of Lavos.
The fact that one of the strongest characters is hidden behind a decision most people won't make -- either because it feels morally wrong or just because it's not expected in the common narratives of the genre to make the choice of abandoning a character to die -- marks this as an amazingly planned game.
the greatest one hasnt been made yet ;)
This is probably the most important game in my life. It was my first ever RPG, and it definitely shaped my future taste in games and stories in general.
In all my years playing this game, I'd never thought about it as an existential piece before. Thanks to this video, and thinking in retrospect, it makes sense now why I've always loved this story. I remember being young and thinking that the dialogue was so profound and beyond my comprehension (ignoring the fact I didn't speak any English at the time).
By the way, this game is also important because it was thorough it that I confirmed that I could finally understand the English language. I played it constantly during my childhood and my teenage years, but because English is not my first language, I spent years of my life with huge gaps of information about the story. And not just the story, gameplay as well. There were many occasions in which I couldn't make any progress because I literally had no idea what to do or where to go next. It was an incredible journey every time I would play the game because I would find and piece together new information about the story. When I finally finished it, I realized I understood the English language. Like I said, this is the most important game in my life.
Finally, the concept of the Dead Sea still sends shivers down my spine. Even now watching your video. It's the coolest, most scary idea I've ever heard of when it comes to time travel, realities, alternate dimensions, etc.
I cannot wait to replay the remaster. I bought it as soon as it came out, but other Than testing it out, I haven't had the chance/time to play it.
I fell you, a story similar to mine, I have a strong emotional connection to this game.
I love this game to pieces but kudos to you because I found the story difficult to understand and English is my first language.
@@annebright3852 It was crazy because, as a child, I would rely on my uncle (he's and English teacher) to translate some info. He's not into gaming, so it wasn't as if I could sit him down with me for 3 or 4 hours to explain everything.
He would tell me some things here and there. From there, I would use my imagination to fill the blanks.
Now that's from the perspective of the story. Imagine how hard was to figure out the combat system. Damn that was hard. I remember being stuck at Garai for weeks.
It was probably much more frustrating, but Now I can look back at that situation with fondness.
same, this game completely shaped how i love music. its also a big deal on how im interested in dimensional and time related topics
My story is similar.
This is also interesting, how this game spoke to a child, not only by words that I was not able to completely understand, but also by images, gameplay, and sounds. The emotional link led through the game. It was hard to understand, but this is not a sort of headache. It was challenge, curiosity, beauty, compassion to the characters and the world around with its multiple creatures, a unique atmosphere, what I would not find anywhere else. All together, it kept me in the game for hours.
It is my most favorite game, even in comparison with many other gems that I've played in my childhood and after. The soundtrack from Yasunori Mitsuda is a masterpiece itself, full of energy, emotions, and sound. I think it had its role in building of my personality and values.
But now I am also able to understand the story and connect everything in something logical, not only emotional. With notes of emotionality and nostalgia, I would be happy to play it once more, when I've grown up.
I remember trying to explain some of this game to people in highschool and everyone thinking I was crazy or even stupid. Now I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes remembering how amazing this story is and how much it affected me. I wish everyone could have found what you found in it. Thank you for the amazing video
Chrono Trigger and Cross are some of my favorite pieces of media of all time. Thank you for remembering and talking about them, it's nice to know that these stories that touched me also had an effect that continues to resonate with others out there.
Some stories hit so hard that never leave you, that's the case here.
This actually moved me to tears… I’ve always loved the Chrono series since coming across it as a kid but I didn’t realize just how wonderful it is
Knowing as much as i do about space, time and the history of earth and recent human history.... this shit is heady.
Squaresoft in the 90s was on some God tier level.
Right? Cross and Xenogears were light years ahead of any game as far as complex narratives. Especially Xeno. 90s square wanted you to marinate in some of these mind blowing twists. Even the original ending of 7 had me feeling that existential dread.
I've been hoping you would cover this game for years, and I'm so glad you did. I cherish this game and always feel melancholy when playing it or reading its story elements. Thank you for all the time and attention you put into this video.
Chrono Cross is the best PS1 game. No one can convince me otherwise, It helped me get through so much real world problems and I carry the effects of it with me even today.
Thanks for this video, really great work.
I am 46 years old. In the year of 199X Chrono Cross came out, and back then I was a huge junky for all things Squaresoft. Having played and loved the OG Chrono Trigger, this absolutely was a must have.
I’ve always harbored an incredible love and admiration for this game, and it sits right up there in the pantheon of critical games. Final Fantasy 6 and 7, Silent Hill 1, 2, and 3, Fallout New Vegas; the Legend of Zelda. If you’ve never played this game, please allow me to give it my highest recommendation. If you love a deep story, fantastic characters, and an amazing soundtrack, you will absolutely fall in love with this game.
Chrono cross is really a great game. Very good graphics when released, deep and complex story, huge amount of unique characters and the best soundtrack of all games.
"Devour to survive.
So it is, so it's always been"
I find it so interesting that it was the fact the humans came into contact with Lavos that they became capable of evolving into civilized beings, just like it was the fact that Adam and Eve came into contact with the serpent that led them to get out of Eden and eventually develop agriculture and civilization at the cost of suffering. Another parallel between Lavos and the Devil, in both stories it was the interaction with Evil that allowed humans to gain Knowledge.
Before I begin my counter point to your thesis I must argue with your use of the term 'fact' when speaking of the story, yes story of 'adam and eve in the garden of Eden'. Let's be clear what I have to say in no way is intended to question, degrade, insult, or make light of the traditions, beliefs and values you hold obviously dear to your life and heart. You believe whatever makes you happy and I shall do the same and we will both be content.
That being said, the story that you speak of has no more scientific or logical basis in fact then the story, yes a story of a mother sacrificing her life to save her infant child from great harm so that the infant could grow into a man and one day face that same darkness and overcome it to in turn save countless others from harm. That story I speak of is the whole 'harry potter's story broken down into a few sentences.
Now onto your thoughts on this video and I will focus on two points.
1. Your link between lavos and the Devil being evil. Now yes in the Judeo-Christian belief the Devi is the personification of and the cause of evil that may be, but in the Chrono trigger/cross games it is said that lavos is neither good nor evil, it was simply a parasitic lifeform that flew through space and crashed into earth in the time period 65 million. Lavos had no inherent malice or intent to cause harm. Yes it is possible and likely that if lavos was able to live out its normal life span without interference it probably would have drained the earth of it's energy to allow it to make lavos spawn to send out into space to start to entire cycle. Creatures l again in a new loop on a new planet.
@@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099 Hi, maybe it was a poor choice of words on my part, but it is a fact that Eve came into contact with a serpent within the story of Adam and Eve, just like it is a fact that Lavos fell into Earth within the story of Chrono Trigger and Cross. I was not making a point that the story of Adam and Eve itself is a fact in a fundamentalist sense.
I also agree with you that, within Chrono lore, Lavos is not evil in the sense that it does not bear malicious intent against humanity.
What I was referring to is a pretty old theory that Chrono Trigger draws inspiration from the Bible (Chrono dying and resurrecting, the three gurus being named after the three kings who visited Christ after his birth, etc.). In this theory it was also noted that there similarities between the story of Lavos falling on Earth and Satan falling from Heaven, so I was not the first one to compare Lavos to the Devil. I was just making the point that I found it to be extremely interesting that, in both stories, it was the contact between humanity and, let's say, their "enemy", or the "main villain", that was the causal factor that led civilization to develop.
@@LionHuntington @LimaLimaoLimoeiro I would first like to applaud you on not doing the thing religious people do when a religious viewpoint of there's is questioned, you know the 'how dare you say what I believe is wrong, I will pray for you to my Lord, and I don't have to explain why my belief is true it just is.
You provided a intelligent and thought out rebuttal to my position, well done.
I know of the fan theory that the three gurus in Chrono series were names after the three wiseman in the nativity story. I don't argue with that theory, it's just a theory a game theory lol. But the makers of Chrono series have never confirmed or denied that particular theory.
As for the wiseman in the nativity story, they are never actually named in the christian bible. Their names come from These names apparently derive from a Greek manuscript probably composed in Alexandria around 500, and which has been translated into Latin with the title Excerpta Latina Barbari. Just a little fun fact.
As to the second point I wanted to discuss in my first reply (it was 5am and I was falling asleep writing so I left it out) is your position that in coming in contact with 'red stone(what Ayla, Kino, and the prehistoric people in 65 million period called it) or as the Chrono crew called it dreamstone and lavos is directly what made civilization possible and through the corrupting influence of lavos war was born when the humans fought the reptites.
There was already a civilization on earth before lavos fell to earth. The reptites had a civilization and had a governmental power structure base in their sole leader Azala, they hunted and killed many humans and actively wanted to make humans into slaves of the reptite race or the make humans extinct. Evil, hate, and pain existed on the Chrono world before lavos ever fell from the sky.
@Pinkie Pie BIggest Fan You're right, it also crossed my mind that that was a contradiction because Ayla's prehistoric civilization already existed before the arrival of Lavos, so maybe it was Chrono Cross retconning the story, but I was referring to what Max said at 16:33
@@pinkiepiebiggestfan6099 Azala didn't go around exterminating early humans because she was evil she did so because of the law of "survival of the fittest" and her desire to allow the reptite race to be the dominant species of the Planet in order to avoid risk of extinction just it happens once Lavos conveniently crashlands right where the reptite civilization had their stronghold. "Evil" as an abstract concept may very well have been brought from the Heavens when Lavos crashed and he used his magic to evolve Humanity into a more intelligent state all the while granting them the abbility to harm one another out of sheer self-gain and greed. In this context both Lavos and the Frozen Flame can be seen as parallels to the Forbidden Fruit from Biblical teaching.
I always thought of the dead sea in this game as being stuck in trauma
I absolutely adore Cross. I played all 3 Chrono games this year. Even radical dreamers was awesome. Cross deserves so much more respect. Good video
Sorry all 3? Did I miss something? I thought Chrono break got canceled? 👀
@@jorgenjorgensen2739 He meant Radical Dreamers
I am so happy to see you cover my all time favorite game. I had played this game countless times for so many of the same reasons this vid talks about. I played this at a point of my life that really shaped my views on life. The story is not perfect, the battle system can be tough to understand, but the game brings so much I have not found in other games. I played the Chrono series backwards, so I could see where a lot of people wanted Cross to be like Trigger. But I feel like the creator made it a point to make it anything but. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this!
i would rewatch this again after i beat both games… this is enough motivation to continue finishing them.
I think the worst possibility is that there is no fate. That all the suffering we can possibly cause serves no purpose and no greater good, and that is the product of nothing but free will. We simply allow suffering for absolutely no reason at all, and we are the sole responsible.
Hey dude from the past. Thanks for saying that.
It may sound bad, but the idea of no fate is freeing to me. It pulls a weight of burdon off of me, and tells me all I have to do is try my best and do things that make me happy (Without hurting others). I see it as a relief.
I hope things are going well for you bud.
Max, thank you. Especially on your repeated words in CT, "the greater the risks, the greater the reward.."
I am currently facing a crisis in my head and everything seems about to fall and break but thank you for giving me a glimmer of light in my world that is already drowning in absolute darkness.
Thank you and sorry, Max.
Well that one took a turn 😩
@I am trying, I’m sorry to hear about your struggles friend. I will pray for you to Christ the Lord.
Hang in there bud
@@jjcoola998 thinking of doing that actually. The hanging.
@@iamtrying2690
I believe the comment you replied to was meant to lift you up. I see that was five months ago. I hope you're alright.
This may sound terrible when I explain it but back when I was younger and first beat the game I felt I had a solid understanding of what properly using the Chrono cross would do. All conflicts would cease, the dimensional rifts would repair and become one world again, one new time line. I saw it as a reality of strangers unaware of what had transpired, a world incapable of graduate for the peace hard fought for. Achieving true peace would wipe from existence all the trials and tribulations so many had strived through since time immemorial. And just like some people died in one time line while being fine in another how would the perfect world weigh life? Would every life live when in one world circumstance a rose where they could never be conceived? How would it decide that when choice should be equally valid. To simplify the macrocosm of the situation to a microcosm lets take the fisherman in Arni village for an example. In one world he stays a fisherman and lives a satisfying life, in the other he takes up mysticism and fortunetelling, in doing so he is poor, distanced from his family and ultimately wasting his life. We can bring to him a change of perfective that he should reevaluate his life to change his course for the better. Now I bet unanimously everyone would agree the fisherman life is objectively the best for all parties concerned but would not forcefully shearing this conflict out of existence be killing one version of this man? And to that what if there was an even BETTER life the fisherman could have been living from another missed choice he could have made so existence equally runs the chance of invalidating and removing the life we all agreed was best a moment ago. Wouldn't this perfect world be no different if not more restrictive from FATE's design? Could I as Surge subjugate reality, gloriously imperfect as it was to being this unnaturally sanitized and scrubbed stranger world into being? I as Surge would be genociding two states of existence to make a third. Remember, I was a kid at the time and this game was blowing my mind with this concept.
Killing one life , Schala to keep the world as it was is an ultimately selfish choice, even then I knew that. But 20 years plus later I'd still make the same choice to not use the Chrono Cross, it felt more like being the Assassin of time that Lynx spoke of than the Chrono Trigger he had called Surge originally. The true ending cutscene where Schala/kid is searching for presuming Surge did nothing to assuage my choice after the fact, it didn't show harmony, didn't show the beast races and humans at peace. It was just modern day civilization, likely with the same problems, pollution, deforestation, mass slaughtering of animals to fulfill the needs of hunger and economy. But it is presented as the best outcome. Two time lines, two words, two states of existence gone, undone for this? I just wouldn't take that chance.
That what make me dislike this games ending. You didn't really save anyone or anything. Just reset the world to a non time hoping one. As you end all other species but human. A ungodly amount of live killed/unmade from other timeline. To stop a super tick that will eat existence. But Lavos is from somewhere. He's a product of the universe. Meaning it will show up anyway somewhere. You didn't stop the end you just changed the when and where.
I think playing Nier: Replicant/Gestalt would better put your dilemmas into context.
@@zid9611 and isn't that a beautiful thing?
a game that debates existentialism in so many ways and talk about so many heavy issues couldn't end in a better way, it wouldn't make sense to have a happy ending with everyone hugging each other for a happy photo at the end of the game
and just to be clear, the scene of kid looking for "serge" is not canon, the real ending ends with the picture on her desk showing a possible wedding between her and serge
lavos is dead, I think this is a fair trade, one dimension/world for the life of a being that could completely destroy everything, we will never know what actually happened with the characters of the two dimensions, but one thing we can be sure, they all agreed on defeating lavos(or dragon god) even knowing that the world would never be the same, it was not serge/the player who made this decision for them, it was not a selfish choice
And that, folks, is why the Chrono saga is one of the best gaming sagas ever written.
Top 3 best gaming sagas ever made, at least on a philosophical sense.
Agreed. I love stories with more philosophical themes rather than pure melodrama. I love drama when its used at the right moments but not at every plot beat.
Fantastic video, I agree with the theme of existentialism. The archipelago built on the oppression of dragons and filled with intergenerational trauma for the hopes of a "better" world backs up those claims. I think the fact that the final battle must be won without violence for the good endings blends the story and game mechanics together which is akin to the ingenuity of the psycho mantis battle in MGS. The exclusion of violence here fulfills the moral beautifully while also bridging the gap in cognitive dissonance, a promise that many RPGs fail to deliver.
The way the Time Devourer needs to be properly defeated can also be seen as being in line with Chrono Cross's "makes you really think" message, in contrast to the simplistic idealism of Chrono Trigger: while fighting Lavos in CT involves hunkering down with offensive and defensive Tech combos, fighting the Time Devourer in CC requires following a sequence instead of resorting to mere brute force, in order to earn the true ending.
Thank you Max for covering my favorite game of all time. Cross is a graceful sequel, not too much in your face, yet not subdued either. It’s sublime, subtle and profound. A great work of the highest caliber. It’s like playing through a dream, like Yesterday manifested to Paul in one of his dreams. I may be exaggerating but it’s that much it means to me.
Max, I've been following you for the last 1½ or 2 years, and as always I'm deeply moved by your work, seriously... I even burst into tears in the last couple of minutes by reasons unknown to me.
I LOVE YOUR WORK, there are no other words to describe my feelings towards it, you and Jordan Peterson are the most meaningful living strangers in my life, I don't have anything else to say, except: Keep the good work and STAY YELLOW!
this is by far the best analysis of Chrono Cross
I didn't think I could love Chrono Cross more than I already did, and then you released this video, reaffirming and expanding my love for one of the most misunderstood sequels in gaming history.
I just watched your Chrono Trigger video from two months ago and lo and behold, the next day, I got a follow up. Got lucky on thia timeline. Great video. The lore of Chrono Cross *is* convoluted but you're able to get across the poignant points the game went to explore. Makes me want to go and play the game again
THIS Right here was the most beautiful explanation to give thr meaning of the story about Chrono Cross. thank you.
I loved this game as a kid, I replayed it over and over trying to figure out how to recruit everybody. I think Glenn is still my favorite.
wtf, i just looked up chrono cross for some lore while i drive and this video is so recent. nice to see people still caring about this game decades later
Have always been a huge Trigger fan, remember hating Cross when it came out. Gotta say though, I played the Switch re release and I fell in love with it. Trigger is still my favorite game of all time but Cross is pretty great too
played this on my ps1 back in the day and was real impressed with the graphics and crazy story
This was a beautiful explanation of this game i grew up playing it and trigger you did a great job you even helped with some pionts i couldn't understand as a kid makes me wanna go back and replay it
As a fellow autistic person, I have found your videos' description of themes and mechanics to be on level with my own way of thinking.
It makes understanding and analyzing the information you give a convenience instead of a discomfort.
Reading the comments and watching the video has helped validate and put into words what I’ve felt about this game for so long and I’m so happy I’m not the only one who feels this way:
Chrono Trigger is my favorite game of all time and maybe the best ever made, and while chrono cross is not my favorite game of all time, nor even that excellent of a game overall (technically or minute to minute storyline) it’s such an important and impactful game. I can now answer to myself why I’ve played chrono trigger countless times over the years, but only replayed chrono cross maybe a handful of times. It’s deep, it’s heavy, and leaves you pondering existence rather than the triumphant feeling from eradication of the “bad guy” in chrono trigger.
So even though it’s not my favorite game, and there are lots of times during this game where it feels like a slog and it’s tedious and time consuming to get to something interesting…every time I DO play it, I FEEL the game in my bones and it is unbelievably impactful every play through (the soundtrack helps with that too!). Maybe what I’m saying is, it takes a great emotional toll on the player each time you play it (for good and for bad) and you truly experience the journey so that’s why I’ve played it less frequently than, say, chrono trigger.
Thanks for reading.
This is probably the most digestable form I've seen anyone explain Chrono Cross's themes. And considering how convoluted the game is, that is saying A LOT.
Every aspect of your videos from subject to narration and production are fantastic.
Thanks!
It's very jarring to have your decision to save the world, to be free, to be a hero be put into question. This is indeed a masterpiece
I've been waiting for this one. I love Chrono Cross, and I've spent hours upon hours connecting the dots to Trigger's story. I'm only 7 minutes into the video so far, but I'm really hoping you are able to pick up on a lot of those as well. (15 minute edit: Oh yes)
Now I have to play this series and learn more about existentialism.
"I have had a constant dread in my heart that someone in our new future will travel back in time just like we did and try and kill or capture my friends and me."
This makes a better case for Chrono Trigger to be the game to get the REmake treatment than FF7. Since FF7 original isn't about time travel so the time travel that Aerith and Sephiroth are doing doesn't fell as organic as it would in a Chrono Trigger REmake.
@Alatar the Blue tl;dr. Not trying to start rants over here. Just making a simple point.
@Alatar the Blue no you wanted to ramble on and used my comment as the jumping off point. Cash grab, after literally 23 years?
@Alatar the Blue you having fun over there bitching at the corner.
Btw tl;dr again.
The word "somehow" appears too often in that plot summary.
This is an amazing video. I just finished the remaster. I hadn’t played it since I was like 10 years old. I can’t imagine wtf I thought was going when I first beat it lol.
Chrono Cross is probably my favorite RPG of all time . Yes that even includes Final Fantasy 13 _2 and other more modern RPG's . The story as complicated as it is holds a special place in my heart and mind . Chrono Cross as it is just a game has a lot of truth in it . I am not sure if I fully understand the games message or if i understand everything that happened in the story . I admit that I got emotional during parts of this game especially when you you back in time and save kid from the burning building and then she hugs Serge and Serge disapears . This game had a huge impact on my life . This game really made me think about some of the harder questions . People say how playing video games rot your brain and make you stupid and what not but I would say just the opposite . A game like this really keeps your brain from rotting .
👏👏👏
I can't tell if you're joking or not. Ff13 🗑️
I just purchased this game for switch. I’ve completed this game on PS1 and now playing the remastered version.
This game brings back memories when I was still living with my parents. Love this game and Chrono Trigger.
The music, artwork and gameplay are great. Trifecta. ❤❤❤
Watching this, i realized i played a TON of existential themed games and stories in my teens. They essentially created the path i walked towards my present self. I feel like i must replay those games in my adult years because i have a newer perspective of life from the time i originally played.
I want to play that kind of games too, can you give me a list please? 😊
MY FAVOURITE GAME!!! Thanks Max.
One of my favorite games EVER! So underrated and looked over too
I really enjoyed Cross as a teen. I absolutely loved the music, I loved the vibe, and I loved and still love the parts that feel like secret knowledge about the story of Trigger. Also the creepy frozen-in-time area.
Lol I think I still remember the secret pattern: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue, Black, White, Rainbow.
Of course, I also love FF6 and FF8 just as much as FF7.
I just wanna say that you’re one of my favorite TH-camrs and I absolutely adore your content. I remember I showed your videos to the rest of my family bc of how much I enjoyed them myself. That being said, I was wondering if you’ve heard the album Everywhere at the end of Time. It’s a experience like no other, and if you haven’t listened to it, I highly recommend it. It’s six hours long, but definitely worth it
developers and studios definitely don't make games as heady as this one was. It was a masterpiece in story telling despite it being convoluted like you said. But that convolution is what played into the themes and story of the game. I recently played this again for the first time in almost 15 years. Now I need to get back into Chrono Trigger. Another classic.
Note:
The Dream Devourer did not exist in the original Chrono Trigger.
This was one of the things added to the DS release in 2008, as one of a couple of elements added to the game to help it tie into Chrono Cross better. The DS was the basis of the Android/iOS version, which in turn was the base for the version currently on Steam.
While I personally somewhat dislike this (as well as just about everything else the DS version tacked on), as I understand it the elements added to _CT_ were drawn verbatim from elements baked into the story of _Chrono Cross.
This would make it less of a retcon and more of a clarification.
You mean to tell me you didn't have fun in the Lost Sanctum, running up and down that mountain countless times fighting unavoidable battles? I bet you don't like doing pointless fetch quests either
@@HyperDefective
As annoying as the Lost Sanctum was, for some reason the thing that bothered me the most was the fact that the people who designed the encounters for those areas totally ignored the sound design of the rest of the game, and just used that one 'doink' sound for fucking everything.
The added elements were created retroactively to help link the games together, but the interesting part about it is that the link was made AFTER both games, which gives it the ultimate control over how to tackle the loose ends. But yes, it's definitely a clarification, but Trigger and Cross were vague on purpose, and already built upon those themes enough that it would allow that link.
P.S.: The animated cutscenes for the PS1 version of Trigger, also used on the DS release and later ports, were also made after both games.
Chrono Cross was always a truly excellent game that never deserved to be called an inferior follow-up to Trigger, and certainly never deserved a single ounce of hatred.
It is exactly the grand adventure, and existentialist exploration, that it was intended to be, and better yet, tied into Chrono Trigger in excellent ways that were foreshadowed by the game itself (like the baby Lucca finds at the end of the game, and later on in the DS remake the subtle canonization of a certain rumored character's return.) And sure enough I'm mostly hearing higher opinions of Cross over time, much like how Metal Gear Solid 2's reception (and later Death Stranding's reception) steadily grew warmer and warmer. This was a game that flew in the face of its fans' expectations by eschewing the usual "same game, but a little better" cliches of the average sequel, and in true Chrono form, did something truly exceptional instead. A subversion, yes, but in exchange for something mostly of equal, and at times greater, value.
You managed to distill everything I liked and still like about Chrono Cross, without getting into the obvious (its beautiful art direction, its wide variety of places to explore, its god-tier music, its sense of sheer wonder). Really well done video.
Did you realize the ultimate ending by activating the frozen flame correctly against time devourer by placing the element field into a certain order and you find out kid is schala and all that stuff from chrono trigger is resolved
Not ALL stuff from Trigger is resolved mind you: Dalton is STILL ALIVE leading the Porre military to take over the world. Chrono Break will have to solve such a plotpoint for the story of Trigger to wrap up.
One detail regarding the character of Guile: He is supposed to be Magus' new identity after her failed to rescue Schala in Chrono Trigger. The developers explained in an interview that there was supposed to be a storyline in Chrono Cross where it is revealed that Guile was Magus all along, but that it was finally decided to have it removed from the game.
It's in the Radical Dreamers port. You have to beat cross and Radical dreamers, then watch the credits.
Cross's combat would've had a much warmer reception if it didn't leave so much of its workings completely unexplained, you could skip/speed up element animations without NG+ and if they'd picked any other regular battle theme. The system itself is fine but way players interact with it has SO MUCH friction.
Second one is fixed in the Radical Dreamers edition
I remember not liking the combat system was the main reason I put this game down and never finished it when it was new.
I can't understand why the battle theme is so underwhelming. That guy makes insanely good music.
What mechanics are unexplained in the combat?
Huh, it kind of mirrors the thing about that life is a game in which we don't know the rules or something like that. I don't know, I haven't played this game, I plan to do it someday.
I love this take on my favourite game. You give the themes of the game justice. Much love!
I get that we liked it when we were kids. I did too, I was 14 and this was deep. I didn’t know much about storytelling structure at the time. But “masterpiece” is such a stretch for Cross that even a professional contortionist would be impressed.
Cross feels like a game that wanted to be something else, but then was reminded that it had to be a trigger sequel in the 3rd quarter of development. There were good ideas here about choices and branching worlds-but then it had to be about time again by the time you get to Chronopolis.
Too many characters just inflated the cast to boring, pointless drivel. Magus gets removed, but we got Fungi, Draggy, and neoflow.
Trigger is a masterpiece. Cross is a mangled mess of too many ideas that aren’t properly explored, nor explained.
Thank you. If you think CC has good writing, you need books in your life.
This is, just like many other,s the game that has moved me to choose most of the important things in life.
Just after seeing your alchemist take on FMA, i was recommended with your CT analysis. And then, jumped right back to Chrono Cross...
If anyone was able to math the appreciation for this games' existence, was you.
Your eyes must be beautiful, as your perspectives are too.
Thank you. Great video.
Context and perspective really mattered ultimately when it comes to confronting the realization of the intricacies and nuances of the fate[s] we were supposed to "defy." If anything, CC showed that, simply put, we (both players and characters) really don't know jack about those contexts and circumstances, and the "necessary sacrifices" and compromises we have to make in determining fate as the supposed _victors writing history,_ that is all rooted upon the issue of Lavos, and upon the question if removing Lavos from the equation would really make the world and humanity better and less destructive going forward. We often see the "nothing is black and white" argument when it comes to conflict and warfare, when in reality it also applies all too seamlessly on pacifism, humanism, and altruism.
And that's where the **cough cough** Spec Ops: The Line analogy/comparison kicks in: would it be better for Crono, Marle, and Lucca to instead focus on their goal of returning to their time period and respect history however grim it would be, much like how it would have been better for Walker, Adams, and Lugo to focus on their reconnaissance mission (and beforehand, for Konrad and the Damned 33rd Battalion to withdraw from Dubai) and stand down against situations along the way however urgent for those in need there, with all things considered with both games and our would-be impulsive actions to those respective scenarios?
The grueling journey of CC (and the series as a whole) was both a Kobayashi Maru (which in this case, unlike what Kirk did there, *can't be cheated/worked around)* and Apollo 13 scenarios, as we discern what we can't change or save, try to navigate out of our messes as much as possible, and find and sustain acceptance along the way; that as you best put it, _it's how we face, accept, and deal with that fate,_ under its own terms. There is no place for naive, absurdist idealism there, like Pod 042's "a future is not given to you" ethos at the end of Nier: Automata, or the much-glamorized simplistic heroism of CT.
It is a given and a safe assumption that CC's development was hampered by constraints on time, personnel, and bureaucracy that led to what the final product is as we know it. But the essences of its messages were defiantly delivered largely intact, quite in the spirit of Masato Kato's frank vision for the franchise that all started with how he handled the entire Zeal arc during CT's development.
SuitlessRun's video on CC was quite the eye-opening take on how we fans treated the game and its legacy, and when he said there that there are things in the game that should be better off left unexplained in the end, he meant that CC (in constrast to CT's conclusion) has now forced us to really think and reflect hard for ourselves about the series' world, what we have done throughout the games, what we make of them, "what now?" moving forward, and what those say about us players in the real world. This game isn't there to make us feel good with a closure about "everything becoming better now with everything saved."
Chrono Trigger was eventually no longer the same for me once I had paid attention to Chrono Cross, not just for what the latter is, but for what it said about the former. CT's hero systems and overall charm have effectively aged like unpasteurized milk in the face of the more profound, self-reflective storytelling and themes of CC, to the point that CT had seemed virtually unplayable for me now.
But I have made my acceptance with that experience and decision, that Crono and gang were not heroes, humanity was pretty much the real threat, our characters are pretty much definitively dead (and any attempts to save them will open new cans of worms on the flow of time), and that it's time to move on from the series (as what Kato had told us), as I try to make the most out of accepting that "fate" in enhancing our collective understanding on what CC is on a meta level, I suppose.
Thanks for this video, i play chrono cross when i was 10 years old... obviusly at that point of life i didn't get a lot of things in the game but i tend to revisited the game from time to time, so i grew old with this game and every time i play again hits me differently and stills amazed me. Thanks again to explaing this that beautifully.
Before I had the words for it, I felt the existential themes in Chrono Trigger and Cross upon playing them. I can't see how anyone could honestly play either game and not understand that. Then again, If I look around it's easy to see people that are willfully, or innocently missing the point. The remedy for which is experience, because once you know --there is no going back to what you once were.
*Watches chrono trigger video yesterday*
"Oh damn, sweet channel. Subscribe."
*Chrono Cross video the very next day.*
Your Channel Is An Existentialist Masterpiece
:3
@@maxderrat ^.^
This is hands down, one of my favorite games ever. I played this before having ever HEARD of Trigger. I could be the only person in the world who was underwhelmed by Trigger, having played this first.
My new favorite channel. I'm so happy you have made so many videos on the intellectual and artistic value video games can have, you explain it so much better than I could to someone who assumes all games are just toys for children. I love your insight, and thank you so much for providing so much content!
Great Video. Thank you so much for putting in effort to create this and sharing it. I appreciate the insight :)
Another great video, thanks Max. This helped me think a bit more clearly
Love your videos man, one of the most interesting youtubers I’ve ever seen
Well done, Max. Excellent, truly.
have you ever seen Virus Buster Siege? Its super obscure and odd, but I knew there is something there. The show is deep, and symbolism heavy.
Personaly i find story of Chrono Cross absolutely fascinating ,due to the way it combines both fantasy and scifi elements , thoe i do agree it is ryly complicated , having played the game as 12 years old kid and now many years later as an adult i can clearly see how many diferend conceps merge togather to form sutch unique story.
Replaying this game recently during the remaster was the only time I started to get the plot of this
How is some of this even a question?
"Do we have the right to-" stop. Yes. Yes we do. If everything is going to end because of an evil Lovecraftian asshole then, yes, any and all sacrifices are objectively worth it since quite literally nothing will matter once the Lovecraftian bug wins (and similarly, nothing before it matters since sacrificing nothing means everyone and everything is just mindlessly building towards letting evil win anyways, thus everything that ever happened being meaningless). You ALWAYS choose the option that leads towards things continuing longer as that gives the propagation of life and the prosperity of happiness a chance. The ONLY time this isn't true is if something (anything, it doesn't matter what) continuing leads to objectively more suffering that's impossible to overcome (like if, say, beating one Lovecraftian horror leads to a second worse one that has zero chance of being beaten). It's, of course, virtually impossible to know if something continuing will lead to this sort of dead end though without some sort of omnipotence. But if you're that omnipotent the universe you're a part of probably wasn't going to lead to a painful dead end anyways.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is rarely ever true since there's no real way to tell in most cases when something affects more people than it doesn't, one of the few exceptions being cases of complete species or universal extinction like the Chrono series. And in those very rare exceptions the objective answer is always "do whatever it takes to continue on". Saying otherwise is literally just being contrarian as there's absolutely no GOOD reason to do otherwise. The only reasons against it all boil down to some sort of nihilism, or self-fellating bleeding heart nonsense that immediately get discarded into the trash bin. Again, this was all needlessly forced as the correct line of thought is ALWAYS the following-
"Will saving X thing just lead to X thing plus Y more stuff being destroyed? If no then saving is the correct answer".
In other words, saving something is ALWAYS the correct answer unless you SOMEHOW know that saving it will just lead to equal or greater suffering. And, at the end of the day, if some weirdo disagrees with saving the thing in question then they have the right to exercise their free will to make you fail in doing so. Just as you have the right to stop them from stopping you.
@Alatar the Blue ¿You do know that as of the ending of Chrono Cross Dalton (the one-eyed, eyepatch-wearing, comic relief piece of crap villain from Trigger) is still *ALIVE* leading an Empire in his quest to take over the entire Chrono world? (El Nido included) Unless we get yet another sequel to Trigger in order to explain away his fate after he left the Dimensional Vortex and manipulated the people of Porre into forming an Empire we'll never get a proper ressolution to his lingering storyline and wathever evil deeds he commited while conquering the world.
Thanks you for the out look I never thought of. You made game already loved that much deeper.
Its always good to see these pieces.
There are a lot of subtle secrets to life and metaphysical data on npc scripture.
There is a reason they call it the dead sea, or have 3 wise men.
The only other title I could think of is legend of legia.
Its not so grand in terms of existantialism but to someone such as yourself it would make a refreshing pace.
Best played on an emulator so you can fudge a slot machine.
what a phenomenal video essay, id love to hear you break down the trigger and cross synopsis sometime if possible!
I played this game by 10 years old when my brother presented it to me. In that time I could not even read the sentences, I'm from Brasil, so I don't speak english, but even so, I always had that feeling of something cosmic behind the history. I remember of crying a lot when I finished the game without even knowing why. This transformed me completely, I started to read abouth chemistry and physics on all my free time, even in the intervals between classes. With 13 years I was studing black holes, supernovas, metaphisical concepts abouth the beginning and the end of the universe and trying to understand quantum and relativistic physics. This, of course, leaded me in several existential crisis and to the philosophy of existentialism. Today, I am completing my PhD in geodesic science and I can assure you, with all my soul, that this is a consequence of playing this game and Chrono Trigger several times in childhood and adolescence.
Thank you for this video, I'm a big fan of your channel.
I also have to say that the soundtrack is wonderfully composed in a way that calm the mind. By the seventeen, I was reading about sleep paralysis, lucid dream and astral trip, the spiritualists call it like that, and talk about a silver rope which connects the body and mind. I'm completely skeptical about it, but in that day I really tried to leave my body by following some basic principles of meditation. I laid in my bed completely naked with a intra auricular fone to isolate all noise and focused on my breathing. Throughout the song Leaving the Body, which I highly recommend you to hear, I was able to turn off all my senses and access something between the lucid state and the dream. I stopped the experience because I was scared of what was happening, my body was feeling hot flashes and I felt sunk in the bed, like I was falling into an abyss. That day I discovered that there are some parts of the mind that are very strange, not feeling anything and being aware is something really scary.
Lucca's letter to Kid should have been how Samurai Jack ended.
Absolutely awesome!!
Watching this video, the intro words make a whole lot of sense.
I really appreciate the amount of thought, effort and passion you put into your videos, my dude. :)
5:10 - that's basically the message of Kierkegaard
Yes, a new max video. You are slowly becoming my favorite content creator
I highly recommend you play Another Eden if you want a spiritual successor to the themes, questions, and style of this game. Masato Kato has proven that he knows what he is doing, and Yasunori Mitsuda even did some of the songs on the soundtrack!
I would argue Another Eden is one of the few mobile games worthy of being called a JRPG. Yes, there is an optional gacha mechanic, but the game is totally playable with the free roster. The character quests are top notch, and the story is just insane. Almost blows Chrono Trigger and Cross out of the water! I just wish the presentation was at the same level, but it is a mobile game, after all.
What an incredible breakdown. Thank you
I’ve been recently finally playing this. It is a pretty interesting ahead of it’s time story
Great video, and the idea about destroying another existence to save our own reminded me of Johnathan Hickmans Avengers run. Where Incursions happen, and the 'heroes' need to decide what to do about it.
I've always been puzzled about CC. The developers said time and time again that it was not a sequel to CT, that CC was (and is) its own game. However, it is impossible to consider this game totally independent from CT.
Chrono Cross, top 10 games of all time. I'm glad you made a video on it!
Wow generous.
It's my opinion. I loved the story. Nostalgic glasses admittedly.
Love your vids. Been hooked after a couple vids
Thank you so much for your kind words! Lots more awesome stuff coming down the pipeline.
Once you get past the expectations of Chrono Trigger, Cross is an amazing story to experience
You know this is going to be good if this GUY is making the video
Chrono cross seems to tap into something referenced in fate grand order's lostbelts, where you have to destroy historical dead ends where each try to survive.
If Lavos is a personification of evil. And Schala is the human trapped in evil. Then the Chrono Cross represents redemption. Only through redemption can the human being be saved from evil without being destroyed along with evil. Just as the Christian Cross of redemption via the atonement provided saves believers from sin.
Beautifully executed video my friend 😃 thank you
I always wait til the end before I like a video, well deserved 👏
I know Serge is canonically pronounced Surge, but I always said it like Sergei as a kid.
I agree that Chrono Cross had one of the most ambitious messages among games of its time, and it's still one of my favorite RPGs, but I don't think it really stuck the landing with the final “textposition.”
Schala tells us that every human being is important. My deepest instinct is to immediately agree with her, but she never supports that statement with anything concrete. Making that argument is perfectly possible, but Chrono Cross stops just short of supporting it.
A piece of media doesn't necessarily need to provide answers in order to ask good questions, though. I just feel that it would have been better to show what happens in the story while leaving those questions hanging in the air.
Answering them by speaking directly to the player through Serge was less effective. The people who made Chrono Cross are no more qualified to definitively answer these questions than any of us, though they are equally welcome to try.
I grew up with FF6 and CT and was out of console games by the time CC came out. I played it for the first time this month and it was fun.
Obviously, I don’t have the nostalgia factor like many of you do but… I wish I did.