Really sound advice. My thoughts after quite a few covers gigs using an HX Stomp. 1) have a volume pedal and use it at 80% (if you need a little gas for some reason, bump it to 90%… never go into the modeler during the gig). 2) have a limited number of stock patches by gain structure (ie: clean, gunned Fender deluxe, mid-gain Marshall) and only create a another one if it’s mandatory. Don’t kid yourself. The audience isn’t going to notice that you don’t have the breakup “perfect” for every song. It’s a total trap to worry about this. 3) make sure that those patches are dead perfect from a perceived volume POV. Best way to do that is to record your rehearsals into a DAW and listen. 4) put an EQ pedal outside the modeler for emergencies. Your goal is to never interact with the patches at the venue. If a little bit of something is needed do it outside the modeler at the EQ pedal. A Boss GE-7 is perfect. Modelers are great, but the temptation to make things complex is high and that complexity will not likely improve your performance
“Never go into the modeler during the gig…” Wise words. There’s plenty of potential for disaster if you do. But knowing how to access parameters and functions in a pinch can be helpful. Keeping in mind that you could be entering treacherous territory and throw more things out of whack than you’re actually correcting. An outboard EQ is a smart solution for really easy minor tweaks of levels in the heat of performance. Definitely worth considering. Thanks!
Total truth!! Keeping it as simple as possible will make your life, and the sound engineer's life, way easier I have found. I am a road warrior for a country artist and basically have 4 main patches that have varying amounts of compression, delay, distortion/gain, etc. They don't have to match the song exactly, no one notices that anyway, but as long as the tone is in the spirit of the song I am good. Then I have one setting I use for one heavy rock song we throw in at the end of the night for fun, and if the crowd is ready for it, lol. But it's really just 4 patches all night. This was a fabulous video that nailed the topic. Thanks!!
Thanks John. That set list sounds so familiar. I rarely use my modeller for gigs but all points valid. It’s incredible how much the volume is different and needs setting per venue per snapshot.
As a death metal guitarist I used a Peavey Bandit 112 and a Boss distortion pedal so I think a simple patch with a few stomp boxes on it would suffice 😂
I've found that, due to some of the limitations of DSP on HX Stomp, that adding a few outboard pedals is really nice too. While the outboard pedals I have are available in the HX for the most part, it does allow the freedom to add gain stacking and you can free up the HX to do what you bought it to do which for me is amp and cab modelling. The other really big change I've added lately is just a simple 3 or 4 db clean boost from the simple EQ pedal, which allows you to just raise your volume a notch for things like a solo or to be able to add a bit to a rhythm channel if needed for a more aggressive part in a cover set list. EQ pedals can also be really helpful for switching guitars. Like if you have a favorite humbucker guitar and a favorite single coil guitar you can add a EQ pedal so you'd set your base tone for the single coils and then for the humbucker you'd switch on the EQ pedal which can pull out some bass frequency or even just put a little bit of cut. The final thing I've started messing with is putting amp settings onto a footswitch, using this you can dial in an amp sound you like for clean and then use the amp settings to get all of the first stack of dirt by dialing in more gain and can also mess with the EQ of the amp all with one button. This is like having a second amp or a second channel on an amp where you can get most or all of your desired saturation level just from the amp sim which costs no DSP. With all of that, there is a lot of tonal variation available on a single preset and for me it's been fun to find out that a Marshall type amp has a really good clean sound if you let it and then you can step on a button and dial the gain to 11 and get everything you ever wanted from a dimed plexi.
This works well with certain FX, delays seem to work best for me on Helix. I always use my outboard wah. Because it sounds better to me and because it’s less DSP and I get to use the built in pedal in the Helix for something else.
As always, great stuff. In my opinion, the best, and most often overlooked, advice in this video is from 4:20 - 4:23. Many of us forget that essential tidbit of advice.
Thank you for this video. I was considering a patch per song. Now I will use clean, rhythm, dirty and solo. Plus 4 special song presets. Your channel has great content, keep it up.
Yes, agreed. You're on the gig - present your personality.. You were hired to contribute a sound/sounds that are copacetic with what you perceive to offer the best for THAT band and situation. Good video.
Yes, yes, and yes! 😂 I could not agree more, consistency is the most important thing - your point about switching amps and cabs hits the nail on the head. Even (and maybe especially,) in the world of modeling, every amp has a specific eq profile - I don’t think there exists a single sound man who would be willing to accommodate the fact that I might prefer an AC30 through an Engl 4/12 for one song, then a Bassman 410, then a Deluxe….and oh, wait the Dumble is awesome through the Mesa Recto 2/12 IR! (No one cares about my beautifully curated tone - and if I’m being a professional, neither should I.) Another REALLY important thing - reverb can and will wash the most lovely guitar sounds right out of the mix. I think of it like this: Reverb essentially simulates a given space, and I think is best used ONLY at home and in the recording studio. Why? We are already IN a space (the room containing the stage,) so there is no need to simulate another. The room has a sound, it can’t be escaped, so let’s use it to our advantage. Echo is another thing entirely, and as you said, works best when you can taper the effect in real time with an expression pedal (or reactive ducking.) Great stuff, important stuff, big boy stuff, JNC - well done!
@John: I am so late to your channel - my loss. But honestly, your totally pragmatic, common sense approach to using modern modelers is so incredibly useful and thought provoking. Most especially things like your observation that few to no bands will tour with Twins, JCM800s, 5150s, HiWatts, Mesa amps all at once. The whole concept that bands have core tones does sometimes get lost for those of us using modern modelers because of the old kid in a candy store thing - you got access to all these great sound, different things that the tempation is to use them all, all the time! Your comments and observations have indeed made me reconsider a bit how I will use my own modelers, especially as I am NOT a gigging pro musician. Yet for someone like yourself and all the other actual gigging pros, especially those doing cover work, I do think that one might need to spend that time to dial in distinct tones when playing covers from distinct sounding bands, right? For example, a basic U2 Edge tone is indeed going to vary greatly from a John Mayer/Bonamassa/BonJovi/EVH tone... At the end of the day, you're totally right - it really is about finding the real balance between what you actually need in terms of tones for your own unique musical needs. GREAT CONTENT John....For sure will be binge watching your vids immediately. THANKS!
Spot on, my clean was louder than my dirty, and the solo sound was also too quiet, during my first gig with the stomp xl. I also programmed in a master preset, then a few song specific presets around it. I used to use the fm3, but found it too hard to fix issues on the fly, so I landed on the stomp Xl.
I use an HXSXL and have 4 presets that cover the vast majority of use cases. They are all structured the same using snapshots -- 1 = clean, 2 = crunch rhythm, 3 = solo, 4 = solo + 3dB. I use a basic 2 button footswitch for the snaps and the other 6 footswitches for (typically) time based color effects. In front I run a volume/wah mini combo as my only outboard pedal. The footswitch editor mode is actually very cool for on-the-fly changes such as delay mix or delay subdivision. I run it into the FX Return of a Fender Mustang 3 ATM. I also have 2 other presets that are designed to run into the front of an amp as a complete pedalboard replacement. The rest of my presets are my previous iterations of these ideas. I used to only use the 6 onboard footswitches, for example, so my patches usually wouldn't have modulation. Sometimes I would use an HX footswitch to change gain settings on the amp sim as an ersatz "channel switch". Or flip flop between the lowest DSP clean amps (Supro) and another amp. I tried drive pedals in the loop, but the SNR isn't good enough so I dropped that idea and went primarily with amp parameter changes instead. With this rig I wanted to minimize tap dancing so the drive settings had to be snapshot or footswitch controllable. If I were to do it all over, I'd add a MIDI loop switcher and some drive pedals instead.
Int’l function band guitarist here using a stomp XL for fly dates There’s a few tablet apps (OnSong 2020, Set List Maker, ForScore) you can use to have a set list on screen and assign midi messages to songs.. tap on a song title & it brings up the patch! That solved the main issue with patch-per-song method for me which is that the song order never stays like it says on the set list Really enjoying patch-per-song life now. I think it’s also good if you’re going down that route to have a few favourited core amp sounds that you know sit well in the mix, that you use across the patches, and just tweak, change the fx etc to match the song. For the aforementioned sound-guy reasons. Saves on programming time as well ✌🏼
Great! Drop it in the folder please! I'm just starting out in a wedding band and need to set up my rig. Testing yours and tweaking it for my taste (wich probably won't be very different) would make things easier for sure! Thanks John, love the content you post here!
What's great about modellers is that you can use them however you want. I use preset-per-song for church playing, because I need delay sync to tempo almost all the time, and it's crucial to minimize pedal dancing. Song starts, I use snapshots, song ends, next song, repeat. But if I had 40 songs to be picked at random - no way I'm gonna scroll through the list :P so of course I'd try to consolidate.
That's where an app for sheet music like forScore or Bandhelper comes in handy. Select presets when the song in your sheet music app is selected via PC and CC messages send by the app.
I’ve been playing guitar over 30 years. Always been a tube amp with a handful of stomp boxes guy. After a bit of a break, I was recruited into an active gigging band. On the recommendation of a fellow player, I bought the Stomp XL. I gotta say, I do love it. Everything you’ve said in here makes total sense. I’m basically treating it like an stomp rig. Running through the return of a combo or just as a pedal board in front of a head. I keep my preset as lean as possible and stick with it for the rehearsal or gig. My time spent using DAW based modeling broke me of getting lost in the weeds of slathering on too many effects. Keep it simple and check your levels!
I use my Quad Cortex for our gigs....we only play about once every other month. I sort of "simplified" my rig to 4 presets: A clean tone, a Marshall tone, a preset for bass guitar, and a special preset for a Metallica song. So really, a clean preset and a Marshall sound, and the two other presets are sort of specialized. It really does make things easier.
I'm using a PodGo into a Catalyst 100, best setup I've tried so far. It replaced a Line 6 500HD rack controlled by a floorboard into a carvin power amp and a carvin cabinet that was marketed as a second FR cabinet for their acoustic amp. That system worked well for a few years, but was a bit much to setup and haul. The PodGo is simpler and just feels more responsive. Also the IR's are much better. I love the catalyst open back sound and I can also ditch the PodGo for practice if I want. I have been using modelers since about 2010.
I’ve just purchased my first modeler and have not gigged with it yet, so really appreciate this advice. I also play keys and I’ve changed from having individual sounds (per song) on my NORD to having more general sounds because it’s just a nightmare changing sounds per song. At the very least, have a couple of general patches you can quickly jump to quickly.
I do the one preset per song method (Quad Cortex). It works really well as we’re a rock cover band playing all kinds of artists. I level out all the presets using a reference patch. I find it really easy and quick to switch to the next song and then I use the Scene Mode on the lower switches to change sounds within the preset. I do have one master patch for when I’m just jamming with mates and that preset has four basic tones (clean, crunch, heavy and lead).
I have a Helix, and I use it much the same as you do. I treat it like I would if I had the ultimate guitar rig with maybe two amps in stereo and a bunch of effects on a pedal board. Helix enabled me to dial in the most _crushing_ tone which has become my tone of choice. Then it's all snapshots. If I need variations that are not on one of the 8 snapshots per preset, I just send the whole thing to the next preset and dial in whatever different stuff I need. I totally agree; it's much more important to me to use Helix for the creation of my own tone & then to use the living _shit_ outta that tone🤟🤣😂
Great video John! Keeping preset #s limited helps a ton. Keeping the same cab IR helps a lot as well for overall consistency. It's also more realistic, bands don't gig with 10 different amps, cabs and pedalboards! I believe that the most important tip that often gets over looked is to dial in your sounds at gig volumes (100-110dB) so you can compensate for Fletcher-Munson, and also balance the perceived volume of clean vs distorted at those volumes (it drastically differs from DI/FOH/IEMs). And when you're with the band it helps balance the EQ you perceive at home vs live (rolling off bass below 80-120Hz, cutting highs between 5kHz-10kHz to taste).
I play in a covers band in the midland. I use the helix and tend to have a “General” patch and a number of specific ones for songs like seven nation etc. A key thing for me is that I run the lighting from the controller so often duplicate the “general” patch with different midi commands set for different songs (ie different lighting scenes). I agree though, generally I try and keep them minimal as it’s a pain to be checking and changing lots of patches. Great video and excellent playing, keep it up!
Great video! I've been playing in my current cover band for about a year and a half now and was faced with the same dilemma. I'm using a Helix XT and started using two patches (back and forth) for the entire gig. Even at two patches, it was challenging. I don't know why anyone would want to use 30! I now play an entire gig (2 or 3 sets) on one patch. I use two dedicated amps (clean and high gain) with one cabinet (I use a FRFR). Four snapshots, Four effects (boost, OD, Fuzz, Pitch Shift). My delays, chorus, etc. are but into the snapshots. I'm thinking about posting a TH-cam video demo and adding the preset free to the Line 6 Helix page.
I am one of those people that do a preset per songs haha I have two main reasons for this: each preset has the different snapshots of a song that sends MIDI commands to control my bands lights, and the other second reason being to somewhat justify the cost of investing into a Helix. I didn’t want to buy a $1600 modeler and limit myself using only 1-3 amps. You are correct that it takes a lot of work to sit and go through each preset and make sure volume is consistent each setting, but damn is it fun to try and tone match and get a great sound for each song
A Helix LT is only $1000 and has almost a hundred of amps available. HX Stomp is half that price but less inputs ana outputs and switches abs no volume/ each pedal built in though.
I do a fair amount of musical theater gigs and often have several instruments for a show - electric, steel and nylon acoustic, banjo, mandolin, etc. Most of the time it’s at least two presets with an A/B switch to change instruments.
Brilliant insight john, the analogy of lugging a new amp / cab on mid set is great (dont do it..!). I have a pod go (limited DSP), so have the same block copied to match vol, EQ and then extra presets (only a couple) to change the pedals between presets. Then have a couple snapshots for extra gain if needed. Many forget the actuals guitar vol/tone for getting extra bite or warmth and i actually use the coil taps on my guitars too. So these all help. Love the channel john...👍
Great tips! I've tried the preset-per-song and I needed a cheat sheet to keep it all straight. I like your solution much better. On another note, Jonny Lee recently posted a video where he showed how he changes mic placement per snapshot for different tones. I would love to get your thoughts on that and how you might use it. Thanks so much, John and please place in the folder.
If you make all of your presets based off the same rig with minimal changes to the chain it keeps things a lot more doable. It works best with a setlist set in stone so you're not searching with your feet in between songs. For a less structured set you want a simple set-up.
Great points to be made. A local engineer told me several years ago how difficult it is to run sound with guitarists that use a bunch of different patches/presets on a live show. It winds up being to the detriment because of a constantly changing landscape.
This is exactly what I do. I use mostly one goutar and one prset for the thole gig. I might use an acoustic patch (with an electric to acoustic IR) and maybe a dark/Lone Star vs. brigher Soldano patch for single vs double coil pickups. These patches have all the effects I need on the same switches. I use some snapshots, but prefer to use stomp mode to mix and match the effects I want for the moment. I don't necessarily play songs the same way every time, but do try to have a consistent, predictable guitar tone from song to song. That is, I use a modeler essentially the same way I would a pedalboard and amp/cabinet to get my guitar tone as I fit it into the songs. Great video John, good insight into the practical use of modern gear.
I'm guilty of preset-per-song for my cover band, using around 50 presets at the moment. As John mentioned the axefx global blocks make it possible to share blocks settings across all the presets. I have a single amp block and cab so I can change the core amp sound globally across all presets as needed per show. All the presets do for me is make it possible to more carefully fine tune subtle details like delay repeats per song section and scenes make it possible to toggle many effects with a single press. This for me is better than tap dancing to enable multiple effects when needed. The biggest pain is the constant reordering of the setlist from show to show as I like to set the presets sequentially and program a switch to navigate forward and back. I also have the "kitchen sink" preset at the ready for when somebody calls an audible and I don't want to waste time searching for the correct preset. Probably more work than necessary but it can be fun if you enjoy programming. Now if only I could play anywhere near as well as John. Love the channel!
Agree. I take a similar approach. One main tone with 4 snapshots; clean, clean lead, dirty, & dirty lead covers a bulk of the stuff. I have a few presets with unique modulations like Leslie, or Chorus, etc. Finally, if the song has significant tone changes within a song that is not standard, I’ll build a unique preset. For example, on Comfortably Numb I have the main tone & then shift to a different snapshot to emulate the strings and then a full on distorted delay lead for the two solos.
Great ideas! I’m in a genre cover band covering five or six songs per artist so I have a preset per band. I do find I’m doing more tap dancing than I’d like, especially while singing.
I gig with Pod Go into FX return of a Blackstar HT Club 40. I have 1 or 2 "main" presets for the 90% of songs and then for a few songs where the changes in tone and parts of the song make more sense to be played with a specific preset called the "Song XYZ" and then use the snapshots 1 - 4 to change for parts of the song that needs alot of changes in tone per section of the song etc...
Great tips. I use a Mooer Ge200 into a Peavy Valveking 100 receiver effect port. I write and play in a metal band. I treat it just like an amp and pedal board. Rhythm tone, tap to turn on solo effects, clean channel. It feels consistent. One thing I did was run my pedal board into an audio interface, open a DAW, check the incoming levels from the effects unit. Try and match them without going into the red. Fine tune them by ear as cleans will always sound louder, but now I have a better idea of how much my signal gets boosted while soloing, so soundguys do turn you down during a solo and then forget to turn you back up. Not my fav gig.
I recently bought a Quad Cortex and I’ve been gigging using one main preset which pretty much does it all. I’ve still got to work on relative volumes and finding mids that cut through but it’s coming together well. Previously, I’ve been using my FM3 for gigs. With one band I had a preset per song dialled in, whilst in my other band, I used one preset. Ultimately, one main preset is the easier solution. There’s a certain novelty in having unique sounds for each song, and for the odd song it’s great, but in general I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Audiences don’t give a shit and other musicians just think you’re up your own arse. And then there’s the situation where the singer swaps the set around and you end up pulling muscles while you dance back and forth trying to find the right preset. As for my tuppence worth on the relative merits of both units, Fractal have the sounds and the depth but for ease of use and physical design, the QC is hard to beat. I’m not sure I prefer one over the other but if anybody wants to give me a H90 for my fm3…
Solid advice. I use a master preset or 'kitchen sink' [reset as well. I have a couple levels of gain, and easy access solo boost, and a handful of effects. I sort of use it like I have an amps footswitch on a board with some effects... old school. I use a few scenes, but mostly do things manually. Also, for the one or two songs that require a different preset, those presets are copies of the master preset, with effects I know that I wont use for that song removed and replaced with what I need for that one song. That way the sound is consistent. I gigged a Helix starting in 2015/16 using the fx return of a tube head and cab. Eventually, I got tired of lugging all that around and went to FRFR (Friedman) or, if the gig allows a PS170 and Marshall 412 cab (usually outdoors). I don't mind the FRFR for it's high end, but I find aggressive hi cuts help. I've been with Fractal now for a couple years (FM3 & 9) and really love modeling. I don't ever see myself going back to tube amps & pedals again, as much as I love them. I remember in the early days, sound guys looked super skeptical when I showed up with a modeler. Now they embrace it LOL. The times have definitely changed.
Lol, been there. When I started with my Helix, I had a lot of Presets for different songs. And ran into the same problems with volume balance. Now I only use one Preset. Got 4 Snapshots (Clean, Push, Overdrive and Lead. Rest of the switches are stomp boxes. Like Chorus, etc. It helps to be able to turn delay and the OD pedal on and off. I use one switch as a volume boost (+6 dB), so that I can also play leads with clean and push snapshots. The expression pedal is volume pedal per default, helps to easily adjust the volume if needed (especially to turn it back sometimes). And in some songs, volume fades are great. 2nd pedal mode is a Wah, which I sometimes need. Another important factor, often overlooked, is the tone knob of the guitar. Especially if I need different clean sounds, it sometimes helps to turn it back to ~50% or so. For a softer, jazzy sound. With the recent 3.5 version, I finally managed to use the Fender Twin Reverb for the clean Snapshot, and Ventoux for the rest. This was a big improvement for me personally.
Great points I will definitely check out. I’ve slipped into the Helix rabbit hole of over use of presets and it’s often been frustrating on the live gigs I’ve been playing.
You mention in the video how you have gotten away from the FRFR thing. I'm curious if you think the new 3.5 cab engine will have any impact on future Powercab Plus products? I have no experience with these but I can't help but believe that it could make a big difference. Thanks!
Ih crickey, I thought it was just me having things changing all the time. Every gig is a struggle (and distraction) when I'm constantly fighting the damn amps/effects/modellers. I stick to four presets, clean and jangly, breakup, crunchy and mental. So this video is a godsend in terms of timing.
Good stuff. I play professionally and I use maybe 7 or 8 models but I don't use them all every gig. If I do a Gary Moore song I use my Gary Moore preset. If I do a Boston song I use my Boston preset but everything else is generic so it can be used on anything. I also carry 2 guitars, 1 with humbuckers and one with singles and not every preset is good for both so I've designed programs for my singles and use the Matchless-like and Plexi programs for the humbuckers. Having a single preset per song is way too much work. I'm also a soundman and that's a sonic nightmare. If I had somebody do that I'd just ride the fader and leave everything else neutral.....you can't chase that. As far as volumes however the only thing I use my expression pedal on my floor for is volume. I don't use a wah and if I want to clean up the dirt I just back off the volume knob but all my presets are tuned to the way I want them so they're left alone.
Keep it simple is a good approach. I used to have one preset per song and it was a bit of a nightmare. I use a Helix with a Variax, so my tone options a pretty much limitless, but what I have now is a 'go to' patch which covers probably 70% of the set list then 2 or 3 band/ song specific patches e.g. I have an Oasis patch because we usually play 3 or 4 Oasis tunes in the set, some of which have very specific tone changes e.g. What's the story morning glory goes from a pitch shifted riff on a semi hollow on neck position into higher volume solo (no pitch) with guitar in neck position back to chorus tone with guitar back in bridge...it's just easier to do it in snapshots. That said, most of the rest of the songs are on my one good 'generic' patch.
"The bride's mother is screaming at you because you fucked up the solo in Robbie Williams "Angels" - I've played those gigs. Was worth watching this video just for that :)
Nice vid. I would say the most important thing is to level match your different stages of gain and then give yourself the ability to boost 3db on any gain stage.
the use case matters. in a cover band, i have 5 basic patches (first few patches in my set list for easy access), but those patches are tweaked for every song. so i wind up with a patch per song. within any song, i might have two other fx. for instance run to you by bryan adams. i want a single coil clean sound at the beginning and a heavier more distorted tone when the pre-chorus kicks in. no complaints. always get compliments. not difficult to manage either.
Concert guitarists change their guitars every so many songs to change the pickup sound (darker / brighter) for a specific song. But yes the amps / vans stay the same and just they add/ remove effects per song as needed. Snapshots in the Helix is a game changer to keep it simple and have less toe tapping.
When doing a four hour gig with 15 songs per hour this is the smart approach! I think the same sort of thing could apply for a church service with four/five songs with individual song presets, which is how I use Helix. All my individual presets are built from a "master preset" that has been thoroughly tested in several services to make sure it works for gain, tone, and snapshot types (clean, drive, solo, swells, etc). I only have three different master presets for the different amp and pedal combinations that I use, they are all gain matched to each other and between snapshot types so the sound engineer is always happy (with me, at least...). All I change is the name of the song, the tempo, and the starting snapshot. I also move the snapshots I'll use for the song to the bottom row for easy access. This means ultra fast transitions and consistent gain and tone. If something changes mid-service I can use almost any preset for any song just by tapping in the required tempo.
Many guys who use modelers or profilers live also think of having something to give stage volume (either standard guitar cab or FRFR) and avoiding different preamp/cab combinations throughout a gig. How different or better is that compared to using a 1x12 cab, a Joyo Bantamp, and a couple of pedals? Despite the absence of a direct output to be sent to the board, I believe the amount of money spent on a nice modeler and some monitoring cab will tend to be more expensive than the hybrid amp and 1x12. Therefore, is it still worth it? I mean, since using several amps and cab combinations does not look feasible, is it actually handier than a portable and straightforward guitar amp? For live use, it only makes sense to me if the cab can be avoided, which does not seem to be an inspiring thing. Thoughts? Thanks for the great videos!
Exactly right, I think the cab on stage (or FRFR etc) is pretty essential for it to be anything like a traditional rig. The modeling approach is often a little more convenient for like you say going to FOH, and also things like snapshots etc can use less tap dancing to change tones?
@@johnnathancordyThanks a lot for the attention! Really like your content. On a second thought, maybe the more effects one may need, the more advantageous it may be (when many ifferebr delays or modulation types are needed for instance). All the best. Cheers from Rio de Janeiro- Brazil.
For live, I typically do per song for originals. Setlist I'd usually around an hour and it helps to double as the setlist on stage with the helix scribble strips
I make a preset for every song. But they’re almost all the same “Base” tone. Then I can use presets to modify the main sound for each song. I can adjust delays, drive, verb etc on a snapshot by snapshot basis. Works really well for me, and it’s not like we have 1,028 songs in the set.
I have meticulously built 3-4 presets per guitar (electric, bass & acoustic) by Amp type (Plexi, Twin, Bassman, PRS, Revv).. then use those for everything. This is unless the song has some rich ambient specific need, then those are preset per song (typically in worship).
I tried the stomp xl for the first time on reherrsal. What a disaster. I forgot the xlr cable so had to borrow one. If your changing from tube amp to modeller mage sure you have the correct cables and spare cables. Then the sounds via the line out to the foh were nothing like the sounds of set up via headphones. Live playing at volume increases the low and high end which needs to be taken into account when at in domestic room level or headphone level. The third problem I had when using snapshots was accidentally pressing the wrong footswitch this changing preset to another snapshot patch that id been experimenting with that had a much higher volume and crazy modulation. Needless to say mid song, all hell broke loose and i had to stop to work out what had happened. To make matters worse, later in the night, I did the same again like a really bad joke. I will now create an empty preset before and after my snapshot preset for live playing. Why can't the stomp have amps that will sound real and a constant volume without the need to add a compressor for more of a natural tube feel and sustain and having to cut the low and high frequencies. At this moment, I'm not impressed and contemplating more gas on more expensive tube amps
Great tips! I have my Helix LT setup similar. A: Rhythm B: Crunch C: Clean D: Lead. I then use my top buttons for my stomps. It makes the most sense to me, especially for live playing.
Great tip…..I used to make presets for each song and that just got to be too complicated. I had to reorder set list etc. now I keep one or two and use snap shots changes needed but keeps my core amp setup sound and two to three outboard effects as needed. Really much more comfortable now.
I went through playing rented amp+cab rig, then my own rack pre to a return of a rented amp + cab, then preamp+ cab sim, and then HX stomp. Pity it doesn't have global blocks, so I have basically one preset with clean/crunch/lead snapshots copied to every single song, bec all of them (with exceptions, of course) require some different effects, such as big lush reverb or whammy whatnot. Also each song preset has different bpm set. For each song I have specific effects set to a footswitches just in case, but basically it is all ruled via midi, so I don't have to step on buttons every time.
Great advice as usual. I have also tried and failed with the one-patch-per-song method. It’s a nightmare. Depending on your modeller (I was using an Atomic Amplifire AA12) it’s a feat of memory if you need to switch the set list. This simpler method seems much more logical. I might even try the AA12 again, having metaphorically thrown it against the wall a few times and given up. Also, there are rumours of an update to the Mac firmware. Finally.
I dont gig, but imagine building a tone with amp+cab on the helix and then you arrive at the gig and they plug your helix output into one of those combo amp+cab, I'd assume that would be a huge problem no?
You say that back in the day these guys don't change their amp and cab or drum set during the gig and that's true, but mostly because it wouldn't be practical. Now days, it is reasonably practical. That being said. I find that I can get by with about 4 presets. Sometimes a preset is created for specific song. I'm my case, when we cover Like A Stone , that one get's its own preset but generally everything else can be done with maybe 2 or 3 other presets. I have maybe 15 folders of presets and some preset are created to mimic the original guitar tone as best possible but I use them for reference when setting up my 3 or 4 presets that will be used for a gig.
I do have a rig per song, 34 songs. I think you are right though. Trying to balance the levels between songs was something I still need to sort, plan was to go at it with a proper db meter. I think I’m going to condense to around 4 presets.
I get wher you are coming from the limited amount of presets to set up (which I'm doing so myself), but it's a challenge playing in a cover or function band when you are doing songs by different artists, although analogies of original artists not changing their sounds couldn't really be compared against playing numerous different songs from different artists. The snapshots are brilliant in offering the ability to go from a clean snap shot to then two different stages of OD and then a lead setting.
Hi, this may or may not be a good place to pose the question. I run an HX Stomp on a board with a pedal switcher and some analog pedals, and have presets for both 4 cable with my and straight out to power amp. I've tried loading IRs to only the right output, but I believe the problem I'm getting is that when I run left out only, it forces of blend of my intended output and the IR load from the other side. I only occasionally want to use the iR aspect. Would it make sense to just plug a dummy 1/4" plug into the R out, so that my left out doesn't pull stereo? Hope that makes sense. Thank you so much for these videos! I have a lot more appreciation for how the Stomp can be used in the "real world", not just sitting at home.
John, I was wondering if you normally run your modeler in mono for gigs or do you go stereo? I'm using a Helix feeding into the EFX return of an amp I just on stage, but just in mono. I'm wondering if it is worth the effort to try to run my setup in stereo for gigs.
Just got the HX Stomp XL and still learning. Question for all - would you use an amp and cab in the preset if you were sending it to the front of another amp on stage? The equipment at the bar I play are set up so that I can’t easily connect to the return on the stage amp and forget about the 4 cable method. Should I just use the stomp as a pedal board and skip the amp modeler given this set up? Thanks!
i have purchase your general preset bundle but d ont really know how to use it and when you say your going to put it in the folder... it's gonna be witch one ? thanks for keep doing your video !
I think Joe bonomossa does use different amps on different songs, like he'll parent dumble with a tweed on some stuff and then play other amps for other songs. Your point still stands though. that guy is extravagant, working musicians can't gig with a collection of dumbles and vintage tweeds (and bursts) worthy of of a full scale museum exhibit.
I have a patch with my delays, dual irs, and reverbs. Then I run all my drives before the stomp and have a compressor seperate, as well as a Jhs artificial blonde. To me it’s my amp sim and delays.
I'm also on a preset per song basis and my iPad music reader switches the presets on the FM3 for me. Doing all tones in one preset means I actually need to know which tones I'm using for an entire setlist. I have no idea! Being in the P&W realm we use quite a wide range of tones from the ethereal to funky to heavy drives some need precise timing. And we do some top40 cover tunes as well. Can't really play John Mayer without his tones. Not much place for JM tones in P&W, either. I do have a problem keeping the mix consistent, though. we run IEMs now and I'm getting the comment that I'm fluctuating too much. I do run the same amp and cabs quite often so I'll have a look at the global blocks again. This would take quite some rethinking to do all songs in one preset. Also my drummer uses my tempo light to count of the songs. So we at least start somewhere appropriately. I do use the same blocks for most of my presets.
Couple questions. Can you make a bass sound like an octave up or like a 12-string bass like Jermey from Pearljam , also can you detune a specific string like drop the E string to D ?
Hi Jonathan. In your opinion for Strats, which is the compressor the suites it best for controlled but not killing all of the transients. I am fininding this the hardest part to replicate an analog compressor. Thank you . Your videos are amazing .
Just bought the presets pack from Gum road to get the JonnyGiggs35HXEX tone mentioned. But it's not in there. How do I get it? I love the sound in the video!
Great info and thoughts on simplifying modeler use. With so many options, it's easy to make things very complex quickly. The point you made about knowing the sounds you need (e.g., set list songs), and using your specific modeler to make it happen as simply as possible for live navigation is key IMO. FWIW, my first modeler was a Vox ToneLab (the first tabletop version), and I've used modelers on and off ever since - most recently a GT1000 which I'm selling, and now only use my SY-1000 for direct modeling. Currently, my versatile rig is HX Effects + Catalyst 100 using 4CM and MIDI to control the amp channel and amp boost on/off. The rig for "My Sound" is much simpler: a Marshall Origin 50C or at home either Origin 50H full stack or Engl 100W half stack with a Source Audio EQ2 in front. My current focus is making a small computer rig around my Blue Cat Audio Axiom and KMI SoftStep2. Looking for a USB MIDI expression pedal to complete this rig. Cheers!
🤣 I hear you. The transition seems rather intimidating, but I think the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. I’m moving toward using my PodGo more for gigs and moving away from individual pedals. I haven’t brought an amp to a gig in about six or seven years, so I’ve already gotten over that hurdle. My sound man sends me back what I need in my monitor and I’m good to go. I’m pretty low-maintenance. I’m working on getting a few good, flexible presets set up and properly balanced and also, as suggested by Mr Cordy, making absolutely sure that I am able to make changes on the unit itself when necessary and not relying on the edit software through my laptop. I found out the hard way (on a gig) that it is critical to be able to navigate through the controls on the unit itself! There’s nothing like amps and stompboxes…there’s MORE! …and at the same time, maybe a little less gear to carry 🤣
@@nekkon1989. Blues gig or classic rock gig…I’ve actually done a few of those with a SINGLE CHANNEL, low-wattage class A amp. I would just ride the volume knob all night. Such fantastic simplicity was great. However, party band covers call for more variety of tones and effects. If you want to get a gig and keep a gig in a cover band that plays weddings, private parties, corporate functions, festivals etc, riding the volume knob plugged straight into a single channel amp won’t cut it. A two channel amp won’t cut it either. I have nothing against old school simplicity. In fact, I love it. But I’ve got bills to pay, so the right tools for the job are essential. You can’t realistically ask a carpenter to build a house with a potato peeler, right? Be well!
Yeah man…. I have an HX stomp and I absolutely love it. At home, I use all the amp modeling for practice or recording and on a gig I use it as a Swiss Army knife effects unit after some nice drive pedals in front of a decent tube amp. There are SO many variables trying to use it as an all in one solution and I’ve never had much luck. This is doubly true when you’re playing a gig with another guitar player who is playing a tube amp.
I have a few midi controlled pedals with my stomp xl. I use different presets for etch song, is has to do with lots of different guitar tones I use and midi comands to ableton. but its the same clean amp and cabs for all the songs
I think that using different rigs on different presets is totally okay as long as it sounds good. Yes it is true that in real life you remain with a consistent rig, however, one of the main points of a modeler is to precisely have the ability of swapping rigs all the time. Again, it all depends on your soundcheck to each preset to be used and you'll sound impressive.
![The WORST thing about using HX Stomp Live [and MOST Digital Modelers]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m5VWfKA0UDE/mqdefault.jpg)
!["สนธิ" ห่วงมีขบวนการปกป้อง "ทนายตั้ม" : [THE MESSAGE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2GQNp3EoMc0/mqdefault.jpg)
I think I speak for most of us when I say that we pretty much want you to drop all of your presets in the folder.
Really sound advice. My thoughts after quite a few covers gigs using an HX Stomp.
1) have a volume pedal and use it at 80% (if you need a little gas for some reason, bump it to 90%… never go into the modeler during the gig).
2) have a limited number of stock patches by gain structure (ie: clean, gunned Fender deluxe, mid-gain Marshall) and only create a another one if it’s mandatory. Don’t kid yourself. The audience isn’t going to notice that you don’t have the breakup “perfect” for every song. It’s a total trap to worry about this.
3) make sure that those patches are dead perfect from a perceived volume POV. Best way to do that is to record your rehearsals into a DAW and listen.
4) put an EQ pedal outside the modeler for emergencies. Your goal is to never interact with the patches at the venue. If a little bit of something is needed do it outside the modeler at the EQ pedal. A Boss GE-7 is perfect.
Modelers are great, but the temptation to make things complex is high and that complexity will not likely improve your performance
“Never go into the modeler during the gig…”
Wise words. There’s plenty of potential for disaster if you do. But knowing how to access parameters and functions in a pinch can be helpful. Keeping in mind that you could be entering treacherous territory and throw more things out of whack than you’re actually correcting.
An outboard EQ is a smart solution for really easy minor tweaks of levels in the heat of performance. Definitely worth considering. Thanks!
Great advice, John. We'd love to see some live gig video!
Total truth!! Keeping it as simple as possible will make your life, and the sound engineer's life, way easier I have found. I am a road warrior for a country artist and basically have 4 main patches that have varying amounts of compression, delay, distortion/gain, etc. They don't have to match the song exactly, no one notices that anyway, but as long as the tone is in the spirit of the song I am good. Then I have one setting I use for one heavy rock song we throw in at the end of the night for fun, and if the crowd is ready for it, lol. But it's really just 4 patches all night. This was a fabulous video that nailed the topic. Thanks!!
Thanks for the explanation of channel volume, that was really helpful. Also, the effects in that unit (especially the flanger) sound wonderful!
Thanks John. That set list sounds so familiar. I rarely use my modeller for gigs but all points valid. It’s incredible how much the volume is different and needs setting per venue per snapshot.
As a death metal guitarist I used a Peavey Bandit 112 and a Boss distortion pedal so I think a simple patch with a few stomp boxes on it would suffice 😂
I've found that, due to some of the limitations of DSP on HX Stomp, that adding a few outboard pedals is really nice too. While the outboard pedals I have are available in the HX for the most part, it does allow the freedom to add gain stacking and you can free up the HX to do what you bought it to do which for me is amp and cab modelling. The other really big change I've added lately is just a simple 3 or 4 db clean boost from the simple EQ pedal, which allows you to just raise your volume a notch for things like a solo or to be able to add a bit to a rhythm channel if needed for a more aggressive part in a cover set list. EQ pedals can also be really helpful for switching guitars. Like if you have a favorite humbucker guitar and a favorite single coil guitar you can add a EQ pedal so you'd set your base tone for the single coils and then for the humbucker you'd switch on the EQ pedal which can pull out some bass frequency or even just put a little bit of cut. The final thing I've started messing with is putting amp settings onto a footswitch, using this you can dial in an amp sound you like for clean and then use the amp settings to get all of the first stack of dirt by dialing in more gain and can also mess with the EQ of the amp all with one button. This is like having a second amp or a second channel on an amp where you can get most or all of your desired saturation level just from the amp sim which costs no DSP. With all of that, there is a lot of tonal variation available on a single preset and for me it's been fun to find out that a Marshall type amp has a really good clean sound if you let it and then you can step on a button and dial the gain to 11 and get everything you ever wanted from a dimed plexi.
This works well with certain FX, delays seem to work best for me on Helix. I always use my outboard wah. Because it sounds better to me and because it’s less DSP and I get to use the built in pedal in the Helix for something else.
As always, great stuff. In my opinion, the best, and most often overlooked, advice in this video is from 4:20 - 4:23. Many of us forget that essential tidbit of advice.
Thank you for this video. I was considering a patch per song. Now I will use clean, rhythm, dirty and solo. Plus 4 special song presets. Your channel has great content, keep it up.
Yes, agreed. You're on the gig - present your personality.. You were hired to contribute a sound/sounds that are copacetic with what you perceive to offer the best for THAT band and situation. Good video.
Yes, yes, and yes! 😂
I could not agree more, consistency is the most important thing - your point about switching amps and cabs hits the nail on the head. Even (and maybe especially,) in the world of modeling, every amp has a specific eq profile - I don’t think there exists a single sound man who would be willing to accommodate the fact that I might prefer an AC30 through an Engl 4/12 for one song, then a Bassman 410, then a Deluxe….and oh, wait the Dumble is awesome through the Mesa Recto 2/12 IR! (No one cares about my beautifully curated tone - and if I’m being a professional, neither should I.)
Another REALLY important thing - reverb can and will wash the most lovely guitar sounds right out of the mix. I think of it like this: Reverb essentially simulates a given space, and I think is best used ONLY at home and in the recording studio. Why? We are already IN a space (the room containing the stage,) so there is no need to simulate another. The room has a sound, it can’t be escaped, so let’s use it to our advantage. Echo is another thing entirely, and as you said, works best when you can taper the effect in real time with an expression pedal (or reactive ducking.)
Great stuff, important stuff, big boy stuff, JNC - well done!
“Healthy relationship between the clean and the overdrive tones…” That’s going in the guitar tone thesaurus!
@John: I am so late to your channel - my loss. But honestly, your totally pragmatic, common sense approach to using modern modelers is so incredibly useful and thought provoking. Most especially things like your observation that few to no bands will tour with Twins, JCM800s, 5150s, HiWatts, Mesa amps all at once.
The whole concept that bands have core tones does sometimes get lost for those of us using modern modelers because of the old kid in a candy store thing - you got access to all these great sound, different things that the tempation is to use them all, all the time! Your comments and observations have indeed made me reconsider a bit how I will use my own modelers, especially as I am NOT a gigging pro musician.
Yet for someone like yourself and all the other actual gigging pros, especially those doing cover work, I do think that one might need to spend that time to dial in distinct tones when playing covers from distinct sounding bands, right? For example, a basic U2 Edge tone is indeed going to vary greatly from a John Mayer/Bonamassa/BonJovi/EVH tone...
At the end of the day, you're totally right - it really is about finding the real balance between what you actually need in terms of tones for your own unique musical needs.
GREAT CONTENT John....For sure will be binge watching your vids immediately. THANKS!
Spot on, my clean was louder than my dirty, and the solo sound was also too quiet, during my first gig with the stomp xl. I also programmed in a master preset, then a few song specific presets around it. I used to use the fm3, but found it too hard to fix issues on the fly, so I landed on the stomp Xl.
I use an HXSXL and have 4 presets that cover the vast majority of use cases. They are all structured the same using snapshots -- 1 = clean, 2 = crunch rhythm, 3 = solo, 4 = solo + 3dB. I use a basic 2 button footswitch for the snaps and the other 6 footswitches for (typically) time based color effects. In front I run a volume/wah mini combo as my only outboard pedal. The footswitch editor mode is actually very cool for on-the-fly changes such as delay mix or delay subdivision. I run it into the FX Return of a Fender Mustang 3 ATM.
I also have 2 other presets that are designed to run into the front of an amp as a complete pedalboard replacement.
The rest of my presets are my previous iterations of these ideas. I used to only use the 6 onboard footswitches, for example, so my patches usually wouldn't have modulation. Sometimes I would use an HX footswitch to change gain settings on the amp sim as an ersatz "channel switch". Or flip flop between the lowest DSP clean amps (Supro) and another amp.
I tried drive pedals in the loop, but the SNR isn't good enough so I dropped that idea and went primarily with amp parameter changes instead. With this rig I wanted to minimize tap dancing so the drive settings had to be snapshot or footswitch controllable. If I were to do it all over, I'd add a MIDI loop switcher and some drive pedals instead.
Int’l function band guitarist here using a stomp XL for fly dates
There’s a few tablet apps (OnSong 2020, Set List Maker, ForScore) you can use to have a set list on screen and assign midi messages to songs.. tap on a song title & it brings up the patch!
That solved the main issue with patch-per-song method for me which is that the song order never stays like it says on the set list
Really enjoying patch-per-song life now. I think it’s also good if you’re going down that route to have a few favourited core amp sounds that you know sit well in the mix, that you use across the patches, and just tweak, change the fx etc to match the song. For the aforementioned sound-guy reasons. Saves on programming time as well
✌🏼
Great! Drop it in the folder please! I'm just starting out in a wedding band and need to set up my rig. Testing yours and tweaking it for my taste (wich probably won't be very different) would make things easier for sure! Thanks John, love the content you post here!
What's great about modellers is that you can use them however you want. I use preset-per-song for church playing, because I need delay sync to tempo almost all the time, and it's crucial to minimize pedal dancing. Song starts, I use snapshots, song ends, next song, repeat. But if I had 40 songs to be picked at random - no way I'm gonna scroll through the list :P so of course I'd try to consolidate.
That's where an app for sheet music like forScore or Bandhelper comes in handy. Select presets when the song in your sheet music app is selected via PC and CC messages send by the app.
I’ve been playing guitar over 30 years. Always been a tube amp with a handful of stomp boxes guy. After a bit of a break, I was recruited into an active gigging band. On the recommendation of a fellow player, I bought the Stomp XL. I gotta say, I do love it. Everything you’ve said in here makes total sense. I’m basically treating it like an stomp rig. Running through the return of a combo or just as a pedal board in front of a head. I keep my preset as lean as possible and stick with it for the rehearsal or gig. My time spent using DAW based modeling broke me of getting lost in the weeds of slathering on too many effects. Keep it simple and check your levels!
I use my Quad Cortex for our gigs....we only play about once every other month. I sort of "simplified" my rig to 4 presets: A clean tone, a Marshall tone, a preset for bass guitar, and a special preset for a Metallica song. So really, a clean preset and a Marshall sound, and the two other presets are sort of specialized. It really does make things easier.
I'm using a PodGo into a Catalyst 100, best setup I've tried so far. It replaced a Line 6 500HD rack controlled by a floorboard into a carvin power amp and a carvin cabinet that was marketed as a second FR cabinet for their acoustic amp. That system worked well for a few years, but was a bit much to setup and haul. The PodGo is simpler and just feels more responsive. Also the IR's are much better. I love the catalyst open back sound and I can also ditch the PodGo for practice if I want. I have been using modelers since about 2010.
I’ve just purchased my first modeler and have not gigged with it yet, so really appreciate this advice.
I also play keys and I’ve changed from having individual sounds (per song) on my NORD to having more general sounds because it’s just a nightmare changing sounds per song.
At the very least, have a couple of general patches you can quickly jump to quickly.
I do the one preset per song method (Quad Cortex). It works really well as we’re a rock cover band playing all kinds of artists. I level out all the presets using a reference patch. I find it really easy and quick to switch to the next song and then I use the Scene Mode on the lower switches to change sounds within the preset. I do have one master patch for when I’m just jamming with mates and that preset has four basic tones (clean, crunch, heavy and lead).
This has been my experience exactly. One preset, 4 snaps, snappy compressed clean + OD + Gainy + Lead. Dodgy wedding set list very similar.
I have a Helix, and I use it much the same as you do. I treat it like I would if I had the ultimate guitar rig with maybe two amps in stereo and a bunch of effects on a pedal board. Helix enabled me to dial in the most _crushing_ tone which has become my tone of choice. Then it's all snapshots. If I need variations that are not on one of the 8 snapshots per preset, I just send the whole thing to the next preset and dial in whatever different stuff I need. I totally agree; it's much more important to me to use Helix for the creation of my own tone & then to use the living _shit_ outta that tone🤟🤣😂
Great video John! Keeping preset #s limited helps a ton. Keeping the same cab IR helps a lot as well for overall consistency. It's also more realistic, bands don't gig with 10 different amps, cabs and pedalboards! I believe that the most important tip that often gets over looked is to dial in your sounds at gig volumes (100-110dB) so you can compensate for Fletcher-Munson, and also balance the perceived volume of clean vs distorted at those volumes (it drastically differs from DI/FOH/IEMs). And when you're with the band it helps balance the EQ you perceive at home vs live (rolling off bass below 80-120Hz, cutting highs between 5kHz-10kHz to taste).
I play in a covers band in the midland. I use the helix and tend to have a “General” patch and a number of specific ones for songs like seven nation etc.
A key thing for me is that I run the lighting from the controller so often duplicate the “general” patch with different midi commands set for different songs (ie different lighting scenes).
I agree though, generally I try and keep them minimal as it’s a pain to be checking and changing lots of patches.
Great video and excellent playing, keep it up!
Great video! I've been playing in my current cover band for about a year and a half now and was faced with the same dilemma. I'm using a Helix XT and started using two patches (back and forth) for the entire gig. Even at two patches, it was challenging. I don't know why anyone would want to use 30! I now play an entire gig (2 or 3 sets) on one patch. I use two dedicated amps (clean and high gain) with one cabinet (I use a FRFR). Four snapshots, Four effects (boost, OD, Fuzz, Pitch Shift). My delays, chorus, etc. are but into the snapshots. I'm thinking about posting a TH-cam video demo and adding the preset free to the Line 6 Helix page.
Yes please do
I am one of those people that do a preset per songs haha I have two main reasons for this: each preset has the different snapshots of a song that sends MIDI commands to control my bands lights, and the other second reason being to somewhat justify the cost of investing into a Helix. I didn’t want to buy a $1600 modeler and limit myself using only 1-3 amps. You are correct that it takes a lot of work to sit and go through each preset and make sure volume is consistent each setting, but damn is it fun to try and tone match and get a great sound for each song
A Helix LT is only $1000 and has almost a hundred of amps available. HX Stomp is half that price but less inputs ana outputs and switches abs no volume/ each pedal built in though.
I do a fair amount of musical theater gigs and often have several instruments for a show - electric, steel and nylon acoustic, banjo, mandolin, etc. Most of the time it’s at least two presets with an A/B switch to change instruments.
Brilliant insight john, the analogy of lugging a new amp / cab on mid set is great (dont do it..!). I have a pod go (limited DSP), so have the same block copied to match vol, EQ and then extra presets (only a couple) to change the pedals between presets. Then have a couple snapshots for extra gain if needed. Many forget the actuals guitar vol/tone for getting extra bite or warmth and i actually use the coil taps on my guitars too. So these all help. Love the channel john...👍
Great tips! I've tried the preset-per-song and I needed a cheat sheet to keep it all straight. I like your solution much better. On another note, Jonny Lee recently posted a video where he showed how he changes mic placement per snapshot for different tones. I would love to get your thoughts on that and how you might use it. Thanks so much, John and please place in the folder.
If you make all of your presets based off the same rig with minimal changes to the chain it keeps things a lot more doable. It works best with a setlist set in stone so you're not searching with your feet in between songs. For a less structured set you want a simple set-up.
Great points to be made. A local engineer told me several years ago how difficult it is to run sound with guitarists that use a bunch of different patches/presets on a live show. It winds up being to the detriment because of a constantly changing landscape.
it sounds like this would be that tho, no?
This is exactly what I do. I use mostly one goutar and one prset for the thole gig. I might use an acoustic patch (with an electric to acoustic IR) and maybe a dark/Lone Star vs. brigher Soldano patch for single vs double coil pickups. These patches have all the effects I need on the same switches. I use some snapshots, but prefer to use stomp mode to mix and match the effects I want for the moment. I don't necessarily play songs the same way every time, but do try to have a consistent, predictable guitar tone from song to song. That is, I use a modeler essentially the same way I would a pedalboard and amp/cabinet to get my guitar tone as I fit it into the songs. Great video John, good insight into the practical use of modern gear.
I'm guilty of preset-per-song for my cover band, using around 50 presets at the moment. As John mentioned the axefx global blocks make it possible to share blocks settings across all the presets. I have a single amp block and cab so I can change the core amp sound globally across all presets as needed per show. All the presets do for me is make it possible to more carefully fine tune subtle details like delay repeats per song section and scenes make it possible to toggle many effects with a single press. This for me is better than tap dancing to enable multiple effects when needed. The biggest pain is the constant reordering of the setlist from show to show as I like to set the presets sequentially and program a switch to navigate forward and back. I also have the "kitchen sink" preset at the ready for when somebody calls an audible and I don't want to waste time searching for the correct preset. Probably more work than necessary but it can be fun if you enjoy programming. Now if only I could play anywhere near as well as John. Love the channel!
Agree. I take a similar approach. One main tone with 4 snapshots; clean, clean lead, dirty, & dirty lead covers a bulk of the stuff.
I have a few presets with unique modulations like Leslie, or Chorus, etc.
Finally, if the song has significant tone changes within a song that is not standard, I’ll build a unique preset. For example, on Comfortably Numb I have the main tone & then shift to a different snapshot to emulate the strings and then a full on distorted delay lead for the two solos.
Great ideas! I’m in a genre cover band covering five or six songs per artist so I have a preset per band. I do find I’m doing more tap dancing than I’d like, especially while singing.
I gig with Pod Go into FX return of a Blackstar HT Club 40. I have 1 or 2 "main" presets for the 90% of songs and then for a few songs where the changes in tone and parts of the song make more sense to be played with a specific preset called the "Song XYZ" and then use the snapshots 1 - 4 to change for parts of the song that needs alot of changes in tone per section of the song etc...
Great tips. I use a Mooer Ge200 into a Peavy Valveking 100 receiver effect port. I write and play in a metal band. I treat it just like an amp and pedal board. Rhythm tone, tap to turn on solo effects, clean channel. It feels consistent. One thing I did was run my pedal board into an audio interface, open a DAW, check the incoming levels from the effects unit. Try and match them without going into the red. Fine tune them by ear as cleans will always sound louder, but now I have a better idea of how much my signal gets boosted while soloing, so soundguys do turn you down during a solo and then forget to turn you back up. Not my fav gig.
I recently bought a Quad Cortex and I’ve been gigging using one main preset which pretty much does it all. I’ve still got to work on relative volumes and finding mids that cut through but it’s coming together well.
Previously, I’ve been using my FM3 for gigs. With one band I had a preset per song dialled in, whilst in my other band, I used one preset. Ultimately, one main preset is the easier solution. There’s a certain novelty in having unique sounds for each song, and for the odd song it’s great, but in general I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Audiences don’t give a shit and other musicians just think you’re up your own arse. And then there’s the situation where the singer swaps the set around and you end up pulling muscles while you dance back and forth trying to find the right preset.
As for my tuppence worth on the relative merits of both units, Fractal have the sounds and the depth but for ease of use and physical design, the QC is hard to beat. I’m not sure I prefer one over the other but if anybody wants to give me a H90 for my fm3…
Just got back from my first big gig and used these tips! Really helped alot thank you!
Solid advice. I use a master preset or 'kitchen sink' [reset as well. I have a couple levels of gain, and easy access solo boost, and a handful of effects. I sort of use it like I have an amps footswitch on a board with some effects... old school. I use a few scenes, but mostly do things manually. Also, for the one or two songs that require a different preset, those presets are copies of the master preset, with effects I know that I wont use for that song removed and replaced with what I need for that one song. That way the sound is consistent. I gigged a Helix starting in 2015/16 using the fx return of a tube head and cab. Eventually, I got tired of lugging all that around and went to FRFR (Friedman) or, if the gig allows a PS170 and Marshall 412 cab (usually outdoors). I don't mind the FRFR for it's high end, but I find aggressive hi cuts help. I've been with Fractal now for a couple years (FM3 & 9) and really love modeling. I don't ever see myself going back to tube amps & pedals again, as much as I love them. I remember in the early days, sound guys looked super skeptical when I showed up with a modeler. Now they embrace it LOL. The times have definitely changed.
Lol, been there. When I started with my Helix, I had a lot of Presets for different songs. And ran into the same problems with volume balance. Now I only use one Preset. Got 4 Snapshots (Clean, Push, Overdrive and Lead. Rest of the switches are stomp boxes. Like Chorus, etc. It helps to be able to turn delay and the OD pedal on and off. I use one switch as a volume boost (+6 dB), so that I can also play leads with clean and push snapshots. The expression pedal is volume pedal per default, helps to easily adjust the volume if needed (especially to turn it back sometimes). And in some songs, volume fades are great. 2nd pedal mode is a Wah, which I sometimes need. Another important factor, often overlooked, is the tone knob of the guitar. Especially if I need different clean sounds, it sometimes helps to turn it back to ~50% or so. For a softer, jazzy sound. With the recent 3.5 version, I finally managed to use the Fender Twin Reverb for the clean Snapshot, and Ventoux for the rest. This was a big improvement for me personally.
Good medicine! I tried the patch per song and it was a nightmare. Now I have 4 presets and that gives me all I need for our sets.
Great points I will definitely check out. I’ve slipped into the Helix rabbit hole of over use of presets and it’s often been frustrating on the live gigs I’ve been playing.
You mention in the video how you have gotten away from the FRFR thing. I'm curious if you think the new 3.5 cab engine will have any impact on future Powercab Plus products? I have no experience with these but I can't help but believe that it could make a big difference. Thanks!
This is so damn useful. thank you John!
Wedding gigs sound a bit lively in your neck of the woods mate. And local soundmen sound a bit dodgy as well 🤣
Agreed! I’ve definitely never heard of bride being dissatisfied with a guitar solo before. But I do appreciate his message and sense of humor with it.
Great advice! You display true wisdom from real experience. Priceless. 😃👍
Ih crickey, I thought it was just me having things changing all the time. Every gig is a struggle (and distraction) when I'm constantly fighting the damn amps/effects/modellers. I stick to four presets, clean and jangly, breakup, crunchy and mental. So this video is a godsend in terms of timing.
The perfect video for something I was trying to sort out myself. Thanks a lot !
Good stuff. I play professionally and I use maybe 7 or 8 models but I don't use them all every gig. If I do a Gary Moore song I use my Gary Moore preset. If I do a Boston song I use my Boston preset but everything else is generic so it can be used on anything. I also carry 2 guitars, 1 with humbuckers and one with singles and not every preset is good for both so I've designed programs for my singles and use the Matchless-like and Plexi programs for the humbuckers. Having a single preset per song is way too much work. I'm also a soundman and that's a sonic nightmare. If I had somebody do that I'd just ride the fader and leave everything else neutral.....you can't chase that. As far as volumes however the only thing I use my expression pedal on my floor for is volume. I don't use a wah and if I want to clean up the dirt I just back off the volume knob but all my presets are tuned to the way I want them so they're left alone.
Yes yes and yes. I've gotten to the point that snapshots only turn groups of pedals off and on with no substantial parameter changes.
I’m new to modeling and just got an hx stomp. I really want to gig with it so I’m trying to figure it out but it’s tough. Thanks for the vids
Keep it simple is a good approach. I used to have one preset per song and it was a bit of a nightmare. I use a Helix with a Variax, so my tone options a pretty much limitless, but what I have now is a 'go to' patch which covers probably 70% of the set list then 2 or 3 band/ song specific patches e.g. I have an Oasis patch because we usually play 3 or 4 Oasis tunes in the set, some of which have very specific tone changes e.g. What's the story morning glory goes from a pitch shifted riff on a semi hollow on neck position into higher volume solo (no pitch) with guitar in neck position back to chorus tone with guitar back in bridge...it's just easier to do it in snapshots. That said, most of the rest of the songs are on my one good 'generic' patch.
"The bride's mother is screaming at you because you fucked up the solo in Robbie Williams "Angels" - I've played those gigs. Was worth watching this video just for that :)
Nice vid. I would say the most important thing is to level match your different stages of gain and then give yourself the ability to boost 3db on any gain stage.
the use case matters. in a cover band, i have 5 basic patches (first few patches in my set list for easy access), but those patches are tweaked for every song. so i wind up with a patch per song. within any song, i might have two other fx. for instance run to you by bryan adams. i want a single coil clean sound at the beginning and a heavier more distorted tone when the pre-chorus kicks in. no complaints. always get compliments. not difficult to manage either.
Concert guitarists change their guitars every so many songs to change the pickup sound (darker / brighter) for a specific song. But yes the amps / vans stay the same and just they add/ remove effects per song as needed. Snapshots in the Helix is a game changer to keep it simple and have less toe tapping.
When doing a four hour gig with 15 songs per hour this is the smart approach!
I think the same sort of thing could apply for a church service with four/five songs with individual song presets, which is how I use Helix.
All my individual presets are built from a "master preset" that has been thoroughly tested in several services to make sure it works for gain, tone, and snapshot types (clean, drive, solo, swells, etc).
I only have three different master presets for the different amp and pedal combinations that I use, they are all gain matched to each other and between snapshot types so the sound engineer is always happy (with me, at least...).
All I change is the name of the song, the tempo, and the starting snapshot. I also move the snapshots I'll use for the song to the bottom row for easy access.
This means ultra fast transitions and consistent gain and tone. If something changes mid-service I can use almost any preset for any song just by tapping in the required tempo.
Many guys who use modelers or profilers live also think of having something to give stage volume (either standard guitar cab or FRFR) and avoiding different preamp/cab combinations throughout a gig. How different or better is that compared to using a 1x12 cab, a Joyo Bantamp, and a couple of pedals? Despite the absence of a direct output to be sent to the board, I believe the amount of money spent on a nice modeler and some monitoring cab will tend to be more expensive than the hybrid amp and 1x12. Therefore, is it still worth it? I mean, since using several amps and cab combinations does not look feasible, is it actually handier than a portable and straightforward guitar amp? For live use, it only makes sense to me if the cab can be avoided, which does not seem to be an inspiring thing. Thoughts? Thanks for the great videos!
Exactly right, I think the cab on stage (or FRFR etc) is pretty essential for it to be anything like a traditional rig. The modeling approach is often a little more convenient for like you say going to FOH, and also things like snapshots etc can use less tap dancing to change tones?
@@johnnathancordyThanks a lot for the attention! Really like your content. On a second thought, maybe the more effects one may need, the more advantageous it may be (when many ifferebr delays or modulation types are needed for instance). All the best. Cheers from Rio de Janeiro- Brazil.
For live, I typically do per song for originals. Setlist I'd usually around an hour and it helps to double as the setlist on stage with the helix scribble strips
I make a preset for every song. But they’re almost all the same “Base” tone. Then I can use presets to modify the main sound for each song. I can adjust delays, drive, verb etc on a snapshot by snapshot basis. Works really well for me, and it’s not like we have 1,028 songs in the set.
I have meticulously built 3-4 presets per guitar (electric, bass & acoustic) by Amp type (Plexi, Twin, Bassman, PRS, Revv).. then use those for everything. This is unless the song has some rich ambient specific need, then those are preset per song (typically in worship).
I tried the stomp xl for the first time on reherrsal. What a disaster. I forgot the xlr cable so had to borrow one. If your changing from tube amp to modeller mage sure you have the correct cables and spare cables.
Then the sounds via the line out to the foh were nothing like the sounds of set up via headphones. Live playing at volume increases the low and high end which needs to be taken into account when at in domestic room level or headphone level. The third problem I had when using snapshots was accidentally pressing the wrong footswitch this changing preset to another snapshot patch that id been experimenting with that had a much higher volume and crazy modulation. Needless to say mid song, all hell broke loose and i had to stop to work out what had happened. To make matters worse, later in the night, I did the same again like a really bad joke. I will now create an empty preset before and after my snapshot preset for live playing. Why can't the stomp have amps that will sound real and a constant volume without the need to add a compressor for more of a natural tube feel and sustain and having to cut the low and high frequencies. At this moment, I'm not impressed and contemplating more gas on more expensive tube amps
Great tips! I have my Helix LT setup similar. A: Rhythm B: Crunch C: Clean D: Lead. I then use my top buttons for my stomps.
It makes the most sense to me, especially for live playing.
I approach this the same way as you. Works great.
Great tip…..I used to make presets for each song and that just got to be too complicated. I had to reorder set list etc. now I keep one or two and use snap shots changes needed but keeps my core amp setup sound and two to three outboard effects as needed. Really much more comfortable now.
I went through playing rented amp+cab rig, then my own rack pre to a return of a rented amp + cab, then preamp+ cab sim, and then HX stomp. Pity it doesn't have global blocks, so I have basically one preset with clean/crunch/lead snapshots copied to every single song, bec all of them (with exceptions, of course) require some different effects, such as big lush reverb or whammy whatnot. Also each song preset has different bpm set. For each song I have specific effects set to a footswitches just in case, but basically it is all ruled via midi, so I don't have to step on buttons every time.
Great advice as usual. I have also tried and failed with the one-patch-per-song method. It’s a nightmare. Depending on your modeller (I was using an Atomic Amplifire AA12) it’s a feat of memory if you need to switch the set list. This simpler method seems much more logical. I might even try the AA12 again, having metaphorically thrown it against the wall a few times and given up. Also, there are rumours of an update to the Mac firmware. Finally.
Agreed. I tried it with a PodGo. Too much work and ready to difficult to level output/volume across patches/snapshots
I dont gig, but imagine building a tone with amp+cab on the helix and then you arrive at the gig and they plug your helix output into one of those combo amp+cab, I'd assume that would be a huge problem no?
This is true. Having 4 general presets can survive a setlist. The other presets are just for fun.
You say that back in the day these guys don't change their amp and cab or drum set during the gig and that's true, but mostly because it wouldn't be practical. Now days, it is reasonably practical. That being said. I find that I can get by with about 4 presets. Sometimes a preset is created for specific song. I'm my case, when we cover Like A Stone , that one get's its own preset but generally everything else can be done with maybe 2 or 3 other presets. I have maybe 15 folders of presets and some preset are created to mimic the original guitar tone as best possible but I use them for reference when setting up my 3 or 4 presets that will be used for a gig.
I do have a rig per song, 34 songs. I think you are right though. Trying to balance the levels between songs was something I still need to sort, plan was to go at it with a proper db meter.
I think I’m going to condense to around 4 presets.
I get wher you are coming from the limited amount of presets to set up (which I'm doing so myself), but it's a challenge playing in a cover or function band when you are doing songs by different artists, although analogies of original artists not changing their sounds couldn't really be compared against playing numerous different songs from different artists. The snapshots are brilliant in offering the ability to go from a clean snap shot to then two different stages of OD and then a lead setting.
Clean vol on 5, rhythem on 7 and 11 for the solo😉 its all at our little Finger on your guitar! With a good amp Sound and acompliments like effects.
Hi, this may or may not be a good place to pose the question. I run an HX Stomp on a board with a pedal switcher and some analog pedals, and have presets for both 4 cable with my and straight out to power amp. I've tried loading IRs to only the right output, but I believe the problem I'm getting is that when I run left out only, it forces of blend of my intended output and the IR load from the other side. I only occasionally want to use the iR aspect. Would it make sense to just plug a dummy 1/4" plug into the R out, so that my left out doesn't pull stereo? Hope that makes sense. Thank you so much for these videos! I have a lot more appreciation for how the Stomp can be used in the "real world", not just sitting at home.
I basically want a nice clean town with drive (808) pedal to use for some (not all ) solos. The HX stomp delivers great. Simpler is better..
John, I was wondering if you normally run your modeler in mono for gigs or do you go stereo? I'm using a Helix feeding into the EFX return of an amp I just on stage, but just in mono. I'm wondering if it is worth the effort to try to run my setup in stereo for gigs.
Just got the HX Stomp XL and still learning. Question for all - would you use an amp and cab in the preset if you were sending it to the front of another amp on stage? The equipment at the bar I play are set up so that I can’t easily connect to the return on the stage amp and forget about the 4 cable method. Should I just use the stomp as a pedal board and skip the amp modeler given this set up? Thanks!
i have purchase your general preset bundle but d ont really know how to use it and when you say your going to put it in the folder... it's gonna be witch one ? thanks for keep doing your video !
John, do you ever use the Helix Floor unit for gigs? Or do you find it overkill for what you generally need?
I think Joe bonomossa does use different amps on different songs, like he'll parent dumble with a tweed on some stuff and then play other amps for other songs. Your point still stands though. that guy is extravagant, working musicians can't gig with a collection of dumbles and vintage tweeds (and bursts) worthy of of a full scale museum exhibit.
I have a patch with my delays, dual irs, and reverbs. Then I run all my drives before the stomp and have a compressor seperate, as well as a Jhs artificial blonde. To me it’s my amp sim and delays.
I'm also on a preset per song basis and my iPad music reader switches the presets on the FM3 for me. Doing all tones in one preset means I actually need to know which tones I'm using for an entire setlist. I have no idea!
Being in the P&W realm we use quite a wide range of tones from the ethereal to funky to heavy drives some need precise timing. And we do some top40 cover tunes as well. Can't really play John Mayer without his tones. Not much place for JM tones in P&W, either. I do have a problem keeping the mix consistent, though. we run IEMs now and I'm getting the comment that I'm fluctuating too much. I do run the same amp and cabs quite often so I'll have a look at the global blocks again.
This would take quite some rethinking to do all songs in one preset. Also my drummer uses my tempo light to count of the songs. So we at least start somewhere appropriately. I do use the same blocks for most of my presets.
Me too on gig setup. 1 preset with snapshots available.
Couple questions. Can you make a bass sound like an octave up or like a 12-string bass like Jermey from Pearljam , also can you detune a specific string like drop the E string to D ?
Hi Jonathan. In your opinion for Strats, which is the compressor the suites it best for controlled but not killing all of the transients. I am fininding this the hardest part to replicate an analog compressor. Thank you . Your videos are amazing .
Just bought the presets pack from Gum road to get the JonnyGiggs35HXEX tone mentioned. But it's not in there. How do I get it? I love the sound in the video!
Great info and thoughts on simplifying modeler use. With so many options, it's easy to make things very complex quickly.
The point you made about knowing the sounds you need (e.g., set list songs), and using your specific modeler to make it happen as simply as possible for live navigation is key IMO.
FWIW, my first modeler was a Vox ToneLab (the first tabletop version), and I've used modelers on and off ever since - most recently a GT1000 which I'm selling, and now only use my SY-1000 for direct modeling.
Currently, my versatile rig is HX Effects + Catalyst 100 using 4CM and MIDI to control the amp channel and amp boost on/off.
The rig for "My Sound" is much simpler: a Marshall Origin 50C or at home either Origin 50H full stack or Engl 100W half stack with a Source Audio EQ2 in front.
My current focus is making a small computer rig around my Blue Cat Audio Axiom and KMI SoftStep2. Looking for a USB MIDI expression pedal to complete this rig.
Cheers!
One of the biggest pains in the hole for me is adjusting the tones with the band. Impatient sods don't give me the time.
Great video. Please tell me about that Strat? pickups? year, model?
The more I hear about modelers the more I want to keep on playing with my real amps
🤣
I hear you. The transition seems rather intimidating, but I think the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. I’m moving toward using my PodGo more for gigs and moving away from individual pedals. I haven’t brought an amp to a gig in about six or seven years, so I’ve already gotten over that hurdle. My sound man sends me back what I need in my monitor and I’m good to go. I’m pretty low-maintenance.
I’m working on getting a few good, flexible presets set up and properly balanced and also, as suggested by Mr Cordy, making absolutely sure that I am able to make changes on the unit itself when necessary and not relying on the edit software through my laptop. I found out the hard way (on a gig) that it is critical to be able to navigate through the controls on the unit itself!
There’s nothing like amps and stompboxes…there’s MORE!
…and at the same time, maybe a little less gear to carry 🤣
@@martinthompson2425 well if you have a lightweight two-channel combo, why use a modeller?
@@nekkon1989. Blues gig or classic rock gig…I’ve actually done a few of those with a SINGLE CHANNEL, low-wattage class A amp. I would just ride the volume knob all night. Such fantastic simplicity was great. However, party band covers call for more variety of tones and effects. If you want to get a gig and keep a gig in a cover band that plays weddings, private parties, corporate functions, festivals etc, riding the volume knob plugged straight into a single channel amp won’t cut it. A two channel amp won’t cut it either. I have nothing against old school simplicity. In fact, I love it. But I’ve got bills to pay, so the right tools for the job are essential. You can’t realistically ask a carpenter to build a house with a potato peeler, right?
Be well!
Yeah man…. I have an HX stomp and I absolutely love it. At home, I use all the amp modeling for practice or recording and on a gig I use it as a Swiss Army knife effects unit after some nice drive pedals in front of a decent tube amp. There are SO many variables trying to use it as an all in one solution and I’ve never had much luck. This is doubly true when you’re playing a gig with another guitar player who is playing a tube amp.
Add a HX stomp to your pedalboard and keep playing through a tube amp.
I have a few midi controlled pedals with my stomp xl.
I use different presets for etch song, is has to do with lots of different guitar tones I use and midi comands to ableton.
but its the same clean amp and cabs for all the songs
john mayer (and a lot of the big names) does actually cycle amps during a performance
The other thing I do is send a constant signal to FOH and adjust my onstage volume through a different output with the big volume knob.
That bit from 0:38 is SO good. John, any chance we could get tabs/backing track via Patreon for that part?
I think that using different rigs on different presets is totally okay as long as it sounds good.
Yes it is true that in real life you remain with a consistent rig, however, one of the main points of a modeler is to precisely have the ability of swapping rigs all the time.
Again, it all depends on your soundcheck to each preset to be used and you'll sound impressive.
Check out the vids by Steve Sterlacci who tours (Jessica Lynn band) and has a few videos about this subject as well i think