1:55 thankkkk youuu. Yes. I'm a little tired of baritones that use fry or subharmonics with their mouth in the mic... Edit: 08:00 yesss. Totally agree with you. I can hit that b1, but I'm clearly a bass-baritone. My lowest resonant note on any day is maybe an F2, although I can go lower... One thing to hit a note, another to sustain it or project it
What's wrong with subharmonics? It's extrimely difficult technique that takes tones of practice to use in public. I've been practicing for 2 years and have only used it twice in a public. Nearby a campfire with a company and in front of my class. After the second performance (In front of my class) I was literally shaking.
@@rtsbass7829 my problem is not subharmonics or fry perse, rather that there are people that are clearly bass-baritones at best and claim they are basses. Yeah, I know it takes practice and can be used for great effects live off-mic, but call it what it is and call yourself what you are. Cheers, man. I wish you all the best and good luck in all of your endeavours. No hate here, btw. 🍻
Yep that was my issue growing up. I can go low as I want, especially since younger ages, but I cannot sing below a G2. People always would say I’m a bass but my comfort level is mid/high tenor range even if I talk in an f2 typically.
I love to study about male bass voices and they never knew how to answer me what the difference between a Basso Profondo and an Oktavist. Your explanation was very clear and to the point. I think it's unfortunate that on the internet there are many people who don't understand absolutely anything about the voice and teach them how to be a Bass. Oh my God! working with the voice is no joke, you don't become a singer overnight and that is very dangerous and having a professional like you here talking about this gives us a lot of security.
@@eternalmourning9613 Can you post videos of yourself singing? I do not have authority to say whether you're a bass or a baritone of some sort but I am still curious :)
Depending on context certain definitions might immensely vary on meaning... An Operatic "Basso Profondo" usually sings LowEb(2) to High F#(4) can exceptionally go as low as a CounterLowC(2) (it's usually for some "oppure" notes that are not 100% demanded anyway, rarely it's a C2 written in the score); has to have a very strong, easy, resonant and projected LowF (F2) he should be able to sing in f (forte); should be able to project a great amount of harmonics and volume through his whole vocal range, showing a dark, round almost praeternatural kind of low voice which not always needs to have a very beautiful timbre in order to be recognised as a good Basso Profondo. Please note that certain roles that Giuseppe Verdi explicitly wrote for "Basso Profondo" might sometimes have a very high tessitura and strong sustained extreme high notes, those roles might be so difficult to sing that a baritone student could easily strangle himself trying :) On the other hand a microphonic USA folk singer Deep Bass in a kind of oktavist and usually sings one octave lower than an Operatic Basso Profondo (going as low as a CounterLow F(1) or lower than that but very rarely singing on higher tessitura and anyway not possessing that kind of voice and technique a Basso Profondo would have); a folk music Deep Bass is also using a completely different technique and completely founding his voice on microphonic technique and amplification. Then Ortodox Counter-Low Oktavist Basses (I believe you are calling them "ContraBasses") are a different thing again, to me. My point is that those definitions get mixed together on the internet :)
Me, for example, I studied traditional opera singing as both baritone and bass and if I hadn't interrupted career (due to health concernes) but had instead kept building my voice I'd have become some sort of lirico-spinto (or perhaps dramatic) low baritone and lirico-spinto (or perhaps dramatic) Bass-baritone (I totally am an in-between voice and had a very metallic, bronze-like resonance, not very warm or round or dark but extremely resonant and buzzy with a strong low register, thick and bronze sounding middle register and a high register coming earlier than your usual baritone, more like where a bass would start singing high notes). In the morning I can sometimes vocalise as low as touching a CounterLow Bb(1) maybe sometimes even A1 without vocal frying (we're talking lil burpy notes anyway, not vocal fry but not resonant at all); when technique holds I should be able to vocalise as High as touching a tenor High C(5) and when younger I'd actually touch a few semitones higher than that (I'm talking about touching a note while vocalising, not properly SINGING a note, two completely different things). I'd never say I'm a Basso Profondo tho because I'd look like a mosquito and I know my Low F2 would never be (never had become anyway) LOUD as in f (forte)... nor I'd call myself an oktavist because I can sing freely with a lot of power, control, resonance, projection and timbrical game while making no kind of effort at all only between Low G(2) and D(3) while a real oktavist would have that "total no effort" quinta of his voice sit at least 5 or 6 semitones lower... I see on the Internet sometimes a few basses using a combination of technique (subharmonics for example), microphonic technique and sound engineering to name themselves "oktavists" which I honestly think they are not, not entirely at least.
Hello my friend. Nice to meet a professional operatic singer. I will mention only about the contra bass voice. To be a contra bass has only to do with your resonators and body, and offcoarse the contra notes. The sound of a contra bass is like a subwoofer from a surround system. Resonant it is, but not the loud type, it is the wide, warm type that covers everything without knowing exactly from were the sound comes.
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris yes, it is a very well known phenomenon in acoustics and physics. Relating it to human voices it's specifically the kind of attribute I do not possess, id est a set of harmonics laying extremely low and if possible an ABSENCE of high and very high harmonics (my voice had very strong high harmonics). That's because the lower the sound the widest its wave is and below a certain threshold of Hertz it's impossible for human ears to pinpoint the exact point of origin of a sound (we'd need to have our ears a couple meters apart instead of some 20 centimeters apart). In Opera (Traditional/Lyric sometimes called "Belcanto") singing we try to find the exact opposite set of harmonics since we specifically need very strong and sounding formants around 1500 and 3-4k Hertz (other harmonics higher and lower than those will define timbre quality but for example my specific voice, even after having studied, never developer very low harmonics; ofc harmonics will always sit higher than the fundamental formant wave which is the note). I'm liking your channel
Anyway an update: after having cured some health problems (some serious, some other less so) I discovered my lower range widened and became also easier and more accessible. Still I'm a bass-baritone, not a real tiefer bass/basso profondo (I lack the kind of resonance, sound, loudness and uniformity of solid round dark timbre to sing say as a Wagnerian dramatic tiefer bass) but I discovered my range is mostly G1-A4 which sounds incredible to me if I go back to my days as a youth when my lower register was actually so wimpy for a "a real bass"... I can still touch very high notes but now that my health improved I believe I should try to re-learn singing in this whole body, I believe I shall eventually learn how to very reliably hit a proper High Bb in a proper operatic sound if I fix certain problems and tensions.
Thank you for clearing up my doubts ,you have a beautiful family to be honest and oh man i wish to have a calming yet intimidating voice like yours.You are truly blessed and i was very lucky to have found your channel
Thank you. I am lucky that you and all the others have found me because you are giving me the strength to do things and to fight with myself to achieve all these. It is difficult to live in a place like Greece where there are no choirs to participate as an oktavist or basso soloist.
Most people are 1-2 voice types higher than they think they are. Ex: most "baritones" today are really spinto/dramatic tenors, most "dramatic tenors" are really lyric tenors, etc. I'm a baritone, but I started as a bass because modern teachers are afraid of big voices and think anyone with a chest voice is deeper than they actually are. Listening to this video though, I feel like a tenor in comparison 🤣 (my lowest note is Eb2. My lowest GOOD note is F2)
Thank you Jason. Some times i imagine my self singing like a tenor, haha, you see we all are searching what we struggle to get. So we are equals!!! Greetings brother
Jason Black, I'll respectfully disagree with you that "most" baritones these days are dramatic/spinto tenors. Some definitely are, of course, because their high notes are sometimes undeveloped at the beginning of training, making some heavy-weight tenors (not actual weight but timbre-wise) be misidentified as baritones. But there are also lots of baritones in our world who are actually true baritones, they just haven't developed the scuro (darkness of timbre) that all opera singers need just yet.
@@bradycall1889 i'm a tenor who continuosly gets mistaken for a baritone because i have a resonant E2, sometimes even a resonant E flat, and also because i have relatively speaking quite alot of weight to my high notes. but between my very tenorish ring to my voice, aswell as my falsetto, and operatic projection range being somehwere around A2, and my passagio being at F4, and my voice overall still being light compared to many other voices.... it's obvious im a tenor but for 8 years people online have kept telling me i'm a baritone
@@Celatra A tenor with a resonant E2? Not impossible but I'm not 100% sure about you having a resonant E2, especially considering your speaking voice doesn't go down to a resonant E2 at all. Your speaking voice is higher than mine and yet I don't have a resonant E2. Also, most baritones have operatic projection somewhere down to between G2-A2 from what I know, it is not a tenorial trait. Ask any vocal pedagogy expert and they'll tell you the same thing. Tenors can, however, be resonant that low it's just not the norm not even for heldentenors. I say this as someone who has studied pedagogy for years now and has listened to many opera singers of different voice types and their low notes. Listen to operatic baritones and tenors to learn more. But yes some tenors are confused as baritones, unfortunately, and aren't being trained in the right fach. I don't think "most" baritones these days are undeveloped tenors, but some definitely are.
@@Celatra Also, trust me, I'm classically trained lol (I mean my training isn't over, but still). Also, falsetto has nothing to do with being a baritone nor a tenor. I believe you that you're a tenor though because as you've said, you've been told by multiple vocal teachers that you're a tenor and that your passaggio is at F#4 or F4. That is a tenor voice.
My ranking of top five (maybe six) Oktavists are: . Mikhail Zlatopolsky . a tie between Vladimir Pasyukov and Paul Myhalik . Yuri Wichniakov . a tie among Mikhail Kruglov, Glenn Miller and Vladimir Miller . What is your ranking of top five Oktavists of all time?
Hello David. Thanks for the post. If i have to be fair, every one of the oktavists you mentioned, are very different in any aspect. So, Zlatopolsky is the strongest and very rare type, Pasyukov had the bassiest (very warm) timbre (from those of your list), Myhalik had the most brutal timbre. From the other 4, Mr Glenn is the strongest and more consistent in performance (he will deliver the low notes no matter what, very gifted), and Mr Vladimir, Mikhail and Yuri are very known and good professionals in their area. Now I want to confess my experience. A true oktavist (like those 6), have the gift that God Gave them but this is not enough. There is a part in your life where you have to decide the path you will follow. Zlatopolsky had a very beautiful voice as a soloist but they sacrificed him to be the subwoofer in every choir. So his gift went there. His voice was working in the contra oktave mostly. Pasyukov was also a soloist with different path. He wasn't the one that could destroy the last note, so his voice was working mostly in the low oktave. Vladimir and Mikhail are mostly soloists and they suffer in the contra oktave because you will have to choose in the end, you can't have the strongest contra oktave and be a soloist also. Vibrato kills the strong oktave. I hope that get my point. Your are becoming what you are choosing, you can't have everything, that is why we can only say - who is my favorite, not the best because if they all were working in the same field then we could compare them. Offcoarse someone has darker timbre, someone is more resonant but believe me the line is very thin. Everything I say I have confirmed it with my voice and by searching all these extraordinary oktavists. Greetings my friend
I do sing! I'm a Baritone, who can very comfortably sing down to a G2. I'm also a Woman in my mid 30's! 😃 I've always had a deep voice, and I've grown to appreciate Bass. I love the majestic sound of the Basso Profundo; it's such an incredible Voice, and something amazing to experience! Greetings from The U.S.A.!
The closest in a female range that I have been told I am - I'm obviously WAAY below a Contralto; an Operatic Teacher told Me that I am a "Very Rare, Mezzo-Alto". He was impressed that I could hit Basso notes, but could project a Healthy, Hearty Baritone range with no problem. He said I am one Woman of roughly 10-thousand (1/10,000). And this vocal test was done when I was in Highschool, at the age of 15 years old. When I listening to your description of music//singing, as far as hitting a note, quality, and resonating; if just by hitting a note, I am most certainly a woman Bass, as I can EASILY hit very, very low notes . As far as quality, projecting, singing, holding the note, etc; I am a Baritone/Bass. This is where I would classify myself, and when I sang in church choir, I would be a 'Bass 1'. My Mother Herself is a Tenor, and a wonderful one at that. My Father, is a Bass, who can project/sing as a Marvelous Baritone. He has a Hearty, deep, round tone to his voice that is absolutely magnificent.
@@lynnkay417 I am so happy to read a woman's comment in my channel. You are amongst the 3% of the women that visiting my channel. You have a very rare voice indeed. I wish the best for you and your family and I hope to hear you sing. Greetings from Greece
Maybe I really could be a basso profundo in the future. Because my low notes are resonant without even pressing my voice. Moreover I could descend to B1 contra with resonance it's just a bit weak. And I'm only 18 years. I can feel the resonance even when I'm talking. It's like vibrations throughout your whole body, isn't it, Mr. Ioannis
You are my new idol. I'm 17 and can hit a B1, I'm working on my resonance and most of my friends and my teacher say that it is sounding good, but I still need to practice. Also can I ask, did you throughout your teens have a lower voice or did it start then and as you got older after your teen years did it continue to get lower, with practice?
Thank you for your kind words my friend. My voice was strong and bassy from when i was a kid. This is only from what i remember other people telling me, you sound like your daddy (he has a bassy and loud voice), and i was 13. But i never wanted to use my voice back then, so i never tried to hit low notes. I was just a guy with naturally strong and bassy voice
Here to learn, i´ve recently joind my church´s choir. I´m definetely a baritone, don´t know any more specifics than that, but i want to learn to hit lower notes, to add in the choir melody and overall feeling.
People get wrapped up in who can sing the lowest. I can hit a B -1 on a mic, doing double subharmonics... doesn't mean I am actually going to be able to use it in a song. For me, my sweet spot is A1-F3; I consider myself a basso profundo, even though I can get into Oktavist territory... doesn't make me one, nevertheless.
Thank you, so true. The ability to sing words very low is unique. Evan Redroff's my man.....Ernie Ford more a barratone but sings low sustainably however unable to drop an octavive and sing the same song.
Я могу предложить такое определение: бас профундо, это бас, который наравне с басом кантанте, имеет обычный оперный диапазон F2 - F4. Только у профундо тембр более насыщен низкими обертонами, чем у кантанте. Кантанте же это лирический бас, высокий. Почти баритон. Октавист же, это бас, поющий - очень верно отметил Яннис, именно поющий - ноты на октаву ниже обычного баса, откуда и прошло его название - октавист. Одним словом он должен петь ноты до F1. Вот и всё. Естественно запас по диапазону должен быть у любого голоса, тем более у оперного. Обычно в консерваторию голоса имеющие меньше природных двух с половиной октав не берут. Яннис, большое спасибо за исключительно качественный материал, отличные видео! Буду рад сотрудничать со специалистом такого калибра! PS Про толщину голосовых связок давно знал и очень рад услышать, что есть реальный человек, у которого это так и есть. Обратный пример, кстати, - Паваротти. Это тенор с басовыми голосовыми связками. И, кстати, есть ещё русский оперный бас Михайлов, с теноровыми голосовыми связками.
Thank you my friend. It is an honor for me to if we collaborate for my future videos in translation. I think that if I had Russian tags and subtitles i could have more viewers from Russia
I personally know some basses in my academy and their natural range goes down to D2/C#2. Even my teacher bassbaritone which completly doesnt know anything about oktavists goes down to B1 during speaking. F2 is the lowest note maybe for lyric bass baritones and thats it
Forget defining them. I want to learn how to be able to achieve that level of range. 😅 When my throat muscles are fully relaxed (mostly after a good night’s rest), I can hit B1. But I want to go lower. I’ll be content with hitting G1.
Thank you, explained like I haven't heard before. Basso profundos being soloists/performers. Anyone have any advice on getting vibrato below Eb2? I can hit notes loudly down a long ways below that, but I can't find vibrato.
Well the depth and timbre of your voice varies and changes by age, but the most important thing is to relax your voice as you sing, and learning/practicing subharmonics can also further lower your voice.😊
If I had to put it simply to someone how to distinguish between an Oktavist and a Profundo, I'd tell them that all Profundi are (or can be) oktavists (at least with training on how to project) but that there are some Oktavists who aren't Profundi. Some aren't even regular basses. Examples: take Pavel Myakotin, for instance. He's a low baritone with an extended mixed chest/fry range (down to Bb1) and subharmonics down to F#1. Also, Paul Myhalik used some kind of overtone singing most of the time rather than modal or mixed. Also, Avi Kaplan has some experience as an oktavist and DOES have a genuinely low range, but he's more like a regular bass than a Profundo. Those are Oktavists but not Profundi, though plenty of Oktavists ARE, such as the two Millers, Zlatopolsky, Chandrowsky, Pasjukov, etc.
@@davidfernandez1992 just asked you , I'm happy that an Indian watching this kind of videos 😀😀 where do you stay in India???i hope you are from south india because you look like an malayali
Thank you for explaining this, absolutely the most informative video on the difference of the voices! I'm a low baritone, and wish I could sing this low and resonant, but I definitely like being able to sing most of the male vocals I come across in music. I have put effort into reaching lower notes like A1 with a morning voice (definitely not nearly as loud as a true bass singer), but when I did so I notice that my talking voice was getting lower. Is this change permanent or just a perception when speaking with a relaxed voice because I'm actually hitting lower frequencies with ease? I really don't want to lose my current speaking voice but I also want to be able to sing lower notes with more intensity.
If you work low your voice will get used to this area, but there is a limit, the way your throat is constructed. No one can pass the limits nature gave. Nothing is permanent, only while we age our voice is gaining semitones low
Everyday I have been singing in the 2nd and 3rd octave, I have pretty much strayed away from 1st octove at least for now and focusing on resonation! Strengthening the vowels "O" "Ah" "Eh" etc and not using any technique. If I have to use any kind of technique, I correct myself and I go up higher. No strohbass...no subharmonics...just pure me.
Thank you my friend. He was both because he was also a soloist. He didn't have crazy soloist voice but he was strong with unique timbre. Greetings my friend.
I think there's a confusion with bass baritones too. Especially with music teachers. The bass baritone is a bass but not too much of a baritone. I think bass baritones can have more solo freedom to harmonize with tenors and baritones and still hit or sing a decent B1 to A1.
A teacher told me that i am a bassbaritone, knowing very well that i am an oktavist. I asked her why did she tell me this and the answer was, because your voice has the ability to sing a modal A4 in an operatic repertoir, after the proper training offcoarse. So, the term is used to classify what someone can sing in opera, not what note can sing in a choir. She said, indeed your are an oktavist, but your vocal ability is of an basso profundo & a bass batitone
That’s me I think. Hate to be weird bc idc about views but I have 2 videos on my page of singing, one is a Mr grinch by Boris. I’d consider myself bass baritone as I can reach into high tenor range honestly easier than the bass noted but I talk in an A3 or G2 depending on if I have smoked within the last 24 hours. Never for a second thought I was a profundo, and after listening to the OP I am even more certain of it. Lowest I’ve ever hit and had proper annunciation with a Hz reader was G1.
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris So did she think you were a basso profondo overall? Did she consider you kind of both a basso profondo and a bass-baritone at the same time?
This is what my brother and I were discussing earlier. My dad was a bass in the ensembles he sang in. But we realised now that he wasn't really a bass, nor were the majority of the basses in the choirs or ensembles we were involved with.
Real basses I doubt are EXTREMELY rare, but yes they're rarer than people tend to think. Most men who sing in the bass section in choir are indeed baritones, and on occasion I've even heard tenors sing in the bass section.
My vocal range is f4 to e1 Im 18 years old and speak at around g2, I start losing project at b flat 1 and in the morning at g#1 am I a basso profoundo?
Geai sou, Gianni! Which part of Greece are you in? I lived and worked on a few islands there for many years as a Soul singer. I tribute Barry White and I can sing all of his hits note for note including the speaking parts but I can also sing a high head voice song such as Michael Jackson's "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" (although the C6 "Ooh!" is a bit like a scream). I can sing a little under A1, so it's hard to classify myself for opera. For me, the bass-baritone range is difficult and it doesn't seem to have a proper classification. My bass obviously lacks the fullness of a basso profundo and I cannot belt a C5 like a real tenor so I'm kinda between an A1-A5 with a top belt around A4. If I wanted to sing opera or choral music do you know which category I should look to train in?
Hello Matthew. I live in Larissa, central Greece. Your voice sounds really impressive. I think that you could sing all the parts of a Bass Baritone, from C2 up to G4. Search for Hvorostovsky and try to sing his repertoire. His voice was phenomenal. He was a baritone with a very rich voice!! Nice to meet you my friend and God Bless you in what ever you do!!!
Hey, @@Ioannis_Tsoumaris! Thank you for your advice and for leaving the kind comment on my Dock of the Bay video! If your email is still valid can I get you on there? God bless you too, file! Epeseis! 🙏🏾☦️🇬🇷
In a choir set up, there are baritones, bass 1, and bass 2 (and tenors off coarse). Usually a bass 2 hits the lower notes when they exist. He is singing the same parts with bass 1 but if there is a low note like D2 and lower, the bass 2 is hitting it.
I was wondering- while my chest voice can go to about a D1, and I can hit notes as low as a0 (very quietly by the time it gets that low), with techniques such as vocal growls, vocal fry, and subharmonics, am I a bass profundo, or a contra bass?
Someone could tell only if hear you sing. Many can go low with any technique, but singing clear and resonant is way different. I hope I helped you a little
Amen!!! Music is not just notes. It’s the sound - the resonance, the quality, of the sound, the choices in vibrato, the expression.
Your talking voice is so unique and beautiful, I was not expecting that
Thank you my friend!! Greetings from Greece
Totally agreed. Most of the samples are just sustained long notes but just as you stated, “singing” is much different and harder. Thanks!!
Very well explained, thanks for that!
Going straight to Part II now :D
Thanks brother, It is coming
1:55 thankkkk youuu. Yes. I'm a little tired of baritones that use fry or subharmonics with their mouth in the mic...
Edit: 08:00 yesss. Totally agree with you. I can hit that b1, but I'm clearly a bass-baritone. My lowest resonant note on any day is maybe an F2, although I can go lower... One thing to hit a note, another to sustain it or project it
What's wrong with subharmonics? It's extrimely difficult technique that takes tones of practice to use in public. I've been practicing for 2 years and have only used it twice in a public. Nearby a campfire with a company and in front of my class. After the second performance (In front of my class) I was literally shaking.
@@rtsbass7829 my problem is not subharmonics or fry perse, rather that there are people that are clearly bass-baritones at best and claim they are basses.
Yeah, I know it takes practice and can be used for great effects live off-mic, but call it what it is and call yourself what you are.
Cheers, man. I wish you all the best and good luck in all of your endeavours. No hate here, btw. 🍻
@@Catalinddm oh, my bad, I misunderstood you. In this case I totally agree With you! No hate, mate, only love and respect:D
@@Catalinddm Also, thank wish you luck too😉
Yep that was my issue growing up. I can go low as I want, especially since younger ages, but I cannot sing below a G2. People always would say I’m a bass but my comfort level is mid/high tenor range even if I talk in an f2 typically.
Welcome back @Ioannis Tsoumaris! Glad that you made this video!
I am happy that i find the courage. I really miss that too!!
I love to study about male bass voices and they never knew how to answer me what the difference between a Basso Profondo and an Oktavist. Your explanation was very clear and to the point. I think it's unfortunate that on the internet there are many people who don't understand absolutely anything about the voice and teach them how to be a Bass. Oh my God! working with the voice is no joke, you don't become a singer overnight and that is very dangerous and having a professional like you here talking about this gives us a lot of security.
Thank you so much for your word's. I am sending you my greetings from Greece. 🙂
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris Thank you so much!!! Greetings from Brazil! ❤
@@eternalmourning9613 Can you post videos of yourself singing? I do not have authority to say whether you're a bass or a baritone of some sort but I am still curious :)
It takes time sometimes. Many basses take a while to become good singers, as well as tenors. Baritones, I think, have it so much easier.
Depending on context certain definitions might immensely vary on meaning...
An Operatic "Basso Profondo"
usually
sings LowEb(2) to High F#(4)
can exceptionally go as low as a CounterLowC(2) (it's usually for some "oppure" notes that are not 100% demanded anyway, rarely it's a C2 written in the score);
has to have a very strong, easy, resonant and projected LowF (F2) he should be able to sing in f (forte);
should be able to project a great amount of harmonics and volume through his whole vocal range, showing a dark, round almost praeternatural kind of low voice which not always needs to have a very beautiful timbre in order to be recognised as a good Basso Profondo.
Please note that certain roles that Giuseppe Verdi explicitly wrote for "Basso Profondo" might sometimes have a very high tessitura and strong sustained extreme high notes, those roles might be so difficult to sing that a baritone student could easily strangle himself trying :)
On the other hand a microphonic USA folk singer Deep Bass in a kind of oktavist and usually sings one octave lower than an Operatic Basso Profondo (going as low as a CounterLow F(1) or lower than that but very rarely singing on higher tessitura and anyway not possessing that kind of voice and technique a Basso Profondo would have); a folk music Deep Bass is also using a completely different technique and completely founding his voice on microphonic technique and amplification.
Then Ortodox Counter-Low Oktavist Basses (I believe you are calling them "ContraBasses") are a different thing again, to me.
My point is that those definitions get mixed together on the internet :)
Me, for example, I studied traditional opera singing as both baritone and bass and if I hadn't interrupted career (due to health concernes) but had instead kept building my voice I'd have become some sort of lirico-spinto (or perhaps dramatic) low baritone and lirico-spinto (or perhaps dramatic) Bass-baritone (I totally am an in-between voice and had a very metallic, bronze-like resonance, not very warm or round or dark but extremely resonant and buzzy with a strong low register, thick and bronze sounding middle register and a high register coming earlier than your usual baritone, more like where a bass would start singing high notes).
In the morning I can sometimes vocalise as low as touching a CounterLow Bb(1) maybe sometimes even A1 without vocal frying (we're talking lil burpy notes anyway, not vocal fry but not resonant at all); when technique holds I should be able to vocalise as High as touching a tenor High C(5) and when younger I'd actually touch a few semitones higher than that (I'm talking about touching a note while vocalising, not properly SINGING a note, two completely different things).
I'd never say I'm a Basso Profondo tho because I'd look like a mosquito and I know my Low F2 would never be (never had become anyway) LOUD as in f (forte)...
nor I'd call myself an oktavist because I can sing freely with a lot of power, control, resonance, projection and timbrical game while making no kind of effort at all only between Low G(2) and D(3) while a real oktavist would have that "total no effort" quinta of his voice sit at least 5 or 6 semitones lower...
I see on the Internet sometimes a few basses using a combination of technique (subharmonics for example), microphonic technique and sound engineering to name themselves "oktavists" which I honestly think they are not, not entirely at least.
Hello my friend. Nice to meet a professional operatic singer. I will mention only about the contra bass voice. To be a contra bass has only to do with your resonators and body, and offcoarse the contra notes. The sound of a contra bass is like a subwoofer from a surround system. Resonant it is, but not the loud type, it is the wide, warm type that covers everything without knowing exactly from were the sound comes.
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris yes, it is a very well known phenomenon in acoustics and physics.
Relating it to human voices it's specifically the kind of attribute I do not possess, id est a set of harmonics laying extremely low and if possible an ABSENCE of high and very high harmonics (my voice had very strong high harmonics).
That's because the lower the sound the widest its wave is and below a certain threshold of Hertz it's impossible for human ears to pinpoint the exact point of origin of a sound (we'd need to have our ears a couple meters apart instead of some 20 centimeters apart).
In Opera (Traditional/Lyric sometimes called "Belcanto") singing we try to find the exact opposite set of harmonics since we specifically need very strong and sounding formants around 1500 and 3-4k Hertz (other harmonics higher and lower than those will define timbre quality but for example my specific voice, even after having studied, never developer very low harmonics; ofc harmonics will always sit higher than the fundamental formant wave which is the note).
I'm liking your channel
Anyway an update: after having cured some health problems (some serious, some other less so) I discovered my lower range widened and became also easier and more accessible.
Still I'm a bass-baritone, not a real tiefer bass/basso profondo (I lack the kind of resonance, sound, loudness and uniformity of solid round dark timbre to sing say as a Wagnerian dramatic tiefer bass) but I discovered my range is mostly G1-A4 which sounds incredible to me if I go back to my days as a youth when my lower register was actually so wimpy for a "a real bass"...
I can still touch very high notes but now that my health improved I believe I should try to re-learn singing in this whole body, I believe I shall eventually learn how to very reliably hit a proper High Bb in a proper operatic sound if I fix certain problems and tensions.
Thank you for clearing up my doubts ,you have a beautiful family to be honest and oh man i wish to have a calming yet intimidating voice like yours.You are truly blessed and i was very lucky to have found your channel
Thank you. I am lucky that you and all the others have found me because you are giving me the strength to do things and to fight with myself to achieve all these. It is difficult to live in a place like Greece where there are no choirs to participate as an oktavist or basso soloist.
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris i hope you find a something to help you utilise your unique voice and keep making these videos
Wowww, I never knew. This makes much sense. Very comprehensive sir. Thank you very much
I am glad you liked it. God Bless you!
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris God bless you too
Wow your voice is amazing, I've always wanted to be a basso profundo
Thank you my friend. Greetings
Most people are 1-2 voice types higher than they think they are. Ex: most "baritones" today are really spinto/dramatic tenors, most "dramatic tenors" are really lyric tenors, etc.
I'm a baritone, but I started as a bass because modern teachers are afraid of big voices and think anyone with a chest voice is deeper than they actually are.
Listening to this video though, I feel like a tenor in comparison 🤣 (my lowest note is Eb2. My lowest GOOD note is F2)
Thank you Jason. Some times i imagine my self singing like a tenor, haha, you see we all are searching what we struggle to get. So we are equals!!! Greetings brother
Jason Black, I'll respectfully disagree with you that "most" baritones these days are dramatic/spinto tenors. Some definitely are, of course, because their high notes are sometimes undeveloped at the beginning of training, making some heavy-weight tenors (not actual weight but timbre-wise) be misidentified as baritones. But there are also lots of baritones in our world who are actually true baritones, they just haven't developed the scuro (darkness of timbre) that all opera singers need just yet.
@@bradycall1889 i'm a tenor who continuosly gets mistaken for a baritone because i have a resonant E2, sometimes even a resonant E flat, and also because i have relatively speaking quite alot of weight to my high notes. but between my very tenorish ring to my voice, aswell as my falsetto, and operatic projection range being somehwere around A2, and my passagio being at F4, and my voice overall still being light compared to many other voices....
it's obvious im a tenor but for 8 years people online have kept telling me i'm a baritone
@@Celatra A tenor with a resonant E2? Not impossible but I'm not 100% sure about you having a resonant E2, especially considering your speaking voice doesn't go down to a resonant E2 at all. Your speaking voice is higher than mine and yet I don't have a resonant E2. Also, most baritones have operatic projection somewhere down to between G2-A2 from what I know, it is not a tenorial trait. Ask any vocal pedagogy expert and they'll tell you the same thing. Tenors can, however, be resonant that low it's just not the norm not even for heldentenors. I say this as someone who has studied pedagogy for years now and has listened to many opera singers of different voice types and their low notes. Listen to operatic baritones and tenors to learn more. But yes some tenors are confused as baritones, unfortunately, and aren't being trained in the right fach. I don't think "most" baritones these days are undeveloped tenors, but some definitely are.
@@Celatra Also, trust me, I'm classically trained lol (I mean my training isn't over, but still). Also, falsetto has nothing to do with being a baritone nor a tenor. I believe you that you're a tenor though because as you've said, you've been told by multiple vocal teachers that you're a tenor and that your passaggio is at F#4 or F4. That is a tenor voice.
My ranking of top five (maybe six) Oktavists are:
. Mikhail Zlatopolsky
. a tie between Vladimir Pasyukov and Paul Myhalik
. Yuri Wichniakov
. a tie among Mikhail Kruglov, Glenn Miller and Vladimir Miller
.
What is your ranking of top five Oktavists of all time?
Hello David. Thanks for the post. If i have to be fair, every one of the oktavists you mentioned, are very different in any aspect. So, Zlatopolsky is the strongest and very rare type, Pasyukov had the bassiest (very warm) timbre (from those of your list), Myhalik had the most brutal timbre. From the other 4, Mr Glenn is the strongest and more consistent in performance (he will deliver the low notes no matter what, very gifted), and Mr Vladimir, Mikhail and Yuri are very known and good professionals in their area.
Now I want to confess my experience. A true oktavist (like those 6), have the gift that God Gave them but this is not enough. There is a part in your life where you have to decide the path you will follow. Zlatopolsky had a very beautiful voice as a soloist but they sacrificed him to be the subwoofer in every choir. So his gift went there. His voice was working in the contra oktave mostly. Pasyukov was also a soloist with different path. He wasn't the one that could destroy the last note, so his voice was working mostly in the low oktave. Vladimir and Mikhail are mostly soloists and they suffer in the contra oktave because you will have to choose in the end, you can't have the strongest contra oktave and be a soloist also. Vibrato kills the strong oktave. I hope that get my point. Your are becoming what you are choosing, you can't have everything, that is why we can only say - who is my favorite, not the best because if they all were working in the same field then we could compare them. Offcoarse someone has darker timbre, someone is more resonant but believe me the line is very thin. Everything I say I have confirmed it with my voice and by searching all these extraordinary oktavists.
Greetings my friend
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris Well, thank you for your great information.
I absolutely LOVE your voice; your Speaking voice is so beautiful, so soothing! And your singing voice is amazing!
I love you too, my friend, for this warm comment. Are you a young basso profundo? Do you sing?
Greetings from Greece
I do sing! I'm a Baritone, who can very comfortably sing down to a G2. I'm also a Woman in my mid 30's! 😃
I've always had a deep voice, and I've grown to appreciate Bass. I love the majestic sound of the Basso Profundo; it's such an incredible Voice, and something amazing to experience!
Greetings from The U.S.A.!
The closest in a female range that I have been told I am - I'm obviously WAAY below a Contralto; an Operatic Teacher told Me that I am a "Very Rare, Mezzo-Alto". He was impressed that I could hit Basso notes, but could project a Healthy, Hearty Baritone range with no problem. He said I am one Woman of roughly 10-thousand (1/10,000).
And this vocal test was done when I was in Highschool, at the age of 15 years old.
When I listening to your description of music//singing, as far as hitting a note, quality, and resonating; if just by hitting a note, I am most certainly a woman Bass, as I can EASILY hit very, very low notes . As far as quality, projecting, singing, holding the note, etc; I am a Baritone/Bass. This is where I would classify myself, and when I sang in church choir, I would be a 'Bass 1'. My Mother Herself is a Tenor, and a wonderful one at that. My Father, is a Bass, who can project/sing as a Marvelous Baritone. He has a Hearty, deep, round tone to his voice that is absolutely magnificent.
@@lynnkay417 I am so happy to read a woman's comment in my channel. You are amongst the 3% of the women that visiting my channel. You have a very rare voice indeed. I wish the best for you and your family and I hope to hear you sing. Greetings from Greece
@@lynnkay417 That's a shock 😳 I have never heard of women like your voice.
Maybe I really could be a basso profundo in the future. Because my low notes are resonant without even pressing my voice. Moreover I could descend to B1 contra with resonance it's just a bit weak. And I'm only 18 years.
I can feel the resonance even when I'm talking. It's like vibrations throughout your whole body, isn't it, Mr. Ioannis
Hello my friend. Yes, the feeling is strong vibrations in the low and contra area, even when you are low in resonance
You are my new idol. I'm 17 and can hit a B1, I'm working on my resonance and most of my friends and my teacher say that it is sounding good, but I still need to practice. Also can I ask, did you throughout your teens have a lower voice or did it start then and as you got older after your teen years did it continue to get lower, with practice?
Thank you for your kind words my friend. My voice was strong and bassy from when i was a kid. This is only from what i remember other people telling me, you sound like your daddy (he has a bassy and loud voice), and i was 13. But i never wanted to use my voice back then, so i never tried to hit low notes. I was just a guy with naturally strong and bassy voice
Is that the first B on the piano, or the B just below low C?
Near the Low c
I can go over to F1 but the sound isnt that loud so how to make ur voice more louder?
Here to learn, i´ve recently joind my church´s choir. I´m definetely a baritone, don´t know any more specifics than that, but i want to learn to hit lower notes, to add in the choir melody and overall feeling.
I really like watching these videos. So informative
I know right?
People get wrapped up in who can sing the lowest. I can hit a B -1 on a mic, doing double subharmonics... doesn't mean I am actually going to be able to use it in a song. For me, my sweet spot is A1-F3; I consider myself a basso profundo, even though I can get into Oktavist territory... doesn't make me one, nevertheless.
I can go to E1 but the sound is not strong and loud enough, do u have a tips?
One person I knew of that could do both was the late, yet great Ivan Rebroff (Hans-Rolf Ruppert)!
Thank you, so true. The ability to sing words very low is unique. Evan Redroff's my man.....Ernie Ford more a barratone but sings low sustainably however unable to drop an octavive and sing the same song.
Я могу предложить такое определение: бас профундо, это бас, который наравне с басом кантанте, имеет обычный оперный диапазон F2 - F4. Только у профундо тембр более насыщен низкими обертонами, чем у кантанте. Кантанте же это лирический бас, высокий. Почти баритон.
Октавист же, это бас, поющий - очень верно отметил Яннис, именно поющий - ноты на октаву ниже обычного баса, откуда и прошло его название - октавист. Одним словом он должен петь ноты до F1. Вот и всё. Естественно запас по диапазону должен быть у любого голоса, тем более у оперного. Обычно в консерваторию голоса имеющие меньше природных двух с половиной октав не берут.
Яннис, большое спасибо за исключительно качественный материал, отличные видео! Буду рад сотрудничать со специалистом такого калибра!
PS Про толщину голосовых связок давно знал и очень рад услышать, что есть реальный человек, у которого это так и есть. Обратный пример, кстати, - Паваротти. Это тенор с басовыми голосовыми связками. И, кстати, есть ещё русский оперный бас Михайлов, с теноровыми голосовыми связками.
Thank you my friend. It is an honor for me to if we collaborate for my future videos in translation. I think that if I had Russian tags and subtitles i could have more viewers from Russia
I personally know some basses in my academy and their natural range goes down to D2/C#2. Even my teacher bassbaritone which completly doesnt know anything about oktavists goes down to B1 during speaking. F2 is the lowest note maybe for lyric bass baritones and thats it
@@JAC0B_BASS это нормально, что возможности голоса шире, чём рабочий диапазон. Так и должно быть.
What a great voice!
Thanks friend!
Muito bem explicado. Excelente
Thank you Jeff
Forget defining them. I want to learn how to be able to achieve that level of range. 😅 When my throat muscles are fully relaxed (mostly after a good night’s rest), I can hit B1. But I want to go lower. I’ll be content with hitting G1.
Wow. I just took an auditory bath in your beautiful low speaking voice. Thanks ^^
Thank you my friend!
Thank you, explained like I haven't heard before. Basso profundos being soloists/performers. Anyone have any advice on getting vibrato below Eb2? I can hit notes loudly down a long ways below that, but I can't find vibrato.
Well the depth and timbre of your voice varies and changes by age, but the most important thing is to relax your voice as you sing, and learning/practicing subharmonics can also further lower your voice.😊
If I had to put it simply to someone how to distinguish between an Oktavist and a Profundo, I'd tell them that all Profundi are (or can be) oktavists (at least with training on how to project) but that there are some Oktavists who aren't Profundi. Some aren't even regular basses.
Examples: take Pavel Myakotin, for instance. He's a low baritone with an extended mixed chest/fry range (down to Bb1) and subharmonics down to F#1. Also, Paul Myhalik used some kind of overtone singing most of the time rather than modal or mixed. Also, Avi Kaplan has some experience as an oktavist and DOES have a genuinely low range, but he's more like a regular bass than a Profundo. Those are Oktavists but not Profundi, though plenty of Oktavists ARE, such as the two Millers, Zlatopolsky, Chandrowsky, Pasjukov, etc.
Very clearly explained, I learned from that
Thank you brother.
thank you for explaining this
Thank you dear friend
Thank you for this info 🙂
Thank you brother.!!
What do you think of Mikhail Zlatopolsky and Paul Myhalik? I heard some of their singing. Very impressive, deep, loud and powerful.
They are monsters. Raw power, the definition of the oktavist! I love them both
Mr. David Fernandez are you an Indian???
@@manwithmonstervoice1100 Yes. Why?
@@davidfernandez1992 just asked you , I'm happy that an Indian watching this kind of videos 😀😀 where do you stay in India???i hope you are from south india because you look like an malayali
@@manwithmonstervoice1100 Yeah, I'm a Malayali. And you?
Thank you for explaining this, absolutely the most informative video on the difference of the voices! I'm a low baritone, and wish I could sing this low and resonant, but I definitely like being able to sing most of the male vocals I come across in music.
I have put effort into reaching lower notes like A1 with a morning voice (definitely not nearly as loud as a true bass singer), but when I did so I notice that my talking voice was getting lower. Is this change permanent or just a perception when speaking with a relaxed voice because I'm actually hitting lower frequencies with ease? I really don't want to lose my current speaking voice but I also want to be able to sing lower notes with more intensity.
If you work low your voice will get used to this area, but there is a limit, the way your throat is constructed. No one can pass the limits nature gave. Nothing is permanent, only while we age our voice is gaining semitones low
Everyday I have been singing in the 2nd and 3rd octave, I have pretty much strayed away from 1st octove at least for now and focusing on resonation! Strengthening the vowels "O" "Ah" "Eh" etc and not using any technique. If I have to use any kind of technique, I correct myself and I go up higher. No strohbass...no subharmonics...just pure me.
This is the right way my brother!! Never give up
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris ❤🤜🤛
Your almost daily 0th and 1st octave vocal fry videos suggest the opposite 😄
@@maloxi1472 Yeah with all due respect, nothing personal against him, but he is an odd person.
Well explained. Thanks a lot.
Thank you my friend
thanks man... love your voice
I thank you my friend
Very good explanation! 👍
Thank you Niclas!
very helpful, thank you
Thank you very much!!
New subscriber here! I am pleased to find your channel.
I have a question : Was Vladimir Pasyukov an Oktavist ? Or Basso Profondo ?
Thank you my friend. He was both because he was also a soloist. He didn't have crazy soloist voice but he was strong with unique timbre. Greetings my friend.
I think there's a confusion with bass baritones too. Especially with music teachers. The bass baritone is a bass but not too much of a baritone. I think bass baritones can have more solo freedom to harmonize with tenors and baritones and still hit or sing a decent B1 to A1.
A teacher told me that i am a bassbaritone, knowing very well that i am an oktavist. I asked her why did she tell me this and the answer was, because your voice has the ability to sing a modal A4 in an operatic repertoir, after the proper training offcoarse. So, the term is used to classify what someone can sing in opera, not what note can sing in a choir. She said, indeed your are an oktavist, but your vocal ability is of an basso profundo & a bass batitone
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris understood
That’s me I think. Hate to be weird bc idc about views but I have 2 videos on my page of singing, one is a Mr grinch by Boris. I’d consider myself bass baritone as I can reach into high tenor range honestly easier than the bass noted but I talk in an A3 or G2 depending on if I have smoked within the last 24 hours. Never for a second thought I was a profundo, and after listening to the OP I am even more certain of it. Lowest I’ve ever hit and had proper annunciation with a Hz reader was G1.
@@ENikolaev sounds like you and me. Melvin franklin was another bass baritone like William Bobo.
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris So did she think you were a basso profondo overall? Did she consider you kind of both a basso profondo and a bass-baritone at the same time?
Greaaaat .
This video was very helpful! But I have a question, what is an octobass, I’ve heard the term before but don’t know what it means
Thank you my friend!! For the octobass you mean this?? th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=octobass
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris no no no, the gospel singer, Ken Turner, you may have heard of him, I heard someone refer to him as an “octobass”
@@finnrdyt1840 Propably they said that as a joke, that his voice is like that organ. Maybe
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris ooooh okay! Thank you, I was wondering if it was an actual voice type, thanks a bunch!
most bases who sing in choirs are baritones..
Real basses are extremely rare (men who not only have low voices but also sing classical choir)
This is what my brother and I were discussing earlier. My dad was a bass in the ensembles he sang in. But we realised now that he wasn't really a bass, nor were the majority of the basses in the choirs or ensembles we were involved with.
Real basses I doubt are EXTREMELY rare, but yes they're rarer than people tend to think. Most men who sing in the bass section in choir are indeed baritones, and on occasion I've even heard tenors sing in the bass section.
My vocal range is f4 to e1 Im 18 years old and speak at around g2, I start losing project at b flat 1 and in the morning at g#1 am I a basso profoundo?
By terms of range maybe an oktavist, but a basso profundo i dont know. If you sing easy ìn the area of C2 ang B1 in an opera setup, then yes, you are.
Geai sou, Gianni! Which part of Greece are you in? I lived and worked on a few islands there for many years as a Soul singer. I tribute Barry White and I can sing all of his hits note for note including the speaking parts but I can also sing a high head voice song such as Michael Jackson's "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" (although the C6 "Ooh!" is a bit like a scream). I can sing a little under A1, so it's hard to classify myself for opera. For me, the bass-baritone range is difficult and it doesn't seem to have a proper classification. My bass obviously lacks the fullness of a basso profundo and I cannot belt a C5 like a real tenor so I'm kinda between an A1-A5 with a top belt around A4. If I wanted to sing opera or choral music do you know which category I should look to train in?
Hello Matthew. I live in Larissa, central Greece. Your voice sounds really impressive. I think that you could sing all the parts of a Bass Baritone, from C2 up to G4. Search for Hvorostovsky and try to sing his repertoire. His voice was phenomenal. He was a baritone with a very rich voice!!
Nice to meet you my friend and God Bless you in what ever you do!!!
Hey, @@Ioannis_Tsoumaris! Thank you for your advice and for leaving the kind comment on my Dock of the Bay video!
If your email is still valid can I get you on there?
God bless you too, file! Epeseis! 🙏🏾☦️🇬🇷
@@MCharlerySmith Of course my friend
What is a Bass 2? Thanks!
In a choir set up, there are baritones, bass 1, and bass 2 (and tenors off coarse). Usually a bass 2 hits the lower notes when they exist. He is singing the same parts with bass 1 but if there is a low note like D2 and lower, the bass 2 is hitting it.
Wow your voice is lower than Juan Carlos Tinoco voice
Thank you brother!!
I was wondering- while my chest voice can go to about a D1, and I can hit notes as low as a0 (very quietly by the time it gets that low), with techniques such as vocal growls, vocal fry, and subharmonics, am I a bass profundo, or a contra bass?
Someone could tell only if hear you sing. Many can go low with any technique, but singing clear and resonant is way different. I hope I helped you a little
@@Ioannis_Tsoumaris ok, thanks!
is this a tip video?
I am explaining the differencies between the bass voices
If you able the subtitles, you'll see 483738 variations of basso profundo.
How do you engage resonators?
αδελφέ αν σου ήταν δυνατόν να βάλεις και ελληνικούς υπότιτλους θα βοηθουσες ιδιαίτερα . Να είσαι καλά.
Εγώ σε ευχαριστώ. Θα κάνω ότι μπορώ!
!!!!
Is that you and the wife?❤
Yes, last summer in one of the most beautiful places of Greece in Εpirous
How to become a basso profundo ? 🗿
I guess I juste have to accept that I am not a basso profundo….. redemption arc incoming
th-cam.com/video/vABKYp9TsJ8/w-d-xo.html podría recitar así un octavista?
What the hell is a Swar?????????????????
Choir is the correct word my friend. Greetings
It's just the way he pronounces "choir"