I just completed the Water Temple for the first time yesterday. It was pretty fun. The hardest and most confusing part for me was actually the final boss. I thought I wasn’t doing any damage just by hitting the ball and that the game wanted me to throw the ball at the spikes on the wall. It’s true that the boots are a bit annoying to put on and take off, and that they should’ve been a C-button item, but that’s about my only complaint next to the ball not turning red when damaged. The dungeon layout isn’t hard to figure out if you just use the in-game map. Same as _the key_ - you just look at the map to find the chest you haven’t collected. It was the key under the tower for me. I missed the hint in the cutscene initially, but I realized there was a room under the tower that I haven’t been to, and I figured out how to get there once I watched the cutscene play out again. Also, if you close the menu with the start button instead of B, it won’t ask you to save every time.
Hm I never even thought about the boss like that. I could see how that would be confusing - why else would all the spikes be there...glad you were able to figure it out! Yeah I know about the start instead of B thing but the B button is just so much closer! 🙃
Nah man i cant agree. Ofcourse as an adult, none of this is particularily difficult BUT even for me, someone with exceptional 3D visualization and spatial awareness, as a kid this was a slog.
@@CoNteMpTone I found all the adult dungeons hard as a kid. I got stuck on Amy’s block puzzle in the Forest Temple, barely made any progress in the Water Temple, and went nowhere in the Shadow Temple because I couldn’t get the Lens of Truth as a consequence of not beating the Forest Temple. I never even reached the Spirit Temple at all. The only one I beat back then was the Fire Temple, a contributing factor to why it’s my favorite dungeon in the game.
As someone who played the water temple for the first time in 9th grade, I think a lot of the issues were as a result of kids in elementary school not wanting to put the effort into learning the temple or just autopiloting the first part of the game/not recalling tricks from the first part of the game. Things like reshooting the eye switch in the forest temple to untwist the corridor or breaking the cobweb in Deku Tree are preludes to it. If we all played it at an age when we had the patience to untangle it, I think it would be less hated.
Exactly, the water temple ideas aren’t really new. They’re like 30% more complex at the most. Yet people act like the Water Temple is this horrible confusing and misleading trial when if they were logically expanding their ideas from previous dungeons, they would eventually figure it out.
I'm on a playthrough of OOT where I'm doing the temples out of order. It was suprising to find out how the game does basically nothing to prevent you from going to the fire temple or ice cavern+water temple first, other than telling you the forest temple is the place to go. So I did the water temple first and had a terrific time up until I got to the place where I needed a key and the two last keys were both locked behind eye switches that you need the bow for. Dissapointingly, I had to give up and left to clear the fire temple instead. It's really cool that the game lets you do so many things out of the intended order, so I don't get what these two random eye switches were for.
@@LittleBeanGreen Yeah, I think it has a very good ballance between linearity and nonlinearity. From the moment you clear the Deku Tree, you have access to so many parts of the map; Hyrule Field, Lost Woods/Forest Meadow, Castle Town, Lon Lon Ranch, Lake Hylia, Kakariko, Death Mountain and Gerudo Valley entrance, even if it's largely just for getting heart pieces etc. at that point. Then you get the Master Sword and almost every part of the overworld opens up to be explored in any order you'd like. I'd like to see this kind of structure return in a future game for sure!
@@zapzapfishes5878it’s a lot like Link to The Past in that regard (as well as all the other ways lol.) One of the greatest strengths of Zelda’s best-selling games is the non-linear linearity, a lot like Metroid. You _can_ head just about anywhere and explore most of the world… but you’ll keep hitting walls you can’t yet cross since you don’t have the tools. But when you get those tools, the magic happens, because you remember “wait! That thing! That’s the Thing I can use this Thing on! AHA!”
3DS remake probably still has a lot to do it with. But there's also a difference between 'Water Temple bad' not being taken seriously and 'Water Temple is the best' being its replacement.
@@LittleBeanGreen Definitely, the "Water Temple Best" attitude is a reactionary response to the unfair assessment that the Water Temple sucks. Thanks for the video.
I remember saying my favorite dungeon in OoT was this one and my friends were like "What??? That's the worst one!" And I didn't really have the words to explain it so I just kinda went with the "well I've replayed the game enough to know where everything is" answer This video more or less puts my thoughts out there!
I never thought of the cutscene for that one passage as "subtle" since my exposure to gaming youtube has been colored by impatience-fueled ranting about cutscenes and hand holding to the point of complaining about the 0.4 seconds it takes for a door to open.
'Subtle' to those who aren't good at paying attention perhaps. I hadn't played this temple in years, to the point I forgot that cutscene and that key placement were even a thing and even then it was obvious to me.
Great video, I used to hate this temple as a kid but once I replayed it when I was adult, it was way less hard than I thought and is actually my favorite temple. The music makes me feel so good and I love all the distorted underwater noises
Being rewarded for "paying attention" is a great way to describe what makes the Water Temple so great. Unfortunately so many people complained about it that it led to Nintendo designing dungeons where players don't need to "pay attention". Ever since Wind Waker, we started getting what I call "roller coaster" dungeons. Or in other words.... dungeons where you don't need to pay attention
@@LittleBeanGreen Imo TP dungeons are great, but mostly for their atmosphere. The only dungeon that makes you "pay attention" is Lakebed Temple. I will admit I love other temples like Temple of Time, Snowpeak Ruins, etc. but not for the reasons I love the Water Temple. None of them scratch that itch. A lot of people praise the Sandship in SS, but I honestly think it is a bit overrated (as a puzzle box dungeon at least). There is only one part where you have to "pay attention" (lower the boat on the side) but the rest of it you don't have to cause Fi points it out to you (idk if that changed in the Switch version though). Ancient Cistern is good, but again it doesn't scratch the same itch the Water Temple does. This is all just my opinion, but I mainly just wish there were more temples like the Water Temple. I don't want every temple to be like it, but I feel what we ended up getting was temples like the Spirit Temple. Good theme, branches in and out of a main hub room, but doesn't really force the player to think in a critical way. If they ever do bring back dungeons I'd like them to bring back a variety of dungeon types. As of now I think Oot has the best balance out of any Zelda game.
@@adamkahmann2937 That's why I think the Shadow Temple is so linear - it's the perfect palette cleanse after the Water Temple. I think a mix is definitely the right move.
@@GatorOne-in7hk It depends on what dungeons we're talking about. There are some tricky moments in the Ww Wind Temple sure, but nothing like in Oot Water Temple where you have to remember a cracked wall in a distant room, change the water level, and then travel a decent distance to even access that room. Or like in Mm when knocking down specific pillars in Snow Head or paying attention to which way the water flows in Great Bay. Don't get me wrong though, I love the Wind Waker and I like the atmosphere of its dungeons. None of them really scratched that "puzzle box" feel I'm talking about though
I just finished a replay of OOT after not playing it for many years (even though I have MM basically memorized). Rediscovering the Water Temple was my favourite part of the playthrough. The only issue I had was the iron boots, like mentioned in the video, and the choice to only allow the hookshot underwater was kind of bizarre (but not really a problem)
In my latest playthrough I did just a few days ago, I found that back-walking to the other side of the illusion room instead of facing forward doesn't trigger Dark Link to appear - not until you turn towards the path forward and look back again. Also if you have created the Scarecrow's Song when going into the Water Temple, you can create a shortcut back up to the high-water song marker that lets you skip a lot of back-tracking (though you have to pay attention to where Navi flies to to notice it, and you actually have to get up there the normal way at least once to play the song at the location).
Back walking and - I think you HAVE to cross the island. In the clip I showed, I walked around the island and didn't lose my shadow. Pretty sure Dark Link doesn't show up that way either.
@@LittleBeanGreen I back-walked over the island and lost my shadow, but no dark link :) they seem to be separate functions or have slightly separate predicates, at the least.
I would pause the game a lot, so switching gear to me gives you a breather to look at the map, and conveniently making extra sure I save the game I adored the quiet, slow and methodical feel of it. The water puzzle was intimidating, but the atmosphere begs you to keep exploring and looking carefully. And the illusion room is basically the most memorable place of the whole game. I'd say the Forest Temple also feels a like a temple, especially with the gardens, just one that's been long run down. Spirit Temple too. The part I got stuck though was... the boss door. Look, every other time the game is kinda clear on what you can climb and not, the dungeon item is a mobility tool to skip places (that I honestly thought would be ironically a boots upgrade), and in contrast you just kinda never encounter this kind of just... physics puzzle that you don't need anything special to do.
Equipping and unequipping the iron-boots was the best part. I like having a lot of equipment and using it all. I don't like the idea of mapping it to the C-Buttons because that takes up an item slot, and turning the Iron Boots into an item means that the Hover Boots has to be an item as well, and I'm the kind of person that never takes off my hovers. My "one key" was also in the room below the room after fighting Dark Paul.
I had the Player’s Guide for OoT and had read it probably 30 times before I finished the Deku Tree (arachnophobia!). The Water Temple still had _that_ key. It was the one you highlighted as _that_ key in this latest playthrough. It’s so hidden and the Player’s Guide gave no indication of what water level is necessary for reaching it. I also usually couldn’t play for more than an hour at a time, and keeping track of which routes I had already tried for reaching every key was near impossible. I think I cleared the entire dungeon about four or five times before I finally found it, and cleared the starting 3-ish paths another ten times each as well.
Water Temple is vastly underrated. The changing of the water levels was executed perfectly and the fact that they put the three places to change the water levels in three different random areas was absolutely brilliant. You can’t just go from one song area to the next because the entire dungeon changes with each water level so you have to think about the dungeon as a whole and remember how to navigate it. It makes the entire dungeon feel so interconnected and meaningful and there’s no satisfying feeling that hits better when you actually figure it out. Using and understanding the map and having patience is absolutely key to the whole thing. Dark Link is the best mini boss in the game and the music and atmosphere is absolutely eerie and mysterious. The Zora explains that it was a place of worship. I absolutely love the Water Temple for what it has to offer in terms of structure, design, and puzzles.
I played through OoT first time this year on Ship of Harkinian, and not being annoyed at swapping boots(since you can equip them to item slots in SoH) let me really enjoy this dungeon, and it's probably my favourite dungeon from OoT.
@@LittleBeanGreen I *really* want to say Spirit how I remembered it but then I get sad at how much incredible potential it had and how little it used by keeping most sections separate instead of interconnected in its fancy main room like the Water temple is.
@@harukaze7388 If the Spirit Temple incorporated the time travel mechanic better, I'd say it's up there. As it stands, it's a dungeon you do as a child and then as an adult, not a integration of both. I liked the narrative aspects of it better though.
@@LittleBeanGreen Pretty much. I remembered it when you mentioned the main central room in the Water Temple, and how it too has a big fancy central room... Except then I remembered none of the paths end up interacting at all. Even when I first played I was super disappointed you didn't encounter all the huge blocks as a child instead of it being just literally a door.
@@LittleBeanGreen I think in terms, of fun, gameplay, aesthetic, and enemy encounters the Shadow and Forest temples both have it beat. I would even put the fire temple over it IMO.
As far as the Ocarina of Time temples go, the Water Temple is a definite top 3 pick for me (the others being Forest Temple and Spirit Temple). I don't have a lot I can say about it that wasn't already discussed in the video; I had a "that key" moment in everyone's favorite spot under the platform when I first played through it, sure, but I guess my feelings for the Water Temple are over-all pretty tame, which is pretty good given what it's supposed to be. The Forest Temple I mainly enjoy for the atmosphere and the amazingly ambient song that plays for it; the entire location is just something I'd love to have more of to explore. The Spirit Temple, I suppose my only real grievance with it is that it always feels "too short" for me, but that's partly my fault for getting Silver Gauntlets before starting Shadow Temple and then coming back to do the adult portion after. Again, great song, real enjoy the feel of the place as a whole - especially with how grand and almost "final" it all feels. The Water Temple, now that I know it to a point and have spatial awareness enough that it only mildly annoys me for a moment at the worst of times, is certainly intriguing to me, in a way. It's the closing of the middle-act of the game (at least when playing the dungeons in order) and I really do like how even on a world-building level, it tries to challenge Link in ways he has not been challenged by anywhere else up to that point, and having to fight Dark Link - for Link to have to face his own manifest darkness - before plunging into the Shadow Temple, I think is quite neat.
I hear that forest temple/spirit temple combo a lot. I get their appeal (I also really like the ambience and music of the forest temple). But I think the design of the water temple is second to none, especially in OoT.
I played the water temple a while ago for the first time in a decade. No guides, just pen and paper to map it out as I go (which the manual recommends). It was awesome, the only two things I missed was the key at the bottom of the center column, and the warp after you beat Dark link (because I saved and quit after beating him and didn't recheck that room for a while). It's a really well designed dungeon and was very rewarding to solve. I think people generally dislike it because they run around aimlessly hoping that the answer will just happen. Also the iron boot switching is a bit annoying but it's not that bad I agree it is the best dungeon in the game
I didn't miss a key in the water temple 25 years ago. I did however miss the "outside" key in the Forest Temple, a failure which I'm still ashamed of today. Speaking of, how many years before Aonuma apologizes for the menus in ToTK?
I played this game only after playing Majora's Mask, which many people promised me that Ocarina of Time had more and better dungeons. But for me, the Water Temple felt like the first dungeon in Ocarina of Time truly on par with the dungeons in Majora's Mask. I don't remember which key I missed in my first playthrough, but it wasn't the one in the central pillar. I have missed that one on multiple subsequent playthroughs though. As an aside, I think the Spirit Temple in Master Quest gets kind of close to the Water Temple in how you have to think about the whole space. Bizarrely, the Water Temple in Master Quest is much more straightforward.
When i was a kid, i was always so nervous i would get lost in the water temple and get stuck, so I'd follow a guide religiously, and i thought the temple was really hard. When i replayed it as an adult, i did so with no guide at all (on principle of course lol). I actually found that way easier because, instead of constantly being distracted by the guide, i was totally in the temple, and i felt like i really learned my way around. Not nearly as hard as i remember.
Nintendo needs to bring back dungeons. I’m not talking about 2.5D Zelda games. Which they brought it back in echoes of wisdom. Thank the Lord God they did cuz my nostalgia for dungeons have peaked. I want complex dungeons far worse than the water temple or any temple that was difficult in 3D Zelda games. Make them huge which was rumored to be in Botw/Totk but never got. P.S. I want the next Zelda game to be Darker than Dark…Darker than Majoras Mask and Twilight Princess. If they have to make the game somewhat a mix of both nonlinear and linear…totally fine with it. I want them to focus on sword skills and upgrades and they still can implement the breaking of weapons. Also bring back underwater swimming and fishing.
Hell yeah - I'm working on a video series for a concept next Zelda game (it's on my channel somewhere). From what you've said I think you'll like what I've come up with for the story.
It's not badly designed but it is executed in a subpar manner. With some tweaks it could be really fun but the way it is in the OG can be more of a chore than anything which instantly overshadows all the actually well designed elements. Still even with its faults it's not even close to the worst water themed dungeon, let alone dungeon in general.
Never got the hate it’s the best dungeon since you need to think about the whole dungeon not singular areas in it, also doesn’t hurt that the zora tunic is the best looking
It’s the worst looking tunic of the three!! The green look is a timeless classic, and the red one makes you look powerful and strong!! You look like some lame-o in the blue one!!
@@jendorei I mean I would agree that the green and red are the best ones but blue has a completely different vibe kinda like the zora. It just looks very chill and has an aura of tranquility
I loved watching the Game Maker’s Toolkit on this temple. It was his favourite temple in OOT, and he made a video assuming his response was the standard one, until he saw the comments.
I don't disagree that the water temple is good but I don't think its the best of all time by any stretch. It is a hole lot better when playing co-op though. I like it. Like you said very good atmosphere and style!
@@LittleBeanGreen I like the "Forest temple" I love the vibes there and the tricky double sided puzzle it spun me for a loop on the first play!. Though the shading and shadows could have been better I think. The "Water temple" is now also on my list because of the multiplayer expirence I once had with a friend, it made that dongen a much greater one at least for multiplayer. Only my opinion. There all awesome but I choose the "Forest temple"
Going in and out of the menus to change boots is the main thing that made people hate this temple. A first time player already has to manage the confusing layout, so every act of opening and closing the menu breaks your concentration.
I'm genuinely curious if this is related to it being a lot of people's first Zelda. aLttP had the confusing Ice Palace which, ironically also asks you to think of the dungeon very vertically and about how it changes where you can go, and in that game you had to menu for every item.
I’m an admitted sucker for that key in the middle tower. I’ve forgotten it on more than one play-through. The last time I finally got it the first time and was proud of myself. Switching to the boots is annoying, but that’s my general complaint about the series as a whole. It wasn’t until the switch games that I ever found it easy to switch out items.
Personally I loved the Water Temple 💧 But the complaints are valid. I didn’t find it as confusing as it was more scattered than anything. Most certainly isn’t the most linear. I too though, was amongst the many that didn’t find THAT key 🔑
I played Ocarina of Time for the very first time two months ago and I dreaded going to the Water Temple because I always heard people it was "the worst dungeon in the series" When I finished it, it quickly became my favorite dungeon in the game alongside the Spirit Temple and I will defend it until I die (also was I the only person in the world that never had to backtrack in the entire dungeon to get one key I missed?) And for the Iron Boots swapping, I played Link's Awakening's gameboy version so I was more than used to going back and forth in the menu to change something
@@LittleBeanGreen I'm not saying that they are dumb, but I think the water temple requires a level of spatial awarenes and abstract thinking that a child may have not developed yet. And if you add the fact that this is the first zelda in 3d, and the first temple with a gimmick like that... I can understand the frustration when you miss that key
@@gabrielox5110 Perhaps - but I still think there is ample opportunity to be able to figure it out. Especially if you're paying attention to that cutscene.
I found it hard, but I liked it a lot; certainly a lot easier than the Shadow Temple, which I got stuck on for years. The Iron Boots problem is a tad bit annoying, but it's a non issue overall.
I've always had to scratch my head at the complaints about this dungeon. The atmosphere, the storytelling (dark Link esp) and the setting are so compelling. I agree with you that the aesthetics of the original are far and away the best, and have aged spectacularly- I will never tire of the water reflections lighting the dungeon. I have no problem loosely using walkthroughs on harder dungeons in the series, and doing so makes this dungeon very enjoyable if I get really stuck. I have memories of my (much better at gaming) older brother getting stuck for weeks in this dungeon because of that one key, and I can see why that would tarnish the experience for some, but I've experienced that same thing in other dungeons, especially in the older 2D games, so I don't think it's unique to this dungeon.
even though it’s got so many vertical levels, I think the Water Temple might be the 3D dungeon closest in structure and content to classic 2D _Zelda_ dungeons… each level has a relatively simple layout, the challenges in each room are generally simply, I think may have the most rooms of any 3D dungeon, it’s got many instances of “I need to remember this room and come back later,” and the vertical, third-dimension elements rarely require the player to actually traverse vertically in any complex ways. and the atmosphere is great, the theme is great, the mini-boss is fantastic, however frustrating… though the regular enemies could’ve been cooler, and the dungeon boss is probably the worst in the game 😑
I’m convinced that the majority of Water Temple haters played the game only once, or a few times, when they were children, and never played the game again, and continue to base their opinions based on their first time playing. The dungeon is far from perfect, but it’s not remotely close to as bad as people think it is. Of course, my favorite dungeon will always be the Fire Temple. I will mildly defend the Water Temple, but it’s not the best dungeon in the game.
Here's my 2 cents , it wasn't that much harder than any other dungeon in the game , confusing ,yes , tedious with changing the boots , also yes, and there's a huge bias against water levels. Also pretty much everyone who complains about it was in grade school when they played it , and OOT was rated E , but very much made for the tail end of E rating players. I beat this when I was like 18 on the 3ds version, and I recently ay 26 decided to play the N64 version on the switch , and it was nowhere near as bad as people said it was
i when 10 beat oot an water temple had me alittle annoyed but atleast the key i was missing was close to the the main room an it wasn't the platform moving up i missed it was the big chest down one of the halls an needed a hookshoot like every time the camra showed apart of the dungion i was like why you angling down at them gam why gam. lmao
Actually thinking deeply about it, I wonder what like, generation or history people who were bothered by the pausing had-- coming off aLttP you do pause in that game to pick any item, it's a standard course of Zelda. And many other older games you similarly pause to select items. And also coming from RPGs where I like to change gear a lot I liked the idea of selectable boots and equipment. I was actually hoping the dungeon item was the hover boots! (And that they'd let you stand on water indefinitely, for an extra layer to the water puzzles.)
To me it's becoming clearer that Zelda has always had this sort of problem ESPECIALLY in the topdown games (although the Link's Awakening remake has done a good job updating it).
@@LittleBeanGreen It's basically an older generations design, coming off NES games where pausing to select items was just kind of expected, especially in action-rpgs and action-adventure. Even the original Link's Awakening tried to mitigate it a little by letting you choose two items instead of one... at the expense of all your functionality.
i argue the water temple is the best 3d dungeon for its complexity and introducing the modern puzzle box dungeon design (i rank it as number 2 right below JJB from OoA) it is not without flaws however such as how an arrow check is placed randomly at the end of the serpent room which punishes players who enter the dungeon without the bow and that small key should have been the longshot instead. also you can end up being one small key short prior to dark link if you don't have din's fire. one solution would be to move one of the locked doors to the blade trap room. this also would rebalance having 3 before the longshot and 3 afterwards. farore's wind can also lead to some minor progression paradoxes however this is more of bad item design. MQ's water temple has the problem where it gates off 2 branches before reaching the boss key room and of them trolls you by needing the fire arrows to get the spider. the tedium of the water temple was more to do with bad item mapping with the iron boots. also oot3d'a overcorrection of the cutscene by showing the hidden path could have been optional by instead displaying it in the sheikah stone. the infamous small key was brilliant in how it was handled becuase i had that aha moment as i overlooked the cutscene. also what is cool is that you can enter the central room without unlocking the door and instead use din's fire or the bow to light the torch frm the other side where warping back to the entrance and jumping down allows you to bybass it. the only minor consequence is that unlocking the door from the opposite side has no lock but still unlocks the door because it is not a sliding door. and this is interesting because oot does not crash unlike in tp where unlocking a door from the opposite side can crash the game.
if i had to rank the water dungeons it goes as this: JJB>the water temple>GBT>lakebed temple>water shrine (ALBW)>water shrine z3>angler's tunnel. totk water templeis more in name only as it is more skycentric with some water motifs. also dark link i found easider in oot3d because of better hit detection.
I like Jabu Jabu's Belly too - it was just more different to get your bearings about how the water level was changing in a 2D environment (you had to think about a 3D volume in 2D space) and, if I remember correctly, not knowing how the water level was changing.
@@LittleBeanGreen one thing that did help in JJB though was lining up the map coordinates but the 2D space did have its limits however compared to the water temple it made more use of the water changing effect. also had a better boss (although plasmarine is mediocre).
4:41 Ok, I laughed AF at this. It's true, 3D Remake oversignals you the hints. OG its subtle, but fair, it DEMANDS you to pay attention, to be aware.People here took the L in the Remake for me. I always thought Water Temple should've been one of the last dungeons to beat as it deserves its dificulty
I couldn't believe that when I saw it. I think it's a pretty good spot for it. Shadow Temple is a nice reprieve afterwards with its linearity and then there's the cool gimmick of the Spirit Temple, too!
The water temple isnt that bad, the only thing that annoyed ne was having to stop the game play just to open the menu multiple times within short bursts. I disagree about it being the best dungeon. There are plenty of dungeons that i can say are better.
Finished the video. I wouldnt go as far to say it is one or THE BEST dungeons of the entire series, but i do agree with some points. To me, the worst part of this temple (when i played for the first time as a kid) was getting lost. Since getting lost is relatively easy for a kid in this temple, backtracking gets frustrating quickly with the amount of stops you have to make to lower and raise the water level, pausing several times to equip and unequip the boots and sloooooowly sinking to the floor. Maybe it is nostalgia but i really apreciate the challenge today, and it is probably the most memorable temple of oot for me, along with forest and fire temples
If my experience with the OoT Forest Temple (still unbeaten) is anything to go by, all of OoT’s dungeon’s are confusing and severally headache inducing. I haven’t even beaten it because I have no idea what to do, where to go, or my actual objective. I dread the day I reach the other temples, if it ever arrives.
There are two reasons why people hate the Water Temple:
1-Internet opinions aka herd mentality
2-Skill issues
a clear and succinct summary.
I just completed the Water Temple for the first time yesterday. It was pretty fun. The hardest and most confusing part for me was actually the final boss. I thought I wasn’t doing any damage just by hitting the ball and that the game wanted me to throw the ball at the spikes on the wall. It’s true that the boots are a bit annoying to put on and take off, and that they should’ve been a C-button item, but that’s about my only complaint next to the ball not turning red when damaged.
The dungeon layout isn’t hard to figure out if you just use the in-game map. Same as _the key_ - you just look at the map to find the chest you haven’t collected. It was the key under the tower for me. I missed the hint in the cutscene initially, but I realized there was a room under the tower that I haven’t been to, and I figured out how to get there once I watched the cutscene play out again.
Also, if you close the menu with the start button instead of B, it won’t ask you to save every time.
Hm I never even thought about the boss like that. I could see how that would be confusing - why else would all the spikes be there...glad you were able to figure it out!
Yeah I know about the start instead of B thing but the B button is just so much closer! 🙃
" that they should’ve been a C-button item"
In the 3DS remastered version, they actually do just that.
Nah man i cant agree. Ofcourse as an adult, none of this is particularily difficult BUT even for me, someone with exceptional 3D visualization and spatial awareness, as a kid this was a slog.
@@CoNteMpTone You probably didn’t know how to use the map as a kid.
@@CoNteMpTone I found all the adult dungeons hard as a kid. I got stuck on Amy’s block puzzle in the Forest Temple, barely made any progress in the Water Temple, and went nowhere in the Shadow Temple because I couldn’t get the Lens of Truth as a consequence of not beating the Forest Temple. I never even reached the Spirit Temple at all. The only one I beat back then was the Fire Temple, a contributing factor to why it’s my favorite dungeon in the game.
As someone who played the water temple for the first time in 9th grade, I think a lot of the issues were as a result of kids in elementary school not wanting to put the effort into learning the temple or just autopiloting the first part of the game/not recalling tricks from the first part of the game. Things like reshooting the eye switch in the forest temple to untwist the corridor or breaking the cobweb in Deku Tree are preludes to it. If we all played it at an age when we had the patience to untangle it, I think it would be less hated.
But....that's no different than the rest of the game...
Exactly, the water temple ideas aren’t really new. They’re like 30% more complex at the most. Yet people act like the Water Temple is this horrible confusing and misleading trial when if they were logically expanding their ideas from previous dungeons, they would eventually figure it out.
I'm on a playthrough of OOT where I'm doing the temples out of order. It was suprising to find out how the game does basically nothing to prevent you from going to the fire temple or ice cavern+water temple first, other than telling you the forest temple is the place to go. So I did the water temple first and had a terrific time up until I got to the place where I needed a key and the two last keys were both locked behind eye switches that you need the bow for. Dissapointingly, I had to give up and left to clear the fire temple instead. It's really cool that the game lets you do so many things out of the intended order, so I don't get what these two random eye switches were for.
OoT has a reputation for being linear but it's actually surprisingly LESS linear than most give it credit for (although it's still pretty linear ha).
@@LittleBeanGreen Yeah, I think it has a very good ballance between linearity and nonlinearity. From the moment you clear the Deku Tree, you have access to so many parts of the map; Hyrule Field, Lost Woods/Forest Meadow, Castle Town, Lon Lon Ranch, Lake Hylia, Kakariko, Death Mountain and Gerudo Valley entrance, even if it's largely just for getting heart pieces etc. at that point. Then you get the Master Sword and almost every part of the overworld opens up to be explored in any order you'd like. I'd like to see this kind of structure return in a future game for sure!
@@zapzapfishes5878it’s a lot like Link to The Past in that regard (as well as all the other ways lol.) One of the greatest strengths of Zelda’s best-selling games is the non-linear linearity, a lot like Metroid. You _can_ head just about anywhere and explore most of the world… but you’ll keep hitting walls you can’t yet cross since you don’t have the tools. But when you get those tools, the magic happens, because you remember “wait! That thing! That’s the Thing I can use this Thing on! AHA!”
"Water Temple bad." hasn't been taken seriously on the past two decades but for some reason, the meme has lived on.
3DS remake probably still has a lot to do it with. But there's also a difference between 'Water Temple bad' not being taken seriously and 'Water Temple is the best' being its replacement.
@@LittleBeanGreen Definitely, the "Water Temple Best" attitude is a reactionary response to the unfair assessment that the Water Temple sucks. Thanks for the video.
@@leviwarren6222 Thanks for watching!
I remember saying my favorite dungeon in OoT was this one and my friends were like
"What??? That's the worst one!" And I didn't really have the words to explain it so I just kinda went with the "well I've replayed the game enough to know where everything is" answer
This video more or less puts my thoughts out there!
Tell em!
I never thought of the cutscene for that one passage as "subtle" since my exposure to gaming youtube has been colored by impatience-fueled ranting about cutscenes and hand holding to the point of complaining about the 0.4 seconds it takes for a door to open.
'Subtle' to those who aren't good at paying attention perhaps. I hadn't played this temple in years, to the point I forgot that cutscene and that key placement were even a thing and even then it was obvious to me.
Great video, I used to hate this temple as a kid but once I replayed it when I was adult, it was way less hard than I thought and is actually my favorite temple. The music makes me feel so good and I love all the distorted underwater noises
Distorted underwater noises are my favorite video game gimmick ha
I'm glad I'm not the only one who missed the key in the longshot room. That was literally the only problem I had with the temple when I was younger.
Birds of a water temple feather.
Being rewarded for "paying attention" is a great way to describe what makes the Water Temple so great. Unfortunately so many people complained about it that it led to Nintendo designing dungeons where players don't need to "pay attention".
Ever since Wind Waker, we started getting what I call "roller coaster" dungeons. Or in other words.... dungeons where you don't need to pay attention
It's been awhile since I've played either TP or SS but I seem to recall those being pretty good, right?
@@LittleBeanGreen Imo TP dungeons are great, but mostly for their atmosphere. The only dungeon that makes you "pay attention" is Lakebed Temple. I will admit I love other temples like Temple of Time, Snowpeak Ruins, etc. but not for the reasons I love the Water Temple. None of them scratch that itch.
A lot of people praise the Sandship in SS, but I honestly think it is a bit overrated (as a puzzle box dungeon at least). There is only one part where you have to "pay attention" (lower the boat on the side) but the rest of it you don't have to cause Fi points it out to you (idk if that changed in the Switch version though). Ancient Cistern is good, but again it doesn't scratch the same itch the Water Temple does.
This is all just my opinion, but I mainly just wish there were more temples like the Water Temple. I don't want every temple to be like it, but I feel what we ended up getting was temples like the Spirit Temple. Good theme, branches in and out of a main hub room, but doesn't really force the player to think in a critical way. If they ever do bring back dungeons I'd like them to bring back a variety of dungeon types. As of now I think Oot has the best balance out of any Zelda game.
@@adamkahmann2937 That's why I think the Shadow Temple is so linear - it's the perfect palette cleanse after the Water Temple. I think a mix is definitely the right move.
The heck are you talking about?? All of Wind Waker’s dungeons require you to pay attention!
@@GatorOne-in7hk It depends on what dungeons we're talking about. There are some tricky moments in the Ww Wind Temple sure, but nothing like in Oot Water Temple where you have to remember a cracked wall in a distant room, change the water level, and then travel a decent distance to even access that room. Or like in Mm when knocking down specific pillars in Snow Head or paying attention to which way the water flows in Great Bay.
Don't get me wrong though, I love the Wind Waker and I like the atmosphere of its dungeons. None of them really scratched that "puzzle box" feel I'm talking about though
Love this dungeon, it’s up there with Ice Palace and Eagle’s Tower in the satisfaction stakes
Just played through Link's Awakening Remake for the first time recently - love Eagle's Tower.
I just finished a replay of OOT after not playing it for many years (even though I have MM basically memorized). Rediscovering the Water Temple was my favourite part of the playthrough. The only issue I had was the iron boots, like mentioned in the video, and the choice to only allow the hookshot underwater was kind of bizarre (but not really a problem)
That's the ONLY weapon you can use (if I recall correctly) - otherwise it would be a nightmare ha
In my latest playthrough I did just a few days ago, I found that back-walking to the other side of the illusion room instead of facing forward doesn't trigger Dark Link to appear - not until you turn towards the path forward and look back again.
Also if you have created the Scarecrow's Song when going into the Water Temple, you can create a shortcut back up to the high-water song marker that lets you skip a lot of back-tracking (though you have to pay attention to where Navi flies to to notice it, and you actually have to get up there the normal way at least once to play the song at the location).
Back walking and - I think you HAVE to cross the island. In the clip I showed, I walked around the island and didn't lose my shadow. Pretty sure Dark Link doesn't show up that way either.
@@LittleBeanGreen I back-walked over the island and lost my shadow, but no dark link :)
they seem to be separate functions or have slightly separate predicates, at the least.
I would pause the game a lot, so switching gear to me gives you a breather to look at the map, and conveniently making extra sure I save the game
I adored the quiet, slow and methodical feel of it. The water puzzle was intimidating, but the atmosphere begs you to keep exploring and looking carefully. And the illusion room is basically the most memorable place of the whole game.
I'd say the Forest Temple also feels a like a temple, especially with the gardens, just one that's been long run down. Spirit Temple too.
The part I got stuck though was... the boss door. Look, every other time the game is kinda clear on what you can climb and not, the dungeon item is a mobility tool to skip places (that I honestly thought would be ironically a boots upgrade), and in contrast you just kinda never encounter this kind of just... physics puzzle that you don't need anything special to do.
I think both the Forest and Spirit Temple are fortresses? (at least the Spirit Temple is at the time Link gets there).
Equipping and unequipping the iron-boots was the best part. I like having a lot of equipment and using it all. I don't like the idea of mapping it to the C-Buttons because that takes up an item slot, and turning the Iron Boots into an item means that the Hover Boots has to be an item as well, and I'm the kind of person that never takes off my hovers.
My "one key" was also in the room below the room after fighting Dark Paul.
YOU NEVER TAKE OFF THE HOVER BOOTS?! All your turns must be so wide....
@@LittleBeanGreen They make me run faster
Agreed! This has always been my favorite dungeon in the entire Zelda series.
you must be sophisticated as well 😎
I had the Player’s Guide for OoT and had read it probably 30 times before I finished the Deku Tree (arachnophobia!).
The Water Temple still had _that_ key. It was the one you highlighted as _that_ key in this latest playthrough. It’s so hidden and the Player’s Guide gave no indication of what water level is necessary for reaching it.
I also usually couldn’t play for more than an hour at a time, and keeping track of which routes I had already tried for reaching every key was near impossible. I think I cleared the entire dungeon about four or five times before I finally found it, and cleared the starting 3-ish paths another ten times each as well.
Yeah starting and stopping throughout the dungeon would definitely throw a giant wrench in your ability to navigate it.
Water Temple is vastly underrated.
The changing of the water levels was executed perfectly and the fact that they put the three places to change the water levels in three different random areas was absolutely brilliant. You can’t just go from one song area to the next because the entire dungeon changes with each water level so you have to think about the dungeon as a whole and remember how to navigate it. It makes the entire dungeon feel so interconnected and meaningful and there’s no satisfying feeling that hits better when you actually figure it out. Using and understanding the map and having patience is absolutely key to the whole thing. Dark Link is the best mini boss in the game and the music and atmosphere is absolutely eerie and mysterious. The Zora explains that it was a place of worship.
I absolutely love the Water Temple for what it has to offer in terms of structure, design, and puzzles.
Well said!
I played through OoT first time this year on Ship of Harkinian, and not being annoyed at swapping boots(since you can equip them to item slots in SoH) let me really enjoy this dungeon, and it's probably my favourite dungeon from OoT.
Glad to know the quality of life upgrades to the boots allowed you to enjoy this dungeon to its fullest
Always good to see some Water Temple love. Never understood the hate (or why people thought it was so difficult).
it's great!
Saying it’s too hated on is one thing, calling it the best dungeon in the game or the best in Zelda is a wildly hot take
Best in Zelda maybe. Best in the game, what compares?
@@LittleBeanGreen I *really* want to say Spirit how I remembered it but then I get sad at how much incredible potential it had and how little it used by keeping most sections separate instead of interconnected in its fancy main room like the Water temple is.
@@harukaze7388 If the Spirit Temple incorporated the time travel mechanic better, I'd say it's up there. As it stands, it's a dungeon you do as a child and then as an adult, not a integration of both. I liked the narrative aspects of it better though.
@@LittleBeanGreen Pretty much. I remembered it when you mentioned the main central room in the Water Temple, and how it too has a big fancy central room... Except then I remembered none of the paths end up interacting at all. Even when I first played I was super disappointed you didn't encounter all the huge blocks as a child instead of it being just literally a door.
@@LittleBeanGreen I think in terms, of fun, gameplay, aesthetic, and enemy encounters the Shadow and Forest temples both have it beat. I would even put the fire temple over it IMO.
As far as the Ocarina of Time temples go, the Water Temple is a definite top 3 pick for me (the others being Forest Temple and Spirit Temple).
I don't have a lot I can say about it that wasn't already discussed in the video; I had a "that key" moment in everyone's favorite spot under the platform when I first played through it, sure, but I guess my feelings for the Water Temple are over-all pretty tame, which is pretty good given what it's supposed to be.
The Forest Temple I mainly enjoy for the atmosphere and the amazingly ambient song that plays for it; the entire location is just something I'd love to have more of to explore.
The Spirit Temple, I suppose my only real grievance with it is that it always feels "too short" for me, but that's partly my fault for getting Silver Gauntlets before starting Shadow Temple and then coming back to do the adult portion after. Again, great song, real enjoy the feel of the place as a whole - especially with how grand and almost "final" it all feels.
The Water Temple, now that I know it to a point and have spatial awareness enough that it only mildly annoys me for a moment at the worst of times, is certainly intriguing to me, in a way. It's the closing of the middle-act of the game (at least when playing the dungeons in order) and I really do like how even on a world-building level, it tries to challenge Link in ways he has not been challenged by anywhere else up to that point, and having to fight Dark Link - for Link to have to face his own manifest darkness - before plunging into the Shadow Temple, I think is quite neat.
I hear that forest temple/spirit temple combo a lot. I get their appeal (I also really like the ambience and music of the forest temple). But I think the design of the water temple is second to none, especially in OoT.
I played the water temple a while ago for the first time in a decade. No guides, just pen and paper to map it out as I go (which the manual recommends). It was awesome, the only two things I missed was the key at the bottom of the center column, and the warp after you beat Dark link (because I saved and quit after beating him and didn't recheck that room for a while).
It's a really well designed dungeon and was very rewarding to solve.
I think people generally dislike it because they run around aimlessly hoping that the answer will just happen.
Also the iron boot switching is a bit annoying but it's not that bad
I agree it is the best dungeon in the game
Wow a pen and paper - dedication!
I didn't miss a key in the water temple 25 years ago. I did however miss the "outside" key in the Forest Temple, a failure which I'm still ashamed of today. Speaking of, how many years before Aonuma apologizes for the menus in ToTK?
Zelda's UI problems are a separate can of worms 🤣
I don't know man, that Shadow Temple...
Too many silver rupees for my liking ;)
I played this game only after playing Majora's Mask, which many people promised me that Ocarina of Time had more and better dungeons. But for me, the Water Temple felt like the first dungeon in Ocarina of Time truly on par with the dungeons in Majora's Mask. I don't remember which key I missed in my first playthrough, but it wasn't the one in the central pillar. I have missed that one on multiple subsequent playthroughs though.
As an aside, I think the Spirit Temple in Master Quest gets kind of close to the Water Temple in how you have to think about the whole space. Bizarrely, the Water Temple in Master Quest is much more straightforward.
I'll have to dust off my GC and my special disk to play through Master Quest again.
Vespertine! Daggom, haven't heard that on since...well I guess ever.
Looked it up. Well used, It's a Cupuscular dungeon to be certain. (yes, I'm miss using that word, but it's the one that was brought to mind)
@@netic8erthe3rd11 One of my favorites!
In my 3 play throughs I've only missed a key the first time in the water temple.
a true dungeon diver!
Any time I hear someone say the Water Temple is the worst temple, I just hear them admitting that they are stupid.
well - maybe impatient.
When i was a kid, i was always so nervous i would get lost in the water temple and get stuck, so I'd follow a guide religiously, and i thought the temple was really hard. When i replayed it as an adult, i did so with no guide at all (on principle of course lol). I actually found that way easier because, instead of constantly being distracted by the guide, i was totally in the temple, and i felt like i really learned my way around. Not nearly as hard as i remember.
Like I said, if you're paying attention, there is actually a lot that differentiates each floor, corridor, and water control room. It's a lot of fun!
Nintendo needs to bring back dungeons. I’m not talking about 2.5D Zelda games. Which they brought it back in echoes of wisdom. Thank the Lord God they did cuz my nostalgia for dungeons have peaked. I want complex dungeons far worse than the water temple or any temple that was difficult in 3D Zelda games. Make them huge which was rumored to be in Botw/Totk but never got.
P.S. I want the next Zelda game to be Darker than Dark…Darker than Majoras Mask and Twilight Princess. If they have to make the game somewhat a mix of both nonlinear and linear…totally fine with it.
I want them to focus on sword skills and upgrades and they still can implement the breaking of weapons.
Also bring back underwater swimming and fishing.
Hell yeah - I'm working on a video series for a concept next Zelda game (it's on my channel somewhere). From what you've said I think you'll like what I've come up with for the story.
HELL YES
💁♂
It's not badly designed but it is executed in a subpar manner. With some tweaks it could be really fun but the way it is in the OG can be more of a chore than anything which instantly overshadows all the actually well designed elements. Still even with its faults it's not even close to the worst water themed dungeon, let alone dungeon in general.
By 'executed in a subpar manner' do you mean the boots specifically or are there parts of the dungeon you think could've been designed better?
@@LittleBeanGreen Mostly the things you already mentioned. Some QoL changes really could have "saved" this dungeon in the eyes of many.
Never got the hate it’s the best dungeon since you need to think about the whole dungeon not singular areas in it, also doesn’t hurt that the zora tunic is the best looking
It’s the worst looking tunic of the three!! The green look is a timeless classic, and the red one makes you look powerful and strong!! You look like some lame-o in the blue one!!
@@jendorei I mean I would agree that the green and red are the best ones but blue has a completely different vibe kinda like the zora. It just looks very chill and has an aura of tranquility
Blue is kind of ethereal and ~demure~
I loved watching the Game Maker’s Toolkit on this temple. It was his favourite temple in OOT, and he made a video assuming his response was the standard one, until he saw the comments.
Crazy - it is really just that good even with the Iron Boots issue.
I don't disagree that the water temple is good but I don't think its the best of all time by any stretch. It is a hole lot better when playing co-op though. I like it. Like you said very good atmosphere and style!
What do you think is the best?
@@LittleBeanGreen I like the "Forest temple" I love the vibes there and the tricky double sided puzzle it spun me for a loop on the first play!. Though the shading and shadows could have been better I think. The "Water temple" is now also on my list because of the multiplayer expirence I once had with a friend, it made that dongen a much greater one at least for multiplayer. Only my opinion. There all awesome but I choose the "Forest temple"
@@robbinscott160 How we're you playing multiplier Ocarina of Time?
Going in and out of the menus to change boots is the main thing that made people hate this temple.
A first time player already has to manage the confusing layout, so every act of opening and closing the menu breaks your concentration.
But you also have to pause to look at the map - which is a must. I don't think pausing is actually that bad.
I'm genuinely curious if this is related to it being a lot of people's first Zelda. aLttP had the confusing Ice Palace which, ironically also asks you to think of the dungeon very vertically and about how it changes where you can go, and in that game you had to menu for every item.
I’m an admitted sucker for that key in the middle tower. I’ve forgotten it on more than one play-through. The last time I finally got it the first time and was proud of myself.
Switching to the boots is annoying, but that’s my general complaint about the series as a whole. It wasn’t until the switch games that I ever found it easy to switch out items.
that's been my take too - switching items had always been a nuisance.
Personally I loved the Water Temple 💧
But the complaints are valid. I didn’t find it as confusing as it was more scattered than anything. Most certainly isn’t the most linear.
I too though, was amongst the many that didn’t find THAT key 🔑
That keyyyy! *shakes fists at heaven*
I played Ocarina of Time for the very first time two months ago and I dreaded going to the Water Temple because I always heard people it was "the worst dungeon in the series"
When I finished it, it quickly became my favorite dungeon in the game alongside the Spirit Temple and I will defend it until I die
(also was I the only person in the world that never had to backtrack in the entire dungeon to get one key I missed?)
And for the Iron Boots swapping, I played Link's Awakening's gameboy version so I was more than used to going back and forth in the menu to change something
Congrats on your clean run!
maybe the water temple is so infamous because the majority of the players were kids the first time they played OoT?
maybe - but kids ain't dumb.
@@LittleBeanGreen I'm not saying that they are dumb, but I think the water temple requires a level of spatial awarenes and abstract thinking that a child may have not developed yet.
And if you add the fact that this is the first zelda in 3d, and the first temple with a gimmick like that... I can understand the frustration when you miss that key
@@gabrielox5110 Perhaps - but I still think there is ample opportunity to be able to figure it out. Especially if you're paying attention to that cutscene.
I found it hard, but I liked it a lot; certainly a lot easier than the Shadow Temple, which I got stuck on for years. The Iron Boots problem is a tad bit annoying, but it's a non issue overall.
What had you stuck in the Shadow Temple? No Lens of Truth?
Lowkey, I just sucked at the game 💀
I beat it when I got older, and it was easier by then
I've always had to scratch my head at the complaints about this dungeon. The atmosphere, the storytelling (dark Link esp) and the setting are so compelling. I agree with you that the aesthetics of the original are far and away the best, and have aged spectacularly- I will never tire of the water reflections lighting the dungeon. I have no problem loosely using walkthroughs on harder dungeons in the series, and doing so makes this dungeon very enjoyable if I get really stuck. I have memories of my (much better at gaming) older brother getting stuck for weeks in this dungeon because of that one key, and I can see why that would tarnish the experience for some, but I've experienced that same thing in other dungeons, especially in the older 2D games, so I don't think it's unique to this dungeon.
I remember being young and struggling through the dungeons of Oracle of Seasons.
@@LittleBeanGreen literally just me playing it for the first time a few months ago (though I think it was Ages) 😅
@@LoveCrumb Ages I loved!
@@LittleBeanGreen same! But the struggle was also real in a couple of those dungeons lol
even though it’s got so many vertical levels, I think the Water Temple might be the 3D dungeon closest in structure and content to classic 2D _Zelda_ dungeons… each level has a relatively simple layout, the challenges in each room are generally simply, I think may have the most rooms of any 3D dungeon, it’s got many instances of “I need to remember this room and come back later,” and the vertical, third-dimension elements rarely require the player to actually traverse vertically in any complex ways.
and the atmosphere is great, the theme is great, the mini-boss is fantastic, however frustrating… though the regular enemies could’ve been cooler, and the dungeon boss is probably the worst in the game 😑
It's not even THAT many vertical levels - it's just the task of thinking of them as a whole.
Morpha sucks balls.
I loved it
same
I’m convinced that the majority of Water Temple haters played the game only once, or a few times, when they were children, and never played the game again, and continue to base their opinions based on their first time playing. The dungeon is far from perfect, but it’s not remotely close to as bad as people think it is.
Of course, my favorite dungeon will always be the Fire Temple. I will mildly defend the Water Temple, but it’s not the best dungeon in the game.
I do like that you have to save Gorons from the Fire Temple - but I still love the Water Temple more 😁
What’s funny is Lakebed and Great Bay are so much worse than OoT Water Temple.
all three are awesome!
Here's my 2 cents , it wasn't that much harder than any other dungeon in the game , confusing ,yes , tedious with changing the boots , also yes, and there's a huge bias against water levels. Also pretty much everyone who complains about it was in grade school when they played it , and OOT was rated E , but very much made for the tail end of E rating players.
I beat this when I was like 18 on the 3ds version, and I recently ay 26 decided to play the N64 version on the switch , and it was nowhere near as bad as people said it was
I don't think it was harder but I certainly think how it is designed is way more interesting than any other of OoT's dungeons.
i when 10 beat oot an water temple had me alittle annoyed but atleast the key i was missing was close to the the main room an it wasn't the platform moving up i missed it was the big chest down one of the halls an needed a hookshoot
like every time the camra showed apart of the dungion i was like why you angling down at them gam why gam. lmao
dat's why gam.
Actually thinking deeply about it, I wonder what like, generation or history people who were bothered by the pausing had-- coming off aLttP you do pause in that game to pick any item, it's a standard course of Zelda. And many other older games you similarly pause to select items.
And also coming from RPGs where I like to change gear a lot I liked the idea of selectable boots and equipment. I was actually hoping the dungeon item was the hover boots! (And that they'd let you stand on water indefinitely, for an extra layer to the water puzzles.)
To me it's becoming clearer that Zelda has always had this sort of problem ESPECIALLY in the topdown games (although the Link's Awakening remake has done a good job updating it).
@@LittleBeanGreen It's basically an older generations design, coming off NES games where pausing to select items was just kind of expected, especially in action-rpgs and action-adventure.
Even the original Link's Awakening tried to mitigate it a little by letting you choose two items instead of one... at the expense of all your functionality.
@@harukaze7388 But now the latest game has you pausing all the time for every interaction because there are SO many options.
The Water temple womps!
What it needed was a 3d map like in Metroid Prime, I'm right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. 😼
Nah! You gotta be able to infer the connections, not just have em all given to you!
@@LittleBeanGreen No way Hosay, Water temple Womps! 😊
i argue the water temple is the best 3d dungeon for its complexity and introducing the modern puzzle box dungeon design (i rank it as number 2 right below JJB from OoA) it is not without flaws however such as how an arrow check is placed randomly at the end of the serpent room which punishes players who enter the dungeon without the bow and that small key should have been the longshot instead. also you can end up being one small key short prior to dark link if you don't have din's fire. one solution would be to move one of the locked doors to the blade trap room. this also would rebalance having 3 before the longshot and 3 afterwards. farore's wind can also lead to some minor progression paradoxes however this is more of bad item design. MQ's water temple has the problem where it gates off 2 branches before reaching the boss key room and of them trolls you by needing the fire arrows to get the spider. the tedium of the water temple was more to do with bad item mapping with the iron boots. also oot3d'a overcorrection of the cutscene by showing the hidden path could have been optional by instead displaying it in the sheikah stone.
the infamous small key was brilliant in how it was handled becuase i had that aha moment as i overlooked the cutscene. also what is cool is that you can enter the central room without unlocking the door and instead use din's fire or the bow to light the torch frm the other side where warping back to the entrance and jumping down allows you to bybass it. the only minor consequence is that unlocking the door from the opposite side has no lock but still unlocks the door because it is not a sliding door. and this is interesting because oot does not crash unlike in tp where unlocking a door from the opposite side can crash the game.
if i had to rank the water dungeons it goes as this:
JJB>the water temple>GBT>lakebed temple>water shrine (ALBW)>water shrine z3>angler's tunnel. totk water templeis more in name only as it is more skycentric with some water motifs.
also dark link i found easider in oot3d because of better hit detection.
I like Jabu Jabu's Belly too - it was just more different to get your bearings about how the water level was changing in a 2D environment (you had to think about a 3D volume in 2D space) and, if I remember correctly, not knowing how the water level was changing.
@@LittleBeanGreen one thing that did help in JJB though was lining up the map coordinates but the 2D space did have its limits however compared to the water temple it made more use of the water changing effect. also had a better boss (although plasmarine is mediocre).
4:41 Ok, I laughed AF at this. It's true, 3D Remake oversignals you the hints. OG its subtle, but fair, it DEMANDS you to pay attention, to be aware.People here took the L in the Remake for me. I always thought Water Temple should've been one of the last dungeons to beat as it deserves its dificulty
I couldn't believe that when I saw it. I think it's a pretty good spot for it. Shadow Temple is a nice reprieve afterwards with its linearity and then there's the cool gimmick of the Spirit Temple, too!
Water Temple…
Not that hard…
Not that bad…
Pretty great.
The water temple isnt that bad, the only thing that annoyed ne was having to stop the game play just to open the menu multiple times within short bursts.
I disagree about it being the best dungeon. There are plenty of dungeons that i can say are better.
Which do you prefer?
Im in the 38 seconds mark and i have to say: What the fuck
?
Finished the video. I wouldnt go as far to say it is one or THE BEST dungeons of the entire series, but i do agree with some points. To me, the worst part of this temple (when i played for the first time as a kid) was getting lost. Since getting lost is relatively easy for a kid in this temple, backtracking gets frustrating quickly with the amount of stops you have to make to lower and raise the water level, pausing several times to equip and unequip the boots and sloooooowly sinking to the floor. Maybe it is nostalgia but i really apreciate the challenge today, and it is probably the most memorable temple of oot for me, along with forest and fire temples
@@LittleBeanGreen was talking about your statement about being the best dungeon in the history of zelda, never heard anyone say that lol
@@AcceleratorEsper0 What's your favorite?
The Switch and its fake baby dungeons are reminding everyone how well crafted they used to be. TotK is a joke.
Especially that Water Temple
If my experience with the OoT Forest Temple (still unbeaten) is anything to go by, all of OoT’s dungeon’s are confusing and severally headache inducing. I haven’t even beaten it because I have no idea what to do, where to go, or my actual objective. I dread the day I reach the other temples, if it ever arrives.
You will probably not like the Water Temple 😅 Go slow, pay attention, use your map, take it one room at a time.
@@LittleBeanGreen Fair assessment, I’ll certainly keep this in mind. It’ll probs be awhile until then (was playing OoT using the NSO+EP).
I adore the water temple love, but will not STAND FOR 3DS SLANDER !!!
Then tell Nintendo to stop fixing things that ain't broken!
You see, just because you are a masochist the temple isnt suddenly good.
You're right - it was good before I was a masochist.