I would say kick pitching isn't necessarily a fundamental concept for EDM, but something to keep in mind. Let's say you like the transient and overall character of a kick, but for some reason the tone is a bit off with the mix - I 100% agree with Mau5 here - cut the lows, but use a spectrum analyzer to identify what the new fundamental pitch of the kick is. After the lows get cut, there's typically a secondary fundamental pitch that represents the tone of the kick... usually in the 80-170Hz range (unless you're using some really clicks kicks, then they go higher). Adjust that new fundamental frequency so that it fits better with the key of your track. Typically I gravitate toward the root note or the 5th, depending on which one is closer to the original pitch of the kick. But... when it comes down to it... use your EARS. My tip is more a quick rule of thumb for finding something that will PROBABLY sound good to your ear.
@@TheOfficalAndI If you’re talking about messing with the sound of the transient of the kick there are plenty of things you can do. You could use a pitch envelope in a sampler so the sample starts at the original pitch and modulates the pitch for the tail of the kick. You could use something like Ableton’s frequency shifter which will affect the low frequencies a lot more than the high frequencies. You could layer a transient of a kick with the tail of a kick so you can transpose the tail without affecting the transient. You could synthesize a kick so you have complete control over the tuning of the tail. Whether you should worry about it or not depends on the style of kick, in my opinion. But if you do want to, there’s plenty ways of tuning a kick so it still sounds good.
I was gonna comment something about Hardstyle kicks, now some kid is gonna go make a hardstyle track and wonder why it sounds funky especially at the climax/melody part lol
The kicks nowadays sucks from most producers by the way. Also musically a lot of the new releases suck enormously. It doesn't matter, Hardstyle always comes in almighty power after few seasons.
@@DarkMetaOFFICIAL they're called mid basses, because they don't sound melodic and pretty, you wouldn't use a mid range bass patch to play some top melodies, but I get what you mean, I have a personal distaste for those kinds of sounds but they're talked in that sense for a reason, they're mid range that would match or even contain in the patch a sub bass
Guys like deadmau5 are my heroes. In a sea of endless pro tips and tutorials out there on how to make “the perfect” track, it’s refreshing to have someone filter out the bullshit which there is a LOT of out there.
@@technober > Kick is another wordt for BASSdrum Yes > they need to be tuned to fit. No, watch the video > Kick needs to be in tune with root or 5th. No, watch the video > Kicks are typically falling down in pitch too but where the end is the part which needs to be in tune.. No, watch the video
and hes completely wrong, a kick has plenty of sub bass, if its out of harmony you will get phasing issues and it will make the speakers work harder / meaning you wilil lack in loudness. deadmaus is simply arrogant and wrong
To me, deadmau5 always comes off as someone who would rather be contrarian than informative. Adjusting the pitch of a kick is as good a tool as any other when it comes to dailing in the sound you are going for.
@@sanjacobs6261 In other words, tuning it until It sounds good. Maybe that happens to be the root or the fifth. Maybe not. There's two things to consider. First, there's a given range where the kick will do it's job. Too high it won't push any air and too low it will be undefined and lack punch. The other thing to consider is the actual pitch of the kick and how it relates to the key of the song. Longer kicks end up sounding cluttered if they hit certain notes that doesn't work with the bass. So usually one must compromise. Tweak and listen. The tuning knob of a kick drum is far more important than an eq for shaping the sound in my opinion. That's why I think blanket statements such as "don't tune your kick" can be misleading. I think "don't obsess about your kick drum always being in key with the rest of the track" would be more helpful advice.
@@nicedevices So with a short kick, that sweeps and ends too fast to be tonal, you'd agree that tuning doesn't really apply, but pitching it to taste still makes sense?
It's always a treat to listen to learned masters muse about their craft. You can hear that the reason he's so critical and harsh, is because he genuinely cares to make the music as good as it can be.
like you could say one music-related word to him like "tell me about sampling", and he could go off for hours on all of his opinions on that thing, and it's so great because he really loves it
Mcnasty what's crazy is that you have so much high frequencies on your mic. Can you please make it sound less "narrow"? Bring up the bass in your voice bro, it's really not that pleasant listening to you on podcasts, it's as if you care a little too much about EQing your mic, it's just overcooked, brother. Oh and thanks for the funny content, even tho it's braindead memes nowadays (comparing to old siege vids) it still brings a laugh and makes eating and working more interesting. Oh yeah and nice latest release, the track is booooming. Are you producing just yourself or you have a group of sound engineers to help ya? Any way - respect on making sound 💪
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me: tuning the kick isn't about "making it a note in the key", tuning is just another tool (and usually the first) along with eq, compression, envelope editing, whatever. It's about getting that thump to climb in bed with the bass, all grease and punch, no friction or dissonance... unless friction and dissonance is what the track wants, but as much as I love a little rub I don't usually want any in the bottom 2 octaves, too messy.
@@no-name168 a big part of making drums sit well in the mix is tuning them. Pitching them slightly up or down. People do this with real drum sets. Forcing yourself to fix everything later in the mix down when you could just do it properly early on is just making things more difficult for yourself. There are things that eq and compression can’t fix
@@LennartIbanez Most of the time in Gabber and Hardstyle, kicks and bass are one and the same. Much more so in Gabber, where hardstyle has this hybrid weird kick with a long bassy tail that is usually what's pitched but still part of the kick
I was never into edm (still am not, generally), until my jazz pianist father of all people showed me "FML" in 2009 or 10, and we were both fascinated by it. From there I started watching Joel produce all night in the summer of 2012, and got super into his musical style and approach. Finally got to see him at red rocks in late 2019 and now my life is complete.
Technically, according to the Fletcher Munson curve, the louder the music the better, b/c you can differentiate the frequency bands more easily. However, the producer should not decide on the volume their work is heard at and when the listener turns the volume down to the same volume as a well produced track, it will sound worse in comparison
actually this was the best advice that I ever learned about music production. it was always a mystery for me cause other "tutorials" always told me about how I should empathize low end, but the truth was, killing unnecessary low end was the solution. I'm making songs that I always wanted now thanks to Joel
It honestly depends. I’ve been a Hiphop producer for over 20 years and there are times where tuning a kick is actually better for the beat. Not so much for being in tune with the instruments but just fitting better with the track. Not all kicks are short 1/8 note hits from a real kit and they don’t all always have the same exact fundamental frequency and thus can benefit from a pitch adjustment when necessary. It’s not always needed on every track but it helps when it helps. Waves makes a newer plugin called Torque that helps with this during post processing.
I think Deadmau5 was talking specifically about the common EDM tip that "you should always tune your kick to fit in key with track". So i think your mindset is pretty similar.
IDEK bro like, I don’t mean to be an ass but like how can you call yourself a rock producer if you don’t know how to tune a drum kit with a drum key, that’s like basic basic basic fundamentals
I'm glad you all got some good info from my demo, I'm REALLY happy that I got this feedback from Joel! My music has significantly improved and I hope that this helps n00b producers like me get closer to the sound that they are looking for. Also for clarification that was one of my early attempts at techno, I lean more towards house and electro for my other tracks
Don’t be fooled by people taking this advice as gospel. People just need to pay attention to what note is being played in the sub area, he’s advocating for having a bass play the note, instead of a kick sub alternating with the synth sub. Plenty of producers who are Grammy nominated and sell out shows tune their kicks and have that be the sub note on the beat (Disclosure for example). Many of the folks in these comments are going to roll off the sub on their kicks, and their synth bass is not going to hit the beat every time and their going to have a “drop out” on that beat. Your technique is just fine, just needs to be an 1/8th note if anything.
Also, if your kick is clashing with your bass... try some sidechain. Not all sidechain has to be melodic-dubstep-pulsing, you can have your sidechain set up so it's dropping the bass by 30% when the kick hits or something.
Even more so, I've noticed that tuning a kick to a note that rubs against the key makes it sound more bold and can have a really cool effect when you use it sparingly
An 808 typically makes the bassline, that part you pitch, and you layer a kick with it. That way the kick doesn't change pitch and stays consistent. And cutting off the transient of the 808 is a good idea, too. You're welcome, champ.
@@Garrym3k That is actually quite rare in Miami bass or in 80s electro or freestyle. More often than not an 808 (sometimes a long one too)is the kick and a 303 or a Juno is the bass line.
@@ChristianBurrola the thing is the 303 wasn't used for full on bass and tended to be something that sat just above it - like a rhythm guitar line. turning up the resonance to get the acid sound generally cut out the bass, but this was okay because the 808 kick filled it out. Generally i do prefer to use "bass for bass" but there's no point invalidating this way of doing things just because it's an older way of doing it with the they had at the time
@@ChristianBurrola That! And often the 808 was the kick AND the bass at the same time. In Miami Bass and other music as well in the 80s. I’m okay with people using the term 808 for sub because nowadays that’s how most people use it but when people don’t even know that the 808 is actually a kick/been used and refered to as a kick for years/ considered and labeled as a kick by Roland... then maybe they should explore the concept a bit more...to say the least 🤪
@@SolStateMusicAs in look at the waveform of a track and try and find a kick played by itself at any moment? I imagine that’s the only way to take a look at the kick an artist used’s waveform. If the kick isn’t solo’d, you’ll just see summed signal.
Most people think that, if your track is in C, you gotta make sure your kick is hitting that note. Tuning a kick sample is more like rising or lowering it a few cents so it sounds better in the context of your track. It's all about sound and color. Forget about the note!
Legend has it. Word on the street is tuning a kick up by 666 semitones makes it inaudible. In a world where you can create virtually any sound from any source sound, tuning a typical EDM style kick for most genres is almost entirely redundant. Shit, you can make a hihat fit a song as a kick if you wanted. Pick a solid kick and shape to fit. Job done.
It depends a little on the kick, but I quickly stopped worrying about tuning and filtering harmonically on most drums, I listen for this stuff, but most of the time it's really not bad, and better to listen for the character of the sound at it's pitch instead. Even for open hats and synths that have things like osc sync going on etc., some weird frequencies aren't necessarily bad if they're not too loud. Listen to an e-piano, some bit-crushed sounds and prepared pianos etc., it can be quite messy and atonal, but that's where the character comes from. You can get away with more on transients, and by having various weird frequencies that draw attention away from each other, none of them loud, in my experience.
I believe the tuning your kick in EDM came from the Big Room House era, where the kick was the bass. This also applies to Trap / EDM where the 808 is the kick.
Important distinction: He's not saying "never change the pitch of your kick sample". There's a big difference between trying to tune your kick based on the key of the song, and just pitching the sample until you like the sound of it. It's only the first thing there that is a waste of time with short nice healthy kicks.
This! My fav comment I've seen here. I pitch samples often in my lo-fi/synthwave tracks I've produced recently, but never in response to the key of the song - I normally write the drum track before anything else and haven't even decided what key the song is in. Letting the kick just be a transient and filling it out with some type of sine wave or whatever for the extra sub content if you need it works well beyond just EDM, since you can shape the decay of the sine wave to match your needed sub oomph. Typically if the kick is longer and you're working with a less bassy genre, then people should just go with that. Anyway, appreciate the point you've made here!
I feel like it really depends on the genre you're making. Sometimes you don't want a super short kick, in which case you should tune it, so it isn't out of phase with your bass
Eh, both Secrets of Dance Music Production and Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio to do it. Armin, Above & Beyond, Darude, Dieselboy, and many more have all said to do it. The only time I wouldn’t tune a kick is if the key of the kick is in the scale of the song.
Once I stopped giving a shit about tuning my kicks and made sure I'm just getting the punch out of it, was when my tracks started to sound much fatter and no longer restrict my creativity. Tuning your kicks was definitely one of the words pieces of advice I ever heard, especially on a song that's more than just one single chord.. which is majority of music.
While it may not be necessary, I definitely don't know about "worst piece of advise" lol. If your kick is very tonal (aka sine wavy after the transient) then it can totally make sense to tune your kick to the root note or even 5th of the key you're in. If your song is made up of more than one chord like you said, the kick hitting at the root note of the key should still be consonant with your chords. I don't tune my kicks all the time, but the theory definitely makes sense when applied circumstantially.
@@BIG_PASTA I generally don't use tonal kicks because then you often have to retune them for the different bass notes of chord progressions, which sort of makes them lose the integrity of the transient / top. So I personally try to stick with something more punchy where the tone isn't very evident and use sub bass to fill in the bottom similar to what Joel says here
@@iamdannywyatt no joke I've tried that before my dude! However as soon as you repitch the body, the relationship between the transient and body changes and you often get a weird incompatibility between the zero points that more trouble to deal with than just using the transient of the kick + a different bass or a shorter kick to begin with hahaha. I'm sure there's ways to make it work, but I've always found them to be more of a hassle than it's worth so I don't worry about tuning of a kick unless it's obviously jarring against the song
Facts. What I will say though, and this applies especially for heavier genres like dubstep, is try tuning your snares as long as they have a lot of mid meat. Do it by ear. May find it sounds better with the original fundamental but often times you may find another pitch that sounds better. Sometimes that may end up being the key of the track or 7semitones up/5 down and sometimes is none of those but its 100% worth playing around with. The problem with tuning your kicks, unless you are making them from scratch (witch is a lot of fun to do btw) is when you start repitching them more than 1 or 2 semitones they can start to sound hella wonky, especially when pitching down bc you lose all the high end, one of the most important ranges for a good punch. Not to mention that transient gets stretched out. As long as you kick and sub aren’t fighting you should be good even if your kick is in a different key
I have like literally 2 dozen kick samples that I have saved & use and that's it. That is more than enough to take 2-3 kicks from each time for layering & tuning to each other other to make one decent enough kick. If you've got a sampler, a few kicks can be combined in almost an infinite amount of ways to create new kicks every time. It's funny that people will buy a sample pack with over a thousand kicks, yet you only hear a handful of kicks throughout electronic music.
Actually interesting advice on using Ozone. I have it, used it once or twice but it just didn't sound right at all out of the box so gave up and went back to my old trusty tools. I'll try again with giving it some more headroom!
I bought a couple of pro bongos a long time ago, and I asked the guy in the percussion store "is there any way to tune them?" He looked at me like I was stupid and said "you dont need to tune your bongos. They are percussive, not melodic!" Since then I rarely tune my percussive sounds to the music, but rather go for a tone that suits that percussive sound generally.
It depends on what kick you are using, some need to be tuned to the base note of the track, some don't. And kicks usually have lot's of bass in them, I don't know why he would say they don't.
He probably just wants to reiterate that a kick is a drum sound. It creates a nice attack or transient on the downbeats. It has low end, but isn’t “bass”.. it’s a drum and should be used like a drum.. just like if you hear someone performing live with an actual drum set
@@Xfilesfreak66 It's a drum with bass, no other way around it. Maybe some producers replace it with a click sound layered with a bass note. But for music in general a kick drum have bass, and it needs to be tuned sometimes. It might not be sub bass, but it's bass either way. Just search for "tune kick" and you will find this is something everybody from amateurs to professionals do, because in some cases the bass is tonal enough to be dissonant if it has the wrong pitch. It's just a silly thing of Joel to say because it might be true in his example but it's certainly not a rule for either EDM or other music, this will confuse beginners and get resistance from more experienced producers for sure.
@@bounzig Yeah, it probably depends on the type of music you produce. My music is more focused on the instrumentation and melodic structure, and the sound design usually comes after. Sometimes I will pitch a kick drum if it has too much low end, but I don't sit around trying to get it to match the pitch of my other instruments. Depends on the context you are using it in. That does make sense though. Thank you for the reply
It actually depends on the genre , in fast paced music like dnb you need to tune your kick to be in the scale of the bass since if it is not you can have phase issues !
@@SolStateMusic well than you lose the movement of the drums with super hard sidechain also if you play music in a club you will have open space in sound and that empty space with the resonance of the club will make rumble
i produce neuro and this is untrue your kick should sit at 80-100hz nowhere below 80. i have seen so much sample packs with kicks sitting at 70 and even hitting at 50 and they are tottally useless for producing dnb. the shorter your kick the less it needs to be tuned actually. also sidechaining in dnb is not even necesarry because the sub and kick sits in difrend spaces on the frequency chart. its all about balancing the mix with eqing. i think some bigger dnb producers have ableton projects released you should check them out and solo the kick you're not gonna believe how thin it sounds on its own but in the full mix they sound big af
@@vincentvandeperre1670 Like when the kick is lower then like 80-100 ish, it is no longer a kick, it is a bass drum. You can use a bass drum instead of a kick if you had a bass that is sitting at like 100 hz or higher.
I was gonna talk about Phase issues and How a kick is not just a transient, it's a pitch drop of a sine wave... But EDM is different. 808s in trap music are also pitch drops so if you use the wrong kick with the 808 bassline, they can phase. But for EDM, if you're not side chaining, the kick and the sub bass won't clash (in most cases) because the sub bass is not a pitch drop, it's a stable pitch. I do agree with shorter kicks as well because of the space it gives, a few EDM producers agree on this actually.
For genre’s like psytrance, tuning the kick is required. Phase alignment with the kick and bass of psytrance is needed and to do that, you need to tune the kick.
@@akasickform Right, the guy has been fooling millions for the last 13 years, just became a millionaire out of nowhere. No reason, nope, has a ton of synths and kits, no reason. Ignorance sure is bliss, hatred sure is blinding.
@@akasickform yeah you’re right, you definitely know more than him and have spent many many more hours learning how to mix and compose I’m sure which is why youre just a bitch boi commenter on youtube and he’s a multimillionaire with billions of plays across all platforms
Before everyone stops tuning their kicks because of a TH-cam video, please realize it depends on whether or not your kick is long enough to have a discernible note, which many genres do.
I would put it this way: if the biggest problem in your track is that the kick isn't tuned correctly, you probably have a great track. If that's the problem, you don't have much of a problem. That said, yeah, if the kick is long, tuning can matter. But, do you really need that long kick? Maybe yes, maybe no. I would advise people to analyze the waveform of their favorite tracks: how long is the kick in a great-sounding, well-produced track?
Real kicks don’t have the low frequencies of basses, electronic kicks do. That said, is there any particular reason why you would use a “long kick” like an 808 instead of layering bass + kick? To me it feels like “I can’t actually produce well enough to do it correctly, so I’ll use this quick and dirty method” which, if you start taking production seriously, you’ll stop doing because you’ll definitely want more control over your sounds, which is what layering offers.
@@SebReaperGaming Not sure why you're bringing up acoustic kicks. As for 808s, a large number of people across genres, from Aphex Twin to countless hip-hop producers, have used pitched kicks for a very long time, so I don't know where to begin answering your question. The statement that people using 808s "can't actually produce well enough to do it correctly" is insulting toward a lot of successful artists.
@@bonchbonch Insulting or not he’s got a point, technically any ”long kick” could just be a short kick + a separate bass sound, and that’s ofcourse going to give more control. Then again there’s no real need to separate them when it comes to 808s usually
@@borrasca You have direct control over layers if you need it, but that hardly means it's the "correct" way to do kicks or that traditional 808s can't be controlled.
I have to disagree because context/genre matters. One reason that the Roland tr-808 caught drum machine on after its initial commercial failure is this: performers realized they could use the kick as the bass with a simple circuit bend/mod to extend the decay. Stylistically speaking, that tradition of using a kick as a bass or bass as a kick functionally works to great musical effect if done right. But I can respect that Joel personally doesn't like that tradition. Such a technique wouldn't work in most rock band contexts. I just hope people can see the difference.
definitely a genre-specific thing but yea, the kick stuff sounds about right. 808s and hardstyle kicks are definitely going to have a tonal factor to them where tuning the fundamental makes or breaks the track. the real lifesaver was the ozone discussion though, that's nuts
@@partlysimpson5154lol it really depends. My house tracks have highly saturated short kicks (actually almost all my tracks do) but I make my subs so prevalent that it doesn't matter 💀
What about tuning the 808 kick drum to different notes and using it as both the kick AND the bassline? This is what a lot of trap/hip-hop beatmakers seem to be doing these days...
@@KainRazielMT Totally agree. ANYONE can learn a DAW and throw sounds/synths/drums together to make a "track" - doesn't mean it's good or quality (I think most mainstream "EDM artists" fall into this category). But actually understanding the audio engineering, along with the music theory component, is imo what makes the mau5 such a phenomenal producer.
i love layering my kicks like this: one with a huge hpf, just for the attack and “click” one with emphasis on this higher-low range and “umph” of the sound a sub bass sound with short or long decay (depending on genre), sidechained to the “umph” kick, and with no or very little attack
I actually think it´s BS. You can hear when a kick is not tuned right. Listen to a track with a kick not tuned and the same track with a tuned kick. You can hear the difference instantly. People have been tuning their kicks for ages. Thats why you can tune your kick etc. on an TR808 or TR909. To each their own i guess.
@@floating.spheres2659 if you kill the trail then theres no particular note left to tune. Tuning a kick with no trail to fit a song isnt "tuning" but just finding a kick you like at that point. The crux of the problem is based on the idea that youve a long trail with audible sub and/or bass trails so youre tuning that, however your kick also containing your sub groove should be an artistic choice, not standard practice. So yes tune your damn kick if youre using it as a sub also, but also ask yourself if you want the sub to be part of the kick to begin with.
@@floating.spheres2659 those tr808 kicks are 1. popular in a completely different genre and 2. have a decent amount of pitch already, they aren't just a transient, you treat them more like bass notes
@@floating.spheres2659 hmm doesn't he literally say in the video if you are building off an 808 or something that's completely different? A lot of trap uses the 808 as the bass note so this advice does not apply there
Regardless of this being a good tip or not when it comes to tuning a kick, every sound has a fundamental note/tone. That’s why you get different pitches when you load a kick into a sampler and play on your keyboard. You will get different notes. Is it relevant to a track that you tune the kick? Depends on the style. For example in Big Room the kick has definitely a tone attached to it. I also found that tuning a kick is also helpful to make it fit the track better, and what I mean is that I’m not necessarily tuning it to the key of the track, but I just try different pitches (loading it into a sampler). To each his own. I completely agree with the length of a kick making a difference, especially when you have a bass line that complements it
I think it sounds a bit shitty because he filters it so that the audio coming from his studio monitors doesn't come through as loud. Might be wrong though
It's just clipping all over the place. It's probably not a bad mic and it's probably not the way he treats the signal. It just distorts because it can't handle the Mau5 shouting into it / the gain is just too high.
Weird take, kicks definitely deliver a lot of bass, in fact the best mixes carve out space properly in the kick and bass parts for one another so things don't phase-out or get all muddy.
I love this conversation….the “tuned” kick conversation…shit I will save people a lot of time…the 808 is a kick with a bass in one preset….make it work a certain way…that the people like….and distort it sometimes…y’all get the idea
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W3D1 | Fall | สัปดาห์ตัดสิน ทีมไปไฟนอล](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZBU3GyzqErI/mqdefault.jpg)
For what it's worth, I agree with this!
People are WAY too concerned with the pitch of short dance music kicks.
I would say kick pitching isn't necessarily a fundamental concept for EDM, but something to keep in mind. Let's say you like the transient and overall character of a kick, but for some reason the tone is a bit off with the mix - I 100% agree with Mau5 here - cut the lows, but use a spectrum analyzer to identify what the new fundamental pitch of the kick is. After the lows get cut, there's typically a secondary fundamental pitch that represents the tone of the kick... usually in the 80-170Hz range (unless you're using some really clicks kicks, then they go higher).
Adjust that new fundamental frequency so that it fits better with the key of your track. Typically I gravitate toward the root note or the 5th, depending on which one is closer to the original pitch of the kick. But... when it comes down to it... use your EARS. My tip is more a quick rule of thumb for finding something that will PROBABLY sound good to your ear.
I’d say just make sure the boom of your kick goes below the most of your bass notes
I mean you can't just pitch kick samples around either, then they really will sound bad.
@@TheOfficalAndI If you’re talking about messing with the sound of the transient of the kick there are plenty of things you can do.
You could use a pitch envelope in a sampler so the sample starts at the original pitch and modulates the pitch for the tail of the kick. You could use something like Ableton’s frequency shifter which will affect the low frequencies a lot more than the high frequencies. You could layer a transient of a kick with the tail of a kick so you can transpose the tail without affecting the transient. You could synthesize a kick so you have complete control over the tuning of the tail.
Whether you should worry about it or not depends on the style of kick, in my opinion. But if you do want to, there’s plenty ways of tuning a kick so it still sounds good.
If you use typical Electro House kick, short ones - sure, but not 808-ish or Big Room kicks
"A kick drum is not a bass line"
Hardstyle would like to have a word with you
I was gonna comment something about Hardstyle kicks, now some kid is gonna go make a hardstyle track and wonder why it sounds funky especially at the climax/melody part lol
bong bong bong bong bong
The kicks nowadays sucks from most producers by the way. Also musically a lot of the new releases suck enormously. It doesn't matter, Hardstyle always comes in almighty power after few seasons.
techno too
@@raptor.1 Why do they suck? Just getting into music production (not EDM-heavy though) and am curious to hear why you think that
Kicks makes Kicks, Bass makes Bass, use Kicks for Kicks, use Bass for Bass haha
no dude, when i hear HEY THIS NEW DUBSTEP BASS and it's literally just screeching mids and highs.. "BASS" 😂😂LMAO
@@DarkMetaOFFICIAL you just refer to it like that in dubstep.
I bet the guy who showed you the bAsS has way more sound design skills than you tho
@@nebroskitheraut6705 you have literally nothing to base that on but ok lol
@@nebroskitheraut6705 no. i'm not talking about referring to it. i mean literal mid range. no bass. you don't read what i said.
@@DarkMetaOFFICIAL they're called mid basses, because they don't sound melodic and pretty, you wouldn't use a mid range bass patch to play some top melodies, but I get what you mean, I have a personal distaste for those kinds of sounds but they're talked in that sense for a reason, they're mid range that would match or even contain in the patch a sub bass
Guys like deadmau5 are my heroes. In a sea of endless pro tips and tutorials out there on how to make “the perfect” track, it’s refreshing to have someone filter out the bullshit which there is a LOT of out there.
80% of "pro tips" I've seen recently are people who definitely aren't pro.
@@JimboCruntz that's a big fact.
Heroes save people.
@@hearmenow909 He saves you a lot of time
@@JimboCruntz100% agree! And that’s where all the “pro tips” come from… amateurs lmfao Pros don’t call them pro tips, they just treat it as info
Legendary song artist with constant mic clipping is my new favorite combination
ahaha - or is that combo the ultimate troll?
He's so annoyed he forgot to put a limiter on
@@aMolleTargate Depends on where in the chain the clipping is happening.
Needs a d esser
Big deal, i can still understand what he’s saying. Its just a talk back
"Kicks make kicks. Bass makes bass. Use bass for bass."
- Deadmau5
I think that is a Commandment, isn't it?
@@technober > Kick is another wordt for BASSdrum
Yes
> they need to be tuned to fit.
No, watch the video
> Kick needs to be in tune with root or 5th.
No, watch the video
> Kicks are typically falling down in pitch too but where the end is the part which needs to be in tune..
No, watch the video
This is why he ends up making generic soulless music
and hes completely wrong, a kick has plenty of sub bass, if its out of harmony you will get phasing issues and it will make the speakers work harder / meaning you wilil lack in loudness. deadmaus is simply arrogant and wrong
Unless it's "Autonomous" by Billain. He gets a free pass.
This is pure gold. Anyone at this level sharing their knowledge just as if you were sitting in the studio with them is a true gift. Thank you!
Thank you! I'm also very grateful the best producers in the world are sharing their tips!
To me, deadmau5 always comes off as someone who would rather be contrarian than informative. Adjusting the pitch of a kick is as good a tool as any other when it comes to dailing in the sound you are going for.
@@nicedevices What do you mean by "dialing in the sound you're going for"? What sound do you get from a 'tuned' kick vs an 'out-of-tune' kick?
@@sanjacobs6261 In other words, tuning it until It sounds good. Maybe that happens to be the root or the fifth. Maybe not. There's two things to consider. First, there's a given range where the kick will do it's job. Too high it won't push any air and too low it will be undefined and lack punch. The other thing to consider is the actual pitch of the kick and how it relates to the key of the song. Longer kicks end up sounding cluttered if they hit certain notes that doesn't work with the bass. So usually one must compromise. Tweak and listen. The tuning knob of a kick drum is far more important than an eq for shaping the sound in my opinion. That's why I think blanket statements such as "don't tune your kick" can be misleading. I think "don't obsess about your kick drum always being in key with the rest of the track" would be more helpful advice.
@@nicedevices So with a short kick, that sweeps and ends too fast to be tonal, you'd agree that tuning doesn't really apply, but pitching it to taste still makes sense?
It's always a treat to listen to learned masters muse about their craft.
You can hear that the reason he's so critical and harsh, is because he genuinely cares to make the music as good as it can be.
like you could say one music-related word to him like "tell me about sampling", and he could go off for hours on all of his opinions on that thing, and it's so great because he really loves it
crazy that he has a million dollar studio and uses gaming chairs lol.
Bro you are everywere
Look up the origin of his name, and then you'll get why he is using a gaming chair.;))
It's just an educated guess, though.
Crazy that he has every single eurorack module ever made, but I never see a single patchcable in or around his system
@@gherat used to watch him stream before twitch was a thing, and lemme tell ya, he would spend hours and hours just fucking around with the patches
Mcnasty what's crazy is that you have so much high frequencies on your mic. Can you please make it sound less "narrow"? Bring up the bass in your voice bro, it's really not that pleasant listening to you on podcasts, it's as if you care a little too much about EQing your mic, it's just overcooked, brother.
Oh and thanks for the funny content, even tho it's braindead memes nowadays (comparing to old siege vids) it still brings a laugh and makes eating and working more interesting.
Oh yeah and nice latest release, the track is booooming. Are you producing just yourself or you have a group of sound engineers to help ya? Any way - respect on making sound 💪
I knew it!! Now I can sleep in peace
Wkkwkwk.
Sembunyikan balasan
Yep!
X2
Lah
Short Kicks and Headroom, a healthy well-balanced audio diet
Gate game.
McSoft clipper
Healthy diet, rarely followed 😉
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me: tuning the kick isn't about "making it a note in the key", tuning is just another tool (and usually the first) along with eq, compression, envelope editing, whatever. It's about getting that thump to climb in bed with the bass, all grease and punch, no friction or dissonance... unless friction and dissonance is what the track wants, but as much as I love a little rub I don't usually want any in the bottom 2 octaves, too messy.
Kush has spoken
THANK YOU!!! This is a way more accurate way to describe it.
Great explanation, thanks for sharing!
So well said tho...lol u really described what u were trying to say perfectly I must say
@@no-name168 a big part of making drums sit well in the mix is tuning them. Pitching them slightly up or down. People do this with real drum sets. Forcing yourself to fix everything later in the mix down when you could just do it properly early on is just making things more difficult for yourself. There are things that eq and compression can’t fix
" The kick is too much "
" Don't pitch your kicks "
*_laughs in hardstyle and gabber_*
That's a bass
@@LennartIbanez Most of the time in Gabber and Hardstyle, kicks and bass are one and the same. Much more so in Gabber, where hardstyle has this hybrid weird kick with a long bassy tail that is usually what's pitched but still part of the kick
"the kick is too much"
Uptempo: hold my beer, joint, and xtc
Hardstyle laugh: Bwoo-ar bwoo-ar bwoo-ar
Both of them sucks imo
Just kidding, i love Hardstyle ❤️
Not my kind of music at all, but I've always admired his stance on the loudness war and dynamics.
I was really into him at one point, not so much these days but I’ll always appreciate his knowledge and talent.
He’s a major dude
I was never into edm (still am not, generally), until my jazz pianist father of all people showed me "FML" in 2009 or 10, and we were both fascinated by it. From there I started watching Joel produce all night in the summer of 2012, and got super into his musical style and approach. Finally got to see him at red rocks in late 2019 and now my life is complete.
Lots of talented producers who make absolutely awful music out there and douchemouse is one of em
Technically, according to the Fletcher Munson curve, the louder the music the better, b/c you can differentiate the frequency bands more easily. However, the producer should not decide on the volume their work is heard at and when the listener turns the volume down to the same volume as a well produced track, it will sound worse in comparison
@@fungdark8270 i always thought he was a B major guy
Me, too lazy to tune my kicks: Heck yeah Joel spitting facts!
Oooh you have the old pfp again!
Why the hell would you want to tune your kick to a note? I dont get this at all
@@Multi-Waves_Sketchbook it’s new😭
@@Inflake what?! I thought this was the old one
Dammit.
Well I like it!
@@notoriusdrifter40 you tune your kicks to avoid dissonance in your basslines. Some people like that sounds but it'll ruin your bass tone
"Kicks dont make Bass"
Every Hardstyle Producer : "Hold my Sausage Fattener"
Kicks are generally atonal. Sometimes tuning it works, sometimes it doesn't. I mostly don't bother to tune it.
These edits are god-tier
Thanks, just trying to be helpful!
@@SolStateMusic We appreciate it greatly. Thank you for taking the time.
AGREED. Thank you for the efforts!
This is why I love deadmau5, he has so much knowledge about sound. And you can definitely hear that in his music.
actually this was the best advice that I ever learned about music production. it was always a mystery for me cause other "tutorials" always told me about how I should empathize low end, but the truth was, killing unnecessary low end was the solution. I'm making songs that I always wanted now thanks to Joel
It honestly depends. I’ve been a Hiphop producer for over 20 years and there are times where tuning a kick is actually better for the beat. Not so much for being in tune with the instruments but just fitting better with the track. Not all kicks are short 1/8 note hits from a real kit and they don’t all always have the same exact fundamental frequency and thus can benefit from a pitch adjustment when necessary. It’s not always needed on every track but it helps when it helps. Waves makes a newer plugin called Torque that helps with this during post processing.
I think Deadmau5 was talking specifically about the common EDM tip that "you should always tune your kick to fit in key with track". So i think your mindset is pretty similar.
*laughs in rock producer*
IDEK should be physically tuning the kit to the key of the track if you’re in rock
@@Viper-dz2kw wait thats a thing?
IDEK bro like, I don’t mean to be an ass but like how can you call yourself a rock producer if you don’t know how to tune a drum kit with a drum key, that’s like basic basic basic fundamentals
Always remember: Real kicks have curves!!!
Always remember: Real kicks are cylindrical and need tuning on both sides.
@@DankoHidalgo Based
@@DankoHidalgo real kick is hitting someone with your foot to cause injury or pain.
"A kick drum is not a bassline"
Extratone artists: "hold my beer"
Hold my speed
@@kalliboymusic unironically like this th-cam.com/video/KFQKjGP4iv4/w-d-xo.html
@@coocoo3336 it’s diabhara, of course you like it, system failure is another amazing song by him
I can't believe people love treating kick drums and bass instruments like the same thing just because they emit a similar audio frequency.
@@TheHippyHoppyHippo there is an entire genre around it
I don't even like Deadmau5, but I respect his knowledge and this is probably the best "how to make EDM kick" videos out there.
I'm glad you all got some good info from my demo, I'm REALLY happy that I got this feedback from Joel! My music has significantly improved and I hope that this helps n00b producers like me get closer to the sound that they are looking for.
Also for clarification that was one of my early attempts at techno, I lean more towards house and electro for my other tracks
Thanks for being part of this! Best of luck with your music
Don’t be fooled by people taking this advice as gospel. People just need to pay attention to what note is being played in the sub area, he’s advocating for having a bass play the note, instead of a kick sub alternating with the synth sub. Plenty of producers who are Grammy nominated and sell out shows tune their kicks and have that be the sub note on the beat (Disclosure for example).
Many of the folks in these comments are going to roll off the sub on their kicks, and their synth bass is not going to hit the beat every time and their going to have a “drop out” on that beat. Your technique is just fine, just needs to be an 1/8th note if anything.
Also, if your kick is clashing with your bass... try some sidechain. Not all sidechain has to be melodic-dubstep-pulsing, you can have your sidechain set up so it's dropping the bass by 30% when the kick hits or something.
"You can't use a kick drum for your bass"
The classic TR808/TR303 combo has entered the chat
hhaa you win
This is exactly why the 707 kick works so well. That, and most of the kits in the RY30.
Even more so, I've noticed that tuning a kick to a note that rubs against the key makes it sound more bold and can have a really cool effect when you use it sparingly
1:40 the true meta of all edm pro tips
Hardstyle is one of the few genres where it makes sense to tune your kick.
Kick TAIL
When we talk about Hardstyle I would say punch is the kick and tail is the bass. Hardstyle kick is very unique thing and should have it's own naming.
go off please
@@GatosMedia coming up with name that make sense is hard:)
@@GatosMedia What about Tuning Bass?
Deadmau5: a kick can be a fundamental but that very seldomly works
Roland TR-808: Am I a joke to you?
haha love it!
An 808 typically makes the bassline, that part you pitch, and you layer a kick with it. That way the kick doesn't change pitch and stays consistent. And cutting off the transient of the 808 is a good idea, too. You're welcome, champ.
@@Garrym3k That is actually quite rare in Miami bass or in 80s electro or freestyle. More often than not an 808 (sometimes a long one too)is the kick and a 303 or a Juno is the bass line.
@@ChristianBurrola the thing is the 303 wasn't used for full on bass and tended to be something that sat just above it - like a rhythm guitar line. turning up the resonance to get the acid sound generally cut out the bass, but this was okay because the 808 kick filled it out.
Generally i do prefer to use "bass for bass" but there's no point invalidating this way of doing things just because it's an older way of doing it with the they had at the time
@@ChristianBurrola That! And often the 808 was the kick AND the bass at the same time. In Miami Bass and other music as well in the 80s. I’m okay with people using the term 808 for sub because nowadays that’s how most people use it but when people don’t even know that the 808 is actually a kick/been used and refered to as a kick for years/ considered and labeled as a kick by Roland... then maybe they should explore the concept a bit more...to say the least 🤪
dude, adding the eq visual? you're going super saiyan 3
I synthesized my first kicks this week and I was so certain I had made them too short but this makes me feel a lot better about that lol.
Reference tracks can help you check too
Depends on the genre
@@SolStateMusicAs in look at the waveform of a track and try and find a kick played by itself at any moment? I imagine that’s the only way to take a look at the kick an artist used’s waveform. If the kick isn’t solo’d, you’ll just see summed signal.
Most people think that, if your track is in C, you gotta make sure your kick is hitting that note. Tuning a kick sample is more like rising or lowering it a few cents so it sounds better in the context of your track. It's all about sound and color. Forget about the note!
Legend has it. Word on the street is tuning a kick up by 666 semitones makes it inaudible.
In a world where you can create virtually any sound from any source sound, tuning a typical EDM style kick for most genres is almost entirely redundant.
Shit, you can make a hihat fit a song as a kick if you wanted.
Pick a solid kick and shape to fit. Job done.
Do i understand any of this ? No
Is this helpful in anyway of my daily life or future life ? No
Am i enjoying this Video ? Absolutely
"USE BASS FOR BASS", this must be sampled and used before a drop
Zomg drops all day drop drop drop drop drop drop another drop drop drop drops on drops
Brother I'm pretty sure that was on "BassKillaz 4000 Volume 31" back in about '95 or '96!
omg yes
corny
Even 10 years ago, this still would have been cringe.
I’ve never liked long kicks, short ones that are clean and cut through a mix are infinitely better.
It depends a little on the kick, but I quickly stopped worrying about tuning and filtering harmonically on most drums, I listen for this stuff, but most of the time it's really not bad, and better to listen for the character of the sound at it's pitch instead. Even for open hats and synths that have things like osc sync going on etc., some weird frequencies aren't necessarily bad if they're not too loud. Listen to an e-piano, some bit-crushed sounds and prepared pianos etc., it can be quite messy and atonal, but that's where the character comes from. You can get away with more on transients, and by having various weird frequencies that draw attention away from each other, none of them loud, in my experience.
I believe the tuning your kick in EDM came from the Big Room House era, where the kick was the bass. This also applies to Trap / EDM where the 808 is the kick.
When I make trap I usually just use a short kick for a transient and don't worry about it being tuned.
@@unisonproto trap music has changed a lot 808s and kicks are being used together more frequently for punch you just have to duck the 808 properly
@@jayrillabeats2059 I made trap the other day and just put a slight attack on the 808. That said, even without it, it sounded fine.
@@unisonprotoyou gotta sidechain the 808 tho, if u don"t the mix is gonna get fucked up
@@obeseduck3861 Kenny Beats would like to have a word with you
Still love the fact this guy loves spreading the knowledge he has, So many producers are just all about secrets and keeping things to themselves.
In metal, most producers have been sharing their knowledge for a long time.
Important distinction: He's not saying "never change the pitch of your kick sample". There's a big difference between trying to tune your kick based on the key of the song, and just pitching the sample until you like the sound of it. It's only the first thing there that is a waste of time with short nice healthy kicks.
This! My fav comment I've seen here. I pitch samples often in my lo-fi/synthwave tracks I've produced recently, but never in response to the key of the song - I normally write the drum track before anything else and haven't even decided what key the song is in. Letting the kick just be a transient and filling it out with some type of sine wave or whatever for the extra sub content if you need it works well beyond just EDM, since you can shape the decay of the sine wave to match your needed sub oomph. Typically if the kick is longer and you're working with a less bassy genre, then people should just go with that. Anyway, appreciate the point you've made here!
I feel like it really depends on the genre you're making. Sometimes you don't want a super short kick, in which case you should tune it, so it isn't out of phase with your bass
moral of the story: dont take tips from random ass youtube "producers". The mau5 knows the way
Frrr, its like modern day snake oil
There’s another video with Steve Duda where Deadmau5 says he tunes his kicks.
Moral of the story: there are no hard rules.
@@TjMoon91 he said in this video there are examples where you would, but in general you usually shouldn't have to.
Eh, both Secrets of Dance Music Production and Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio to do it. Armin, Above & Beyond, Darude, Dieselboy, and many more have all said to do it. The only time I wouldn’t tune a kick is if the key of the kick is in the scale of the song.
Once I stopped giving a shit about tuning my kicks and made sure I'm just getting the punch out of it, was when my tracks started to sound much fatter and no longer restrict my creativity.
Tuning your kicks was definitely one of the words pieces of advice I ever heard, especially on a song that's more than just one single chord.. which is majority of music.
While it may not be necessary, I definitely don't know about "worst piece of advise" lol. If your kick is very tonal (aka sine wavy after the transient) then it can totally make sense to tune your kick to the root note or even 5th of the key you're in. If your song is made up of more than one chord like you said, the kick hitting at the root note of the key should still be consonant with your chords. I don't tune my kicks all the time, but the theory definitely makes sense when applied circumstantially.
@@BIG_PASTA I generally don't use tonal kicks because then you often have to retune them for the different bass notes of chord progressions, which sort of makes them lose the integrity of the transient / top. So I personally try to stick with something more punchy where the tone isn't very evident and use sub bass to fill in the bottom similar to what Joel says here
@@DDRMR Yeah no doubt, makes sense. Like I said, I think it's very much circumstantial :/
@@DDRMR you can always slice the kick into transients and body and only tune the body 😉
@@iamdannywyatt no joke I've tried that before my dude! However as soon as you repitch the body, the relationship between the transient and body changes and you often get a weird incompatibility between the zero points that more trouble to deal with than just using the transient of the kick + a different bass or a shorter kick to begin with hahaha. I'm sure there's ways to make it work, but I've always found them to be more of a hassle than it's worth so I don't worry about tuning of a kick unless it's obviously jarring against the song
As an Ozone 8 user, I really appreciated that bit at the end. I came to the same conclusion too that it just sets things a bit too hot.
Facts. What I will say though, and this applies especially for heavier genres like dubstep, is try tuning your snares as long as they have a lot of mid meat. Do it by ear. May find it sounds better with the original fundamental but often times you may find another pitch that sounds better. Sometimes that may end up being the key of the track or 7semitones up/5 down and sometimes is none of those but its 100% worth playing around with. The problem with tuning your kicks, unless you are making them from scratch (witch is a lot of fun to do btw) is when you start repitching them more than 1 or 2 semitones they can start to sound hella wonky, especially when pitching down bc you lose all the high end, one of the most important ranges for a good punch. Not to mention that transient gets stretched out. As long as you kick and sub aren’t fighting you should be good even if your kick is in a different key
This is such an incredible channel. Thanks for doing what you do mate.
Glad you enjoy it! Thanks your support as well!
Ok,, the man himself had ton Of experience on producing,, sitting infront of Dolby and PMC system (very expensive custom made) he can't go wrong
Gotta love a passionate Joel rant about production.
damn thanks for putting clear diagrams of every little thing he said how the fuck could i possibly pay attention for 5 minutes without that
Me, using the same stock tr-707 kick for 4 years straight: *chuckles*, I'm in danger !
I have like literally 2 dozen kick samples that I have saved & use and that's it. That is more than enough to take 2-3 kicks from each time for layering & tuning to each other other to make one decent enough kick. If you've got a sampler, a few kicks can be combined in almost an infinite amount of ways to create new kicks every time. It's funny that people will buy a sample pack with over a thousand kicks, yet you only hear a handful of kicks throughout electronic music.
@@i-never-look-at-replies-lol I even use only the stock 707 Live drum rack :) or AT LEAST the microbrute 🤷♂️
707 i tend to go 909 haha
707 snare gives me life
Actually interesting advice on using Ozone. I have it, used it once or twice but it just didn't sound right at all out of the box so gave up and went back to my old trusty tools. I'll try again with giving it some more headroom!
Good luck! Let us know if it helps
3:01 "I did play with O-zone"
My brain: Ah, yes, he played with the "Numa Numa Ei" guys
>sells music production course:
"Don't use presets"
- Explains clearly that they use presets on mastering plugins
I bought a couple of pro bongos a long time ago, and I asked the guy in the percussion store "is there any way to tune them?" He looked at me like I was stupid and said "you dont need to tune your bongos. They are percussive, not melodic!"
Since then I rarely tune my percussive sounds to the music, but rather go for a tone that suits that percussive sound generally.
Good tip! Thanks
It depends on what kick you are using, some need to be tuned to the base note of the track, some don't. And kicks usually have lot's of bass in them, I don't know why he would say they don't.
He probably just wants to reiterate that a kick is a drum sound. It creates a nice attack or transient on the downbeats. It has low end, but isn’t “bass”.. it’s a drum and should be used like a drum.. just like if you hear someone performing live with an actual drum set
@@Xfilesfreak66 It's a drum with bass, no other way around it. Maybe some producers replace it with a click sound layered with a bass note. But for music in general a kick drum have bass, and it needs to be tuned sometimes. It might not be sub bass, but it's bass either way. Just search for "tune kick" and you will find this is something everybody from amateurs to professionals do, because in some cases the bass is tonal enough to be dissonant if it has the wrong pitch. It's just a silly thing of Joel to say because it might be true in his example but it's certainly not a rule for either EDM or other music, this will confuse beginners and get resistance from more experienced producers for sure.
@@bounzig Yeah, it probably depends on the type of music you produce. My music is more focused on the instrumentation and melodic structure, and the sound design usually comes after. Sometimes I will pitch a kick drum if it has too much low end, but I don't sit around trying to get it to match the pitch of my other instruments. Depends on the context you are using it in. That does make sense though. Thank you for the reply
It actually depends on the genre , in fast paced music like dnb you need to tune your kick to be in the scale of the bass since if it is not you can have phase issues !
I disagree, you can completely avoid phase issues with hard sidechain.
@@SolStateMusic well than you lose the movement of the drums with super hard sidechain also if you play music in a club you will have open space in sound and that empty space with the resonance of the club will make rumble
i produce neuro and this is untrue your kick should sit at 80-100hz nowhere below 80. i have seen so much sample packs with kicks sitting at 70 and even hitting at 50 and they are tottally useless for producing dnb. the shorter your kick the less it needs to be tuned actually. also sidechaining in dnb is not even necesarry because the sub and kick sits in difrend spaces on the frequency chart. its all about balancing the mix with eqing. i think some bigger dnb producers have ableton projects released you should check them out and solo the kick you're not gonna believe how thin it sounds on its own but in the full mix they sound big af
@@vincentvandeperre1670 Like when the kick is lower then like 80-100 ish, it is no longer a kick, it is a bass drum. You can use a bass drum instead of a kick if you had a bass that is sitting at like 100 hz or higher.
@@chent you're 100 % right
I was gonna talk about Phase issues and How a kick is not just a transient, it's a pitch drop of a sine wave... But EDM is different.
808s in trap music are also pitch drops so if you use the wrong kick with the 808 bassline, they can phase. But for EDM, if you're not side chaining, the kick and the sub bass won't clash (in most cases) because the sub bass is not a pitch drop, it's a stable pitch. I do agree with shorter kicks as well because of the space it gives, a few EDM producers agree on this actually.
For genre’s like psytrance, tuning the kick is required. Phase alignment with the kick and bass of psytrance is needed and to do that, you need to tune the kick.
when you've had 17 coffees and a line of coke
ahahaah
Imagine thinking that there is no need to tune kicks and pretending to understand how frequencies work then selling an entire course around this
@@akasickform Right, the guy has been fooling millions for the last 13 years, just became a millionaire out of nowhere. No reason, nope, has a ton of synths and kits, no reason. Ignorance sure is bliss, hatred sure is blinding.
@@akasickform yeah you’re right, you definitely know more than him and have spent many many more hours learning how to mix and compose I’m sure which is why youre just a bitch boi commenter on youtube and he’s a multimillionaire with billions of plays across all platforms
Joel is the kind of guy who has all the gear ever and he knows that it's not a replacement for basic knowledge.
legendary channel man. thank you for scouting these streams out & editing them for us
Thanks mate!
I didnt understand a god damn word he said. But i still like listening to joel talk
Before everyone stops tuning their kicks because of a TH-cam video, please realize it depends on whether or not your kick is long enough to have a discernible note, which many genres do.
I would put it this way: if the biggest problem in your track is that the kick isn't tuned correctly, you probably have a great track. If that's the problem, you don't have much of a problem. That said, yeah, if the kick is long, tuning can matter. But, do you really need that long kick? Maybe yes, maybe no. I would advise people to analyze the waveform of their favorite tracks: how long is the kick in a great-sounding, well-produced track?
Real kicks don’t have the low frequencies of basses, electronic kicks do. That said, is there any particular reason why you would use a “long kick” like an 808 instead of layering bass + kick? To me it feels like “I can’t actually produce well enough to do it correctly, so I’ll use this quick and dirty method” which, if you start taking production seriously, you’ll stop doing because you’ll definitely want more control over your sounds, which is what layering offers.
@@SebReaperGaming Not sure why you're bringing up acoustic kicks. As for 808s, a large number of people across genres, from Aphex Twin to countless hip-hop producers, have used pitched kicks for a very long time, so I don't know where to begin answering your question. The statement that people using 808s "can't actually produce well enough to do it correctly" is insulting toward a lot of successful artists.
@@bonchbonch Insulting or not he’s got a point, technically any ”long kick” could just be a short kick + a separate bass sound, and that’s ofcourse going to give more control. Then again there’s no real need to separate them when it comes to 808s usually
@@borrasca You have direct control over layers if you need it, but that hardly means it's the "correct" way to do kicks or that traditional 808s can't be controlled.
1:24 hardstyle has entered the chat
I have to disagree because context/genre matters.
One reason that the Roland tr-808 caught drum machine on after its initial commercial failure is this:
performers realized they could use the kick as the bass with a simple circuit bend/mod to extend the decay. Stylistically speaking, that tradition of using a kick as a bass or bass as a kick functionally works to great musical effect if done right.
But I can respect that Joel personally doesn't like that tradition. Such a technique wouldn't work in most rock band contexts. I just hope people can see the difference.
He's so right about bass overload. I'd rather hear a balanced track than distorted mud.
Yup. Biggest pet peeve with rap producers.
That’s subjective though, I prefer to hear lots of distortion
@@user-wp7zc1np9x Sure! I just don't like low frequency mud destroying a mix. :)
@@donaldpriola1807 you can have distortion without muddiness tho but yeah I get you
@@user-wp7zc1np9x Indeed.
I'm glad, I used to restrict myself to only using key-labelled kick samples - until I got sick of the limited number I had available 😂
There's a reason why the LInn Drum was huge in the 80s and Prince used the lm1 only and not a 909 or 808.
0:29 i have headphones and this is all I heard.
Raito's kick comes to mind as a great example of a kick that isn't bassy but puts huge momentum in the track.
This is honestly the most important lesson in my opinion.
A kick can make base in the lower ends so unless you eq that out, then yes a kick would then be more of a note to be tuned 💯
I agree with Deadmau5. I also sidechain the bass with the kick. Now that's genius!
definitely a genre-specific thing but yea, the kick stuff sounds about right. 808s and hardstyle kicks are definitely going to have a tonal factor to them where tuning the fundamental makes or breaks the track.
the real lifesaver was the ozone discussion though, that's nuts
*House tracks have longer decay on kicks, but yeah what is house music nowdays
@@partlysimpson5154lol it really depends. My house tracks have highly saturated short kicks (actually almost all my tracks do) but I make my subs so prevalent that it doesn't matter 💀
I love his energy and passion. We need more deadmau5
I had no idea what he was talking about. I just lov hearing experts nerding out about whatever pro shit they do
What about tuning the 808 kick drum to different notes and using it as both the kick AND the bassline? This is what a lot of trap/hip-hop beatmakers seem to be doing these days...
Deadmau5 really is a legend. He's on a completely different level than so many EDM artists
Might be because most "EDM" artists have no talent.
His new shit sucks
@@KainRazielMT Totally agree. ANYONE can learn a DAW and throw sounds/synths/drums together to make a "track" - doesn't mean it's good or quality (I think most mainstream "EDM artists" fall into this category). But actually understanding the audio engineering, along with the music theory component, is imo what makes the mau5 such a phenomenal producer.
@@7urbine deadmau5 isnt an edm artist
I think it really depends on the arrangement.
For punchy dance tracks where the kick can only occupy a short space - it’s not necessary.
I'd still tune any drum sounds, since the transient also sounds different at different pitches.
i love layering my kicks like this:
one with a huge hpf, just for the attack and “click”
one with emphasis on this higher-low range and “umph” of the sound
a sub bass sound with short or long decay (depending on genre), sidechained to the “umph” kick, and with no or very little attack
I hope people understand hes talking about the style of music he makes.
I thought he was talking about music production in general. But I guess that's why I thought his opinion seemed so ignorant.
I actually think it´s BS. You can hear when a kick is not tuned right. Listen to a track with a kick not tuned and the same track with a tuned kick. You can hear the difference instantly. People have been tuning their kicks for ages. Thats why you can tune your kick etc. on an TR808 or TR909. To each their own i guess.
@@floating.spheres2659 if you kill the trail then theres no particular note left to tune. Tuning a kick with no trail to fit a song isnt "tuning" but just finding a kick you like at that point.
The crux of the problem is based on the idea that youve a long trail with audible sub and/or bass trails so youre tuning that, however your kick also containing your sub groove should be an artistic choice, not standard practice. So yes tune your damn kick if youre using it as a sub also, but also ask yourself if you want the sub to be part of the kick to begin with.
@@floating.spheres2659 those tr808 kicks are 1. popular in a completely different genre and 2. have a decent amount of pitch already, they aren't just a transient, you treat them more like bass notes
@@floating.spheres2659 hmm doesn't he literally say in the video if you are building off an 808 or something that's completely different? A lot of trap uses the 808 as the bass note so this advice does not apply there
Regardless of this being a good tip or not when it comes to tuning a kick, every sound has a fundamental note/tone. That’s why you get different pitches when you load a kick into a sampler and play on your keyboard. You will get different notes. Is it relevant to a track that you tune the kick? Depends on the style. For example in Big Room the kick has definitely a tone attached to it. I also found that tuning a kick is also helpful to make it fit the track better, and what I mean is that I’m not necessarily tuning it to the key of the track, but I just try different pitches (loading it into a sampler). To each his own. I completely agree with the length of a kick making a difference, especially when you have a bass line that complements it
Good input! "Can be helpful to pitch, but not a must"
Dude legit said “sandblasting the curves off your dynamic range.” Lmao this is why I love Joel.
That is one of the reasons i love him. He knows what he does. He his the freaking DM5
Now with all that great gear wouldn't you expect Deadmau5 to have a decent-sounding mic 🧡
I think it sounds a bit shitty because he filters it so that the audio coming from his studio monitors doesn't come through as loud. Might be wrong though
It's just clipping all over the place. It's probably not a bad mic and it's probably not the way he treats the signal. It just distorts because it can't handle the Mau5 shouting into it / the gain is just too high.
it's like a rich person just wearing a simple shirt
Weird take, kicks definitely deliver a lot of bass, in fact the best mixes carve out space properly in the kick and bass parts for one another so things don't phase-out or get all muddy.
Mixing engineers tune kicks all the time. He's right about the other stuff but tuning kicks is a common and good thing to do.
"You basically have to write your Track around a kickdrum [...]" Oh my god he just invented Techno 😁
I know I literally died and said “uh I do this every time I make techno!”🤣
"Dude... shut up!" 🤣 haha love this man
This video should be seen 1000x more than it currently has.
I love this conversation….the “tuned” kick conversation…shit I will save people a lot of time…the 808 is a kick with a bass in one preset….make it work a certain way…that the people like….and distort it sometimes…y’all get the idea
Kick is kick!! *insert Mr. Incredible meme*
martin garrix disliked dis video
😂😂
Agreed, I prefer kicks under 800ms. When I used longer kicks I found it had phase issues more often.
funny because he used a long kick in the track : Melleefresh - Hey Baby
606 has a perfect kick, it’s literally just a transient. Kinda sounds like a balloon popping. 🙃
Hey do you agree that if your kick is detuned by like 4000 semitones it won't sound good?