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I wasn't aware this was a Jack Saint video until the end because your mum was just such a force of personality in this video. I also now see why you're such a force of personality yourself. Great video, mate 🖤🏳️🌈
What do you mean by "it made the police look better" when you said it is odd they hired an actor in their 20's to play the role of a 14 year old victim?
I feel like for this show, as well as the actual case, anyone pushing the idea that Jeffrey Dahmer didn't affect the black community (in the way they say it's pushing a "black lives matter" rhetoric/narrative) fails to understand how small the black gay community would've been during the late 1970s/1980s. no matter who Jeffrey Dahmer killed, it affected more people than we'd like to admit. those families lost their sons who were already a target by being both black and gay, and that was such a small margin of the Milwaukee population that every single murder was monumental. there is no narrative to push, it just is that way.
Thank you. Many folks in Milwaukee that were aware during that time (this generations 20 yr olds parents and so on) esp black people don’t like this show!! My mother lived and walked past Dahmers apartment building taking my brother to daycare daily at the time. Once she found out she didn’t leave her apartment for anything but work for years. There was absolutely no reason to make this show other than black trauma is the new trendy genre
yeah it was pretty baffling to hear that that was a common criticism of the show. I feel like true crime fans of all people should know that its not uncommon for killers to target people who's deaths wouldn't be cared about as much, often this was prostitutes but a lot of times it can be gay, trans, black etc people. I wonder if a lot of true crime fans only care about the psychology of individual killers and how it made them do what they did, and not so much the community they were in and how it led them to do what they did
This is why I appreciated the show. It showed a part of the dahmer story I literally knew nothing about and tried it back into problems we're still hearing about and facing today.
I think the sad reality is that people find serial killers and their deeds fascinating, so they are the ones that people are interested in. The story of a victim is that an ordinary person was brutally killed at random. The story of a serial killer feels special and novel in a gruesome way. The viewer thinks about what caused them to do these things and how they did them, and there is a morbid fascination there. Also, in the story of a victim, they have little to no agency because that was taken away from them. The killer's story is entirely based on their own agency, and people tend to prefer stories where the focus has agency. Sadly, it's a lot of different things that make it so that the monsters who deserve the least attention get the most of it.
I agree with you completely. And I find it, well, really fucking annoying and disheartening when people excuse the work of honoring and remembering victims of a violent crime with "well, that's just how the world is." You know we can change things right? We have the full capacity and knowledge to spread the names of the 17 people that dahmer killed and bring meaning back to the lives they lost. You can just say you don't give a shit about people's lives and indulge in sensationalism.
Why exactly? The people who were victims didn't do anything interesting, or of note. Dahmer did something horrible and rare, and so is historically interesting to people. People want to understand rare events in history, and Dahmer will be part of that, whether you like it or not. Your obviously sheltered and can't deal with reality. Continue to shelter yourself if you want, but stop demanding others shelter themselves from reality... People can learn about anyone they want. If you're interested in the victims more, go make your own show about it.
They made this show all about Dahmer's life, with the murders being presented as the peak of his 'miserable existence' and the thing is- We shouldn't care about Dahmer's life. He's not some broken protagonist. He was the reason so many innocent people of colour lost their lives in brutal, inhumane ways and we should focus on them instead. It's always 'Jeffrey Dahmer and his victims' and never 'The lives that should have been'.
@@Thechickinaaronscar I watched the first three episodes. It made me sick to my stomach, how there was such an intense focus on Dahmer's backstory and, quite frankly, I couldn't give less of a fuck about his childhood or his family. The victims' stories were an afterthought in comparison to the reasoning behind Dahmer's murders and it doesn't matter if there is more emphasis on them as the show goes on. The central theme has been set. The fucking title of the show is his name. I don't need to watch it in its entirety to understand that Netflix's intention was to make money off of psychoanalyzing a murderer and disrespecting the victims and their families in the process. Fuck this show.
"He is almost regretful", that's pretty bold statement for the actor? because last I checked the reason Dahmer himself was murdered in prison was because he would constantly taunt people with cannibalism.
@@Nirroir If true, that kinda makes his statement worse both as an actor trying to portray a real person and defending someone whose defining pop culture traits for almost 30 years are killer/cannabal.
Dahmer taunted his inmates so that they would kill him. He wanted to die. His lawyers suggested he stay in protective custody but he told them to move him to the general prison population because whatever happened to him there he deserved it.
I mean in the interviews that Dahmer spoke in. He did fully cooperate with the police and denied nothing once he was caught. He also sounded kind of relieved that they stopped him as he himself believed he would have never stopped. That is "almost" regretful as it gets. Especially when you compare him to other serial killers. The reason he was killed in Prison. Is because of the taunting. But also because he was annoying people with his disrespect first and foremost.
Also, can we point out how hypocritical it is, that they had this segment about the memorial for the victims, and yet they don't even bother contacting the victims themselves For the people who dont know what a victim is: the family members are also victims of jeffreys murders 😐 many people suffered from his actions
@@KoreaMojo oh that is definitely the case. It's sad, if i haven't watched this video i wouldn't have know about this double standart. Netflix is pretty good at things staying hush and manipulation.. (i dont use many other socials like twitter where the victoms spoke out) besides cuties (🤮) they don't get the backlash they deserve
also pointing out how they never received proper justice or reparations, while also making record-breaking profits and giving absolutely none of it to those people they pretended to care about
FFS so if you make a movie about WW2 you should contact all the families of victims beforehand?This is history and it shouldnt be censored,better to remember
Your Professor is to sensitive.. They not make Dahmer likable if peoples who fall for this are retards .. For me they showed very wel how a monster he really was Just now youtube put up a 2 year old video saying Dear Internet Stop Crushing for Jefrey Dahmer.. Believe me, people were stupid before, and not because of this series.. the impact of this series is negligible ! But in this case why they make film about Albert Fish many year ago who is the most evil child eater cannibal ?? Albert fish film not hated?
@@queenkurumi8504 it wasn’t just about this series, he went off about the romanticization of serial killers like dahmer, and how this series is just adding to it. In criminal justice there’s things called “celebrated cases” which include things like serial killers and things involving celebrities. They rarely reflect what the majority of cases are like. And it’s really disgusting how this show almost tries to justify dahmer’s actions, showing his childhood and events from his perspective. My criminal justice doesn’t just hate THIS series, he hates most media about real serial killers, as it just adds to this idea that they’re more common than they really are
"No, we didn't want to ask the family members about their experiences or how they felt about us making a series about the person that killed their loved ones, because they might explicitly say not to make a show about it" The bar is in hell
So you believe in not talking about history just because it makes certain people uncomfortable? Guess we can't talk about the Holocaust anymore. The real problem with the show is trying to make him sympathetic, and just straight up lying about events to push race stuff.
@@MatthewCJoy Talking about the Holocaust is fine, but when doing so, please refrain from disrespecting the victims, sympathising with the nazis, or thirsting after Heinrich Himmler.
You cannot respect or center a victim if you do not contact their loved ones. You must fully collaborate with the people who knew them in life. Period. It is beyond hubris to claim to depict them respectfully and thoughtfully if you did not know them. They were human beings -- complex, multifaceted human beings with hopes and dreams and challenges and futures, and their story ended the moment they met the person who stripped them of their agency -- when they were no longer the authors of their own lives. That is when their story ends. It is impossible to respect them if what their killer did to them: how he humiliated them, how he destroyed them, and how he mistreated their bodies is described. I try to see the best in others. But I can only think of two explanations -- both awful. The least charitable is that the creators did not contact the families intentionally, because they knew they would not agree or approve, and they feared they may speak out against it before it even aired. The other is more charitable, yet arguable worse: it genuinely did not cross their minds to reach out to the families or others affected. They never saw the victims and their families as anything more than props in a play -- characters to theorize about and discuss and pity. This would reflect how, unfortunately, I think most people who create and consume true crime content see these tragic, real life events. As a spectacle. Not so different from any other fictional media people consume. Unless it has journalistic intent and the full blessing of those who loved the victim, I believe true crime in inherently unethical. Examples of ethical true crime: the podcast Shandee's Story and The Teacher's Pet by investigative journalist Hedley Thomas and published by The Australian, created with the blessing of their families to being public attention to their daughter's cold case and, hopefully, bring her justice. Another is Broken Doors by investigative journalists for the Washington Post which explores what no-knock warrants are, how prevalent they are, how easy they are to obtain, how they are abused, how they result in tragedies, how they have ruined lives, and how the system rarely punishes these abuses. They collaborated with the families of victims and at least one has found some justice since.
Eloquently put. I would add the investigative podcast 'In The Dark' to the list of ethical true crime, being serious investigations and not just murder porn.
I used to watch true crime content. Thought it was interesting and made me somehow understand the fucked up psyche of these people. Thought it was respectful of a documentary or creator if they spent 1 minute talking about the victim before describing what happened to them in detail. Then one day I realised how inherently disrespectful and horrible it is to reduce a person to the worst thing that happened to them and only caring about their victimhood, instead of all the other things that person was or did. How awful it is to see someone as nothing more than a number on a list, just another victim. I think you described it very well and I applaud your writing skills. I hope someone who consumes that sort of content will read your comment and see how messed up it is to watch those videos, shows, or documentaries.
Well said. I always thought the true crime fandom was sus. Then I met my current gf (and also watched Big Joel's vid on the fandom) and realized part of it was women trying to take control of their fear of getting murdered by men, since true crime fans seem to be predominantly women. Then I remembered that a disturbing amount of women are also legit fans of serial killers themselves, going so far as to write them love letters, which make the whole thing look even more sus again.
There is a podcast called “You’re Wrong About” where they talked about True Crime. The guest speaker was a writer who was a victim of a crime. She was randomly stabbed in a park, in broad daylight out of the blue. She is okay now, and did a lot of therapy, which she talked about. Something she mentioned was that the same symptoms of trauma she had after her attack, were the same symptoms that people who watched/listen to true crime about grizzly murders/attacks also had. The paranoia, the distrust with your community, the constant visualization of what incident, lack of sleep, depression, etc. I know I personally experienced that after watching a documentary about Richard Ramirez. That was 2 years ago, and I haven’t engage with true crime (if its like money crimes then I sometimes, but the cold blooded murder I can’t) because it literally freaked the shit out of me and gave me nightmares. On a happier note, at the end of the podcast she said something to the effect of, ‘while it was a person who was my attacker, it was also people who saved me. From apprehending the person, to putting pressure on my wound, calling 911, and staying with me till help came.’
You can develop PTSD from hearing about traumatic events. It's something that like 911 operators or therapists deal with. It's really not good for your mental health to listen to that constantly.
@@breawycker yes exactly! That’s why I took a break from the violent true crime stuff. I don’t really listen to podcasts and watch the documentaries anymore.
@catface960 bestie are you ok that is an incredibly strong reaction to a comment that is debatable at worst edit: also it wasn't even the commenter making that statement, it was someone who had literally been stabbed in a park that made the statement. trying to claim being stabbed "isn't as bad" as your family being dead etc. shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how trauma works, how people process it. everyone processes it differently, and there is no hierarchy of trauma. I do wonder what you've been through to react so strongly to a neutral observation tbh.
The town I grew up in had a serial criminal who only got caught years later. Once caught the news mythologized this criminal so much. Made them sound like an "über intelligence puppet master", a "wolf living among sheep for years" and so on. And that became the narrative in the town community, too. I think, to reassure themselves, THAT THEY HADN'T FAILED (which they had - many accusations weren't followed up on, they even gave that person multiple roles of power despite the known accusations) - instead opting for the "the criminal must have been an insanely skilled totally unfeeling psychopath to trick us all" defense. Which lol. No. They hadn't been. Legacy wise I've met SO MANY people that were smarter, more artistic and radiant. Just not anyone that much of a morally bankrupt failure. That spot this criminal won. Loser.
This is what happened to the Ted Bundy case too. The police was highly irresponsible in their conduct, be it from finding Bundy to keeping him arrested, leaving a dozen woman dead in the wake of their sheer incompetence. I believe the local media was paid off to make Bundy seem greater than he was so the police wouldn't look as bad at their jobs.
I now this might seem ignorant for me to ask, but who is this serial killer just curious (if your uncomfortable telling me, its okay, just don't respond instead)
@@MrE291 Glamorizing again. This isn’t the first time Dahmer was more or less idolized & fangirled over. Happened when he first got caught & happens to damn near every serial killer. If it’s a legit DOCUMENTARY rather than a series then it’s completely different but regardless it’s disgusting
Good lord, the moment I read that I instantly thought of Elliot Rodgers lmao Not endorcing anything or calling Jack that, just the way you described it was funny
This is the first video of his I am watching. I would not say what he is doing here is the same as what you are saying because he goes through different settings, he has other video clips and images, and he actually edits the essay well. 🤷♂️ funny joke though loo
Something similar happened here in Chile, with a show called “42 días en la oscuridad" (42 days in the darkness), based on the real killing of a woman. They NEVER contacted the victim's family or any loved one. And whem the producers were accused of being disrespectful, they shielded themselves in the excuse of “we just wantes to make a series to make aware of gender violence". Awful
thats a lot like all the shitty exploitative movies made about junko furuta's torture/murder :/ they make such a spectacle of things that happened to real people with no regard for their families
@@donk3yb0y I bet those exist just be someone's fetish. Just likethe Dahmer movies exist to feed the thirsty and ravenous hybristophilia fangirls & women.
@@donk3yb0yreminds me of that disgusting ass vile manga based off the Junko Furuta cased and was meant to follow one of her killers and portray him as "less bad"
I remember that case in chile, I remember my mom and I had a fight over the morality she said that the story is already public so it doesnt matter if they make a show or something and I told her thats dehumanizing and wrong (but again I was SAd in my house by one of my family members and she acts as if nothing happend)
my biggest red flag now for any show that's inspired by actual murders, is when the families of the victims come out and say that they didn't know the show was being made until it was announced, or they heard about it from a friend. like it happens so fucking often now with so many shows being made based off real serial killers or real "true crime" cases, and when journalists interview the victims' families afterwards they say, "yeah didn't know this was being made, now i'm retraumatized that's cool." if you're not going to contact the victims' families to bring them on as creative consultants or, fuck, even just send up a warning that they're going to sensationalize the person who brutally murdered someone close to them, maybe they could just...not do what they're doing?? edit: i don’t really care that legally producers don’t have to contact the families. my POINT is, have some fucking empathy? like imagine someone you care about was a victim of a gruesome murder (along with others) and it’s been decades, the trial is over, their killer is dead or in jail for life, but maybe you’re finally starting to heal and not have nightmares about it all the goddamn time. then, out of fucking NOWHERE, you find out people have been reenacting your loved one’s death and are about to make bank over something that was traumatic. the worst parts of your trauma come back, people online are thirsting over the killer, and you’re not even fucking compensated. how fucking awful would that be??? all because some producers didn’t give a shit about you or the person you lost and just wanted to capitalize off of it. i don’t care that it’s legal, i don’t care that the producers aren’t obligated to do anything, it’s sick and cruel.
im certain the families wouldn't want it to exist in the first place. if they ask them if they could make the movie and they say no, they will say they went against their wishes.
Exactly. I think most victims/family of victims wouldn’t consent to these types of shows and movies, especially the victims of Dahmer and serial killers like him because of how their crimes are CONSTANTLY remade into different content. Having one documentary is one thing, maybe one more if newer information comes out. But Dahmer alone has over 13 documentaries and films on him. At this point, we should all know about his crimes and the victims involved, we don’t need more.
@@gaysatan4565 I think this suggests a few other points where it's worth considering making a new piece of media--even if not this show as it currently exists? You're never going to be able to sell the idea to the families if your whole reasoning is "well we wanted to make some money" unless you're offering them life-changing cash up front. The ethics of this would be questionable, but at least they might agree. Or you could let them pick charities for you to donate said buckets of cash to. There are no doubt similar crimes that the public doesn't know about, where whatever past media was produced isn't widely accessible, so they could have picked another topic. This production could have made a serious commitment to using this to sell an argument about police accountability and racism that would save future lives, and they just didn't. They were both cheap AND lazy, and that's unconscionable for this subject matter.
absolutely!!! what do you mean by that buddy? you mean you're quirky and cool or am I supposed to take that as a cry for help??? (from personal experience, the latter assumption is apparently offensive, go figure)
I've watched a lot of serial killer documentaries, including on Dahmer. I haven't tried watching this docudrama series yet. I don't know if I like making series like this, maybe it is like the OJ Simpson docudrama series.
And most ppl tend to gloss over that he was a pedo and a canabal. And targeted men and boys of color. So prob a racist as well. As a survivor of csa, I never watch anything to do with him.
It also demonstrated the double standard, because Dahmer's victims are men, people think it's okay to make a meme out of them. Murder and r@pe is still what it is regardless of who the victims are.
Documentaries about Dahmer disturb me enough to never need to watch fictionalized accounts of it. Add to that this being made by Ryan Murphy who fetishized Richard Ramirez (a murderous rapist) … yeah, no need to waste my time on this shit.
I have seen people say that the women thirsting over Dhamer don't find him "dangerous" because his victims were only men so... This whole situation is just disgusting any way you look at it.
@JohnWall-lj1mx *No he wouldn't,* the main reason why he murdered his victims was because they were attractive to his eyes, and since he wasn't interested in woman at all, not much for him to do with their bodies
It’s also interesting how people wore being unfazed by the show like a badge of honor. It’s something I’ve noticed in online spaces a lot, where if you show any emotion that could be genuine you “lose.” Whether it be blocking someone who makes you angry, to being disgusted by the horrors of the world, empathy and genuine emotions as a whole are not a flaw. As a side note: I love that we got your moms perspective!
If someone told me they were unfazed by a show about a serial killer I'd consider that a serious red flag (unless there are extenuating circumstances).
It’s mainly a circlejerk of privileged teens and young adults to whom this entire situation is nothing more than a tv drama. Even if they recognize the people in the show existed, they don’t actually understand that the people in the show lived, breathed, loved, and then suffered under the cruelty of Dhamer. So to them, they can pretend that liking it and not showing emotion makes them “cool” and “stronger” than other internet people. Its literally just a carnival haunted house in their eyes they can use for clout with other people who see it as a haunted house.
@@michimatsch5862 Yeah, same, unless you give me a good reason I would really wonder why your unfazed. Like, is it your mental state? Are you desensitize? Are you a killer? Are you an edgy teenager who thinks their clever? I also already have a small fear of strangers if you say this my mind is going to assume the worst.
I think thats a huge reason for the popularity of true crime as a genre in general- podcasts, books, shows, TH-cam series. Consuming true crime content helps people feel like they would be prepared if they were in these situations, often at the expense of actual victims out there.
Women are drawn to true crime because, like horror movies, it's a way for us to confront a real life fear in a controlled, safe manner. Misogyny runs rampant when talking about it, but this is the reality
yes. movies. media. shows. art, for that matter, reflects society, or certain parts of it. exploitative is an ugly word, but lets be honest, thats what movies do. they exploit our emotions to get us to feel for something that isn't real. it's the beauty of art, and it's especially effective through film. by the way, i'm not even a fan of the dahmer series, for other reasons, I just had to laugh when i see "X movie SHOULDN'T EXIST". this isn't even an argument on whether the show disrespects its victims. there is definitely an argument there. but to say that something, such as this show, shouldn't exist purely on its morale compass i think is an immature argument. you didn't like the show. that's all it takes.
Dahmer felt bad about it? Did the people he ate give him a tummy ache? Oh, well, then I guess he's not so bad. I mean, he murdered and ate a bunch of people, but at least he felt bad, right?
People need to get it into their heads that their entertainment is far less important than the people who’s lives have been destroyed by murder. I’m embarrassed that people care more about themselves and some netflix show than actually showing some respect to real people. If it happened to your friend or family member, how would you feel? We are sick!!
if it were me id want the story to be told, yes even though the show is innacurate. but it is a show, not a documentary. it is designed to be compelling narrative. imagine complaining like this for schindlers list or someting in the same vein. art should be able to capture the terrible parts of life just as much as the good
I'm not usually anti true crime stuff, I feel pretty neutral toward it, but seeing Dahmer come up when searching halloween on Netflix lowkey pissed me off
@@DavidSartor0 it's about treating someone's brutal murder and the subsequent trauma of the family as nothing more than a festive event. it's comparing real, brutal murder to a christmas movie. there is no honoring the victims in that. there is no larger conversation in that. it's just seasonal entertainment.
@@kiera1017 People already honor victims, and talk about mental health and crime. I'm really not sure what's happening here. I wish I could agree or disagree, but I'm not sure what the problem is in the first place. Who is hurt by this? What does it do? (aside from taking resources away from better productions) I understand it probably hurt victims and their families, but it sounds like you objected to it before you learned that. Is there anything else? Thank you much for responding. I hope I know soon.
Honestly. It’s just kind of sad. Kiddos are getting desensitised to things like that at such a young age. I mean, I’ve seen some things earlier than I probably should’ve (nothing as bad as this) and it really messed me up.
the fact that both ROSS LYNCH and EVAN PETERS were cast as dahmer SHOCKS me. they’re both incredibly attractive and have huge canvases of impressionable young girls. i knew this documentary would be a mistake the second i saw evan peters on set waaaay back when it was announced… insane. i kinda hate ryan for going to evan for this, esp after cult ahs
ngl kinda fucked up that they would accept those roles to begin with. like what is wrong with them that they would say "yes please yum yum" to playing the role of a real life serial killer.
@@DragoonBoom i think people who do that have the impression they’re taking one for the team, social service or something. in the case of evan peters, i know he’s close with ryan murphy and typically his go to so i assume he felt bad refusing? idk but yeah you’re right it’s weird
@@notorious.a.r.i. ??? Pretty sure people say that about literally any acting role ever. And that's the problem. It's very rare that one rejects roles out of principle or reads a script and goes "yo this shit sucks". All about clout and money and people are willing to lie like cowards when things clearly go south like they did here.
@@DragoonBoom it’s money. You wouldn’t turn down an opportunity to be the main character of a Netflix show would you? Not to mention he’s practically finished with quicksilver
@@nagatouzumaki4047 Dracula is BASED of vlad, and is now a horror icon. So it makes sense to dress up as him. JEFFERY IS A REAL KILLER AND NOT BASED ON ONE. There is a very clear difference.
I heard some girls in my Drama class talking about how Dahmer was hot and joking that they’d let him buy them a drink. I was so disgusted that my mind just can’t see them the same way anymore. The Drama class is kind of a family, and that group went from being like siblings to being like distant cousins you hope you don’t have to listen to when they go on rants about their beliefs on holiday get-togethers. Every part of me REALLY hopes they didn’t mean it. That they were just imitating caricatures of the dipshits online who really think that stuff. I’m still hoping.
@@juanbarb57 You'd be AMAZED at how there's a FUCKTON of people who'd wanna be with Dahmer. Hell there's even some that pairs him with Ted Bundy. Its that morally messed up
@@Set2Seth but these ppl are much less than what ppl are making them out to be and as a result so much bullshit moral policing relating to this show has been happening for ppl who aren’t whom ur talking about. The shits annoying
"I was so disgusted I cried and then blogged about it for hours" all of you liberal whiners are so fucking weirdly emotionally attached to this story like you want to be part of it so fucking badly. Get a lifeeeeee Jesus.
Netflixploitation is such a good term to describe this genre of new age exploitation. The way people are now desensitised to horrible things due to internet and meme culture and Netflix just adding to that issue by making shit like Dahmer
This isn’t just a Netflix issue tho as ur statement says. It’s a gen z meme culture lack of reverance due us living in a very postmodern age when it comes to having respect for sed societal norms due to them changing so drastically from the internet and other factors past the 90s for example when the Dahmer case was. Speaks more to our generational inability to take responsibility with and in consuming the content produced serving the purpose to sustain an estimated market of ppl. It’s only a problem due to our collective societal response to this stuff being made. And whilst I don’t think this moral panic around Dahmer is justified at the show itself and it’s existence. This example speaks to Netflix like fox and other media and media adjacent functions of society manipulating our reactionary responses to form their economic monopoly throughout time and memoriam. Whether it’s blaming the video game. South Park. The books. Whatever. It’s almost always our reaction as ppl and wider social problems exasperating it that causes this ecosystem to form with the relationship between content and viewer. All of this to say. It not that simple g
“guys I’m so cool and quirky because I felt zero emotion watching a show about a real serial killer, and I also have a crush on this serial killer, I’m totally not a giant red flag”
@@imretro2182 i don't think they were stating you should assume someone is a killer, just that being unphased by depictions of real crimes shows a worrying lack of empathy
I'm in my mid 50's and my dear childhood friend's babysitter was murdered by Bundy in the area around UC Santa Cruz. I don't understand how people can make money off of these types of shows like Dahmer. If shows like these are going to be made they should be from the victims and the their families perspectives. I don't feel sorry for Bundy, Dahmer, and Manson or anyone who takes innocent lives. Monsters like these should be deified.
Exactly, people use the abuse and mental health card as an excuse for their crimes yet there's plenty of people who've lived through even worse abuse and mental health problems and have never hurt anybody
Haven't watched it and I'm not planing on it. Making a spectacle out of a horrible situation without giving the slightest damn about the families of the victims is despicable.
finally someone with a shred of empathy and sense. It is unbelievable to me that we as a culture have so readily accepted not only the commodification of acts of unspeakable cruelty, but perpetuated that cruelty against LIVING victims/families and friends of victims
maybe just watch episode 6... it wasn't exploitative in the slightest, it was entirely abt Tony Hughes. and it was. _not._ told from Dahmer's point of view. actually, the show didn't portray almost any explicit violence at all.. we 'see' some of the most horrifying scenes through the perspective of his next door neighbor, who's on the other side of the wall. idk why this wasn't a season of American Crime Story, because, like the Versace murder spree, it was was an _American_ crime... it wasn't just abt the spree, it was _also_ abt the failure of the law enforcement. it's an _American_ crime. so the issue is that they didn't reach out, i take it ... make Dahmer different from the Zach Efron Ted Bundy film (which ALSO didn't actually show anything explicit).
One of the weirdest things is that we went through this a few years ago when the Bundy series came out and everybody just seemed to forget about it when Dahmer came out
Lmao right! When people let they attraction to Zac efron let them joke about Bundy’s crimes. I knew this was going to happen when I saw Ryan Murphy and Evan Peters
Lmao right! When people let they attraction to Zac efron let them joke about Bundy’s crimes. I knew this was going to happen when I saw Ryan Murphy and Evan Peters
@@yourbabytee oh god I remember the woobifiaction of serial killers thing a few years back. I hated it. Not even into true crime but some would still leak onto my dash thru others calling them out, blocked multiple people over it.
I think it was SarahZ who mentioned in her video essay about the ethics of true crime something that really resonated with me: One of the main reasons we like to consume true crime content is due to a cognitive bias called the Just-World Hypothesis. Due to this bias we tend to assume that people meet violent, tragic deaths because they did something wrong; they didn't see the signs, they didn't react in a rational way etc. We like to think to ourselves "This would never happen to me because I'm more prepared". In reality, and this is a much harder pill to swallow, bad things can happen to anyone, including people who do everything right.
I think this one of the worst takes on the subject, most people consume it cause it hits that morbid curiosity part of our brain without being too graphic (at least not visually).
i think ppl who are entertained by true crime need to find a new hobby and do some serious self-reflection. being entertained by the pain and suffering and murder of real people is very strange
@kaza12345678 that’s literally studying, not entertainment. Also, these studies, at least now, are done with the consent of (directly or indirectly) involved people.
@kaza12345678 yeah but Sherlock is fiction, True crime is not. What’s the point in it if we can do the same with fiction that doesn’t hurt anybody? Besides, I don’t really think we can compare the medical studying of real corpses to the reasons this genre (and, as a case study, this show) exploded.
This is the best criticism of the "true crime" I've ever heard, and I agree completely. This fictionalization of tragedies is unnecessary and harmful. It blurs the line between entertainment and grave reality. True crime and "awareness" is supposed to be for the sake of justice, of directing attention towards victims and their families who need crowd funding to get cases reopened, or medical bills paid. It's about proving the inadequacy and corruption of institutions.
the part about awareness is disturbing. the fact that people think that people who are "weird" aka: autistic, mentally ill, who have addictions, who have violent intrusive thoughts... are *suspicious* of becoming killers and perpetrating shootings is extremely disturbing to me. paradoxically, i am becoming aware of what people think of people like me and my mother, and that makes me afraid. my only consolation is that existing as i am can be liberating for me, comfort those like me, and potentially change minds. but i cant be Not aware of what's going on. i want to be lucid about this. that's pretty much all i can do, actually.
Disclosure: I have autism. While autistics don't commit as much violence as more normal people, they do commit more serial and mass murders per person. I'm not sure about the other things you said, but they seem likely to be similar. Things like head injuries, or fetal alcohol syndrome, or random mutations, increase both mental illness and rate of violent crime, so they correlate at least a little. At the very least, sociopaths commit more crimes than most.
@@DavidSartor0 what is your point ? Im not pretending that neurodivergent people are incapable of committing crimes. What im talking about is the systematic way people see us. People think of us as needing to be either fixed or erased, because they fear that we might kill them. No one can be guilty of something they didnt do, but according to a bunch of neurotypical people, neurodivergent people are already guilty (Same thing happens for victims of abuse. People think theyre gonna automatically commit abuse in turn when it's not true). And yes, if people have violent tendencies appearing from a mental disorder (it happens) they should be able to get the help they need. If they even can is another question. Mental health professionals have a LOT of prejudice. By the way, if someone is struggling with violence problems, it doesnt mean that they're not helped. They may be seeing psychologists and psychiatrists already, but those arent magical, the problem doesnt dissappear as soon as you see health professionals. Im saying this bc people are always like "get help", but some people Already get help.
@@DavidSartor0 i just learned that a few days ago, in france (where i live), a little girl has been murdered. The main suspect is an algerian immigrant, suspected of having mental disorders. And already people (mainly far right) are coming to the conclusion that all immigrants should be investigated/arrested/or worse. It's only a matter of time before they get also interested in the suspect's mental disorder. if they havent already. Marginalized people are considered suspicious by virtue of the subject of their marginalization. The family of the victim doesnt want this crime to be interpreted by political parties, but the right and far right dont care and are making up campains with the name of the victim, against the family's wishes.
i think what's happening specifically, is that far-right people think that all immigrants are "insane", and that all people deemed "insane" are killers. Marginalization is a very complex process. anyway, i should stop talking about that particular example, it could be insensitive
@@oceanelambert2507 I agree. I was giving reasons for, if someone were suspicious of me for some unchangeable trait, I wouldn't feel offended for it. I didn't communicate this clearly, sorry. Your views now seem mostly agreeable, but they weren't clear from your original comment. I can only see two replies, but TH-cam says there are five.
(open to conversation about this) i saw you alluded to My Friend Dahmer but didn’t really touch on it. totally fair, this video isn’t about that. but in my opinion, i think it does what the defenders of Dahmer wanted/believed the series to do. in terms of fictionalizations of serial killers, i think the film does it right. 1. the victims are not a part of the narrative and not being exploited by the narrative. his first victim is alluded to at the end of the film but the credits roll before things break bad, as it were. 2. it’s based on an actual outside account that the filmmakers had permission to use and adapt. 3. the story really isn’t about dahmer specifically. it uses dahmer as a conduit for a message about, yes, awareness. it’s about kids and teens who are obviously struggling with something and how the adults in their lives ignore it. how many lives could have been saved if someone had paid attention to and tried to help someone who obviously needed it? i think the author of the original My Friend Dahmer graphic novel puts it best. the novel is sympathetic towards dahmer, not for what he became, but for being a struggling, lost teenager. but as backderf (the author) says, “Once Dahmer kills, however, and I can’t stress this enough, my sympathy for him ends.” and the problem with Dahmer (the series) is that it never stops having sympathy, even once the murders begin.
It might be because I'm autistic or something, but I'm not really getting the sympathetic Dahmer angle from watching it, there's nothing it shows that's sufficient to even explain let alone excuse his actions, most of his issues were and are pretty common and still don't produce murderers Watching Dahmer on netflix I do feel far more sympathy being portrayed for his victims and those around him than him himself, and I think people that feel sympathy for him in the show *wanted* to feel sympathy for him before it released, however I do entirely agree with the treatment of the victims in actuality, they should have been contacted and given far, far more respect
Completely disagree. My friend dahmer ends with him basically blaming the adults for what happened when he and his buddies likely knew more than them and did nothing. The whole book is a deflection
all I could think about watching the first few episodes of the show was "my friend Dahmer was relased less than a decade ago, why does this exist". Imo I thought the movie was meh adaptation a flawed but super engaging comic, but the fact it starred a fucking Disney channel actor while being more tasteful than the Netflix series was wild
@@xdearlifex i think deflecting is a strange choice of word, as it sort of implies that his friends in high school are responsible for what ultimately happened, which is a bit ludicrous. they may have paid more attention to what was going on with dahmer, but teenagers have a lot less power with adults, and it is ultimately the responsibility of adults to provide material help to struggling youth. there’s only so much your peers can do. and the landscape of mental health awareness is decidedly different today than it was then. if his friends had brought up their concerns with adults, it may have been brushed off. i think your reading of the situation is very ungenerous.
@@jackalopehayes they could have told an adult what they were seeing but they didnt. That doesnt make them evil, it makes them weak, just like the adults they are criticizing. It's the hypocrisy I find distasteful
The problem with even a documentary on serial killers is that focus is still on the killer. They are given fancy titles. We are stepped through the details of the crimes. The back story on who these killers were and a slant on what made them that way. Never on the toll it had on the victims and the people surrounding the case. The trauma that might permeate through a community.
While I agree that it’s important to focus on the impact of the victims, I do absolutely believe that it’s important us a society to try to understand why serial killers kill, what disorders or mental illnesses they have, and eventually how it could be treated. I don’t think all serial killers or even most could be rehabilitated, but I think it’s wrong to throw our hands up and say “some people are just evil.” Finding out how brains work matters.
@@emilyrainflower25 i think it's misguided to attribute serial killers to mental illness you don't need to be mentally ill to want to kill people, they just have to be dehumanized. why do you think so many serial killers focus on specific marginalized groups? it's the same thing that's exploited to try to get folks in the army to be okay with killing people
This unlocked a core memory of how when I was a kid I was irrationally scared of strangers because we got Reader's Digest magazines that usually featured the true story of someone surviving a home invasion or kidnapping. "awareness" as an end in itself is not always a benefit.
The Investigation (on HBO) is a great example of a true crime drama where the family of the victim was heavily involved in the production ...their dog even played himself in the show. Also, The Investigation focuses the impact on the family and all of the tedious, detailed work that goes into solving a case rather than any depiction of violence or trying to understand a killer (the killer doesn't get any screen time).
I really appreciate hearing something like this exists and I'll be checking it out but "their dog even plays himself in the show" is a hilarious statement
@@lenaduchannes2749 You should care about the families. If you want to know about the life of Dahmer, read about it in an official report. Not some dramaticized serial killer gore. weirdo
As someone who used to see a lot from that """ fandom """ because of how close they are to the horror fandom, I can confirm this is impossible for them
I don't care how they excuse the existence of the true crime genre because one of their favorite true crime YT creator is supposed to be super respectful and letting the family speak. It shouldn't exist at all. They are a double detriment. CSI-effect and the glorification of these crimes. It doesn't matter if the TC creator is subdued, it doesn't matter if a half of the TC fans "just watch if out of fascination and aren't horrible vile disgusting hybristophiles". It still has the shitty effect of glorifying these killers, the gruesome violence itself and not giving the victims and their loved ones rest.
They are not a true crime fandom, they are groupies. I'm part of groups where people are interested in true crime, and they are not this kind of people.
I had this video in the background just listening while going about my day. Then you said the part about the kids who get called school shooters. I had to stop and just listen. I was one of the kids who got called that and it just destroyed me mentally. Every day I was told that I ought to commit suicide or that I was a school shooter. I wore plain, dark clothes and boots. It’s what I owned and they were comfortable. I wore a lot of metal band shirts, so skulls and demonic imagery was there too. I was really quiet and kinda shy and in as early as second, third grade, people were already making those jokes. Followed me into Senior year of High school. I became more extroverted when I found good friends, and that really helped, but it was just brutal. It completely changed who I was and for a while I became a really hostile, bitter and resentful person. It almost ruined my life when I got called down the office one day and I could’ve got in a lot of trouble for something that I never started and wasn’t my fault. To anyone who’s going through something like this, know you’re not alone. It sucks. It sucks so bad. But it gets better. And it could always be worse. You could be the loser who thinks it’s funny to put others down like that. You’re bigger than they are, and things will get better. It just takes time.
It is sad. In the name of “looking out for red flags”, people are ostracizing and bullying the vulnerable, misunderstood, shy outcasts. We need to help them and get them accepted into the fold, so they have friends and a support system. I was relentlessly bullied all of elementary school, and I became that weird kid who others whispered about. I wasn’t labeled a potential school shooter, fortunately, but that’s likely because I’m a woman and also because it wasn’t even a thing in my country in the early 2000s. I think we’ve had just 2 school shootings in Finland so far, and they were huuuge deals and talked about for months. But in any case, there were lots of weird takes after the shootings (including an article about how young men should basically be given girlfriends so they don’t get angry and become violent - that’s some early incel rhetoric, in a big newspaper!). A lot of it focused on mental health and bullying, but it felt like people only became more suspicious, not more kind, afterwards. Now the outcasts weren’t just weird, they were potentially dangerous, which gave the bullies more ammunition. That leads to bitterness, depression and anger, like you said; I went through that phase too, and briefly wanted to enact revenge on my main bully, but I found my empathy and love again, and eventually friends and a community. No one is “owed” friendship, you can’t and shouldn’t just force it (I’ve been in situation where a teacher forced everyone to be “friends with me” and it just lead to constant giggling and whispering and mocking on their part) but everyone deserves a chance and _no one_ deserves bullying. Hope you’re doing well, cheers
yep I was friends with someone who was often called the "school shooter" because they were quiet and autistic. when they were younger their meltdowns were sometimes violent and only later did they learn to reduce the violent ones and cope in better ways. she turned out to be trans, and transitioned in the last year of high school. not exactly a serial killer, an autistic trans woman. also I wore a leather trench coat before it became this years trend and the amount of school shooter jokes I got lol.
That joke directed at shy quiet kids just makes them feel more shy and withdrawn cause feeling like people view you as weird or creepy is upsetting especially if you’re a sensitive and harmless person being called that.
the amount of autistic people bullied to the point of meltdowns that can contain violence is staggering, and also they sometimes understandably just lash out against the bullying they receive for their autistic traits before they even know what autism is. I don't think most people grasp the sheer amount of violence that is heaped upon autistic people at young ages, and especially when most of them have little to no support, just punishment and social shame. and then the people that commit that violence against them have the gall to stigmatize them and anyone else who seems to have similar likely neurodivergent traits for being 'violent' and 'weird' and 'probably gonna be a serial killer'. And all that's not even getting into how this stereotype of the school shooter as a quiet, weird bullied kid getting revenge does not match up with reality most of the time. The kids most likely to commit mass violence like that are the bullies themselves, and kids who are radicalized by the political right wing. But we all know why barely anyone wants to talk about that
i feel bad for John Wayne Gacy's sister, just from that clip. she seems to have had so much faith and love for her brother - and, given what we know of how he protected her and his other siblings from their fathers abuse, im not surprised - but its sad to see her express it, and see such a cute picture of a man who would grow up to be so horrible and monstrous
My sister recommended the show to me and I got about 3 minutes in before I got uncomfortable. She said that it would be told by the perspective of the victims, but I feel like the opening shot in the first few minutes was enough to tell me that it wasn't true... Edit: I appreciate the people who watched the entire thing confirming that it isn't told by the victims' POV
@@c1rcl3s Yup, didn't like how the fact the start of the "victims' story" is literally Jeffery doing what exactly? They couldn't have, I dunno, started the "victims' story" by having one of them be the first faces we see and not Evan Peters. You don't have to be in film school to know that the first shots of any film, movie, tv show establishes the tone of the story. I'm okay with there being a series about Dahmer, but what I'm not okay with is hiding behind the fake notion that it's told from the victims' view and it's clear that many people agree with me even though I only saw 3 minutes of it.
@@c1rcl3s Don't know why you try to gaslight people. Enbeast may not have seen the whole show, but I, and other have, and it's not told from the victim perspective.
I feel like if I wanted to know about Dahmer I would watch a true crime documentary or something, not a drama series that has to take some liberties for its narrative
No consent from the families and no compensation is especially gross. Agree, we don't need to humanize people who were not the victims and brush past the victims who didn't consent to have their stories exploited and liberties taken with them. As someone with a degree in forensic psychology, I also don't like the muddy ethics of true crime podcasting where, suddenly, anyone who can hook a mic up to their computer is now an investigative journalist and licensed psychologist.
Could you tell me a bit more about the issues concerning the ethics of TC podcasts, please? No pressure if you don't want to; I'm just curious as I've personally observed their rise in popularity during the years and how quickly have certain people (especially some of the storytelling channels I used to watch) jumped on this new trend, which made me feel quite uneasy.
@@baseliacaliga Sure, basically a lot of what Jack laid out. Taking on a crime and reporting about it with little to no regard for substantiative, unbiased research, let alone consent from victims to discuss these cases. Just because things are public record doesn't mean people are cool with having probably the worst experience of their lives cherry picked, made into a "sexier" or "more compelling" narrative and then broadcast to the world where it will live forever on the internet. I think fans and creators can get swept up in the drama and forget that these are real events that happened to real people. You can turn off a podcast if it makes you too uncomfortable. These people have to live with it daily.
I do think that depicting killers as inhuman monsters is part of why people refuse to believe their friends and relatives could commit atrocities and end up enabling them. I think it's important to acknowledge someone who could look normal and have emotions and you connect to could be an awful manipulative piece of shit too. I feel like the painting killers as inhuman does s lot of self-congratulating for identifying them and rejecting them while does nothing to allow people to identify harmful people in their own lives, especially loved ones.
@@rubberlover666 and that's exactly the balance. If you make a killer seem human, you always run the risk of people identifying with them and relating to them. It absolutely isn't something you can just shove under the table tthough.
People got really mad when people shared pictures of Hitler interacting with his wife. Their explanation was that he was an awful person and didn't deserve humanity, but I know for a fact many of them too would have NEVER been able to accept one of their loved ones as a murderer or rapist.
I wonder if the victims' families have a legal case against Netflix. Netflix owes them money at least for using their likenesses, but I hope they sue for emotional damages. This was a disgusting move on Netflix' part, and they're being rewarded by all the people tuning in to watch this show and buy merch. They deserve some big time consequences. Hope they're not spending that money too bad - they owe these families a massive debt.
Netflix didn't "use their likenesses", they used actors that looked like them. I also doubt they can sue for emotional damages, on the basis that the story is a matter of public record. I agree that morally Netflix is in the wrong, but legally they did nothing wrong (and they probably have a team of lawyers who would have checked every episode to ensure that was the case).
@@kaspianepps7946 Netflix did use their likeness: they hired actors that looked like them (to the point of renacting/interpreting real life events), used their names, and made them "characters" within their show. Therefore, they have a decent case for suing for their likeness being used without their consent. The same goes for emotional damage since this semi-fictional show uses their trauma without their consent. If it was a pure documentary series, then this would be a different matter. But they sensationalised and dramatised their trauma for profit and without consent. The only thing stopping them is the price of a good lawyer.
@@grandempressvicky6387 they would have no case whatsoever and I'm sure that's why they aren't suing. The court videos they re-shot frame for frame are public record. You can't sue someone because they recreated a scene in court that you were a part of. You need to understand how this works lol. The victims families should have been contacted and respected more, absolutely. But there is no legal case here.
@@alecgreen94 But the main issue is that it's not JUST the court scene. It's whole scenes about their private lives, things that the media WASN'T a witness to nor had privy to. Stuff most likely made up by Netflix that they had given no consent to be made nor were they compensated for a group of people they don't know making a dramatised version of not just their family member's life but THEIR lives too.
i think you just blew my mind and many others laying out so plainly, how obviously wrong it is to make these tv shows. Just reading this could change a lot of minds.
25:52 yup! I was the kid. I’m autistic + physically ill & severely mentally ill, I stay to myself for the most part because of this. when I was younger, in elementary school, I was extremely angry and depressed all the time due to the abuse id been suffering, along with other things. I never hurt anyone, nor myself, but people would harass me saying that I would become a serial killer & similar. People would provoke me to get me angry, and then would call me shit. at the time, I actually had a true crime interest, but the more the harassment went on, the harder it got to watch true crime. everytime I would watch true crime, my harm ocd (caused by the constant harassment) would pick apart every little thing about the perpetrators & would compare it to me. for example, id get an intrusive thought like : the killer lost a father at a young age, just like you, you will become a killer because of this. This fucked me up BAD, I actually cannot watch true crime to this day without atleast getting severely paranoid, on bad days I may have a panic attack. on top of this, I had fallen into a psychotic break in middle school, true crime made me think (and still currently does, despite me not being in an episode anymore), that everyone, including my family, were out to get me in some way. now, I stay to myself, got a few friends but I try to not interact with anyone unless they talk to me first. basically : don’t tell people, especially kids, that they will become an awful person!!!!!!!!!!!
That sounds horrible. I can’t stand the stigma that mentally ill people will grow up to be like that. It’s so incredibly damaging. I have multiple friends (mostly online) who have BPD or DID. They’re absolutely lovely people. I know from them telling me that the media portrayals and that stigma make life harder for them. Most people don’t grow to be anywhere close to a serial killer, yet that’s always associated with conditions like that. I usually don’t reply to comments, but reading this just stuck out to me. As someone who has been bullied in elementary school. Telling kids they’re grow up to be awful is one of the most harmful things a person can say to them. I hope you’re doing alright.
The "awareness" argument always seems completely unhinged to me. Awareness of what? How not to get killed by this guy who is no longer in a position to kill anyone? Doesn't true crime as a genre also raise awareness for serial killers on how to not get caught? That seems like the much more powerful point of awareness. A regular person if they get obsessed with true crime and by sheer bad luck wind up nearly getting targeted but then managing to avoid death with their knowledge isn't necessarily catching the perpetrator, in which case the killer just moves on to a victim who isn't obsessed with the genre. But a serial killer who gets awareness of the pitfalls of prior killers is certain to find that awareness useful. It's an asymmetric issue that I don't think we can put any faith in the idea that outcomes are net positive. Not to mention if you spend a ton of time learning and obsessing over an absurdly unlikely way to die, that leaves you less aware of the actual risks you may be taking in life. We all have limited time and attention, the idea that you can both learn all the ways serial killers operate AND all the things you need to actually live a long, healthy, and as trauma-free as possible life is probably not true. So ultimately I don't buy the awareness angle. While I'm a fan of broad learning I do think there are certain things that a person can absorb, even technically true things, which do more harm than good. And sometimes awareness helps the side you're against more than the side you are on.
'Awareness' seems especially weak in this example. You're warning sex workers that their work is dangerous, doubly so if they're queer or minorities, and the authorities will be incredibly slow to help if they even do? I suspect they're aware.
The only awareness True Crimes brings, at least from the content I consumed, is 1) the police is even more incompetent than we thought 2) serial killers are not the smart geniuses we are lead think we are 3) our flaws as a society is what lets many serial killers get away with it (the ones we have studied at least) Funnily enough very few True Crimes content creators focus on these aspects...
The awareness/ understanding of the monster argument has always been kinda bullshit. I say this as someone who had a whole phase of reading and watching everything I could about murders because I wanted to know what made them do the things they did. And on a more selfish level confirm to me that what my classmates and teachers said about me wasn't true (I was one of those quite goth kids who got called a potential school shooter because I lived in colorado, dressed in all black, and didn't really like that I kept getting bullied for my dyslexia.) What always hit me was how hard it was to find information about the people these monsters killed. I couldn't find things like the things these men loved doing. Who they were outside of the victims of murder. It was something that really started bugging me because so often if you did find something about the victims it was always with qualifiers like "The victim was no saint he had an unpaid parking ticket at the time of his murder so it was totally fine if Dahmer murdered him" Always shifting the blame onto the men who died. Always saying don't look at how systemic failures happened because the cops can't be criticized for doing nothing and letting a pedo murderer go. Don't look at the system that told marginalized people "its your fault that this person died because even though you did everything right you missed the part where we don't care because you aren't white"
raising awareness would be great for how often people sense/experience several flag with someone for multiple ways in which the fishy person behaves that makes their mask fall. And the person who says that the person us fishy is not believed because the person in question is popular, well adjusted and handsome. And as a result awful things happen because people who are creeped out/have bad experiences with white dudes are not taken seriously.
I saw someone defend the show + people making jokes about Dahmer and his victims by saying “people have different ways of coping with trauma” like- nobody who made the show and nobody who watched it and is making jokes about it has trauma from Jeffrey’s crimes to be coped with?? It just felt very odd to me that this person said that. I don’t know exactly how to phrase it but something something about how enmeshment and intrusiveness is becoming so prevalent in how we act online.
Not to be rude but I'm pretty sure they meant that some people would cope better with the story being well known and showed to everyone rather than hidden forever, same as WW2 video games, some soldiers really loved being able to share their tales and make it feel real, while others found it insulting to real war.
@@thechugg4372 no one said what Dahmer did needed to be hidden forever. WW2 and one serial killer are very different things with a different affect. Please point me to any of the victims’ family members who said they want to story to be told and twisted over and over and over without compensating or consulting them. Please show me the people affected who said that because those are the people who need to “cope” from this.
@@thechugg4372 Also both sides of the war point are dumb assholes. Soldiers and war should not be glorified, nor should they invoke sympathy for any but the people murdered for profit.
@@Jane-oz7pp keep this energy with narcos. Oh wait. U forgot about that didn’t u. Even tho it’s got the exact same problem according to u. But u didn’t know about it. Care about it. Until I just mentioned it. Showing that dude above has a point about how selective this is
10:00 that’s fucking vile idk who you are or what you like. The only excuse for this picture existing is if she were training to do forensics and got hype
I remember being a 14 yr old kid, reading the My Friend Dahmer comic in one sitting when i was in freshman year. I became completely engrossed by the story, bc i wanted to know more about this guy that was so scary and weird and an outcast. I related to him bc i was weird and kinda an outcast. I read about the case one evening and then i looked up pictures from the scene. I saw one picture. I dont remember what it was. My mind blocked it out. I remember closing the window, deleting my history and proceding to try not yo vomit. I also remembering wanting to try to "save" dahmer or someone like him. Bring him to the light, make him not feel alone so he wouldnt hurt anyone.Ect. Now, im just digusted.
I think you can only really relate to your own age. So when you are 14 and hear about Dahmer, you can’t set yourself in the shoes of a killer. But you can set yourself in the shoes of a bullied teenager. An outcast. You can empathize and want to save someone evil. Then you grow up and turn into the age Dahmer was when he was doing the shit he did. You can attempt to place yourself in his shoes, and if you are normal you’ll be instantly disgusted. The bullying and broken home isn’t all you focus on anymore.
I think my friend Dahmer is good in that it's not only made by a person who actually knew Dahmer but also that it doesn't go into the murders very much so it doesn't feel so gratuitous.
I love Jordan Peele's Nope SO MUCH because it is entirely about the spectacle and trauma of true crime, all while being fictitious!!! It explores concepts without being exploitative, while being ABOUT EXPLOITATION!! I stopped being into true crime a while ago mostly because of reasons stated in this video essay. I found other media that scratches that itch for me. True crime, and even biopics in general, feel gross. I don't need to know this. I don't want to know this. This story is not mine and it was not written for me. I want filmmakers to tell me stories about the world that feel true without relying on BASED ON A TRUE STORY to sell me that trauma
@@deusexmachina9776 its not sensitive to have empathy for victims of horrific crimes being turned into figure numbers for entertainment, and its NOT cool and edgy to not have feelings about that and being ""unphased"" by terrible stories
@@oldflowers1342 Jacob Geller's video essays on fear are very good, also general horror/suspense movies and procedurals. The Magnus archives is a fantastic fictional horror podcast that feels like true crime. Shows like Hannibal, the Batman franchise, anything with goofy serial killers/criminals. Better call Saul first that bracket too. To replace true crime podcasts I've gotten into movie review podcasts, specifically ones with queer hosts because they reflect my experiences. Honestly it's a personal taste thing, but hopefully these could be a good jumping off place
The big name serial killers, often solved and concluded, don't need awareness, what does need it are cold cased and missing people cases that gets overlooked and forgotten. A show that dedicates one episode to one of those types of cases would be creating a lot more awareness where it could help. I've watched youtube videos covering these and on rare occasion that reach helps find new evidence.
Another issue I have with the "awareness" argument is that this case has been discussed, analysed and fictionalised to hell and back already. The Netflix show says nothing new, nothing of value, does not bring awareness to an important, overlooked topic.
YES, when this was announced I am like "really?...another one?" Awareness to one of the most notorious serial killers in the US? No, it's Netflix capitalizing off a very well known person to kids that have not consumed as much media about him as adults have. The Halloween *costume popularity is just disgusting.
Really? And you're the arbiter of this? Plenty of people had no clue about the extent of his crimes before the series. And the episode of about Tony Hughes adds a whole hell of a lot to the story around Jeffrey Dahmer. It constantly talks about how the system failed to stop Dahmer and how easily all of this could have been avoided.
@@leamJG I would bet money that any top 10 serial killers show, podcast, TH-cam video, book, magazine, videogame, back of the pasta box and toilet paper sheet has talked about Dahmer ad nausea, I'm sorry but there was just no need for this
One of Jeffrey's classmates did a biography/comic about growing up with him but one of the things he stated was his intentions were to never lionize Jeffrey and that no one should see him as a victim to society.
Thanks so much for featuring our music! True crime is a form of entertainment where respect to those involved is tantamount. 15 years ago trash tv shows like CSI and SVU could get away with the dumbest shit because even if it vaguely resembles a real case, it's still not depicting real events and dramatizing real people. Frankly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Netflix is going to learn that controversial true crime means more attention and try to produce another miniseries about Dennis Rader or Gacy, going the same exploitative route by both sympathizing and sexualizing another remorseless and conventionally unattractive literal real-life serial killer that doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.
The music featured from your group is great, good energy. The world always needs more punk! New listener gained and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Cheers guys, keep going for it.
If they are going to do series like this they first need to get permission from victims' families and they should focus on the lives that were taken not on the killer who took those lives. it romanticizes them and just tells people like them that if they do this horrible shit they will be remembered forever while the victims will be forgotten
@@Gos1234567 What, you think Hitler personally killed every single person who died in the holocaust? He caused a genocide. Genocide is not the same as being a serial killer
@@genericname2747 No Hitler no holocaust,you think he is innocent of their deaths?FFS what about Mafia dons that order killings,you think they are innocent?FFS dont be so naive
There was a huge drug and CP bust in my neighbourhood a few years back and it was all organised by one guy (allegedly- I think he just took the fall for it all) but he became known as this 'Sherlock-esque' level of intelligent man who evaded police for so long. It was super upsetting considering people died.
The funny thing is that the show discusses the victim compensation thing with Dahmer’s dad’s book. It felt like they were very self-unaware. His book got cancelled, but this show gets to make millions.
Your mum is wonderful, I really appreciate her perspective here. You're not talking over her or disagreeing or anything, you're digging a little deeper on those surface thoughts and elaborating on them, reaching different conclusions or agreeing from a different angle. Very valuable as I know a lot of people with the kind of "detached from media, not compulsively overthinking things" perspective and I think that's a very important part of the conversation about this sort of stuff.
It's like the True Crime shows have completely desensitised people to the idea of crimes and criminals being, well, *REAL.* Every crime is a tragedy, a failure of our society. *NOT* free entertainment! Why haven't people learned yet that making shows like this only *ENCOURAGES* serial criminals to exist! For the eternal infamy! it's been a known pattern for decades...
I refuse to watch any documentary that puts a spotlight on the serial killer (played by a much more attractive actor of course) because I feel like they would be so thrilled that so many people are intrigued and fascinated with their crimes. People forget those are real people that he killed with friends and families that loved them.
The popularity of True Crime shows began with TV movies in the mid 80s, which was the peak of serial murder in the USA. It has steadily declined since then. Meanwhile school shootings have been on the rise in recent years, but shows about them are very few and far between for obvious reasons.
@@batjackattack5556 As someone who watched the movie with Zac Efron, I can confirm that they did great with the casting. Ted Bundy was 'attractive' yes, but Efron delivered this perfomance that made him look as manipulative and really creepy. Which was on point, wether you're aware of Bundy or not.
My 15 year old niece got into this show and developed an annoying obsession with Dahmer, to the point where she'd bring him up in random conversations and call him Jeff, like "Bro that's some Jeff shit, no cap". Thankfully it's out of her system now
Your conversation with your mom reminded me of one of the very few good memories I have with my dad. He lived basically across the road from a corner store and one time when I was seven, I asked him if I could go alone to it and he said no. When I asked why, he listed five missing kids in the news. It was weird because very regularly he let us go wherever we want and he'd leave us alone for a while in public. Only later did I realise that the conversation was right after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. It's weird thinking about it now because my dad was a bad, irresponsible father, but that one case spooked him enough to take responsibility for his kids even if it was just a few weeks.
Ryan Murphy should have stayed in his lane instead of pretending to b a ‘serious’ filmmaker. I have friends who are AHS fans and even they hate the way he tends to handle stuff like SA scenes
I’m always amazed that we don’t get true crime stories from history that won’t harm anyone living today, people who died 100+ years ago usually have living descendants but not living immediate family. A movie about the Sodder Children or even the Lindbergh baby could be extremely compelling and scary without directly hurting anyone. Great video.
@@jimbogreen7029 it was before the current true crime boom funnily enough, but once people started picking up on more recent and sensationalized serial killers people stopped doing jack the ripper stuff
My father was murdered and if they decided to make a Halloween costume of my dad's killer , I go to take my child trick or treating only to see people dressed like the man I would completely have a nervous breakdown!! Smh
I was very into true crime as a teenager but it really makes you think of people in a very damaging way. I got very paranoid, was always scared on the bus and walking around. Me and my mom did martial arts together and she's always very social and nice to everyone. Once she offered to give a guy in our group a ride home and I just remerber being terrified of being in a car with him, even though he'd never done anything objectionable. He declined and the second he was out of earshot I started asking my mom why she'd do that, we didn't know him, who knows what he might do and so on. It really was a wakeup call, before that I hadn't realised how much the media I consumed was changing my perception of the people around me
I went through a phase in middle school where I watched every cheap serial killer documentary I could find on TH-cam. It came from the same impulse that made me look up shock sites, I was a kid and my developing brain wanted to figure out what The Worst Thing looked like, and I didn’t have the empathic capacity to see the victims and their families as people (the presentation of this content really didn’t help). I absolutely would’ve watched Dahmer if it came out in 2011. I’m still very morbid, but as an adult I’ve learned that empathy and to be discerning in what I support by watching. I look back on those documentaries with a different kind of horror. What a lazy, irresponsible, retraumatizing way to make money. I will never make anything targeted towards the audience I used to be. It’s a hollow facsimile of art and the desire to watch it is a shallowness that I’m so relieved I outgrew on my own.
I can definitely understand true crime as a “fictional” story, an exploration of dark themes and emotions. I was really into a lot of the same stuff in high school during the creepypasta boom. I would look at Reddit 50/50 and things like liveleak and the rest of that shit. But the problem is that despite how sensationalized it is, true crime is not fiction. These are real people, their deaths were real. Young people go for sensationalism, for intensity, and usually it is harmless but when real people are affected that is when a line gets crossed
Thank you so much for this video because some people online are the lowest common denominator when it comes to having common sense. People were chastising the victims family because the family found the whole series retraumatizing. I swear to God I hate people sometimes 😒
I'm somewhat in a grey zone. I do have empathy for the families and victims but also just that fact someone could be traumatized or retraumatized isn't always a reason to prevent something. Maybe sometimes maybe not - context matters. The truth is that the amount of people who experience trauma is quite high and while some people can isolate and prevent themselves from re-exposure or thinking about it, it's also not realistic in a society that you'll never come across those things.
It bothers me that the creators of the show kept going on how they wanted to be respectful of the victims and their families and yet plaster the show everywhere and not compensate any of the victims families any of the massive profits they made off this, also the fact that they glamorised Dahmer like that, they should’ve made it about each victim showing us their story and how their lives were tragically cut short by this monster
the only fictional version of Dahmer's case I've encaged with is Derf Backderf's comic "My Friend Dahmer". It's about the author's life in high-school and how he knew Dahmer personally. I think it's way more interesting because it still is about the author's own experiences. I don't mind someone arguing that it's still rather unethical or at least a complex issue for Derf to tell this story. At least it's about a person's own experiences and not total exploitation. It's a surreal read and a good story.
I think the author also deliberately ended "My Friend Dahmer" (timeline and plot wise) before Dahmer first killed someone. Iirc it was because the author lost any empathy he had for Dahmer retroactively when Dahmer made the choice to kill
I tried to watch the first episode, and just burst out crying. I genuinely felt grief towards the victims, but I knew from the first couple of scenes that the show did not. It scared me and made me incredibly sad, not because of the content, but because it existed.
They not make Dahmer likable if peoples who fall for this are retards .. For me they showed very wel what a monster he really was Just now youtube put up a 2 year old video saying Dear Internet Stop Crushing for Jefrey Dahmer.. Believe me, people were stupid before, and not because of this series.. the impact of this series is negligible ! There are many film who presented by Hitler personal life or Stalin that is not a problem in this case ? Also why Albert Fish got a movie or Chikatilo? Those are still fine? Chikatilo and fish are the most evil serial killers and most twisted to
@@imretro2182 they’re bringing their trauma back by revisiting it, it was purely money motivated profiting off of someone else’s horror story without permission by a racist corporation it’s fair to say that they have no remorse
I learned more and got a greater understanding of Dahmer’s crimes just by reading his Wikipedia page. It was just a dedication to facts without dramatization.
I just can’t stop thinking about what if that were me. What if my brother had been a victim and I was forced to see his death played over and over again for the entertainment of others? I cannot imagine the pain. That’s why I can’t watch this show.
2:14 i'm sorry, i had to pause the video because while i've heard of this show, i didn't know that Ryan "Last Person I Would Trust With A True Crime Show About A Serial Killer" Murphy was involved. my interest in this show just went from 1% to 0%
@@ATthemusician are you really so mad that people are uncomfortable with a “documentary” sympathizing with a serial rapist murderer that you’re going into the comments and being a goddamn crybaby? Go learn some basic fucking empathy
@@ATthemusician fr. Is it like ppls first time on the internet. Again ur allowed to feel a type of way. But seriously. Ur upset at Dahmer memes when memes of the Ukraine war were popping off earlier in the year?
In a way it's obvious and obnoxious that Evan Peters was cast. He has a huge dedicated fanbase. His roles in AHS are always done well, and yet we can also see over there the love people have for the school shooter he played in season 1. This was a deliberate choice. They very well know their audience. It's sick.
Let people play the roles they want. Stop trying to control everyone. You don't know him, he owes you nothing. He's allowed to play that part, if it interests him. Some people are not as sheltered as you.
@@DeepsGnomeWow, you’ve been at this for weeks now. I wonder how far the rabbit hole goes for you when it comes to this show. I can get fixated every now and then, but I’ve never traced weeks worth of comments just to reflexively disagree with all of them the way you have. How confident you must be…
@@cyanmanta but you are at least right about 1 thing, i am confident. Confident that there are a bunch of people on here with a sense of entitlement towards thier belief in ethics around producing shows about historic events...lol
it's just so genuinely sickening, both the existence of dahmer, the existence of serial killer fan culture (which i want to emphasize is different from the true crime fandom), the reality of what happens when there exists a group of people whom no one cares about, and the fact that netflix treated this whole thing the way disney treats their remakes--shallow, heartless cash-grabs with zero empathy for the people who get hurt.
I personally cant understand there being any kind of true crime fandom at all, i know theres probably a fine reason but i cant justify to myself reading about murders as entertainment
@@L0rdOfThePies That's where you're mistaken, true crime isn't a source of entertainment, it's a source of information, on the killer, the killer's psyche, the victims, etc. Taking interest in something doesn't automatically make it "entertainment".
@@shreb6182 ah i do appreciate you trying to give me insight into the reason why people are interested in true crime, its nice to know new things i suppose. but in this case i'd understand it if there wasnt so much fanfare around these things, its treated more like a spectacle than a documentary series. Cast Hollywood's latest sweetheart in a tragically deadly role.. whole fandoms about cases. I dunno but it just strikes the wrong chord with me how its treated
@@L0rdOfThePies oh yeah, that is definitely true. While I am a frequent consumer of true crime and appreciate it's presence, it's very saddening to see that a considerable number of these "documentaries" are nothing more than mere cash grabs that have no concern for the victim's or their family's mental health or consent
@@shreb6182 its presence in the media saddens me for the victim's families, i heard a few years ago that if you search up a few of bundy's many victims the first thing to come up is the actor who played the "character" in some netflix movie. No wiki about the victim and it said "fictional character" next to her name. Imagine seeing that as a family member, someone you loved referred to as a fictional character in a movie staring and fixating on her real abuser/killer. Speaks alot about how these true crime and tragedies are treated
25:33 hit rather close to home for me. I can remember several moments in my life where I have been called a school shooter, which is odd since I live in Canada, where school shootings are rather uncommon. It really has affected me negatively, since I am scared of talking about the scarier symptoms of my mental illness even with my own therapist. I suffer from aggressive, bigoted and violent intrusive thoughts, and I desperately want reassurance and comfort but I'm scared people would think I'm a dangerous person. I also fear that I am, in fact, an awful person and everything everyone has said about me is right.
Here's a reminder that awful people don't worry if they're awful people. Everyone has baggage to unpack! Your scary thoughts are very likely a symptom of anxiety and repression -- a sign that you should seek help to explore your inner landscape safely, not a sign that you're bad or broken. xo
Edit, sorry I misread your message: Hey friend, I am a mental health worker in Canada, and I would really like to encourage you to reach out for help. Intrusive thoughts of harming others do not make you a bad person, if anything they are a sign that you are very worried about hurting others and that's what makes these thoughts sticky. I cannot provide you with a diagnosis but please know that anxiety or OCD with thoughts and fears of harming others is much more common than is often talked about, and there are developed therapeutic strategies for easing these thoughts. Your therapist might ask you some questions initially to make sure you don't have intent to harm anyone, but what you're saying here makes it clear you don't. When you're dealing with intrusive thoughts you need support from other people even though it's scary to reach out. This stuff is very hard or impossible to manage on your own. It's really brave to talk about this stuff, even to strangers online, and I really want to encourage you to keep reaching out. If you are worried about your relationship with your therapist you can also call 211 in most provinces to get connected to a mental health center.
Hello. I’ve had problems like this in the past. When my anxiety was worse. Im pretty sure I had thoughts like that at a frighteningly young age. A lot of undiagnosed mental illness stuff. Actually, the only thing I acted on was thoughts against myself- which ended up spiraling into something absolutely terrible. I know what it’s like to have very bad intrusive thoughts. I want to stress that when I got help with my anxiety, when I got diagnosed with autism and began understanding what that meant, when I started understanding and getting support for my ADHD, the intrusive thoughts got better. I’ve had medications that give me bad thoughts too- ones that made the problems a lot worse. You have to tell the doctor about those, and it can be really hard to do that. I’d suggest you try to get support. Having those thoughts is natural for some people, but it doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. In fact, your revulsion at the idea of those things is a sign that you’re not going to do them. I find that when I’m in a state of sensory overload and extreme anxiety, I have thoughts of trying to “solve” the problem through the most ridiculous of means. Which makes the anxiety worse, which makes the sensory issues worse, which increases those thoughts. The thing I’ve learned to do is prevent the sensory issues in the first place, have a plan ahead of time for when they do happen, and have a way to escape when things get too much. I don’t always do it right, but it’s getting better.
It's the "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" mentality that gives folks the rationalizations to run roughshod over other people and their feelings to do shit like....create a *very* cheesecake story of a serial killer and their victims. The studio knew they were in the wrong, but instead of being actual mature adults, they decided to put that narcissism to good use and make everyone involved their dollhouse toys. Geezus...
"If you grew up in high school in the last decade, you've probably experienced having at least one weird kid who keeps getting called the sсhоol shооtеr" I indeed experienced that weird kid. That weird kid was me lol. Some people actually tried to rob me because they thought I was one.
I also think the awareness angle is particularly stupid in light of the fact that more awareness around serial killers tends to lead to them having more fans, and even imitators. It's the same thing with school shooters. The publicizing and sensationalizing of mass shooters is thought to be a significant factor in inspiring further shootings, and has lead to efforts such as the "Don't Name Them" campaign which aims to follow in the footsteps of similar campaigns initiated to prevent copycat suicides, after media attention was observed as a potential factor in a rise of cases. Extremely tired of this serial killer media trend
I agree with you. I am from other country, and the police used to hide the personal information of serial killers. But many criminologists in my country claims that there should be more awareness to the serial killers, so now the police and the media publicize the murderers. Ever since the police started doing that, many people started to stan murderers and some of them even harassed victims and their family. But I personally believe the sex predators should be disclosed, since they are much more likely to commit the same crime after they are released from the prison, although I believe they deserve life time prison.
Even when they DO go to the victims it's like... A friend of mine was victimized and they consulted my friend when they wanted to reboot the media that was used to victimized them. But the phrasing and communication that was used with my friend was very much encouraging one action over another, in such a way that I was able to tell them that the big corp actually did not care about them. So they could answer whatever they wanted, the reboot would still go on.
It's just beyond hypocritical to see Ryan Murphy critizice people who profit from the Dahmer case and treat him like a fictitional slasher villain after seeing what he did in American Horror Story: Hotel
I don't know if he ever made good things that aren't spectacle, (funny that my teacher used to hate Glee because durr western culture free sex homosexuality but then we learn that it's bad for different reasons like, why is this teacher not fired). I liked Asylum and I don't think it's deliberately good XD
Don't forget AHS Cult which straight up used real life cult leaders as fictional characters. I liked most of AHS before hotel but the first time I heard Ryan Murphy was doing true crime I knew it'd be disrespectful as hell.
I never watched hotel (I was mostly into ahs because of Jessica Lange) and I thought you were talking about how the season was probably made to cash in on the Elisa Lam case, but apparently they had an episode where a bunch of real life serial killers just ate dinner together???
@@fantage20012dude i fucking forgot that that happened. In my teen years i remember being excited to watch this dinner scene. Now at age 22 i can fully say - What the actual fuck is wrong with them for making that shit. Awful, awful.
@@fantage20012 And then you know AHS 1984.....where they literally had a depiction of Richard Ramirez as some sort of hot babe badass that people would be into, which some people were legitimately turned on by him. Ryan Murphy is really sketchy to me mid key.
honestly this has been a gnawing feeling for a long time. a year or two ago a close friend of mine showed me one of her bday presents: a serial killer coloring book. i wonder now how long this has really been building.
5:35 Yes! I also felt like the actor who played Konerak looked at least 17, I was shocked when I looked up the actual person and saw that he looked so much more child-like in real life. Definitely seemed like the show was trying to make his murder look less horrifying than it actually was 😬
not that it excuses it, I think its an awful nasty decision, but I think its about not showing graphic violence against kids. Kind of an American view of media to shy away from that. Even if it ends up shining a better light on a literal child killer 😮💨
Honestly a show that calls out the ethics of true crime shows is honestly American Vandal. It's a comedic show and taking a piss out of it, but it's the only one that directly calls into question the ethics of the film makers and the consequences of airing everyone's personal lives out to a public viewing audience.
A particular thing I remember was when I first felt uncomfortable and offended even by fiction was the Jack the Ripper DLC for Assassin's Creed Syndicate. Specifically, when the Ripper's victims were not only left unnamed they were recast as secret ninjas. Somehow that felt like the most callous and dehumanizing thing I'd ever encountered in a game. My favorite fiction about a serial killer (and crime/murder fiction in general) is Alan Moore's comic From Hell, which is about the Jack the Ripper murders. When you open the collected edition the first thing you read (after the inside flap summary) is a dedication and expression of sympathy for the Canonical Five victims of the Ripper and a statement that while we may never know who the murderer really was, we know that these women were real people. The comic itself uses multiple perspective characters, switching between the victims, the killer, and the police investigating the murders. A great deal of emphasis is placed in both the story itself and Moore's annotations to the lives of the victims and the very real deprivations and injustices they suffered at the hands of an uncaring society (and indicts that society today has only grown more cold and alienated). The victims aren't just props, best exemplified by that they are not secret ninjas. Or as Moore puts it in his annotations: "These women were neither the sultry, wanton beauties that they are depicted as being in the more exploitational Ripper movies, nor the disfigured and toothless hags that some writers have described them as. They were ordinary women, who, despite their deprived and unhealthy situation, were trying to look attractive for the only job that society had seen fit to offer them." Also eyyyy The Day Today and the WAR!
AC shouldn’t be your historical go-to for accuracy. They use characters from real historical events and mood them so they fit the overarching plot of AC. Big to mention the victims are not readily known.
God wasnt there a ripper movie about how Jack was a protector of humanity and the ladies were secretly aliens taking the form of women. That was stupid. Secret ninja level of bad.
Jack, As a man who has been wearing aviators for years now, I feel you on the "these glasses make me look like Dahmer" problem but like you, I am also not going to stop wearing them because I like them and I didn't do it cuz of this stupid show. I absolutely adore your relationship with your mom, reminds me of my own. I think you should have a video where your mom exclusively narrates, she seems insightful and it would be adorable. Sorry this comment is 8 months late and you will probably never read it lol. Keep up the good work.
"Making money off people's misery is an industry." -Mike Stoklasa of RedLetterMedia i think this quote just perfectly summarizes the whole idea of true crime or entertainment in general
I hate how they try to paint Jeffrey in a "regretful" light. He was a known manipulator, like wtf who cares what he said he's actively trying to warp your perception of him.
your comment about the Dahmer sketch on snl was really on the nose FYI. I went to the dress rehearsal taping for snl last week and they had a whole sketch about Dahmer that got cut. I've never seen a sketch bomb so badly. Glad they figured out it was a bad idea, even if Netflix didn't.
Yes I'm doing a video essay again, No it wasn't on purpose, Yes I asked my mum to help, Yes she completely upstaged me
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your mom is awesome, she should just take over your channel imo
I wasn't aware this was a Jack Saint video until the end because your mum was just such a force of personality in this video. I also now see why you're such a force of personality yourself. Great video, mate 🖤🏳️🌈
Momma Saint is so nice to let you guest star on her channel!
Seriously, team Momma Saint, she makes content better
Accidental video essay alert
What do you mean by "it made the police look better" when you said it is odd they hired an actor in their 20's to play the role of a 14 year old victim?
A Dahmer Halloween Costume advertising “30% of profits go to victim’s families” doesn’t make my skin crawl any less
Reminder that this video is also monetised with 0 profits going to anyone but himself.
@@link1565V2 Reminder that Netflix is a billion dollar company and this guy is just a small youtuber.
@@link1565V2 Your point?
@@thehale_ he's a hypocrite
@@cay924 what’s your point? You’re not very smart. Try stay out of conversations you can’t understand because of your mental disability.
I feel like for this show, as well as the actual case, anyone pushing the idea that Jeffrey Dahmer didn't affect the black community (in the way they say it's pushing a "black lives matter" rhetoric/narrative) fails to understand how small the black gay community would've been during the late 1970s/1980s. no matter who Jeffrey Dahmer killed, it affected more people than we'd like to admit. those families lost their sons who were already a target by being both black and gay, and that was such a small margin of the Milwaukee population that every single murder was monumental. there is no narrative to push, it just is that way.
Thank you. Many folks in Milwaukee that were aware during that time (this generations 20 yr olds parents and so on) esp black people don’t like this show!! My mother lived and walked past Dahmers apartment building taking my brother to daycare daily at the time. Once she found out she didn’t leave her apartment for anything but work for years. There was absolutely no reason to make this show other than black trauma is the new trendy genre
yeah it was pretty baffling to hear that that was a common criticism of the show. I feel like true crime fans of all people should know that its not uncommon for killers to target people who's deaths wouldn't be cared about as much, often this was prostitutes but a lot of times it can be gay, trans, black etc people. I wonder if a lot of true crime fans only care about the psychology of individual killers and how it made them do what they did, and not so much the community they were in and how it led them to do what they did
This is why I appreciated the show. It showed a part of the dahmer story I literally knew nothing about and tried it back into problems we're still hearing about and facing today.
Imagine someone going missing and the police aren’t doing enough, that would destroy a community
@@seangallagher9435 you mean like in Kansas City right now with 7 missing black women?
The victims names should be more recognized than the killers
Unfortunately one name is easier to remember than like twenty
I think the sad reality is that people find serial killers and their deeds fascinating, so they are the ones that people are interested in. The story of a victim is that an ordinary person was brutally killed at random. The story of a serial killer feels special and novel in a gruesome way. The viewer thinks about what caused them to do these things and how they did them, and there is a morbid fascination there. Also, in the story of a victim, they have little to no agency because that was taken away from them. The killer's story is entirely based on their own agency, and people tend to prefer stories where the focus has agency. Sadly, it's a lot of different things that make it so that the monsters who deserve the least attention get the most of it.
I agree with you completely. And I find it, well, really fucking annoying and disheartening when people excuse the work of honoring and remembering victims of a violent crime with "well, that's just how the world is." You know we can change things right? We have the full capacity and knowledge to spread the names of the 17 people that dahmer killed and bring meaning back to the lives they lost. You can just say you don't give a shit about people's lives and indulge in sensationalism.
That's why I like Disturban; his true crime videos always have the victim's name instead of the killer's.
Why exactly? The people who were victims didn't do anything interesting, or of note. Dahmer did something horrible and rare, and so is historically interesting to people. People want to understand rare events in history, and Dahmer will be part of that, whether you like it or not. Your obviously sheltered and can't deal with reality. Continue to shelter yourself if you want, but stop demanding others shelter themselves from reality... People can learn about anyone they want. If you're interested in the victims more, go make your own show about it.
They made this show all about Dahmer's life, with the murders being presented as the peak of his 'miserable existence' and the thing is-
We shouldn't care about Dahmer's life. He's not some broken protagonist. He was the reason so many innocent people of colour lost their lives in brutal, inhumane ways and we should focus on them instead.
It's always 'Jeffrey Dahmer and his victims' and never 'The lives that should have been'.
He wasn't the protagonist of his life but the villain of other people's lives. That's how he should have been portrayed.
@@zoeb3573 This. Well said.
Did you watch the show or just the first episode be honest .
@@Thechickinaaronscar I watched the first three episodes. It made me sick to my stomach, how there was such an intense focus on Dahmer's backstory and, quite frankly, I couldn't give less of a fuck about his childhood or his family. The victims' stories were an afterthought in comparison to the reasoning behind Dahmer's murders and it doesn't matter if there is more emphasis on them as the show goes on. The central theme has been set. The fucking title of the show is his name. I don't need to watch it in its entirety to understand that Netflix's intention was to make money off of psychoanalyzing a murderer and disrespecting the victims and their families in the process.
Fuck this show.
@@Thechickinaaronscar did you?
"He is almost regretful", that's pretty bold statement for the actor? because last I checked the reason Dahmer himself was murdered in prison was because he would constantly taunt people with cannibalism.
@@Nirroir If true, that kinda makes his statement worse both as an actor trying to portray a real person and defending someone whose defining pop culture traits for almost 30 years are killer/cannabal.
that bastard and ryan murphy wanted to make dahmer some sympathetic serial killer. FUCK OFF
Dahmer taunted his inmates so that they would kill him. He wanted to die. His lawyers suggested he stay in protective custody but he told them to move him to the general prison population because whatever happened to him there he deserved it.
I mean in the interviews that Dahmer spoke in. He did fully cooperate with the police and denied nothing once he was caught. He also sounded kind of relieved that they stopped him as he himself believed he would have never stopped. That is "almost" regretful as it gets. Especially when you compare him to other serial killers.
The reason he was killed in Prison. Is because of the taunting. But also because he was annoying people with his disrespect first and foremost.
@@Nirroir Do research before commenting on it. He did tons of research
Also, can we point out how hypocritical it is, that they had this segment about the memorial for the victims, and yet they don't even bother contacting the victims themselves
For the people who dont know what a victim is: the family members are also victims of jeffreys murders 😐 many people suffered from his actions
It's almost like they want to appear good and get the benefits without actually having to compromise like good people would.
@@KoreaMojo oh that is definitely the case. It's sad, if i haven't watched this video i wouldn't have know about this double standart. Netflix is pretty good at things staying hush and manipulation.. (i dont use many other socials like twitter where the victoms spoke out) besides cuties (🤮) they don't get the backlash they deserve
also pointing out how they never received proper justice or reparations, while also making record-breaking profits and giving absolutely none of it to those people they pretended to care about
FFS so if you make a movie about WW2 you should contact all the families of victims beforehand?This is history and it shouldnt be censored,better to remember
@@Gos1234567 how did you miss the point of this entire video so bad
They didn't even portray his victims accurately as YOUNG men and BOYS. They don't draw enough attention to the child aspect of things at all.
They do? Also dahmer also killed a 32 year old guy you know lmao
@@thechugg4372 no they don't. They aged up most of them.
@@jorami4838 yeah well no shit, you expected them to use actual children?
@@xI-MIKE-Ix Well I mean, ain't this the same company who distributed Cuties?
@@xI-MIKE-Ix child actors exist. This is the same company that made Stranger Things.
I'm a criminal justice major, and when someone in my class asked our professor how he feels about this series, he said he absolutely hated it.
Your Professor is to sensitive.. They not make Dahmer likable if peoples who fall for this are retards .. For me they showed very wel how a monster he really was
Just now youtube put up a 2 year old video saying Dear Internet Stop Crushing for Jefrey Dahmer.. Believe me, people were stupid before, and not because of this series.. the impact of this series is negligible !
But in this case why they make film about Albert Fish many year ago who is the most evil child eater cannibal ?? Albert fish film not hated?
@@queenkurumi8504 it wasn’t just about this series, he went off about the romanticization of serial killers like dahmer, and how this series is just adding to it. In criminal justice there’s things called “celebrated cases” which include things like serial killers and things involving celebrities. They rarely reflect what the majority of cases are like. And it’s really disgusting how this show almost tries to justify dahmer’s actions, showing his childhood and events from his perspective. My criminal justice doesn’t just hate THIS series, he hates most media about real serial killers, as it just adds to this idea that they’re more common than they really are
Just soft stop crying
@@calvinmay4673 so if some dude kidnaps your relative and murders dismemberes and eats/ r*pes their corpse you won't cry?
@@waav2235 1. It wouldn’t happen. 2. No I wouldn’t cry bc they are dead. 3. Crying over a dead body is stupid & shows how soft you are .
"No, we didn't want to ask the family members about their experiences or how they felt about us making a series about the person that killed their loved ones, because they might explicitly say not to make a show about it" The bar is in hell
the bar was pretty much a tripping hazard in hell and they’re here, caught in 4k, limbo dancing with the devil.
So you believe in not talking about history just because it makes certain people uncomfortable? Guess we can't talk about the Holocaust anymore. The real problem with the show is trying to make him sympathetic, and just straight up lying about events to push race stuff.
@@H4mSamWich Reddit comeback: detected, nerd status: confirmed
@@MatthewCJoy Talking about the Holocaust is fine, but when doing so, please refrain from disrespecting the victims, sympathising with the nazis, or thirsting after Heinrich Himmler.
@@adamejcpa good analogy. there a clear difference between most “true crime” documentaries and Dahmer.
You cannot respect or center a victim if you do not contact their loved ones. You must fully collaborate with the people who knew them in life. Period. It is beyond hubris to claim to depict them respectfully and thoughtfully if you did not know them. They were human beings -- complex, multifaceted human beings with hopes and dreams and challenges and futures, and their story ended the moment they met the person who stripped them of their agency -- when they were no longer the authors of their own lives. That is when their story ends. It is impossible to respect them if what their killer did to them: how he humiliated them, how he destroyed them, and how he mistreated their bodies is described.
I try to see the best in others. But I can only think of two explanations -- both awful. The least charitable is that the creators did not contact the families intentionally, because they knew they would not agree or approve, and they feared they may speak out against it before it even aired. The other is more charitable, yet arguable worse: it genuinely did not cross their minds to reach out to the families or others affected. They never saw the victims and their families as anything more than props in a play -- characters to theorize about and discuss and pity. This would reflect how, unfortunately, I think most people who create and consume true crime content see these tragic, real life events. As a spectacle. Not so different from any other fictional media people consume.
Unless it has journalistic intent and the full blessing of those who loved the victim, I believe true crime in inherently unethical. Examples of ethical true crime: the podcast Shandee's Story and The Teacher's Pet by investigative journalist Hedley Thomas and published by The Australian, created with the blessing of their families to being public attention to their daughter's cold case and, hopefully, bring her justice. Another is Broken Doors by investigative journalists for the Washington Post which explores what no-knock warrants are, how prevalent they are, how easy they are to obtain, how they are abused, how they result in tragedies, how they have ruined lives, and how the system rarely punishes these abuses. They collaborated with the families of victims and at least one has found some justice since.
Goddamn you’re a great writer. I genuinely hope you write professionally. Thank you for this comment
Thank you so much for putting into words exactly what I can’t stand about true crime content. Excellent comment.
Eloquently put. I would add the investigative podcast 'In The Dark' to the list of ethical true crime, being serious investigations and not just murder porn.
I used to watch true crime content. Thought it was interesting and made me somehow understand the fucked up psyche of these people.
Thought it was respectful of a documentary or creator if they spent 1 minute talking about the victim before describing what happened to them in detail.
Then one day I realised how inherently disrespectful and horrible it is to reduce a person to the worst thing that happened to them and only caring about their victimhood, instead of all the other things that person was or did. How awful it is to see someone as nothing more than a number on a list, just another victim.
I think you described it very well and I applaud your writing skills. I hope someone who consumes that sort of content will read your comment and see how messed up it is to watch those videos, shows, or documentaries.
Well said. I always thought the true crime fandom was sus. Then I met my current gf (and also watched Big Joel's vid on the fandom) and realized part of it was women trying to take control of their fear of getting murdered by men, since true crime fans seem to be predominantly women. Then I remembered that a disturbing amount of women are also legit fans of serial killers themselves, going so far as to write them love letters, which make the whole thing look even more sus again.
There is a podcast called “You’re Wrong About” where they talked about True Crime. The guest speaker was a writer who was a victim of a crime. She was randomly stabbed in a park, in broad daylight out of the blue. She is okay now, and did a lot of therapy, which she talked about.
Something she mentioned was that the same symptoms of trauma she had after her attack, were the same symptoms that people who watched/listen to true crime about grizzly murders/attacks also had. The paranoia, the distrust with your community, the constant visualization of what incident, lack of sleep, depression, etc. I know I personally experienced that after watching a documentary about Richard Ramirez. That was 2 years ago, and I haven’t engage with true crime (if its like money crimes then I sometimes, but the cold blooded murder I can’t) because it literally freaked the shit out of me and gave me nightmares.
On a happier note, at the end of the podcast she said something to the effect of, ‘while it was a person who was my attacker, it was also people who saved me. From apprehending the person, to putting pressure on my wound, calling 911, and staying with me till help came.’
You can develop PTSD from hearing about traumatic events. It's something that like 911 operators or therapists deal with. It's really not good for your mental health to listen to that constantly.
I love you’re wrong about omg
@@breawycker yes exactly! That’s why I took a break from the violent true crime stuff. I don’t really listen to podcasts and watch the documentaries anymore.
@@yukisqu1d840 right? I love that podcast. Between that and Maintenance Phase, those are my go to’s
@catface960 bestie are you ok that is an incredibly strong reaction to a comment that is debatable at worst
edit: also it wasn't even the commenter making that statement, it was someone who had literally been stabbed in a park that made the statement. trying to claim being stabbed "isn't as bad" as your family being dead etc. shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how trauma works, how people process it. everyone processes it differently, and there is no hierarchy of trauma. I do wonder what you've been through to react so strongly to a neutral observation tbh.
“I didn’t ask because I was afraid you would say no” is a child’s excuse. Why is a grown adult man, the leader of Netflix using it?
Probably just forget he's supposed to lie.
The town I grew up in had a serial criminal who only got caught years later. Once caught the news mythologized this criminal so much. Made them sound like an "über intelligence puppet master", a "wolf living among sheep for years" and so on. And that became the narrative in the town community, too. I think, to reassure themselves, THAT THEY HADN'T FAILED (which they had - many accusations weren't followed up on, they even gave that person multiple roles of power despite the known accusations) - instead opting for the "the criminal must have been an insanely skilled totally unfeeling psychopath to trick us all" defense. Which lol. No. They hadn't been. Legacy wise I've met SO MANY people that were smarter, more artistic and radiant. Just not anyone that much of a morally bankrupt failure. That spot this criminal won. Loser.
This is what happened to the Ted Bundy case too. The police was highly irresponsible in their conduct, be it from finding Bundy to keeping him arrested, leaving a dozen woman dead in the wake of their sheer incompetence. I believe the local media was paid off to make Bundy seem greater than he was so the police wouldn't look as bad at their jobs.
Serial killers only get away with killing people because the cops involved are more stupid than they are.
I now this might seem ignorant for me to ask, but who is this serial killer just curious (if your uncomfortable telling me, its okay, just don't respond instead)
Sources?
god, we need to insult serial killers more often
I’ve even seen on Twitter a mother make her OWN child dress up as him for Halloween. It was disgusting asf..
that's unreal
that's crazy wow, see again, glamourizing the monster
@@soulvessel9040 honestly I wish I was bullshitting.
@@MrE291 Glamorizing again. This isn’t the first time Dahmer was more or less idolized & fangirled over. Happened when he first got caught & happens to damn near every serial killer. If it’s a legit DOCUMENTARY rather than a series then it’s completely different but regardless it’s disgusting
Its disgusting what people are doing, this guy was a monster
Jack really is redefining the "white guy does political ranting in his car" genre for the better
Good lord, the moment I read that I instantly thought of Elliot Rodgers lmao
Not endorcing anything or calling Jack that, just the way you described it was funny
@@LeclaireLune Elliot Rodger is Asian
elliot roger moment
This is the first video of his I am watching. I would not say what he is doing here is the same as what you are saying because he goes through different settings, he has other video clips and images, and he actually edits the essay well. 🤷♂️ funny joke though loo
@@thoracis was referring to what the OP of how the OP described it
Something similar happened here in Chile, with a show called “42 días en la oscuridad" (42 days in the darkness), based on the real killing of a woman. They NEVER contacted the victim's family or any loved one. And whem the producers were accused of being disrespectful, they shielded themselves in the excuse of “we just wantes to make a series to make aware of gender violence". Awful
thats a lot like all the shitty exploitative movies made about junko furuta's torture/murder :/ they make such a spectacle of things that happened to real people with no regard for their families
@@donk3yb0y I bet those exist just be someone's fetish. Just likethe Dahmer movies exist to feed the thirsty and ravenous hybristophilia fangirls & women.
@@donk3yb0yreminds me of that disgusting ass vile manga based off the Junko Furuta cased and was meant to follow one of her killers and portray him as "less bad"
I remember that case in chile, I remember my mom and I had a fight over the morality she said that the story is already public so it doesnt matter if they make a show or something and I told her thats dehumanizing and wrong (but again I was SAd in my house by one of my family members and she acts as if nothing happend)
my biggest red flag now for any show that's inspired by actual murders, is when the families of the victims come out and say that they didn't know the show was being made until it was announced, or they heard about it from a friend. like it happens so fucking often now with so many shows being made based off real serial killers or real "true crime" cases, and when journalists interview the victims' families afterwards they say, "yeah didn't know this was being made, now i'm retraumatized that's cool." if you're not going to contact the victims' families to bring them on as creative consultants or, fuck, even just send up a warning that they're going to sensationalize the person who brutally murdered someone close to them, maybe they could just...not do what they're doing??
edit: i don’t really care that legally producers don’t have to contact the families. my POINT is, have some fucking empathy? like imagine someone you care about was a victim of a gruesome murder (along with others) and it’s been decades, the trial is over, their killer is dead or in jail for life, but maybe you’re finally starting to heal and not have nightmares about it all the goddamn time. then, out of fucking NOWHERE, you find out people have been reenacting your loved one’s death and are about to make bank over something that was traumatic. the worst parts of your trauma come back, people online are thirsting over the killer, and you’re not even fucking compensated. how fucking awful would that be??? all because some producers didn’t give a shit about you or the person you lost and just wanted to capitalize off of it. i don’t care that it’s legal, i don’t care that the producers aren’t obligated to do anything, it’s sick and cruel.
im certain the families wouldn't want it to exist in the first place. if they ask them if they could make the movie and they say no, they will say they went against their wishes.
Then don't make a flashy show about it????
@@georgehernandez2156 that's the point
Exactly. I think most victims/family of victims wouldn’t consent to these types of shows and movies, especially the victims of Dahmer and serial killers like him because of how their crimes are CONSTANTLY remade into different content.
Having one documentary is one thing, maybe one more if newer information comes out. But Dahmer alone has over 13 documentaries and films on him. At this point, we should all know about his crimes and the victims involved, we don’t need more.
@@gaysatan4565 I think this suggests a few other points where it's worth considering making a new piece of media--even if not this show as it currently exists? You're never going to be able to sell the idea to the families if your whole reasoning is "well we wanted to make some money" unless you're offering them life-changing cash up front. The ethics of this would be questionable, but at least they might agree. Or you could let them pick charities for you to donate said buckets of cash to. There are no doubt similar crimes that the public doesn't know about, where whatever past media was produced isn't widely accessible, so they could have picked another topic. This production could have made a serious commitment to using this to sell an argument about police accountability and racism that would save future lives, and they just didn't.
They were both cheap AND lazy, and that's unconscionable for this subject matter.
I work at a Halloween store. The amount of customers who ask me to help them with their Jeffrey Dahmer costume is truly astounding.
It's the children's ones that really make me 🤮🤮
Are you allowed to say no?? Because that's such a weird thing to dress up as. He wasn't just a cannibal and murderer and r@pist. But also a p3d0phile
@@YellowFreesias CHILDREN ONE'S?!?!?!
I am disgusted. I am horrified, I have no other words. (Not with you ofc)
I honestly told my parents that if I saw someone dressed as that monster for Halloween, I’ll punch that person
I avoid anyone who brags they’re unfazed by this series
absolutely!!! what do you mean by that buddy? you mean you're quirky and cool or am I supposed to take that as a cry for help??? (from personal experience, the latter assumption is apparently offensive, go figure)
I've watched a lot of serial killer documentaries, including on Dahmer. I haven't tried watching this docudrama series yet.
I don't know if I like making series like this, maybe it is like the OJ Simpson docudrama series.
And most ppl tend to gloss over that he was a pedo and a canabal. And targeted men and boys of color. So prob a racist as well. As a survivor of csa, I never watch anything to do with him.
It also demonstrated the double standard, because Dahmer's victims are men, people think it's okay to make a meme out of them. Murder and r@pe is still what it is regardless of who the victims are.
Documentaries about Dahmer disturb me enough to never need to watch fictionalized accounts of it. Add to that this being made by Ryan Murphy who fetishized Richard Ramirez (a murderous rapist) … yeah, no need to waste my time on this shit.
I have seen people say that the women thirsting over Dhamer don't find him "dangerous" because his victims were only men so... This whole situation is just disgusting any way you look at it.
EW that’s horrible
Holy shit that's gross. What the fuck.
@JohnWall-lj1mx Necrophiliacs only kill people they are attracted to
@JohnWall-lj1mxexactly. I find it appalling how women could even romantasize about this man! Disgusting. They need to be called out!
@JohnWall-lj1mx *No he wouldn't,* the main reason why he murdered his victims was because they were attractive to his eyes, and since he wasn't interested in woman at all, not much for him to do with their bodies
It’s also interesting how people wore being unfazed by the show like a badge of honor. It’s something I’ve noticed in online spaces a lot, where if you show any emotion that could be genuine you “lose.”
Whether it be blocking someone who makes you angry, to being disgusted by the horrors of the world, empathy and genuine emotions as a whole are not a flaw.
As a side note: I love that we got your moms perspective!
If someone told me they were unfazed by a show about a serial killer I'd consider that a serious red flag (unless there are extenuating circumstances).
Most of those are just edgy teens and young adults who try to be cool.
It’s mainly a circlejerk of privileged teens and young adults to whom this entire situation is nothing more than a tv drama. Even if they recognize the people in the show existed, they don’t actually understand that the people in the show lived, breathed, loved, and then suffered under the cruelty of Dhamer. So to them, they can pretend that liking it and not showing emotion makes them “cool” and “stronger” than other internet people. Its literally just a carnival haunted house in their eyes they can use for clout with other people who see it as a haunted house.
@@michimatsch5862 Yeah, same, unless you give me a good reason I would really wonder why your unfazed. Like, is it your mental state? Are you desensitize? Are you a killer? Are you an edgy teenager who thinks their clever? I also already have a small fear of strangers if you say this my mind is going to assume the worst.
@@testedcatgaming7714 it is because those people have seen worse
really like this take on how these shows are explotive of people's fears of being victims of violent crime.
I think thats a huge reason for the popularity of true crime as a genre in general- podcasts, books, shows, TH-cam series. Consuming true crime content helps people feel like they would be prepared if they were in these situations, often at the expense of actual victims out there.
Why?
Women are drawn to true crime because, like horror movies, it's a way for us to confront a real life fear in a controlled, safe manner. Misogyny runs rampant when talking about it, but this is the reality
@Joey Dove me? Certainly, as a woman.
yes. movies. media. shows. art, for that matter, reflects society, or certain parts of it. exploitative is an ugly word, but lets be honest, thats what movies do. they exploit our emotions to get us to feel for something that isn't real. it's the beauty of art, and it's especially effective through film.
by the way, i'm not even a fan of the dahmer series, for other reasons, I just had to laugh when i see "X movie SHOULDN'T EXIST". this isn't even an argument on whether the show disrespects its victims. there is definitely an argument there. but to say that something, such as this show, shouldn't exist purely on its morale compass i think is an immature argument.
you didn't like the show. that's all it takes.
Dahmer felt bad about it? Did the people he ate give him a tummy ache? Oh, well, then I guess he's not so bad. I mean, he murdered and ate a bunch of people, but at least he felt bad, right?
He didn’t feel bad. He just said what he thought people wanted to hear
don't forget he fiddled with other people's bodies, dead or alive
but it's okay because he's sorry about it!!!
@@t4squared He repented was baptized and is in heaven
If you think the message of the show was "Dahmer felt bad so he should be forgiven" you are actually 62 iq
@@ATthemusician did you even watch the fucking video
People need to get it into their heads that their entertainment is far less important than the people who’s lives have been destroyed by murder. I’m embarrassed that people care more about themselves and some netflix show than actually showing some respect to real people. If it happened to your friend or family member, how would you feel? We are sick!!
right? it irritates me so much to see people say “if you don’t like it, don’t watch!” when the fact that it exists *at all* is the disrespectful part
I cannot agree more!
there is zero empathy or compassion from those douchebags. it's crazy
if it were me id want the story to be told, yes even though the show is innacurate. but it is a show, not a documentary. it is designed to be compelling narrative. imagine complaining like this for schindlers list or someting in the same vein. art should be able to capture the terrible parts of life just as much as the good
@@animatedmonkey5882 i hear what you are saying. But if it were me, I’d prefer a factually accurate documentary. No reenactments of the murder.
I'm not usually anti true crime stuff, I feel pretty neutral toward it, but seeing Dahmer come up when searching halloween on Netflix lowkey pissed me off
Why?
@@DavidSartor0 Boiling real life horrific murders down to "ooh that's spooky! Perfect to get me in the mood for halloween!!" Is pretty insensitive
@@chezmix64 I don't understand at all. I'm sorry.
@@DavidSartor0 it's about treating someone's brutal murder and the subsequent trauma of the family as nothing more than a festive event. it's comparing real, brutal murder to a christmas movie. there is no honoring the victims in that. there is no larger conversation in that. it's just seasonal entertainment.
@@kiera1017 People already honor victims, and talk about mental health and crime. I'm really not sure what's happening here. I wish I could agree or disagree, but I'm not sure what the problem is in the first place.
Who is hurt by this? What does it do? (aside from taking resources away from better productions)
I understand it probably hurt victims and their families, but it sounds like you objected to it before you learned that. Is there anything else?
Thank you much for responding. I hope I know soon.
As a teacher, let me just tell you how upsetting it is to hear casual dahmer-related jokes coming from 12 year olds
Jfc horrifying
Honestly. It’s just kind of sad. Kiddos are getting desensitised to things like that at such a young age. I mean, I’ve seen some things earlier than I probably should’ve (nothing as bad as this) and it really messed me up.
Didn’t kids make jokes about the challenger tragedy the day after it happened? Mankind has always had a sick fascination with the deranged.
@@drippnjimmy1033
tragedy + time = comedy
I'd bet there were people who made jokes about the titanic a week after it sank
@@SinisterBlitzo9yeah but dahmer was what in the 80s?? Ppl getting offended for the sake of it
the fact that both ROSS LYNCH and EVAN PETERS were cast as dahmer SHOCKS me. they’re both incredibly attractive and have huge canvases of impressionable young girls. i knew this documentary would be a mistake the second i saw evan peters on set waaaay back when it was announced… insane. i kinda hate ryan for going to evan for this, esp after cult ahs
ngl kinda fucked up that they would accept those roles to begin with. like what is wrong with them that they would say "yes please yum yum" to playing the role of a real life serial killer.
@@DragoonBoom i think people who do that have the impression they’re taking one for the team, social service or something. in the case of evan peters, i know he’s close with ryan murphy and typically his go to so i assume he felt bad refusing? idk but yeah you’re right it’s weird
@@DragoonBoom bye what... that's an opportunity of a lifetime
@@notorious.a.r.i. ??? Pretty sure people say that about literally any acting role ever. And that's the problem. It's very rare that one rejects roles out of principle or reads a script and goes "yo this shit sucks".
All about clout and money and people are willing to lie like cowards when things clearly go south like they did here.
@@DragoonBoom it’s money. You wouldn’t turn down an opportunity to be the main character of a Netflix show would you? Not to mention he’s practically finished with quicksilver
Imagine being the victims family, taking one of the kids out on Halloween, and every other person is dressed like the man who mutilated your loved one
You are well within your right to [redacted]* the living shit out of them.
*beat
So dressing up as dracula is bad and shouldt be done
Cause it meant offend ottoman who were killed by vlad?
Its scary, thats for sure
@@nagatouzumaki4047 Dracula is BASED of vlad, and is now a horror icon. So it makes sense to dress up as him.
JEFFERY IS A REAL KILLER AND NOT BASED ON ONE.
There is a very clear difference.
Ok so you cant dress as jack the ripper
Or just vlad tepes himself?
Because they are real killers??
I heard some girls in my Drama class talking about how Dahmer was hot and joking that they’d let him buy them a drink. I was so disgusted that my mind just can’t see them the same way anymore. The Drama class is kind of a family, and that group went from being like siblings to being like distant cousins you hope you don’t have to listen to when they go on rants about their beliefs on holiday get-togethers.
Every part of me REALLY hopes they didn’t mean it. That they were just imitating caricatures of the dipshits online who really think that stuff. I’m still hoping.
They were talking about a hot actor, not the actual sicko he was portraying, stop overreacting.
@@juanbarb57 You'd be AMAZED at how there's a FUCKTON of people who'd wanna be with Dahmer.
Hell there's even some that pairs him with Ted Bundy. Its that morally messed up
@@Set2Seth but these ppl are much less than what ppl are making them out to be and as a result so much bullshit moral policing relating to this show has been happening for ppl who aren’t whom ur talking about. The shits annoying
"I was so disgusted I cried and then blogged about it for hours" all of you liberal whiners are so fucking weirdly emotionally attached to this story like you want to be part of it so fucking badly. Get a lifeeeeee Jesus.
Cry
Netflixploitation is such a good term to describe this genre of new age exploitation. The way people are now desensitised to horrible things due to internet and meme culture and Netflix just adding to that issue by making shit like Dahmer
If you thing exploitation is something new, you need a century of cinema to catch up...
except exploitation cinema is really cool and fun and this isn't
Same stuff they had on Fox and A&E every week in the 90s..
The idea of exploiting such content isn't new but Netflix's use of it can be more dangerous due to its global scope. It's still shit, regardless.
This isn’t just a Netflix issue tho as ur statement says. It’s a gen z meme culture lack of reverance due us living in a very postmodern age when it comes to having respect for sed societal norms due to them changing so drastically from the internet and other factors past the 90s for example when the Dahmer case was. Speaks more to our generational inability to take responsibility with and in consuming the content produced serving the purpose to sustain an estimated market of ppl. It’s only a problem due to our collective societal response to this stuff being made. And whilst I don’t think this moral panic around Dahmer is justified at the show itself and it’s existence. This example speaks to Netflix like fox and other media and media adjacent functions of society manipulating our reactionary responses to form their economic monopoly throughout time and memoriam. Whether it’s blaming the video game. South Park. The books. Whatever. It’s almost always our reaction as ppl and wider social problems exasperating it that causes this ecosystem to form with the relationship between content and viewer.
All of this to say. It not that simple g
“guys I’m so cool and quirky because I felt zero emotion watching a show about a real serial killer, and I also have a crush on this serial killer, I’m totally not a giant red flag”
It just boils down to tolerance. I’m not gonna assume someone is a killer because they aren’t phased by a serial killer show.
@@imretro2182 i don't think they were stating you should assume someone is a killer, just that being unphased by depictions of real crimes shows a worrying lack of empathy
@@potatopotayto8332 bad take
@@pentagon5022 don't see how you can watch the whole video and think this is a bad take but go off i guess
@@potatopotayto8332 dude rlly just said the video is a bad take💀💀
I'm in my mid 50's and my dear childhood friend's babysitter was murdered by Bundy in the area around UC Santa Cruz. I don't understand how people can make money off of these types of shows like Dahmer. If shows like these are going to be made they should be from the victims and the their families perspectives. I don't feel sorry for Bundy, Dahmer, and Manson or anyone who takes innocent lives. Monsters like these should be deified.
Exactly, people use the abuse and mental health card as an excuse for their crimes yet there's plenty of people who've lived through even worse abuse and mental health problems and have never hurt anybody
I absolutely agree, and my deepest condolences for your loss.
because these are interesting stories that need to be told
Manson never did anything.
Haven't watched it and I'm not planing on it. Making a spectacle out of a horrible situation without giving the slightest damn about the families of the victims is despicable.
I avoid true crime for that in general. The victims are only ever props to these people
finally someone with a shred of empathy and sense. It is unbelievable to me that we as a culture have so readily accepted not only the commodification of acts of unspeakable cruelty, but perpetuated that cruelty against LIVING victims/families and friends of victims
maybe just watch episode 6... it wasn't exploitative in the slightest, it was entirely abt Tony Hughes. and it was. _not._ told from Dahmer's point of view.
actually, the show didn't portray almost any explicit violence at all.. we 'see' some of the most horrifying scenes through the perspective of his next door neighbor, who's on the other side of the wall.
idk why this wasn't a season of American Crime Story, because, like the Versace murder spree, it was was an _American_ crime... it wasn't just abt the spree, it was _also_ abt the failure of the law enforcement. it's an _American_ crime.
so the issue is that they didn't reach out, i take it ... make Dahmer different from the Zach Efron Ted Bundy film (which ALSO didn't actually show anything explicit).
@@mckymcobvious3043 there was only very small violence. like the gacy scene
I watched and i am definetly getting a pair of Dahmer glasses,theyre pretty cool.
One of the weirdest things is that we went through this a few years ago when the Bundy series came out and everybody just seemed to forget about it when Dahmer came out
Lmao right! When people let they attraction to Zac efron let them joke about Bundy’s crimes. I knew this was going to happen when I saw Ryan Murphy and Evan Peters
Lmao right! When people let they attraction to Zac efron let them joke about Bundy’s crimes. I knew this was going to happen when I saw Ryan Murphy and Evan Peters
Oh they remembered the controversy. They remembered it made them a lot of money.
Plus some songs mentioned about Dahmer (released years ago) and now people canceling the artist 💀 ISTG people are so dumb and slow.
@@yourbabytee oh god I remember the woobifiaction of serial killers thing a few years back. I hated it. Not even into true crime but some would still leak onto my dash thru others calling them out, blocked multiple people over it.
I think it was SarahZ who mentioned in her video essay about the ethics of true crime something that really resonated with me: One of the main reasons we like to consume true crime content is due to a cognitive bias called the Just-World Hypothesis. Due to this bias we tend to assume that people meet violent, tragic deaths because they did something wrong; they didn't see the signs, they didn't react in a rational way etc. We like to think to ourselves "This would never happen to me because I'm more prepared". In reality, and this is a much harder pill to swallow, bad things can happen to anyone, including people who do everything right.
I think this one of the worst takes on the subject, most people consume it cause it hits that morbid curiosity part of our brain without being too graphic (at least not visually).
No shit. Bad things happen all the time. Like me having to see this post. A tragedy
i think ppl who are entertained by true crime need to find a new hobby and do some serious self-reflection. being entertained by the pain and suffering and murder of real people is very strange
@kaza12345678 that’s literally studying, not entertainment. Also, these studies, at least now, are done with the consent of (directly or indirectly) involved people.
@kaza12345678 yeah but Sherlock is fiction, True crime is not. What’s the point in it if we can do the same with fiction that doesn’t hurt anybody? Besides, I don’t really think we can compare the medical studying of real corpses to the reasons this genre (and, as a case study, this show) exploded.
This is the best criticism of the "true crime" I've ever heard, and I agree completely. This fictionalization of tragedies is unnecessary and harmful. It blurs the line between entertainment and grave reality. True crime and "awareness" is supposed to be for the sake of justice, of directing attention towards victims and their families who need crowd funding to get cases reopened, or medical bills paid. It's about proving the inadequacy and corruption of institutions.
the part about awareness is disturbing. the fact that people think that people who are "weird" aka: autistic, mentally ill, who have addictions, who have violent intrusive thoughts... are *suspicious* of becoming killers and perpetrating shootings is extremely disturbing to me. paradoxically, i am becoming aware of what people think of people like me and my mother, and that makes me afraid. my only consolation is that existing as i am can be liberating for me, comfort those like me, and potentially change minds. but i cant be Not aware of what's going on.
i want to be lucid about this. that's pretty much all i can do, actually.
Disclosure: I have autism.
While autistics don't commit as much violence as more normal people, they do commit more serial and mass murders per person. I'm not sure about the other things you said, but they seem likely to be similar.
Things like head injuries, or fetal alcohol syndrome, or random mutations, increase both mental illness and rate of violent crime, so they correlate at least a little.
At the very least, sociopaths commit more crimes than most.
@@DavidSartor0 what is your point ? Im not pretending that neurodivergent people are incapable of committing crimes. What im talking about is the systematic way people see us. People think of us as needing to be either fixed or erased, because they fear that we might kill them. No one can be guilty of something they didnt do, but according to a bunch of neurotypical people, neurodivergent people are already guilty (Same thing happens for victims of abuse. People think theyre gonna automatically commit abuse in turn when it's not true).
And yes, if people have violent tendencies appearing from a mental disorder (it happens) they should be able to get the help they need. If they even can is another question. Mental health professionals have a LOT of prejudice.
By the way, if someone is struggling with violence problems, it doesnt mean that they're not helped. They may be seeing psychologists and psychiatrists already, but those arent magical, the problem doesnt dissappear as soon as you see health professionals. Im saying this bc people are always like "get help", but some people Already get help.
@@DavidSartor0 i just learned that a few days ago, in france (where i live), a little girl has been murdered. The main suspect is an algerian immigrant, suspected of having mental disorders. And already people (mainly far right) are coming to the conclusion that all immigrants should be investigated/arrested/or worse. It's only a matter of time before they get also interested in the suspect's mental disorder. if they havent already.
Marginalized people are considered suspicious by virtue of the subject of their marginalization.
The family of the victim doesnt want this crime to be interpreted by political parties, but the right and far right dont care and are making up campains with the name of the victim, against the family's wishes.
i think what's happening specifically, is that far-right people think that all immigrants are "insane", and that all people deemed "insane" are killers. Marginalization is a very complex process.
anyway, i should stop talking about that particular example, it could be insensitive
@@oceanelambert2507 I agree.
I was giving reasons for, if someone were suspicious of me for some unchangeable trait, I wouldn't feel offended for it.
I didn't communicate this clearly, sorry.
Your views now seem mostly agreeable, but they weren't clear from your original comment.
I can only see two replies, but TH-cam says there are five.
(open to conversation about this)
i saw you alluded to My Friend Dahmer but didn’t really touch on it. totally fair, this video isn’t about that. but in my opinion, i think it does what the defenders of Dahmer wanted/believed the series to do. in terms of fictionalizations of serial killers, i think the film does it right. 1. the victims are not a part of the narrative and not being exploited by the narrative. his first victim is alluded to at the end of the film but the credits roll before things break bad, as it were. 2. it’s based on an actual outside account that the filmmakers had permission to use and adapt. 3. the story really isn’t about dahmer specifically. it uses dahmer as a conduit for a message about, yes, awareness. it’s about kids and teens who are obviously struggling with something and how the adults in their lives ignore it. how many lives could have been saved if someone had paid attention to and tried to help someone who obviously needed it?
i think the author of the original My Friend Dahmer graphic novel puts it best. the novel is sympathetic towards dahmer, not for what he became, but for being a struggling, lost teenager. but as backderf (the author) says, “Once Dahmer kills, however, and I can’t stress this enough, my sympathy for him ends.” and the problem with Dahmer (the series) is that it never stops having sympathy, even once the murders begin.
It might be because I'm autistic or something, but I'm not really getting the sympathetic Dahmer angle from watching it, there's nothing it shows that's sufficient to even explain let alone excuse his actions, most of his issues were and are pretty common and still don't produce murderers
Watching Dahmer on netflix I do feel far more sympathy being portrayed for his victims and those around him than him himself, and I think people that feel sympathy for him in the show *wanted* to feel sympathy for him before it released, however I do entirely agree with the treatment of the victims in actuality, they should have been contacted and given far, far more respect
Completely disagree. My friend dahmer ends with him basically blaming the adults for what happened when he and his buddies likely knew more than them and did nothing. The whole book is a deflection
all I could think about watching the first few episodes of the show was "my friend Dahmer was relased less than a decade ago, why does this exist". Imo I thought the movie was meh adaptation a flawed but super engaging comic, but the fact it starred a fucking Disney channel actor while being more tasteful than the Netflix series was wild
@@xdearlifex i think deflecting is a strange choice of word, as it sort of implies that his friends in high school are responsible for what ultimately happened, which is a bit ludicrous. they may have paid more attention to what was going on with dahmer, but teenagers have a lot less power with adults, and it is ultimately the responsibility of adults to provide material help to struggling youth. there’s only so much your peers can do. and the landscape of mental health awareness is decidedly different today than it was then. if his friends had brought up their concerns with adults, it may have been brushed off. i think your reading of the situation is very ungenerous.
@@jackalopehayes they could have told an adult what they were seeing but they didnt. That doesnt make them evil, it makes them weak, just like the adults they are criticizing. It's the hypocrisy I find distasteful
The problem with even a documentary on serial killers is that focus is still on the killer. They are given fancy titles. We are stepped through the details of the crimes. The back story on who these killers were and a slant on what made them that way. Never on the toll it had on the victims and the people surrounding the case. The trauma that might permeate through a community.
While I agree that it’s important to focus on the impact of the victims, I do absolutely believe that it’s important us a society to try to understand why serial killers kill, what disorders or mental illnesses they have, and eventually how it could be treated. I don’t think all serial killers or even most could be rehabilitated, but I think it’s wrong to throw our hands up and say “some people are just evil.” Finding out how brains work matters.
I mean after watching it it does focus a lot on the trauma of the community, if that's your thing.
Did you even watch the show?
@@emilyrainflower25 i think it's misguided to attribute serial killers to mental illness
you don't need to be mentally ill to want to kill people, they just have to be dehumanized. why do you think so many serial killers focus on specific marginalized groups?
it's the same thing that's exploited to try to get folks in the army to be okay with killing people
this show did portray the killer and victims story equally
This unlocked a core memory of how when I was a kid I was irrationally scared of strangers because we got Reader's Digest magazines that usually featured the true story of someone surviving a home invasion or kidnapping. "awareness" as an end in itself is not always a benefit.
Says you
The Investigation (on HBO) is a great example of a true crime drama where the family of the victim was heavily involved in the production ...their dog even played himself in the show. Also, The Investigation focuses the impact on the family and all of the tedious, detailed work that goes into solving a case rather than any depiction of violence or trying to understand a killer (the killer doesn't get any screen time).
I really appreciate hearing something like this exists and I'll be checking it out but "their dog even plays himself in the show" is a hilarious statement
yeah i feel like if you ever were to do a show about a serial killer, they need to be an offscreen force, not a character at all
@CaiominTwin With a real serial killer, I agree. A fictional one I don't think it matters
Who cares about the families, I want to know the life of the killer or the show is just boring
@@lenaduchannes2749 You should care about the families. If you want to know about the life of Dahmer, read about it in an official report. Not some dramaticized serial killer gore. weirdo
True crime ""fandom"" stop thirsting over and excusing actual monsters challenge: Literally impossible.
As someone who used to see a lot from that """ fandom """ because of how close they are to the horror fandom, I can confirm this is impossible for them
I don't care how they excuse the existence of the true crime genre because one of their favorite true crime YT creator is supposed to be super respectful and letting the family speak. It shouldn't exist at all. They are a double detriment. CSI-effect and the glorification of these crimes. It doesn't matter if the TC creator is subdued, it doesn't matter if a half of the TC fans "just watch if out of fascination and aren't horrible vile disgusting hybristophiles".
It still has the shitty effect of glorifying these killers, the gruesome violence itself and not giving the victims and their loved ones rest.
um I like true crime but I don't condone this kind of behaviour,it's uh-oh stinky in my opinion.
They are not a true crime fandom, they are groupies. I'm part of groups where people are interested in true crime, and they are not this kind of people.
This show was red meat for serial killer fangirls pretending that it wasn't red meat for serial killer fangirls.
It is what is is🍍
I had this video in the background just listening while going about my day. Then you said the part about the kids who get called school shooters. I had to stop and just listen. I was one of the kids who got called that and it just destroyed me mentally. Every day I was told that I ought to commit suicide or that I was a school shooter. I wore plain, dark clothes and boots. It’s what I owned and they were comfortable. I wore a lot of metal band shirts, so skulls and demonic imagery was there too. I was really quiet and kinda shy and in as early as second, third grade, people were already making those jokes. Followed me into Senior year of High school. I became more extroverted when I found good friends, and that really helped, but it was just brutal. It completely changed who I was and for a while I became a really hostile, bitter and resentful person. It almost ruined my life when I got called down the office one day and I could’ve got in a lot of trouble for something that I never started and wasn’t my fault. To anyone who’s going through something like this, know you’re not alone. It sucks. It sucks so bad. But it gets better. And it could always be worse. You could be the loser who thinks it’s funny to put others down like that. You’re bigger than they are, and things will get better. It just takes time.
bro im so sorry to hear that, but awesome that it got better
@@hhrq._.q Thank you, man. I hope that nobody else has to go through something like that
same thing happened to me. it still baffles me that I was the one who got in trouble for the jokes that OTHER people were making.
@@seeeds4702 I’m sorry that happened to you too. The same thing happened to me, I was the only one to get in any trouble. Public schools suck
It is sad. In the name of “looking out for red flags”, people are ostracizing and bullying the vulnerable, misunderstood, shy outcasts. We need to help them and get them accepted into the fold, so they have friends and a support system. I was relentlessly bullied all of elementary school, and I became that weird kid who others whispered about. I wasn’t labeled a potential school shooter, fortunately, but that’s likely because I’m a woman and also because it wasn’t even a thing in my country in the early 2000s. I think we’ve had just 2 school shootings in Finland so far, and they were huuuge deals and talked about for months. But in any case, there were lots of weird takes after the shootings (including an article about how young men should basically be given girlfriends so they don’t get angry and become violent - that’s some early incel rhetoric, in a big newspaper!). A lot of it focused on mental health and bullying, but it felt like people only became more suspicious, not more kind, afterwards. Now the outcasts weren’t just weird, they were potentially dangerous, which gave the bullies more ammunition. That leads to bitterness, depression and anger, like you said; I went through that phase too, and briefly wanted to enact revenge on my main bully, but I found my empathy and love again, and eventually friends and a community. No one is “owed” friendship, you can’t and shouldn’t just force it (I’ve been in situation where a teacher forced everyone to be “friends with me” and it just lead to constant giggling and whispering and mocking on their part) but everyone deserves a chance and _no one_ deserves bullying.
Hope you’re doing well, cheers
yep I was friends with someone who was often called the "school shooter" because they were quiet and autistic. when they were younger their meltdowns were sometimes violent and only later did they learn to reduce the violent ones and cope in better ways. she turned out to be trans, and transitioned in the last year of high school. not exactly a serial killer, an autistic trans woman.
also I wore a leather trench coat before it became this years trend and the amount of school shooter jokes I got lol.
I know someone who got called a school shooter too, also just autistic quiet and trans
That joke directed at shy quiet kids just makes them feel more shy and withdrawn cause feeling like people view you as weird or creepy is upsetting especially if you’re a sensitive and harmless person being called that.
Still waiting for someone to give a shit about how quiet/shy people are stigmatized and discriminated against
Reminds me of prom. Had a lot of funs. But then people went to me like "so hapoy you're having fun we were all scared you would arrive with a gun"
the amount of autistic people bullied to the point of meltdowns that can contain violence is staggering, and also they sometimes understandably just lash out against the bullying they receive for their autistic traits before they even know what autism is. I don't think most people grasp the sheer amount of violence that is heaped upon autistic people at young ages, and especially when most of them have little to no support, just punishment and social shame. and then the people that commit that violence against them have the gall to stigmatize them and anyone else who seems to have similar likely neurodivergent traits for being 'violent' and 'weird' and 'probably gonna be a serial killer'. And all that's not even getting into how this stereotype of the school shooter as a quiet, weird bullied kid getting revenge does not match up with reality most of the time. The kids most likely to commit mass violence like that are the bullies themselves, and kids who are radicalized by the political right wing. But we all know why barely anyone wants to talk about that
i feel bad for John Wayne Gacy's sister, just from that clip. she seems to have had so much faith and love for her brother - and, given what we know of how he protected her and his other siblings from their fathers abuse, im not surprised - but its sad to see her express it, and see such a cute picture of a man who would grow up to be so horrible and monstrous
My sister recommended the show to me and I got about 3 minutes in before I got uncomfortable. She said that it would be told by the perspective of the victims, but I feel like the opening shot in the first few minutes was enough to tell me that it wasn't true...
Edit: I appreciate the people who watched the entire thing confirming that it isn't told by the victims' POV
Except it IS true. But how would you know? You watched three minutes
@@c1rcl3s Yup, didn't like how the fact the start of the "victims' story" is literally Jeffery doing what exactly? They couldn't have, I dunno, started the "victims' story" by having one of them be the first faces we see and not Evan Peters. You don't have to be in film school to know that the first shots of any film, movie, tv show establishes the tone of the story.
I'm okay with there being a series about Dahmer, but what I'm not okay with is hiding behind the fake notion that it's told from the victims' view and it's clear that many people agree with me even though I only saw 3 minutes of it.
@@enbeast8350 you watched three minutes of it lol
@@c1rcl3s I watched it all. It wasn't told from the victims' perspective.
@@c1rcl3s Don't know why you try to gaslight people. Enbeast may not have seen the whole show, but I, and other have, and it's not told from the victim perspective.
I feel like if I wanted to know about Dahmer I would watch a true crime documentary or something, not a drama series that has to take some liberties for its narrative
Yup.
Exactly
No consent from the families and no compensation is especially gross. Agree, we don't need to humanize people who were not the victims and brush past the victims who didn't consent to have their stories exploited and liberties taken with them. As someone with a degree in forensic psychology, I also don't like the muddy ethics of true crime podcasting where, suddenly, anyone who can hook a mic up to their computer is now an investigative journalist and licensed psychologist.
Could you tell me a bit more about the issues concerning the ethics of TC podcasts, please? No pressure if you don't want to; I'm just curious as I've personally observed their rise in popularity during the years and how quickly have certain people (especially some of the storytelling channels I used to watch) jumped on this new trend, which made me feel quite uneasy.
@@baseliacaliga Sure, basically a lot of what Jack laid out. Taking on a crime and reporting about it with little to no regard for substantiative, unbiased research, let alone consent from victims to discuss these cases. Just because things are public record doesn't mean people are cool with having probably the worst experience of their lives cherry picked, made into a "sexier" or "more compelling" narrative and then broadcast to the world where it will live forever on the internet. I think fans and creators can get swept up in the drama and forget that these are real events that happened to real people. You can turn off a podcast if it makes you too uncomfortable. These people have to live with it daily.
I do think that depicting killers as inhuman monsters is part of why people refuse to believe their friends and relatives could commit atrocities and end up enabling them. I think it's important to acknowledge someone who could look normal and have emotions and you connect to could be an awful manipulative piece of shit too. I feel like the painting killers as inhuman does s lot of self-congratulating for identifying them and rejecting them while does nothing to allow people to identify harmful people in their own lives, especially loved ones.
@@rubberlover666 and that's exactly the balance. If you make a killer seem human, you always run the risk of people identifying with them and relating to them. It absolutely isn't something you can just shove under the table tthough.
People got really mad when people shared pictures of Hitler interacting with his wife. Their explanation was that he was an awful person and didn't deserve humanity, but I know for a fact many of them too would have NEVER been able to accept one of their loved ones as a murderer or rapist.
I wonder if the victims' families have a legal case against Netflix. Netflix owes them money at least for using their likenesses, but I hope they sue for emotional damages. This was a disgusting move on Netflix' part, and they're being rewarded by all the people tuning in to watch this show and buy merch. They deserve some big time consequences. Hope they're not spending that money too bad - they owe these families a massive debt.
I wonder if the victim's families have a legal case against netflix.
They do not
Netflix didn't "use their likenesses", they used actors that looked like them. I also doubt they can sue for emotional damages, on the basis that the story is a matter of public record. I agree that morally Netflix is in the wrong, but legally they did nothing wrong (and they probably have a team of lawyers who would have checked every episode to ensure that was the case).
@@kaspianepps7946 Netflix did use their likeness: they hired actors that looked like them (to the point of renacting/interpreting real life events), used their names, and made them "characters" within their show. Therefore, they have a decent case for suing for their likeness being used without their consent. The same goes for emotional damage since this semi-fictional show uses their trauma without their consent. If it was a pure documentary series, then this would be a different matter. But they sensationalised and dramatised their trauma for profit and without consent. The only thing stopping them is the price of a good lawyer.
@@grandempressvicky6387 they would have no case whatsoever and I'm sure that's why they aren't suing. The court videos they re-shot frame for frame are public record. You can't sue someone because they recreated a scene in court that you were a part of. You need to understand how this works lol. The victims families should have been contacted and respected more, absolutely. But there is no legal case here.
@@alecgreen94 But the main issue is that it's not JUST the court scene. It's whole scenes about their private lives, things that the media WASN'T a witness to nor had privy to. Stuff most likely made up by Netflix that they had given no consent to be made nor were they compensated for a group of people they don't know making a dramatised version of not just their family member's life but THEIR lives too.
Might as well make a "taseful" biopic of someone like Hitler. That'll go over super well.
Netflix would totally frame it like getting rejected from art school made him do genocide lmao
Have you noticed your username spells "weird" incorrectly?
If it's intentional, that's fine, I think spelling "weird" weirdly is funny.
@@DavidSartor0 haha thats the idea
Executive Producer: Nick Fuentes
i think you just blew my mind and many others laying out so plainly, how obviously wrong it is to make these tv shows. Just reading this could change a lot of minds.
25:52 yup! I was the kid. I’m autistic + physically ill & severely mentally ill, I stay to myself for the most part because of this. when I was younger, in elementary school, I was extremely angry and depressed all the time due to the abuse id been suffering, along with other things. I never hurt anyone, nor myself, but people would harass me saying that I would become a serial killer & similar. People would provoke me to get me angry, and then would call me shit. at the time, I actually had a true crime interest, but the more the harassment went on, the harder it got to watch true crime. everytime I would watch true crime, my harm ocd (caused by the constant harassment) would pick apart every little thing about the perpetrators & would compare it to me. for example, id get an intrusive thought like : the killer lost a father at a young age, just like you, you will become a killer because of this. This fucked me up BAD, I actually cannot watch true crime to this day without atleast getting severely paranoid, on bad days I may have a panic attack. on top of this, I had fallen into a psychotic break in middle school, true crime made me think (and still currently does, despite me not being in an episode anymore), that everyone, including my family, were out to get me in some way. now, I stay to myself, got a few friends but I try to not interact with anyone unless they talk to me first. basically : don’t tell people, especially kids, that they will become an awful person!!!!!!!!!!!
That sounds horrible. I can’t stand the stigma that mentally ill people will grow up to be like that. It’s so incredibly damaging.
I have multiple friends (mostly online) who have BPD or DID. They’re absolutely lovely people. I know from them telling me that the media portrayals and that stigma make life harder for them. Most people don’t grow to be anywhere close to a serial killer, yet that’s always associated with conditions like that.
I usually don’t reply to comments, but reading this just stuck out to me. As someone who has been bullied in elementary school. Telling kids they’re grow up to be awful is one of the most harmful things a person can say to them.
I hope you’re doing alright.
The "awareness" argument always seems completely unhinged to me. Awareness of what? How not to get killed by this guy who is no longer in a position to kill anyone? Doesn't true crime as a genre also raise awareness for serial killers on how to not get caught? That seems like the much more powerful point of awareness. A regular person if they get obsessed with true crime and by sheer bad luck wind up nearly getting targeted but then managing to avoid death with their knowledge isn't necessarily catching the perpetrator, in which case the killer just moves on to a victim who isn't obsessed with the genre. But a serial killer who gets awareness of the pitfalls of prior killers is certain to find that awareness useful. It's an asymmetric issue that I don't think we can put any faith in the idea that outcomes are net positive. Not to mention if you spend a ton of time learning and obsessing over an absurdly unlikely way to die, that leaves you less aware of the actual risks you may be taking in life. We all have limited time and attention, the idea that you can both learn all the ways serial killers operate AND all the things you need to actually live a long, healthy, and as trauma-free as possible life is probably not true.
So ultimately I don't buy the awareness angle. While I'm a fan of broad learning I do think there are certain things that a person can absorb, even technically true things, which do more harm than good. And sometimes awareness helps the side you're against more than the side you are on.
'Awareness' seems especially weak in this example. You're warning sex workers that their work is dangerous, doubly so if they're queer or minorities, and the authorities will be incredibly slow to help if they even do? I suspect they're aware.
The only awareness True Crimes brings, at least from the content I consumed, is
1) the police is even more incompetent than we thought
2) serial killers are not the smart geniuses we are lead think we are
3) our flaws as a society is what lets many serial killers get away with it (the ones we have studied at least)
Funnily enough very few True Crimes content creators focus on these aspects...
The awareness/ understanding of the monster argument has always been kinda bullshit. I say this as someone who had a whole phase of reading and watching everything I could about murders because I wanted to know what made them do the things they did. And on a more selfish level confirm to me that what my classmates and teachers said about me wasn't true (I was one of those quite goth kids who got called a potential school shooter because I lived in colorado, dressed in all black, and didn't really like that I kept getting bullied for my dyslexia.)
What always hit me was how hard it was to find information about the people these monsters killed.
I couldn't find things like the things these men loved doing. Who they were outside of the victims of murder. It was something that really started bugging me because so often if you did find something about the victims it was always with qualifiers like "The victim was no saint he had an unpaid parking ticket at the time of his murder so it was totally fine if Dahmer murdered him"
Always shifting the blame onto the men who died. Always saying don't look at how systemic failures happened because the cops can't be criticized for doing nothing and letting a pedo murderer go. Don't look at the system that told marginalized people "its your fault that this person died because even though you did everything right you missed the part where we don't care because you aren't white"
both sides are weak arguments in regards to the existance itself of the show. now, the quality of the show? a whole other matter.
raising awareness would be great for how often people sense/experience several flag with someone for multiple ways in which the fishy person behaves that makes their mask fall. And the person who says that the person us fishy is not believed because the person in question is popular, well adjusted and handsome.
And as a result awful things happen because people who are creeped out/have bad experiences with white dudes are not taken seriously.
I saw someone defend the show + people making jokes about Dahmer and his victims by saying “people have different ways of coping with trauma” like- nobody who made the show and nobody who watched it and is making jokes about it has trauma from Jeffrey’s crimes to be coped with?? It just felt very odd to me that this person said that. I don’t know exactly how to phrase it but something something about how enmeshment and intrusiveness is becoming so prevalent in how we act online.
Not to be rude but I'm pretty sure they meant that some people would cope better with the story being well known and showed to everyone rather than hidden forever, same as WW2 video games, some soldiers really loved being able to share their tales and make it feel real, while others found it insulting to real war.
@@thechugg4372 no one said what Dahmer did needed to be hidden forever. WW2 and one serial killer are very different things with a different affect. Please point me to any of the victims’ family members who said they want to story to be told and twisted over and over and over without compensating or consulting them. Please show me the people affected who said that because those are the people who need to “cope” from this.
@@thechugg4372 Do... you think that one of the three most well known and openly discussed serial killers in history needs more exposure, really?
@@thechugg4372 Also both sides of the war point are dumb assholes. Soldiers and war should not be glorified, nor should they invoke sympathy for any but the people murdered for profit.
@@Jane-oz7pp keep this energy with narcos. Oh wait. U forgot about that didn’t u. Even tho it’s got the exact same problem according to u. But u didn’t know about it. Care about it. Until I just mentioned it. Showing that dude above has a point about how selective this is
Boomer memes using a real historical serial killer is a layer of hell. Not quite “the screams of the children have been edited out” but approaching it
Nah the Saturday night live line is very appropriate here
Evan Peters kinda blew out his horror back on AHS and I don’t know that he’s ever recovered.
This is worse than AHS tacky :/
Aging up victims and copaganda is so fucking nasty. It’s rewriting history for no clear reason. Serial killers already have fandoms.
Those giant British brick walls along the roads are so nostalgic to me 🥲
10:00 that’s fucking vile idk who you are or what you like. The only excuse for this picture existing is if she were training to do forensics and got hype
I remember being a 14 yr old kid, reading the My Friend Dahmer comic in one sitting when i was in freshman year. I became completely engrossed by the story, bc i wanted to know more about this guy that was so scary and weird and an outcast. I related to him bc i was weird and kinda an outcast. I read about the case one evening and then i looked up pictures from the scene. I saw one picture. I dont remember what it was. My mind blocked it out.
I remember closing the window, deleting my history and proceding to try not yo vomit.
I also remembering wanting to try to "save" dahmer or someone like him. Bring him to the light, make him not feel alone so he wouldnt hurt anyone.Ect. Now, im just digusted.
I think you can only really relate to your own age. So when you are 14 and hear about Dahmer, you can’t set yourself in the shoes of a killer. But you can set yourself in the shoes of a bullied teenager. An outcast. You can empathize and want to save someone evil.
Then you grow up and turn into the age Dahmer was when he was doing the shit he did. You can attempt to place yourself in his shoes, and if you are normal you’ll be instantly disgusted. The bullying and broken home isn’t all you focus on anymore.
@@vincedevour2545well said.
I think my friend Dahmer is good in that it's not only made by a person who actually knew Dahmer but also that it doesn't go into the murders very much so it doesn't feel so gratuitous.
I love Jordan Peele's Nope SO MUCH because it is entirely about the spectacle and trauma of true crime, all while being fictitious!!! It explores concepts without being exploitative, while being ABOUT EXPLOITATION!! I stopped being into true crime a while ago mostly because of reasons stated in this video essay. I found other media that scratches that itch for me. True crime, and even biopics in general, feel gross. I don't need to know this. I don't want to know this. This story is not mine and it was not written for me. I want filmmakers to tell me stories about the world that feel true without relying on BASED ON A TRUE STORY to sell me that trauma
"I found other media that scratches that itch for me." Do tell!
damn people are sensetive these days
@@deusexmachina9776 its not sensitive to have empathy for victims of horrific crimes being turned into figure numbers for entertainment, and its NOT cool and edgy to not have feelings about that and being ""unphased"" by terrible stories
@@oldflowers1342 Jacob Geller's video essays on fear are very good, also general horror/suspense movies and procedurals. The Magnus archives is a fantastic fictional horror podcast that feels like true crime. Shows like Hannibal, the Batman franchise, anything with goofy serial killers/criminals. Better call Saul first that bracket too. To replace true crime podcasts I've gotten into movie review podcasts, specifically ones with queer hosts because they reflect my experiences. Honestly it's a personal taste thing, but hopefully these could be a good jumping off place
@@albedoweatheruno oh so watching true crime means you don't have empathy. Wow. Yeah other people's stories should never ever ever be told
The big name serial killers, often solved and concluded, don't need awareness, what does need it are cold cased and missing people cases that gets overlooked and forgotten.
A show that dedicates one episode to one of those types of cases would be creating a lot more awareness where it could help.
I've watched youtube videos covering these and on rare occasion that reach helps find new evidence.
Another issue I have with the "awareness" argument is that this case has been discussed, analysed and fictionalised to hell and back already. The Netflix show says nothing new, nothing of value, does not bring awareness to an important, overlooked topic.
yea Dahmer has been a household name literally since he committed those crimes.
THANK YOOUUU.
YES, when this was announced I am like "really?...another one?" Awareness to one of the most notorious serial killers in the US? No, it's Netflix capitalizing off a very well known person to kids that have not consumed as much media about him as adults have. The Halloween *costume popularity is just disgusting.
Really? And you're the arbiter of this? Plenty of people had no clue about the extent of his crimes before the series. And the episode of about Tony Hughes adds a whole hell of a lot to the story around Jeffrey Dahmer. It constantly talks about how the system failed to stop Dahmer and how easily all of this could have been avoided.
@@leamJG I would bet money that any top 10 serial killers show, podcast, TH-cam video, book, magazine, videogame, back of the pasta box and toilet paper sheet has talked about Dahmer ad nausea, I'm sorry but there was just no need for this
One of Jeffrey's classmates did a biography/comic about growing up with him but one of the things he stated was his intentions were to never lionize Jeffrey and that no one should see him as a victim to society.
But he made money from the story right ??
@@mariahelganova2927 If he did he has every right too. Thats his story
Thanks so much for featuring our music! True crime is a form of entertainment where respect to those involved is tantamount. 15 years ago trash tv shows like CSI and SVU could get away with the dumbest shit because even if it vaguely resembles a real case, it's still not depicting real events and dramatizing real people. Frankly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Netflix is going to learn that controversial true crime means more attention and try to produce another miniseries about Dennis Rader or Gacy, going the same exploitative route by both sympathizing and sexualizing another remorseless and conventionally unattractive literal real-life serial killer that doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.
The music featured from your group is great, good energy. The world always needs more punk! New listener gained and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Cheers guys, keep going for it.
@@chirstinasilver7274 Glad you like it! We're on Spotify and all the other places people in 2022 normally listen to music.
Listened to you on Bandcamp after watching this video, best punk discovery since I first heard The Power Of Lard. You got yourself a new fan!
@@FuckYourSelf99 Glad you like it! Send us a message with an address and we'll send you some merch.
If they are going to do series like this they first need to get permission from victims' families and they should focus on the lives that were taken not on the killer who took those lives. it romanticizes them and just tells people like them that if they do this horrible shit they will be remembered forever while the victims will be forgotten
no they dont need to do that,how do you make a movie about the Iraq War,consult 100,000 different families?
@@Gos1234567 "Serial killers and war are the same thing" -you
@@genericname2747 Putin is a serial killer,as were Hitler and Stalin
@@Gos1234567 What, you think Hitler personally killed every single person who died in the holocaust? He caused a genocide. Genocide is not the same as being a serial killer
@@genericname2747 No Hitler no holocaust,you think he is innocent of their deaths?FFS what about Mafia dons that order killings,you think they are innocent?FFS dont be so naive
There was a huge drug and CP bust in my neighbourhood a few years back and it was all organised by one guy (allegedly- I think he just took the fall for it all) but he became known as this 'Sherlock-esque' level of intelligent man who evaded police for so long. It was super upsetting considering people died.
The funny thing is that the show discusses the victim compensation thing with Dahmer’s dad’s book. It felt like they were very self-unaware. His book got cancelled, but this show gets to make millions.
basically, just ˝Jeffrey'sy dad wanted to make money from the situation, what a clown, that money belongs to us˝
Your mum is wonderful, I really appreciate her perspective here. You're not talking over her or disagreeing or anything, you're digging a little deeper on those surface thoughts and elaborating on them, reaching different conclusions or agreeing from a different angle. Very valuable as I know a lot of people with the kind of "detached from media, not compulsively overthinking things" perspective and I think that's a very important part of the conversation about this sort of stuff.
It's like the True Crime shows have completely desensitised people to the idea of crimes and criminals being, well, *REAL.* Every crime is a tragedy, a failure of our society. *NOT* free entertainment!
Why haven't people learned yet that making shows like this only *ENCOURAGES* serial criminals to exist! For the eternal infamy! it's been a known pattern for decades...
bruh tf u mean
I refuse to watch any documentary that puts a spotlight on the serial killer (played by a much more attractive actor of course) because I feel like they would be so thrilled that so many people are intrigued and fascinated with their crimes. People forget those are real people that he killed with friends and families that loved them.
That’s asinine. Next you’re going to say nobody’s allowed to make violent video games anymore because FPS games cause school shootings or something.
The popularity of True Crime shows began with TV movies in the mid 80s, which was the peak of serial murder in the USA. It has steadily declined since then.
Meanwhile school shootings have been on the rise in recent years, but shows about them are very few and far between for obvious reasons.
@@morbidsearch that’s because of all the violent bideo games!!!!
Also choosing Evan peters, a famously listed after celebrity, to play a real life murderer was a real interesting choice
Netflix did the same with Ted..with the Disney guy the girls like. This is NOT on purpose
@@Ishbikeswell i mean ted bundy used his looks to his advantage, so it makes sense to have a hot dude play him
@@batjackattack5556 As someone who watched the movie with Zac Efron, I can confirm that they did great with the casting. Ted Bundy was 'attractive' yes, but Efron delivered this perfomance that made him look as manipulative and really creepy. Which was on point, wether you're aware of Bundy or not.
My 15 year old niece got into this show and developed an annoying obsession with Dahmer, to the point where she'd bring him up in random conversations and call him Jeff, like "Bro that's some Jeff shit, no cap". Thankfully it's out of her system now
Teens nowadays are stupid and annoying
Your conversation with your mom reminded me of one of the very few good memories I have with my dad. He lived basically across the road from a corner store and one time when I was seven, I asked him if I could go alone to it and he said no. When I asked why, he listed five missing kids in the news. It was weird because very regularly he let us go wherever we want and he'd leave us alone for a while in public. Only later did I realise that the conversation was right after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. It's weird thinking about it now because my dad was a bad, irresponsible father, but that one case spooked him enough to take responsibility for his kids even if it was just a few weeks.
Even bad people possess a parental instinct. Somewhere within at least
Ryan Murphy should have stayed in his lane instead of pretending to b a ‘serious’ filmmaker. I have friends who are AHS fans and even they hate the way he tends to handle stuff like SA scenes
I’m always amazed that we don’t get true crime stories from history that won’t harm anyone living today, people who died 100+ years ago usually have living descendants but not living immediate family.
A movie about the Sodder Children or even the Lindbergh baby could be extremely compelling and scary without directly hurting anyone. Great video.
Isn't Jack the Ripper stuff p common
@@jimbogreen7029 it was before the current true crime boom funnily enough, but once people started picking up on more recent and sensationalized serial killers people stopped doing jack the ripper stuff
They can do Gilles de Rais.
An H.H. Holmes movie would be pretty rad.
I need a story about a female killer for once
My father was murdered and if they decided to make a Halloween costume of my dad's killer , I go to take my child trick or treating only to see people dressed like the man I would completely have a nervous breakdown!! Smh
Dude...i saw him ..he was wearing a ben cooper mask set of the incredible melting man
I was very into true crime as a teenager but it really makes you think of people in a very damaging way. I got very paranoid, was always scared on the bus and walking around. Me and my mom did martial arts together and she's always very social and nice to everyone. Once she offered to give a guy in our group a ride home and I just remerber being terrified of being in a car with him, even though he'd never done anything objectionable. He declined and the second he was out of earshot I started asking my mom why she'd do that, we didn't know him, who knows what he might do and so on. It really was a wakeup call, before that I hadn't realised how much the media I consumed was changing my perception of the people around me
When you say true crime do you mean shows/movies? Or actual documentaries/studies?
I went through a phase in middle school where I watched every cheap serial killer documentary I could find on TH-cam. It came from the same impulse that made me look up shock sites, I was a kid and my developing brain wanted to figure out what The Worst Thing looked like, and I didn’t have the empathic capacity to see the victims and their families as people (the presentation of this content really didn’t help). I absolutely would’ve watched Dahmer if it came out in 2011.
I’m still very morbid, but as an adult I’ve learned that empathy and to be discerning in what I support by watching. I look back on those documentaries with a different kind of horror. What a lazy, irresponsible, retraumatizing way to make money. I will never make anything targeted towards the audience I used to be. It’s a hollow facsimile of art and the desire to watch it is a shallowness that I’m so relieved I outgrew on my own.
I can definitely understand true crime as a “fictional” story, an exploration of dark themes and emotions. I was really into a lot of the same stuff in high school during the creepypasta boom. I would look at Reddit 50/50 and things like liveleak and the rest of that shit.
But the problem is that despite how sensationalized it is, true crime is not fiction. These are real people, their deaths were real. Young people go for sensationalism, for intensity, and usually it is harmless but when real people are affected that is when a line gets crossed
Thank you so much for this video because some people online are the lowest common denominator when it comes to having common sense. People were chastising the victims family because the family found the whole series retraumatizing. I swear to God I hate people sometimes 😒
@@mindlander Wow, I'm sure they didn't notice, thank you so very much for your contributions buddy.
@@mindlander chronically online but trying to brag about it like it’s good energy
@@mindlander no shit Sherlock
that’s so fucked up, why are people like this
I'm somewhat in a grey zone. I do have empathy for the families and victims but also just that fact someone could be traumatized or retraumatized isn't always a reason to prevent something. Maybe sometimes maybe not - context matters. The truth is that the amount of people who experience trauma is quite high and while some people can isolate and prevent themselves from re-exposure or thinking about it, it's also not realistic in a society that you'll never come across those things.
It bothers me that the creators of the show kept going on how they wanted to be respectful of the victims and their families and yet plaster the show everywhere and not compensate any of the victims families any of the massive profits they made off this, also the fact that they glamorised Dahmer like that, they should’ve made it about each victim showing us their story and how their lives were tragically cut short by this monster
the only fictional version of Dahmer's case I've encaged with is Derf Backderf's comic "My Friend Dahmer". It's about the author's life in high-school and how he knew Dahmer personally. I think it's way more interesting because it still is about the author's own experiences. I don't mind someone arguing that it's still rather unethical or at least a complex issue for Derf to tell this story. At least it's about a person's own experiences and not total exploitation. It's a surreal read and a good story.
I think the author also deliberately ended "My Friend Dahmer" (timeline and plot wise) before Dahmer first killed someone. Iirc it was because the author lost any empathy he had for Dahmer retroactively when Dahmer made the choice to kill
I tried to watch the first episode, and just burst out crying. I genuinely felt grief towards the victims, but I knew from the first couple of scenes that the show did not. It scared me and made me incredibly sad, not because of the content, but because it existed.
To say the actors and creators felt no remorse for the families is just stupid.
@@imretro2182 What do you mean by this?
They not make Dahmer likable if peoples who fall for this are retards .. For me they showed very wel what a monster he really was
Just now youtube put up a 2 year old video saying Dear Internet Stop Crushing for Jefrey Dahmer.. Believe me, people were stupid before, and not because of this series.. the impact of this series is negligible !
There are many film who presented by Hitler personal life or Stalin that is not a problem in this case ?
Also why Albert Fish got a movie or Chikatilo? Those are still fine? Chikatilo and fish are the most evil serial killers and most twisted to
@@imretro2182 they’re bringing their trauma back by revisiting it, it was purely money motivated profiting off of someone else’s horror story without permission by a racist corporation it’s fair to say that they have no remorse
@@ggkora22 Racist? What about the show strikes you as racist? I’m sorry to break it to you honey but everything is about money.
I learned more and got a greater understanding of Dahmer’s crimes just by reading his Wikipedia page. It was just a dedication to facts without dramatization.
There was also a heavy mother blaming tone which made me realize pretty early on that the effect of this series would be bad
I just can’t stop thinking about what if that were me. What if my brother had been a victim and I was forced to see his death played over and over again for the entertainment of others? I cannot imagine the pain. That’s why I can’t watch this show.
What about the 9/11 Films in this case?
@@sanabanaqt You still have an anime profile :)
That’s some narcissism right there
2:14 i'm sorry, i had to pause the video because while i've heard of this show, i didn't know that Ryan "Last Person I Would Trust With A True Crime Show About A Serial Killer" Murphy was involved. my interest in this show just went from 1% to 0%
Opened up the video and I instantly regret knowing that "Jeffrey Dahmer meme review" is a real thing
This!
Cry about it
@@ATthemusician are you really so mad that people are uncomfortable with a “documentary” sympathizing with a serial rapist murderer that you’re going into the comments and being a goddamn crybaby? Go learn some basic fucking empathy
@@ATthemusician mentally ill
@@ATthemusician fr. Is it like ppls first time on the internet. Again ur allowed to feel a type of way. But seriously. Ur upset at Dahmer memes when memes of the Ukraine war were popping off earlier in the year?
In a way it's obvious and obnoxious that Evan Peters was cast. He has a huge dedicated fanbase. His roles in AHS are always done well, and yet we can also see over there the love people have for the school shooter he played in season 1.
This was a deliberate choice. They very well know their audience. It's sick.
Let people play the roles they want. Stop trying to control everyone. You don't know him, he owes you nothing. He's allowed to play that part, if it interests him. Some people are not as sheltered as you.
@@DeepsGnomeWow, you’ve been at this for weeks now. I wonder how far the rabbit hole goes for you when it comes to this show. I can get fixated every now and then, but I’ve never traced weeks worth of comments just to reflexively disagree with all of them the way you have. How confident you must be…
@@cyanmanta lol... Weeks...? Wow... I believe 1 day, but your maths is amazing...lol...
@@cyanmanta but you are at least right about 1 thing, i am confident. Confident that there are a bunch of people on here with a sense of entitlement towards thier belief in ethics around producing shows about historic events...lol
it's just so genuinely sickening, both the existence of dahmer, the existence of serial killer fan culture (which i want to emphasize is different from the true crime fandom), the reality of what happens when there exists a group of people whom no one cares about, and the fact that netflix treated this whole thing the way disney treats their remakes--shallow, heartless cash-grabs with zero empathy for the people who get hurt.
I personally cant understand there being any kind of true crime fandom at all, i know theres probably a fine reason but i cant justify to myself reading about murders as entertainment
@@L0rdOfThePies That's where you're mistaken, true crime isn't a source of entertainment, it's a source of information, on the killer, the killer's psyche, the victims, etc. Taking interest in something doesn't automatically make it "entertainment".
@@shreb6182 ah i do appreciate you trying to give me insight into the reason why people are interested in true crime, its nice to know new things i suppose. but in this case i'd understand it if there wasnt so much fanfare around these things, its treated more like a spectacle than a documentary series. Cast Hollywood's latest sweetheart in a tragically deadly role.. whole fandoms about cases. I dunno but it just strikes the wrong chord with me how its treated
@@L0rdOfThePies oh yeah, that is definitely true. While I am a frequent consumer of true crime and appreciate it's presence, it's very saddening to see that a considerable number of these "documentaries" are nothing more than mere cash grabs that have no concern for the victim's or their family's mental health or consent
@@shreb6182 its presence in the media saddens me for the victim's families, i heard a few years ago that if you search up a few of bundy's many victims the first thing to come up is the actor who played the "character" in some netflix movie. No wiki about the victim and it said "fictional character" next to her name. Imagine seeing that as a family member, someone you loved referred to as a fictional character in a movie staring and fixating on her real abuser/killer. Speaks alot about how these true crime and tragedies are treated
25:33 hit rather close to home for me. I can remember several moments in my life where I have been called a school shooter, which is odd since I live in Canada, where school shootings are rather uncommon. It really has affected me negatively, since I am scared of talking about the scarier symptoms of my mental illness even with my own therapist. I suffer from aggressive, bigoted and violent intrusive thoughts, and I desperately want reassurance and comfort but I'm scared people would think I'm a dangerous person. I also fear that I am, in fact, an awful person and everything everyone has said about me is right.
Here's a reminder that awful people don't worry if they're awful people. Everyone has baggage to unpack! Your scary thoughts are very likely a symptom of anxiety and repression -- a sign that you should seek help to explore your inner landscape safely, not a sign that you're bad or broken. xo
Edit, sorry I misread your message: Hey friend, I am a mental health worker in Canada, and I would really like to encourage you to reach out for help. Intrusive thoughts of harming others do not make you a bad person, if anything they are a sign that you are very worried about hurting others and that's what makes these thoughts sticky. I cannot provide you with a diagnosis but please know that anxiety or OCD with thoughts and fears of harming others is much more common than is often talked about, and there are developed therapeutic strategies for easing these thoughts. Your therapist might ask you some questions initially to make sure you don't have intent to harm anyone, but what you're saying here makes it clear you don't. When you're dealing with intrusive thoughts you need support from other people even though it's scary to reach out. This stuff is very hard or impossible to manage on your own.
It's really brave to talk about this stuff, even to strangers online, and I really want to encourage you to keep reaching out. If you are worried about your relationship with your therapist you can also call 211 in most provinces to get connected to a mental health center.
I hope your ok! No one should go through that! :(
Hello. I’ve had problems like this in the past. When my anxiety was worse.
Im pretty sure I had thoughts like that at a frighteningly young age. A lot of undiagnosed mental illness stuff. Actually, the only thing I acted on was thoughts against myself- which ended up spiraling into something absolutely terrible.
I know what it’s like to have very bad intrusive thoughts. I want to stress that when I got help with my anxiety, when I got diagnosed with autism and began understanding what that meant, when I started understanding and getting support for my ADHD, the intrusive thoughts got better. I’ve had medications that give me bad thoughts too- ones that made the problems a lot worse. You have to tell the doctor about those, and it can be really hard to do that.
I’d suggest you try to get support. Having those thoughts is natural for some people, but it doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. In fact, your revulsion at the idea of those things is a sign that you’re not going to do them. I find that when I’m in a state of sensory overload and extreme anxiety, I have thoughts of trying to “solve” the problem through the most ridiculous of means. Which makes the anxiety worse, which makes the sensory issues worse, which increases those thoughts. The thing I’ve learned to do is prevent the sensory issues in the first place, have a plan ahead of time for when they do happen, and have a way to escape when things get too much. I don’t always do it right, but it’s getting better.
I couldn't stop pushing buttons after i got accused TBH
It's the "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" mentality that gives folks the rationalizations to run roughshod over other people and their feelings to do shit like....create a *very* cheesecake story of a serial killer and their victims. The studio knew they were in the wrong, but instead of being actual mature adults, they decided to put that narcissism to good use and make everyone involved their dollhouse toys. Geezus...
"If you grew up in high school in the last decade, you've probably experienced having at least one weird kid who keeps getting called the sсhоol shооtеr"
I indeed experienced that weird kid. That weird kid was me lol. Some people actually tried to rob me because they thought I was one.
I also think the awareness angle is particularly stupid in light of the fact that more awareness around serial killers tends to lead to them having more fans, and even imitators. It's the same thing with school shooters. The publicizing and sensationalizing of mass shooters is thought to be a significant factor in inspiring further shootings, and has lead to efforts such as the "Don't Name Them" campaign which aims to follow in the footsteps of similar campaigns initiated to prevent copycat suicides, after media attention was observed as a potential factor in a rise of cases. Extremely tired of this serial killer media trend
I agree with you. I am from other country, and the police used to hide the personal information of serial killers. But many criminologists in my country claims that there should be more awareness to the serial killers, so now the police and the media publicize the murderers. Ever since the police started doing that, many people started to stan murderers and some of them even harassed victims and their family. But I personally believe the sex predators should be disclosed, since they are much more likely to commit the same crime after they are released from the prison, although I believe they deserve life time prison.
Even when they DO go to the victims it's like... A friend of mine was victimized and they consulted my friend when they wanted to reboot the media that was used to victimized them. But the phrasing and communication that was used with my friend was very much encouraging one action over another, in such a way that I was able to tell them that the big corp actually did not care about them. So they could answer whatever they wanted, the reboot would still go on.
It's just beyond hypocritical to see Ryan Murphy critizice people who profit from the Dahmer case and treat him like a fictitional slasher villain after seeing what he did in American Horror Story: Hotel
I don't know if he ever made good things that aren't spectacle, (funny that my teacher used to hate Glee because durr western culture free sex homosexuality but then we learn that it's bad for different reasons like, why is this teacher not fired). I liked Asylum and I don't think it's deliberately good XD
Don't forget AHS Cult which straight up used real life cult leaders as fictional characters. I liked most of AHS before hotel but the first time I heard Ryan Murphy was doing true crime I knew it'd be disrespectful as hell.
I never watched hotel (I was mostly into ahs because of Jessica Lange) and I thought you were talking about how the season was probably made to cash in on the Elisa Lam case, but apparently they had an episode where a bunch of real life serial killers just ate dinner together???
@@fantage20012dude i fucking forgot that that happened. In my teen years i remember being excited to watch this dinner scene. Now at age 22 i can fully say - What the actual fuck is wrong with them for making that shit. Awful, awful.
@@fantage20012 And then you know AHS 1984.....where they literally had a depiction of Richard Ramirez as some sort of hot babe badass that people would be into, which some people were legitimately turned on by him. Ryan Murphy is really sketchy to me mid key.
honestly this has been a gnawing feeling for a long time. a year or two ago a close friend of mine showed me one of her bday presents: a serial killer coloring book. i wonder now how long this has really been building.
what why does that exist
that's disgusting
5:35 Yes! I also felt like the actor who played Konerak looked at least 17, I was shocked when I looked up the actual person and saw that he looked so much more child-like in real life. Definitely seemed like the show was trying to make his murder look less horrifying than it actually was 😬
not that it excuses it, I think its an awful nasty decision, but I think its about not showing graphic violence against kids. Kind of an American view of media to shy away from that. Even if it ends up shining a better light on a literal child killer 😮💨
Ouch
Honestly a show that calls out the ethics of true crime shows is honestly American Vandal. It's a comedic show and taking a piss out of it, but it's the only one that directly calls into question the ethics of the film makers and the consequences of airing everyone's personal lives out to a public viewing audience.
American Vandal is sooooooo good! Netflix was absolutely dumb af to abandon it
A particular thing I remember was when I first felt uncomfortable and offended even by fiction was the Jack the Ripper DLC for Assassin's Creed Syndicate. Specifically, when the Ripper's victims were not only left unnamed they were recast as secret ninjas. Somehow that felt like the most callous and dehumanizing thing I'd ever encountered in a game.
My favorite fiction about a serial killer (and crime/murder fiction in general) is Alan Moore's comic From Hell, which is about the Jack the Ripper murders. When you open the collected edition the first thing you read (after the inside flap summary) is a dedication and expression of sympathy for the Canonical Five victims of the Ripper and a statement that while we may never know who the murderer really was, we know that these women were real people. The comic itself uses multiple perspective characters, switching between the victims, the killer, and the police investigating the murders. A great deal of emphasis is placed in both the story itself and Moore's annotations to the lives of the victims and the very real deprivations and injustices they suffered at the hands of an uncaring society (and indicts that society today has only grown more cold and alienated). The victims aren't just props, best exemplified by that they are not secret ninjas. Or as Moore puts it in his annotations: "These women were neither the sultry, wanton beauties that they are depicted as being in the more exploitational Ripper movies, nor the disfigured and toothless hags that some writers have described them as. They were ordinary women, who, despite their deprived and unhealthy situation, were trying to look attractive for the only job that society had seen fit to offer them."
Also eyyyy The Day Today and the WAR!
Alan Moore > everyone
@@creepfish All-Beard knows the score.
AC shouldn’t be your historical go-to for accuracy. They use characters from real historical events and mood them so they fit the overarching plot of AC. Big to mention the victims are not readily known.
God wasnt there a ripper movie about how Jack was a protector of humanity and the ladies were secretly aliens taking the form of women. That was stupid. Secret ninja level of bad.
Jack,
As a man who has been wearing aviators for years now, I feel you on the "these glasses make me look like Dahmer" problem but like you, I am also not going to stop wearing them because I like them and I didn't do it cuz of this stupid show.
I absolutely adore your relationship with your mom, reminds me of my own. I think you should have a video where your mom exclusively narrates, she seems insightful and it would be adorable.
Sorry this comment is 8 months late and you will probably never read it lol. Keep up the good work.
"Making money off people's misery is an industry."
-Mike Stoklasa of RedLetterMedia
i think this quote just perfectly summarizes the whole idea of true crime or entertainment in general
I hate how they try to paint Jeffrey in a "regretful" light. He was a known manipulator, like wtf who cares what he said he's actively trying to warp your perception of him.
your comment about the Dahmer sketch on snl was really on the nose FYI. I went to the dress rehearsal taping for snl last week and they had a whole sketch about Dahmer that got cut. I've never seen a sketch bomb so badly. Glad they figured out it was a bad idea, even if Netflix didn't.