What's the deal with the Red/Green Cavaliers? Cains and Abels - Fire Emblem Character Archetypes
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2017
- In today's episode we're taking a look at a series staple: the red and green Christmas cavaliers Cain and Abel! After being Marth's right hand men in the original FE1 and Shadow Dragon, they've become their own character archetype with just about all of the games in the series featuring a pair of red and green cavaliers paying homage to them. This archetype includes Cain and Abel, Lukas and Forsyth, Boey and Mae, Luke and Roderick, Noish and Alec, Kain and Alva, Allen and Lance, Kent and Sain, Forde and Kyle, Kieran and Oscar, Sully and Stahl, and even Saizo and Kaze. What's the deal with them? Why two? What's the difference? Which is better? Let's take a look!
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Christmas came early! Merry Christmas and Happy holidays. I expected 50 comments about the glitter on my face that's somewhat noticeable... 9:40 explains it lol!
*Discord here:* bit.ly/luckycritdiscord
Lucky Crit for the next arch-types could you do either the Mercenary vs Myrmidon or the Thief and Cleric one?
+The Sleepy Quagsire What do you mean by mercenary vs myrmidon? The other I understand
Lucky Crit I thought there was a Ogma vs Navarre arch-type. Like with Lon'qu and Gregor.
Lucky Crit Camus archetype
Lucky Crit marry Christmas and happy holidays to you love you videos.
I'm red/green color blind.
Mangs I Sorry mangs. But hey you get 5 POINTS. Marry Christmas you ho ho ho ho hos.
Mangs Wait how you know which is a *Green unit* them
Are you really? Wow Christmas must be pretty boring then. And what's with all these bland cavaliers!
I just look at the unit that kills itself.
Mangs fair enough xD
"Their bases tend to echo their growth rates."
I get it!
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I was going to mention that too, it's funny. XD Glad others caught that.
it's not that subtle, i caught on that too
Mae and boey are my favorite red green archetype.
Darrius Austin those Characters are just awesome
appi105 I love their dialogue and personalities.
Darrius Austin same
I shipped them in my play through
Easily my favorite of the Abel/Cain archetype is Sain. Just a generally fun character and a great unit.
Iirc Sain was quite the ladies man, too
Sain and Kent are👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Gatrie > Sain
It's a shame that Kent gets to marry Lyn over Sain. I guess you could say it was... in-Sain
Luke is almost the same as sign, but a bit more aloof.
What about the "yellow" cavalier that is different but still kind of fits in with trend? Some examples being Lowen, Franz and Kagero.
Not sure if that's an official one but now that you mention it there's definitely a few like that. I'll look into it more!
Lucky Crit dont forget frey
Well that's if you don't count Franz and Amelia as the part of the archetype
Tony Power But why would someone even? Amelia isn't a native Cav, for one (and you get a lot in SS so not making her a Knight -> General is a bit of a waste (unless you Super Recruit). She doesn't have the class dynamics of the archetype, nor the character dynamics with Franz the same way. Square character, round archetype
Slash Kub hey I have no idea, I just mentioned it because it's a thing people debate over.
Love the "obviously, the best color is" *TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES*
Really funny and a great way to keep people guessing
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Well it's still obvious which is the best color ! It's-
it's red because christmas tharja
Jokes on you, the best color is both.
I always called them the mario and luigi archetype
The best color is blue, for those of you who are wondering.
Ben Young Especially for hair. XD
I hope you are Abel to monetize this video :p
I too hope he Cain monetize this video
Hopefully TH-cam won't tell me I Kent use the music anymore
Pavise, you slay us.
Lucky Crit Maybe you can Stahl for time?
smh y’all are a bunch of smart alecs
I would have to say my favorite Cain and Abel is mae and boey. Although subtle, they gave more personality to the characters, not just archetypes, but just more different type of Cain and Abel with different focuses. I mean the echoes version of course.
They're also really easy to keep track of, Boey being slow and tanky, while Mae is fast, strong, and frail. Glass cannon like. The other's we'll have to study to remember..
You remembered Thracia. Now it’s Intelligent System’s turn. WHERE IS LEIF IN HEROES
He has to show up eventually!
Chris Mele but at least they remember reinhardt and olwen, which they're from thracia 776
Will Chen Yeah, though Reinhardt isn't a playable unit, but rather an enemy Boss (and one of the most terrifying in the series, might I add).
No, first we need Ryuto, and THEN they can do whatever they want.
Dark Advent then berserk reinhardt
Ah, the Christmas Knights. Among my favourite of the archetypes, they're usually among the most reliable characters you get. I guess I favour the green ones, seeing as Sain, Oscar and Kaze are my favourite characters from this archetype. Sain is hilarious and a great unit on the battlefield esp. if you do use Lyn mode to make him stronger, Oscar is one of the most reliable characters in an FE game I've ever had (which fits with his personality), and Kaze's ninja skills were quite useful as a support unit in Fates.
The greens are usually a bit more zany personality-wise, which I think tends to have them be remembered a bit more, for sure!
The only Christmas Cav Duo i'd say are unreliable are Alec/Noish and Kyle/Forde. Both have their uses, but are really underwhelming compared to the likes of Kent/Sain and Cain/Abel.
Speaking of Christmas I wonder who wants a candycain
Could mutton kill Dorcas Game Theory when?
VSAUCE.... Matpat here, WHAT IF DORCAS WAS THE MUTTON?
Lucky Crit What happened to Dorcas? But hey it a theory a game theory.
Lucky Crit Dorcas is actually Flowey and the Mutton was Asriel
no, it definitely couldn't. have you seen poison damage in the elibe duology? it sucks ass. 1 damage per turn on a unit with 30 base HP and an 80% growth is nothing. hell, in heroes, dorcas even says "well, i had some bad mutton earlier, but i feel fine otherwise."
How about Kieran and Oscar? It's pretty stated by IS that they're those red/green rivals in Radiant Dawn (more than Path or Radiance) because they even get a base conversation confirming this.
They're in here? Not sure what you mean. I skipped over Radiant Dawn since it was pretty much just them again.
I hope you cover the Maria archetype: The second healer you recruit. Usually a troubadour nowadays. Usually has to be rescued. (ie: Maria, Yumina/Yuliya, Lachesis, Nanna, Clarine, Priscilla, L'Arachel, Mist, Maribelle, maybe Tatianna?)
I get confused with the Cains and Abels constantly, because I prefer the speedier ones like Lance, Alec, Kent, Kaze etc, but most of them are green, so Abels, but have Cain attributes. So do I prefer the Cains now or the Abels?
I made some notes after the fact to nail down the percentages of who has what, and if we consider Boey to be red (aka, the skills that are usually red even though he's green) and the other flip flops the correct colors, then Green has 10/13 Speed, 7/13 Skill, 8/13 Luck, and 5/13 Res while Red has 12/13 HP, 8/13 Strength (this one blew me away as it seemed the reds usually skipped Strength in the games I was most familiar with) 10/13 Defense, 5/13 Skill, etc etc. So a little different than perhaps I originally stated, but it tends to follow that formula a lot.
Lucky Crit Well, that makes determining who's what a bit more easy
Kent sucks sain is better.
How fitting, Christmas knights just before Christmas.
Best Cain and Abel archtypes for me would definitely have to be, Lukas
Stahl
Sain and lastly Cain himself.
Lukas is an undercover hot head who actually loves a good fight and he expresses it so calmly that it's hilarious because he's someone you just don't expect it from lol. Stahl is such an average Joe and is a big foodie, you can't but help not love the guy for his quirks. Sain, is just inSAIN. His supports are comical and my favorite moment was the Serra A support. There's just something funny about how he handles rejection. And Cain. You can tell he's really loyal to marth and for some reason, I just love that about him. Shadow Dragon didn't really give us an insight as to what he was like very much. But in its sequel, that's where we get a deeper insight to what he's like
And he's also one of my favorite units to use in both the games he's in, and in heroes as well.
Sorry for the mini essay. I couldn't decide on one character. They're all just so great in their own ways
5:30 I see what you did there
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I don’t get it. It’s jsut Mae and Boey. Where’s the joke?
Oh now I get it
I've noticed a lot of times that the Christmas Retainers are often balanced well enough with each other that I rarely end up seeing one as clearly better barring instances of clear RNG shenanigans at play.
Usually, one is better at offense, but more fragile, while the other is tankier, but maybe not as strong offensively due to lower speed and thus more difficulty reliably double-attacking. I find that both often have their place!
+Gene Bratton Exactly! I think in some cases some of them start off with higher weapon ranks and access to javelins and stuff which can make or break things on higher difficulties, but for the most part they compliment each other nicely and don't really outclassed one another.
Kieran is better than Oscar.
I also like the parallels in their personalities. The reds are a bit more energetic and wild (Luke, Mae, Sully) (Lukas and Kent the exception here, as Forsyth and Sain fit this better), and the greens are more calm and levelheaded (Abel, Oscar, Stahl in particular).
Thanks for the awesome Christmas video!
I think I prefer the red units more- I feel like I get a more reliable HP unit and that their hits usually hit, even if they’re not as strong sometimes. Kent and Sain will always be my first 😆
+ElNeekoo Merry Christmas and Happy holidays!
Cain and Abels I feel were left out: Orsin and Halvan, Bartre and Dorcas (sort of), and Larcei and Ulster. Great video as always!
Green, just cause it my favorite color. But I did use both. Kaze being my favorite out of the Fates series, he got swagger. And Sully is a badass who I prefer over stahl. Still I love this archetype either way.
I think one thing somewhat worth noting is how there are commonly flipflops personality wise amongst the cavalier colors. Particularly, usually one of the cavs is hotheaded and zealous (Cain, Kieran, Luke, and Forsyth, to give two examples in each color) while the other is more levelheaded and composed (examples being the opposites of the prior mentioned characters). It's not a huge deal, just a noticeable inconsistency I've seen amongst the christmas cavs. It's definitely a trend in terms of the archetype as a whole, just with variation amongst whose who.
It would’ve been nice if you talked more about the character dynamics. Forsyth and Lukas fulfill the same class and green/red color scheme requirement, but Python and Forsyth better suit the banter between the archetypes.
+mochi Very true. I could definitely have spent more time on each as there was certainly a lot to discuss, but I didn't want the video to be too long and we had a lot to get through :/
Thanks for the Jeigan/Oifey addendum. It's pretty important to me as your videos target a larger audience from the FE fanbase, thus misconceptions carry greater risk. Merry christmas!
I honestly like the green ones more, as I've noticed a lot of the red ones have higher luck growths, which honestly, while it can be important, is nowhere near as influential as Str, Spd, Def, or even Res or Skill.
I'm the best
Mah boi Sain My man!
Mah boi Sain Indeed!
Lowen
Did you find your girl now?
Lance?
Great video yet again! I tend to favor the Red cav, but then I really play for tankier options and even a 5% advantage in def growth is appealing to me. In a world where everyone seems to value speed above all else, I say the counter to speed is def/res. I could go on more about this, but I don't feel like writing that much right now....
Usually, a Cain prefers swords, while an Abel prefers lances. Awakening is the exception.
Wohoo! Another archetype! Thanks, Crit!
Thanks for tuning in. Happy holidays :)
For you as well!
I always saw the personality pattern as: Abel is the more calm and collected cavalier, while Cain is the more hotheaded, reckless cav.
(E.G. Alan and Lance, Cain and Abel, Oscar and Kieran, Luke and Rody, Forde and Kyle, etc.)
Do the "Est" or "Gotoh" arcatype next.
Oh god. The Est archetype.
*Est arcatype?*
*A bunch of little girls that like to kill people?*
Doogle McBerry Elincia isnt a little girl tho.
CatManThree goes meow
Forgot about her. xd
This would be very interesting and we can do a growth comparison to see who’s the worst and the best when it comes to joining late
I hope you will do more archetypes!
+Pfnoll If people keep enjoying them I certainly will!
Personality wise, they also seem to switch them between the characters as well. I think my favorites are the Echoes ones and Binding Blade.
Green
Echoes has my favorite Green/Red Cavalier stereotypes.
I really, really, REALLY want a Tokyo Mirage Sessions port for Switch....
+The Silent Dragon That would be interesting!
You got it in 2019-2020
I love this series. I’m rewatching again as I replay Echoes 😊
I'll try to make a new one in the coming months!
Great video. I feel like you could’ve also talked about Frey from fire emblem shadow dragon as he sort of fits in as a third blue cavalier.
Yeah Frey is an interesting case.. I think at some point I'd like to do a video on the extra + gaiden characters of Shadow Dragon!
merry christmas and happy holida really interesting all stat all unit
Great video as always, as a long time Fire Emblem fan, I always appreciate the high quality content that you provide us.
As for myself, I always preferred the red knight over the green knight but I always kind of ended up using both due to their early game availability and my personal bias towards the two knights. The best christmas cavs in my opinion will have to go to Forde and Kyle because I really think they represent the "laid back/serious" personalities very nicely as well as each of them having tremendous amounts of respect for each other and their craft outside of their swordplay. No forreals, it's in the Forde/Kyle support where we see the passion Forde has for traditional arts, and why he's so attached to it.
The only other 'christmas cav' that i enjoyed was Kaze/Saizo for their uniqueness, and while Kaze hits the enemies with paper shurikens later down in the game Kaze was still a bro and Saizo was the forerunner for me in my Revelation playthrough.
My good you're right
I immediately thought of Kent and sain bit there are so many
Talk about the Draug archetype. It isnt official, and may not even technically completely be a thing, but it is certainly interesting.
Also you need an excuse to talk about everyone bois Arden and Marty.
+CatManThree goes meow Oh trust me, I will definitely have an Arden video at some point. But yes I will consider looking into the draugs
My favorite Archetype by far
These two is always handy in every games
Please do Camus next
Really nice! As for me... hmmm... I'm not sure which one I prefer, lol!
I always liked having lots of speed to dodge, but defense is really important too... oy.
+Pioneering Studios Both then, I guess :)
Since the Cavaliers switch what traits they have like kyle n ford I don't have a set one I use most often . If I can I try to use both like Allen and Lance
1:53
i hear a lot that there aren't really any scans or high resolution images available of this book. i own it and can scan/photograph it anytime, so lmk if you ever need pictures of it in the future? i can't read japanese though haha
great video, glad to see some appreciation for the best archetype
Wow that's incredibly generous of you! I guess it would be interesting to see all of the "official archetype" pages! That sounds like a lot of work.. so no worries if you can't. But if you were interested in scanning it I will of course credit you! It's difficult to track comment threads so join the Discord link in the description and give me a shout if you are indeed interested! Regardless, happy holidays!
oh, thanks for the response!
i went looking for the pages you mentioned and didn't find it.... the majority of the pages is dedicated to archanea (including timeline of the game events, full character artwork with biographies, full JP script excluding base conversations, CG artworks, character and item list)
there is a secton at the end of the book dedicated to the entire series, and i found pages that compares each game with each other. there's a neat chart that tells whether or not games have certain mechanics (class change, overworld map, triangle attack...).
said page does touch on archetypes, such as triangle attackers and jagen (it even mentioned how seth and titania have higher growth rates than most jagens), but i found nothing about the cain/abel archetype. i'll keep looking but there's no guarantees i'll find it! i'm using machine translation so the process is slow.
i'll join the discord, just mention me if you might need anything from me!
I think anything about archetypes at all would be cool to see, but yeah that makes sense, you're on a wild goose chase looking for things in other languages. Sorry about that!
what music was playing when Lukas and Forsyth were being discussed?
Some archetypes i've noticed
-Abel/Cain
-Jagen
-Endgame Pre-promote
-Purple haired mages (gba) (at least one)
-Long-haired myrmidons (exception is Lon'qu)
-Badass Wyvern Lady (why tf are they always girls?!)
-Rude Troubadour (UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM) (OR IF THEYRE ELISE) (OR PRISCILLA)
-Abnormal hair colors on Dancers (why can they just have un-dyed hair?) (Shut up Lalum)
-A SECOND LORD (that tends to be better than the original) (heck the only exception i say exists is fe 7 cuz Lyn is my favorite)
-A meaningful bad guy
-A not-so meaningful bad guy
AND MANY MOOOOOORE
Maybe you could have observed that the Halvan and Othin duo of fighters of FE5's initial team, though diverging from the archetype class wise, are there to fill those two slots in a similar way. It's an experiment on the same idea overall.
And that the "Saga" games still follow the archetype.
I tend to go more for the strong, tanky guys, but I always love to keep the speedier, higher hit rate guys for faster foes.
Lucky Crit, between playing FEE: SoV completely blind and replaying with your help I've become a huge fan of your channel
Really glad you're enjoying the videos! A lot of the Echoes videos could use an update though. Stuff like the Boots guide and so on. I will eventually revisit this, mark my words. I just had a lot of other stuff to get through!
Lucky Crit I treat them like suggestion now :P first game I've played blind in a long time and it's been amazing
1:57 I want a that of that Katarina and Clarisse picture
Please do a video about the rough and tough mercenaries! Gerik for life!
Oh I didn't know Luke was the counterpart to Roderick! I benched him in favour of Cecil in my recent FE3 playthrough. Better support bonuses and also I just love Cecil's pink and purple.
I like red more but I usually pick green units more
I always use both. Sometimes on the same map and other times they swap one gets benched while the other fights.
Nice video. I suppose my favorites are Kent and Sain, Kieran, Forde and Kyle, and Kaze and Saizo, and Mae. I never really bothered much with the rest.
And on the subject of archetypes and Kieran. Could L'Rachel be considered an eccentric hammy archetype setter that Kieran, Owain, and Opheia proudly and flamboyantly followed?
JJO902 she's likely more the Maria archetype (midish-game unpromoted healer, in later games usually a Troubadour, often needs to be rescued, often of noble blood, and tend to be better healers than your earlier game ones. Priscilla and Maribelle also count). Fates doesn't have one, really, though Forrest is an arguable example given Leo is a mid-late game unit (and taking longer to S Rank and have his son), and Forrest fits the class, needing rescue, nobility, and design aesthetics.
I think for Fates that Rinkah and Kaze are the Cain/Able archetypes because they're available on every path and still fit the same personality tropes as Saizo and Kaze, though I guess they don't really have the history together (like you mentioned) that Saizo/Kaze do
I usually end up using the Reds more often, like Sully and Kent.
They are pretty reliable!
Lucky Crit indeed!
To quote JelloApocoplyse:
TWO CALAVIERS
TWO CALAVIERS
There's this image ongoogle I saw that made me want to think Franz and Cavalier Amelia as the red and green units... plus you can ship them xD
You gonna do the Navarre type next ?
Anyone else think Franz and Amelia are meant to be a Cavalier duo in the Sacred Stones? They work well together.
never thought of that as i always made amelia a general but i can see that
I don't really have a preference. In my first play through of Awakening, I didn't use either Sully or Stahl. In my second play through, however, I used Sully the most and promoted her to paladin. For Echoes, I've been using both Lucas and Forsyth together.
Cord and Bord next?
I love how this is still up to date since FE 17 throws out the classic archetypes for playable characters
Speaking of Fates, Silas and Peri fit the archetype in Conquest pretty well, and they're even both cavaliers. It just isn't obvious at first because it isn't their armor or hair that's red and green, it's their eyes!
Kinda funny how Fates gives you both Abels no matter what path you take, but only one Cain unless you play Revelations.
+Delzethin This one is interesting. I'll have to look into it as I hadn't seen anyone mention it before
Oh, putting in a request for the Est archetype. It'd be interesting, especially as some latet games like Awakening and Fates have kinda kicked the trend a bit, insofar as having units really considered "late game", since child units are theoretically accessible right after the chapter their parents joined, and scale level (and Offspring Seal) to be relatively on par with the game's current challenge level. Some would call Donnel and Mozu examples, but with the subversion of being Paralogue units (and I think the only notable units that you get ih a Paralogue in those games other than child units , which are their own mechanic, and oh yeah Tiki. Can't remember if the spotpass six are Paralogues, but most people ignore them anyway, so). Or is perhaps Donnel a new archetype forming (possibly a spiritual successor to the trainees in SS)? I'd love to see a video that discusses that. Especially since, like most Ests, Donnel and Mozu are characters that break the base a lot in argument of how good they are or aren't, depending on what you prioritise
Thanks for the suggestion! Happy holidays!
Abel in shadow dragon was one of my favorite units and be pretty much gave Mr a bias from then on out
What do you think about Peri and Silas? Some people say they’re the Christmas cavaliers of Conquest because of their eye color.
Interesting point though they are obtained at different times they still fit the role in a way.
Bewear Gaymer I don’t know how their stats align but it’d be nice if that’s true. It always bothered me that Birthrights had a pair but Conquest didn’t
Eh, I just don't see it. May as well say Laslow and Selena sre a merc variant. There's a small touch of green in his hair, after all.
Maybe if you get back to the archetype videos, you could do some villain archetypes as well?
Wait, the third cavalier from FE3/12 with the red armour doesn't relate with Luke and Rody? And what about Franz and Amelia from FE8? I see them as the secondary Cain and Abel of Sacred Stones (If you make her a cav)
Are Othin and Halvan not red/green units in Thracia?
Do Sylvain and Ingrid count in Three Houses?
Am I the only one thinking that Abel and Cain archetype could also be referencing Mario and Luigi? A little bit stretched I guess. But... hmmm... If I could make a Mario and Luigi cameo on Fire Emblem... I guess both would appear as fighters wielding hammers. Bowser would be a General with either a dracoshield from fire emblem echoes, or an Axe weapon that resembles the lightning sword from the same game, but with fire instead of thunder.
I'm more a Cains user than abel but in FE7 sain was my mvp and he's so cool
PS:Nice content,i sub for more,MORE
Forde and Kyle also switched the personalities, with Forde being the easygoing one.
Luke and Rody seem switched as well.
Blitz_Dude1610 YandereBoy Luke is blue as well aha
*Looks at Stahl and Sully*
I'm glad that you decided to not say what the best color is and I like how you transitioned it to
The green ones were always my favorites.
Abel, Sain, Kyle, Oscar, Lance, Stahl... even my boi Forsyth.
The colors aren't consistent, but my preference for speedier units is: I strongly prefer Abel, Mae, Oscar, Noish, Sully, and so on. :)
Alec is faster than Noish.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 then why did my Alec die?
I usually choose the red units for what stats they focus on but I did not that the stats the characters prioritized were flipped in the sacred stones and I kinda feel stupid after finding that out!😂
For whatever reason I tend to never use either of the Christmas Knights, so I guess I don't really have a color preference. Maybe red, just because I like Lukas a lot (I don't really know why, I just used him a lot in Echoes)
+That Guy Who do you tend to use instead?
Lucky Crit I know this is kind of a boring answer but I can barely remember much of any of my play throughs before Echoes, and a little of Fates. I should really get around to replaying some of them/ playing the ones I haven't gotten around to yet, which is basically anything pre-GBA
Just a note; I find it a little weird that you added Kaze and Saizo but not Othin and Halvan, as they are FE5's pair of [class]. I do realize that they don't follow the red/green color scheme, but a lot of other units on the list don't either.
Two cavaliers, two cavaliers
I just realized this archetype exists in FE3H as Sylvain & Ingrid
Ingrid has like no green on her though, except for the tiniest hues in the post skip design
Also, if you mean to tell me that your Ingrid was a cavalier and not on a pegasus, you sir terrify me.
@@Lechgang well, Ingrid mentions multiple times she loves horse riding, and riding is one of her strong subjects
I'm not stupid enough to not put her on a pegasus, but her riding affinity is a fact
I never knew sain growths was like that every time I play that fire emblem game he always had good speed stats
Sometime there are Blue cavalier like Noah and Frey and there another Green Cavaliers which fall behind
(1:48) I can't believe it took that long to acknowledge these archetypes. These archetypes are useful developmental tools.
in awakening i use a second seal on frederick to demote him to knight for the skills as well as when i promote him back into a great knight with much better stats than he did before
I use either one, but I moslty use the green one as my first pick. However when it comes to the originals, Cain all the way.
Frey is best Cav
Alva and kain or kein?In his inventory/status screen it clearly said "Kein" or is it another failed translation.
4:31 wow 1 whole extra resistance percent. Clap clap for for you Forsyth
I tend to like the green ones more but I tend to use the red one more