Money Problems & ADHD
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- This short video reviews the science on what is known about the increased risks for various money management problems associated with adult ADHD. it also provides various recommendations for addressing them including getting diagnosed and adequately treated for the ADHD and its symptoms that are driving the money management problems.
You can find more information on this topic in my book, Taking Charge of Adult ADHD.
Out of all the topics, this has to be one of the most important. And shows how significant ADHD is in terms of impact. Not a cute child being manic but severe long term damage.
No1 problem with the sensible tasks is the mental and emotional burden and barriers, exactly per DrB phrase: Performance Problem.
Knowing what to do but failing to execute.
The perceptions that finances are complex - and often this is true.
The shame & regret can be debilitating & overwhelming. The literal pain of having to face the numbers.
All together can be a major barrier to getting the simplest task done.
And in external contexts, the people you encounter in banks etc have zero understanding or sympathy, and in the poorer sectors are more likely to be sharks looking to exploit another mark.
But the biggest bomb in finance is the concept of COMPOUNDING. Which means that failure to tackle the norms of savings pensions property etc, after a year, a decade... that TIME can never be recovered.
The trajectory of life is set by the financial steps taken in your 20s & 30s.
Closely related to career trajectory, clearly you can't save what you don't EARN.
Thank you!
This is so valuable. I am 73, and I am one of those with less income now due to adhd. I plsn to share this with my dear grandson ❤
I've found my earning potential hampered by being fired due to untreated adhd, and starting over in various entry level positions because i keep starting over with a career.
Yeah I feel that... For me the problem is, I don´t trust myself to be able keeping up with 8h+ of undesired work a day, without getting thrown back straight into depression. So I´m basically working just enough to get around. At least overspending isn´t too much of an issue for me. (inattentive)
I grew up in rural Eastern Germany and the mentality here is "If you can´t afford it in cash, you can´t afford it at all."
One thing that I think Dr. Barkley should consider is the effect of ADHD and other conditions have on the perception of other people. Just being different makes your odds of succeeding in life way lower than average. So it would also be nice to have you talking about prejudice against neurodivergent people as something that counts as a problem. Not just the condition itself.
A fine idea. There is some research on this but not much. I will look into it. Thanks for the suggestion and for watching this channel.
Thank you for looking into prejudice against people with neurodivergence, Dr. Barkley! My time blindness is so severe I dropped out of high school and two colleges despite good grades because of teachers' anger about my lack of punctuality. I *genuinely* didn't know how to fix it, and can STILL get derailed easily despite learning to do things like pre-plan, use a visual timer and alarms, pre-drive routes, keep a metacognition log of recurring blindspots, allow an early arrival buffer, etc., etc.
In junior high, a teacher permanently banned me from his class due to lateness, and I've lost MULTIPLE jobs (or quit to avoid being fired) because of it, even though timeliness wasn't relevant to the performance of the job.
It's not an exaggeration to say my entire life---and certainly my finances---would be different if there was even a little more understanding that sometimes "simple" things really are that difficult for people with invisible disabilities.
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge, Dr. Barkley!@@russellbarkleyphd2023
@@bellaluce7088I agree with you. I've had chronic pain (autoimmune conditions) since age 11. I didn't know that I had ADHD until last year. I'm divorced because of all of it. And he didn't know how to deal with me or the stress of the whole situation. I became very ill at age 42 with fibromyalgia. I can't tell you how much BS I've been through LOL 😂 I have to laugh cuz no one would believe me 😆 But I'm still here! I'm 69 and just being diagnosed has been life altering. I love ADDitude and Dr Barkley is brilliant ‼️ I've listened to so many of his podcasts. Dr Dodson is another good one. This site has been essential for me. I have severe RSD and this money thing has been something I've tried to deal with since I got an allowance. I have no problem spending it. I just don't have a good way of making it 😂🤦♀️
I have hated math because it's like a different language to me. So far I can't do either. I'm trying to figure it out. Have a nice Holiday 💜🌠
This hit too close to home. I was diagnosed as an adult. What helped me with this is to automate all my bills and just focus on my job. I am still prone to impulse buying. But I am getting better. But my saving grace has been automatic with all my bills, savings and spending.
I can't do that, because autopay isn't stopped by the bank, so I could end up underwater + with a penalty multiple times over. It's much better to call and negotiate over the phone if I don't have enough.
invest please #adhdadvocate #dysgraphiaadvocate
Oooph, this one hurts.
Fortunately I was finally diagnosed in the beginning of my 30s and am now 45 - I am still not good at saving, but I got help to make a budget account and they put in more than I need for utilities, so if I get a bigger vet bill or my phone dies, I can deal.
But when I was younger and needed it the most, I had no help at all AND less money - the stress and guilt was horrible.
Thank you Boomer in Flannel!
Burst out laughing at that intro. You were made for TH-cam Dr. B!
I have pretty severe ADHD-primarily inattentive (severe bc I was diagnosed as a girl in middle school in 2003), but the problem isn't spending (I'm anxious about money), it's that I live paycheck to paycheck, with single digits left for basic necessities left the day before each paycheck, or slightly underwater, but I'm also too anxious to ever do anything to change my circumstances significantly (in which I'm dirt poor and hating life). Idgi, ADHD is supposed to be spontaneous but this "impulsive" thing be like "I'm going to try a different flavor of protein bar today bc it's on discount" (not actually spending more than I would have, just trying a flavor) 🙃🙃
Yup, my problem as inattentive presentation isn’t spending money, it’s making money. I am really bad at making money.
@@briananderson5102 Thanks does HVAC tech require you to do an apprenticeship and get licensed?
Thanks for all your insights and videos, Dr Barkley.
I find the idea of “growing out of” ADHD so stigmatising and unscientific. It just shows that the assessment criteria, especially of adults, remains woefully inadequate and/or inconsistent.
You don’t grow out of ADHD. The challenges and struggles evolve, and hence the treatment and focus of support also needs to evolve.
As a late-diagnosed female, I love your research and balanced advice. However, I had to laugh at the idea of putting a sticker/note on a credit card - everything is electronic now (Apple Pay etc) who even looks at a physical card anymore!😂 We need the payment system to show the message "Are you sure? Please come back in 30 minutes to continue" by which time we will forget about the purchase! 🤣😂
But seriously, I have never saved in my life, I find 'controlled credit' works for me, so buy now, pay in 3 monthly instalments - that kinda thing. I also struggle with the need v want, when shopping. I got help for my money issues about 15 years ago, and I really try not to mess up so badly again. My ADHD clinic told me about a bank account (Monzo, in the UK) where you can divide your money into pots which can be done automatically when you deposit your wages etc.
Don’t connect them to Apple Pay! I found that I tend to forget a card exists when they aren’t an option on Apple Pay
Don't forget the "ADHD tax" - buying multiples of the same thing because... 1. You won't use it unless it's immediately accessible when needed; 2. You broke/lost your first one almost immediately after opening it; 3. You forgot you already got the thing you needed and are too embarrassed to return it; 4. You accidentally clicked "add to cart" twice.
Am I missing any?
The mindset of 'I need to get xyz' doesn't go away. For YEARS. So you see the thing on reduction and get it. KNOWING that you have 6 already.
I think I do this as much as neurotypicals (less actually because I almost never buy "pleasure" stuff, just food, shampoo, paper towels etc), I'm just shit at actually making any money in the first place. 😢
Reusable water bottles aren't very reusable - mine have legs and run away by themselves.
my 22 year old had ADHD tax bad. i fixed it in 7 minutes. i cancelled everything. #adhdadvocate #dysgraphiaadvocate
Has anyone looked at how many people were not just affected by their impulsivity in purchases, but the costs of the various comorbidities like autoimmune diseases and automotive accidents? While my mother had the issues with unneeded purchases, my problems have largely been health related and the effects of unemployment or underemployment. Everything stacks. An auto pay system is also a disaster if the decision is which bill shouldn't be paid that month. I wish this wasn't a reality, but it is.
Add on to this when I was charged a month's salary due to losing my keys. Every day is an accident waiting to happen.
I doubt it. The more variables you introduce the harder such a study would be to conduct and control (or the hard it would be to find relevant high quality data). But from personal experience, these are actually my top 3 problems with ADHD. Driving, money, and health. Type 1 diabetes in particular is the fiddliest stupid disease ever. All these lucky assholes that just take a pill, and I am over here having to do integrals and titrate my own dosages and collect information about my blood sugar on a near constant basis. If disease management were the only thing I ever had to worry about it'd still be too damn much.
And add onto it autism with the special interests and collections.
@@homelessrobot - just what I'm talking about. Fellow type 1 diabetic here (LADA), who suffered a major near fatal automotive accident. These statistics often talk about how ADHD affects us financially, but the degree to which it is impulsive purchases really depends on whether the other comorbidities are also dragging us down. I do have a number of those around my house, mainly from younger days, but it's the stack of healthcare bills and holding onto employment that really drug me down.
Wow, my brother and I were talking about this today. We both finally started getting our stuff together after years of being undiagnosed.
Good on you two!
I'm 45 now and it's not perfect, but with correct DX, medication and accomodations, it's so much better and less stressful - even with bigger bills to pay.
Great job! ❤🎉
@@Finkeldinkenwhich medication are you taking? Im trying to see if i can find the right meds
My family doesn't want to help me with the diagnosis (childhood symptoms) they don't believe in labelling and do not want me tk get medication. I mean, it's not that I want medication, I judt eant answers and tools. Then a professional advised me to control my stress for 5 months in order to continue with the diagnosis, which is hard because I live in Argentina. I am sure my perfectionism hides my ADHD, which is painful because thst is another problem, but at the same time it is my go to mechanism to get thing done.
ask them to take off their prescription glasses or stop taking heart meds or stop using a walker and see how they like it. if your and adult who cares what they say. youre suffering. #adhdadvocate #dysgraphiaadvocate
Because we get these ideas, that on paper seem so good, and so logical, and they blow up in our faces and cost so much.
I thought to buy a boat. Wanted to rent one for a few months but they don't rent them for those sort of time periods and renting one for 8 weeks at tourist rates would cost thousands. Every penny dead and not coming back.
So? Buy one and then sell it afterwards and that way I won't lose too much money, or so I thought. Only many such narrow boats are a bit dark and dingy inside so I looked and looked and found one that was full of light. I fell in love. I bought it at a good knocked down price, after being told that the repairs would cost around £16k. Except they didn't cost that, they cost nearly £50k, putting the final price for a still not functioning correctly boat at nearly £100k and a new one would have only cost £80k. And I lived aboard for 3 months, because stupid wife refused to set foot aboard it. And this was the first time I'd lived alone since I was in my teens (nearly 60 now) and without her routine to keep me in check I spiralled into full blown ADHD chaos. Stopped eating properly and lost over 30 pounds in weight and I was thin to start with. Smoking like a Soviet industrial zone, eating sporadically at take aways. Trying to sell the boat now, having already lost many thousands and by the time the dust has settled I'll be lucky to have lost less than £70,000. Over.a period of a little over 2 years, of which I had the boat to live on since late September last year (2023). A total and utter disaster.
I inherited a modest sum, under £200k. And family said, "we're worried about you having this amount of money." and I said, "so am I", and then they sat and sneered at me losing it hand over fist. Oh I have some nice things. Several MacBooks, 8 replica swords, 3 replica axes, half a dozen leather jackets. Enough craft stuff to equip a small school. Don't know what to do with any of it. It's horrible, just horrible. Several people knew precisely what I was like with money and did nothing. One even saying to my face, "I could help you, but I'm not going to." Destroyed my old age. Been on welfare or just zero income for much of my adult life. No support. No understanding. (Diagnosed a little over 2 years ago.)
ADHD Tax!
What a truly destructive disorder if not managed. Dr. Barkley, any plans on making videos about ADHD and meditation? I am especially curious to know the effects of meditation and the impacts on executive functioning.
Meditation is the the most frustrating thing on the gd planet. You expect me to be able to keep both my body and my brain still at the same time? 😂
I once forget that I was supposed to be meditating, and was looking in the fridge before I realized I was supposed to be doing something else.
It took another few minutes to remember what I was doing, and then I got so utterly furious with myself that I had to go have a cry and a nap.
I went on one of those free 10 day silent meditation retreats as an undiagnosed ADHDer a decade ago and found it painful. I just couldn’t keep on with the meditation, my mind kept wandering and thinking about stuff. Maybe I should have done some short meditation rather than jumping in the deep end with a 10 day silent course where they encouraged you to sit still as long as possible such.
I have adhd diagnosis and Meditation is one of the best thing for adhd, specially to reduce mental fog and gain some mental clarity and understand the emotions (why am I feeling this way?) and to deal with RSD. The psychiatrist who diagnosed me told me that half of adhd treatment should be pills and other half meditation and healthy lifestyle
Try guided meditation it works for me, there are plenty of videos on TH-cam, or Sophrology or journaling your feelings in a diary. Meditation is a personal thing, each individual should find what works best for them instead of following what works for others, for me just sit in silence with blank mind it’s almost impossible but with the guided meditation Is easier. Try something else, I guarantee that meditation help reduce significantly my adhd symptoms.
So true. My financial life has been a catastrophe - even though I have a degree in economics!!! Since taking the meds, I am working again and enjoying it.
Before , I was always i debt, no matter how much I earned. When I suddenly got a lot of money, part of me enjoyed it, but the other part had to face up to the reality that my issue wasn't not having enough money, it was something to do with me, which led to depression and self-hate. Then I started day trading .... and lost lots of money. I became completely obsessed with myself and what was wrong with me. With such a chaotic internal world, it was impossible to make rational investment decisions, as to me, nothing looks at all stable or predictable.
A fellow economist! Cool. Sorry to hear about your financial troubles. I've never had any problems with managing money, just the occasional impulse purchase that I could afford.
Topic request: What relationship can we see between ADHD and dissociation?
Thanks for the info. The two dark colors on the first chart are hard to distinguish at first.
So incredibly depressing, took me forever to learn how to budget despite being taught at a young age and now my problem isn't management it's that there's no money to manage because I can't handle a demanding job. I am failing my future self. I just don't know anymore.
Thank you for this video. Such an important topic. That NO sticker idea is genius. Almost used my credit card yesterday cause funds are tight, then thought of what you said in this video and stopped myself.
DR. B BACK WITH ANOTHER ABSOLUTE BANGER OF A VIDEO 🔥 🔥 🔥
I was diagnosed in my early 60s. I was never an obvious impulse buyer, but I noted over the years that, in spite of making about what I did, my wife managed to save about three times what I did. I was never sure why, but my diagnosis provided a rather big clue. I didn’t do that terribly through my life, though owing to my academic credentials and limited ambition, I certainly never made a lot. In the last couple years I’ve started to sense what the arc of my life might have been had I been single.
I CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH RUSS. This is too much!! xD
Your videos have been really helpful in informing my foster parents of the realities of this disorder. And thats while I'm now 40 and I was diagnosed around age 7 (while I was with them). Thank you for providing such a great deal of clarity that has made a marked difference in my life and others.
Thank you dr B.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🧠 *Introduction to ADHD and Money Problems*
- The video introduces the relationship between ADHD and financial challenges.
- Highlights the seriousness of money problems for individuals with unmanaged ADHD.
- Describes a Milwaukee follow-up study showing the correlation between ADHD and adult money management issues.
01:34 💳 *Specific Financial Challenges Linked to ADHD*
- Discusses the detailed financial challenges faced by individuals with ADHD into adulthood.
- Emphasizes the problems of impulse buying, exceeding credit card limits, and missing payments.
- Points out significant percentages of these individuals having no savings account and a poor credit rating.
03:20 📉 *Economic Impact of ADHD on Individuals*
- Examines the economic repercussions and lost income due to untreated ADHD.
- Highlights lower starting salaries, slower progress in the workplace, and decreased chances of owning a home.
- Mentions projections indicating significant lost income across the working lifespan of individuals with untreated adult ADHD.
06:03 🛠️ *Recommendations for Managing Money with ADHD*
- Offers practical solutions and strategies for individuals with ADHD to manage their finances.
- Suggests diagnosis and adequate treatment for ADHD symptoms, including potential medication and therapy.
- Provides tips like using auto-deposit, setting up autopay, creating budgets, seeking external accountability, and avoiding impulsive purchases.
Made with HARPA AI
38 F - Never being able to save, always spending and do impulse buying (a lot) !
I wasn’t diagnosed yet with ADHD, but after watching most of your videos, now I know that I do.
I find difficult reading, my eyes will read the words in my head but I’ll go somewhere else with my mind, I often have to read again and again the same paragraph as doesn’t stick into me. I could read books that I liked with no issues, I remember finishing an Harry Potter book in one night, maybe I was hyper focused. I always get distracted and it’s hard for me to listen to people for a long period of time and do tasks that I don’t like.
I know it’s off topic, but during a seminar from 9 years ago, you mentioned that ADHD people are bad drivers and have more accidents etc, more speeding tickets. I actually love driving, never had an accident and I respect the limit and the rules. Again, driving is something that I really enjoy and it calms me down.
Anyways, I wanted to thank YOU for posting all these content on ADHD, now I understand myself better, I’ll try to get tested and medicated asap. I have also added you on LinkedIn. I was awake until 4am this morning to watch your seminar. Thank YOU so much for making a difference in this world Dr Barkley🌍! Merry Christmas 🎄
This is really good information. Thanks as always. =]
Thank you. Im 40, just diagnosed. luckily no current dept, but could have saved for a house by now.
Don't get me wrong, I think people should get treated at an individual level as well, if they are suffering. But there is a lot of things wrong with our social structures too.
How to get them to adhere to a budget though? I can be the non-ADHD spouse managing the bills all day but it doesn't work if I also have to become the budget police.
That is work they have to do for themselves, and it's really hard, but you should be able to see us trying.
It must be rough to be the spouse sometimes.
I got £16k in debt at worst due to managing my finances and self employed work so badly with poor organisation, accidental under charging and time blindness. Paid half of that off now but painfully slowly over some years and in order to turn things around I had to heavily cut back my social life plus put dating on pause till I sorted the debt so life in recent years has been less fun and a bit lonely.
Thank you for this great video. I don’t have problem with focusing part of ADHD but the impulsivity part of it with the lack of executive function that has ruined my financial life and dont know how to be financially stable and successful when by brain is not allowing me.😢and tried adhd meds due to side effects i cant take anymore i just need to go the supplements and therapy route .
Financial anxiety has plagued my whole adult life due to ADHD. The fact that I truly don't know how long things should take and always compensated by working unpaid overtime has left me vulnerable to exploitative bosses, like the manager who openly shopped online at work and swanned off by 5pm every day while giving me more and more of her duties.
She was eventually let go, but that didn't cure the health problems and negative self-beliefs I developed from working for an abusive personality for so long.
Bosses either love me or seem to find my ADHD traits practically subhuman, and not being able to know ahead of time has made me stay in bad but "stable" jobs to avoid losing my health insurance.
Imagine how much untapped human potential would be released for the benefit of society if people with ADHD were just given a little more grace and flexibility.
I so wish we had national healthcare regardless of income (low OR high) because a hybrid of something steady for the rent plus exploring more risky things I'm actually GOOD at would be ideal for me.
Good tips, but much easier said than done.
I bet that those with late diagnosed ADHD are even worse. They should recruit people like me to obtain this data 😅
Another study idea would be to compare the situation for households with ADHD mothers vs fathers. I am expected in my household to do the bookkeeping 😬
My husband is not amused by my interests, so he cannot be the helpful sounding board being spoken of. Anytime I verbalize my desires, it’s an invitation to be ridiculed.
Diagnosed in my 40s. My finances... are 'not great'. I've got by, but my position in life is more luck than judgement.
Milwaukee has a lot of minorities, who tend to be poorer, did this study control for poverty?
Boomers wearing flannel joke was enjoyable. Thanks Doc. Accountability from family has been my saviour
Luckily this is the area I do quite well on. Probably part personality part parental education.
«Boomers wearing flannel!!!» 😂you rock !
Money management is not a problem when you make a good money. Problem is how to get energy and motivation to earning more? and not living paycheck to paycheck.
Trust me that is a lie, making more money can lead to lifestyle hikes, there are many people who make six figures and are in debt because of bad financial planning
@@studyaccount69871st world problems. In developing countries(ie middle asia) with six figures, 100k, you can live 10 years doing nothing, and probably still have some spare to buy a flat
Yeah, the money thing can get a bit depressing when you have ADHD, on the plus side i have a massive record collection.
Please go on the diary of a CEO podcast. I’m tired of seeing non-experts spread misinformation about ADHD 😊 you’d be brilliant!
You're my favourite boomer, Dr. Barkley!
How do you help your adhd husband realize how important treatment is. How do i know if he needs therspy in addition to medication?
Video request: executive Function and depression & anxiety
I have went to several psychiatrist, psychologist, each one said I have depression and anxiety and this executive Function disorder is result of the depression and anxiety is this true?
Do stimulants work for depressed adults with executive Function defecits?
💛🙏
This would have been helpful 20 years ago. Unfortunately, most of your advice still would have taken way more discipline than I had at that point in my life. Auto pay was hands down the best thing I've ever done for myself, but it was only possible because I lived with family for a couple years and didn't have to pay rent. That allowed me to put some money away, which gave me the cushion I needed to be able to put my bills on auto pay. I wouldn't have been able to do that otherwise.
Also, Dave Ramsey is toxic, please don't take his advice.
I searched him and saw the controversy, just before I got to the point in the video where it’s mentioned haha.
Why the steer away? Any recommendations?
Outgrows?
I swear that my money evaporates!💀
Can you make videos on CDS
Everything we know about it is in the video playlist here on it. I wish there was more but it’s not being nearly as well investigated as ADHD. Thanks!
So sad I’m underemployed…😢
i fixed my 22 year old ADHD tax in 7 minutes. i cancelled everything. #adhdadvocate #dysgraphiaadvocate
2:36
Okay so i was having a verbal conversation with my parents about my difficulty in budgeting my money and said something like "with my symptom profile and diagnoses it makes sense," and then several hours later I open youtube and this is top in my recommended videos. I s2g google has spyware, wth? A timely video for me, but too timely.
Too much reductionism can be harmful. You can't treat a considerable chunk of population just at an individual level, sometimes it's necessary policies that foster respect and inclusion for these groups of people.
I have rarely disagreed with you so ferociously as when you mentioned Dave Ramsey. #SMH
Dr Russell is a true legend I just wished I know this info 20 years ago.
I'm in my 20s, diagnosed in the past month. Never had consumer debt but I have impulse bought a ton of stuff. Stocks especially. I have a really good job and yet I have less savings than a lot of my peers even some of them even work part time have more saved than me. I really wished that I had seeked help sooner.