Season of Discovery Has Problems, Let's Talk About Them | Season of Discovery | Classic WoW
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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Season of Discovery is Blizzard's first big attempt to take Classic in a whole new direction, and I have been one to praise them a ton for all the hard work that they have been putting into the season.
However, just as feedback got us the season in the first place, its also needed here. There are only a handful of big problems that I can see atm, and it still is overwhelmingly positive, but I think its worth talking about to make Season of Discovery as good as it can be.
Season of Discovery Has A Few Problems, Let's Talk About Them | Season of Discovery | Classic WoW
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how is this 2 days old
Aion is maybe not the worst Asian MMO, and it sure beats WoW by miles when it comes to character creation, but overall I think the majority of your audience will not enjoy it over WoW. Not only is the game not on the same level of quality, it also runs a different business model.
Watch the latest south park and thats how bad these stupid in video ads make you look. Get me that CRED! I could careless about WoW and i have been watching your channel since you launched it. These in video ads are pushing me away. IF you put them at the end ill shut up about it, but when you are like "WoW classic xyz AFTER a word from RAID SHADOW LEGENDS". I want to unsub.
I like having almost nothing to do right now - I like being not pressured to farm shit and catch up - I like logging on and running thru zones looking for alliance and not feeling like I’m wasting time or falling behind
Agreed. It's rather nice
Agree! It's a unique feeling in an MMO let alone classic wow. I'm actually getting DMF rep/tickets because...why not. Plenty of time to help others with their stuff too, which end up being some of the more memorable moments at the end of the day
not pressured? every phase is a huge bottleneck race to level?? and you are wasting time if your playing wow
@CardiacKatz isn't literally everything a waste of time? If you watch TV, that's a waste of time. If you read a book, that's a waste of time. Modifying your car? A waste of time.
@@CardiacKatz You have literal months to gain 25, 15, 10 and then 10 levels. There is no pressure.
SoD has some problems but you know what, I love that there is not PTR for it. Figuring out the "meta" as we play and then having tweaks and changes implementet rapidly feels so much nicer to me than retail.
But there was no figuring out a meta lol. Melee has ruled the top of dps for all iterations of vanilla..the only difference is we have runes now but it doesnt matter causse melee owns vanilla and that wount change
@@Kensber85In what? Melee are better for raiding, and casters are great for everything else (PvP, dungeons, questing, etc). Mages are straight broken OP in open world.
this video is just a bad take, perfectly balancing around level 25 would be stupid, unbalanced gameplay is actually fun, and no PTR is great. Your opinion sounds like it’s coming from a salty mage that wants to be on the top for every aspect of the game, across all phases. Hilarious. A homogenous game does not mean a fun game, or even a balanced game necessarily. The only balance changes should be for extreme outliers, until max level when things settle
@@nickelodeann i actually play a warlock/druid/hunter.
Melee is better in dungeons too.
Open world doesnt matter once you reach cap.
Raiding is also end-game content and always have and once we hit the 60 bracket guess who will be on top? Rogue.
Actually might be before 60 bracket.
This video isnt a bad take its a real take. But its also fundamental of classic. No caster has ever been more than middle of the pack in terms of dps in any version and we have the logs to back that up
Same, no PTR was a great step towards keeping stuff fresh. Only real issues with this have come in the form of battle for ashenvale being changed daily, but hopefully lessons can be taken forwards into phase 2.
I agree, in the first couple of days, people constantly asking where to find something or how to complete a quest, rather than just googling it was fun
Dear WillE, I will be a bit harsh to general people, but the problems are not game or design issues but player issues. They design Ashenvale assuming people will STOP each faction, rather than just run for pve race. But that does not happen. Why? it is not the speed of honor gains by itself, the problem is, most players, people, nowadays have really high and fragile egos. Average WoW player likes to feel great always and can not stand the feeling of being defeated. So they will do anything to avoid confrontation with another players, will confront only PVE, also that only after they vastly out-gear the pve content, so there is not challenge and chance of losing. This is the fundamental problem with Classic, compared to vanilla back in 2005.
In any way blizzard presents a fun action which involves winning AND LOSING, current playerbase of last 4 years will do anything to avoid taking the path that may involve losing. Simply because egos are so fragile nowadays, they can not be losing and stay mentally healthy, understanding it is just a game and another player is just better at them.
So many hardcore players who do easy raids 40 times over, quit raiding when it gets a bit difficult in wotlk, after 2-3 weeks. Almost like only 3-5% of players get involved in arena. Anything that present a chance to be defeated (which is actually the only way to have worthwhile memories), people avoid them.
So true. I had an Ashenvale event where it was bugging out for our side. We decided to actually take our raid to go pvp as we couldn't do the bosses. It was great fun but we had so many people complaining and saying to stop and let them win so it would be over and reset. That's the mentality. Don't pvp in the pvp event... do nothing to reset it and get back to the pve rep grind.
Ego? 😂 brother you sound like you wake up and go right to you PC and when your off your PC you go to bed rinse repeat. 😂 You have no idea and it’s actually scary to see people think like this! Go outside and interact with society, You obviously got twisted somewhere.
you are free to give me any other suggestions why, people are doing everything they can do avoid any confrontation that they have a chance to lose, despite those being the most memorable.@@zometthecomet
9:40 I think one of the ways to fix the spell rank issue would be to add those spell tomes for casters, the ones that drop from end game content, into BFD and Gnomer. Like the ones that gave druid's Gift of the Wild. But instead, give them the next rank of their main spell. Shadow bolt for warlocks, Mind blast for Priest, Wrath and Moonfire for Druid, Lightning Bolt for Shaman etc etc. It would be as big as a gear upgrade for melee
That's a brilliant idea.
They could also use those scroll thingies they added for mages... or the book turn-ins, etc.
They could just add in half ranks SB rank 5.5 or whatever.
Would be better than granting the next rank, that you might not be eligible for until 30 for some classes
Yah or maybe just add a new spell rank at max level for each phase that is scaled appropriately for that level. I.E. Lets say you get level 6 fireball at level 35 that does 100 damage using 50 mana and there level 7 ranks up at level 45 doing 200 damage at 100 mana. Add a level 6.5 rank of fireball at level 40 that does 150 damage for 75 mana for phase 2 and do the same for each spell that needs scaling. (Also Im not saying to scale it linearly like this, scale it appropriate to how it is balanced in vanilla. Im not an expert on how damage and mana scale per level in vanilla Im just giving a simplified example)
Interesting idea!
It’s a shame that indie private servers ran out of Hungarian basements do a better job at keeping their realms clean of bots.
You can't make as much money selling gold at private servers
@@JoseFanon Sure you could, both Nost and Turtle WoW have been hit over 15k players at their peaks and had GMs patrolling hot zones and manually banning bots, their accounts and all accounts associated.
WillE is correct. The premade problem is entirely soluble by having separate Arranged Team and Random Team queues, ala WC3 matchmaking. Doing this will: increase premade queue times (negative), eliminate premade vs randoms (positive), facilitate premade vs premade (positive), and reduce the amount of whining about premades (positive).
@@MilitaryAV Take your own advice, buddy. Next time, make sure you're correct before you decide to be a condescending prick. I recommend a dictionary; they have entries like this one that tell you what words mean.
Adjective: soluble
1. (of a substance) able to be dissolved, especially in water.
2. (of a problem) able to be solved.
Also, it's ironic that you assumed I don't know the first definition. I teach chemistry for a living.
except the ranking system would have to be reworked
mostly true, but I think it's promoting people to engage more into the MMO aspect tbh, It's not like you can solo BFD either
Preach, gamer
@@NonSequitur15made him delete the comment 😂
Personally one of the features I would really like to see for SoD would be the inspect talents feature. For season fo discovery which is all about experimenting with different builds I would really love to see what talents others are trying out for their builds.
thats why you have to discover what talents they are using
I agree. Only down side is the try hards that will need to "inspect" you before letting you in a group. Already enough of that as of now
there is an addon, but it only works if the other person has the same add on, i believe it might be TUKUI, but i could be wrong, there is something out there tho, i just don't know what add on it is, sorry if thats no help.
@@michaelmohler5409the only thing worse than the try hards inspecting people before letting them in the group is the people who complain about inspections while dragging down their group.
@janitorizamped well you tried lol
I think the best fix for the spell rank problem is to add new ranks for the key levels 25/40/50. this is way easier to balance (at least in my small mind) and won’t remove spell ranks entirely which is a key part or vanilla. Making vanilla spells stronger through runes would make runes even stronger, which might lead to a situation you play runes instead of classes.
majority of people currently running premades are doing to for rep since ashenvale doesn't give rep after you hit revered and the lvl 40 epic bracers from wsg are expected to be bis next phase, else then that its ofc also a free ticket to have some good gear instantly when 60 comes around
while you're able to see other high level gear on the vendor, you cannot see the epic bracers. They are not in the game at the moment and won't be in the game next phase unless the devs make a deliberate decision to add them. I find this unlikely.
Not trying to be a downer. If they were visible on the vendor, I would say the probably won't be removing them...
Good point, didn't consider this!
@@mj42644Not making them available would be a rather questionable decision don’t you think?
@@FernandoSmierlaep The logic goes: You can see other high level gear on the vendor when you have rep and friendly or honored. People who have hit exalted cannot see the bracers.
Unless the bracers are an exception such that you must have the rep and the level to see them, we can say they are not currently in the game. (A way to check this would be an exalted 19 twink on era and see if they can see they bracers on the vendor.)
It appears that Blizz deliberately removed the bracers from the vendor, so it is more likely they don't add them back next phase.
I'm really enjoying SoD so far. Just two things I'd like implimented: 1. Dual spec (or your item respec is interesting too). 2. Much more emphasis on professions and crafting. The epic peices are neat, but some more BoP peices that are just fractionally better than dungeon items for pre-bis would make going out into the world a bit more mandatory, put them behind some quests and gathering gear would be much more diverse than running dungeons over and over.
Step 1: Don't have WOW as your "day job"
Step 2: Disable damage meters
Step 3: Have fun!
3 step guide on how to not the be the best.
@@hundrick186 See step 3
@@hundrick186 Trust me, you're still a loser
Fuck if I want to waste my time playing with you. Have fun playing alone. Playing with shitcans is not fun and never was. Its selfish for you to waste others time.
@@Xeryph_ some people have fun doing their best. And not trying to do their best sucks the joy out of it. People are different, fun is subjective.
Most of your solution are quality of life and balance improvements for players that want to min-max.
I think you did hit it nail on when you said, the big difference in progression between then and now was that player didnt do min-maxing and the game didnt need it.
I think classic wow, not the season one, is in the best spot it has ever been in, the players that wanted to do all the content and move on are gone and what is left is a community that actually doesnt care about min-maxing that much and enjoys a slower pase. And it feels awsome and is excatly what the classic community was always about.
I think wow classic strengh is that it encourages a slower pase.
I think catering to content creators and progression players will lead, again, to a game where everybody logs in for the new patch and to play exclusively that, to then log off again.
This is not what classic is about and we are robbing it its soul to get an alternate playground for those who hop between patch cycles on retails.
I do not like that idea of low level raids already, to see the new content groups require me to be bis, have all kinds of buffs and pots and know the tactics before entering it. This is not classic im playin here, its retail. We are level 25 and everybody is acting like we need bis asap ... to level a bit faster to level 40 next?
I dont not have good solutions to the problems you brough up, im much rather not happy with the trajectory we are on already.
Based
For spell and ranks: what if they did make classic spells scale per level, but they only scaled for say, 5 levels. Every 5 levels it would stop scaling until you went to your class trainer and learned the next rank. Guarantees full power at every level cap, but keeps the classic feel of needing class trainers alive. Thoughts?
Not a terrible idea, but it would have to be 2-4 levels for most spells, not 5.
Yea this is pretty great imo. Wouldn't even really change how the game feels largely, cause you'd still want to always get your next rank + you downrank when appropriate the same way.
Could even attach it to runes themselves if balance was a concern, certain runes cause certain spells to get "partial ranks" but I don't think that'd be needed.
Mail isn't instant, but returned letters are instant, so, while this isn't nearly as good as just instant mail, you can leave things in an alts mailbox and then send those items back instantly.
You need to look on the bright side a bit more man. SoD is great but you’re being so critical of it. At the same time you put quite a bit of effort defending cata when it has way more issues
My brother in christ, did you not listen to the start of the video
@@Stammeredno he didn’t. Probably just read the title and thumbnail
you do realize the title of this video is literally “problems with SOD” right? you understand that concept or are you just typing out of your ass? lol…
thats the way willie is. plays the game to no end but never a single positive video lol
Ignorance is bliss
Half of these comments are just "Logical constructive criticism is bad. Stop thinking. Consume product." It's honestly pathetic.
Wille your missing an important reason why Ashenvale fixes are being prioritized. Future layered PVP events like in STV will use the same tech. Its one of the biggest features of P1 and the most buggy at scale. Balancing is whatever at this level, this layered tech and the next phase all relies on this phase's fixes and we'll be happier for it!
The issue isn’t mainly bugs or stuff it’s a design flaw . Ashenvale as a whole doesn’t work design wise .
Ashenvale prioritises getting as many boss tags as possible because even with a loss if you tag all three and lose it's still 1k rep. It's a stupid design and tbh isn't salvageable, my hope is they really rethink the design for STV or make it PvE because it's just not working in its current state.
Has there ever been a PVP event/zone with PVE objectives where people actually want to PVP? It always seems everyone just rushes for rewards and bails no matter what they do.
Blizzard is not incapable of automatically detecting, and taking action on, bots. They choose not to because those bot accounts pay a subscription. They choose profits over the health of the game.
Pre made WSG vs random feels like an ancient torture from times past. The pvp players don’t like it because no one is really there for the pvp the meta is to avoid pvp at all costs 75% or more of all random games is vs pre made from dawn till 3am and to cap it off the stoped rep grinding in AV meaning that all servers have an expire date on AV being played at all by most let’s say 14 days from now AV will be dead
I remember getting into premades that could only muster around 4-6 players and they would still say “just let the other premade win” because they saw it as faster honor/hour. I also was a part of full premades where as soon as we capped 1 flag or took 3 arathi bases the opposition full premade would all quit and stop rezzing. It’s like all anyone cared about was honor/hour farming poor PuGs
Most of these premades are 10 dudes from tradechat not on mic or 10 random guildies who don't know their ear from their ass when it comes to pvp, I've been beating premades regularly with a ferral druid + friend queuing rogue just by killing flag carrier, most of the people spamming premades are NOT good at pvp.
Premade BGs is a special kind of hell. I haven't played WoW in a decade, and coming back to SoD, it all cane screaming back to me like it was just yesterday -- pugs vs premade should just never be a thing 💀
It is funny that the premade issue is still here and still serious, and I stopped playing in 2014. But it's not 2014, Blizz needs use modern PvP balance strategy and assign an MMR to accounts, even a simple one based on win/lose, and start matching people. Even then premades are pretty harmful to the PvP community.
@@teehasheestower ahh so you want skill based matchmaking inn a non ranked mode.
You get pickpocket at level 4, lockpicking at 16
Echoing the other comments, particularly whingy last few videos.
the only big problem I see in SOD its the leveling experience... we do in 2019 classic- 2021 SOM- 2023 SOD. and atleast for me its so boring do the same and again and again, in fact the first 25 lvls are the worst part, too much walking without mount no gear and rest every 2 mobs.
its only my opinion and i know no one care but blizz should be do something with the leveling experience for example doing pvp give you exp or something like that like newworld
How about they fix the talent trees so they also affect rune spells? Like some talents are totally useless due to runes... Makes it awkward to spec, just look at everything affecting sbolt as lock.
There is plenty of PvP in Ashenvale. The ones who aren't seeing it are the ones in the furball or not looking for it (on a PvE realm of course). It's a lot of fun actually! I managed to get to sergeant without stepping into WSG all from Ashenvale PvP.
I'm on lavalash (rp) and we get down world pvp all over if you want it
I mainly meant during the actual battle portion of the event. Ive seen plenty pvp in between it
>zooming on a Details list with a rogue named Twinkenjoyer
Hold up...
Some good stuff brought up here. The premade issue in WSG is huge. Didn't queue all week because of it. Yeah. I probably could've found a premade, but when my time is limited, I just want to queue and go for 2-3 matches then log. Ashenvale...eh. World PVP is always going to have its issues. You're not going to be able to fix it with the bot issues and the min/max crowd.
Caster scaling will always be behind. Melee just scales much, much better off weapon damage and stats. I would love to see a "stat" rune for casters. Something for a belt or shoulder that increase SP by XX% of your INT & SPR.
QOL issues definitely need to be addressed. This isn't 2004 or 2019. Minor things like potions stacking to 20, instant mail between toons on account, and bring /focus targeting to classic. Dual Spec or an easier way to reapec would be great. Traveling back to a city just to respec isn't "fun". Travel is good yes, but only if its worth it. Travel for the sake of making something inconvenient isn't good gameplay.
The only real complaint I have is the Autosalvage/shredder bullshit. That right there was the biggest waste of time and resources in SoD that I've seen. Actually planning on only playing alts that can do without the rune from there.
They need to give Moonkin Eclipse talent at 40 or 50 tier if they want Moonkin to ever be good. Previously Moonkin would use Starfire for raids, now they're trying to push Wrath as the spell to use with the Fury of Stormrage rune and that being the only way to never oom. Eclipse would fix this issue and make both spells worth casting. I agree that if they do not buff casters then we'll get a repeat of original vanilla/classic, which would be pretty boring.
Boomkin has basicly the best caster rune every other caster would KILL for no mana filler spell.
@@tinytimonfire Yet Moonkin and S.priest are the worst casters and would kill to be on top like the physical dps classes.
druids don't need to be a top dps class they are in a good spot as it is, feral is great and resto is actually something other than healing touch bot @@tichieljuspian3458
Wraith actually more damage per second than starfire, only reason it isn’t used in classic is because warlock curses doesn’t work on nature dmg.
If they added nature to the curse list, would help ele shams in pve also
I see you don't use your eyes.@@tichieljuspian3458
Premades are fine......Some people win some people lose. If your not having fun you need to figure out how to fix that.
It would be very nice for the terrain exploits to be patched out of WSG, there’s nothing more frustrating than to be about to kill the flag carrier just to watch them jump straight up a wall to safety.
Nah man, this ain't it chief. Criticism is fine, but this is like the same video. More complaining.
Blizzard is doing so, so much better than before. They communicate, listen and try to be transparent.
We are on one big PTR, you knew this before you started. There will be issues. Blizzard is actively fixing Ashenvale. What more do you want.
WSG premades are not great, but its not even an issue. Max is rank 3? If you are a vivid WSG enjoyer you can easily join a premade. No need for blizzard to fix this now.
Man, you really gotta stop with the caster BS. You made your point. They shouldn't do shit about it. "Will be an issue till 60" cmon now. We don't even know how they will be doing at 40.
Don't change the spells, that also impacts pvp and farming, its a dumb solution. Locks, mages priests are just as broken in pvp as melee are in pve. Reduce cast time? Buff ranks? Alter with runes? Less mana? Hello? If the issue is in the raid, fix it in the raid. Oh wait, they did exactly that by nerfing resistances! Just needs a bit more.
You don't need pve balance. Its a retail thing. Its only a thing if you care about speedrunning, which only hardcore players do. Who got the time to reroll to the best class anyway. Parsing is relative to class and the raid is being cleared in 25 minutes. Who needs balance in pve? If anything they need to nerf casters for pvp lol.
100% agree on botting, on of the only things bliz is silent about.
Here's what's needed for balance.
1) Every class has to have compelling reasons to both bring and gear them in the content that rewards gear (IE., raids, and to a lesser extent organized PvP). Just having a utility or buff that gets a token single person of that class/spec a raid slot (but being a bad place to put gear) is not enough.
2) Every class should have both strengths and weaknesses throughout the content that makes up the majority of actual play. This is *not* solely raids.
Vanilla *content* (not the Vanilla classes as they were) is relatively well-suited to allowing significant differences between things classes are strong and weak at while making every class worthwhile to bring and gear. Raids are easy, the main progression is in faster clear times, and trash makes up a significant portion of that clear time - so even if a class doesn't do the most single target damage on boss fights, if they can cleave through trash, they're still worth bringing and gearing.
Additionally, there's a lot of stuff to do outside of raids - AoE farming, stealth runs, elite farming, etc. The world outside of raiding matters, and it offers many different challenges, which the classes can approach in all sorts of ways.
Contrast this with Retail - or even TBC and especially Wrath - and you'll find that the main challenge in raids (for the vast majority of the playerbase) is killing the bosses, usually through blasting as much single target DPS as possible. This means any spec that doesn't deal good enough single target DPS becomes either irrelevant to bring and gear, or brought as a token 1 of for a buff while being last on upgrades. Couple this with the fact that the world outside of raiding matters very little, and you're left with the choice of completely homogenizing *at least* single target damage, or totally screwing over anyone whose class isn't "supposed" to be focused on single target damage.
As for SoD, so far at least the content seems to be relatively in line with Vanilla - the raid isn't particularly hard and there's lots of stuff to do outside of it. I would say that Kelris - being both the hardest boss and very much a single target DPS race - kind of throws a bit of a wrench into things, tilting the playing field too much in favor of ST DPS, but overall things are in a better place than WotLK/Retail at least in that regard.
It does seem like certain classes still need a bit of help, though; as things stand right now, *why* would you bring and gear a Shadow Priest in BFD when you could take a hunter (or even a mage/lock) instead? They certainly don't necessarily need to do the same ST DPS as a Hunter, *if there's actually another reason to bring and gear them*; but right now, I'm really not seeing one. Sucking at everything is just as much homogenization as being good at everything, only even less fun.
0 issues with SOD. It’s just not for sweaty ass content creators
Ding ding ding
They need to make battle grounds similar to MOBA maps if they want people to actually PVP.
absolutely great idea that would completely replace league of legends for me
Timestamps:
2:08 - Battle for Ashenvale Issues
4:15 - Premade BGs
9:13 - Casters and Rune Scaling
13:51 - Bots, Please report them out in the wild
15:18 - Quality of Life ideas
Caster problem is the 17% hit/resist mechanic and spells only criting for 150% (not 200% like melee crit). They could add raid/zone buffs (like in ICC) to fix both issues.
in BFD the "skull" bosses are only +2 level so casters only have 6% resist mechanic
15:10 reporting bots does not work the way you think. There are no gm's to check up on bots, rather the system auto ban's based on the amount of reports.
This is the same method players use to get rid of team captains in battlegrounds in retail. They simply mass report the team captain and get them banned, and since there are no gms, they just get banned because thats how the system works.
However, if a bot isn't getting reported by enough players, they will simply exist forever. If you find a bot in an out of the way place, your report is meaningless, because not enough players will report it. Even if a bot is banned, it's never permanent. The same bot will be back at it in a couple days-week when the ban lifts.
didnt they say something about how they cant change certain things because it runs on the same client as vanilla era? so changing nameplate distance, instant mail etc would also affect vanilla era.
i agree, it should have its own client if thats the case.
A shared client sounds so bad lol
On the other hand: are there really a lot of people that care about classic era? I feel like it’s pretty dead. Maybe that just my wrong assumption though.
It's literally not running on vanilla client. It's running on a modified Legion client.
Honest to freaking god, and I'm holding myself back here, who. the. fuck. cares. about seeing nameplates through walls anymore. Srsly.... it's beyond dumb and unnecessary. Fuck those 3 people left in the entire world that would care. Give us the 40yd nameplates and be done with it.
@@XFoX90 that was not the point. To rephrase it: classic era and SoD shouldn’t run on the same Legion client, so changes for SoD cannot affect classic era.
I believe this is BS because they added the rune system and new quests on the same client . And changed an entire dungeon to a raid on the same client. Would it maybe been annoying to do? Sure , impossible? No.
I do agree that breaking up premades vs solo q in BG's is a good idea. I tried a few WG runs, and it was miserable meeting the enemy team and seeing them all be level 19 with like two lvl 17-18's when my team was obviously made of people trying their first BG at whatever level they first happened to pass by the warbringer for the first time.
And even then, there's a huge difference between someone who were like me and just waited for lvl 19 to solo join for the first time, because I could see my flame shock-earth shock-lava lash combo do half HP or more of damage (because they, like me, probably only had some random greens with +2 bonus stats that they got while leveling), and the tryhard sweats in BiS gear that take 10% max HP from the same combo and close to 100-0 me in one combo of their own.
That ad makes me want wildstar classic
Me laughing at everyone thinking having access to higher spell ranks is gonna fix caster dps,
Literally in every iteration of classic so far melee has ruled the dps charts. More spell ranks is not the problem for casters
Biggest problem is: LFM BFD, must have bis gear, 7/7, gearscore, full enchants, pots, Faps, world buffs and be a 'big pumper'. The list of requirements to join a group for the easiest raid the world has ever seen grows daily, and we are only a few weeks in. WSG is pointless if you aren't in a premade.
yesterday I saw a „pumper group 300+ GS“
And? Let people play how the like. If they want to clear it with a pumper group, just make your own.@@kushykushkush1309
funny how i've never had this problem on the sweatiest eu server i just join a group
@@domerame5913 from the 10 messages per second I think it’s more than possible that you didn’t see that one. Maybe you‘re on a different server. I mean I’m not complaining with 312 gs but i think it’s ridiculous
I don’t want to hear any complaining from casters since all ranged classes dominate PvP rn. Your only looking at the pve data
THE biggest problem with SoD is, there's lack of content to play. As a single character player, reaching everything to gather was extremaly easy. It took like 5 days played. Now u just wait 3 days to reset ID to clear entire raid in 30 min. What a discovery
Duel Spec as a Prot Warrior Main would be amazing so I could PVP or DPS on certain fights. Hate feeling stuck.
i mean i main prot warrior and i just use a dps talent build. you really dont need the defense bonus of the prot tree
Agreed. You can tank in any spec as warrior@@logicchief7884
Another certified banger, I always love your videos. One thing is when you cratique something it often sounds like first world problems/nit picky. You do a great job of showcasing the good sides when you evaluate something. But when it comes to criticism, in my opinion, it often comes off as whinny and pretentious. I'm looking forward to seeing how you adjust, this can't be the first time someone has said this. I want to make it clear I'm not trying to disparage or hate. Just sharing my perspective. Also warriors are bis.
Remember all those pesky warriors selling ZG 250+ mobs xp boosts, and solo DM for mining? Just because your dmg meter isnt at the top doesnt mean your class is bad.
The statement about premades seems very misleading. It suggests most premades are hardcore PvPers, very organized, and queuing for honor, while this isn't really the case. There are tons of premades - I would say this is the majority I've faced, and all I've been in - that are barely more than pugs, that formed in trade or LFG chat, that are trying to grind rep for WSG from revered to exalted now, when there are no mounts, no other BGs to queue in, and classes have less in their kit to strategize around. They are by no means experts; it's just a little smidgen of communication through Discord is significantly better than people solo queuing and doing nothing but fighting in mid, completely ignoring or turning off BG chat, or even immediately AFKing if they see even half the people on the other side are from the same server.
"Saying if you want any semi-decent PvP you need to assemble a group, just is not realistic"? ...We're all completely aware of queuing for LFR in retail and at least a third of the raid immediately AFKing, right? To the point a pug normal raid is often easier than an LFR raid? We're also aware that SoD or not, this still Classic, where there's far more of an emphasis on grouping up with people instead of going full cowboy, right? The only reason there will be "more complaints about premade vs pug" if nothing is done about premade queuing is when you play an MMORPG where you disrespect subscription payment, the time, and the fun of other players who _also_ have limited time, but will spend less than 10 minutes putting together a pug premade in trade/LFG chat to not sit in WSG with 9 random people that blob in mid for 2 hours without even trying to go for the flag - something that's arguably far less fun and uses up much more of your time. You're going to get a LOT more of that solo queuing if premade queue is removed or segregated, and you're gonna get far longer queues as premade _or_ solo queues because of less players in each pool as a result of this, and potentially even longer for solo queues because of the hour plus mid-blob BGs that ignore the flags.
So, are we playing a game that incentivizes grouping up and talking with other people to have fun? Or are we playing a single-player game in a world where other players are essentially just window dressing, and if one person isn't having fun, then that means nobody is, because nobody else matters to that one person? Isn't this why people wanted Classic in the first place instead of retail? And no, I'm _not_ saying removing or segregating premade queues would be "too much like retail"; I'm not even saying it's "not enough like vanilla." What I'm saying is, it's subverting the fact you're playing a mass *multiplayer* online role-playing game. If you're going to be asocial, and expect the game to be designed specifically for people who are playing solo, while actively detracting from the gameplay experience for people who see "multiplayer" in the genre name and understand "I'm probably going to have to actually interact with other humans at some point," you might as well be playing on an unofficial server you're running locally, that's only you and a bunch of NPCs that are scripted to look like players.
I have played since 2006 and my favorite thing in WoW has always been Battlegrounds with randoms only. The randomness, the chaos, the small skirmishes, I just love it. On the contrary I absolutely hate premade battlegrounds.
Classic has been amazing, but I my heart long fiercely for playing pvp on equal footings.
Cmon WillE I love all of your videos, but stop milking the content. SoD is a solid 10/10. They are really trying their best and are adjusting things all the time.
I think the Ashenvale criticism is fair, but I've personally enjoyed it for the most part. The world pvp aspect has been great. While there usually isn't much pvp during the event itself, there is a ton of it leading up to +85-90%. That said, just yesterday I had a match where the two factions just duked it out in a massive brawl in between two camps. And there was practically no lag! It was the greatest pvp experience I've had in this game in a long time.
Concerning Issues in the future, the following things i would love to be adressed by blizzard:
1st: What about Dungeons at level 40,50 and 60? The Loot from Monastery is almost useless compared to bfd and there is no loot for leather wearing classes at all. If there is no adjustment to stats to make them relevant comparing to BFD, dungeon crawling is gone. And if there is no loot for leather wearers ... there is no incentive to go to the dungeon. Unless they find a different incentive.
2nd: What about great, classic Dungeon that are just a bit to high for the level bracket but way too low for the next? Like Zul Farrak and Uldaman. Really great dungeons but of no use bc the loot is level 42 (not wearable next phase) and definitly to low for the 50 bracket. It would be really sad if those dungeons only exists to keep the quests for faster leveling.
3rd: What happens at 60? Rework of the dungeon loot from strat, scholo and DM? Releasing all 40 man raids as 10 versions at once? what about ZG and AQ20?
I mean they did add chrono item for wbs and people seem fine with that. Dual spec yes please 🙏🏼
It's not about premades; it's about random gear. There is a private server where LV cap players are divided into two groups by ILv. They could easily divide players by gear, the same way you divide players by LV, you divide players by gear.
Even if the premade has better class composition and more healers, if the ILV is the same, it is going to be way more fair.
Players would still be able to form groups and have fun with friends, but they wouldn't be 10 guys with like 290 GS vs. 10 pugs with 140 GS.
Que with bad gear - then equip good gear in bg
@@Scottysaweet The system on the private server detect gear on bags and bank to avoid this... Bliz for sure can do even better...
If the queue system try to match same lv gear queue would go up, but games would be way more fun... If nothing works just remove premades... Now join solo and lose 95% of games make doing bgs pointless...
playing ally did 7 games today on 19lv bracket and lose all games... Don't really see a reason to keep playing...
they should probably tone down the rune scaling if they don't want to have to redo all mobs
I don't care that much about dual spec. The thing I want the most is having a class trainer for every class in every major city. Being a Druid in undercity sucks. I have to go back to org to respec. Or a rogue in Thunderbluff
This is how you fix pvp. Do what ascension did. Make honorable combat zones where its a 1v1 zone. Also make honor rewards greater from world pvp. Also make certain rewards only getable from world pvp. Ez
1. Ashenvale - I personally have no prob with it... it's sometimes annoying, but look it's the first phase...
2. Honor system - needs to be redone... (see points 3-4)
3. Changes are necessary... playing Vanilla again is not an option... they need to experiment and try as muny new things as possible (see point 4)
4. People who say that changes will make the game more like retail are just BRAINLESS the outcome of this seasonal servers has to be a new game, not a Vanilla with upgraded graphics....
5. BGs always been like this... Spliting pre-made and non pre-made isn't a solution... Maybe bring Rated BGs and then random BG pre-made disappear...
6. Instant mail is a must
7. Make talents as in retail... left click learn right click unlearn... can be done only near Innkeeper... dual spec is not enough... it has no downside... limiting people to play the game is dumb...
More changes please! Make the game with such an amazing world better!!! Thank you
Bliz should reward players who report bots with something IMO. I reckon a title of Bot Killer or something like that if you successfully identify and report 50 bots.
Make paladin buffs last longer than 5 minutes.
my only problem is that i want to have more end game dungeons / raids to do. once u do bfd thats it. they should add 2 raids every season. or 1 raid and 1 mega dungeon like bfd
heroic WC! =p
There is plenty to do. Play an alt, play PvP, get up your professions, farm stuff to prepare for next phase. Yea, there could be more, but I think it’s enough. Otherwise there is so much to do again, that people who can’t play on a daily basis feel behind and leave it. One reason we have so many players playing SoD is that it’s way more accessible for a lot more people, which is especially true for classic fans. Let’s be real, most classic players play it because they know it from their childhood. Most of them have more responsibilities they have to take care of now.
Possibly, depends how much time they can really put into everything, im happy with BFD / making alts atm
Agree 100% @@MusicJosh93
Just reward premade vs premade with consumeables, flasks, sharpening stones, trade goods they can sell on the AH. Now there's a good reason for the Q, and there's a good reason to win on top of the honor and just being the swqeatiest pvper in town.
Amazing idea... BLIZZ READ THIS
Increases inflation when botting is already an eternal problem and incentivizes win trading, hard pass.
@@jolssoni2499 That isn't what inflation is
@@cartwright1348 Typo, meant to write deflation.
for me, the reduced cost of respec is more than enough. At this rate there is no need for dual spec. You just want everything to be 100% convenient, and in the end that will actually turn it into retail.
Man I’d love to see dual spec option. Changing my priest into a heal spec. Or my ranger into melee spec at will would be awesome.
Changing runes let you change spec honestly.
16 isn't the level you get pickpocket dude. It's just the level that bots can successfully farm these dungeons. You get it at like lvl 8.
I do really wish there was something Blizzard could do to discourage minmaxing.
All the quality of life stuff is what made retail such a empty MMO where no one speaks to each other or really help one other as there just is no struggle the things people remember is coming over something hard be that just getting your own crafted items to a alt or grouping to kill elite monsters
the new holiday season event was allot of fun the death runs in tarnaris to free a reindeer we did as a guild and was so much fun, finding even the other quest the mobs are all lvl30-35 and need a small group to do it traveling the ninja pulls is all stuff that was horrible at the time but is what we all think back to as being awesome now so advocating for these things to hard will just make this a cheap copy of the current retail game.
Tell me atleast 5 QoL that made Retail feel empty ? People often say things like this with no substance. There’s not an issue with adding QoL to some stuff like FP shouldn’t have to be connected it’s a pain, untimed Battlegrounds is bad, 5 min buffs , soul shards not stacking, free respec (in a game mode designed to try new shit out) , buff to threat multipliers , there’s many QoL features that make the game better and don’t ruin anything about an MMO.
My main problem is that it's still vanilla. And the vanilla gameplay loop is not interesting to me. When autoattacks are my primary source of damage, I'm not engaged. When I have to pay to respec and experiment, I feel like my time is being wasted. The gameplay of Classic is very, very old-school that doesn't age very well.
Good points, your critics for classic, wotlk etc were always on point, i hope devs take a look to this
Ashenvale might be server dependent. The same complains can be applied to any server but on lone wolf I’d say it’s a relative success, plenty of spats happening out and about in a zone that never got the appreciation that was intended for it. A good amount of large scale team fights. Players are always going to find the quickest route to farm something, that can’t be helped. But all things considered, I never thought I’d have a nice thing to say about the zone. And that’s saying a lot. In all sod has been a massive success thanks to the stroke of genius that is metering content into level brackets so it’s not just about blasting through to the endgame, everything gets to be endgame.
12:49 "Make future runes or existing ones alter vanilla spells to bring them up a little notch in some way" are the best runes.
Something like Way of Earth does this and makes Shaman PVP funny as hell.
I’ve been having a blast as a shaman tank. Especially in PvP.
"Most premades are not in it for the PVP"
Honestly, it feels like this is true of most PVPers in general. WSG premades spam it for the rep. Ashenvale is just a PVE event. SoD is great fun in many ways, but I think atm it's not the best way to play the game if you want PVP, unless you're already part of an established group of PVP nolifers.
Instant mail for sure, but they should add more supply officers in other towns otherwise you have to go back to the city to hand in anyway.
Would it be cool, if they wanted to make changes to areas , like adding mailboxes, flightpaths, or things of similar nature, if a group of goblins or gnomes would show up in that area and work on the project for a few days? They might not even tell you what their building, but you'd know somethings being added and it would be an exciting and a fun way to put stuff in without just making it magically appear after an update. Thoughts?
Casters dont need buffs. They are releasing spell power gear. This actually worries me as melee... casters scale like crazy with spell power gear.
W takes all around, Im curious tho to see how you feel about the lockout for the only new content in SoD? I've been adamant that it makes no sense to lock this since the content is gonna be irrelevant once phase 2 happens and we should have access to it like we do for UBRS which is a pre-bis grind and isnt locked out (Overall I just hate the classic lockout system, Its lazy)
I hope they really change how bleeds/poisons work in classic. Having Elementals/Mechs Immune really sucks considering that kills 4 of your runes as Rogue.... 20% damage off mutilate, saber no bleed, envenom and deadly brew.
Some undeads also have this for bleeds.
Also pleaseeeeee combo points not getting removed when we switch targets. We can't even select a target without losing points. We don't even need to hit them. Even when we want to kick an off target, we lose our combo points. It was annoying as a DPS all through classic and it makes me not even want to try tanking.
All locks are not playing destro.
You only use SB on a nighfall proc as affliction. Affliction with haunt build is fine dps wise
I do think change is necessary. One way or another this isn't vanilla because of the amount of resources we have at our disposal compared to 2004 when everyone was just lucky to hear a rumor about how to acquire the uncorrupted Ashbringer.
'Complaints TL;DR'
- Ashenvale is 'bugged' but you can still farm it for rep... So not really a problem esp for the long term
- PvP premades, literally not an SoD problem, not even a WoW problem as it exists in multiple games
- Game is not 100% perfectly balanced / Casters Scaling / Are not top DPS... again not really a problem esp for the long term
- Bots.... again not an SoD problem, not even a WoW problem as it exists in multiple games
So the only 'SoD problem' is the Ashenvale bug... No need to complain for the sake of being different... Its okay to say Blizzard is doing a good job lol
You mean the game is not unbalanced. Casters need to be best aoe dps + best single target dps + best utility + best mobility + best in pvp + best gold farming. Actually just delete melee
I echo the sentiment about dual spec. I strongly want it in season of discovery, it is a massive quality of life boost for PvP and also playing a tank or healer.
instant mail between characters of the same account would be so nice
I think its in a good state and they are taking the issues seriously. Weekly updates plus hotfixes in between.
I am ok with blizzard experimenting and I think we should be ok with blizzard experimenting. This is exactly what we've been asking them to do for ages. Old blizzard only ever did the safe, predictable thing. That's how we ended up with Shadowlands.
Dual spec would be HUGE. I main a Warrior so being able to switch between Fury and Prot would be amazing. Thunderfury wouldn't go to waste. KEKW
Players only have themselves to blame for ruining the Ashenvale event.
"Given the opportunity, players will optimise the fun out of a game".
Bots wise I think it's insane you're seeing people pay 200g for items on the AH. It's a bit overzealous but I honestly think anyone throwing 100g+ at anything needs a 3 day ban. You either bought the gold or are contributing to the inflation, no excuses.
Love your videos man, but could you make some content that's more positive and things that you are enjoying. Rather than videos complaining about everything and all the problems that we already know, that you said in your last few videos or that have been issues for years.
what im liking is Blizzard are "trying new things" we have to allow them to make mistakes and not be perfect.... if they tried new things and just left them then we woudl complain even more!!! Atleast there trying new things and also listening to us i think we have to give them the benefit of the doubt..... you cant cry for new things and when new things happen complain it isnt perfect!!! we have to be accepting that perfection takes time and errors... im not saying you aint im just saying im seeing alot of people who rightfully asked for this type of game now talk negative about it soo much... Blizzard devs are donig a great job imo and more videos like this can help them for sure but lets appreciate there efforts.
Wow has never been about true balance, it's been about patching and adding new things to create player retention. Leveled a mage but don't like being middle of the pack? Roll a melee, and join the leaderboards. And when you consider balancing you have to take into account that ranged and casters have... well.. range, and this correlates into pvp, and generally easier mechanics than melee. A mage can freeze and slow enemies, a warlock can fear and if they're a meta lock then they can 3vs1 people easily. Feral druids can kite and spam sunfire. Rogues rely on openers. Rogue tanks have no AOE. Warrior tanks are basically bottom of the barrel. There's a lot more to complain about than PVE DPS meters in terms of balance. You should play what is fun, and enjoy the game for what it is. If mages and warlocks and priests get runes in the next phase and outshine melee by a mile will you address that? Because it seems like knit picking because the class you chose isn't at the top. Usually enjoy your takes but the last couple on SoD have been quite negative, and obtusely critical knowing how Blizz works.
Meta is a joke in pvp. 3v1? Maybe 3 idiots vs a geared out lock.
Completely agree with this. SoD has been extremely enjoyable. I definitely agree on the WSG point though. Pre-mades should be matched against premades.
Tbh I dont really do PvP but I dont see the problem with just letting people get in a specific premade Battleground queue. Its pike having a separate Olympics for athletes who do steroids/drugs. And in regards to casters versus melee DPS: Kind of just sounds pike WillE is salty about not being able to top the DPS chart as a Warlock. You would need a complete overhaul of how spells work, like in Cataclysm, to make casters do more damage than melee.
I'm loving it... not sure if this is an original thought or not but I'm thinking there will be one slot fit any rune to unlock somehow at 50 or 60, maybe neck? Then we could have two leg runes equipped or two chests, etc. A nice long uber chain waiting for us at max level perhaps?
Before I go to far I'll admit, I'm not a classic guy. Started playing during vanilla and at the time thought it was dope only because it was the 1st mmo I've ever played. SInce then I truly believe the game as made strides in far better gameplay.
With that annoying preface out of the way, I was really hoping they would of cataclysmed* the spell rank system during this, besides vanilla's quest design (which for me is incredibly aweful) it was another thing in this game that I was so glad they changed and I wished they had done so during SoD. Personally, SoD for me is proving to be too vanilla for me and I hope you folks get the changes you want to make your experiences better.
Why criticizing for content sake…
One concern I have thought of lately is how these level up raids will make the unreleased dungeon content irrelevant. Obviously not for everyone but hear me out. RFK, SM and RFD gear will be mostly irrelevant if you geared in BFD. Looking forward to the lvl 50 cap, I can't imagine a lvl 50 raid not having better gear than almost any lvl 60 dungeon. Will this make the irrelevant? I'm thinking with gear and runes MC and BWL should release with the lvl 60 cap.
Hard agree with everything except dual spec. If any dual spec is to be in the game, I think it needs to be done in a way where you can't easily swap mid raid or it's going to be an (IMO, of course) unfun way of sweating/minmaxing. People are already swapping runes - some even have multiples, e.g. gloves and swap between trash/bosses).
Can we talk about for the pvp event Blizz didn’t even try to optimize ashenvale for it, they just threw in the bosses and the pointless horde and alliance 0-100% timers. I fought in the pvp event after downing the boss in ZS i was killed during my time there ported to a spirit healer in darkshore and the game ended giving me nothing for my effort. Thanks Blizzard.
I always like WillE's insight into WoW, but come on. It's level 25. Let it breathe a bit.
My biggest issue was not mentioned, so I leave it here.
I was playing a healer priest in classic, and the lack of dualspec (with the combination of healing vs spell dmg gear difference) makes it so hard to keep up with farming or even leveling before lvl60.
Now, the runes are offering a small % solution for this, but still, I feel that it will not be enough and I have to quit (again). I'm sure there will be fella hPaladins, rDruids and rShamans in the same situation.