FYI for anyone wondering What is meant by "older hardware", the recomended amd64-v2 is post 2009, QEMU emulation, and SSE3 SSE4. v3 is about 2015 with avx, avx2, FMA...; v4 is current gen. "Microarchitecture levels In 2020, through a collaboration between AMD, Intel, Red Hat, and SUSE, three microarchitecture levels on top of the x86-64 baseline were defined: v2, v3, and v4.These levels define specific features that can be targeted by programmers to provide compile-time optimizations. The features exposed by each level are as follows: ... "
Interesting presentation of Rocky 9. Unfortunately the company I work for is lagging a bit behind since we started rolling out RHEL 8 on VMs and a few bare metal hosts only by the beginning of this year. I think I should download the ISO of Rocky 9 and install it on spare laptop of mine, though I know that this isn't the intended HW for it and thus might not be supported fully. But I prefer to get an impression of the OS on real HW rather than in a VM.
I agree something about running on bare metal just seems different. It feels more real. I made sure my latest laptop purchase had a RHEL certification. Theoretically It would work just fine even though it was certified for RHEL 8. Currently running Fedora on it.
@@lejoshmont2093 may I ask you what brand and model of laptop you purchased to serve as a RHEL device? P.S. I too run Fedora 35 on my six year old cheap model (it had cost only 299 € new then) of Lenovo laptop which is astonishingly well supported by Fedora.
I really couldn't tell you how much I appreciate your channel! I'm still fairly new to Linux (about 2 years) so I'm always trying to learn new things. At the moment, I'm running Fedora 37 workstation, but am considering switching to Rocky. Debian was always my go-to, but as my skills have advanced, so have my desires for newer software and a distribution with more support and a better-organized development environment. Hence, why I'm running Fedora. I think there's an argument that could be made that it's the best Linux distro available, but now I have my eye on Rocky, and I think it's a very close second. Anywho, cheers DJ Ware and thanks for all the time you put into your videos!
@@alexstone691 I did try it for a while. It's a very good distro, but designed more for servers and not so much a desktop. I've been running Void for my daily for a while now and OpenBSD on my laptop. Had to get away from systemd lol
@@liquidmobius Interestinf, i hopped around but mostly windoes on main, now after it borked itself im on silverblue for a while i dont hvae anything against systemd it actually helped me a lot of times and the init that gentoo uses was ton slower
@@alexstone691 You did a Gentoo install?! That definitely earns bragging rights! It took me three tries and 6 hours to install Gentoo, but it's too high maintenance. I'm really into the suckless tools, so super minimalism. That's why I like runit and open-rc.
@@liquidmobius I did few gentoo installs do not know how many attempts, both in a vm and on a computer but got tired after installing lxqt on the computer cause it took so fricking long, i understand the appeal but its just wear and tear on the hardware and power used for basically nothing I like minimalism too (my prompt is basically only '$' or '%' on zsh) but systemd has managed to solve many issues that were caused from the fragmented system init, standardization is always a win in my book
I try Rocky 9 & Alma 9, both having the same issue on my thinkpad laptop, which is no audio device detected. Is it RHEL issue or kernel issue, I don't know
Thank you. I'd love the see the same comparison for Oracle Linux 9 with standard RHEL kernel and with their custom UEK kernel. I love how you present your videos and reviews.
Funny thing with the graphic featuring a TB mbp. I actually attempted an install on such a machine and the usb ports failed to work correctly. So I reverted to 8.6.
I forgot just how heavy gnome has become, an 8G install size with about 1G ram usage, on tumbleweed using lxqt with kwin I have a 2.9G install size with about 440M of ram usage, I also got a lynis score of 84.
Intel processors since Clarksdale and others have in-built AES crypto acceleration, it makes a huge difference for protocols which use AES in performance. Since I use hypervisors you have to set the CPU type and options to enable it for the guest vm. Intel calls it AES-NI.
@@CyberGizmo Ah, passing through AES-NI to the VM. It seems AMD piledriver(FX-8320 ~2013) has AES-NI enabled according to the OS. That's the oldest AMD CPU I have in working condition.
@DJ Hello to you. I like your vids and have been watching them for the last month or so. The only thing is htat the audio is low on my end. I've ruled myself out as the issue because of the many ppl I do watch and some of those guys are loud on my end and others are low, even way to o low. Typically I have some sort of common environment noise like a fan. This is where I say your vids are low because I can't really hear you over the fan and my speakers are as loud as they are going to get so I end up having to use headphones at time. But even then the audio is still low. Maybe you can find a way on your end to boost the loudness? I did bring this up on another channel and he addressed it since a number of us apparently mentioned it to him. And his audio is very much better and is like the othr guys that have booming audio (on my end) I believe he said he is doing something with compression in post editing? And increased the 'loudness' on something. All I know is that it is a world of difference for my ability to hear him. And that would be awesome for me/others if you had something similar to that instead of the low audio that has me having to lean into the speakers and/or turn off the fan etc. And you put out good stuff so it is worth being heard and heard loudly :) Thank you
As I understand it, almost all of the packages in OpenSuse Tumbleweed use it, as for the other distributions, I do not know. I believe Firefox is still using it as well. Would be nice to find a list somewhere..**EDIT: I almost forgot, Fedora had a proposal for using LTO by default back in Fedora 33.
@@CyberGizmo as server? since both are under Rhel(altho Rhel gave up on Centos), most of the terminal commands are the same. btw, what DE does it support, Rocky Linux?
Great review as always. I know distros like RHEL, CentOS, and their derivatives might be intended more for server use cases, but could they be a viable desktop OS? Are there any advantages, such as stability and performance? Any disadvantages (and ways to mitigate these)? The debate between stability and latest-and-greatest is a debate typically between rolling release distros like Arch, non-rolling but regularly updated distros like Ubuntu and Fedora, and then LTSR or LTSR-like releases (e.g., Debian). If someone likes Fedora, but doesn't want to upgrade every several months, are RHEL/CentOS/etc., a good alternative? It's never been clear to me why these distros rarely are in the desktop distro discussion.
Hi Brad, great question. I suppose the proper way to answer that is for me to try it out for 30 days and do a video on what I find out. You are right most people use it to support their server environments, application development, DevOps, and certification. So will work on that.
@@bradm1507 If you want a relatively hands off approach after install It would be a good option I would think. ~10ish years to not have to deal with os upgrades does have its appeal especially with machines that are not daily drivers. To me it would seem like it would be a good fit for the libraries and the like where you can still find the occasional internet connected windows 7 machine running. yikes!
@@lejoshmont2093 I think my biggest issue is how OS choice affects app updates and availability. Just because I don't want the risks of rolling releases or the "hassle" of reinstalling every 6 months shouldn't mean that I'm stuck with outdated app versions. This problem doesn't really exist in Windows, e.g., I can run the latest version of most apps regardless of whether I'm on Windows 10 or 11. I know Flatpaks, AppImages, etc., address this and probably are the way of the future, but ideally these need to be packaged by the app developer, just like developers package EXEs and MSIs. Conceptually, these unofficial AppImages and Flatpaks packaged by "random" people seem like a security risk--why should trust them? Same could be said about the AUR.
@@bradm1507 I don't install a lot of flatpaks or appimages but the ones I have I'm pretty sure were packaged by the developers. Yea flatpaks, etc are pretty much the only way to get up today apps on a stable release cycle. Though I am still fond of traditional packages even if they are an older version.
Have no idea, it would have been nice if they had given us some idea of the cut-off, but I did not see anything in the release notes or blog post for redhat.
amd64-v2 starts about 2009 although its more about specific instruction set extentions. The v1,2,3,4 instruction set thing ts a retro-standard started in 2020 by AMD, Redhat and a couple others.
![[BEFORE vs AFTER] Incredibox Sprunki - Freaky Song](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xiZLkGWew6s/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks, love your reviews and work !
Thank you David for your kind comments and the 5 Euros appreciate it
Detailed analysis as usual. Keep the great work up!
Much appreciated, Benjamin
FYI for anyone wondering What is meant by "older hardware", the recomended amd64-v2 is post 2009, QEMU emulation, and SSE3 SSE4.
v3 is about 2015 with avx, avx2, FMA...;
v4 is current gen.
"Microarchitecture levels
In 2020, through a collaboration between AMD, Intel, Red Hat, and SUSE, three microarchitecture levels on top of the x86-64 baseline were defined: v2, v3, and v4.These levels define specific features that can be targeted by programmers to provide compile-time optimizations. The features exposed by each level are as follows: ... "
Given how new they are, and where they came from - - really good work from them so far.
Please enjoy this community engagement comment. Have a nice day.
Interesting presentation of Rocky 9.
Unfortunately the company I work for is lagging a bit behind since we started rolling out RHEL 8 on VMs and a few bare metal hosts only by the beginning of this year.
I think I should download the ISO of Rocky 9 and install it on spare laptop of mine, though I know that this isn't the intended HW for it and thus might not be supported fully.
But I prefer to get an impression of the OS on real HW rather than in a VM.
I agree something about running on bare metal just seems different. It feels more real. I made sure my latest laptop purchase had a RHEL certification. Theoretically It would work just fine even though it was certified for RHEL 8. Currently running Fedora on it.
@@lejoshmont2093 may I ask you what brand and model of laptop you purchased to serve as a RHEL device?
P.S. I too run Fedora 35 on my six year old cheap model (it had cost only 299 € new then) of Lenovo laptop which is astonishingly well supported by Fedora.
I really couldn't tell you how much I appreciate your channel! I'm still fairly new to Linux (about 2 years) so I'm always trying to learn new things. At the moment, I'm running Fedora 37 workstation, but am considering switching to Rocky. Debian was always my go-to, but as my skills have advanced, so have my desires for newer software and a distribution with more support and a better-organized development environment. Hence, why I'm running Fedora. I think there's an argument that could be made that it's the best Linux distro available, but now I have my eye on Rocky, and I think it's a very close second. Anywho, cheers DJ Ware and thanks for all the time you put into your videos!
Did you switch to rocky? How is it?
@@alexstone691 I did try it for a while. It's a very good distro, but designed more for servers and not so much a desktop. I've been running Void for my daily for a while now and OpenBSD on my laptop. Had to get away from systemd lol
@@liquidmobius Interestinf, i hopped around but mostly windoes on main, now after it borked itself im on silverblue for a while i dont hvae anything against systemd it actually helped me a lot of times and the init that gentoo uses was ton slower
@@alexstone691 You did a Gentoo install?! That definitely earns bragging rights! It took me three tries and 6 hours to install Gentoo, but it's too high maintenance. I'm really into the suckless tools, so super minimalism. That's why I like runit and open-rc.
@@liquidmobius I did few gentoo installs do not know how many attempts, both in a vm and on a computer but got tired after installing lxqt on the computer cause it took so fricking long, i understand the appeal but its just wear and tear on the hardware and power used for basically nothing
I like minimalism too (my prompt is basically only '$' or '%' on zsh) but systemd has managed to solve many issues that were caused from the fragmented system init, standardization is always a win in my book
I try Rocky 9 & Alma 9, both having the same issue on my thinkpad laptop, which is no audio device detected. Is it RHEL issue or kernel issue, I don't know
Good One D.J. Thank You.
Thank you. I'd love the see the same comparison for Oracle Linux 9 with standard RHEL kernel and with their custom UEK kernel. I love how you present your videos and reviews.
Thanks Rob
yes, i must admit it does run quick. alot faster than fedora
Funny thing with the graphic featuring a TB mbp. I actually attempted an install on such a machine and the usb ports failed to work correctly. So I reverted to 8.6.
I forgot just how heavy gnome has become, an 8G install size with about 1G ram usage, on tumbleweed using lxqt with kwin I have a 2.9G install size with about 440M of ram usage, I also got a lynis score of 84.
Could you please share link to benchmark results?
Sure: openbenchmarking.org/user/djware
Have fun
Rocky 9 ARM64 provides the signed shim.efi ?
im using Rocky 8.6 on my VPS. Thanks it just occurred to me that perhaps i should upgrade for the newer kernel
What do you mean by turning on AES? A firmware setting or kernel complile option?
Intel processors since Clarksdale and others have in-built AES crypto acceleration, it makes a huge difference for protocols which use AES in performance. Since I use hypervisors you have to set the CPU type and options to enable it for the guest vm. Intel calls it AES-NI.
@@CyberGizmo Ah, passing through AES-NI to the VM.
It seems AMD piledriver(FX-8320 ~2013) has AES-NI enabled according to the OS. That's the oldest AMD CPU I have in working condition.
i'm seeing a consistent hardened index range of around 66 for the more "secure" linux distros. i wonder, what does a hardened index of 100 look like?
I can tell you, its a machine that is almost impossible to get it to do anything :D. I ended up reverting some of the changed back
@DJ
Hello to you. I like your vids and have been watching them for the last month or so. The only thing is htat the audio is low on my end. I've ruled myself out as the issue because of the many ppl I do watch and some of those guys are loud on my end and others are low, even way to o low. Typically I have some sort of common environment noise like a fan. This is where I say your vids are low because I can't really hear you over the fan and my speakers are as loud as they are going to get so I end up having to use headphones at time. But even then the audio is still low.
Maybe you can find a way on your end to boost the loudness?
I did bring this up on another channel and he addressed it since a number of us apparently mentioned it to him. And his audio is very much better and is like the othr guys that have booming audio (on my end)
I believe he said he is doing something with compression in post editing? And increased the 'loudness' on something. All I know is that it is a world of difference for my ability to hear him. And that would be awesome for me/others if you had something similar to that instead of the low audio that has me having to lean into the speakers and/or turn off the fan etc.
And you put out good stuff so it is worth being heard and heard loudly :)
Thank you
H Cleight will see what I can do, thanks for letting me know
What is in Your opinion the "go to" RHEL recompilation? Rocky Linux or Alma Linux
I haven't looked at Alma Linux yet, its on the list.
What software is being built using LTO ?
As I understand it, almost all of the packages in OpenSuse Tumbleweed use it, as for the other distributions, I do not know. I believe Firefox is still using it as well. Would be nice to find a list somewhere..**EDIT: I almost forgot, Fedora had a proposal for using LTO by default back in Fedora 33.
is Rocky Linux a good altenative as web server for CENTOS?
oh yes, it is a great alternative to CentOS
@@CyberGizmo as server? since both are under Rhel(altho Rhel gave up on Centos), most of the terminal commands are the same. btw, what DE does it support, Rocky Linux?
Not sure I understand your question
Great review as always. I know distros like RHEL, CentOS, and their derivatives might be intended more for server use cases, but could they be a viable desktop OS? Are there any advantages, such as stability and performance? Any disadvantages (and ways to mitigate these)?
The debate between stability and latest-and-greatest is a debate typically between rolling release distros like Arch, non-rolling but regularly updated distros like Ubuntu and Fedora, and then LTSR or LTSR-like releases (e.g., Debian). If someone likes Fedora, but doesn't want to upgrade every several months, are RHEL/CentOS/etc., a good alternative? It's never been clear to me why these distros rarely are in the desktop distro discussion.
Hi Brad, great question. I suppose the proper way to answer that is for me to try it out for 30 days and do a video on what I find out. You are right most people use it to support their server environments, application development, DevOps, and certification. So will work on that.
@@CyberGizmo Thanks, DJ, look forward to it!
@@bradm1507 If you want a relatively hands off approach after install It would be a good option I would think. ~10ish years to not have to deal with os upgrades does have its appeal especially with machines that are not daily drivers. To me it would seem like it would be a good fit for the libraries and the like where you can still find the occasional internet connected windows 7 machine running. yikes!
@@lejoshmont2093 I think my biggest issue is how OS choice affects app updates and availability. Just because I don't want the risks of rolling releases or the "hassle" of reinstalling every 6 months shouldn't mean that I'm stuck with outdated app versions. This problem doesn't really exist in Windows, e.g., I can run the latest version of most apps regardless of whether I'm on Windows 10 or 11.
I know Flatpaks, AppImages, etc., address this and probably are the way of the future, but ideally these need to be packaged by the app developer, just like developers package EXEs and MSIs. Conceptually, these unofficial AppImages and Flatpaks packaged by "random" people seem like a security risk--why should trust them? Same could be said about the AUR.
@@bradm1507 I don't install a lot of flatpaks or appimages but the ones I have I'm pretty sure were packaged by the developers.
Yea flatpaks, etc are pretty much the only way to get up today apps on a stable release cycle. Though I am still fond of traditional packages even if they are an older version.
Will it work on intel cpus released on 2012?
Have no idea, it would have been nice if they had given us some idea of the cut-off, but I did not see anything in the release notes or blog post for redhat.
amd64-v2 starts about 2009 although its more about specific instruction set extentions. The v1,2,3,4 instruction set thing ts a retro-standard started in 2020 by AMD, Redhat and a couple others.
AlmaLinux is good too
Nice👍
But RHEL just came with cockpit (Insights) since 6.4 version... i don't see nothing special, than the Red Hat
I know, they didnt just add cockpit they just gave us a few more options to use to monitor it.
I try redhat 9. redhat 9 remove redhat-lsb, it's terrible
Been awhile since I have seen references to the LSB standard