Pushing the BLADELESS to the MAX | Fan Showdown Special
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2022
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After episode seven of season four I received tons of comments from people wanting to see the bladeless fan tested with many other types of fans. Well I hear your request and today we will do just that, let’s see just how far we can push this design.
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The smoke, while absolutely fascinating to watch also showed me a issue, blow by at the gaps = wasted energy. Maybe you can print some gaskets with flexible fliiment?
Or just use some electrical tape
@@liiich6175 yep, that's the universal thing for small gaps.
@@liiich6175
Hot glue might also be useful 🤷♂️ if the surface is smooth enough, it should just peel off after testing
@@RazeR8023 yep! the duct tape of little things.
Tpu gaskets
If I am not mistaken, one of the main things you need for a bladeless housing like this to work well is for the fan to be good at creating higher pressure, not necessarily more airflow.
This is why Dyson's bladeless fans use a centrifugal compressor.
Exactly, It'd be more interesting with a squirrel cage fan.
Or his turbocharger thing
Now I want to see the Season 6 "Wonder from Down Under" placed in between the T30 Cheater and the Bladeless
Just in case anyone else was curious like me, I went back to look at a previous fan showdown video to see if this contraption actually increases the airflow. Short answer: it doesn't. Doing some quick math and looking at some numbers from previous videos, the Bladeless housing caused the fans to perform about 30% worse on average than by themselves.
well that math checks out since it goes from 120mm down to 80mm. thats a 30% smaller hole, to see if there is any benefit you'd have to make a 120mm version of the bladeless housing
@@Sausketo It's problem is one of wetted area, which is huge
Also especially once we start going for bigger stacks, the gaps leak quite a bit
The lack of gasketing multi-part setups on this channel drives me mad. A lot of these multi-part models have shown to be leaky during smoke tests. For those of you that clearly don't understand why this is an issue, any leaky connection will skew results, multiple leaky connections worsens this, this makes these tests even less scientific than they already are, they are bad comparisons; duct tape exists for a reason, preventing leaky ducts, gaskets exist for a reason, preventing leaks between two surfaces, etc. Some of you really are utterly moronic.
Also, isn't the bladeless design meant more for a high pressure fan? I wouldn't be surprised if it's built on the idea of passing high pressure air through a restricted nozzle outlet, and having that air drag the surrounding, otherwise stagnant, air with it, for 'amplification' in multiple meanings. Someone should deep dive the Dyson patents and see if they explain an operation model at all.
@@xaytana i saw some guy do some extensive testing and the bladeless design is just inherently inefficient. the regular dyson is louder at less performance than a random household fan. to be fair it does have to pull through some filters and shit tho
Someone correct me if i am wrong, but this type of fan (the bladeless housing) works on the “stickiness” of fluids at high speed. This means that you need static pressure and high speed air which most of these fans do not do so well at. These fans are great at pushing large volumes of air, but are terrible at creating pressure at high speed. And i think this is where the centrifugal fans will come into play. Previously these “fans” are notorious for performing poorly, however they were not used what they are meant for, and that is creating high speed air at high pressure. If those fans were used (like the ones based of a turbocharger) i think this bladeless design would work significantly better. The housing however, does not look like it was designed mathematically to achieve the best result, but i think it would be cool to give it a try
compressive loads at the fan doesnt do shit since if u put any kind of resistance like a case at the bladeless end the air will just come out the wrong end
@@jeriztattoo well actually no, the reason this would work is because of the static pressure that those fans create. Assuming that the outlet inside the bladeless is facing towards the rear, as it is in the Dyson bladeless fans, the centrifugal impellers would be able to overcome the pressure resistance within the bottleneck before the bladeless casing end to actually push the air through the system and out the back, and at high speeds which is what the bladeless fans need to work (The centrifugal fans, however do not push large volumes of air, and this is why they have failed in previous fan showdown episodes). This is where the other fans have failed as they are good for pushing large volumes of air, but when they create the slightest bit of back pressure in the bottleneck, they cannot overcome it, and thus create turbulence at the intake end, as shown in the previous fan showdown with the air multiplication system and the smoke test. This is why a centrifugal fan/compressor/impeller is needed, in order to overcome the back pressure
Up next, fanless housing flow using a leaf blower
@@s1n1stersixsgaming8 I like the sounds of that
@@theexo-engineer9603 i do believe we have a case of "spherical cow in a vacuum" in reality the air multiplication system on display does little more than add losses
I'm at the 3:32 mark in the video and I just wanna say, YES, WE WANNA SEE MORE. Whenever theres something off the wall like this, we want to see it tested in a few different ways. I was personally quite pleased when in the last fan showdown, you tested that one with and without the extra bit and then the results were reflected in the leader board. We know you cant do EVERYTHING, but a little experimentation and the display of that is always welcome here. We are a bunch of nerds and love seeing the scientific method applied. ❤ sending love and wishing you the best of luck, Texas out.
Edit: I now want to mount 3 of the boosted Cheaters on the front of a pc with this setup
We are essentially an audience of GLaDOS’s at this point lmao. But I 100% agree
@@matthewmccall551 ?
@@arealboiii4830 GLaDOS from Portal. Obsessed with testing and experimenting. To the point that it was her only vehicle for pleasure….kinda like us lol
Or you could go off the rails with dual 200 or 220mm fans and just have MAXIMUM AIRFLOW. My case is very old but it has a very quiet 200mm fan in the front that keeps my 3900XT and 2080 Ti nice and cool.
i swear to god this music carries the channel about as much as thomas does
I would love to see this design with some server-grade fan. They can create some serious static pressure!
Oh that's a fantastic idea
just put a 6k or 12k rpm delta fan in there. That would be interesting as a "whats the limit" kind of test.
Ear shattering high reviving 60mm fans :)
Yeah, there's this one 120mm fan by Delta Electronics that does something like 250 CFM
Use a pressurized air supply like house or shop compressed air
I just converted from FDM to a resin printer, and I think you could use this for printing fans as well. It makes the surface finish much better, and in my short experience it seems much easier to hit tight tolerances.
Thanks for the awesome videos!
Those gaps!! You can buy rubber or silicone fan gaskets in different sizes from Amazon for a couple dollars that would ensure no air leaks between your various connected parts.
Thx for the video!
Real chads saw the other video too :)
Yes
#MegaChad
dude i couldnt help but smile so hard when you cut to the smoke and the music started playing. Just felt so fun.
Yeah i love that Fan showdown theme song 😛
I wonder if this might be the first time the stepped nature of the print is interfering noticeably with the function of the part? One of the things I’ve noticed about vortex and bladeless fan designs is how super smooth the operational surfaces are: could that difference impact on entrainment and laminar flow across the surfaces?
I know it's a minor thing, but that yellow progress bar for the ad read is hella nice, I went back and sat through the ad instead of skipping it like I originally planned because of the extra effort.
Why is this my favorite series on TH-cam?! I haven’t had a computer for years, and building fans is the last thing I’d do. I just can’t stop watching!
I would love to see the counter rotating blades on the cheater!
Yes, I'd like to purchase 10 of these for my next PC build, please.
Does it come in RGB?
Air flow through the fan is looking FANTASTIC! Very good transfer of smoke from one side of the plexiglass to the other with no turbulence to kick smoke away from the fan orifice
A clear mock up case with filters etc to add some back pressure. Would be interesting to see how CFM, noise and rpm are affected by some 'load'.
That front 3/4 shot in the smoke test looks like magic, this is awesome
Maybe a fully Enclosed smoke camber might improve the smoke test to see how fast test fans can clear a volume.
air needs to get in in order for the smoke to get out, i doubt any of these fans can generate a vacuum
Thing's looking like a jet engine in the smoke test. Can you imagine what a PC case would have to look like to fit that monstrosity?
Yes 😍
Old school steam stack locomotive train PC case! Let's goooo
Boeing Sponsored 777 PC Case?
same concept but have a square top/bottom. you can have a larger fan at the top sucking in air and then directing the air through a series of ducts throgh the front and back.
@ 5:27 when you say, “What does it look like?” It looks like a big weed pipe, then you mention the smoke test. Ha!
I can see a few ways you might be able to increase the flow rate of that rig.
1. Reprint the "fanless" portion to accept a 120mm (or larger) fan directly.
2. If you don't wan't to do option 1, then for the adapter portion print a "reducer-expander" adapter. Think rocket combustion chamber and nozzle.
3. Look into reworking the venturis feeding the fan blown air-stream into the fanless
4. Accept that fanless "fans" are a gimmick that waste energy while looking cool.
Btw just a note of the front distro in your case. you are meant to have the water level above the return line so it you don't keep introducing air into the water with the waterfall effect.
Different regular fans in cheater’s “tubing” is what we all really want to see
Glad the reupload worked better lol, thx for vid!
I would like to see this with four fans on each side :P
Now we need the bladeless fan as a 120mm fan
Never thought id be here anticipating the bass drop for a smoke test. Nice touch
I see a lot of people talking about gaskets. if you want quick and dirty, just order some bulk, cut your own o-ring material and leave a groove in the print. you can just lay it in there and go. since it's low pressure just make the groove about 3/4 the depth of your rubber and a little tight, and you can just press it in.
yo that smoke vortex at the end going up the column was actually really cool to watch.
5:30 - when your fancy bong just doesn't cut it anymore so you have to improvise a solution of your own...:P
Love this channel!
So who like me watched the original before the fixed video?
Yep, liked em both.
yep. I always wanted to know why someone would download a video. Now I know.
I love these videos.
The interesting thing for me was there appears to be a fast moving outer tube of air from the fan with a slower moving central core that seem turbulent. This is the opposite of a commercial jet engine where the try to have a sub sonic shroud of air around the thrust to reduce noise and sonic booms from the thrust.
Some obvious changes would be a 120mm tube in to the body rather than the narrowing which will reduce pressure and as others have mentioned a more pressure orientated fan design.
I really enjoy each video and since I started watching I'd love to see what a EDF would do with this setup oh and how much smoke a EDF would move and what the air flow is.
Who knew fans could be so interesting? Cool stuff!
Test with Delta 120mm x 38mm fan AFB1212GHE. 5200rpm will beat T30, it's loud tho. There is a 7200 rpm version but it's more difficult to find. There's also the 140mm delta PFC1448HEE79 @ 8000rpm monster.
Very cool!
That perspex is like "it's ok everybody I got a strong back!"
Loving the 80s aesthetic music in the performance videos.
Take that original 80mm fan and upsize it to a 120mm size. Also try offsetting the top blades from the bottom blades. **Typed @ **5:22** in to the video in case he does either of these things.**
Dang, look at how much that tower of power is making those rails bow during the smoke test!
maybe there is a ratio between size of fan vs the size of the big hollow thing that could make it more optimal.
Amazing. Now put two fans on it by adding a fan on the side that connects to the tunnel / acrylic wall XD
Finally watching a video within the first 10 minutes has been posted
Finally commenting on a 10 min comment within 5 min of posting....
With that being said, I wonder how the original fan would do scaled up to 120 on a standard and cheater setup.
Also, the backside of the bladeless shroud looks like you can make a pull through setup on it.
Mount the fans directly behind it and do another test without all the rigmarole on top. Just make a block off plate for the top.
no suprises there. still fun to watch
It was deleted, but now it's BACK!
Now this should be the new test bench. T30 motor w/ viewer designed fans aiming to beat the T30 Cheater in this ONE scenario.
something that I'd like to see is this concept applied on a standard case like a meshify to make the top fans more useful (use a top fan to drive the bladeless tube and use the tube as a duct for the front fan)
You added the black background!!! NICE!
It would be interesting to see a test of just the fan setup driving the bladeless thing vs the bladeless assembly.
That 120-to-80mm adapter in this episode is what that pumpjet thing in the previous episode should have been. It had way too much neckdown for the pressure a pc fan can develop, causing choked flow.
Whenever some other channel uses the music used for the showdown I instantly think of this channel
Thanks :D It's awesome to see a channel taking its fan feedback onboard. Now, just strap it to an Intel NUC and we'd have the appropriate PC-Fan ratio :)
Just sent my design in for a genuine attempt at first place!
Now we've done different fans on the bladeless, we need to see different fans on the cheater hub.
It'd be interesting with a squirell cage fan (with a proper housing) - not only radial fan performs better with a static pressure, but it'd have intake right next to bladeless tube, which would imo look cool in the smoke test.
It's a pressure vs airflow. The blade less housing creates a much higher pressure area post fan then gets the air volume through the air multiplier ring. So you'll get better performance out of a blade that behaves closer to a compressor instead of a more traditional fan, which is why the original fan actually did better than expected.
I'm only one man but I was thinking it would be really cool to see the counter rotating dual fan concept applied to already successful fan designs. Also it would be cool to come up with a way to test static pressure
@6:06 I think if the intake extended downstream inside the tube it would create much more vacuum. Like a subwoofer port shape or velocity stack.
It was interesting to see the cyclone effect there at the end. Wonder if there isn't some way to make use of that effect somehow.
This is bar none the best looking smoke fan test.
How about putting the smoke in the fan up top, to see what it's pattern looks like coming out of that contraption with just clear air on the normal intake?
Definitily an interesting system... in a few spots you can see in the exit air stream different velocities of air, with the center looking like it's actually going slower than the outside.
Hydraulic miners use a small, high-pressure hose to squirt water into a larger hose to create a vacuum. It is placed near the intake of the vacuum hose and aimed as much as possible straight up the hose. The high speed under high pressure induces a flow in the larger opening, which then is able to suck up the bottom of the river bed, deposit it on a sluice, and let it exit further downstream, leaving any gold behind.
This kind of apparatus would benefit from the same kind of engineering. Otherwise, there just isn't enough pressure to induce an airflow. And if you could produce that kind of high-velocity pressure, you'd be wasting it on a bladeless fan because it would not perform as well just using the fan directly.
Great vid! It really does illustrate how much loss there is in a bladeless fan system. Every time a gas or fluid (air) changes direction it loses velocity.
Regards, Jas.
vk4fjgs
Rockhampton Queensland Australia
I love it when a plan comes together...dah dah dah da da daaah...
I think the air multiplier could be brilliant, if it was implemented correctly. Those venturi style air multipliers are typically operated by compressed air, and fans typically move air with a miniscule pressure differential, as opposed to compressing it.
Now, perhaps it would work with a compressor impeller, however I don't know whether or not the A 12 x 25 motor could effectively spin a compressor/impeller combo to the same rpm as it can a fan, but as for cooling, it's more effective to cool by moving air that had absorbed the heat, and displace with cooler air. As most of us know, compressed air is hotter initially hotter, thus negating the primary objective of cooling.
There is more to this, but this is already a book. Love the fan showdown, and follow-ups trying different methods such as this one.
Who else clicked the LIKE button before even watching 😂
If I had a pc. I would try to design a 120mm fan to work with with that thing and try to get a higher number then the t30.
I would love to see the smoke passed on through the fan itself and see the exhaust sort of speak :)
Okay, so looks like the Dyson bit needs a redesign on the entrance and sizing. I also wonder if your could redsign the vents from side to dyson? Maybe create a rotational vortex rather than throwing air in that direction. Might need a heavy angle. So many things to design!
This makes me want to knock together something using the high-flow centrifugal blowers that my IBM boxes use. They move a TON* of air, and coupled with the bladeless design would probably do some interesting thing.
*Like, one box in a rack powering up you can feel the breeze across the row.
there's also a slight forward and back on the shoulders if you pull out the sides of the chest
Have you tried printing the blameless part in resin? From one angle it looked like there was a small buffer of air, it could be print lines.
I am pleased with the flow pattern. It seems to be one of the least turbulent yet. But the speed just does not cut it. So I think the restrictions on the top and the outlet are doing it.
That said this design looks like one you can use for cooling yourself. Just like what the real thing was designed for.
It looks less turbulent because it is only the passive portion at the centre of the total flow that has smoke. Around it like an invisible protective tube is the actual flow from the fan.
Would love to see some vantec tornadoes. I used to run a pair of them a while back and my cpu always stayed at ambient.
Well now I wanna see the original bladeless fan scaled up and see how it does since it was better than the cheater at 80mm
You need a fan with fixed RPMs for these types of designs to work the way they are meant too. Any sort of overpressure created by the design or the fan itself only slows the RPM's down instead of creating any sort of positive secondary effect.
You would need a fan with variable amperage or a fixed RPM for these to work.
or just do PID with PWM and the tachometer pin of the fan. And arduino can do it and the innertia should keep it pretty stable.
I've been watching since the first series and I still can't think of anything but Abroad In Japan when that music comes on
I found this series recently and spent maybe 15 min trying to remember where I have heard the song before. It goos to hear it
You should hit up the slow mo guys and ask to borrow one of there cameras. It be amazing to watch the smoke move through here in slow mo. Maybe use food coloring or something to make different layers of different colors of smoke.
wow the flex on that acrylic, you night need to print out a bipod mount for heavier fans
Looking at the smoke test, this fan seems it would be better sucking from a heatsink than blowing into it. But it sould be mounted in a way that would not change the intake much...
"what does that look like in the smoke test?" stupid and i love it.
would be interesting to scale up the original 80mm blade to 120mm and see how it performs
LOL the acrylic was bowing just a little. You might need a thicker piece if this stuff keeps up! I wish it put some smoke in the top intake just to see how much of the flow is coming from there as well. Imagine two different smoke colors. LOL
Gotta hook up the blow side of a shop vac to that lol
If you want to see another goose egg, do a static pressure test ;)
Stack that outlet into inlet of another bladessed fan to see if anyhow can multiply airflow :D
What happens if you put an A12X25 on the “exhaust” portion of the blade less fan?
Have a pushing and pulling draft (would that make it not blade less?)
its never "bladeless" either way,, but it would kinda defeat the purpose of using airspeed and a venturi to suck more air if you gonna have another fan pulling.
The way the plexy was flexed cause of all the weight 😂
I'd like to see smoke entering the powered fans and how it's coming out inside the tube. I'm not sure if a smooth flow all around the inside of the tube is optimal, or if discrete jets distributed along the tube would be better.
You gotta start playing with transparent resin and filaments - even though it's not perfect (unless it's resin and polished), it's still a neat effect
looks like a meat grinder.
Also in 6:41 to 6:47 ish the tower has the illusion of having a shield :D
Cool test looks cool also but how would you ever mount this???
I wonder if putting 4 fans and stacks on the bladeless housing would increase performance or you hit a point of diminishing returns
Inland filament is legit. I use a few of their colors and really like the stuff.
Would it be possible to build a double or even triple bladeless? 3 stacks coming off the center all contributing to volume or air… wondering if additional air volume would have a linear or non-linear affect to the output cfm…
Since the first time I saw this I wondered what would happen if it were modified to have a fan mount inside (and completely ditch the side intake) in the center instead and have holes cutout on the front so that air can still get into the outer chamber so that Bernoulli action still happens.
Not exactly what you described but, in my garage I have an airgun (the sort you attach to a compressor and blow things off), the nozzle part is much wider than the other guns and it also has rather large diameter channels around the tip that pull outside air into the nozzle and out with the regular air coming from the compressor. The Pressure is about the same as when using a normal gun, but the force of the air due to the larger volume of it is significantly bigger. So kinda similar and works great, at least in the gun form.