177 RSW Crooked Necked Kentucky Part 1 Tough Fix
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Do you have a crooked neck on your mandolin? You might be surprised how common it is. Seen it many times. In this 3 part series, you will see how I fix the problem. See the links below to see how I built the custom top for this very same mandolin. Also see the link below to my mandolin DVD for sale on my website.
Top Build P1 • 109 RSW Kentucky Mando...
Top Build P2 • 113 RSW Channel Talk K...
Top Build P3 • 116 RSW Kentucky Mando...
Top Build Final • 120 RSW Kentucky Mando...
Mando DVD rosastringwork...
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I would take a large plunge router that has a screw knob depth adjustment. My Freud works this way. Then I would rig a tapering ramp on the sides of a dead flat surface. Stick the wood to be tapered to the flat surface. I would recommend a masking tape layer on both surfaces held together by super glue. Don't use the "good stick" at first. It will take more than one trial runs to get the wedge angles you need, but it will work. I have done many scarf joint angles using a tapered ramp and plunge router. A large router bit will cut a clean surface that requires very little sanding to make a glue surface. You may need to use a 1/4" MDF router base to slide on the ramp without binding or chattering. That's the way I'd do it, but "there is more than one way to skin a cat" says Jerry.
Checked my old Batwing and yes it has a crooked neck. Been hard to play for years. Now I know. Thanks
I use a popcicle stick for bass side a guitar the other end is sanded to .080 just a tip for anyone that dosnt work on them all the time ,very nice repair learned alot
Thank Goodness you're a Dark Knight fan!
I wish you had your mask on to match the tee while you did this repair Probably end with a million hits with appropriate title.Love your work, modesty and ethics.
George Krabs thank you very much for watching.
Yes. Just bought a used k630 and it has the same problem in other direction. Thank you for showing me how to fix it. Love watching you solve the difficult problems.
Beautiful work as usual Jerry. Your videos are a great way to learn about all the various structural elements that define and support the total instrument. Thanks Jerry, keep 'em coming.
stebly7 you are welcome thank you very much.
Jerry, I have a friend with an Kentucky mando and it has the same twist problem. He sent it to their repair facility and they basically said it was within tolerances. I thought Kentucky was a good quality mandolin. He builds new mandos but he doesn't do repairs so I'll have to see if he wants to go to this extent with his. Good idea for the fix and not impossible. Good stuff Jerry.
Dane Nichols thanks.
Just discovered your videos. Would be great if you had someone who could x-ray those necks (and other parts) to see how they were constructed underneath. Really enjoying your craftsmanship and explanations.
Just found your channel- as to the “ don’t know about epoxy “ releasing with heat- the stuff I spent years working with starts getting plastic at around 140 degrees Fahrenheit. More heat makes it more plastic. Most think it’s permanent, but heat changes the bond. Put it in your bag of tricks for the next time you need it. Great stuff you do, might get an old friends beater and rework the neck in his memory since you have shown me how do able it is! Thanks
I have a The Loar 520-VS that the treble side of the fretboard is way higher than the bass side. It is playable, but I do have to level the frets.There are a couple of high frets at 10-13 so I will address all of this with a total re-fret/ fretboard leveling
Sir, you are really good luthier... and damn good teacher.
I've learn soooo much just watching, listening and replicating yours, Daves and Randys work.
But you really giving us all your knowledge for free in a most practical and very instructional way.
God bless you sir and happy Independence Day :)
p.s. love the shirt :D
Ivan Dimitrijevic thank you very kindly my friend.
I have two mandolins without trussrods and both are bowed. I've tried a heat treatment twice and haven't fixed them yet. I will not give up lol
My bass teacher when I was a kid always would take steel wool and take all the varnish off the neck so his hand could slide easily. Said it made him a lot faster. It does.. so if I get another bass I will take the finish off the back of the neck.
I'm working on a mandolin with a warped peg head, not sure what I'm going to do with it yet...Much fun.
It's obviously WAY too late but I cut accurate and controllable wedges on my jointer.
1. Joint a stick to get one edge and one side flat and square to each other.
2. Rip the other edge and side parallel to the jointed faces.
3. Here's the trick. Set the jointer to take a very small cut then make a pass but start the cut with the leading edge of the stick on the outfeed table. No wood will be cut at the start of the cut. As you continue the cut, more wood will be taken off until the full depth of cut is taken at the very tail end of the cut. This wedge would be along the neck.
3a. If you want more wedge, repeat step 3 until the difference in thickness of the stick from one end to the other gives the desired wedge angle.
4. Rip the wedge off of the now tapered stick to the desired thickness.
Note that a compound wedge can be made by tipping the jointer fence to the desired angle across the neck in step 3.
In my shop, the table saw and jointer are more controllable than the bandsaw. Your mileage may vary, of course.
That looks like a fairly involved repair on an instrument that sounded pretty darn good at the beginning of the video!
I hate customers like that. you scarcely dare touch their instruments.
Quick and easy conversion for mm to in: 1 mm = 0.040" or 1 mm = 40 thousands
Tom Doran thanks Tom. I guess you saw the final video on your guitar.
Yes I did. I put a comment on that video thanking you for the great repair. I love all of your videos. Keep up the great work. You do a great service to all of us who love wood string instruments and want to keep them working properly. Thanks, Tom
Tom Doran thank you Tom. I just discovered today that for whatever reason TH-cam is not notifying me on the comments like it used to.
Hi Jerry, great video. I have a quick off-topic request. The next time you carve in a 🌹 rose again, could you please tape most of it. Since I saw your video when you built one of your mandolins and carved a rose into it, I've been trying to learn to carve. I'd really love to see in detail just how you do it. Just whenever you might be carving one again, thanks! Buddy
Buddy Martin I will do that. Thank you for
next time make the wedge on the Tablesaw........a lot easier.........just make a jig and use a larger piece of wood
If you tilted the fence wouldn't you get your compound radius you needed? Love watching you work, Jerry
Boudreau Guitars yes that would work. However the fence does tilt. The table does but it gets too complicated. Thanks
Yeah, not to mention bandsaws never really cut as accurate as you want them to when you need to most, it's just the nature of the beast.
Boudreau, they don't come with any accessories, so they just make a straight cut, but if you can find a used Hobart meat cutter's band-saw on Craigslist, man those things are incredibly strong (3HP on a three phase 220 or 440 system) with a fairly thick and wide blade. They're a couple of grand used, but the blade doesn't sway much at all. It's got about the most accurate cut I've ever seen. (I was a meat cutter at Kroger for many years.) They're out of my price range, but if you can afford one, they're great to have.
Bill Seper thanks
I checked my 1977 Ibanez model 527 mandolin neck and it is crooked about 1/4 inch in the same bass side direction as the Kentucky. Not noticeable when playing it like you said in the video. The gap between the bridge and saddle at the screws looks like about 1/16 inch on the E side and 1/8 inch on the G side. The bridge height looks symmetrical to the top on both sides.
The adjustable bridge allows for setting string height and at the same time compensates for the slight crooked neck set. Looking forward to the fix video.
Pete Walton thank you for taking a look Pete I appreciate the note. thanks for watching my friend.
A
it's funny a lot of problems we can never really see until we start taking the instrument apart.
Randy Schartiger guitars have skeletons in their closets too. I'm learning that lesson, myself haha.
Randy Schartiger for sure.
Jdyke2059 so true.
A man could make a good livin off repairing those Chinese mandolins...
My new Ibanez is this way. My '51 Martin is straight. Interesting how this is from factory.
Watching your videos really makes me wonder: In the, say, space between $500 and $1000 mandolins, is there a vast difference between quality at purchase and potential? That's a given I suppose, but I just have to wonder how many people are sitting on potentially really good instruments, and instead of putting them aside and "buying up", they would be money ahead to send their already "played in" mandos to a master like yourself to tweek them into their best possible tone and playability.
+J R's Place there are plenty of really really good mandolins in those price ranges. A really good setup can a world of difference. Thanks for watching. Happy New Year.
Mr. Rosa,
Just watched this video. I’m a new subscriber so I was looking at some of the previous videos. In this repair of the crooked neck, could you make the wedge before removing the fret board? Seems like you could make it nearly perfect first then remove the fret board and tweak it to perfection. Just a thought.
I have a 1966 set neck gibson melodymaker that the neck is crooked. I figured that was norma l:)
Andy Fab all you have to do is Define normal to your satisfaction. LOL thank you very much for watching.
I know you are trying to be humble, but you should never call your playing "lame". It will only make you less confident and thus worse at playing. Just give it all you got and more and it will never be lame, even if it's not perfect.
Keep it up
Rey Valdovinos thank you very much. I will try.
Why couldn't you remove material from the bass side of the neck instead of adding a wedge to make the treble side thicker? Just curious why that wouldn't be a simpler solution Jerry
The neck angle was too low. So I'm fixing to problems with one solution.
Just a quick observation
You did a wonderful job. But you said 2 things that puzzled me. You made a statement that you made the top for this instrument, then said you couldn’t tell how the neck was attached without taking the top off. If you built the top didn’t you notice how the neck was attached at that time? Or could you not review the prior video?
Again, your fix was great, just confused by these 2 statements.
I see you were wearing a Batman tee shirt in this video, but wouldn't a Lex Luthier shirt have been more appropriate?
my fix for a sweet all solid f-style washburn mandolin for 350 all said done delivered to the the door but only thing that was a bummer to find out there was a hump in the neck were the body and neck meet ive just gotten by keeping the strings up higher so they dont buzz but i would love to be able to get them lower and have a smoother ease of playability im wondering if taking some metal off the frets and dressing them could possibly fix it idk im a complete amatuer when it comes to the working on my gear im a pro with my gear just need my skills as a luthier get half way to were im at as a player of every instrument under the sun ive got my double neck marlen pedal steel guitar in the shop got very lucky i found a guy in greensboro that use to work in the emmonns steel factory for 20 years and hes doing me. right complete set up and cleaning for 35$ plus strings and a spring but he qouted me 40$ i had been driving myself nuts trying to figure out how to get my pedal steel back to rhe way it was when i brought it home love your videos your free classes are life savers and inspire me to become better at what i love and that playing but if you cant work on your own stuff i feel your missing out on some of the joy of being a musician
I've got 4 mandolins or Mandolas and the neck is not absolutely level on any of them. Mind you £500 is the most expensive one I have, until I get much, much better at playing
+Richard Ellis yeah it's fairly common. It doesn't bother me too much but some people it really drives him crazy. Thanks for watching. Merry Christmas.
Curious: could you raise the action at the bridge on the mandolin before taking the fingerboard off to find out where the sweet spot is, and then use that as your target when you make the wedge? Or do you just have to guess where you think the sweet spot is and make the wedge and hope that you're right?
??? I started watching all your guitar videos, so I'm just getting around to the old mando vids. Pardon my ignorance, but in a case like this, instead of making a compound wedge, why wouldn't you take down the bass side of the neck until the neck face is level, then add a regular wedge to change the neck angle? I hope you check the old vids and I get an answer to this.
Wondering if the grain direction is why it was more difficult to get the fret board off on that end ?
Some of that is because the diameter of the strings on the base side are larger and since the bottoms of the strings are parallel to the fret board, wouldn’t that make that angle worse?
Jerry...like the Tee..assume that was in honor of Adam West? ..
I like Batman. But to be truthful no I was just wearing it cuz I had it.
Just Curious...When Heating the Fret Board for Removal, were U ever faced with Loosening the Frets, or Releasing the Binding?
chickengnawer no generally speaking it has no effect on that. thank you for watching.
👍🏻👍🏻
Gil Lamb thanks Gil.
I checked my mandolin and there's not much about it that's straight. The nut looks about level with the top, but then the fretboard seems to have a twist in it, and the bridge is about 1/16" higher off the top on the bass side, which I never noticed before. It's over 100 years old, so some twistiness probably comes with age, but they must have made the bridge like that on purpose.
Cadwaladr yes it's more common than you think to have them a little bit twisty. Thank you for watching.
Isn't it supposed to be at an angle, because of the string thickness? If it was lower on that side would those strings buzz? Some people are never happy. 🤨
I wonder if that is a standard dove tail because there is on 15th fret plastic cross piece?
Can't chuck up the neck in a mill and mill it level ? Then put on a thicker fret board.
Richard Mead the bridge is already too low compared to the neck so cutting the one side lower would just make it even worse. thank you for watching.
3 folk downvoted this.
Who & why, would anyone down vote this?
Subscribe to ya and get a brand new video the same day. I call that good customer service
steathbomer I try to please. Lol thank you for watching my friend.
Another inspiring repair, Jerry. Really awesome! I'm more a guitar player than a mandolin player but I'm improving. What is your opinion of those metal tone guard devices that attach to the back of carved back mandolins? BTW, My Eastman's neck seems to be pretty straight across although the arch makes it hard to really determine slant or no slant.
3 of my 4 mandolin family instruments have the angle off. but does not bother me.
S. Ryan Russell it doesn't bother me much either. Thank you for watching.
I wish I was able to send my 20-year-old fender flat top to you. The bridge is letting paper under it and action is too high.
Ray Britt thank you my friend. I'd be happy to fix it for you if you ever decide to send it.
E. gribbin
Jerry, buddy, friend...Slow down when showing things to us on camera. You swipe and twirl and back and forth so fast it makes me dizzy. I want to see what you are talking about AND I want to see your excellent craftsmanship. When you rake the instruments back and forth so fast or give a close up and hold it there for .5 seconds, I can't process the visual. Thanks for ALL of your videos and have a great day! Slow down...PLEASE! God Bless, brother.
I Enjoy watching your videos but please litle less talking my best Y Ö
am i the only one thinking this is a very expensive face lift - ie a purely cosmetic operation - not even a face lift as no one will be able to see the difference lol
so much bs
paul c thanks for watching.